So in one breath you are criticizing our education system/teachers for wanting your kids too early
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"then turn over my offspring to someone (teachers) infinitely better equipped to actually raise them--the sooner the better, so I don't unduly influence them!"
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In the next breath you criticize teachers for the summer break.
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"I'm also told (with a straight face, mind you) at every contract negotiation that a three-month vacation every year isn't a benefit!"
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The 2.25 months (I have never had 3 months off in my 8 years) is a benefit that I am not paid for. I am contracted a certain number of days x an hourly rate (or yearly salary) and that salary is then divided over the school year or entire year. The salary for the hours I work is simply spread out over the entire year.
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I appreciate the time off and see it as an unpaid vacation.
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This vacation is when families can spend more time with their kids or find a summer program that isn't too expensive to take care of them for the summer. Probably a program that some will also complain about for having an agenda.
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One of my teacher friends once told me it was the PRIMARY reason they entered the field!
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That is sad. Unfortunately once the probation is completed that person will probably be one of those lecture, worksheet, quiz and test teachers that begins the summer vacation countdown before the students do.
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People who enter the field for the unpaid summer vacation are what is wrong with the profession. Of course every profession has its issues. Some enter a field for the money, some the benefits, some power, etc...
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Education has its issues, no doubt, but so does every other industry in the country. The reason education gets so much attention is because
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a. how important it is ( 40+ hours per week with your child)
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b. how public the negotiations are
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c. the fact that taxes fund it
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d. how public and confusing the results are
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e. how much it has changed.
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Most educated people believe "it worked for me" so why change things. The problem is everything about education has changed and teachers are doing more to reach every child in the classroom.
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Many see these efforts as dumbing down and the standard m/c tests may even back that idea up.
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My question is, when teaching US history for example, would we rather a child have memorized who the 1st 10 presidents were or would we rather them have an understanding of how elections were run, what the roles of women were at the time, how children were treated/education, etc...?

D-E-V-O, we are all Devo.

Shopierehuh
Jul 4, 2009 at 1:31 a.m.
Suggest removal Jesus! What next, grunts, growls and gestures to communicate? Reverse evolution is taking place here, leave it to the morons on the left.
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What the .... does this have to do with left v. right?

That's funny Rooster.

we had rap in my school. when we got out of line, we got rapped.

Are they also going to use Country, Blues, Folk, and Gospel music as teaching tools? Oh, and by the way, check out the definition of "marginalized" at Wikipedia.com.

Jesus! What next, grunts, growls and gestures to communicate? Reverse evolution is taking place here, leave it to the morons on the left.

brwe.....great post and sooooo true. in my opinion, seems 2 apples plus 2 apples equals 4 apples. just as 2(insert hiphop word) plus 2 of the inserted word equals 4 of that word. it's not about the word! it''s about the NUMBERS.

being that i am a 51 year old white man, i used an ebonics translator for the following:
ah thin' dis here iz uh bad idea what 'chew trippin foo'
which in proper english means, "this is a bad idea."
dig'?

Milam had a guest on last week. A retired of former state trooper who was giving lectures to students. His message was something like "It's time to pull up your pants, pull up your heads and pull up your grades" ...I thought it was a good program. I would say "It's time to pull up your pants, pull back your hood and pull up your grades" , but that's just me.

Man, I ain't try'in ta hear that!. Ain't that 'bout a b!@$h! Good lookin' out. And lets not forget the all-encompassing, "Mother f....."
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No joke, hip hop people talk like this consistently. I pay attention. People I know who listen to rap, R & B, hip hop all talk like they never got out of grade school. We are all forgetting about what goes hand-in-hand, with this entire culture of music and speech. It is a failure and should be rebuked at ever chance! Go figure 'SarahB' is for it!

I have a "little bit of creativity to keep the students motivated". A swift kick in the rear-end when they need it. Bring corporal punishment back to the schools instead. How about a conference on that?

NVgrf: Did you ever use hip-hop in your social studies classes, yo?

