You were right, that statement was pretty blanket. I don't think, however, that it is entirely inaccurate. While Christians may not be thinking specifically about advancing their religion and/or may not be doing it with the intention of excluding religion, they very act of including an explicitly Christian tradition with no secular value is a advancement of their religion and ignores the Establishment Clause. If an board with an atheist majority was including their beliefs/traditions in a County Board, I would believe the same thing.
Earlier, I claimed that Christianity is the majority religion in the United States. Grouping all Christians is not an illogical thing to do when examining the religious demographics in America. You attempted to counter by pointing out that if you compare the number of Americans belonging to different Christian sects to general classification "Muslim," Christianity is not a majority religion. You were comparing sub-classifications of "Christian" to a general classification "Muslim." I fail to see how such a logic shows that Christianity is not the majority religion in the United States.

“Christians look to advance their religion and ignore the Constitution”
-
This is a very large blanket cast with no facts. Might there be some, yes. To say all is disingenuous. To address your question on numbers…mine were mentioned to show your comment was not entirely true. Did I mention all the sects of the Muslims? Of course not, just as I did not list all the denominations of Protestants. Question: what defense did I switch to this time; or was that another attempt at making you look like an unreasonable jerk?

You are switching to the "I know you are but what am I defense" and you wish for me to assume that you are able to debate in an adult fashion. Interesting.
Most Christians find a non-denominational prayer, even if led by a religious official of a different faith, more acceptable than a Muslim or Jewish person would find it. There is no secular purpose to a Christian prayer to appeal to atheists and the non-religious. You accuse me of being stuck on the numbers but you choose to use classifications of Christianity to create a false chasm between them. When you compare the numbers of Protestants or Catholics to Muslims, are you comparing the different sects of Islam?
The Supreme Court has determined that voluntary prayer services offered by schools before voluntary events (such as graduation). It has struck down laws requiring a moment of silence in schools due the real purpose of moments of silence, which it determined was to advance Christianity. While this scenario does not involve schools or laws, the situation is the same. Christians look to advance their religion and ignore the Constitution and the respect other belief systems deserve to do so. It is probably innocent ignorance on the part of most of the people involved but that makes it no more acceptable.
Your accusations continue to be ridiculous. I recognize your right to an opinion but think that your opinion is wrong. Unfortunately, you feel compelled to attempt to make me look like an unreasonable jerk trying to squash you right to express your opinion. I am no more guilty of doing this than you are (which is not at all). The difference is that I have the character not to accuse you of it.

Speaking of age six, making assertions on another’s belief without knowing first hand plays to the mentality of being six. The rationalization as you put it for Muslim women is a reality not a “rationalization”. What’s laughable is your statement of fighting for my rights not to be forced…who is being forced? Do you have information on people being held without their consent while a prayer was said? Were they forced to repeat a prayer they did not want? You are still way off the mark on what is government led vs. people choosing to participate. This is not-about subversion by the majority over the suppressed minority it is over simple words being spoken by people who choose to speak them. Your assertion that it was on Government time that makes it government led is ludicrous; if the meting was scheduled to begin at 7pm and a prayer was at 6:59pm would you then be happy? Christianity’s huge majority is very small; and when broken to separate Catholic from protestant Islam has a larger number. So your distraction on numbers is just that, a distraction without truth. You are free to have an opinion on what you feel is right or wrong as do the rest of us.

What a surprise, an arrogant member of the majority can't see the tyranny of the majority that these prayers represents but can rationalize away their false victimization act. I didn't realize that if someone had an honest complaint about your actions and you played the victim it was acceptable under the "you did it first" exemption. I thought that exemption was only permitted for those under the age of six.
The government is setting aside time during official government business to practice this prayer. That makes the prayer official government business. That makes it a government endorsement. If the members of the school board, government leaders, sometimes kick off the prayer, then it is government-led.
In your rationalization of forcing Muslim women to uncover their faces, you say that it is because they choose to participate in certain aspects of our current system. That rationalization for Christians not starting government meetings with group prayers is exactly the same, if they wish to participate in government meetings, then they shouldn't be allowed to start those meetings with group prayer.
Is there a secular reason for the prayer to the Christian god? Is there a non-Christian reason to pray to the Christian god? This would be a more obvious case of unconstitutionality if there were a law but that is all, more obvious. Non-Christians are being asked to passively participate or to sit out part of a government meeting. Non-Christians are left with the choice to passively participate in this Christian activity (and shut up about it), or go sit out in the hallway while others practice their religious activities (coerced exclusion of part of what should be a secular government meeting). If the tables were reversed, you would find the situation completely unacceptable. Because you are Christian and that happens to be the majority religion, you find that acceptable.
Eventually, Christianity might not be the majority religion in the United States. When that happens, the new majority will look to how Christians treated minority religions when they consider how to treat Christians. I suspect that they will use the same rationalizations that you are using to force Christians to listen to their prayers and ideas about religion. I, for one, will still be fighting for your rights not to be forced to sit there and listen to it (or go sit in the hall). Will you still find tyranny of the majority acceptable when you are in the minority?

