Congrats to Madison on tentatively agreeing on their teachers' contract. A small 1% salary raise, but a total package of 3.93% this year and 3.99% next year. Perhaps our school board could learn from one of the top school districts in the country! But that would mean that our board would have to start making decisions based on what is best for kids and not themselves!

rocksolid; Per the the State website -
http://recovery.wisconsin.gov/orrdetail....
Rock Co has / is receiving $36 million & Jvl school district specifically over $10 million in stimulus money - could you direct us as to where this money is going. I would appreciate it.

Correction: I am not much of a golfer but one unique concept is that you call penalties on yourself. In that same spirit, I discovered that one of the figures that I used earlier may be incorrect. I stated that the JEA portion of the WRS increase was "at least $300,000.00". This was based upon figures that I was given that the total increase was more than $400,000.00.

Anyway, I was given another document that indicates that both of those figures may not be accurate and the JEA increase is closer to $240,000.00. Although this is still a lot more than the $100,000.00 that another blogger stated, I will assume that my earlier statement was wrong.

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

badger4life; what happens is the same thing that happens with every other employer that has manditory enrollment into their health plan - basically union employers - the fund itself retains the money. I brought this up e few weeks ago on another post. Your scenario is no different than that of 2 GM's, 1 teacher & 1 GMer, 1 construction worker & 1 teacher etc. The error your attempting to point out is not the districts "fault" but rather that of the union(s) as they are the one's that require enrollment into their health plans.

Responded to rocksolid in private. Any JEA member want to know what we discussed, ask and I'll let you know. I wanted to make a factual point here, that is all.

Can anyone, Bill or Jim, tell me what happens with couples that work in the district in regard to their health insurance? For example, if teachers get a 3% raise and 1.5% is salary and 1.5% goes toward health benefits what happens with couples in the district? Since couples are covered under one plan, where does the other person's (wife or husband) 1.5% go? Does the district keep this? I know there are anywhere from 20-30 couples in the district and it seems like the district is saving a good chunk of money by these couples being under one plan. Shouldn't one of the two get the entire 3% in salary since they are covered under the other's plan?
Thanks for your response

realist: Thank you for admitting your error about the administrators and
additional education. Your continued claim that anything is being
"hidden" is wrong. All records (except some personnel) are open and
available to anyone.

Jim and others: I thought I have addressed many aspects of the insurance questions in the
past but I will try to deal with the claim that money was "removed".

Every year, we work with our consultants to establish a premium estimate
to cover the cost of expected claims. Some years we were short, some
years we were over and some years it came very close to projections. Up
until this past year we enjoyed some significant surpluses in the previous
few years. (Please see my comments posted in previous blog articles about
the rational of being self insured versus using a insurance company such
as WEAC etc.)

Surpluses or shortages in the yearly insurance budget flow into our fund
balance (fund 10). Last year the board decided that it would be wise to
designate a portion of our fund balance to be held in an "insurance"
reserve in the event we had a high run on claims. My memory tells me that
it was about 2.4 million but I could be wrong. Most consultants recommend
a reserve fund of about 20% of premium which would equal about 3.6
million. That is the number that I based my HRA proposal on.

Anyway, this past year we ran over budget (not by a lot) and will use the
reserve to cover the shortage. The consultants will use this information
to help establish premium levels for next year, which is likely to result
in a small increase.

The bottom line is that the portion of our fund balance that is reserved
for insurance claims is still there. Nothing was removed. The amount in
that reserve will fluctuate each year as our claims versus premiums paid
will dictate.

I never said that our insurance reserve was $400,000.00 (or any amount for
that matter) in the red. All we said was that for this past year we had
more claims paid than premiums received, which will reduce our insurance
reserve that is part of the fund balance.

Please explain what you believe to be dishonest and what you mean by
saying that "3 million was removed from the insurance fund"?

I truly do not understand your statement(s).

Very Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

Mr E. Persistence - perhaps, but "There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it" (William James) .
Poor etiquette (the use of all caps) - no. Your message is getting lost because you post in a nearly unreadable way. Would you accept a paper from a student with such formatting?

Those are some good points, tiredofhearingit, and I appreciate the reasonable questions and discourse. I'll do my best.....

