I can't go into specifics, but the short version is that this plant is un-usable for purely logistical reasons. The biggest problem is that the power plant is on the wrong side of the building. There is no way to remodel it without tearing it down and starting over, and doing that would open environmental issues that would run into the billions to remedy.
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Another issue is the paint shop. It is completely outdated, out of compliance, etc. They've gotten by this long on a wing and a prayer, but to retool the paint shop alone would cost a minimum of 500 million dollars (that is not a number I just made up, it is from GM's own estimates).
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Janesville said they could retool to build conversion vans for 100 million, and be ready in 10 weeks. That was true, but only as a hail-marry, short term fix. That doesn't address any of the issues that need to be dealt with in order to make this plant viable in the long term. That just meant they could squeeze a couple more years out of the plant if GM was willing to throw them a bone. Unfortunately, the plant is not in that condition anymore- the infrastructure has been gutted, anything of value is gone or spoken for already.
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There is zero incentive or opportunity for GM to do anything other than what they're doing already: salvage what they can, sell off anything else of value for cash, make sure there are no immediate health or environmental risks (basically get rid of any liquids in the plant), lock the doors and walk away. The plant will sit, "idle" until it either falls down on it's own, or some government agency condemns it and knocks it down themselves (making them responsible for the costly clean-up).
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Like it or not, the plant is going to be a dead, rotting corpse in the center of this city for the foreseeable future. I can't cite my source(s), but they are management level, reliable sources. This really has nothing to do with how GM "feels" about Janesville, or what anyone wants one way or the other, including Obama. These are simply the facts. The plant is 'idle' and not 'closed' because if it's only idle they don't have to do nearly as much work to decommission it. They are not spending one cent they absolutely have to on this plant. They are literally going to lock the doors and walk away.

the gm workers who worked threre still make thier some wage and the new hires make $14 from what I heard

Detroito: I know that. But, my question was more about the people who worked for GM for years and years but didn't take a buyout or retirement package. Are they rehired at the new rate before other applicants? Or do they have their named placed in the applicant pool just like everyone else with no preferrential treatment?

916WI: I don't drive a minivan and I don't eat quarter pounders with cheese. No apologies needed.
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PS-The new pay scale, from my understanding, is the wave of the future. Whether GM restarts this plant or not, my question is still valid...how will they implement that new scale??
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I'm staying home today. So, please, go have a few beers to calm your angst.... And maybe I'm the one who should "dumb it down" for you: it is obvious abstract ideas are well beyond your elementary comprehension.

the pay scale for gm workers is if you are a now hire you make $14 an hour if not if you already work there

Lawyers and Unions have hurt this country to the point that the average citizen is unable to survive. Why? Because starting back in the 80's lawyer started looking for ways to make more money so they contacted all people who had accidents and incidents and said they could get them millions in damage. The citizens of this country ate that up what happened. The lawyers where right they did get the millions. Now all companies have to pay high premiums and add that cost to every nut and bolt that is produced. Then the union started back in 70's striking for higher wages and concessions. They won and again the cost was built into economy. So the average citizen today is paying for all this and in most cases unable to survive. They end up on help from our government to supplement there income. And everyone wonders what happen today.

So if a scheme to build small cars in Janesville comes to be, I am wondering once again how a national population basically making part-time, seven dollars an hour wages will buy them?
I believe it speaks to why these companies are in trouble to begin with. The argument always focuses on car construction quality and union wages. BUT, I don't care how well a car is built, how much mileage it gets, how much unions give up, and how much money the government dumps in, if the population at large has no means or jobs, the cars can not be readily purchased.
The continuing saga of the U.S. auto makers and our own chapter here in Janesville, speaks to a national schizophrenia that has become fatiguing to even follow. It has also become dangerous for our wellbeing as a sovereign nation. As we speak, General Motors is strolling over to bankruptcy court (the once largest company on earth - basically America's industrial flagship). By the end of the day we could be at war with North Korea - it is unlikely we could quickly build military vehicles in our dismantled auto industry to facilitate a third war now if we had to. Maybe China could build them for us - oh, right, China is buds with North Korea. This whole drama now invokes that lame adage that invaded our language a few years ago - “whatever.”
Bob Keith
cooldadiomedia.com

