copperguy won't that take money out of pockets of cops like you. Oh yes they lost the weed I forgot.That is called undercover sex/lies/ and cops making pot smokers do cops job and still put them in jail.

Just write what you mean next time =)

No, I do not, nor never had, any issues with addiction. I said, IMO, I don't feel that alcoholism is a "disease"..but rather a habit that leads to addiction. I feel that if you have been in control of your drinking for x amount of years and resolved whatever stressors that led to the addiction of alcohol, I feel that you are no longer an alcoholic. I feel that yes, for some it is a lifelong battle but for others, it may have been only a brief moment of their lives. Just because someone had an issue once, does not necessarily mean they will ALWAYS have that issue. Read between the lines of my posts please.

Come on people, you've never heard of a functioning addict/alcoholic? And I think if you used to be a true alcoholic, trying to drink again is just playing with fire. Same with heroin or cigarettes. Yeah, you quit, you're no longer an addict, you can have "one". You really believe the majority of recovering addicts can do that? For a nurse, with all due respect, that sounds terribly ill-advised. Maybe you're talking from personal experience, and it works for you or someone you know? But generally speaking, any time you kick an addiction, it's with the mindset that you are an addict, and you cannot control yourself with it like some or most other people. Different folks, different strokes, but I think if you play with fire you're going to get burned.

I think one thing that can help differentiate between an alcoholic and someone who just likes to drink is control. If you like to drink five times a week, and get plastered, but you can easily cut back or stop on your own... then I don't think you're an alcoholic. I've had my binges that lasted for even weeks at a time.
Just before I got out of the Marine Corps, when I was stationed in Southern California, my buddy Joe from Japan got sent out to So Cal. He didn't know anyone out there and was pretty much as lost as I was when I first got there. He was sent to my unit, I had a car, and we were really good buds from before. We ended up hanging out for about that whole month before I left. Every single night we drank, and we got to the point where if all we had was one case in the fridge, we had to get more or we'd run out. We were just a couple of old friends having a really good time together (at the expense of our livers, though.) Do I still drink every day? Heck no. I was able to draw that line, to make the distinction between having a good time with a close friend who I might not see again for a long time, and getting out of control. I'm certainly not advocating heavy drinking. Alcohol is addictive, and for -some- people, heavy drinking will lead to LOADS of problems. I am just blessed with an amazing amount of will power and control, that's all.

copperguy well said again.

hannah the complete opposite. you are a fool. you talk way to close about personal stuff and post seemingly incoherently. 4 or 5 posts in a row cuz you cant manage to put two thoughts togethor. i think the problem with you is like what my 7 year old is working on. reading comprehension. i didnt say id have a problem with drinking. you insinuated i would and i actually said THE EXACT OPPOSITE. i have no desire to drink and have no doubt if i gave up the smoke i would not be tempted to drink. one thing i can promise im giving up is discussing this with you. next time the bullys are pickin on you about chasin a red balloon i wont join em, too easy of a target in my book, but i certainly am done defending you.

Picture it: St. Louis. Mid 1980's. A father and son. Father got drunk daily for some 35 years. Son drank 5PM - close, six nights a week, for 4 years. Father stopped drinking, and never again had a single drink. He knew that if he had a single drink, he would be right back to his old ways. Son stopped drinking regularly a couple of years later, but still had the occasional drink.

So, were they both alcoholics, addicted to alcohol. Some 25+ years later, I still have an occasional drink or two. Am I an alhoholic who is just fooling himself?

There are different types of personalities, as many posters have alluded. Some who smoke marijuana regularly do have trouble coping with life absent the THC escape. But, this is true with many substances. Alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and even legal and lawfully prescribed medications help us get though life (think Prozac, Zoloft, Celexia, Ambien, Xanax, etc. etc.).

Consenting adults are free in this country to choose their crutch, as long as that choice doesn't infringe the rights of others or create in the user an undue societal risk. Marijuana does neither of these. It should be a choice. Certainly, there is no legitimate reason to withhold it as a medical treatment from those who it would benefit.

as one who has had that 'addictive personality' since day one...my opinion is that alcoholism is an environment induced 'disease' that can totally be cured. ive been cured. do i need to drink responsible for years to prove that i dont have an issue with alcohol?? thats silly. i dont have an issue with alcohol NOW cuz marijuana helped CURE me.

BTW~I am SURE I will get a lot of heat for my comments..but whatever...

Legalize Medical Marijuana!!

I think depending on that person's life experiences and current state of mind, there could be a chance at a relapse. Relying on old habits to get through a stressor in their life. I just don't agree with that whole "alcohol is a disease" concept. I think people fear that they will go down that road again, so they do not drink. But really, after X amount of years, socially drinking is NOT going to lead to alcohol abuse unless that person chooses to do that.

Nurse, you would know better, since you are a nurse...But personally, I believe once an addict, always an addict. It think it's true that once you get to a certain point, you can only get clean. I know many people who will not touch a drink, because its been X amount of years since they had one. I just think once you "recover" from drugs or alcohol, you are in a constant state of recovery. If you start again, chances are great that you will quickly fall back into addict mode. Just my 2 cents from what I've seen/whom I know.

For the record~ I do NOT believe that alcohol is an incurable "disease." I believe it is a habit that can CAUSE diseases and illnesses. Yes, it is sometimes necessary to seek medical assistance to stop drinking because you can have DTs and yes even die from withdrawal if you are a heavy drinker. I firmly believe that if someone stopped drinking ten years ago they are NOT STILL an alcoholic. That is just my opinion, but hey, what do I know? I am just an RN.

unfortunately freeradical those who have NO experience with pot have been so misinformed from day 1 that they arent even aware that there could be a reality other than what theyve been told. thats where we come in to PROVE that responsible smokers are the rule, not the exception to the misinformed reefer madness rule.