Whoa...let's slow down here. While I would approach this technique with caution (as I am a true fan of teaching proper and formal English), there are only 40 teachers from across NINE states attending - not even 4 teachers from EACH state will have this conference under their belts. It doesn't sound like a massive, sweeping, overriding movement. And I would be willing to bet most teachers attending work in districts with higher rates of what the article calls "marginalized" students than what Janesville has. Even with the caution I think should be taken in terms of how often or when it could be applied in the classroom, there is much to be said for a little bit of creativity to keep the students motivated...and then kill them with the basics! :)

maybe the kids are marginalized because they are part of the hip hop culture. What next? Goth in the classroom? Teachers with tattoos and piercings. All in the name of the marginalized kids. Stupid wast of money on this conference. Just my opinion, of course.

OMG!!!!! U mean no one is throwing the race card in on this one?????

Oh yeah, this should help...NOT!!!! Every hip hop club that ever existed has had problems with violence. Do we want to encourage this in our schools? What will the libs in Madison come up with next?

whythink--I, too, wish I could trust teachers more. Several of my relatives are/were teachers, & even more of my friends are/were. HOWEVER, besides the objections I've already stated, the "establishment" has made it clear that I'm nothing more to them than an unenlightened sperm donor. My job is to procreate (as long as I don't do that to the detriment of Mother Earth), then turn over my offspring to someone (teachers) infinitely better equipped to actually raise them--the sooner the better, so I don't unduly influence them! While I'm ALLOWED (so far) to provide room & board, I should let the "professionals" guide (indoctrinate) them in subjects like sex; religion; evolution; & the evils of capitalism, firearms, & the Republican party. Should I choose to interfere, they'll feel free to imply to my child that I'm too intolerant or uneducated to be taken seriously--diplomatically, of course. Though, as noted previously, I'm constantly told I'm not "sharing" enough (the definition of which I'm still awaiting) of my resources toward said indoctrination, I'm also told (with a straight face, mind you) at every contract negotiation that a three-month vacation every year isn't a benefit! One of my teacher friends once told me it was the PRIMARY reason they entered the field! Just a few reasons why I doubt I'll ever trust an NEA member.

last thing,
I entered education thinking it would be easy. Give a couple lectures, worksheets, quizzes and tests and boom, you are an educator.
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Wow was I wrong. I was overwhelmed my first two years because the expectations were/are much more than that.
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The creativity needed to be a teacher is amazing.
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During the past two years I was amazed at how great some very young teachers are. Again, I don't mean to talk down to anyone, but the knowledge and skill they have is amazing. Hip-hop can be used effectively as a tool.
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As you can tell I am very passionate about this topic, and for that reason I will stop for today. I just wish more of you would trust teachers, as professional, keep politics and money out of it for a minute, and trust that if it is more work and a waste of time and money, they won't do it.
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Why would they?
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I love being an educator because of the challenges. I wouldn't be doing it if it only involved lectures, worksheets, quizzes and tests. Too boring, too easy and not effective enough.
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Last thing, remember, we pay taxes too.

whythink...

I think You should ask that question of the teaching system. they wanted corporal punishment, not I.

they then when didn't get it, turned against parents with this crap

skyblue,
There is always room for improvement.
Education isn't and never will be a perfect science. It should always be a work in progress.
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What does child abuse have to do with this subject?
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You can discipline your child, you just can't abuse them.
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Unsure of the difference, perhaps that education wasn't as strong as you suggest.