The victimization begins with the first complainant; not those participating. Your conclusions of my beliefs are false…big surprise. The issue of freedom of religion and separation are not the same issue. Nothing in the law says a practicing Muslim women can’t leave her face covered; the issue arises when this person chooses to drive under our current system [drivers license]. Society along with Government has decided current medical practices are the best way to protect children, which may conflict with a religious choice. The issue here is different than simple prayer. Denying medical care can be declared child abuse. In the case of the ID, law enforcement has a practical assertion to identify trained and licensed individuals operate a motor vehicle. Your conclusion that a prayer is government-led is still false. People are, in this case were, praying; not the Government. Again, there still is separation. Separation disappears when Government passes a law/ordinance/bill that includes religion. Or in the more direct case of the story there would have been no separation if everyone was told they HAD to pray…big difference. Changing the child protection “law”, in your example would then be a breach of the separation clause.

But that is exactly what you are doing. You are playing the victim, claiming that being asked not to pray as a group on government time is an infringement upon your rights. Plenty of religious groups have very minor to fairly substantial limits on their Free Exercise where we deem it to be in conflict with Establishment, or for the societal good. Why should Christians be exempt from a very minor limit? Does praying before or after the meeting or to oneself really represent an insult to a major (or even minor) tenent of your/their religion?
The Amish must provide their children with a certain minimal education. Christian Scientists can’t allow their children go without life-saving medical treatment. Practioners of Santeria can’t sacrifice animals whenever and wherever they wish. Under certain circumstances, we force Muslim women to show their faces. I assume you find these infringements acceptable. Do you understand or just not care that each of these represents a much larger intrusion on the faith of the people involved than what you call an infringement? If we do call not praying as a government-led group infringement, is it unacceptable simply because it is your religion?
In this instance, no one is asking Christians not to pray during these meetings. They are simply being asked to not pray as a government-led group.
Can't you stop playing the victim and respect the belief systems and rights of others?

“Leading a prayer represents an explicit endorsement of a specific religion. This is clearly unconstitutional.”
-
This is the crux of the disagreement. A prayer performed by members endorses “their” belief to themselves not an endorsement by a government office or body. A law or policy written with religious intent that would/does endorse a specific religion is a problem --- past the limits of separation. The scenario of the story is someone feels they are infringing or being infringed on. In this situation no matter what position is held there will be perceived infringement (as I previously stated). Declaring that a prayer is an endorsement by government or the governing body because people in the office or elected members performed a prayer is pulling hairs that are very fine. Society has got to get over the victim mindset and let people be themselves…until this happens victimization/bias/prejudice will never end.

You saying something does not make it true. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, education, awareness. I am quite educated and knowledgeable about Church in State in the United States. I am also aware of, and do feel some compassion for, the frustration that some Christians have at these situations.
What about thinking that we must put a small limit on Free Exercise to prevent the infringement upon Establishment that many see government-led prayer represents? Or do you have a different definition of ignorant that you use to apply to those who disagree with you?
Our government puts plenty of limits on Free Exercise. We don't think that polygamy is appropriate despite the fact that some people (such as Mormons) feel that it infringes upon their religious rights. Practitioners of Judaism and Santana may practice ritual slaughters of animals but must have limits on how and where they do them.
During a meeting, the County Board represents our government. Leading a prayer represents an explicit endorsement of a specific religion. This is clearly unconstitutional. County Board members and the community are welcome to get together before meetings to pray or to meet after the meeting to pray. They may pray quietly to themselves throughout the entire meeting. They can then go home and pray 24 hours per day. All that is being asked is that they don't make it a government endorsement of Christianity by running the prayer during board meetings.
We wouldn't allow a board led primarily by practitioners of Santana to sacrifice an animal at the beginning of a government meeting. We wouldn't allow a atheist-led board to start each meeting with an affirmation that there are no Gods. We wouldn't let Rastafarians begin such a meeting with a prayer to the FSM. We wouldn't allow such things and we shouldn't. For some reason, tyranny of the majority is acceptable to you in this case.
Feel free to falsely call me ignorant if you are unwilling or unable to have an intelligent and honest debate.

