Most certainty Mr. Levitt , city attorney and city employee’s have already spent many hours on this, so all-in-all, since he is only one person, While he is working on the alternative plan for this idea, it will result in the sacrifice of other tasks which many citizens want to have attended to. The way I see it, if Mr. Levitt has time to lavish on this sort of idea, what important matters does he handle, anyway? Maybe he just doesn’t have enough to do; since he and the city attorney already spent so many hours on this selected want for the city. Instead of what’s good for all!!!

spacejam are you related to toejam?

spacejam-Time to relax. You've made your point. Good God.

If it wasn't for the "user groups" this may have passed!!!

In my opinion this is taxation without representation!!!!

The summary is inaccurate also!!!

Community survey does not show, would you support this idea with taxpayer money!!!!!

What is the need for closed sessions?
HHHHMMMMM?

The city needs to get a better website!!!

Sorry my last post link will dial you in better

http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/weblink7/...

History can teach us a lot, Please read Background information, Closed session http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/weblink7/...

Mr. Levitt and city council, your intention is good. You should evaluate what’s good for all instead of a selected group!!!!

techguy: You have a very good point!!!"Whatever happened to City government's philosophy that ammenities like this should be funded mostly by those that use the service? I say give the money for this project to the Senior Center instead, to help restore the upper floor of their building. A limited number of us are interested in hockey, but most of us are going to live to grow old and want to use those services. Although it has been expressed that our new City Manager's passion for hockey has nothing to do with this proposal, he must realize that the previous City Manager seemed to be able to persuade the City Council to get most everything he wanted. Therefore the suspicions of intent will be automatic."

There is more unfortunate taxpayer’s in this city, than there are fortunate taxpayers!!!!

Or is this for people who do have JOBS?!!

So they can spend money on an event like this!!!

JOBS that can support a family!!!!!!

McCoshen said. “You don’t really make money in junior hockey. You gotta have greater goals than that.”
I do its called JOBS!!!!!!!

I am a supporter of Hockey & Figure Skating. I attended the Council Meeting Monday night. The people that spoke, clearly stated they were NOT opposed to Junior Hockey coming to Janesville & that it would be a good thing for Janesville. What I heard is that when all is said & done, they wanted to make sure when the improvements were made to the rink, that they were good for all the citizens of Janesville. All the negativity & anger. Those of you who criticize- have you ever been to the Ice Arena?
Of course hockey brings in more revenue duh? It is a team sport! If you go to the rink on saturdays, it is full of figure skaters as well. Attend a friday & saturday night public skate. The rink is full of kids & families from 5:45 - 10:00 p.m. Or would you rather close the rink & have your kids roaming the streets? The roller rink is gone. What else is there for kids to do on a friday night that is healthy, relatively inexpensive & family friendly?

No, you can keep it and throw it out. The tears I shed are of happiness. Ha!

spark: Would you like it back after I'm done! LOL

Let me get you all a tissue.

Here's to you staceyU2, The city is not paying a little to get more,they want to pay more and get a little.Look at the math it doesn,t equate.But then we don't have any rocket scientist on our city council nor anything close to that,Just BRAINDEAD money spenders!

what kind of cheese are you all eating with your whining?? what will happen to the land that G.M. is on? is it gonna sit there until it falls down? or will MY tax dollars have to pay for it to get torn down???

Ok, then once again for all of you against the hockey team. The ice arena needs to be updated regardless if the team comes here. Money will need to be spent to keep it running for the kids and public. That being said, we'll cast a vote for the remodeling. How will you vote for that? That's what I thought. No will still be your answer. Case closed. You don't get it.

First math problem 2 + 2 = 4 GOT IT !! NEXT PROBLEM
Architect = $29,000 PLUS
Hockey Team = $200,000 AND you MIGHT make a grand total of $14,000 to $20,000 - My business sense / cents SAYS this is a really dumb idea!

Honestly, now I know why everyone is in debt. I want it and I want it now!