Kid thats right, its all about money. YOu can tax, regulate and produce marinol much easier than weed, so they thought they'd try it. ridiculous! Greedy controlling fingers at work again

*Creature*, I suggest you educate yourself(otherwise you're just outgunned on this topic) on this subject before you start throwing mud and stones. I got as far as"Ever think about Lung Cancer, Throat Cancer or Brain disorders that can come from excessive/abusive use? Doubtful because you're hooked." Before I wrote off the rest of your post for misinformation.
Ever done research on pot smoke? Look for the studies proving it causes lung cancer. YOu'll find a study that appears to prove the exact opposite. Your demeanor towars pot looks like you haven't smoked it...ever? Pot is not something you get "hooked" on anymore than the coffee you probably have to drink everyday. Get a headache without your coffee? YOu're hooked! Your post and views aren't very educated...maybe you should do some research and filter out whats true, and what is propaganda you've latched onto. Go smoke a joint, tell me how it got you hooked and you had to rob to get your next fix.

good posts freeradical. when the govt classified marinol a schedule III narcotic they PROVED that marijuana being a schedule I narcotic(no known medical use) was a farce. again i ask, why is thc medicine in its synthetic state, but not its natural state?? the answer is simple. profit, greed, lobbyists. the pharmaceutical companies cant patent a plant and they dont want me growing my own medicine. its that simple.

It's illegal to use any medication you yourself do not have a prescription for, but millions of people do it everyday. So just because a "doctor" didn't write a "prescription" doesn't mean its not medicinal. Many medicines are medicines, but require no prescription-you can just go buy tylenol, and it's "medicinal" so arguing weed isn't medicinal without a doctors note is total rubbish!

copperguy good post(s)

As far as marinol is concerned...For one, It doesn't work as well as pot, they can't really recreate the same thing as smoking or ingesting actual marijuana. On another note, why would they research and sell Marinol if "medicinal marijuana" doesn't work? The introduction of marinol is an example of trying to regulate a naturally occuring substance by synthesizing it and selling it from a factory, instead of dealing with the legality issue. If Pot has no medicinal effects, why the hell did the put R and D into it, then MARKET it,too! They are trying to sell legal pot in a pill, and it doesn't work nearly as well.Give it up, medicinal is valid. There's already proof on either side you want to argue from.

creature: good post. i agree de-crim is way more likely...but the greedy at some point will realize its not hurting and the way to maximize taxation on it is to legalize it. make it mainstream.

i will say that we are not as blind to the potential negatives as you suggest. weve all acknowledged, even in this thread, that there is a mental addiction to it. see the addiction vs habitual points below:) i also think we all realize we are inhaling smoke. we also realize that if legal there would be alot more ways to ingest thc than smoking it. right now smoking it is the easiest, best bang for the buck, way to get yo thc. is there a risk of some long term mental health issue?? perhaps, but i could find you way more people who have smoked marijuana for 30 years and have no physical/mental negatives, than i could find you people who have drank for 30 years with no physical/mental effects. sure there are those risks you are talking about. im a free american...i should be able to take those risks if i CHOOSE. i can take those risks w either alcohol or tobacco.

Hannah,
Immigration and Naturalization Service = INS. INS is who you call if you suspect someone is an illegal alien. You kept referring to insurance as "ins," and every time I see just those three letters I automatically think of the INS. That's all there was to that. I bet most of the Hispanic people got that joke... (that's not racist, I'm Hispanic too, and I think it's funny :-p.)
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About marijuana being wrong based solely on the principle that it's illegal... every time we talk about this, we loop back to the same points. Did Rosa Parks do something illegal when she sat at the front of the bus? Yes she did. Was she wrong? No, she wasn't. Right and wrong, legal and illegal, do not always run hand in hand, sadly.
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Creature,
In a study that compared marijuana smokers (light, moderate, and heavy) to non-marijuana smokers, the results showed that a marijuana user is not at a higher risk for mouth, throat, or lung cancer, or other diseases commonly associated with smoking cigarettes, than non-marijuana users (even when you include the heaviest of marijuana smokers.) Also, marijuana does not significantly increase your chances of developing psychosis.
I quit smoking for more than five years. Admittedly, the first year or so of that five I smoked a total of less than 10 times, but then for more than four solid years straight, I didn't smoke the tiniest bit. So, I've walked away from "the drugs." I was sober long enough to clear my head completely. Marijuana is better for you than: caffeine, candy, alcohol, acetaminophen, whole milk, steaks cooked rare, HFCS (high fructose corn syrup), cigarettes, fried chicken, etc, etc, etc.

One additional thought...

There is ABSOLUELY NO DOUBT in my mind (based on EXPERIENCE, not conjecture) that a TINY fraction of people who use marijuana ever get caught with it. I would guesstimate that number at MAYBE 1%. For argument's sake, I'll put it at 10% (though I'm sure that is VERY high). If those who get caught pay a $150 fine, we're not talking about big money.

If, on the other hand, it were legalized, regulated, and taxed, nearly 100% of users would be paying tax on the product.

So, with it unlawful, 1% - 10% are paying into government. With it lawful, 100% would be paying into government. Further, for every time that 10% gets caught, they have hundreds of times that they DON'T get caught.

Do the math. We are missing a HUGE revenue stream by not legalizing it. Further, if it were legal, American farmers would be making money from it rather than sending that money south of the border.

