Go private sector! Great to see a positive alternative to Big Brother! :O)

No need to shout. I said "hockey kids" as shorthand. We all know there are also a few figure skaters, etc. This changes nothing in the arguments for and against the government ice arena. Privatize now.

Superdave you miss the the point IT IS NOT JUST THE HOCKEY KIDS GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tom1cass2. So be it, indeed! All of your points have already been covered, repeatedly. I'm sorry you're willing to let minor children hold you hostage ("the more we take away from them the more trouble they will get into"). And who is taking something away from anyone??? Or are you of the opinion that it is the birthright of hockey kids to have a government ice rink provided at taxpayer expense? Ridiculous.

People call the people who want this ice arena 'selfish' I personally don't I for one am
not being 'selfish'. I want it for the kids who use the rink. Not just the kids who want to play hockey or figure skate but the kids who use it
just for recreation. If thats selfish then so be it. People have no problems with the other sporting venues but when it comes to the ice arena because it wasn't taken care of they don't want it. We need recreation for our kids, the more we take away from them the more
trouble they will get into. If you want to call me 'selfish' then go for it. (more kids & families use it than you think)

MadeinUSA: Congrats, you get two out of three points for the most cliche post. You used "complaining" and "negative" (in fact extra points for "negative nellys", although you stole that from hockeymomsrule LOL). You only missed "whining", which would have given you a perfect score.
PEOPLE!!!! .. Just state your opinion. No need to try and characterize everyone else's opinion. I say A. You say B. Then I say, you're NEGATIVE, and you're just COMPLAINING and WHINING. Give me a break. Just make your point! If you disagree with someone, fine, we are all entitled to our opinions. But don't waste everyone's time by attacking the messenger of the message you don't happen to agree with.
MadeinUSA, you can HELP by being more polite, more thoughtful, more reasonable in this forum. Your last post just made me laugh. All of your points have been covered repeatedly, but then you have to add the lame cliche sentences to look even more ridiculous. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but I see the same thing over and over and over and over................it gets very old.

Janesville has crumbling roads, a lack of incentive money to attract jobs, a lack of money to plow snow, and an increasing amount of homeless children - remember this story ?
http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/apr......
And there are still selfish, arrogant takers that want to spend $1M+ of our tax money on an ice rink. How sad.

The one thing that keeps coming up about the ice arena is the annual support from the city. In it's current structure it is losing money (high utilities and high repairs bills account for most of the $80,000 loss each year) I think I read that the current fix will be about $10,000 just to get the ice back in. I believe that a new ice arena will be more energy efficent thus saving money. The equipment will be new and hopefully with warranties lowering repair costs, again a money saver. We might find that rather then a "money pit" the arena may become a "cash cow" or at least break even. I think as a city we need to wait and see the numbers before we can get too excited either way. I am reminded that the people of Edgerton ran some power plant investors out of town before they had all the facts. They missed out on a great opportunity to get some of city debts paid off, because they were too quick to pass judgement without listening to the idea. Who knows maybe this will bomb like the idea to move the fair grounds. I know I sure like parking on the street and walking to an over packed fair ground. Let's all take a breath and wait to see what the numbers look like.

The city ignored the problems when it wasn't so bad. If they hadn't ignored it then the situation would not be were it is today. This rink could bring in money people just don't want to see it or beleive it. I'm tired of trying to explain it. People can beleive what they want.

Hey hockeymom, what do you mean "no tax dollars"? Money is to come out of the City of Janesville, isn't it?

"Hockeymom" ;The rink has been falling apart for years...it has been sad too watch. Speaking as a person who is at the rink 4-5 days a week. No tax payer dollars, great rink for Janesville, money spent in Janesville's hotels and restaurants. I am having a hard time finding the problem. What is wrong with you people?? Complaining just to complain...give me a break. There was just an article in the paper last night about Youth Baseball...same thing, were you all complaining about that too?? Tournaments generate money..sorry to break it to all of you negative nellys..Build it and they will come!! Let me know how I can help.

tom1cass2 as well as others have said over and over again that this ice arena is widely used and is a busy place.

What I want to know is that if this is true... how come the place can not make enough money to support itself? It's been a money pit for it's entire exitence and there's no end to that in sight. It was privately funded for a while and what was the result there?

Bankruptcy... and the city having to take it over again. With the economy the way it is and with unemployment being as high as it is... why pour more money that we can't afford into this money pit?

