So, the Republicans waste energy figuring out ways to make government an expensive failure, so they can shut it down? Well Democrats mustn't waste any energy on figuring as they create expensive failure after failure, the stimulus package just the latest in a long historical line of money squandering failures. The stimulus package was suppose to create millions of jobs quickly. Remember how "urgent" it was to get the thing passed that there was just no time to even read the bill before it became law? And now we are still losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month with even more "stimulus" possibly on the way! If this rail line ever gets built, it will cost more than expected, it will serve fewer than projected and it will be expensive to run and maintain, just like every other publicly funded rail system (light or heavy)has historically been. It will have been cheaper to have the government buy a new car for each regular rider provided with free gas than than to build and run Gov. Doyle's choo choo train. Not that I have any confidence in Gov. Doyle's ability to do the things he says he'll do. He's always been long on promise and short on delivery. Remember 7 years ago when he swept to electoral victory winning his first term as Governor on the strength of a promise to fix the state budget deficit? Since then, the deficit has grown every year and the Governor and the legislature have to "fix' it every few months taking (some say stealing) money from funds set aside for malpractice payments to patients and the transportation fund to mention just 2. So this rail line may never actually happen, but if it does, expect yet another expensive failure.

Doyle Quixote, tilting at windmills. I hope he keeps the receipts!

This assembly facility could be located just about anywhere there is rail service, so it doesn't matter that it isn't on the actual corridor. Regardless, it's a big coup that Doyle made this deal with Talgo *for Wisconsin*, and people should recognize that. It won't be in Illinois. Hopefully, this facility just being operational (they already have one in Seattle) will spur more business for Talgo in the US.
.
ja67, the Lake Country Limited wasn't even a passenger *train*, just a passenger car tacked onto a daily freight run. The state anticipated that it would be used by GM to ferry people and priority goods, but that did not happen.
.
I'm a big train booster, but realistically, Janesville is not a robust destination for the level of investment necessary. Perhaps a Madison-Janesville-Beloit-Rockford light rail corridor could be tied into the high-speed network someday, though.

Why not have a high speed train to Janesville? We did have a passenger train when former Gov. Thompson was in office. But it was not high speed. Had to use rails that were designed for frieght trains. I know that the passenger train never reach speed above 45 mph because the condition of the rails. Also the frieght trains has the right-of-way over passenger trains. Passenger train to Chicago lasted for about a year, which was a round trip.

I don't see much downside for high speed rail. The initial cost are high, but the long term benefits outweigh the cost.

The new assembly will supply train cars throughout the midwest, not just the Chicago-Madison-Milwaukee line.

And there is no logical or monetary reason to located said facility so far from the line as Janesville. Empty GM plant or not.

Antonio Perez, chief executive officer and president of Talgo Inc., the company's U.S. subsidiary, said it has scouted locations in Janesville and Milwaukee.

The locations of the assembly and maintenance facilities have not yet been determined, but are likely to be in south central or southeastern Wisconsin. Together, the assembly and maintenance facilities are expected to create about 80 jobs for Wisconsin workers, with the potential for more jobs as operations grow.

Governor Jim Doyle today announced an agreement with the Spanish train manufacturer Talgo to put two Talgo train sets into service in Wisconsin and to establish new assembly and maintenance facilities in the state. The rail car assembly plant will support the delivery of Talgo trains throughout the country.

hometown:
ok -- no prob. but it's only a handful of people who would work in chicago and live in janesville.
frankly, i don't feel like i should be subsidizing that trip -- and, unfortunately, i will.

I don't live in Chicago, either. That's the point. :) I can work there while living here.

hometown:
we don't live in chicago.
and the demand for a rail line from madison ti mke to chicago will be woefull.
if we had the population, traffic nightmares and acreage of the chicago metro area, i would go along with a train 100%.

we don't. it will be an albatross around the taxpayers necks.

booch, I'm not sure where you get the idea that no one would ride it (if actually designed with commuters and passengers in mind). The Chicago metra is so much in demand that there aren't enough places at night to store all of the train cars needed to transport the number of people who ride during the day. I ride at slightly off-peak times and the trains I ride are always packed to standing-room-only capacity. Add in the commuting traffic headed to Madison and Milwaukee (after all, Janesville is quickly becoming a "bedroom community" for these cities), and I'm betting the new passenger lines would be packed!

The Janesville line failed before because it took more than three hours each way, and there was only one train in the morning (left at 6 and got you down-town after 9) and one at night (left after 8 in Chicago, getting you back to Janesville after 11). No commuter could reasonably use that. Plus, it was $22 each way--substantially more than double the cost of the metra.

We need an updated rail system in this country so bad, and I hope this goes through, I probably wont see it, I grew up in Milton Jct in the early 30's and we had at least 16 trains in and out of there everyday, I remember those big steam engines coming through and if they did not stop the station agent would put a msg on a pole with a loop on it and the engineer would put his arm out the cab and snatch it, oh well for the good old day.