Bubs --- You need to re-read the definition of “ignorant”. As I stated the only ignorant (unaware or uninformed) position is one that only sees the side of non-prayer as no infringement to all. Imposing a position other than your own can be taken as an infringement. Just like the person from this story, the other members also have views. The board members (people) actions don’t have to reflect any policy of the body they represent; it could very well be their own personal motivation. Your so called informed point of view does show ignorance; ignorance in assuming the other board member(s) is the only one performing infringement. By way of action (legal) in this case either side is going to be imposed upon --- like I previously stated it is just a matter of who (position) that will be.

Forced-non prayer is an infringement upon rights? That is extremely convenient for you and your Christian friends.
The purpose of a County Board is to conduct county business, not to affirm a belief in a higher power. If the board were predominantly atheist, would you find an affirmation that there are no gods acceptable?
I don't find ANY group expression (and implicit endorsement) of specific religious views to be inappropriate, whether they be my views or the views of others. The "infringement" upon the right of people to be able to express their religious beliefs is necessary and appropriate in a government setting when that expression represents an implicit (or explicit) endorsement of a specific religion. It is not an ignorant point of view, but rather an informed point of view that happens to differ from yours. It's nice to through around words like "ignorant" when you disagree with someone but an intelligent and intellectually honest person will recognize the ability to be informed but disagree.

"They are "imposing" Constitutional views"
-
They are imposing views based on someone’s interpretations of constitutional law, big difference. Everyone has rights; the right to not participate is an option. But for many forced non-prayer is an infringement of their rights as well. It is just as easy for this person (in the story) to ignore/enter after/leave during as it is for the others to not have the prayer. Either way there is someone that will be suppressed or imposed upon...just a matter of who that will be. The ignorant position is one that only sees the side of non-prayer as no infringement to all.

They are "imposing" Constitutional views, not religious ones. Not praying to the Christian god is not the same as praying to another god or stating that the Christian god does not exist.

"but don't impose your beliefs on those that have other views"
-
Those who choose not to pray are now imposing their views on those that want too....but that is OK?

"You do realize that the leadership at the federal executive level over the past 8 years was one of the most religious in the history of the U.S"
-
Any proof?

Yes, drop the mumbo-jumbo and get on with the business at hand.

Pray in the parking lot and once inside at least pretend to have intellects.

Religious zealots will bring the kool-aid and the poison.

who supplies the KOOL AID to drink?

They are not choosing atheism just because they do not pray to a deity. They are just not favoring a particular deity.
If you want the right to pray out loud than I have the right to play my harmonics to my god while you are praying out loud to yours. Wouldn't it be easier if no one said a prayer out loud to start a governmental meeting. Your rights are no more important than mine. It is the only way to ensure fairness to all.

Do we not believe in what we cant see? The thing is all people in here seem to have a brain and an opinion right? Well if I cant see the opinion or the brain How do I know it exists? Whether athiest or christian we have a right to believe in what ever we choose and also have a right to pray and if we choose to we can do it outloud as the right to free speech is ours to do as we may.

I suppose if you tell Dean Fuller the sky is pink he'd believe you. If you tell him a prayer is unconstitutional he'd believe you. Never mind the fact that in making this decision he is favoring one religion (atheism) over another (christianity). I call that blatant discrimination.

Bubs- I see your point in your post too. I think what mathew516 is saying is that there are most definately good people out there who don't happen to be Christian that still hold values sacred and practice living a moral life. Such as yourself. Just as there are people who claim to be devout Christians who really don't get it either. For me, being a Christian isn't about being right or wrong because that's already been decided for me. My goal is to simply live a principled life that respects and honors the next person's life. Nobody has a corner on the market when it comes to living a perfect life. As mathew said, and I agree with, the principles are the key and give a foundation in which to base our laws around for the good of everyone so people can be held accountable if they choose to feel they're above those laws.