There are several factors to consider, but lets just say for arguments sake the GM reopens Janesville. First off, the new wage is about 14 bucks and hour and the benefits have been cut in half. Granted, around here that is still good and I wouldn't turn it down. However, regardless of GM, Janesville still needs to find alternatives. The hay days of 29 dollars an hour plus the best benefits in the state are over regardless. Moreover, there are numerous plants that have been idled and or closed that are in much better condition and in more employer friendly regions of the country. This is not to say there is NO hope, but I certainly wouldn't bet the farm on it. One thing is certain, these stories spark a lot of activity on the Gazettextra web site.

Here is the website for the GM Janesville auction. http://www.maynards.com/?section_id=465&...

momof5-no need for name calling:) You're absolutely right with regards to how I feel--I would rather be on the road with someone who has had a couple of beers rather than with one of these "momof5"s who is on their cell phone, yelling at their 5 kids and stuffing a quarter pounder w/ cheese into their mouth all at the same time while driving down I90 in her minivan:) You are the one who asked the question of how the the employment/pay situation would play out in a previous post.... "Will they get first dibs on the "new" jobs? At the new 3-tier rate? At the previous hourly wage?" All I was doing was referencing your clueless post. Sorry if I couldn't make it easier to understand for you--I'll try and "dumb it down" for you next time.......No thanks needed:)

Opinionsforfree, Janesville does not need false hope, and any speculation that GM or OM (Obama Motors) will spend the extra money required to retool the plant for a new vehicle and make the oldest facility energy efficient to meet the current administration's "green standards" is childishly unrealistic.
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The other automotive companies will take of some of the slack, and the market will remain shrunken for a decade due to the economy. A lot of people have had their retirement funding depleted by up to 40% and they won't be buying a new car any time soon. The more fortunate will be very cautious about spending on new vehicles as well. We have a glut of used vehicles in this country and it will be a long time before that surplus is drawn down.

How they will adjust the payscale? That has already been decided you bafoon! And it wasn't management who decided it.

I never commented on your driving record. I was commenting on your apparent lack of regard for others and opinion that it is ok to drive your bike after you've had a few beers because you feel you are more aware of your surroundings. Maybe in reality...but here in fantasyland, that isn't how it usually happens. And, really, anyone who feels that way will never been taken seriously in my book.

momof5......Relax and try to stay on point.....I have a perfect driving record and haven't had an accident in about 20 years--so if you're using driving habits/records as a way to measure the value of an opinion, mine is better than yours:) Where you live(in fantasyland)if the .00001% chance that GM will retool the Janesville plant, keeps you speculating on what auto they will bring here, how many shifts they will run and how management will adjust the wage scale, that's fine--have fun just dreaming about that. I just think that your energy would be better spent doing other things......like dealing with reality:)

Zoom: All I'm saying is that when you remodel your house, you take out anything of value also. I'm not saying GM is opening again in Janesville. But, if one starts to connect the dots, the bigger picture will soon appear..... They have an agreement already with UAW 95 that has been said to be a template of sorts for other plants across the nation.

bobb: There is no way in hell Obama or his car czar are going to allow GM to "unidle" the Silao Mexico plant. PLUS....that plant made Suburbans/Tahoes....a duty Arlington is handling just fine on their own for the time being.

I sure hope none of you haters end up working at the "new plant" if it ever does start production back up. You all seem far to honest for that, of course!

I never said the plant was empty at this moment, but in the near future, it will be empty of anything of value. How could anyone call that "idled"?

Does anyone know what our "GM task force" has to say about this latest development?

916WI: And all of this rhetoric coming from someone who gets on his bike after having a few drinks? Sorry, but I'll pass.

You have your opinion and I have mine. And, really, THAT is the only thing that cannot be debated. The rest of "it" will always be up for debate, ridicule and interpretation. That is what humans do.