I watched the city council meeting on this issue. I finally had to turn it off because I realize now Janesville is 93% winers, crybabies, and still wanna live like its 1941!!! How many of those complainers ever went to Milwaukee to watch the Brewers and Bucks?? Green Bay to watch the Packers?? Chicago to watch the Bears, White Sox or Cubs?? Beloit to see the Snappers?? I bet alot of them!! They serve BEER!!! I am sure if the Hockey team comes to town, the sellers will ask for IDs!! Little Jimmy won't be served Beer!! If I was the company wanting to bring this team in, after last night, I would tell the City Manager Thanks but No THANKS!! Keep living in your Reagan-Bush Conservative era!! Don't advance the city at the fear of hurting a few complainers, winers, and crybabies!!!

LOL

I'm experienced in many things.

Are you experianced?

spacejam-I'm not putting you or anyone else down. I just don't believe in taking certain things so personally and looking at the big picture. There's plenty of things I don't feel I should pay for, but I know they are worth it. Hell, I look at my paycheck every week and want to faint from my tax deductions. It's all good.

No its gotta go down at the ice rink. They have a bike rack out front, they need a new one of those too. Maybe spacejam can build them one so the taxpayers dont have to pay for that either.

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!!!!!!!!

spark your put-down's are old

I refuse to fight on tax payers property. We don't need that property or the school!!

Thats it, had enough. You two at the bike rack tom at 3:20, dont be late. Or your a chicken!

spacejam- I'm not giving input, I'm stating the facts. Your idea of input is making unrealistic, silly comparisons and then going off on a tangent. Your "get lost" comment is getting kind of old too. Settle down. I realize you're extremely upset about this whole hockey matter, but no need to get that worked up.

spark get lost your input is no better than mine!!!!!!!

The ideas I have proposed are "shovel ready" projects We should be able to get "BAIL-OUT" money!!!!!!!!!!!!!

spacejam- You are one depressing individual. Are you done with your temper tantrum?

Yes GM needs some fixing -up but if we do it know it won't cost as much later!

I got so excited about the idea I made some typo's

oh, and if anything needs to be fix or replced I'm sure the tax payer don't care

Better yet lets turn GM into a Olympic training center and we can ask the tax payer to foot the bill JUST THINK!!!!!

While we are on the spending spree I want a racetrack too! Lots good up-coming drivers in the area would like to be noticed and it would provide more jobs than this idea! Think of all the gas we could sell and alcohol etc....

doseman95- you are right, I went to that game. Right now the high school team has 3 talented kids that could make this local junior team. I would like to see the junior team come.

yes the rink does need upgrades it has needed them for over 20years. what we need is a new facility. within 3 years it will cost more to fix what is wrong with the rink. start from the ground up. then you will be able to build to suit. better locker rooms, better seating and even a press box,and even a beer garden for those that wish to have a beverage. maybe the local cable could even broadcast the games. we need 2 sheets of ice with the amount of kids that are skating nowadays. hockey in rockford was almost nothing. since the icehogs came in 10 years ago they have grown to hundreds of kids playing, and have 2 rinks. the icehogs gave back to the community which i am sure is something this jr team could also do. turn the old rink into a rec center for teens. hold indoor soccer or even roller hockey leagues down there. ya it may be a burden for some of you but think about our KIDS and their KIDS.

Two years ago this very rink in Janesville hosted a CSHL(a close cousin to the NAHL) game. The place was packed to watch a local young man, who came up thru the ranks of youth hockey in Janesville, play for the Dubuque Thunderbirds of the CSHL. We served beer in an enclosed beer garden, and had no problems. It can be done. It was a huge event and well received.

SarahB, the rink has been in need of upgrading for YEARS, and to answer your question, it depends on what the contract would say. Mr 2muchtax (mr one in the same), Beloit was not approched. Please don't say they were just because you don't want this. Spacejam, I don't drink alcohol, but I do enjoy sporting events both on TV and in person. I have a soda, my friends, family, wife may have a beer. There is nothing wrong with that! Oh, and for EVERYONE, this is not "youth hockey". That is completely seperate from this Jr level of hockey. If the beer area is not controlled well enough, then deal with it as you would a complaint about a bar. For those who have never attended a hockey game where beer is sold/consumed, please don't bash the idea. Beer gardens have been around for a long time, and lessons have been learned, Mr McCoshen and the rest of the investors know all about rinks and beer gardens, and will make sure all can be done to prevent underage people from getting into the alcohol area. Its THEIR investment TOO !!!