"whythink"--You were educated well enough to become an educator yourself & to look down your nose at us poor, unimaginative rednecks (anyone who'd dare question what we're getting for our tax dollars). So why is that system now so inadequate?
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Short response to this specific topic.
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The system is getting better not worse. Again, classrooms now consist of every student, back in the day we separated the special ed. student much more than now. That is just a fact. The education is better even if the M/C tests don't show it.
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I never called anyone a redneck or unimaginative. I just know spending almost 10 years away from a classroom before entering one as a teacher I was amazed at the differences and had the same thoughts addressed on this board.
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Then, as I was taught how students learn and how these things can be used to engage all students I began to understand what my teacher friends were talking about.
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If I weren't a teacher I would have the same reaction because I wouldn't be able to imagine the ways I stated in my previous post that hip-hop could be used effectively to enhance education.
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And yes, I was educated well enough to become an educator after I finished my education license.
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Education is profession just like any others. I consider myself an expert. I have a lot more to learn and do not mean to talk down to anyone but I believe some have jumped to a conclusion very quickly without a complete understanding of what I know about education.

This is what WE get when them same idiot teachers didn't get what they wanted.... anyone remember corporal punishment?
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Parents told them NO, long ago. and since then, these same teachers have gave us, the child abuse scare if we try to discipline our children at home.
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and it seems they've been hell bent since, to churn out less educated students since.
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Why can't they just stick to reading, writing and arithmetic. they don';t need all this other junk taught in schools. WE received our education just fine. and don't need hip-hop

Again, this wouldn't be the only "teaching" going on. Hip-hop can be used as a supplemental activity. I would never suggest centering an entire semester or year long course around hip-hop.
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I never suggested anyone was a redneck so I am unsure where that came from.
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Regarding my grammar, when posting on a message board I write quickly and it is of no concern. My first-draft grammar isn't a strength of mine, especially on a message board.
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When comparing our test scores let's remember we educate EVERYONE. Students with a 4th grade reading level because of a disability might be sitting next to a future Havard scholar. Some of these other countries don't have to deal with that. I believe students gain from this, and that gain, cannot be measured on some BS standard, multiple choice test.
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Oh, and those students who don't need this, don't exist. Any student can learn something from an activity such as hip-hop, creating a poster, group work, etc...
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I believe education is more than just learning a subject matter in a book and taking a test.
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Like I was trying to say before, I use thousands of different activities during a semester and hip-hop could be ONE of those activities.
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I believe some of you are jumping to the conclusion that hip-hop will become the centerpiece of American education and every classroom, everyday it will be used to each grammar.
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Think outside the box. As a social studies teacher, I could use hip-hop when discussion culture (sociology), or when teaching about music (history), or with a current events lesson (how about a debate like this as a presentation?), or how about the economics of the music industry (including hip-hop)?
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I could do the same with the classics, classic rock, country, alternative rock, etc...
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Now, that is just social studies.
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Do any of those ideas appear to dumb anything down? Would any student be immune to needing that information?
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This is how I would invision this being presented at the conference.
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Again, another tool in the tool box for educators.
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BTW, I just finished my Master's and my entire paper was on the subject of adding music to the classroom. Like I said, I use it all the time. All different genre's...
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including hip-hop.

SarahB1--http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp Of course, they're not allowed - they don't have enough of our money! If we'd just stop being so selfish & turn our wallets inside-out, they could turn every student into a genius! Two interesting facts about public school teachers & politicians--they're never given enough of my money & they will never DEFINE "enough"!

teach them ebonics and hip hop.
then teach all the hosies how to pole dance.
only then will we compete with the japanese and the chinese.

brwe: I still say teachers know what works best with students. Unfortunately, those teachers aren't always allowed to put this knowledge to work in the classroom. Also, can you please point me in the direction of stats regarding outcomes for students who are taught at home.

Of course public school teachers know "what works & what doesn't". That's why we're usually near the bottom of the industrialized nations' "pile" when it comes to public education. That's why private schools AND home schools consistently turn out better "products". "whythink"--You were educated well enough to become an educator yourself & to look down your nose at us poor, unimaginative rednecks (anyone who'd dare question what we're getting for our tax dollars). So why is that system now so inadequate?