Sannio, that was beautiful. Thank you for a lesson that makes complete sense. It says it all.

DonDiego~whatever makes you happy makes me happy.

Which means not praying at meeting in which the entire community is invited.

bubs~ the gift of heaven is earned. God calls his people to serve with an open heart, just as he does us. Whether or not I'm serving God in that capacity is up to him to judge. He gives us something called freewill. To act upon the gifts we've been blessed with. Namely, the ability to learn and gain wisdom through our mistakes. Whether or not we choose to use those gifts is up to the individual. I've made the choice to make learning an everyday part of my life. And, in this learning through God's teachings and the places he's lead me, I've LEARNED to grow a soft heart as opposed to carrying a hard heart throughout my life. It's called the truth setting me free. It really does happen. Problem is, there are people who are so wrapped up in themselves they wouldn't want to learn the truth because it cuts into their pride. I've been there. The only way to serve others and be a part of what's right is to get over ourselves first.

Keej- my born-again parents often say that our rights are being taken away, just as you did in your post. Can you give an example of one of your rights that has been taken away?

A judicial system is only as good as the foundation it was built upon. There's a reason we've been the example of freedom to the entire world. There's also a reason that those freedom's are leaving this country as well. As has been said in here earlier, it's about foolish pride. The pride before the fall always becomes evident and the United States is no exception.

You seemed to question (in your post at 12:27) how people with beliefs different from yours could make moral decisions regarding life or property. That would bring into question whether or not you choose to obey such laws/Commandments only because you wish to be rewarded after death. Your last post simply brought up your beliefs concerning Christianity and the fact that you respect the beliefs of others and ask that your beliefs are respected.
That doesn't really show that you realize that non-Christians can and do have valid reasons for not partaking in killing or stealing, nor does it show that you choose to avoid killing or stealing for any reason other than desiring the gift of heaven.

Bubs..no, you would be understanding my sentiments incorrectly. It's not acceptable under any circumstances to violate God's rules of commandment! This is the reason our governing laws were put in place based on these principles because our founding fathers understoond that everyone has a right to their own religion or lack thereof if they so choosed. But it gave our laws a foundation in which to be based. I personally, am not into the holier than thou mentality. I know I'm human and I've got my faults and my God sent his only son to die for my regresses. One of those regresses includes my calling to honor and respect others beliefs regardless if they're in line with mine. I'm also called to not stand idly by and watch people minimize my God as well. Take that any way you like.

matthew,
Am I to understand that if you didn't believe in your specific higher power, you would find killing and stealing acceptable?
I happen to believe that while it is possible that God or Thor or Zeus or Ra or Izamna exist, I haven't seen enough evidence to have any reason to believe that they might. The lack of reward for a good life or punishment for a bad one doesn't mean that I find killing or stealing acceptable. From a selfish point of view, I don't go around killing people or stealing their things because I don't want them stealing my things or killing me. On a higher level, I think that all human life is precious and don't recognize any right I have to deny anyone their life (barring of course, some extreme situation such as someone putting my life in immediate danger).
For those who don't (or can't) view these activities they way that I do, we have a judicial system to hold them accountable for their actions.
***
woodsman,
While I thank you (and your father) for your service, I don't recognize your right to hold that service over my head and attempt to push your beliefs off on me. It's great that you have faith in something that brings you comfort and/or joy. Not everyone does.
I know several atheist Marine veterans who fought for our freedoms. They didn't do so to spread their personal beliefs about religion, they did it out of love of their country and because they wanted to protect the men and women that they fought with. Does my Mormon grandfather have the right to use a County Board meeting to spread his beliefs simply because he served and fought in the Navy for many years?

woodsman, God holds people accountable for the life they choose to lead.."even if we don't want him to" as well!

Don Diego~ read my last post. I covered that in the first sentence!