Besides, no one here on this thread has said GM IS coming back to Janesville. The article states that GM has agreed to manufacture a CAR at an idled plant. Janesville, as it so happens, has an idled GM plant. Therefore, based on that statement alone, offers some hope. No matter how dull it is, there is still a glimmer of hope above GM Janesville.

"There is a big difference in idling a plant and closing a plant completely."

Yes, there is. When was the last time you saw an "idled" plant that was completely empty? The Janesville plant is not idled. It's closed.

To use a better analogy than KFC, when you idle your engine, you aren't moving forward, but you can put it into gear and start moving quickly. The Janesville plant no longer has a running engine. It's been parted out. The fuel has been drained. Sure, someday GM could put a new engine back in it, but they'll have even more empty bodies in the junk yard by the time they have truely turned the corner.

If I was GM, I would take this opportunity to try something new. Retool, refit, rehire the employees, and open this plant. But on the following conditions: a pay rate more reasonable to what you should be paid for building that car ($15/hr minimum to $25/hr maximum), benefit package more reasonable as well, no more pension fund, all retirement funds will be through a 401k, and NO UNION.
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Now before you pro-GM people out there start commenting. Honestly think about it, do these people work any harder than anyone else doing manual labor in another factory, or construction site? NO. GM workers are the biggest whiners in the world. I wish I could bring home over $1,000 a week for physically working 30 hrs out of a 40-50 hour week.
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The automakers need to step back and really look at the costs of producing the vehicles. The price the vehicles accordingly so they sell. So that almost everyone has the opportunity to purchase it. NOT just the people making them.

Mom....comparing the retrofitting GM plant to the remodeling of a KFC on Milton Avenue....I don't even know where to start with this one! The company is bleeding out billions a quarter, more plant and dealership closures are an absolute, yet there's one blurb about the remote possibility of a new line of some subcompact being made in this country only if a certain sequence of events falls into place and all of the sudden GM is coming back to Janesville. I'm all for positive thinking, but sooner or later reality has to set in....GM took everything of value out of that plant, not because they had some secret plan of retooling it, but because they wanted to completely walk away from it. This seriously cannot be debated....We need to move on and look past GM--their relationship w/ Janesville is over--please accept this.....

I would LOVE to give them ALL to you but they're filled with all the tools my husband has. I'd be happy to park my car in there!

Hey mom, There are no more wood lockers, but a lot of steel ones left

msleo: Really? Want to get rid of any?

rockstars: That's what I thought to. But, the little disclaimer that says "not already being produced" threw me off. Maybe it will be one of the rebadged Pontiacs or Saturns?

Oh yes the dreaded lockers! I have a garage FULL of them!

Are there any lockers left? Seriously. I want some!!

GM has not said there is no hope for this plant. What they said was they will no longer be building Tahoes/Suburbans/Yukons. There is a big difference in idling a plant and closing a plant completely.
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For instance...look at the KFC on Milton Avenue. They moved out all fixtures, equipment, "blah blah blah", but yet, they aren't closed are they? Nope. They REBUILT and UPDATED their look/process/equipment/fixtures. It happens all the time, my friend. Not to mention, someone else on here (I think it was "rockstars") said that the robots are not interchangeable.
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You can take "blah blah blah" to be the official language in fantasy land...I take it to mean zip it, lock it and put it in your pocket....knucklehead! :p

and isn't an empty place easier to build up than a place full of useless junk?

woody the GM plant in Janesville is listed as idle - not "closed".

Now that G.M. is going to build again in town,maybe we can have a city wide block party to welcome them back,HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! The haters will be out in full force to jump on this band wagon,I'm sure. Let the good times roll!

ihavealife quote..."General Motors hasn't given a answer one way or another on Janesville." GM told the state they where closing it. They laid the people off. They hauled the equipment out. They sold the benches, cabinets, machines, and skilled trades equipment. They will soon have a completely empty building. What are you missing?

I am glad to hear that GM is coming back to Janesville. Do we know when they will start bringing back the workers?

