Taking aim at gun control
Tragedy in yet another small town in America is now forever etched in our memory banks. Like many of you, I watched much of the seemingly nonstop TV coverage of the events and investigation after a young man on Friday killed his mother with her own rifle and then drove to an elementary school, where he used her guns to slaughter 20 children and six staff members before taking his own life when police closed in.
Then I thought: What would Uncle Bob do? Bob was the oldest of five brothers raised on the Peck family farm just outside the Dane County village of Marshall. My dad was the youngest.
Dad has little use for guns. I talked to him by phone last night. Bob died years ago, but I asked Dad what Bob might think or suggest if he were alive today.
“I don’t know,” Dad said.
“I think I do,” I told Dad.
I wrote about Uncle Bob in a previous blog. He was an early advocate of gun rights. He once served as Marshall’s marshal, the village’s lone law enforcer.
I have two feature stories about Uncle Bob. The Star Countryman of Sun Prairie pictured Bob, with both hands on his pistol, pointing toward readers, in 1987.
A large quote in the story reads: “I wrote once to the head of the CrimeStoppers thing in Madison, and I said to the gentleman, ‘He who leaves home with malice of forethought should understand that his civil rights went down the drain with his last bowel movement.’”
In 1986, Rob Zaleski of The Capital Times wrote a column headlined, “Like Dirty Harry, Peck’s not kidding.”
Zaleski “made his day” when he asked Bob what would happen if someone were stupid enough to try breaking into Bob’s Sun Prairie home. Bob explained that his male poodle slept near the door.
“The moment he starts raising the roof, I’d be standing back there, in the hallway. And before any intruder got his foot inside that door … I’d blow his … head off.”
Bob grew up during the Great Depression. He admitted he was a radical and a fan of Charles Bronson and Clint Eastwood. He rejected the notion, however, that he had no regard for human life.
“I’ve got a lot of regard for human life—the victim’s,” he told Zaleski. “Because if I was to walk into an alley and happened to see a man with his hands on a lady’s throat … that man would be in very grave danger of not waking up tomorrow morning.”
I think Bob would agree with Bill Bennett, former U.S. education secretary, who suggested over the weekend that it might be time to arm school personnel.
“I’m not so sure I wouldn’t want one person in a school armed, ready for this kind of thing,” said Bennett, who served under former President Reagan. “The principal lunged at this guy. The school psychologist lunged at the guy. It has to be someone who’s trained, responsible. But, my God, if you can prevent this kind of thing, I think you ought to.”
More trigger locks and inpenatrable gun cases under lock and key might stop the next would-be killer. But would more control of assault weapons stop the carnage? With so many such weapons in circulation these days, isn’t that sort of like shutting the barn door after the cows have escaped?
Obviously, locking doors and providing video surveillance before you let anyone into a school won’t stop an armed killer. The guy in Newtown reportedly shot his way through a window. What, should we put enough bars on all school windows and doors that no gunman can crawl in? Of course not.
Sure, it’s unimaginable that a killer starts shooting his way into a school. Many who have survived these rampages, from those in schools to theaters to temples, agree that the whole scene is surreal and that you can’t believe it’s happening until it’s too late.
Yet just maybe, my Uncle Bob would reason, these mass murderers, armed to the teeth, would think twice before cowardly entering a school building where they think they can gun down as many innocents as time will allow if they thought there was a chance someone inside might quickly turn a gun on them.
Greg Peck can be reached at (608) 755-8278 or gpeck@gazettextra.com. Or follow him on Twitter or Facebook
Dec 21, 2012 at 9:37 p.m.
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I agree that with so many military style assault weapons in circulation these days, trying to contain it now, is like shutting the barn door after the cows have escaped. I believe it is my right to bear arms, however I am not such a bad shot that I need an assault rifle with 100 rounds to kill a deer.
Dec 19, 2012 at 11:41 a.m.
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I was completely unaware of this event that took place in Athens, TN in 1946. I did not know an armed revolt by WWII veterans ever took place during our lifetime. A very sobering video to say the least.
Now the second amendment is a little clearer. Be sure to see the actual photos at the end showing the plaques describing the event.