"The U.S. is made up of 86% of the people having a Christian faith. Yet, the 16% who choose otherwise are having free reign on the system."
.
This statement is exactly what scares me about our country today. Not one Christian is prevented from practicing their faith, only from imposing it on others. Yet this is seen as the minority pushing the majority around. The freedom to dissent is "the freedom to be silent" while others pray.
.
In fact the Founding Fathers were all too aware of the tyranny of a religious majority. In Britain, if you did not attend the local church and follow all its rituals in the approved way, you could be denied many civil freedoms. The government even regulated Sunday recreational activities. This is exactly why the Constitution they wrote protects religious minorities.
.
Just imagine for one moment if a small community of Muslims had council meetings opened by a prayer to Allah (the same God, by the way, if you learned that in school). Would you as a Christian, perhaps the one Christian family living in that town, feel your rights were respected by the "permission" to remain silent?

Matthew- Those ideas of "don't kill" etc... are not unique to Christianity. There are many religions in the world that believe in the same principles.

Woodsmans-I do not believe in gods and I do not believe in devils, angels nor demons. I can neither love nor hate that in which I do not believe.

DON-DIEGO: If you don't believe or love "GOD",you must believe and love the DEVIL,or am i missing something? Here is to YOU and ALL your followers; GOD LOVES EVEN YOU,GOD WILL FORGIVE YOUR HATE AND IGNORANCE,GOD WILL BE AT THE GATE TO EVEN WELCOME YOUR KIND. SO AT THE END OF YOUR denile LIFE,AND LOVE FOR YOUR MAKER,EVEN YOU WILL BE SAVED IN THE END! GOD walks by your side,even if you don't want him too. Get over it!!!

Don Diego....they were based on biblical principles which are practiced in many other religions as well. The laws were based around the principles of "don't kill", don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal" etc. Anyone in their right mind understands that these principles are noble, worthy and necessary in our society. The problem is, there's so many intellects out there who are so wrapped up in their crusade against God, they're in denial about them and feel they're above all that. I could care less what people's beliefs are, but I do care which principles they choose to live by because I live in the same communities as these people and I have a right to not be violated by these people, just as they have a right to not be violated by me. I know my God commands that of me....... to him I'm accountable. For the non-believers, who holds you accountable?? Yourself??!!

Some of you really need to do less blogging and more reading. The founding fathers' concepts of democracy were based not in the bible but in philosophers like Rousseau and Voltaire. Try reading them for a change.

You go Darius! You are absolutely correct. I agree it's people's right to their own religious beliefs. The people with non-religious beliefs seem to be catered to by our wonderful powers that be these days. Could it be that the people deciding to compromise the laws of democracy have a hidden agenda? Personally, I don't think the agenda is hidden at all. It's in plain sight. Just as you say, the generations now that openly protest God at the drop of a hat aren't well educated enough to know why they're protesting other than the fact they're products of what they've been taught and fed by their mentors and the environment they live in. You can't know what you don't know. Although, the modern day intellects that seem to have everything so figured out would argue that point just for the sake of arguing. Our society is driven by money these days and not principle or truth. You look at any society that's ever existed, and I'll show you how each and everyone of them became non-existent because of their failure to recognize these points. Whether people like it or not, life isn't always fair and the laws that were put in place 200+ years ago were put there to save our country from ourselves because our forefathers had enough wisdom to understand that we're all fallen and that greed, selfishness, lust, luxury, vanity etc. are the components of evil and nothing good could ever come out of them. Without a foundation of truth, we have nothing to hold us accountable. The foundation is cracking and the only people who are holding this society together are the one's who hold themselves accountable and choose to live by prinicple because it's the right thing to do! This is called TRUTH! It sets people free.

Which god do the 86% of people that believe in a diety worship? As a worshipper of Thor, the one true god of lightning and thunder, I demand that we open the meeting with the following: "Oh great Thor, there is none above you. You are the master of the world and the underworld. Your lightning and thunder proves your majesty. May you crush those that stand in your way and do not acknowledge your existence. We ask you to show us guidance as we make decisions regarding tiff districts in Dodge County and that you strike those in Rock County with lots of hail, rain, and floods because they do not adequately show their love for your giant hammer."
Don't want that prayer? Why not? BECAUSE THOR IS NOT YOUR god AND YOUR god IS NOT MY god. THIS IS WHY WE DON'T PRAY AT GOVERNMENT MEETINGS!

rockstars, what ever happened to democracy? The U.S. is made up of 86% of the people having a Christian faith. Yet, the 16% who choose otherwise are having free reign on the system. Why isn't anything done the democratic way in which the country was founded?? Maybe because the agenda of the lesser of the majority doesn't serve this country's best purpose! People's world views have drastically been affected and altered by the corporate driven media which would love to see God taken out of everything because by doing that, the principle's of moral, valued living would go to the wayside and these selfish, money driven gurus would have more and more influence over the consumers. That's what's happened here in this country. The generations have been brainwashed and lulled to sleep in regards to history or principles that once remained timeless. Why does the minority seem to have the red carpet rolled out for them and the majority continue to get this ram rodded up their "you know what's"??? Why have the tables been tilted one way? Is that democracy?

