The intolerant have no math skills. A family making 40grand was taxed at the rate of a evil rich persons first 40grand. It is called a marginal tax rate for a reason. The simple reality the socialist left fringe will never be happy that is why they play political envy games with class warfare.

Don't attempt to rephrase your LIE. You said, "favored the wealthy (who received a larger decrease in their tax rate compared to everyone else)".

The lowest received a 5% movement from 15 to 10. That drop was larger percentage change from what the top rate dropped. So sad that an intolerant liberal has a problem being identified for what they are, then whine about being called names. If you can't stand being identified as liar then don't do it...pretty simple.

http://gazettextra.com/photos/2012/nov/1...

http://gazettextra.com/photos/2012/nov/1...

More lies from gandalf, "The Bush/Republican tax cuts that favored the wealthy (who received a larger decrease in their tax rate compared to everyone else)"

Where did you learn math? The Bush tax cuts added an addition bracket, lowered the bottom tax bracket by ~33%, raised the min income before taxes are paid (another decrease), but only dropped the top bracket by ~11%.

When all you have is rhetoric and echo's from msDNC, msnBIASc, huff post, and TPM it is no wonder you have no accurate information.

Wislady, I was 100% sincere. I've been pushing to stop the divide in our state and country for a while now. But then you went and posted in other threads implying that it was up to the Dems to start working together. It's up the majority to include the minority. The true test of a leader isn't how he treats the powerful, it's how he treats the powerless. And the Dems are powerless as the minority right now.

More of gandalfs LIES, "You totally disregard the facts about how the Republican Bush and Republican Congress passed tax cuts (primarily for their wealthy benefactors)".

Having a tough time with reality again? The tax cuts were bipartisan and they were for all who pay federal income tax. Lastly, people keeping their own money is not a cost to the govt, unless you think all money is the govt...just like a socialist.

I said, ""As though there's a significant difference between who pays federal taxes and who pays state taxes."

RetiredAirForce replies, "The left has shown more incompetence when it comes to govt financing; There is a HUGE difference between state debt and federal debt."

Tough night, RAF? I was talking about individual and corporate taxes, NOT government debt. Carry on, governor.

Good morning Fedup.

Bwaahhhhhh! Tell those democrats that elections have consequences. They can go along for the ride but they need to get in the back seat and let the adults handle this. Also, can you say, "Mining Bill?" No? Too bad. Then move back to Rockford where you belong.

The left has shown more incompetence when it comes to govt financing; "As though there's a significant difference between who pays federal taxes and who pays state taxes. Amazing logic from the conservative camp that preaches the state government can do things much more efficiently than the federal government. Oh, really?"

There is a HUGE difference between state debt and federal debt. The state has NO CHOICE but to pay its debts. The federal govt will do what it has done for decades just monetize by printing more money. The sheer utter ignorance, to govt spending and finance, displayed by many on the left is one of the reasons this country has entered the fiscal mess it is in right now.

If schnibble and concernedwi are sincere, that would also be nice.

Schnibs..you have to admit the whole obamacare/supreme court thing is kinda funny. The Obama administration was adminent about the fact that this was not another tax, yet the only way the supreme court could justify it as being constitutional, is to label it exactly what Obama was denying that it was.:) Regardless, it needs to go away.
As far as the rest of your list is concerned...
pro right to work
Against the permit less gun legislation
Pro allowing people to purchase un-pasteurized milk if they wish to do so
Against legislation to block funding for more secure licenses-- provided we use those licenses for things such as voter ID......

Schnibs..you have to admit the whole obamacare/supreme court thing is kinda funny. The Obama administration was adminent about the fact that this was not another tax, yet the only way the supreme court could justify it as being constitutional, is to label it exactly what Obama was denying that it was.:) Regardless, it needs to go away.
As far as the rest of your list is concerned...
pro right to work
Against the permit less gun legislation
Pro allowing people to purchase un-pasteurized milk if they wish to do so
Against legislation to block funding for more secure licenses-- provided we use those licenses for things such as voter ID......