Ihavealife--"Blah, Blah, Blah"??? Is that the language they speak in fantasyland???:)

momof5, the Volt has already been commited to GM's Hamtramck plant. I could only see it being something that slots between the Chevy Cobalt and Malibu. And it would need an exceptional drivetrain. Possibly a hybrid but also possibly a small displacement fuel efficient car. I would be surprised if they built something Aveo sized but you never know, I guess!

Off topic, but why are none of the auto manufacturers focusing on diesel hybrid technology?! Why stop at 40 miles per gallon on diesel OR hybrid when you can surely double that by combining the technologies. It's all a matter of physics. I mean, if we can transmit radio signals from our cell phones to our cars via Bluetooth, I would think that it would be quicker to develop TANGIBLE technology.

Back on topic...

And you can't look at production numbers so much. The size of the vehicle is huge in factoring in efficiency, shifts, throughput. A small car, let's say the size of the Aveo, could be pumped out of the plant at nearly 700 units per day on one shift. Closer to 1500 on two shifts.

It's all supply vs. demand and the physical capabilities of the workforce and robotics.

FYI, I've been in truck plants that were only capable of building 200 trucks per shift.

Janesville made around 600 per shift. With their 4-10 schedule, holidays, they worked aound 185 days a year. Volt will be built in Michigan.

ihavealife--GM has given us an answer--they shut down the plant and walked away from it--it's over. The sooner people come to terms with this, the better off everyone will be.

Rockstars: I think I know you.

Last thing....how many SUVs did Janesville crank out on a) the 2 shift/day schedule and b) the 1 shift/day schedule?
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If I'm doing the math right, 160,000 units comes down to 438 vehicles per day. I *think* this would be able to be accomplished on one shift? (But, I also didn't account for days off, shut down, holidays, etc..,)
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And, is it just me or do other think the product they are thinking of is the Volt?? Not already produced and 160,000 units.... Sounds like a Volt to me!

ihavealife, no, I understand the direction that they are taking as far as having it all under one roof. I may be wrong here, but I'm assuming that you are referring to employee functions such as sequencing, seats, etc. Also, I'm pretty sure you used them for reference but the wages you listed are wrong. From what I understand, it will be two-tier wages, not three, with the lowest paid employees making just over $14 per hour.

On to what you suggested about having it all under one roof... IF you were referring to all manufacturing functions, that is simply impossible. Speaking of stamping, there are far too many components that would need to be stamped out for them all to be made at Janesville (or any) plant. I believe the only GM plant in the US that has a satellite stamping plant is Lordstown. I've never been there, but if my time at the Chrysler plant in Belvidere (one of the most advanced auto manufacturing plants in the US) is status quo, then the only thing that a newly built satellite stamping plant will press is fenders, door skins, hoods, side apertures (both sides), trunklids/liftgates, and a few floor pan components. The rest, including brackets, door beams, window frames, the list goes one, is stamped by a specified GM (or Chrysler) stamping facility.

Red: It is pure speculation, but one could assume they auctioned off the robots, tools, etc because a) that automation is "obsolete" in the GM world (I doubt you can use a ?? Year old SUV robot to build a 2010/2011 CAR) and b) they need to create liquidity to generate the funds and approval from the car czar to go forth with this plan of unidling a plant and c) the price of scrap metal....
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In the late 70s or very early 80s, this plant was shut down to retool for the Cavalier line. Then in the late 80s or early 90s, this plant was again idled to convert the line over to build the Tahoes/Suburbans. My question: Anyone remember how long those shutdowns were? For some reason, I remember the "Cavalier" shutdown being 18 months and the "Tahoe" shudown being 9 months. Yes? No?
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And finally....let's say GM does retool this plant. Its first day of production is January 3, 2011. UEC has expired (just recently) for the previous workforce at GM-Janesville. GM has already eliminated the job banks program. What will the fate be of the "x number" of workers who didn't take a buyout or retire? Will they get first dibs on the "new" jobs? At the new 3-tier rate? At the previous hourly wage?