Whythink, from your tone I can tell I'm wasting my time, but here goes. I can't wait to see one of these singing students sit across the table in a job interview. Everyone from a McDonalds manager to Bill Gates will laugh them out of the office. Prepare students for the REAL world. Even in retail today I find myself asking cashiers etc. what they said and ask them to repeat themselves. And I don't usually point out peoples' grammar because mine is marginal, but as an educator yours could use some refreshing. Find out what the countries that have higher testing scores than us are doing, and replicate. You people are making your job tougher than it really is. Simplify. What are the students who don't NEED this crap doing while you are Hip-Hopping all over the place? You are holding them back. Thanks for saying "I have my doubts", you've allowed me some, albeit small, shred of optimism.

I think this idea may just have merit. I think teachers know what works and what doesn't. By some of the comments posted here, Shakespeare should not be allowed either. In fact, this might be one way for students to demonstrate back what they get out of classics.

rooster,
Since I am one of those "idiots" according to you I am wondering... when was the last time you stepped into a classroom?

Mr. Jackson, WHY?

ladulce
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exactly, it also doesn't state that this would be the only way a subject is taught.
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Teachers often refer to their activity list of lesson list as a tool box. This would be one more item in that tool box that could be used as needed.
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When wasn't music used in a classroom setting. Funny thing, parents of the Elvis age thought that would be the end of a decent society, then the 80's rock and GnR was destroying children and now, hip-hop is the new evil. Intersting how most wouldn't care if I used an Elvis song to introduce a lesson but back in the day the conversation might have been similar.
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Now I agree, vulgar hip-hop is a bad thing and too many young children have access to it. Then again, I think back to my listening to "Welcome to the Jungle" as an 8th grader and realize how lucky my parents were that I didn't follow the music. I would say that is just as inappropriate for an 8th grader.
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People need to take a chill and realize this is one way an educator could teach something. I just wish my teachers had been more caring about how each child learns differently and using different activities, including music, to educate me.
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Whythink, you have me utterly speechless.

dats bogus know wut I sayin

No where in this article does it state that it would be used with improper grammar. Hip hop is a beat, rhythm, style of music- just like jazz or classical. The words you put to it can be whatever one desires. I think it is a great idea- whatever helps kids remember. Think of it as an updated version of the "bones" song that we all learned.

I have my doubts but it sounds like an interesting way to engage students. Anybody see the movie "Dangerous Minds", very good example of some outside the box teaching.
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Education can be achieved many ways and perhaps this is a way to connect some students to the material being used.
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I use music all the time in my classroom...everything from Bach, Kenny G to Tupac, GnR, and the Beetles. Teaching social studies, I can introduce many topics using music.
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With any music, you have to be careful of the meaning but one thing I discovered Hip-Hop is no differnt in the message just more blunt in its language.
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Music is a great conversation starter with students.
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Let's remember, for millions of students the traditional I talk, you take notes and later a test isn't working.
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At least educators are willing to try and/or consider new methods.
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The goal is to have every student achieve and the way I was taught in the 70's-90's certainly isn't the best way to achieve that goal.
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All that said, I still have my doubts but as an educator I will try anything and everything to meet the needs of EVERY student in my classroom.

It must be really good music because they keep playing the same song over and over and over again.

I agree, how about good old fashioned dignity and discipline in the class room. I had it and it wasn't that bad. This reminds me of when California started teaching 'ebonics'. They should teach table manners and proper grammar instead!

Talk about pathetic! No wonder our youth cannot speak properly! Let us continue to lower the bar! What is this country coming to?

oh yeah, and smoke lots of dope too!

this is why our children can't spell, read or write. the idiots waste our time and their time with this garbage. and if you ask them, they will tell you that this is not only worthy, but one of the best ideas anyone has come up with since nap time in kindergarten school. idiots

You have GOT to be kidding (for lack of a better word) me!

Nothing like lowering the bar. Wisconsin educators should be proud. This is the kind of crap you're allowed to churn out when you buy the governor's seat in this state.

Obviously, because "feeling good" now takes priority over literacy!

Promoting Hip Hop's slang-riddled broken English seems more like a way to keep "marginalized" students from achieving. Why promote poor language skills?