In many, MANY juridictions in Wisconsin, posession of "personal amounts" of marijuana is nothing but a forfeiture. It's the equivalent of driving 26 in a 25, failing to shovel your sidewalk, or putting a "yard sale" sign in the terrace (between the sidewalk and street). Is it illegal? Yes. But, I would challenge ANYONE to let me follow them for a 24 hour period. I can virtually guarantee that I could find some forfeiture violation for nearly every man, woman, and child within 24 hours.

Has anyone heard of laetrile (also sometimes called vitamin B-17, or amygdalin)? It is a "drug" that has been promoted to cure cancer as well as to treat other ailments. It is illegal in the US. Yet, Americans can go to Mexico (the last I knew) for treatment and bring a certain amount back with them.

The same is true for other drugs as well. Yet, Americans are not forbidden from bringing quantities of those drugs in to the US for their own use, under prescription. I had an uncle who resorted to laetrile after he was diagnosed with terminal cancer in the 70's. He died from the disease, though he credited laetrile for a relatively peaceful end. Not sure I buy it, but I can't refute it either.

There are lots of "medicines" that are not recognized as such or allowed to be marketed, under FDA rules. If marijuana helps people deal with illness or avoid other, more dangerous drugs, then why insist on declaring it to not be medicine?

It's illegal. It's illegal! IT'S ILLEGAL!

Interracial marriage WAS illegal. Women voting WAS illegal. Alcohol WAS illegal. Same-sex physical relations WERE illegal. The list goes on and on. These things would all STILL be illegal if not for groups of Americans demanding change.

For the record I really could give a toss if someone wants to waste their money and life on drugs. My problem is making it legal which opens a host of legal issues for employers. I believe the ones who want to use will use as we all know. I could see a policy of decriminalization similar to the Netherlands but to outright legalize has more problems that benefits for the majority. The people who smoke pot will always tell you I can stop at anytime and it's not addictive which is a half truth. Not physically addictive but mentally addictive yes. I would respect your arguments more if you were honest but you're trying to present this rosy picture that MJ has no adverse health implications. Ever think about Lung Cancer, Throat Cancer or Brain disorders that can come from excessive/abusive use? Doubtful because you're hooked. Just like the alcoholic never worries about liver failure. I know many people that I have close relationships dating back 30 years who are regular smokers of MJ. When they run out of weed and cannot get any then the short tempers come out and the I cannot sleep or anxious feelings and some depression sets in. That screams out addictive drug. You will never understand until you've walked away for good from the drugs.

Hey hey, cheers and a *toast* to that, kid ;-). Just in time, too...

haha. good post kai. ca went from passing medical mj in 1996(more votes than clinton got) to discussing LEGAL/TAXED marijuana in 2009. 13 years. once ca does it the rest will follow. medical mj is PROVING that...

byw- alcoholics are NEVER cured!! youre still an alcoholic- dont believe me stop smoking and see for yourself.

i dont agree with you, but if you are right why the expletive would i do that??

wellbutron, anabuse counciling, aa- seems youre not even trying to see a doc cause you LIKE pot and are using "medical" term . I am not disagreeing with you that it works for you the problem is it is ILLEGAL still.

wait, so you agree that it works for me and thats still not good enough?? are you sure youre not my ex wife??;) yes i like pot and im glad it works as medicine for me but if we both agree its medicine WHY WOULD I CARE IF ITS LEGAL OR NOT AS LONG AS IT WORKS?? and how do you know ive never seen a dr for my drinking problem??

also kid I believe youre not a doctor and cannot prescribe to yourself so you keep calling it medical pot. you havent been seen by a doc to get the legal drugs for your addictions.

you are so wise. i am not a dr, nor do i play one on tv. please read my posts earlier about self medication. WE ALL DO IT. i dont need a dr to tell me marijuana is medicine. my life PROVES that its medicine for me. it just happens to be an illegal medicine yet.

kid I am talking about ins if you are at work- you should ask your boss about it.

i have. he thinks pot should be legal. hes on my facebook, and he and the owner of my company have both commented on posts by 'thekid3477'. I DONT HIDE WHAT I DO FROM ANYONE CUZ WHAT I DO IS NOT WRONG. and again, i dont drive company vehicles because of my drunk drivings and high insurance...didnt i already say that?? ughhh

Hannah,
What does the immigration and naturalization service have to do with this? (It's a joke, folks.)
I sometimes wonder if you will ever put all of your thoughts into one post, Hannah. No, you don't have to and I'm not telling you to either. It would make things a lot easier for everyone else, though. It would also help to make your message a lot clearer.
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How do you know thekid never went to AA? I can almost guarantee he was court ordered to, so with that knowledge, obviously he has tried counseling. He has probably tried several things, but nothing is as effective as smoking marijuana.
Just because marijuana is not legal for medical purposes (yet!) in Wisconsin, that doesn't mean he is wrong for using it as medicine. It just means the law is, as normal, being slow to change. Hey, if marijuana keeps kid from becoming a raging alcoholic, I want him to stay on it... even if it is illegal right now. I like hanging out with thekid, he's a really cool guy. I probably wouldn't enjoy chilling with him so much if he was some punk drunkard, though.
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Creature, I think you're speculating a little too much on how Wisconsin will handle medical marijuana. I think it stands to reason perfectly that the compassionate use act was intended for both those unemployed AND employed. Can you refuse to hire someone who is on Zoloft, or other anti-depression medications to treat an ailment, just because they might be a little zoned out? The short answer is no. The long answer is not unless it directly negatively effects the duties in the job description. I also want to point out that disability laws vary state to state, so by your own admission, Wisconsin may be different.
One thing I am certain of though, is it won't matter too much. Marijuana is going to be legalized. There is no logical reason it won't be. When marijuana is totally legalized, you'll see a sweeping change in how the current laws regarding marijuana, employment and otherwise, are written. So what, maybe last year in California they couldn't get that bill to pass. That doesn't mean they've stopped trying. With every state that even thinks about legalizing marijuana for any reason, nation wide legalization is becoming a greater and greater possibility.