I buy my own health insurance for my family. I'd really like to see these exchanges get set up. I wonder if I will be allowed to buy in the Illinois exchange if WI drags their feet.

Red....They did it that way to make absolutely sure that they would retain control of every aspect of the state government. Mission accomplished:) Don't tell me that the democrats wouldn't have done the same thing. Seriously--they actually flee the state to avoid a vote, passed billion dollar tax hikes with zero public input and now we have them crying about how the redistricting was done. Too funny!
As far as involving legal, that was an extremely wise political and financial decision for them. Considering how the libs push everything the Republicans do into the court systems, it should have been expected that attorneys were consulted during redistricting. A wise move taking into account how the court system dealt with the challenges......

For the first time ever...I have to agree with Wislady

Let's hope the two parties can work together for the best solution for Wisconsin.

raystone -"voters across the country have passed state referendums saying they cannot be forced to buy health insurance. States are standing up for their 10th amendment rights" I have read something out of the main stream. This was settled at a place called Appomattox. Federal law trumps states.

No kidding 916WI! With a Republican Gov., majorities in the Legislature and a Supreme Court loaded with right-wing extremists how could they NOT succeed in redistricting to the point of absurdity? So why did Republicans require backroom deals, oaths of silence, millions of dollars in attorney bills (to do a job taxpayers pay Legislators to perform) and intervention from a Judge to restore Latino representation? Because our Republican Legislators can’t even perform simple basic legislative tasks, much less those requiring serious deliberation.

Gandalf....Social security wasn't set up to be a "welfare" program, rather it was set up to be an insurance program. What one contributes is what one is supposed get back. If you raised the limits, those that contribute more should be receiving that same amount back when they reach retirement age. This would effectively void out any benefit of increasing the deduction.....no?

Expanding on my earlier speculation that Ryan may have signed this letter had he not been in such shock over losing the presidential election, based largely on their internal polling... Daily Kos, the Service Employees International Union and PPP had the most accurate polls of 2012! The liberal media (NBC, CBS, ABC and CNN) all beating out conservative FOX News. And what about the poll most often cited by conservatives on this website -- Rasmussen? Number 24 -- tied with the other poll often cited by conservatives, Gallup. Oh those D+8 polls!

"Fordham University has published a ranking of the most accurate pollsters of the 2012 in terms of national trends, and (both) top spots were held by Democratic-leaning Public Policy Polling, the North Carolina-based firm." [ http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/en... ]

1. PPP (D)*

1. Daily Kos/SEIU/PPP*

3. YouGov*

4. Ipsos/Reuters*

5. Purple Strategies

6. NBC/WSJ

6. CBS/NYT

6. YouGov/Economist

9. UPI/CVOTER

10. IBD/TIPP

11. Angus-Reid*

12. ABC/WP*

13. Pew Research*

13. Hartford Courant/UConn*

15. CNN/ORC

15. Monmouth/SurveyUSA

15. Politico/GWU/Battleground

15. FOX News

15. Washington Times/JZ Analytics

15. Newsmax/JZ Analytics

15. American Research Group

15. Gravis Marketing

23. Democracy Corps (D)*

24. Rasmussen

24. Gallup

26. NPR

27. National Journal*

28. AP/GfK

We sent these people away from our the state's politics, but they keep returning - like a bad case of goneria.

These democrats were elected to work in Washington and to stay out of Wisconsin's business. Hopefuly Governor Walker doesn't even read their useless letter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonk...
33%?