---

The "league minimum" idea has some merit - it would in essence, establish a statewide teacher contract for salary. Seems like a good idea on the surface, but there would be a few problems. First - Wisconsin is a "Local Control" state. Statewide contracts take away that feature which many (not just WEAC, but WASB and more) would probably object to. It also does not take into account the differences in cost of living across districts. Clearly $200,000 buys vastly different houses in Janesville, Phillips, and Waukesha. Yes, some teachers are lured by higher salaries in other places with higher cost of living and really net very little - but that is a consequence of their own lack of wisdom. Nonetheless, I'd say you are correct in saying that there is a "keeping up with the Jones'" issue here, but that is hardly unique to education. My employer has done regular surveys of comparable pay in my profession and I have received the occasional pay increase to cover any inequalities.

----

I'm not sure how much the JEA is involved in attempting to retain quality teachers that are leaving for other districts. I would think it would be in their own best interest to at least make some attempt to keep folks around, or at minimum have exit interviews to pinpoint causes of employee turnover (as they do where I work). If they aren't doing these things, then shame on them.
Anyone out there with experience on that issue? Can you comment?

Rocky; so basically what your saying is we have "keep up with the Jones" syndrom in Jvl. "We HAVE to give raises or they'll go somewhere else" - IF this were the real reason & rather not just a ploy to play labor against labor (district vs. district) wouldnt the WEAC demand that ALL districts have a "league minimum" for new(er) teachers - this would end this scenario in your reasoning - would it not? Even without a "league minimum" why then is the "leadership" of the teachers union not actively involved in recruiting & retaining these young minds that dont see the value in todays wages vs. the long term benefits of staying with the JSD? Could it be they are part of the problem & caught up in the mindset that "they get this - we should get that" - the way the system is now, this will go on FOREVER between districts - no matter how much we pay - next year xxxville will use jvl as the example of why they NEED to a raise and so on......
***

PERSISTENCE! I always urged my WASHINGTON SEMINAR students to be PERSISTENT! I reminded them of CALVIN COOLIEDGE's staement, “Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." TRUE - SO TRUE!

That's why the quote, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" is so relevant, challenging and TRUE!

As a political scientist, I KNOW that "PERSISTENCE" is the KEY to political success! Check out the history of major changes in public policy.

NOW, I wonder whether readers would consider the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's "Watchdog" feature?! Right now, they have been "fixated" (some would say) with continuing reports, "Cashing In On Kids" with today's report, "Funding at 34 day care operations cut." (URL: http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdo...).

I must confess that I have sent e-mail to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel several times COMMENDING them for their "Watchdog" feature with added COMPLIMENTS on this very, very significant "Cashing In On Kids" series! IF they did NOT keep the spotlight on this issue, it is clear that Milwaukee County and our State of WI would NOT have STOPPED the payments! Yes, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty!" I bank on newspapers and other media to help me maintain that "eternal vigilance." Don't you?

NOW, is this appropriate continuing/persistent attention to a public policy issue?

WHY is it NOT - according to several WE THE PEOPLE readers - an appropriate continuing/persistent to keep the discussion re. FREEZE of K-12 public educator compensation on this blog?

NOTE: Reports out of Dane County tell us that Dane County unions agreed to 5% PAY CUT - not freeze, but CUT - for 2009-10 and that current negotiations are for another 5% PAY CUT - not freeze, but CUT - for 2010-11. So, why are we NOT negotiating a PAY CUT rather than "just" a FREEZE?!

So it goes... let me know your thoughts... I am reading...

Mr. E.

I REALLY hope the GAZETTE isn't PAYING this MAN for HIS opinions. HIS fixation ON pay FREEZING is GETTING annoying, AND so IS his problem WITH his CAPS lock ON his COMPUTER.

John, some might think you are giving both sides of the discussion equal weight, while others might get the impression YOU ARE A BIG BUTT KISSER especially with the big wet one you planted on Bill Sodemann. The stance you take on this topic could be construed as fair and balanced by some, while others may think YOU RANT LIKE A BRAYING JACKASS. And finally, You might think of it as opinion making, but there are others out here in the community who might think YOU ARE A MUCK RAKER ANTAGONIZING YOUR FORMER CO-WORKERS FROM YOUR SELF APPOINTED BULLY PULPIT. Just a few thoughts I wish to share with you.