no drug test was involved. my boss thinks marijuana should be legal. i dont smoke at or before work and i do my job as well as anyone, so why would they care?? my insurance is high from my two drunk driving arrests so i dont drive any company vehicles.

no offense creature, but i think yer pretty naive when it comes to marijuana use. the pot smokers are ALREADY in the workforce and guess what, empoyers dont know. a drug test can be passed with 24 hours notice. actually it would take about 6 hours notice if you had the anti-testing 'tea' on hand...

copperguy: good post. i am a self admitted regular toker. in the 4 years and 2 months since i last tasted alcohol, i have smoked marijuana all but maybe 30 days total. thats probably an overestimate. usually becuase of travel and not wanting to risk taking it on a plane. it annoys the crap out of me that i can fly to vegas gamble, drink, hire women, but i cant smoke pot. truthfully tho, i have never experienced physical withdrawal symptoms like i did when i quit smoking cigs, or as you point out, even when i gave up caffeine. its literally the most harmless 'drug' available and classified as the hardest. i need some medicine now cuz that makes me sick...

Copperguy: The post was actually a cut and paste from an article posted on the web from a newspaper in California. The Wednesday reference just meant they wrote the article shortly after the veto. My only reason for posting the article was to point out that if California is not protecting the dope smokers and you can surely bet Wisconsin will not allow it. Again I'm not saying California law has anything to do with Wisconsin just making a comparison of actual cases. The simple fact is no employer will ever allow works to remain if they are on dope. There are so many ways to weed out unwanted workers in Wisconsin and these people will be first on the list.

creatureinthefreezer: First, I need to clarify my position because you started out your post of 6:24 PM 11/17/09 with "Wrong again pot smokers." I am not a pot smoker and would not smoke it even if it were made legal for recreational use by the federal government. I also am a very rare drinker. These are two substances that I simply have no interest in using. I did smoke marijuana a few times, more than twenty years ago, but have absolutely zero interest in it now.

California's AB 2279 was vetoed in September 2008. I'm not sure what leads you to think that veto came "Wednesday," as your post states. Was there a new AB 2279 that I haven't found?

The case that spurred AB 2279 was a decision by the California Supreme Court. It dealt with a California State Law. That California Law would not be subect to review by the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Differing Courts often have different views on their state's similar laws. The decision by California's SC has not been visited by the US SC, that I know of.

Someone earlier talked about "habits" versus "addictions." That post was very well put. Ask any regular coffee drinker what happens if they suddenly miss a day of coffee. The withdrawal headache is like no other pain I've ever experienced. Alcohol withdrawal is well documented. The list goes on. Yet, I have never talked with a regular toker who has experienced any physical withdrawal symptoms when they stop using it.

Good post freeradical

to clarify nurse. marinol is a synthetic thc. the american medical association wants to look at the scheduling of marijuana, currently a schedule I narcotic equal to the worst drugs available. yet marinol is a schedule III which means you can get refills by phone. why on earth would thc be medicine in its synthetic state, but not its natural state?? profit and greed.

booch: im not angry, but you have no idea who i am or what medical marijuana has truly done for me.

an email this morning gave me these numbers for number of contacts to the reps about medical marijuana

from 1-JUL-2009 to 17-NOV-2009 activist visits: 1750 /868 unique total emails: 1941 total printed letters: 78 total letters: 2019

Yes, it is true Marinol is made from Cannabis. It is generally prescribed for severe vomiting that is not resolved with traditional first line medications and is prescribed as a last resort. However, Marinol is a manufactured medication with additives from its pharmaceutical company. It has many contradictions for use of persons with certain medical conditions. With the placement of additives, more severe side effects could be experienced.

thekid:
why so angry?
im just saying that the people who want to smoke pot want to smoke pot.
my guess is you're healthy but you want pot legalized.
it seems disingenuous to hide behind the "medicinal" argument when all you really want to do is get fried.
you sound as if you think i disagree with making it legal.

Wrong again pot smokers. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger Wednesday vetoed a bill that would have protected medical marijuana patients from being fired from their jobs for testing positive for pot on a drug test.

The bill, AB 2279, authored by marijuana-friendly Assemblyman Mark Leno (D-San Francisco), would have overturned a January California Supreme Court ruling that allowed employees to fire or otherwise punish employees who legally use medical marijuana under state law. Under the Leno bill, only people in safety-related or law enforcement positions could have been fired.

In that January ruling, the Supreme Court held that the state's Compassionate Use Act did exempt patients and caregivers from being prosecuted by the state, but was not intended to stop employers from firing workers for violating federal drug laws.

Schwarzenegger sang from the same hymnal in his veto message. "I am concerned with interference in employment decisions as they relate to marijuana use," the governor wrote. "Employment protection was not a goal of the initiative as passed by voters in 1996."