booch11, none of the projects here is light rail, which is generally akin to an urban trolley. Metra is heavy rail. Amtrak is heavy rail. The corridor Doyle is supporting is high-speed heavy rail. Light rail would, however, be a choice for the Dane County commuter rail under study.
.
High-speed rail has been successful in every country in which it has been built. It is especially well-suited for distances such as Milwaukee-Chicago, where the logistics and expense of plane travel are generally higher. (France's TGV has all but eliminated city-to-city air travel within France.) There is every reason to believe that this will be successful in the United States as well.
.
Amtrak has limitations. It runs on freight lines that it does not own. These lines have grade crossings. It cannot generally exceed 70mph even when it can geographically achieve that speed. The business and commuter traffic does not use Amtrak for this reason -- it's just as fast to go by car, and then when you get there, you have your car. As such Amtrak attracts mostly pleasure cruisers and only runs enough trains for them. But high-speed rail will be on dedicated corridors with no grade crossings and no shared service. It will slice the travel time by half or more, making it competitive -- something Amtrak does not have.
.
The Janesville experiment was just tacking a passenger car onto a freight train. The schedule was completely beholden to the freight train's needs. There wasn't a single rail expert or enthusiast who believed it would work. It was only done because Tommy Thompson (what a nutcase) was on the Amtrak board. Did it make sense? No. Well, that must have been the appeal, because Republicans spend more energy than Alaska exports figuring out ways to make government an expensive failure, so they can shut it down.

Hummm...I know of a large empty manufacturing facility in the area and a community with laborors looking for jobs that could build and serve as a maintanance facility for these trains?
I also believe that individuals need to be open minded and change their way of transportation due to the future of our economy and our environment.
If we haven't used rail in the past we should be willing to accomodate it now! And the walk from the station to our jobs or activities could also be good for getting our sedentary society more active.

hometown_girl:
i stand corrected.
gov doyle's play will create jobs short term to build the project.
and will provide some long term government jobs (akin to homeland sec staff in airports).
however, the train will be underutilized and will need constant subsidization (all of us paying for the few who use it).
democrats have been trying to push light rail for years and every time a cost analysis comes up, they lose.
now that the party of the left has their own candy store, they can fund all their pet projects.

If the Metra were to extend into WI and connect to Madison and Milwaukee, it would be a huge deal. I've ridden the Metra into Chicago out of Harvard many times and have always been at my stop within 5 minutes of the scheduled time, except a couple times on holidays. The only issue that may come up would be cost to ride, as I believe it's about $8 each way on weekdays. The special weekend rate is a huge bargain, though, at $5 round trip all weekend, as much as you want to ride.

booch, the train maxdetail mentioned was the metra train, and NOT the Amtrak. There is a huge difference. The metra is fast, almost always on time, and a smooth ride--and yes, I take it every weekday and often on the weekends. The Amtrak rides on rented freight lines, meaning it often has to stop and idle while waiting for freight trains to pass and that it has to go at a slow speed based on the quality of the rail. The reason the line in Janesville was cancelled was because it was NOT an extension of the existing passenger lines, it also was using rented/freight track instead of the metra/Union Pacific track, and it was absurdly expensive compared to the metra with much fewer scheduled routes than the metra. Given the choice between the Janesville/slow/expensive line or driving half an hour to Harvard for the metra, people made the logical choice.

A passenger rail line would have the benefits of good track, built with passenger traffic (and not freight cargo) in mind. It would also be a great way to deal with a lot of the commuter traffic in the southern Wisconsin/northern Illinois area.

Of course you're right booch11. When I read 'stimulus money' I know it means 'money stolen from me and my kids pocket'. I don't think we can get the thieving genie back in the bottle though. So if the money is going to be spent then maybe passenger trains will take the place of gas guzzlers. Perhaps the time is right.

I'll admit I have a romantic notion of a quaint train depot and families traveling and people finding jobs outside of Janesville but gee whiz, did you have to pee in my cheerios so quickly.

Have a great day!

It's worth every penny if it can do this:
Dancing Paper Clips on Electromagnetic Train
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_qu...

Meanwhile...

The Marquette interchange cost just under a billion dollars and the new Zoo Interchange will cost approximately $2.6 billion.

From my friend, an engineer on the Zoo interchange project:

"The Marquette cost over $800 million, but was contained to mostly the core of the interchange. The Zoo involves reconstructing and widening USH 45 from Burleigh to Lincoln Avenue and IH 94 from West County Line to 70th Street. That includes the Zoo Interchange, and interchanges at STH 100, 84th Street, Greenfield Avenue, Bluemound Road/Wisconsin Avenue, North Avenue/Mayfair Road, Watertown Plank Road/Swan Boulevard, and Burleigh Street. There is a lot more lane-miles of freeway being constructed, and a lot more land acquistion."

I have extreme reservations about a high speed rail line but arguments against rail solely based on taxpayer cost are not the most persuasive. Based on the need to widen the freeways and surrounding roads, there is clearly a need for additional transportation alternatives.

From a previous post of mine:

Summary for Milwaukee-Madison corridor:

Land area
air............................ 2,560 acres
road (I-94 only)..... 2,000 acres
rail........................... 1,360 acres

Energy consumption for 1,000 round-trip passengers
jet........................ 480 MJ
road.................... 197 MJ
rail........................ 59 MJ

maxdetail,
this is not an extension of the amtrack line you rode into chicago. this is an entirely new line that will cost taxpayers millions and millions of dollars.
why did the amtrack line to janesville get canceled?
no riders.
the same will occur on this new very costly light rail system.
one other question, i know you just rode the train out of harvard -- how often have you done it?
once?

Not likely to route thru Janesville.

Last week my family took the Metrarail from Harvard to Chicago for a day trip (The Tower formerly known as 'Sears'). What a wonderful way to avoid so much traffic and hassle.

This is exciting news if we Janesvillians could catch the rail right here in the city. I'm liking this idea.