"FREEZE IN THE FORECAST" <----Areas of DENSE FOG!

Mr. Sodeman,
On my lane movement for credits you are absolutely correct, but I was referring to the board's request to freeze us this year on our step and why I believe they allowed the lane movement, teachers paid for it they deserve it this year.
****
On the Stan Milam show and other places you have repeatedly said that the insurance fund is $400,000 short at the end of the year. While this is factual, I leave it to the public to decide if it is honest when you, me, the board, Stan Milam and others met with the districts insurance adjusters M3, (who had NO idea why we are continually millions over in insurance funds) and within a short time the board removed $3 million dollars from the insurance fund PRIOR to the 08-09 school year. Is it honest to claim the account is $400,000 short when the only reason is because $3 million was removed from the fund. That is for each individual to decide.
****
BTW teachers still only used 94% of their alloted amount again supporting other members of the health fund. So I still don't know where this huge increase in funds needs to come from that you say taxpayers will have to pay. Seems to be that you have millions you could use before going to taxpayers.
****
Yes, lets say $300,000 for WRS that is still only 0.3% of a $100 million budget. You would also save much more than that if you paid down your WRS debt that charges a large interest rate. Most districts have taken a bond at lower interest to pay that amount saving a large amount on interest. That would be a good investigation for Mr. E if he truly wants to save taxpayers money.

Nice job John. You now have the JEA and a Board member trading barbs on your blog. Do you really think you can influence these negotiations from your bully pulpit? If this contract goes to arbitration, be sure to stand up and take some credit - especially if the arbitrator sides with the teachers for something other than a zero.

100 applicants for teacher positions and 1,200 for Buffalo Wild Wings!

If teachers were really underpaid, there wouldn't be 100 applications for each job. Please.

Teachers are underpaid! Thats why we have K-4, it is cheaper to send our kids to school than to daycare. You voted for it now accept the facts.

Rocksolid,
One more thing, why didn't you address the 3 million dollars that was taken out of the insurance fund and put in the general fund in july as fbcoach66 stated?

Tiredofhearingit,
I think rocky did a good job of explaining the rationale behing paying younger teachers better. If you could get the same job at another company for better pay and benefits would you not leave as well?
Rocksolid, still waiting for you to tell how much JSD pays to educate their administrators. Surely you didn't have the numbers at your fingertips yesterday when I asked you but maybe you should inquire. Not just this year but in the past couple years. I did some checking and you were correct. The pay of administrators doesn't raise upon completion of a doctorate but it does give them a higher degree for free which they can capitalize on by having the education to aquire a higher paying job. My problem is that you are ok paying for admin degrees who make around 100g and can afford credits. Sounds like a pretty good way to save "A 100 grand here and a 300 grand there"
As for the "open books", as fbcoach66 said if I didn't know 3 mil was taken out of the insurance fund and put into the General fund I would not have any idea of how to look for that information. But if a contract went to a QEO a lawyer would look all of that information over and it would be exposed as is.
Can you also state the year "Most settlements have been above 3.8% and some of them substantially so". Specifically the "substantially so" part.
thanks

Where was Mr. E when the Economy was booming. Did he suggest that teachers get substantial raises? I think not. It has to work both ways. If employees are to suck it up during tough times, then they ought to enjoy substantial raises during good times. I am concerned the education as a profession will not be able to attract highly skilled workers without much higher salaries.

"All teachers are underpaid."
Then how do we pay them? Jack everyone's property taxes sky high? The money has to come from somewhere. Where?
I'm all for teachers making a decent wage - I wouldn't want their job - but under the current funding system, how is that accomplished without being taxed out of our homes?
Please respond with something more constructive than "JSD is sitting on millions." That doesn't solve the problems every other district in the state is having.

Tiredofhearingit - I think someone is misstating the argument. Many quality, experienced teachers stay in Janesville, because it would be too expensive for other districts to hire them. What we are losing are the talented young teachers who are still "cheap" enough for other districts to lure away. We don't feel the impact of that just yet, but as the older teachers continue to retire and there are fewer and fewer experienced staff to fill those shoes, we will see the short-term thinking that has created this problem.