But medical marijuana supporters who spoke to the San Francisco Chronicle after the veto announcement begged to differ. "The intent of Prop. 215 was to treat marijuana like other legal pharmaceutical drugs," said Dale Gieringer, a coauthor of the ballot measure and California coordinator of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

Leno told the local newspaper he was not surprised by the veto, given the Chamber of Commerce's opposition to the bill. He said the court majority and the governor apparently presumed that "the voters who supported Prop. 215 in 1996 intended that only those medical marijuana patients who are unemployed could make use of (the law)."

good post

**Habituating, not physically addictive.** Would like to draw the line in the sand here. It is as habituating as morning coffee, dessert after a meal, or a smoke after sex. =) Anything you do can become a habit. Some habits are your own way of helping yourself. Helping yourself wake with coffee, helping yourself sleep with a sleeping pill, helping yourself get rid of a headache by taking a pill so you get on with your day. Plain and simple, if someone becomes "addicted"(using that terminology instead of "if someone develops a habit or find a mew medicine), more than likely they have simply picked up the habit because it is helping them cope with stress, anxiety, nausea, heartburn, insomnia, etc. So if we are talking about medical marijuana here, then by it being habituating, that is no room for calling it bad. Taking advil everyday for arthritis is habituating, and it HELPS you. Who are you to say what I can put in my body if I think it helps me? Answer me that. Who are you to say I can't smoke a plant? Seriously that is a good question you need to ask yourself. By saying "thinking" it helps, I am even open to saying it has a placebo like effect(for those who haven't smoked it,and shouldn't voice their opinion on this anyway). I'm just saying, there are plenty of more unregulated things that go on shelves make outlandish claims that go more unnoticed than this plant. If I were to agree with the fact that it is "addictive" my retort would be "so what?". So is coffee, cigs and many other things we consume. If someone is arguing that if you smoke you'll just drop out and not keep a job and etc...Kind of a funny thing to say since its been around for almost half a century in full force, and I think jobs are HARDER to get now. If getting stoned was such a huge, crazy and terribly addicting epidemic-where are all the jobs since so many people obviously can't get them smoking a joint everyday? I guess I just don't understand the view of those against it, especially medicinally. What do you stand to gain by keeping it illegal? What is the angle? Why aren't you spending more time tightening restrictions on things we put in our water(flouride is known to cause birth defects and brain damage) or re-outlawing alcohol(haha)? What is the worst case scenario if weed were legalized, even if only for medicinal use? I don't see the real danger, in fact I see a decrease in crime across the board as supply would increase. On top of that, other laws may be taken more seriously than before, since so many people disregard laws for weed NOW, they also are more apt to disregard smaller things more and more. If you are ok with breaking one law, whats one more? Or stretching the others? I have yet to see a concrete argument outlining the repercussions if weed is kept illegal, as opposed to reaping benefits from this rising,largely accepted niche of US,Canadian and world culture.

NONE HABIT FORMING NON ADDICTIVE do you want a definition or what?

i think people like thekai are more prominent than you think. as ive stated before, one of the problems with breaking the stereotype is no one talks about their marijuana intake. WHY WOULD THEY?? they risk prosecution and persecution. WHEN its legal the numbers will say that more people are smoking pot, but the reality is more people will just be admitting to smoking pot.

YES! It's about time ! Not toxic either like cigarettes and alcohol !

Fair enough . Maybe you and thekid should start your own lil buisness ! Wink Wink

loveisgood,
I believe there was a day last week that I didn't get high. Then a day or two the week before. Some days I go the whole day without smoking and I don't even realize it until the day is done. So long as I stay busy, its really easy to forget about getting high. If I stopped smoking weed, I'd just do the same things I do when I do smoke weed.

thekai - I'm glad you have control of things and feel comfortable with that. I believe you aren't the norm. I just know many that are completely opposite of you and one thing to another has taken them down the road to disaster rather than just doing what's needed to not rely on anything. Seen it first hand.

Thekai , When is the last time you went a day with smoking the reef ? If you quit smoking mj what would you do in place of that ?

Spark,
Your reaction is normal and precautionary. No one believes someone who drinks somewhat frequently when that person says, "I can stop whenever I want." Its the same as when a smoker says that. I'm with you, I never believe a smoker when he or she tells me they can stop whenever they want. This is why I offer my personal stories. It's why I try to show instances in the past where I have had to make the choice to stop, and I was able to do so independently.
With marijuana, though, I'll tell you that -most- people can quit marijuana without a single problem. In fact, most do at some point in their lives in order to score a job. The temporary cessation of imbibing marijuana is sometimes unavoidable if you want some measurable amount of success in today's society.
I would like to add that certain people have addictive personalities while others do not. Some believe it's actually a genetic thing. Myself as well as both of my sisters have all smoked cigarettes at one time in our lives. All three of us were able to stop smoking cigarettes in an instant. I still have not picked up a cigarette for roughly 9 years. Combined with my ability to stop drinking on demand, to stop drinking caffeinated beverages by accident (the sugar in pop was rotting my teeth away, and that's why I quit), and my recent decision to only eat meat twice a week.. I'm pretty sure I don't have an addictive personality at all. So if it helps to know this, Spark, I've been quitting addictive things and been in control all my life.

I understand some of your points, but I don't believe it when one says they can stop drinking or smoking if they want. Not when you're doing it that frequently. It's not that easy, especially stating that you needed one to stop the other. Please understand, If you don't want to stop, that's completely your choice and there's a difference.

spark: i was arrested 13 times for various drinking offenses. i racked up debt and fines that i thought id NEVER get paid off. about 200 total days in jail. i had no license. my kids lived in a dift state so i saw them every other wknd. then i switched to marijuana only and boom. debts gone. fines paid. license back. kids back in my life. no handcuffs since. look at my life before i smoked marijuana medically and look at my life where i smoke marijuana every day and tell me its not medicine for me. another drug?? sure. would it be ok if a dr gave me a pharmaceutical drug that did this for me?? or would it be ok if i went to AA 4 times a week?? EVERYONE self medicates. we ALL have dift forms of medication. you CANT say, especially without a phd, that marijuana is not medicine for those of us who use it instead of alcohol. you just cant.

heres a link from a dr who did some research regarding cannabis as a substitute for alcohol.

http://www.doctordeluca.com/Library/Abst...

heres the google search to read soooo much more about using cannabis instead of alcohol

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...