Midnight, why would Obama want to create a health care system that is setup to fail? Can we finally get past the point where we think the other side is out to destroy the country? Obama put the ACA into place because he thinks that it is the best path for healthcare. You can disagree with the effectiveness of it, but come on, both parties are just trying to do what they think is best.

schnibble, that sounds like something much more important than a pickup basketball game or round of golf that your savior usually goes to instead of running the country.

wader8 says
Unfortunately Liberal Democrats are so blind by talking points and ideology, that they tend to look right past common sense. Argue all you want to about whether you think it will be cheaper or not, or argue about whether more will have access or not, or argue about state v.s. federal funding and control - because there are not yet alot of firm answers on these issues. But the one spot that's undebatable is human nature. Tell all doctors and private hospitals that a procedure or service they earned $1000 for previously has now been non-negotiably reduced to $750, and you will have Dr.'s and private hospitals that won't provide that service - at a much higher rate. You will also have good Dr's retire and you will have good potential Dr's decide to not get into this profession because you've basically told them that their income's will be wage controlled by the federal gov't. This will quickly lead to mediocre care provided by mediocre D's. Good luck folks!
Now replace Liberal Democrats with Republicans, and Doctors with teachers.
Scott Walker's control of local spending.
" Wow I think he's got it"!

"we're"

"Republicans have proven inept at even attempting the simple task of redistricting."
This cracked me up(thx!:)) considering the claim coming from the libs after the election. First you claim that the only way the Republicans took control of our state's government was though redistricting.......now you claim that they are inept because of redistricting........huh? It looks like they were really good at accomplishing exactly what they set out to do......no??
At least were on the same page--let the Fed set up the exchange. When this whole thing blows up let them deal with the losses that are sure to surface.....Forward!

Clinton wine tests down under, Obama goes golfing while surrounder by scandal and east cost residents still in trouble but by GOD Walker better not go to a GOP conference.

Obama golfs - Walker is meeting with GOP Governors to announce the mass exodus from Obamacare

The dems also invited him to lunch at their southern office - the clocktower in Rockford.

Midnight_Ride - 1p.m. One Federal Program that seems to have worked quite well is the health care plan that the people who are supposed to represent us have.

Unfortunately Liberal Democrats are so blind by talking points and ideology, that they tend to look right past common sense. Argue all you want to about whether you think it will be cheaper or not, or argue about whether more will have access or not, or argue about state v.s. federal funding and control - because there are not yet alot of firm answers on these issues. But the one spot that's undebatable is human nature. Tell all doctors and private hospitals that a procedure or service they earned $1000 for previously has now been non-negotiably reduced to $750, and you will have Dr.'s and private hospitals that won't provide that service - at a much higher rate. You will also have good Dr's retire and you will have good potential Dr's decide to not get into this profession because you've basically told them that their income's will be wage controlled by the federal gov't. This will quickly lead to mediocre care provided by mediocre D's. Good luck folks!

Or PanamaRed, Obama's next four years are worse then the first four years rendering Democrats powerless and GOP begin reversing senseless Government intrusion.

Mouse, what if you don't want private insurance or government insurance?

"It would only make sense to let the Federal government set up the exchange."
-
Right again 916WI. Republicans have proven inept at even attempting the simple task of redistricting. They tried hiring (at taxpayer expense) high priced attorneys sympathetic to the "conservative" ideology and THEY couldn't even get it right. Taxpayers continue to pay MILLIONS for Republican incompetence. Walker, his Administration and the Republican legislative majority have proven ineffective at creating a simple mining bill. There is no possible way Republicans could structure a health care exchange. Like 916 says, let the Fed set up an Exchange and then in a couple years when Walker is forced to take his circus on the road the Democrats will step up to establish the State run Healthcare Exchange WI residents deserve.

Gandalf, Medicare needs supplements from PRIVATE companies such as AARP and Doctors are refusing patients because the Government won't pay existing rates and S.S. is going bankrupt without reform. Obamacare robs from Medicare taking from the elder.

Do you have anything else?

The real question is, when Scott calls up Diane, what she will tell him to do.

"As though there's a significant difference between who pays federal taxes and who pays state taxes. Amazing logic from the conservative camp that preaches the state government can do things much more efficiently than the federal government. Oh, really?"