Mr. Reif: You did say that you did not have the data "at your fingertips" when you estimated that the total increase in the WRS contribution will be about $100,000.00, so I will give you a pass.

The actual increase will be more than $400,000.00, which includes all employees (JEA, Admin. & Others). Since JEA is the largest group, their share is at least $300,000.00.

As the modified old saying goes, "A 100 grand here and a 300 grand there - pretty soon were talking real money!"

Thought you should know.

Bill Sodemann

All teachers are underpaid. If the rate of job loss keeps up in Janesville the teachers can get a raise because you will not need as many teachers , as the cities population decreases from families moving out of the area to find jobs.

whoanellie; I dont know your daughter & am Not commenting on her ability. With that being said,your entire post completely discredits what the teachers union has been claiming for years. Are you implying we CAN get good teachers for the current pay rates? All we keep hearing from the teachers union is all the experienced & good teachers are leaving for higher pay in other districts. Whats realist think of this arguement?

tedmelwis: My daughter is a teacher and a GOOD one but she can't get a job in janesville! She has only one year experience so they won't even read here resume! She has to go somewhere else to get a job, that is janesvilles loss. When they don't even look at someone's good record because they only have a year of experience that is just dumb!!! check it out and see if she' could do it, don't just think that if you have more experience you'll be better, it's not always true.She says she'd like to go back to her college and demand her money back for the years she paid and now can't get a job in her field. don't go to school to become a teacher unless you want to move away from here.

badger4life: FYI- I am not a retail cellular store. My business is that of installing and servicing telephone systems for other businesses.

That being said, we have not had a price increase of our products in years. In fact, prices have dropped.

realist: I have no idea of what you are referring to when you talk about the JSD having to "open its books". Whether or not there is or was a QEO in place, all records are open to you or to anyone else.

Mr. Reif: I have always been open and honest about all matters. If you are implying otherwise, let me know and I will respond accordingly. I have merely corrected some of the erroneous statements that have been made.

If I have made any factual errors, I will be glad to correct them and admit them. It would be nice if others did the same. While we all may have differing opinions, I am one who believes that truth still exists and it is worth persuing.

It is true that JSD covers most of the cost for further education of it's administrators. Administrators are NOT given increases based upon that education however.

It should also be noted that the increase of $1250.00 that Mr. Reif earns for spending $1300.00 for additional education is paid every year. If you are about to retire, then the payback is minimal. If you have 20 more years before retirement, then that $1300.00 pays back $25,000.00 according to Mr. Reif's own figures.

When others acknowledge and correct their mis-statements I will be glad to continue and address other questions.

Sincerely,

Bill Sodemann

We need the best teachers to give our kids the optimum chance to succeed, and to attract businesses to this area. Unfortunately, we have been losing teachers to other school districts and careers for years. As the average age of local experience for Janesville teachers continues to decline, Mr. Eyster and all of us should ask -- will this type of anti-education rant attract the best teachers to the Janesville school district?

Too bad Tommy and the Republicans passed the QEO.

City, state, and federal workers are the last bastion of excess and waste. Go to usajobs and check out the pay levels of secretaries. In some cases, they make more than 40,000 a year for minor administrative duties not to mention a stock pile of benefits most people could only dream about. That would be fine, but at the same time the government preaches to automakers about access and to the UAW about cuts. It’s mind numbingly hypocritical. There is very little difference for state or city workers. That said I believe teachers deserve to be well compensated, though not entitled. The question then becomes reasonable expectations and fair negotiating in an obviously uncertain time. Is it possible to shelf a contract for a year and keep the current one; thus allowing the ability to reopen the contract should local and state revenues begin to rebound? The problem becomes budgetary issues. If budgets aren’t met and taxes increase something has to give. The exodus from the region will continue to accelerate as tax rates rise at the same time job losses mount. As schools lose students they will also be forces to loose faculty. It’s a delicate balance that I don’t believe is well thought out from either side of the argument. I think most people would agree that investing in our children’s education is vital, which includes both brick and mortar and staffing. However, the first lesson we can teach our children is good economics.