SarahB- What's making this all look like so much, is the fact that the city let this go on too long. They let the ice arena crumble year after year. Now that times are tough, this looks like even more. The arena could easily be rebuilt from the ground up to be honest with you. It's in that bad of shape. Is it worth all the money? To some yes, to some no. I believe the kids and the sports they play deserve to have a decent facility, otherwise the city will keep dumping money in repairs regardless. Once the work is done, the work is done and will cost less in the long run. I'm more upset this went on as long as it did.

Spark and StaceyU2 and others: My concern is financial. The city manager expects the ice arena will need $1.5 million in upgrades/repairs in the next five years. Per the proposed five-year contract with WHP, the city would be responsible for covering these costs. I understand that this work would be necessary regardless of whether a hockey franchise calls Janesville home. However, we would be legally bound to do this per the contract. Is the ice arena worth that to this city? I have no idea. I am not from Janesville originally. Please answer this question for me.

Dear councilmen,
I will be at the game every night on which the Blackhawks are not playing. You don't need to worry about supplying me with beer. I'll go for the hockey. I'll bet I won't be alone. Maybe you nimrods at City Hall have to drink beer to enjoy life, but I'll take "The Fastest Game On Ice" sober. No wonder our city is in such rough shape. Our "leaders" think beer drinking must accompany every entertainment, or it is no entertainment at all. How many beers do you dolts have before you sit down at the council meetings and come up with these muddle-headed ideas?

spacejam- Nobody wants someone to lose a loved one, but please don't stereotype everyone as beer lovers because of this.

Spacejam-Your first post asks the same question you've asked multiple times. (Answer: Taxpayers) The rest of your posts went on the alcohol subject.

All beer lovers complaining, tell your comments to the one's that have lost a loved one due to alcohol! I lost a family member because of drunk driving! Tell me I shouldn’t complain!!!! Get lost

My first post in here ask a good question in trying to make this work. please read all my posts not selected ones! have a good day!

The beer issue may not be as bad a some think it would. They are going to make efforts to keep it separated from other parts of the rink. If there is proper staffing during games there may be no problems at all.

go figure the damn figure skaters and their mothers whining!!! all they do is ruin the ice anyways!!! they should be skating down at traxler. all you whinging about the beer also...get over it!!! hey lets start shutting the taverns down at 8o'clock from now on. no beer sales on sunday's either...c'mon, you know sometimes you have to spend a little money to make money.

spacejam- By the way, in case you haven't read your own posts, you're pretty much against this whole idea regardless of the alcohol. You call it stinkin thinkin. I call it America, and this country makes a lot worse decisions than this on a daily basis. Life is too short. Get on with it.

Sorry you missed my point

Take a look at the Rock County Circut Courts it's loaded with stinkin thinkin!

spacejam- What is your point? You are grasping at straws to try and prove your point as to why we don't need this team. You're stuck on the alcohol subject. How many people drive home from restaurants, bars, concerts, city events like Traxler park, yadayadayada after having a few beers? Why don't you just ban liquor sales period in the United States.

It's called stinkin thinkin and when you add alcohol you have a lot of it!

It only takes one irresponsible person to ruin lives or programs like this!

spark: How many people do you believe drive home after having some beers at those events?

StaceyU2- It doesn't matter how well you try and explain the obvious and try and explain anything positive to certain people especially in Janesville. They won't get it and never will. Let them whine and complain while the rest of us enjoy ourselves.

spacejam-Give me a break. Have you ever gone to a sporting event before? They serve beer and major and minor games. This isn't some new idea Janesville just came up with. You people crack me up. Get over it. Good God.

Wow! Now that's a rant!

Maybe JPD could put up check points around the area to let people know we a very serious about this.

ANAL THINKING, ANAL THINKING, ANAL THINKING.! ! ! !
That's all you are thinking from,,, let's put this in perspctive...
1) Beer sales at a Youth event...NO
2) Beer Sales ONLY at a minor Hockey Game...YES
3) 14-20 thousand dollars to the city ...YES
4) New Locker rooms....YES
5) Chance for LIL Johnny to play High Caliber Hockey...YES
6) An inexpensive night out to enjoy with family and friends...YES

so it really is a no Brainer.. to go for ward with something like this... Make the investment and go with it>>>>>>
Definition of an "INVESTMENT".. Investment is defined as any use of any resources intended to increase future production output, income, or revenue... In short.. You have to Pay a little to get more... for all of you that have Stocks and Bonds.. did you get a initial return from your "INVESTMENT"???? I bet NOT... so give it a chance.. and......