Yes, really.......From an efficiency perspective the state can be most efficient by spending $0 and letting the Federal government administer their entitlement.....It has nothing to do with the difference between who pays state and who pays federal taxes. It has everything to do with the cost being spread over 50 states as opposed to being absorbed by only one. Whether or not the state can run the program more efficiently isn't the issue--the issue is that this is a Federal program, if they are willing to take on the cost of setting up and maintaining the exchange, it makes no sense to burden the state's taxpayers with those costs.

You forgot to use past tense...both programs will be defunded in several years given the nature of the election. Walker needs to stand tall and say no to Obamacare for WI.

No one can tell you anything.

Can you tell me one Federal Run program that has worked as advertised?

States and states rights have always been a part of our constitution.

Losers syndrome? We won our state back. Washington is the same as it was last week.
We are all about to lose quality health care

The Gov has put himself between a rock and a hard place. If he creates the state run exchange, he will be viewed by the other tea pottiers around the Country as caving to Obamacare and look bad in WI since he turned away $38 million. If he doesn't he will have exposed himself once again as a liar and go against his "philosophy" of the state running programs better than the Feds. Wonder what he'll do? My money is on being branded a liar. It doesn't seem to bother him.

wow - some of you guys really have bad loser syndrome...

This is as good as it gets for the American healthcare system.

The Obama Administration cost will sore 29Billion to 71Billion by 2020 in beauracratic cost. Just in administrative cost to insure you follow the law. 71 Billion would just insure eveyone.

This again, has nothing to do with healthcare but Government control.

Of course Obama doesn't care who this hurts or how bad it hurts. His main goal is socialize medicine with lines to see a doctor and a 15 member death panel.

Come 1/1/14 - if you are a young person who can't find a job or find a 30 hour job because that's all that's left you are forced to buy insurance you can't afford at a government store that sells one product or the IRS can withhold your return. Fill out the extra IRS form or you will be found my comrade.

Even if you have a private plan, section 1311 the government can tell your doctor what you can and can't have for treatment.

To all, just be prepared for the outcome. It may not be all you think it is.

wasp2491 - voters across the country have passed state referendums saying they cannot be forced to buy health insurance. States are standing up for their 10th amendment rights, including in the areas of marijuana, TSA, NDAA and health insurance. Obamacare being implemented is far from a sure thing. Once in a while, you need to read something out of the mainstream media that spoonfeeds you the administration's talking points.

I'm sure Ryan would have signed the letter as well had he fully recovered from the shock of losing the presidential election. I'll bet their internal polling people who were using D+0 weighting were even more shocked. Precious.

"The polling we had. The numbers we were looking at looked like we stood a pretty good chance of winning," Ryan said. "So, when the numbers came in, going the other direction. When we saw the turnout that was occurring in urban areas which were really fairly unprecedented, it did come as a bit of a shock. So, those are the toughest losses to have -- the ones that catch you by surprise." [ http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/en... ]

is it blatantly obvious what is going on here with Obamacare or is it just me?

Walker would be wise, along with the 30 other GOP Governors to opt out and defund Obamacare. 2700 page bill in which after 3 years is still a mysterious disaster. The more we learn, the worse it gets.

So much economic misery and Obamacare is creating more of it with the hours limits and employee limits on business owners.

In Wisconsin, Obamacare to Increase Individual Insurance Premiums by 30%

In Wisconsin, as elsewhere, Obamacare will drive up the cost of private health coverage, especially for those who buy insurance on their own. One of Obama’s key health-care advisers, Jonathan Gruber, found that by 2016, individual premiums in Wisconsin will increase by an average of 30 percent. In addition, Obamacare will deeply cut Medicare Advantage for more than 300,000 Wisconsin seniors enrolled in the program. And 27 percent of Wisconsin physicians say that they will place new or additional limits on accepting Medicare patients.- Forbes

916WI said, "It would only make sense to let the Federal government set up the exchange. Let them bear the burden of that expense."