Not to give any false hope but if they are moving robotics out, there is a decent possibility that the plant could be prepped for a new line. A new line would likely require all new robotics. Believe it or not, but the robots that assemble the vehicles in the body shop are NOT interchangeable. It sounds like a waste of money but the robots are limited in physical capacities and are not 100% efficient and flexible, even though we would expect them to be. This is not coming from a person who thinks they know it all. I've seen it happen while working for Chrysler (as part of management, not hourly). I don't have much hope for GM coming back to Janesville but it certainly is a possibility even if they auction off the robotics.

As far as a stamping plant goes, there is the real estate available to build a stamping plant. A stamping plant is huge but you have to remember that this type of facility actually expands upward, too. A lot of the space needed is vertical space.

One thing that hurts that likelihood, though, (not including the plant's age) is that the satellite supplier (LSI) is really NOT that close to the plant. In terms of production downtime and depending on time of day or traffic, it could take 15 minutes or more (or less, really) to get parts from LSI that require a clean point or are short on the line.

Another difficulty is that the building that LSI was in is currently being renovated. So the likelihood that LSI or any other supplier will be able to use that location is very low. I'm sure Helgeson doesn't want to lease it out again to an auto supplier. I mean, it sort of left him high and dry this last year, after all.

In conclusion to my perpetually long post (LOL), a stamping plant would increase efficiency and is preferred but not necessary depending upon volume. A sequencing provider with significant warehouse space would be necessary unless it was done in house (possible with new hires making $14 per hour). Robotics, while initially expensive, are a non-issue if they are truly trying to retool Janesville. Whew. Sorry for the long post.

Zoom: look for it. Type in GM auction and click search in the top right hand corner. It said part of the agreement was they couldn't liquidate but they got the OK from the federal government.
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Garyprimer: I knew someone would do that....how did I know it would be you? LOL! And, for the record, the mini-tootsie pops are even worse! It's more like ah one. Ah CRUNCH. Lol!

momof5, Please link to the article that said GM couldn't sell any of it's assets.

Boy: Mr. Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?
Mr. Owl: A good question. Let's find out. A One... A.two-HOO...A three..
(crunch sound effect)
Mr. Owl: A Three!

Rooster; you won't have it as "easy" as your predecessors: $14/hr and no benefits for 3 years.

"And the fact that GM will do so at an idled plant where the local union has ratified a competitive operating agreement" - Gee, it seems to me that maybe they are throwing this crumb out there so there will be incentive to ratify the agreement. No promises, just a tiny shred of desperate hope, enough to vote for something you might not otherwise.

I wish all you pessimists would get jobs. This town needs hope of any sort. Have any of driven around Janesville and looked at what a dump it is. I have lived here my whole life and have not seen this town in such bad shape. Even though I hate GM and the GMers that worked there. I hope the plant openes and everyone can go back to work and lead normal lives.

So PB594, 916WI, janesvillecomments you are all tools and shouldn't own a computer.

momof5 is the only one with an intelligent post so far on this blog

when can i apply?

Never say never.... While I agree the chances are slim, they may not be as slim as "we" think. For instance: In an article last weekend, it stated GM was told they could not sell, liquidate or auction off any assets (that were "securing" the bailout funds). However, they were given permission to dismantle and auction off robotics and other automation from THIS plant. Could it be because those automation tools will have no home in Arlington (the other plant currently making Tahoes/Suburbans)? Could it be to create some liquidity so they are able to go forth with plans to retool this plant for a car?

One thing is absolutely certain: Janesville will never be the home of the Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon again. The rest, however, is about as certain as how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop!

If there were any hope for the Janesville plant then why did GM auction off the equipment last week in an on-line auction. It will be interesting to see what the looming bankruptcy does to retiree health care and pensions. There are sure to be a lot of new nursing students at Blackhawk Tech.

/facepalm

Does this mean that Obama is coming back to Janesville?

GM sure is addictive. These people who think GM will come back are just snorting cocaine from the carpet.

One last false hope for Janesville about the GM plant. Sorry, but the facilities are TOO OLD.

No chance....please let it go--it's over......

In another article, the need of a stamping plant is also mentioned, logisticly leaving Janesville out of the running. Is there not enough property to sustain a stamping facility along with a compact car line at the current site making it even more efficient?