Spark,
I can stop drinking (or smoking weed, for that matter) whenever I want.
Case in point, shortly after I joined the military I almost got caught under age drinking. I was able to see that the risks outweighed the benefits, and I quit drinking. For nine months. After nine months, by god's grace, the legal drinking age for Marines stationed in Japan changed to 20. I was prepared to stop drinking until I was 21, but I didn't need to. I know I could do that again. So, seeing as how I feel completely in control, I don't think that I have an alcohol problem. I control the drinking, not the other way around. I was simply stating that when I get high, I don't feel like drinking any more. I just don't want to drink alcohol when I get stoned, simple as that.
And by the way, 2-3 times a week at 3-10 beers isn't over doing it. I'm saying at max I'll drink 10 beers in a night, but often times I only have some beer with dinner, or when I'm watching TV. I'm a beer connoisseur. I like to drink all different kinds of beer for their flavor, not to get drunk. By the way, check out Leinenkugel's Fireside Nut Brown. It's a seasonal brew they have out right now, and it's orgasmic...
Oh, and about quitting weed whenever I want... how do you think I got into the military in the first place? I didn't start smoking weed after I joined. I quit before I joined and my duration in because I knew I couldn't have my cake and eat it too. It wasn't even an issue to stop. I just up and said, "I'm going to stop smoking weed." I was surrounded by it several times after I joined, and never once did I even come close to smoking. Because weed is not addictive like most other drugs out there, it's a lot more difficult to abuse it. If you aren't abusing the drug, then you don't have a drug problem. I'm not replacing one drug with another, just one herb makes me less motivated to drink alcohol.

I'm on the fence for passing it for medical reasons. Always have been. If someone needs it for a sickness with severe pain, etc, I understand that and really don't have an issue with that.
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However, as I'm reading these posts from many of the supporters, there is one common factor. You all say you smoke pot because it cured you from drinking. So essentially, one drug to another regardless of which one is worse. To me, that's not a medical reason. Some of you have even gone as far to say it lessened the amount you drink each week, yet that current amount is still WAY too much. So now you have two drug addictions.

copperguy,
You and I were on the same page there, but you were quicker to the draw ;-). Very nice.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a...
There's my source, so nobody cries faux. Hey, I don't even smoke marijuana to curb my alcohol drinking, but I'll tell you what... I was drinking 3-5 times a week, anywhere from 5-20 beers every time I drank (usually just 20 beers twice a week though, not so bad for my liver, right?) As soon as I started smoking weed, I've noticed my drinking go down to 2-3 times a week, 3-10 beers each time. I'm not even trying to necessarily slow down or stop my drinking (though I recognized that eventually I'd have to slow down), and it's already doing it for me! The results are undeniable.

cured me too kid!!!!!!!

Straight from the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act).
Use of legal drugs. If an employee is taking prescription medication or over-the-counter drugs to treat a disability, you may have to accommodate that employee's use of drugs and the side effects that the drugs have on the employee. However, you do not have to accommodate legal drug use if you cannot find a reasonable accommodation.
°
Basically, since smoking pot doesn't put you in a wheel chair, automatic doors, ramps, and elevators will not be required to be installed in the work place. Depending on the person's medical condition, they may not even be using their LEGAL DRUG during the work day at all. In this event, NO ACCOMMODATIONS would have to be made. The employer can only refuse to hire if they have to make unreasonable accommodations, which means if they don't hire you because you popped positive for prescription marijuana, then it's discrimination.

To all of you conservatives go live in your boxes and wait for another marijuana story so you can shed some light on the whole medical marijuana situation or better yet go and sit at your neighborhood bar and get drunk because its legal or better yet go and smoke a joint and then maybe you can pull that corn cob out of your butts. If you have never smoked marijuana just shut up and quit giving your opinions its tiring because your never going to think outside of your boxes and thats sad for you, GOOD-DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As to getting fired for using marijuana medicinally...has anyone heard of the Americans with Disabilities Act? If your employer is aware that you have a medical condition for which marijuana is lawfully prescribed, then they will not be allowed to terminate your employment based on that fact. In order to terminate such an employee, the employer will have to provide resonable accommodation to the worker. That's not carte blanche, but the employer will have to show that the employee cannot perform the job safely, even with reasonable accommodation.

amen robmarley. marijuana CURED me of my alcoholism. not medicine?? please....

guitrguy , Now weed is a cure ? Dang ! The last one you smoked was clearly way to fat !

My feeling on it is this: If someone is undergoing radical chemo treatment, chances are they may not be working at all. If that is the case, I don't see why they can't get a script for mj to (at least) give them an appetite. I hate to see people in agony and if this can help them, then I'm for it. JMO

you people that have never smoked marijuana how can you even comment on the subject? listen we all have our drug of choice thats everybody, most everybody is drinking soda and coffee, news flash it's a drug! if marijuana is passed as a prescribed drug you cant get fired because it will be legal isnt that a no brainer? and to all of you alchoholics it can cure you to and with no hangover.

And it should be legalized for recreational purposes too!

Alcohol is so much more harmful that marijuana!

Weed helps me sleep.
Weed helps me eat.
Weed helps with my anxiety.

WEED IS MY MEDICINE!

your words 'for the very few who actually use it medicinally, great'...but medical marijuana is a ruse??

where did you go to medical school at booch??

it's the calling it "medical" that is the ruse.
y'all just want to get stoned.
"medical" has nothing to do with it.

So when's this bill gonna get passsed?