As though there's a significant difference between who pays federal taxes and who pays state taxes. Amazing logic from the conservative camp that preaches the state government can do things much more efficiently than the federal government. Oh, really?

raystone - You lost in the Supreme court, you lost last Tuesday. Suck it up!

Mouse grow up

An Open Letter to Governor Scott Walker
Hand delivered, November 12th, 2012
----
Governor Walker:
Last January, Wisconsinites cheered when you sent back to the federal government a $38 million Early Innovator Grant that had bound the State of Wisconsin to establish an Obamacare exchange, along with an additional $11 million intended for integration of the state’s Medicaid system into that planned exchange.
We weren’t the only ones.
You earned the respect and gratitude of citizens across the United States and garnered the status of national hero for your principled courage in telling the Federal Department of Health and Human Services that Wisconsin would not move ahead with an exchange that compromised, in numerous respects, our state and
its people. It made us want to fight that much harder to get you through the recall debacle and keep you in office.
Moreover, your actions provided valuable impetus to other state governments in standing against federal overreach, protecting their own sovereignty, and continuing to guarantee the liberty of their own citizens.
Unquestionably, our nation would be far better off had the states not forgotten these clear duties for so long.
Fortunately, with the help of leaders such as yourself, they have started to remember them.

Open Letter (cont.)
Today, in the struggle against Obamacare, we have reached an even more critical juncture than that of last January. Wisconsin must remain in the vanguard of states declaring “NO!” and moving toward nullification.
The numbers alone demonstrate that there is no good reason to comply. The unfunded liabilities that an Obamacare exchange would force Wisconsin to absorb – estimated between $70 and $100 million dollars per year for our state – along with the costs to business, together quickly cancel out any and all of the gains you
have thus far achieved via Act 10 and other economic steps taken over the past two years. The blow to businesses and families would be devastating in an already bleak economy.
Worse still, it would obliterate the constitutional liberties that you, as governor, are sworn to uphold and defend. If the sovereignty of the State of Wisconsin is sacrificed, the personal liberty of every single one of its citizens will likewise disappear. Such an outcome is unthinkable. It must not be permitted.
Wisconsin must stand.
As a significant and highly active portion of your base, we have defended you tirelessly through all of the battles of the last year and a half. We also came to the aid of legislators who stood with you on Act 10. We have done right by you. We now urge you to once again do right by us.
You are unquestionably being pressured by powerful lobbying firms and by the federal government alike as you make this decision. Undoubtedly, you face great temptation to take the path of least resistance. This is the
moment of truth. What will you do?
The sovereignty of this state and the personal liberty of every single Wisconsinite is at stake – including the lives of the unborn, on whose behalf you have, to date, always advocated. No other considerations can
compare to life and liberty.
As noted, a yes to Obamacare is not an option. We will not accept it. We are therefore waiting for you to issue an unequivocal, “NO!” When you do, we expect all Republican state legislators to stand with you, as will we.

gary.......link to information where the state would be responsible for maintaining/financing a Federally set up exchange??

The supreme court ruling lets states opt out of the expansion of medicaid. Many chose to ignore states share the cost of each medicaid patient. What that means for the state is millions of more dollars out of their budgets for buying into this scheme.

garyprimer - you are right. Walker's foot stomping and saying no to everything except what the Koch brothers wants has got to stop!

The state will be responsible for the exchange no matter who sets it up.
This childish foot stomping and breath holding got old a long time ago.

Considering the options, I think state run is the way to go. A state run system has got to be better than anything the federal gov't is going to come up with. The last thing we need is more control at a federal level.

It would only make sense to let the Federal government set up the exchange. Let them bear the burden of that expense. The Federal government's exchange would then be responsible for dealing with the problems which are sure to surface after this entitlement is unleashed onto the country.