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People with guns are citizens those without weapons are slaves.
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Here is the 14 minute video
http://voxvocispublicus.homestead.com/Ba...
Dec 19, 2012 at 10:30 a.m.
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Greg, have you asked Paul Ryan about his views on this? He should have some very specific views on this as he:
- Is our local US Representative
- Has children of the same age that were victims of this school shooting.
- Is an avid sportsman and hunter
- Has taken campaign money from the NRA
- In the very recent past wanted to be only a heartbeat away from the presidency and in either role would be attending these memorial services. What would his message/solution be to the mothers and fathers about how to protect their children?
- Does he think it is a good idea to arm teachers with at least the fire-power of these assault style weapons so they can have a chance of protecting the children from mentally disturbed people exploiting the policies of the NRA?
- Does he want to increase funding for armed guards at schools? For enhancing security upgrades to school buildings?
- Does he think it is appropriate for a 6-year old to give up his right to a secure school so we do not infringe on the rights of paranoid gun owners to have whatever loaded firepower (with shell in the chamber) they want sitting in their house unsecured?
- As our representative and a strong, national leader in the Republican Party, shouldn’t he be out front on this security issue? Where is he?
Dec 19, 2012 at 10:01 a.m.
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There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.
Dec 19, 2012 at 9:49 a.m.
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I believe wislady just gave the neo-con not so secret form of leadership......'nuttin I can do bout it"
Dec 19, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
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Parents, we need to place the mantel of shame on ourselves. The blood on our colored T.V.s flows red. Censor what we allow our Children to watch. Protest to sponsors. They listen! AND throw away those violent video games!
Dec 19, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
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No law or ban will stop people who are EVIL, or mentally ill, from committing crimes.
Dec 19, 2012 at 1:31 a.m.
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"Banning any guns will be a repeat of prohibition in the 30's. There will be a huge market for them and a huge underground movement....and the outlaws and gangsters will run it making millions. Crime will not change, may even get worse."
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That statement is DEAD ON. Some will site how gun bans have indeed worked in other countries. However; the US is a GUN CULTURE society. There is no getting around that. You try and take away an Americans beer, gun, sex, or gambling, and there is simply going to be huge revolt. Our whole roots are based upon revolt against authority. Prohibition is something MANY Americans need to study. It simply showed without a doubt that banning something that is part of the culture only makes the problem worse, as organized crime takes over. Has the average lefty even been outside their bubble environment?? Just go to any hick town USA, and you can find a gun show, where all sorts of shady characters will gladly sell you the illegal weapon of your choice for cash on hand.
Dec 19, 2012 at 12:45 a.m.
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The fact that the guns can so easily fall into the wrong hands is an even stronger argument for gun control. The kinds of weapons used Friday don't need to be in society. If they were not legal, Adam Lanza's mom would not have had them and Adam Lanza would not have gotten his hands on them. And I'm sorry, but if you think your AR15 is just fine and dandy as a hunting rifle, you're on the wrong side of this. ... Now is very much the time to be talking about this. According to the gun lobby, there is no time ever to be talking about it anyway.
Dec 19, 2012 at 12:42 a.m.
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Regardless of Adam Lanza's mental state, Friday would not have happened if those rapid-fire guns were not legally available.
And... I am a concealed carry advocate.
Dec 18, 2012 at 9:11 p.m.
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Must every tragic mass shooting bring out the shrill ignorance of "gun control" advocates?
The key fallacy of so-called gun control laws is that such laws do not in fact control guns. They simply disarm law-abiding citizens, while people bent on violence find firearms readily available.
If gun control zealots had any respect for facts, they would have discovered this long ago, because there have been too many factual studies over the years to leave any serious doubt about gun control laws being not merely futile but counterproductive.
Guns are not the problem. People are the problem-- including people who are determined to push gun control laws, either in ignorance of the facts or in defiance of the facts.
There is innocent ignorance and there is invincible, dogmatic and self-righteous ignorance. Every tragic mass shooting seems to bring out examples of both among gun control advocates.
Places and times with the strongest gun control laws have often been places and times with high murder rates. Washington, D.C., is a classic example, but just one among many.