I want to be able to get my weed from a doctor/store instead of giving my money to shady drug dealers who charge rediculous prices...

creature: have you ever smoked marijuana?? not all jobs require a drug test for employment. im gainfully employed. there are estimated 20 million annual smokers. you think they are all unemployed?? drug tests can be passed, i could pass a drug test with 24 hours notice, and my beautiful hair is about 80% thc:) i dont mean to scare those of you who have no idea about how strong the marijuana culture is, but we are everywhere. they dont tell joe public cuz joe public will judge them. they tell me:) mostly cuz i tell them:) trust me creature, maybe you are correct and an employer will still be able to fire someone for using a dr prescribed medicine, the dieing patients arent usually in the work force anyways, and those of us who have non fatal ailments who benefit from pot and will be able to grow/smoke marijuana LEGALLY are passing drug tests and working our 40+ already.

lets see, we've done this list on here before...but just a few that have apparently passed drug tests to become employed...or not...assistant district attorney of a nearby county, college professor, business owner, mechanic, teachers, nurses....

hmmm hospice use. I thought that they already have that approved by the FDA as Marinol... yeah they do. Next summer stay tuned for Bill and Teds excellent adventures in medicinal marijuana HEY DUDE!

Kid you are wrong regarding employment. Wisconsin law will not protect the pot smoker no matter what reason or excuse they claim for using MJ. Any employer can fire you for any reason they choose. You may be able to collect UC if the reason for termination was not due to misconduct but saying you failed a drug test won't help you any and will 100% keep you from getting hired again. Not a single company will ever hire a person that is using MJ. Safety concerns, Higher Health Insurance premiums for the company, Productivity issues, Attendance issues and so on. The only exception I can see for it would be someone under Hospice care who's going to die soon and they need it for comfort. Otherwise MJ has no legitimate uses. As another person posted smoke Cheech and let your job be taken away by a non smoker. So I agree that it will be a win win for the majority. It will be much easier to "weed out" the losers. Johnny law will still arrest you for DUI and will have the proof with your new ID.

For all yhose who say its about time must be potheads themselfs.If your a pothead you should really get a life and leave it for the ones who really need it .

All your potheads are going to think of anything they can to get there hands on it now .Some doctor is going to mess up and give it to someone who really dont need it.And for those who have caregivers who do it will share then the one who really need it isnt really getting what they need because the othe person isnt going to care as long as they get what there want.And yes i know a few caregivers like that.

uh..I forgot what I was gonna say..

It's about time!

NORMLNate: I'm sorry; I goofed in my previous comment. It was the Wisconsin Medical Association and the information was on WKOW (Channel 27 out of Madison).

booch. how is it being called medical a ruse?? you even acknowledge there are people who use it medicinally. wouldnt that make it medical?? and to the rest of your post...you are absolutely correct. and then, like ca, once people realize that society doesnt crumble when people smoke pot the discussion for full on legalization/taxation/regulation begins. woo hoo.

calling it "medical" is a ruse.
for the very few who actually use it medicinally, great. most of the others will claim whatever it is that ails them. and just like out in CA, some doc somewhere will prescribe it.

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php please take 60 seconds to view this link

Kid I'll be sending my handwritten letter out within the next few days. My mother is a hospice care social worker and though she hates "drugs" she fully supports medical use. Besides the fact that it should be legal regaurdless, terminal patients should choose what medication they use. I think we as a society owe them that (many who are veterans.)

It's a start.

First I would like to say no matter what they decide people are going to on both sides of the fence on this topic. Second I would use it instead of some of the harder prescription drugs on the market.

plus you HAVE to highlight what sarahb said 'street dealers of the stuff are hard to locate anymore'. EXACTLY what weve been saying about complete legalization. take away the profit you take away the motive.

There aren't a lot of cons to having medical marijuana at all. The only way you might be able to find a con is to say people are getting medical marijuana cards for false reasons, however, I would argue that marijuana is not such a dangerous drug anyways. It should be along the same lines of tobacco or alcohol, but also with medical benefits. Also, bobb, I used to live in Southern California. There aren't vending machines for medical marijuana on every corner like there are candy machines everywhere else in the world. It's actually not easy to find an automatic marijuana dispensary unless you know where to look, and of course not just anyone can walk up with $20 and get a bag.

To SarahB1

Your first point: California has medical marijuana and, according to a usually liberal-oriented columnist in last week's Time magazine, so many Californians are prescribed the stuff for so many "ailments" that street dealers of the stuff are hard to locate anymore. Can that many residents be ill?

CA law is very relaxed as far as who is covered by the bill. Although the fact is that cannabis can provide relief from hundreds or maybe thousands of illnesses, syndromes or ailments. (See Granny Storm Crow's list: http://www.greenpassion.org/f11/granny-s...)

That being said, the wording is very strict in the Wisconsin bill:

1) cancer, glaucoma, AIDS, a positive HIV test, Crohn’s disease, a Hepatitis C virus infection, Alzheimer’s disease, Amytrophic Lateral Sclerosis, nail patella syndrome, Ehlers−Danlos Syndrome, post−traumatic stress disorder, or the treatment of these
conditions;

2) a chronic or debilitating disease or medical condition, or the treatment of such a disease or condition, that causes wasting away, severe pain, severe nausea, seizures, or severe and persistent muscle spasms; or

3) any other medical condition
or treatment for a medical condition designated as a debilitating medical condition or treatment in rules promulgated by the Department of Health Services (DHS).

Your second point: The American Medical Association (according to Channel 15 out of Madison) is against this legislation in Wisconsin.

In looking, I don't see anything on Channel 15 about the AMA saying that, maybe it was incorrect. On November 10th, the American Medical Association voted to urge the federal government to revisit the classification of marijuana as a Schedule I drug. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/11/...

Pricewars? That's an interesting concept. Takes me back to the gas wars of the sixties and seventies.