For those of you who don't like the fact that we pray, what is the problem if you are not required to have to pray too? You afraid of the big bad God??? Have your way for you and let us have our way with it. I personally think it wouldn't hurt a few of us to have the almighty involved what with all the corruption out there. God does here either way and guess what? God knows too, so let it go and let them pray!

Seriously, what's the big deal here? Why can't the people that want to pray, pray in silence? I mean, a prayer is a prayer, regardless of whether or not it is spoken or thought. Get over it people and move on. This is a non-issue.

A one term politician.

Arrggh, there are no atheists in foxholes. Of course if you put people in a state of fear they'll believe in God. That's the whole point of religion.

Blue is right. I don't see why that is so difficult for Christians to get. Pray in private, pray silently, pray quietly, pray in church. Just don't make me listen to it.

what a bunch of crap-ity-crap crap you bleeding heart libs are!

If you are going to pray in a public meeting then you might be offending someone. Pray in your church if you want, but don't impose your beliefs on those that have other views. Speaking of unintelligent. The bible was created to control the unintelligent masses with fear. Let me know when someone can come back from heaven or hell and tell me what it's like. Then I might believe in whomever. Remember the bible was written by man here on earth.

I'll tell ya what mr. fuller,fuller crap as far as i'm concerned! When i was & my father was & every other service man or women were layed up in that fox hole,fighting for your freedom,and all we had was GOD to rely on,for prayer & to keep us safe. We didn't know you or your followers of this ignorant beliefs,but if we did,were we suppose to pray to you fuller,to please return us in one peace to our loved ones,and the country we love,and protect with our lives?? Fuller take a cig.break,or put in some ear plugs.

Very nice sannio

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

For all that believe that our success as a nation is some how connected to our nation's religious beliefs, as if god is showing favortism towards us, how do you explain the many empires that rose and fell without a common belief in Christianity, such as, the Greeks, Romans, Chinese, etc... If god exists as Christians define him, then why would he allow for these civilizations to prosper?

The irony of matthew516's post is astounding. He said, "So many uneducated people who have been fed so much garbage their whole lives that they aren't capable of recognizing truth if it jumped up and bit them in the rear end", and, "if you get God wrong, you'll get everything else wrong", and, "The further we distance ourself from our God or a foundation of truth, the more doors of evil are allowed to be opened. Pride is killing our culture." You do realize that the leadership at the federal executive level over the past 8 years was one of the most religious in the history of the U.S., don't you? How about Afghanistan and Iran? Have they found the truth through God? Or maybe they're just worshipping the wrong god. Plus I would take issue with your statement that "uneducated" people are somehow responsible for taking God out of our culture. The members of most churches I'm familiar with would not be considered the intellectual pillars of our culture.

tolerant

adjective
1. showing respect for the rights or opinions or practices of others

No one says you can't pray before a meeting. Pray all you like. If you believe in a god, he/she will hear you whether you say it aloud or silently.

Marymac- "...under God..." was never in the original pledge. It was added during the 50's (see earlier post).

Simple solution. Let the gentleman who chooses to not pray sit in silence while everyone else who has it right......PRAYS!
If he wants to alienate himself, that's his right and his business. People can tell me until their blue in the face what they believe and I'll respect it, but, it'll be a cold day in hell when they try and force me to go against my principles. I refuse to compromise my soul for anyone. We've got enough people in politics and corporate America who have done enough of that. I refuse to be a part of it.

http://www.wiscnews.com/bdc/news/436264
More to the story...not sure it will make anyone here "feel" any better, but at least there's more to go on.

cartrader~ that's what this country is up against. So many uneducated people who have been fed so much garbage their whole lives that they aren't capable of recognizing truth if it jumped up and bit them in the rear end. People can fight it all they like and but it's a fact of life.....if you get God wrong, you'll get everything else wrong. I've tried it both ways. You can run from it, but, you can't hide from it. Look at the state of the economy right now. Look at the state of this world for that matter. The further we distance ourself from our God or a foundation of truth, the more doors of evil are allowed to be opened. Pride is killing our culture. In this particular case, it's a classic example of people trying to re-invent the wheel. I have no problem respecting people's beliefs and I'll continue to. I do have a problem with people who are willing to cut off their noses just to spite their face because of foolish pride. We all need to get over ourselves. Until that happens, this country will continue to freefall.