When it comes to the rate of gun ownership, that is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but the murder rate is higher in urban areas. The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than among blacks, but the murder rate is higher among blacks. For the country as a whole, hand gun ownership doubled in the late 20th century, while the murder rate went down.
Dec 18, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
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Once again we have Mouse here to post ramblings that make little to no sense at all. Mouse, it's not a left or right issue here, it's a mental health issue, something I've long thought may be the issue you share with others that try to make connections with the right on this.
Dec 18, 2012 at 5:30 p.m.
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Banning any guns will be a repeat of prohibition in the 30's. There will be a huge market for them and a huge underground movement....and the outlaws and gangsters will run it making millions. Crime will not change, may even get worse.
Dec 18, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
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Anyone see the story about the off duty officer in San Antonio that stopped a mass shooting at a theater with his own gun? Or how about the church in colorado a few years back where a gunman entered but was met with a couple bullets in his direction that stopped him from going into the populate area of the church and opening up killing dozens of people.
Honestly gun free zones should also come with adhesive bullseyes to place on the people entering without guns. Am I saying everyone should have a gun, absolutely not but a trained person in places like schools with a concealed weapon isn't a bad idea, we have them on airplanes. Both of my parents work in public schools I would really hate to think they would get killed by a guy that announced to the building he was coming to kill by shooting through the windows and nobody was there to greet him with their own firearms. There are many many reasons these things happen, access to guns is only one, I am very happy to see mental illness in regards to these events FINALLY being brought up, it is about damn time, as is armed security in places like schools.
Dec 18, 2012 at 3:34 p.m.
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docO:
You failed to mention the even bigger mass murder, in Oklahoma city. Which killed far more people (and I believe more children to) all by yet another deranged individual using ZERO guns, but instead fertilizer, kerosene, and a Ryder truck. The lefties live in a dream world. There is pure evil in this world, that legislation simply will not ever stop. These people are breaking countless laws all ready when they do these acts, and obtain the implements of their destruction. Passing more legislation is simply a feel good solution. An assault riffle ban was passed in 1994. Worked out great didn't it? Really stopped those two kids from Columbine from getting a hold of the banned assault riffles they used.
Dec 18, 2012 at 3:22 p.m.
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I don't think the left has really ever got this issue. The mere TALK of a ban has made AR15 sales EXPLODE the past 3 days. Check out any on-line Gander Mountain type site. They literally all sold out when Obama opened his mouth. There mere TALK of a ban is seriously going to put more of these into circulation then ever. Once congress finally does ban them... And it takes MONTHS if not years for congress to pass and implement ANYTHING, every nut job out there will have their hands on one. While every profiteer will have a stock pile of them, to sell on the black market. That is the REALITY of the situation.
Dec 18, 2012 at 1:50 p.m.
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If guns were banned maybe OJ Simpsons ex-wife and her boyfriend would still be alive today!
If you believe that making guns illegal would end these sad types of scenarios from happening, maybe we should make Heroin, Cocaine, and other street drugs illegal to, wouldn't that make them go away? Oh wait, they already are illegal, and OJ's ex and her boyfriend weren't killed with a gun. Mental health was the reason for Fridays tragedy not guns!
Dec 18, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.
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I found this on the net. "If a madman wants to kill innocent people he will find a way. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer. 9-11 terrorists used box cutters and planes. The Nazis used cyanide gas..... Taking guns from innocent people will not protect innocent people. The problem is not guns. It's a Godless society".
Dec 18, 2012 at 12:49 p.m.
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Well Greg, not to let the truth get in the way of a good argument or anything, but CT does, in fact, have an Assault Weapon Ban in place. FYI, they also have laws in place against murdering your mother and stealing her guns. You folks can wrap yourselves up in as many crepe paper gun laws as you want, but they aren't much protection once you step out into the cold reality of everyday life. There are sick, twisted and evil people on the street every minute of every day and for the most part, other than having these people locked away somewhere, there's nothing you or anyone else is going to do to prevent them from doing harm to others if they put their minds to it. It's a scary thought, but it's reality, and until people are ready to wake up and pull their heads out of the sand and face this, nothing will change.