According to Stan Milam(not sure of the spelling)on the radio the people behind this are the same ones pushing for other things such as the aquatic center and childrens museum. Who is is this group? How can this group have such influence on our city council and OUR tax dollars? What is going on behind closed doors with city council members and city officials? From the radio I got the impression council members have already been checking out other ice arena's? huh? Is their not laws about the council doing such things without making it public? .
Pretty obvious we as city residents have been manipulated to think we need a new ice arena. Somebody is making money off this- we have corruption just like the govenor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich.
These forums are filled with people that stand to make personal gains from a new ice arena. We need to hear from the real people and not these propaganda machines.

People want to assume that this problem just happened all of a sudden, they have been trying to fix the problem for a long time. It didn't just happen, we have been having soft ice and melting ice for a long time. That is what happens when you have a system that is 35 years old and parts are no longer available. Plain and simple it needs to be fixed.

It wasn't all of a sudden the ice has been bad for a long time. Like I said they have been hobbcobbling it together for a long time. It is a very old system. Nothing fishy about it.

I'll tell you why there arn't 2 high school hockey teams in Janesville. If there is only one, John Maurman (or however you spell his name) can condense the two high school groups into one and pick from it the best players and his friends or relatives kids. The rest of the kids are turned away at tryouts and told they aren't good enough after some of them had been playing hockey since they were 5 years old. It utterly destroys some of the kids.
This of course increases the tallent on the team and makes him look like a better coach. The Madison teams have complained about this tactic for years. But Little Johnny insists there arn't enough kids for 2 teams and by him telling the kids before tryouts and after that they arn't good enough and to go home, he makes sure there arn't enough kids for 2 teams. I think little Johnny should go home and give the kids a chance. I don't thing cheating is the way to win.

hmmm......this "problem" seems a little fishy to me. Theyve been whining about wanting improvements for a while now and all of a sudden a major meltdown out of nowhere.

In the thirty years I have lived in Janesville I have never swam in any pools, never played baseball at Dawson Field, never waded at either Palmer Park or Riverside Park. I've never been to the Senior Center. I've never kicked a soccer ball at the The Youth Complex.There are streets I've never driven on. Parks I've never been to. I've never rode a city bus or called the fire department and yet I'm glad we have these things and am willing to pay for them.

I think the Youth Hockey program is great. However, can someone please tell me why a city of over 60,000 with 2 High Schools cannot put a team on the ice from both schools. Is it the coach, or what? Look at all of the kids involved in Youth Hockey and we can only have one high school team. There is something wrong.

I'm not against a new rink as long as it comes from private sources 100%. If the city gives the property that is a big percentage towards something new for the community. I just don't think now is the time to increase the tax burden for anyone rich or poor.

I for one wish Janesville could for once embrass something as being good for our community instead of complaining about it. The ice rink is not only for hockey or figure skating. I see plenty of teens skating just like they use to at the roller rinks, the only difference is they are skating on ice not wood. Not only teens but families, kids under 10 along with there parents are using the rink. It is not all that expensive 6.00 which includes skate rentals. They also have family prices. I wish people would realize the rink is used more than what they think, and not just by hockey and figure skaters. It is used by church groups, on Weds in the summer there is a group of kids that come down, not sure where from but I think Community Action or the Ymca. (not sure) So please don't think that the rink isn't good for our community because it is. Also the reason people may not think it is used because the parking lot is not full, parents drop their kids off and then return to pick them up. I know no matter what I say people are not going to believe what I say, but if you have never been down to see the kids and families skating on friday or saturdays you really can't give a correct statement if you have never stepped in the rink. Of course just like any other business there are some days where it isn't that busy, depending what is going on elsewhere.

creatureinthefreezer - These kids should get used to tax hangovers with their new president. They will be paying for the rest of their lives for things that aren't helping this community at all. I'd rather spend the money on OUR community.

runrabbitrun - No, I was not part of the city manager selection committee. I have faith that those charged with such an important task, would take their job seriously and pick the right person for the job.

involvedparent: I do not have minor children at home. That being said, there is so much for kids to do in this town, it is almost mind-boggling, in particular compared to what past generations had. It's great that your kids take advantage of many of those opportunities, and it's great that you spend money there.