Mr. E., perhaps we could have the city put freezes on the cost of living as well so that we can continue to pay our bills. Freeze the cost of our water bills, tell energy companies they need to freeze our costs/bills, and maybe we can get cell phone companies like "Phones Plus" to put a freeze on their prices! If you haven't noticed, the price of living continues to go up and the JEA members' salaries have not kept up. Did our police and fire departments get a raise recently?

Mr. Sodeman,
Yes your proposal allows a teacher to take a raise that they paid for by taking classes so it cost me personally $1300 to get a roughly $1250 raise (it would have cost an adminstrator nothing), but I am curious about this health care cost increase you are predicting.
**
You know that the board took $3 MILLION dollars out of teachers health care in July of '08 before the last school year. You now claim a $400,000 shortfall. Teachers still only used 94% of their health care budget. So, what happened to that $2.6 million overage, why not use it for this projected cost increase? And how is it HONESTLY a $400,000 shortfall?
**
You signed a Standard for Professional Behavior that says: "I will be honest in my dealings with JSD employees." (or something close). Is not telling people about the $3 million the board took out in July honest? Only you can decide.
**
According to data that I don't have at my finger tips, the WRS cost increase will be roughly $100,000 which is 0.1% of the yearly budget, certainly not a large amount.
**
Those are the whole facts as I PERSONALLY (not speaking for anyone but me) see them.
Jim Reif

Are you SERIOUS? Again? What is it, a complete unwillingness to deal with reality? AND still with the CAPS LOCK? Once more for all the community bloggers out there who fail to understand anything about netiquette and know even less about school finance or the bargaining laws of this state...
If the Janesville school board voted 9-0 to freeze the teachers pay, the JEA would reject the offer and the taxpayers of Janesville would pay the District's legal counsel about $25,000 to take Mr. E's losing "freeze" offer to interest arbitration which would result in the arbitrator selecting the JEA's final offer.
By the way, when the arbitrator looks at the comparables, there is a pretty good chance he or she won't consider Mercury Marine or GM - mainly because the only comparables that will matter are actual public school districts.
And Mr. E - formerly of the AP classroom (boggles the mind) the Stevens Point administrators (like all K-12 administrators) are not represented by a union - there is no correlation between getting administration to accept a freeze and trying to force one on teachers - ever heard of a mandatory subject of bargaining?

Another thing Bill,
Maybe you could enlighten the taxpayers and tell them how much a year the JSD is paying for administrators Doctoral degrees. Please also add in the pay raise they get after they complete it.
Thanks

Good comparison Mr.E,
Comparing a failing business to a school district with more in savings than almost any other district in the state. In previous negotiations the district claimed they needed to save this money for emergency situations. What do you qualify as an emergency situation?
Also I still never heard you say anything about reducing the amount of retirement you are sucking off as a retired teacher.
Also Rocksolid,
Why don't you explain to the taxpayers why the Qeo was never implemented here in Janesville? Maybe because then the school district would have had to open their books to see how much money they are squandering. The JSD would never let it get that far.

Mr. E
My question is do you actually get paid to write the same article over and over week in and week out? If so, Gazette are you hiring?

Mr. E. Please do consider proper "nettiquette" when blogging: The use of capital letters in posts is the equivalent of yelling at folks. I realize that you are trying to add emphasis to what you are writing, but you are also undermining yourself in this manner. No offense, but using caps in this manner is the equivalent of having a loud discussion with a cloud above you. It doesn't change the clouds' outlook, and casual observers will not take the discussion seriously. I may disagree with you, but I know you are more rational and intelligent than this. Thanks,

APOLOGY & GRATITUDE to "rocksolid" - Janesville School Board Commissioner Bill Sodemann - for clarifying the situation in SD-Janesville! I owe an APOLOGY to Bill and his colleagues for NOT having kept aware of developments. I confess. THANKS, BILL!

NOW that we have OFFICIAL INFORMATION re. action of SD-Janesville, we need to COMMEND & THANK THEM! You can send a THANK YOU e-mail to ALL the Board members or individual members using the District's website listing of Board members with e-mail addresses: http://www.janesville.k12.wi.us/BoardofE....

