You are so right about the good that has been accomplished by unions. GM was the gold standard by which all wages were measured in this area. The loss of this standard will be felt by all. Unions were responsible for many of the safety standards and benefits that were incorporated to some extent into all employment. The problem is that at some point it may have become a case of too much of a good thing being bad for everyone.

"we all" would include me, genius. I guess the separatist manifesto you follow still puts Americans and humans into your neatly separated groups. I am not what you paint as a die hard Union goon, but I do understand the role of unions in labor, it's past and presence, and the good it has done for the economy for all workers, whether they be in a Union or just reap benefits from the competitive forces.

Chad reread my post I never said YOU have toys. I guess the selective listening the Union taught you is still affecting you.

annonymoose - wrong again. I don't even have "big toys".

sannio - no, it's just hard to express every point in a small amount of space. I was just saying to not let your anger at what happened turn you away from good products made by good people. I can argue that false argument about quality all day, as GM has won many awards. GM has the most productive plants in the US. You just don't hear about the good things about GM in the press.

GM stock is up 18% today? I'll never understand the market...

sannio if you haven't figured it out yet Chad is only out for himself and his union buddies. He doesn't think the american people should have free choice to purchase what we want or need. He even thinks we all have big toys to tow.

chad_vader - Are you saying I should base my purchase on retaining jobs in the USA, rather than value and performance? At present my two vehicles are GM products purchased locally.

And how many more times is the government going to "help them up"? G.M. stumbled and they got 19.4 billion, now they are "down" and they get 30 billion more?

That's right SarahB1! sannio - If you want to see more people laid off, the country take a step backwards economically, and allow foriegn companies to be in charge of the US manufacturing, then not supporting a US company is the thing to do. We all lost something in this deal, some more than others. But do you keep kicking a person while they are down or do you help them up, tell them they learned a lesson, and hope they get add something to society?

I don't know, sannio. However, I've read lots of articles stating that now is the time to buy if one wants the best deal. Stock losses are part of the risk one takes whenever one purchases stock; friends get laid off from everywhere, and some "experts" tell me GM is doing the right thing by filing for bankrupcy today.

I wonder what my chances are of buying a new GM vehicle after personally losing thousands in GM stock, seeing friends laid off, and the company going bankrupt?

Red said>>It took a World War to get us out the last depression. I sure hope it won't take another world war to get us out of this one.<<

If you think this is a Depression remotely comparable to the `30s you are misinformed. Badly.

As of 0700, all of us own GM.

Rick Wagoner was forced out because he was opposed to bankruptcy. The federal bailout was to give them time to prepare a fast-in-fast-out bankruptcy, and the taxpayers do receive equity in the form of GM stock. Yes, it is a nationalization in all but name.
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It may not be ideal, but neither would be every last GM employee out of a job. There would be Janesvilles across the country, particularly in a few states like Michigan and Indiana.
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If it works, the stock will be sold back to the public at some point.

If it's true, it doesn't matter who or if anyone said it.

Rick Wagoner is no longer an employee of GM, so what he said weeks or months ago means nothing today.

Take the money and run...

I thought Rick Wagoner said "bankruptcy is not an option" - no one will buy cars from a bankrupt auto company. For the millions of auto workers and their suppliers who will now be out of work just tell your creditors that "bankruptcy is not an option"! It took a World War to get us out the last depression. I sure hope it won't take another world war to get us out of this one.

Perhaps they could have prepared without taxpayer funding being wasted first.