With the law being .08 having one or two or three beers would put you in jeopardy driving home! Please don't tell me everyone that drinks beer would have someone else drive.!

Would it be fair if the WHP "PUT-UP" the $200,000 and have the city give them 200,000 in "rent" or ice time? I would also include the city receive a portion of concessions and or alcohol sales or advertising. This would allow the city to put that money collected away for maintenance of the rink, which will need to be done in the future? I wonder if the city has a plan for required maintenance? Let’s say the “ice freezing system” breaks down a day or two before a game! If the city couldn’t repair it before the game then what?

taxed2much- Beloit doesn't have an indoor rink. It's outside. It wouldn't work.

I just saw paytomuchtax's post.

That is too bad. Must be some devil in the details.

Also not sure why beer sales are a make or break item on this.

rabbit49
Keep thinking that way, regarding Beloit would not be a good fit. Think outside the box a little...

The Beloit rink is easier to get to off of the interstate as well.

Yes they approched Beloit and they said NO.

JUST SAY NO !

Wow, selling beer at a sporting event. There's a revelation. Did you all just crawl out from under your rock?

I totally agree with rabbit49, I hope all these people complaining do not attend any other event that sell beer where kids are attending.(brewer games,Admiral games, Packer games,during the 4th of July celebration at Traxler Park......)
They are not selling the beer to the kids!

Why would they approach Beloit....they have a winter-only rink with tarp walls. As for the roughly 15 figure skaters stopping this process, that's a joke. They are by far the smallest user group and they have never put anything back into the rink. Why are people so up in arms about beer sales? They go to Snappers and Brewers games and have beer. It's not like they're serving beer to the players on the ice!! There won't be beer sales at any time other than these Junior games....and the revenue is an important component. I'm sick of the negative loudmouths in this city!!

using the term 'selling a few beers' raises flags in my backyard. cop: "how many did you have?" response; "a few beers." think clearly. it is a youth hockey league. what kind of message are we, the taxpayers, sending to the children. statistically for some, they are probably happy to get away from a home that is drowning in a few beers.

I am speaking for myself, but has this group approached Beloit?

If not, please do so.

I really wish everyone would stop using the beer sales as a negative response.
The selling of the beer is not like they are putting a bar at the ice arena, they are simply going to sell a few beers during the junior hockey games. NOT YOUTH HOCKEY. This is typical at all junior hockey games. Why does everyone have to have such a negative outlook on everything that wants to come to Janesville no wonder this town has nothing to offer.
As far as the figure skaters having a say in the matter they have about 25% usage of the rink thier ice is used in the mornings this should have no effect on them what so ever.
They have no connection with the food sales or locker room usage.

At last nights meeting Mr. McCoshen's comments reflected that everything that could be done to keep the alcohol area separate from a non-alcohol area would be done. Ultimately though, this could be difficult simply because of the design of this particular rink. He said that there is always that chance that someone might carry a beer into a designated family area just to get to a restroom.

Might make for an interesting night.

Last time I looked there were plenty of places in Janesville to buy beer. Maybe they should start selling beer at the city council meetings. They would make money, so that should make it a good idea. ;-)

Go figure, I remember years ago someone from madison wanted to come in and build a brand new ice arena at no cost to the city. I was at the final city council meeting and 5 or 6 figure skaters came up and cried and showed off their trophys and said that if the new arena was built they would never get ice time. ( The builder was all about hockey). Turns out he was gonna build the new and the figure skaters would have the current one all to themselves.....

As for the beer sales. As with any semi-pro team they would like beer sales. I personally dont see the issue as long as guide lines are set. There needs to be a separate area that the beer is sold separate from other concessions that way duing youth and high school games the standard concessions remains and the beer is locked up. The way I see it, as long as it is regulated it will only bring more money in the rink.

i just dont understand why beer sales are so vital to a MINOR hockey program. its actually pretty sick that that ends up bein a deal breaker. sick.

Delaying the decision, but approving $29k for design fees?
*
Why does government make (almost) decisions in this manner?