"Welcome to St. McDonald's, would you like some fries and hot apple pie with that salvation?"

Separation of church and state is two-way in that a government established church is prohibited.

Tax exempt status is an erosion of this principal. Someday that will erosion will be eliminated.

Cell phone towers are the least of profit-making businesses now being welcomed onto TAX FREE church properties: "Redmond eased the approval process by using his McDonald's franchise license, and has agreed to oversee the management of the business. The church spent $150,000 on equipment for the franchise, will pay any additional operational costs, and will receive 100% of the profits." http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1...

It seems the church is allowing the tower for cash. Permission from the city is needed.

--------------
Separation of church and state is both ways.

If the church benefits from its tax exempt status, that effectively means the government and the taxpayers are financing the political activities of the church. This is wrong.

The attempt by religion to insert "intelligent design" in schools is barbaric.

SarahB, cell towers receive and transmit cell phone signals. Of course, people who pray don't need cell phones to talk to god, though all they allowed to do is leave voice mail.

Good grief! All I want to know is WHAT is a cell tower? WHY would anybody, even a church, want one? If anyone can find me hiding over here in my quiet corner, I would be grateful for the explanation.

And religions have every right to influence politics in this country, it's called freedom of speech. Any other group has the opportunity to impose their will on the political process just as much as any religious entity.

Religions impose their will on the this country by way of the political process regardless of what the rules are.

It is unfair for an owner to have to pay tax on the revenue earned from having a cell tower on his building while religions are exempt from that tax.

A church leader may not be able to speak directly to their congregation during an official church function, however, they are allowed to make their personal opinion known publicly (letter to editor, etc.) without recourse...
.
"
[R]eligious leaders cannot make partisan comments in official organization publications or at official church functions... religious leaders who speak or write in their individual capacity are encouraged to clearly indicate that their comments are personal and not intended to represent the views of the organization."
.
Even further, what is the definition of "political"? Is it strictly dealing with candidates? Are referendums included? -"organizations, including churches and religious organizations, are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office... "- According to this from the IRS, they are only disallowed from speaking about particular candidates, not about issues.
.
One thing I don't agree with is churches are not required to disclose financial information to the public. This is especially and issue for those who use the name "church" for tele-evangelism and aren't required to disclose financial information.

The history of church tax exemption - http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm

bibledude, I read the OT and analyzed it. You memorized it as literal truth. That's the difference.

MiltonRedman, should a new religion get tax exempt status?

bibledude, when it comes to being NOT well read it is you. Darwin made a statement about the eye that is taken out of context by your ilk. He made that statement as lead-in to his explanation that the eye is matter of evolution -"half an eye is better than no eye."

Confirmation bias when it comes to reading and understanding is the problem of religionists.

1) I am a Christian 2) I believe in evolution and science 3) I'm not afraid of reality 4) all religious entities should get tax exempt status (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc.) 5) Churches are allowed to influence politicians all they way, however, they are not allowed to endorse specific politicians within the church.

Gazettefan- your lack of study of OT prophecy is very apparent, its hard to go into detail like I'd like on this board. Maybe when you have time compare Is. 53 written in 700 A.D. to the life of Christ. Its really best not to interject on matters you don't have a working knowledge of. You make blanket statements such as "Religion is for people who are afraid of reality." That is a subjective argument that has no basis in reality. The you say the world has no design? What about the human eye, even Darwin struggled with that reality. You do not see design in DNA? Just how complex do things have to get before you can see design???????

sluggo, why don't you explain your last comment in a little more detail.

Gazettefan.... you are wrong, the GAZETTE is for people who are afraid of reality.

I didnt realize bibledude brought it up.
Bibledude when did this article mention Obama?

Religion is for people who are afraid of reality.

no

There are powerful churches in this country always pressuring politicians for idiotic purposes.

Taxpayers should not have to subsidies the church by way of tax exempt status. upnorth...., are you in favor of tax exempt status for muslims here?

Read my posts again to get a grip on how religion damages human society.

bibledude brought him up.

upnorth.. When did this article mention Obama?

opps have the tower not have tower

I meant pro-life, NOT pro-choice!

For gods sake let the church have tower.AGIAN I ASK HOW DOES IT AFFECT YOU? Oh hold on ..IT DOES NOT!!

The church does not tell the congregation how to vote, gazfan. Why do you always have to bring up the same crap everytime you go into the "whole church" subject? It gets SOOOOOOOOO OLD. If you aren't a church member, what do you care how the funds are used etc.? It doesn't even affect you. Move on to something useful.

I don't consider Obama a Christian. It's not for me to judge, but ,I don't think a real Christian would sign a bill for pro-choice taxpayers to pay for abortions that women want to have done but cannot afford. A Christian doesn't sit in a church for 20 years and "not have a clue" about his "pastors" outrageous views. That's 2 biggies for me! The list goes on...

A religion loses its entitlement to respect when it seeks and accepts entitlement to government money (by way of tax exempt status) which comes from the taxpayers and is then used to impose its politics on everyone.

sweet....., how much respect do you have for Islam?

bibledude, all that irrationality is still there to varying degrees: Pat Robinson here: "On 911 the U.S. was punished by god for such and such." In Africa and eastern Europe the genocides are the result of christian on christian bible inspired tribalism.