Dec 18, 2012 at 9:45 a.m.
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Teachers don’t need gun training, they need to have a can of wasp spray on their desk. The spray travels 15-20 feet and one shot into a perp’s eye would allow enough time to subdue him.
Dec 18, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
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Cant we all just get along ?... Guess not. Clear on the left ? Clear on the right ? Commence firing !
Dec 18, 2012 at 9:17 a.m.
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You don't need an assault weapon. You really really really don't.
You're going to defend yourself against a government that has nuclear weapons, stealth bombers, drones, SEALs and the United States fa-chrissakes Marine Corps with your piddly-ass AR-15? Good luck with that; send me a note from the front.
Grow up.
You don't need it. You want it. End of file.
Dec 18, 2012 at 6:19 a.m.
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Shopierehuh - Im talking about rifles... its a medium caliber, im not talking mounted guns. We dont really have a problem with people having turrets on their vehicles yet. Thats good though..lol.
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Assault rifle per wiki - "It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle".
Dec 18, 2012 at 3:40 a.m.
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Sigma40 - I know of 4 people at work in my department alone who have concealed carry permits, but our employer doesn't allow guns in the workplace. If a psycho "ex" (employee or spouse) shows up, we will be leading the charge - to the emergency exits.
Wisconsin didn't have a concealed carry law when we started work at our current employer, but you can bet the firearms position of employers will be one criteria used by a lot of people when job-hunting from now on.
fordfan - read what film critic Roger Ebert said about the effect of violent movies vs the press after the Columbine shooting:
http://boingboing.net/2012/12/15/roger-e...
Greg, these shootings will continue until one of two things happen:
1. people with a concealed carry weapon are allowed to intervene. That means No Gun Zones need to become Some Gun Zones - either inexpensively by changing the law and allowing permit-holders to carry in those areas, or creating an extra permit class which involves extensive extra training and certification for teachers and others who need special permission above a ccw permit to be armed.
or
2. The press and media stop lavishing non-stop ratings-driven attention on the shooters. The Morgan Freeman hoax statement says it pretty well:
"You want to know why? This may sound cynical, but here's why. It's because of the way the media reports on it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."
Dec 18, 2012 at 3:01 a.m.
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The reality is that you really can't stop evil in this world. You can pass all the feel good laws you want, but the act of a purely deranged evil person is nearly impossible to stop once they have made up their mind to go on a mass killing spree. These horrific acts are never just some spur of the moment crime of passion. These sicko's plan these things out FAR in advance. No gun law is going to stop a madman from still obtaining their killing weapon of choice, banned or not, when they have months or even years to obtain it. Remember Columbine where the two culprits had planned it out for months right in their parents home (real great parents there). While they practiced the whole shooting rampage scenario at mock ranges in nearby woods. I think almost everyone out there has come across the potential 'ticking time bomb' of a person. The only real way to stop these things is to notice the warning signs in advance. Once a psychopath puts their sick plan into motion, they are all ready breaking COUNTLESS laws of society, and gun laws all ready on the books. No additional feel good law is going to stop them. One can only hope that these potential time bombs are defused by astute people in society, before they go off, or that someone guns them down once they put their plan is set into motion.
Dec 17, 2012 at 11:14 p.m.
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When will you all figure it out? Gun control has almost nothing to do with guns, and a lot about control. Fridays horrific incident wasn't due to lack of gun laws, it happened due to budget cuts across the nation on mental health facilities, the lack of care we give in this country because the Government sees fit to spend that money on other things, things they feel are more important. Look at how much the Government spent on the trials of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens alone last year, that money could have run several mental facilities across our nation, and what did they accomplish in just those two examples? Not a damn thing.
Just for the love of God, don't act like this is a gun problem.
Dec 17, 2012 at 10:30 p.m.
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Sigma40, actually Aks are small calibre, small arms. Usually anything 50 caliber and less is classified as a small arm. This includes rifles, shotguns, machine guns, handguns, grenades, etc.
Medium caliber weapons are generally classified as 20mm to 60mm. These are usually called cannon, be they burst weapons, gatling style guns, or even single shot.