I think the Dodge County Supervisors are a bunch of WIMPS!

Thanks for the informative posts Don_Diego! Usually when I pledge allegiance, I'll say, "One nation under several imaginary invisible men in the sky".

No one wants to tell you can't say that we're one nation under God, they just don't want to be told that they have to say it.

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISABLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!!!! I HAVE SAID THAT FOR OVER 50 YEARS AND REFUSE TO HAVE ANYONE TELL ME I CAN'T. AS IS THIS NOT THE LAND OF THE FREE AND HOME OF THE BRAVE?

Well take a look at the Economy and continue to take away prayer in all parts of our constitution. The rath of the Almighty will prevail. OUR country needs a little more prayer as to the shape it's in. Those who complain about the way people and businesses open their meetings need to go to a country that has NO GOD. IMO I am not a religious person ( Spiritual yes)but I believe that there is something GREATER then me out there, If I made all my choices alone without a little guidance, I would be in a world of deep trouble. If you don't like how our country conducts things get the hell out. As long as I can remember Prayer has been part of MY country and It has never been a problem, except to those that believe, "only what they think and believe is right".... IMO = In My Opinion

I just have a hard time understanding how the quote of one man can be stronger than the voices of hundreds, all I have to say is (Thank GOD)

What the he.. is this world coming to. Sooner or later everyones going to have to carry a copy of the Constitution just to talk to someone. Maybe thats a business I can start up!!!

What the he.. is this world coming to. Sooner or later we are going to have to carry around a book of the Constitution to talk to people. Maybe thats a business I can start up!!!

Everyone has been fooled as to the nature of our founding fathers thanks in great part to the 1950's Cold War and the linking of atheism to communism, and the subsequent re-writing of the history books to reflect the feelings of the time. To further prove the point I add the following quotes by James Madison:
"An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a PERFECT SEPARATION between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government." [James Madison in a letter to Livingston, 1822, from Leonard W. Levy- The Establishment Clause, Religion and the First Amendment,pg 124]

"It was the belief of all sects at one time that the establishment of Religion by law, was right & necessary; that the true religion ought to be established in exclusion of every other; and that the only question to be decided was which was the true religion. The example of Holland proved that a toleration of sects, dissenting from the established sect, was safe & even useful. The example of the Colonies, now States, which rejected religious establishments altogether, proved that all Sects might be safely & advantageously put on a footing of equal & entire freedom.... We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Gov." [James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822, The Writings of James Madison, Gaillard Hunt]

He gave many more, which any of you can look up. I find Woods and Altheia's statements interesting. Altheia says that those who complain are intolerant and Woods tells us to leave during the prayer. Who is intolerant?

"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
-Harvey Fierstein

I say get rid of DEAN FULLER,or when their PRAYING,he can act like ELVIS & leave the building! These groups are a bunch of crap.

While the words of the constitution don't say it, the intent was there. Here is article 11 of the Treat of Tripoli of 1796, ratified by the congress and signed by John Adams: "Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." While this treaty was exactly that, a treaty, it made clear to the world that the US government was not in any way founded on Chrisitan principles and that it was the intent of the founders that our government should not show preference towards any religion.

Unconstitutional? Do these people even know their history, and what the framers of that constitution did at their meetings? Maybe praying goes against the current fleeting narrow interpretation of the constitution, but it's hardly unconstitutional. Do they realize that separation of church and state is nowhere in the constitution (and that Jefferson's original intent and context does not resemble its current useage)?

One complainer? The FFRF's membership during the last 5 years has gone from 3,000 to nearly 15,000. If people are still going to pray, then this is no big deal. We should be happy that our government offices are not promoting any one religious belief over any others.