I don't care if Aristole said it: The argument for a supernatural cause for the universe is not automatically allowed to abandoned itself once we get to a "cause": What caused the cause (what caused god?) ad infinitum?

So-called prophesy did not refer to the future that is our present. It referred to what was going on at the time the events happened or when the events were recorded or fabricated. All horrible events, real or fabricated, were supposed to be god's vengeance.

There is no "design". What is referred to as design is a description of a phenomenon known as natural selection.

All societies are similar because the apparent diversity (and spreading of groups) we see has only taken place in world-time in the blink of an eye. What humans basically are started with a small group -the first members of the species- not very long ago. The morality we live by today began long before Moses and the Old Testament. That morality was co-opted by the first monotheistic religion. That morality is a matter societal evolution.

Scripture is the basis for belief but it's not a good basis. It gives "supernatural" sanction to tribalistic violence. Islam came from judeo-christian scripture.

elmooso, if you are still looking for gods number, just ask bruce almighty. lol

I think people just cant understand that everyone has their own beliefs. If you could have the mentality that everyone is entitled to believe what they believe in and that we could agree to disagree on the topic, maybe we wouldnt have all this craziness. No one religion is better than the other, no person is better than the other. Why cant people understand that our faith is what we believe and just accept that we are all different?

north too funny

.....wow..tnimmo89...

gazettefan- I agree with you on this, scripture is one reason to have faith in God. Fulfilled Biblical prophecies are truly amazing. Aristotle's cosmological argument that there must be an Uncaused Cause is another (good old irrational Aristotle). The teleological argument is another, seeing design in the world and the complexity of life, DNA etc. The moral argument is another, if life is random why do societies have such similar moral codes? The ontological argument is another, but I agree with you scripture is a good reason for faith.

...wow...Janesville...

tjncj, how did you determine what was in my post? psychic powers?

Hitler was a christian who never renounced his Catholicism. He and his regime were never denounced by the pope. German christians fervently supported him. Slaughtering millions of Jews was inspired by the biblical dictates of god and the christian church.

I'm still trying to call God..anybody have his number?

bilbledude, MiltonRedman, in scripture god tells men to sell their daughters to other men. They did it because god said to do it. Scripture is the basis for believing in god.

MiltonRedman, the point is: If the revenue from the tower isn't taxed, then the government is financing the political activity of the church. It's obvious.

I watched a documentary on Hitler and the actual plots to kill him by his officers during the war. His propaganda campaign against the Jews reminded me of GF's current diatribe against everything Christian. I hope GF never becomes our furor, I don't think he could find enough furnaces or lions for all of us.

Gazettefan-you are really grasping at straws here. Yes the Mesopotamian civilization had some weird customs I'll grant you that. Your point however was that worshipping God is irrational. Believing that if there is a design there must be a designer and that that being should be worshipped is very rational. To say that the 2 billion people in this world that are Christians are irrational to me is a very arrogant assertion.

Wow, those scathing ancient Abrahamic texts which aren't even practiced in the church today! Yep, because I see tons of Christian fathers selling their daughters today. Stop at any church in Janesville, daughters are 50% off - post-valentines day sale.

The story is about a cell phone tower at a church, next thing you know a notable anti-Christian mentions they shouldn't be allowed to participate in politics (WAY off topic) and the thread spirals out of control. Another round of applause for GazetteFan hijacking a thread to further his mission against the Christian church.

bibledude, christianity is an Abrahamic religion. The scripture of Abrahamic religions has god commanding men to sell their daughters to other men.

upnorth, as individuals, OK. But misogynistic voting blocks under the guise of "pro-life" should be kept at bay.

upnorthwi- Are you including Obama is your assertion?

Gazettefan- All Religion is irrational according to you right? Are you are a naturalist? I call irrational any world view that thinks life can come from non-life, intelligence from non-intelligence, order from chaos. As for the church in question more power to them (pun intended).

See what I mean? All those Christians are so irrational they shouldn't have anything to do with politics or any decisions that would affect our daily living.

Geees big deal!

Maybe the revenue from something like this isn't tax free -even for a church. Does anyone know?

north...., wow, what a crazy outburst!!!

random....., the irrational basis for all religions alone should disqualify them from involvement in the political process.

Things are bad enough, all religions do is aggravate the instinctual tribal frictions in humans.

sluggo, gazfan opposes ANYTHING that ANY church does. I'm sure this tower will now be attracting all pedophiles to the church, so STAY away!!!!

gazettefan,I would agree with that as long as all other not for profit organization would also. not just the ones you pick.

How on earth does this affect any of you?

Churches in general shouldn't officially be allowed to insert themselves into the political process.

Who said they were involved in politics?

Yes tax them. Or at least ban them from involvement in politics.

Will I be able to call God now??

The Omen, Part V: Requiem for a Landline
.
"Father, I'm concerned about the intentions of the Church in this matter."
.
"I know, my son. Text SATAN666 - airtime free."

Then they should be taxed

Revenue for the church?