Technical talk, be accurate. Your welcome.
Dec 17, 2012 at 10:17 p.m.
Dec 17, 2012 at 8:57 p.m.
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NVgrf - AK's are actually medium caliber. Its on the border of barely being able to hunt deer, more than roughly 150 yards you want a bigger gun, more of a deer "hunting rifle". If you ban the medium range rifles, AK, AR's.... then people will be left with hunting rifles and not even need to go running into a building.....they can find a nice bell tower a block or two away and pick off a few dozen people before anyone even knows where they are. Take away one kind of gun and you open a window for a whole new scenario. Anyone can walk in and buy a Barrett .50 caliber rifle.. its effective range is almost a mile. That would worry me more than any assault rifle. the 50 caliber is essentially an anti-aircraft round. And anyone can go buy one at any gun shop. lol.....
Dec 17, 2012 at 8:43 p.m.
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MLS - I agree 100%, problem is we have rights group activists that if you do start addressing mentally deficient people, unless they are committed you cant do anything without violating their rights. And getting someone committed....it would probably be easier to enable an act of congress. So you spot or know someone that is on the verge of a mental break down... the channels you have to go through would probably take 3 months before anything could be done. And then it he/she was a threat they can only hold them for so long. You cant hold people for something they havnt done yet. We have to wait till they break the law before they are a criminal. Unless they just come out and say "hey im going to go mow a bunch of people down". Which how likely is that.
Face it......our hands are tied really. Everyone realizes that so lets blame guns.
Dec 17, 2012 at 8:31 p.m.
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You can own a tank if you want... with the proper permits.
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It all stems down to how uncountable we Americans are. Its never anyones fault, its always someone elses fault, or an inanimate objects fault, or something of the likes. We cant accept a simple statement like "he did it because he was crazy"... no, we need more closure...oh a gun he used...Yep guns did it. Was he wearing pants? Oh... pants did it too. How likely would he have been to go on a shooting spree if he had no pants?
Dec 17, 2012 at 8:24 p.m.
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DeGryse - When I served, real military didn't try to intimidate others with braggadocio – didn’t need to. You seem to pretty be hung up on yourself. But the bottom line is that we don’t need more kids getting killed in schools so that you can have dreams of saving the nation from some imagined evil force.
And since you are also a constitutional expert, why can’t I have my fully working tank with ammo if I can pay for it? It is an arm and the 2nd amendment guarantees me the right to bear arms. Why is that restricted and not another weapon like an AR-15? What is the determining factor?
Dec 17, 2012 at 8:05 p.m.
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NVgrf ,that was the most idiotic thing you have ever posted ! Go to bed you must need some sleep!
Dec 17, 2012 at 7:54 p.m.
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The problem we need to be discussing is what needs to be done to the mental health care system in this country to properly treat the people who do these things. Our mental health care system is broken. People love to hop on the gun control bandwagon, but gun laws are not going to stop people with mental problems from doing these horrible things.
Dec 17, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.
Dec 17, 2012 at 6:04 p.m.
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DeGryse - maybe you should think a little more deeply about your comments. They are somewhat irrational as is your obsession with thinking that, with your Bushmaster and 30 round clips, you can take on the US Army, Air Force, Marines and Navy with their vast array of weapons and overthrow the corrupt government that you likely obsess over. Or do you think we should all be allowed Howitzers, tanks, jet fighters and a few nukes to go with them? In fact, where does the second amendment say that we shouldn't be allowed nukes in our house for sport and comfort? See, I can be irrational also.....and I was in the military - not just related to someone who was.
Dec 17, 2012 at 5:52 p.m.
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Greg, one thing I left off my list is what role the press plays in this. In some countries, the names or faces of these people are not shared in the news so they get no notoriety from their acts. I am not saying this to pick on the press but it is still something to be considered in the discussion of all of the violence.
Dec 17, 2012 at 5:16 p.m.
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That women was as disturbed as her son.
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:50 p.m.
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The Dalai Lama .. "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg."
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:35 p.m.
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Dont want the teachers walking around the students with fire arms ok.....look at these safes , cheaper then a lap top and opens with a hand print .
http://www.deansafe.com/biometric-safes....