I proceed to ask the Milton School Board, "Where is the FREEZE in your budgeting and negotiating?" The BOARD needs to take assertive action to FREEZE ALL ADMINISTRATIVE compensation rather than wait around so that next year they can tell me what they told me last month at the ANNUAL MEETING, "We just followed the precedent. We give administrators the same compensation increase as we agree to give MEA members." Again, I ARGUE that that PRECENDENT is NOT appropriate in this economic crisis.

Yes, again and again I have railed about TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION as exemplified by the technical colleges in WI! The boards are TOTALLY WITHOUT ELECTORATE (voter) accountability! WHY ELSE would you find that the technical colleges have INCREASED PROPERTY TAXES AT GREATER PER CENTAGES since the State Revenue Cap was imposed on K-12 local school districts than K-12 districts? Yes, I agree that technical college boards MUST be brought under ELECTORAL review: either DIRECT ELECTION by WE THE PEOPLE - residents of each technical college district - OR BUDGET CONTROL by our WI STATE LEGISLATURE as is the UW system. Where's the OUTCRY about this TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION among WE THE PEOPLE?

Here we go... John/Mr. E.

Female Reporter (played by Marianne Stone): “Are you a Mod or a Rocker?”

Ringo Starr (played by himself, of course!): “Um, no. I’m a Mocker.”—A Hard Day’s Night (1964).

That's not irony, it's mockery.

Well said, Badgerlvr. I appreciate your ironic use of the caps lock key, too. Editors of the Janesville Gazette: Do you not edit op-ed pieces for content and style?

Oops! I meant to type that Beloit city workers have voted overwhelmingly to not take a scheduled pay increase. In other words, they are freezing their own wages.

Count your blessings, everyone. Beloit city workers are taking a cut in pay with their new contract.

*yawn* - more of the same drivel from Mr. E. Gazette - time to pull the plug if there are no fresh ideas coming from this source.

The BTC board doesn't have to answer to the taxpayers.

That system is called taxation without representation.

Not good.

I see no reason why the teacher's salaries should be frozen. Nice to see the BTC administration has a backbone and gave their employees a raise.

John did you happen to notice the BTC staff pay hike. No Freeze there, and Rocksolid if you are so concerned about saving taxpayers money, how about not paying for administrators Doctorate degrees on the taxpayers dime.

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/sep...

Mr.E. is once again going on about freezing salaries. This unhealthy fixation on a single subject in a blog is a little disturbing. Couldn't you at least try a fresh set of arguments? Yes Mercury extorted concessions from their workers, who will no doubt be out of work in 5 years or less due to outsourcing to Mexico or China, but try something fresh big guy. Your material is getting repetitive.

What is "substantially so"? An 8% increase in salary alone? 15%? Or are we talking 1 or 1.5% higher with a total package? Anything under 3-5% I wouldn't call "substantial" compared to the raises (pure salary) that I made at various times in the past 15 years.

FYI:

We (The Janesville School Board) did freeze all of the administration salaries and the proposal that was made to JEA is somewhat of a "freeze" in the first year (although teachers would still get increases due to "lane movement", and the taxpayers would still pay more to cover the increases in their health care plan and for increased contributions to the WRS (retirement system)).

Also the comment made that teachers have been "frozen for the past 15 years at 3.8% because of the QEO" is NOT TRUE. Most settlements have been above 3.8% and some of them substantially so. The QEO has NEVER been implemented here in Janesville.

I had to set the record straight.

Sincerely,

Bill Sodemann

As Welch said about another Wisconsinite long ago, "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

Do you REALLY believe that public school teachers are going to embrace your FREEZE idea? With rising tuition costs along with reduced income, you MUST BE living in LA LA LAND John. I'm SURPRISED and DISAPPOINTED that YOU have turned on your colleagues like you have. Are you trying to set yourself up for a run at a POLITICAL POSITION with the G.O.P.? I will admit that you are a better candidate than RUSH LIMBAUGH, but NOT BY MUCH.

Maybe, it's due to the fact that these other entities you refer to experienced near double digital compensation packages for the past 15 years. Where as, public school teachers have had their compensation packages 'frozen' at 3.8 thanks to QEO. Can't have it both ways John.

I never thought there was a person more evil, stuck up, or plain dumb than George Bush. We get you have an opinion. Fine. Stop ranting about it endlessly, especially in all caps!