Just a few corrections and comments..specific to the fairgrounds, talk to your county board about your fairgrounds, that is where the money comes from not the city. Second to the "hockey is a rich kids sport"--we have numerous kids all play hockey, my husband is laid off, and I know when I need help, and I will this year, I can go to the current board and they will help me be sure my kids keep playing--hockey is and always will be a supportive positive family sport. Third--Man do I feel sorry for Eric Levitt, the guy moves to town and wants his kid to play sports, too bad for him it was hockey. The problems with the rink existed long before the U-haul pulled in front of his house in Arizona to move them here. Give the guy a break!! Fourth...if you think sports do not bring money to this town, think again. Tournaments bring alot of money in various different ways. Just look at the recent state tournament that was hosted at the rink or look at Tuesday's paper and read the article specific to the baseball fields and the tournaments they are planning. Sports does bring money to town and Lord knows this town needs it. And finally, Tuesday's paper stated that when the ball fields are completed, Janesville will be a premier sports town. I have one correction.....WHEN JANESVILLE HAS A NEW ICE RINK IT WILL BE A PREMIER, ALL AROUND SPORTS TOWN. Our schools have beautiful new field houses, we have beautiful football fields, beautiful soccer fields, we shortly will have beautiful numerous ball diamonds, and hopefully, if all you negative nelly's don't get your way, we will have a beautiful new rink. Good luck to those folks whoever you are working on it. We don't have much, but we can help in someway. Just tell me how!!

I want it all and I want it now!

Take the responsibility out of the hands of the city by giving the property to the investors as our part of the new building. This way the city no longer has to pay for any expense for up keep etc. Brings the property back on the right side of the balance sheet and can be taxed as a normal business. I also find it comical that all these self serving people who claim it's for the kids BS. These same kids are the ones who are going to have the tax hangover when all this wasteful spending is finished.

runrabbitrun - Have you read all the articles regarding the fairgounds and why things haven't happened yet with that? The same people complaining about the ice arena are complaining about money being spent on the that topic. Everyone wants things for free and even if it benefits their community and they don't use it, they think they shouldn't pay. If that's how people think the system works, someone needs to cuff them upside the head and slap some reality into their closed minds.

SuperDave -- do you have kids? This town is so lacking in activities for kids from the age of 11-18! I know, I have 3 in that age range. All 3 use the ice arena as well as traxler park - volunteering their time I might add. My boys would use the skatepark if available. All 3 will use the Sports Complex. THINK of the $$$ I WILL spend at all of these places!! Take 2 minutes to think about this and how this will help shape our future...the kids are this town's future. PERIOD.

Wow, now I'm wealthy. Thanks for letting me know, I had no idea!

I hope the private investors go through too, maybe they'll take better care of the facility than the city does!

JOWNER,
I don't believe you have your facts right. Not even close.

-doseman95- How true...In all actuality,, most Youth Hockey Programs in the area have the same attitudes towards the "niche" of hockey.. They all have programs to help families with the sport, Beloit, Stoughton, Verona, Madison... Hockey (in our area) is not a "Rich Kids Sport"..(anymore, it used to be) but now it is available to all kids (and Parents) who can't afford the equipment or lessons for skating... My Youngest is one of the products of learn to skate programs (8 yrs ago) in Janesville. SHE has played hockey since she has been in 1st grade.. we have played in Janesville (at least) 3 times a year since then,,, and we have seen the Deterioration of the J'Ville Ice Arena.. Soft spots n the ice where it is so thin (because the compressor is not able to keep up) that the ice is almost to concrete.. which is very dangerous to both the skater and floor.. water puddles in the corners because it (the compressor) can't freeze it fast enough after resurfacing. and the warming room is colder than the rink area... It cost money to fix these problems, (and putting band-aids on them will just take care of them temporarily, but still cost money (more of it ) in the long run.. so a new building (whether private or publicly funded) is (seems to be the best option)... besides it is our kids that will benefit the most from it.... and lets see if the city can come up with an alternative for the old building

NEW FLASH: For those of you that oppose this or feel it isn't worth it because you haven't stepped foot in the place. You lose. The decision has been made. Move on.

Sounds like some manipulation by someone in city management. Timing of the recent press releases about repairs and beer sales too funny. My solution would be if they want a new rink then donate the land and existing building period. All other expense will be paid 100% by investors. End of story. Otherwise fix the equipment as needed. Increase the fees to cover costs and if that cannot cover then close the place. In the last 18 years I've never stepped one foot into the place. Hockey will not bring in any revenue into Janesville. How many nights at the SuperGreat would need to cover 1 million in tax dollars. Get real people. It’s looking like our City Management is getting the spending Flu/bug created by the Feds.