There will probably be price wars betweens the cartels and the pharmacies.

wow - cool

Haven't formed an opinion on this issue yet. However, two points that keep coming to mind are: 1.) California has medical marijuana and, according to a usually liberal-oriented columnist in last week's Time magazine, so many Californians are prescribed the stuff for so many "ailments" that street dealers of the stuff are hard to locate anymore. Can that many residents be ill? 2.) The American Medical Association (according to Channel 15 out of Madison) is against this legislation in Wisconsin.

Pros,cons are numerous on this issue.I hope If passed this
"medicine" is used as prescribed,and Wi. does'nt become like California.My Daughter lives in L.A. area and you have a hang nail you qualify for a Marajuana card. Literally machines on street corners (like soda,candy machines)for you to purchase your "medicine".

"Medical marijuana for Wisconsin?"
When I read this, I began to feel sick. I felt ill. Green with worry and all sorts of effects I can't describe. What do you say to get that perscription?"Gee dock, I don't know...lately I've been feeling really clear-headed, and energetic and focused.The other night I watched informercials, and for some reason they weren't the most AMAZING friggin' thing I've ever seen! And get this; Yesterday,I set down my keys,right?And five minutes later-I knew exactly where they were!" ---------Not my joke, but thought it would be fun to share. =)

"Sad really. All of the pot smokers who cannot live without their precious weed are now drooling over the thought of buying "Medical MJ". Get a clue people. You'll still lose your jobs if tested positive for it. So what then. Oh I forgot you're probably not working anyway."

Honestly, if this were generally true, then people who don't smoke should be pushing for it, since it'd give them the advantage anyway. It's win-win, even if you argue your point =p

its also comments like that that bring about bad karma. someday maybe you wont need to make up an illness.

creature: i think its you who needs to get a clue. pot smokers wont be able to buy medical mj just because they want to. a dr would be putting his license on the line if he gave a false script. if a dr prescribes it as medicine i dont think a failed drug test would be grounds for termination. ITS A MEDICINE.

There is no proof marijuana causes cancer Hannah, and Tylenol is FAR worse for your body than pot.

Must it always be so easy to blame someone else ?

LOVEISGOOD~Comments like that help people rationalize their argument against the support of this legislation.

Sad really. All of the pot smokers who cannot live without their precious weed are now drooling over the thought of buying "Medical MJ". Get a clue people. You'll still lose your jobs if tested positive for it. So what then. Oh I forgot you're probably not working anyway.

Some of you have never seen a person die from cancer or other horrible diseases...whatever eases their suffering, I would personally support. Less side effects I am sure from other prescription drugs. Chemo drugs are especially horrible.
My only suggestion??? No smoking near oxygen...

What illness could I fake to get medical weed ?
When that illness is cured... I will need another and another and another !!!!!!!

Congrats on getting responses, kid n kai. I sent a personal letter to Rep. Hixon, Sen. Robson, and a Senator who isn't even from my area. I got responses from all EXCEPT Sen. Robson. Granted, open government issues may not be as sexy as weed, but, still....

It about damn time

hannah: i CURRENTLY use it as medicine so i assume once a dr validates it that the medicine will continue to have the same positive effects i currently enjoy.

its the total number of even pre written letters that has the impact. at last count i was told there had been over 1300 contacts regarding medical marijuana.

i too got letters back from both sheridan/robson, form letters of course:) but sheridan did take the time to write a note thanking me for my advocacy cuz he heard that i had been there to visit his office and meet with one of his staffers.

hannah: you dont know anything about my personal life, and yer a far cry from a dr, so i think ill consult a dr about my ailments before i give up my attempt at a medical marijuana card.

MikeF,
I got a letter back from both Sheridan and Robson, and both of them personally signed the letters. I used the form thekid provides a link for. You are correct that it's less noticed. It is still noticed though. One great advantage to a pre-written form.. even if someone with poor grammar supports the bill, they can still relay their support through a well written document. The support letter is quite clear, and that can makes things easier on the representative at least.
°
And Hannah, I guarantee thekid still gets the munchies every time he sparks up ;-). Marijuana isn't like designer drugs.

Whenever I'm high on reefer, reading Sanskrit is really a hoot.

Medical Mary Jane doesn't ease the pain of stupidity.

Just a tidbit of info on contacting your legislators... A personally written message will have more impact than a mass mailed form letter. It only takes a few seconds to plug your info into a webform and click send and the staffers who screen the mail know this and only make a tick mark for or against on the tally sheet. A personal message will stand out and be noticed... and be more likely to be passed on to be actually read by the person who votes for or against the bill.

I think it's about time. It will be regulated, prescribed, and therefore it should be used by the patients it will help.

if gov doyle can assess a large enough tax on it, he'll bring it.

heres a link to auto email your reps and tell them you support medical marijuana and you hope they do the same.

http://capwiz.com/norml2/issues/alert/?a...

support medical marijuana before you need medical marijuana...

darn thekid beat me

haha. excellent point idratherbeboating. almost certain i will qualify for a medical marijuana card. maybe not right away, cuz the bills for those that are dieing or dealing with PTSD, but more ailments will be added when people see how affective the law is. im even more certain that i will be a licensed caregiver if at all possible, allowing me to grow marijuana for myself and any other patients who require my services:)

this is a great law to pass though. there are people currently dieing whose lives could be improved by simply smoking some pot. to deny those people that medicine should be criminal, not the possession of the medicine.

medical pot being legal still doesn't cover the Kid.....I think that's up to the Kid's doctor.

I've already sent a letter of support to Sheridan and Robson.
The gazette is, once again, really slow to get this article out... that's okay though. Medical marijuana is coming to Wisconsin.

about time.