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.
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I'm all for creating a new Armed teacher position for every so many students at least one adult is specially trained and armed . There would be less of these incidents !
You Rarely hear hear of a gun man going to shoot up a police station or a Gun Store .
its always where the unarmed are , Movies , Schools , Restaurants .
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:23 p.m.
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It's easier to get a gun then a drivers license. Make anyone who wants to own a gun take a class, taught by a police officer or someone trained by the military. After the class make them take a written test as well as a gun handling aptitude test. If there are any red flags, deny the application and alert authorities to what ever the red flag was. Whether it be a failed test or a competence issue. Also if there is any reason to believe that the applicant has any kind of mental health issue do not pass that person!
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:20 p.m.
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Greg, this is a good post but there are other areas to look at also. What about graphic violence in the movies and on TV? Does that play a role? What about graphically violent video games? What about references to violence in some of our music? How do we view the people in society that need mental health support but cannot afford it or even refuse it if they do have access? How do these people get identified for needed help? And with the demands for smaller government, who is going to pay for any of this including the armed guards in our schools? Do we get rid of a teacher in order to pay for the armed guard(s) in the building? These are all topics of discussion that we need to begin with and there are even more when it comes to leadership in our state and nation. All of our public interaction and discourse has an effect on the young, inquisitive, and developing minds of our children. Passing laws and funding them makes no sense if the laws are not effective – they need to be honestly discussed first. When groups like the NRA and those who hide behind the second amendment to support their paranoid hatred of government, use threats and fear to filibuster (not allow) that honest discussion of the real issues to take place, we make no progress and even foster more violence to be waged on other unsuspecting and innocent citizens.
Regarding shutting the barn door...if there are still horses in the barn to be saved, why then leave the doors open to lose even more?
Last but not least, your Uncle Bob sounds like quite a guy. I bet under his rough and tough talking outside there was a great caring human being inside.
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.
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2nd She knew her child was off.....that should of triggered a thought to lock guns out of reach .
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.
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She had over 2 grand in guns , she should of had them in a gun safe for starters .
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:05 p.m.
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"GUNS DON"T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!!!"
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The problem is too many nutjobs have guns, what do you suggest as a fix to stop the killings?
Dec 17, 2012 at 4:01 p.m.
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This is a Story worth a read , another poster added this link but its def worth anther read .
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04...
Dec 17, 2012 at 3:59 p.m.
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I agree that the place where sigma40 works should have a plan in case "someone" goes crazy.
Dec 17, 2012 at 3:57 p.m.
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I hate how as a society whenever something horrible like this happens certain people jump on the "gun control" train. Everytime someone is pulled over for speeding or there is a accident where someone dies because of high speed should we ban cars that go over the speed limit? When someone kills a innocent family because they are drunk behind the wheel do we ban alcohol? When someone dies of cancer do we ban cigarettes? When someone dies of obesity do we ban fast food? When someone kills them self due to a self inflicted gun shot do we ban guns? I know it's been said a billion times but people need to hear it again. GUNS DON"T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!!! A armed, knowledgeable security guard would have stopped this before it happened. The headline would have read "Security guard stops gunman at Elementary School".
Dec 17, 2012 at 3:56 p.m.
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Isn't it ironic that Nancy Lanza was the "gun obsessive living in fear", that bought the guns and allowed Adam, the shooter, access to them. The scared people buying guns are the ones causing the problem it seems.
Dec 17, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.
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I think with more and more psychos out there more people should arm themselves. Look at the security at our courthouse...lol. First time i went in there I couldnt believe it. Now look at the security at our schools...hmm. I would think even a firearm in a locked cabinet with only a select few key holders would be better than nothing. I was discussing this at my work awhile back about having a plan if someone goes nuts, could be a former ticked off employee or a random psycho. No place really has a plan except "call 911". A lot of good that does when you have a person with a gun.
Dec 17, 2012 at 2:34 p.m.
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These psychopaths all seem to have death wishes so I'm not sure Uncle Bob's rationale is applicable to these situations because we are afterall talking about the most irrational human beings on the planet.
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