If anyone ever has any questions about Youth hockey,contact any board member at the following link.
http://www.usahockey.com/jyha/
Just click on the Board of Directors page on the left hand side. Hope to see you all at the rink !!!

doseman95: Thanks for the info. It's good to know that JYH is making an attempt to reach out.

doseman95 - Thanks for the good post and the actual facts for those that don't know anything about how the program actually works.

SuperDave - Actually, I didn't say anything about you complaining in my last post, but thanks for proving one thing again by your last comment. You my friend, sound like a little boy that doesn't like it when he gets his way. It sounds to me like you don't support jack sh#t so just continue to sit in your cave while the rest of the World enjoys what's out there.

Too bad you had to go that route with your last comment when I was just trying to have a conversation about your post.

SuperDave- Thanks for bringing up hockey as a "niche" sport. Let me correct you on a few of your points. Janesville Youth Hockey will never turn away anyone who wants to play hockey. We have a scholarship program to help families who have financial issues, hence your"poor" kids have all the same opportunities as our so called "wealthy" kids. You actually can just walk in and play hockey, even if you don't know how to skate. Our entry level program will provide you with all the equipment you need except skates and a stick, which you can pick up cheap during our used equipment sale during registration.Hockey has a season, just like youth baseball and football. We will even schedule a time for your ice and teach you how to skate, just like the swim lessons at the pool. JYH is working hard to try to rid hockey of it's stigma as a "niche " sport for the wealthy. I hope this information helps.

getinvolved: You are correct. It's not valid to say that since a minority use a facility, that alone justifies privatization. (I don't support public golf courses either btw, but that's another story). The related factor in my mind - you mentioned parks and pools. Pretty much anyone that wants to can enjoy parks and pools, there is little to no equipment to buy (a swim suit), no team to join. Hockey is such a "niche" sport, and likely tends to attract kids from wealthier families, shutting out most of the "poor" kids.
So it's the universality of the parks and pools that separates it from the government ice arena, which has an air of exclusivity. Now I know that some will disagree, but think about it. You can't just walk in off the streets and play hockey. You need organization, equipment, scheduled time on the ice, and it also helps if you know how to skate.
Now here's something funny - Without even having to read the posts by spark (which I don't), I would bet money that somewhere he has accused me of either "whining" or "complaining", AND of being "negative".
Same thing every time, that's why I don't read him (or her).

the ice arena has no impact on the community as a WHOLE. sorry. if it such a good idea and cost and business effective, let all the money come from private investors. they will be able to run it right anyway.

Dave - You said - "Those that want it will support it. Those with common sense and a positive vision for the city will not."

How is trying different options to bring people that spend money into the community not having a positive vision for the city? Money will need to be spent in order to rebuild this town whether people like it or not. People need to think ahead. If you want nice things for yourself, your home, etc. You need to spend money. If you want nice things for your community, the same is true. That's life.

That being said, those that support it have a positive vision for the city.

SuperDave, I agree that privatization may be the way to go but to say this only because most residents don't use the facility is wrong. What percentage of residents use either golf course? City parks? The pools? If you want to shut down the ice arena for this reason you should shut down all of these places. With all of the problems over the years this place has had it might be best to try and privatize it but not because only a small percentage of people use it.

I rest my case. My post proved correct once again.

Privatization is the best option. It is not the proper function of government to own, operate, or maintain an ice arena. Most residents have never set foot in the place. This is a classic example of a white elephant, a true boondoggle. Those that want it will support it. Those with common sense and a positive vision for the city will not. We have discussed all of this before. It will continue to come up in the news, over and over, ad nauseum, until the right decision is made and the city finally gets out of the way and lets the private sector function. This month it's the refrigeration system, next month it will be something else. Obviously the city government and the supporters on this forum think that the residents have an endless supply of money to keep propping up this aging, money-losing facility. They do not. It's time for the city to move on.
Please note: I have attacked no one on this forum. I have only stated my opinions. If you are going to attack me, have a ball, but note that it only tends to reveal your own emotional lack of self-control and communication skills.

Yes, I do have to laugh at how one sided so many people are in this community. I'm sorry times are difficult for so many and things are tough in this town, but here's a news flash. In order for this community to survive and come out on top, people are going to need to be drawn to this town rather than pushed away. This is going to require some spending and different ideas to bring money into the town. The youth sports complex and this rink, is a start of ways to do that. Do you people have any concept of how much money these types of things bring to the community? How much money is spent at restaurants and lodging? Youth sports are a HUGE family tradition and those families aren't afraid to spend. That being said, if you're not involved with it, that's fine. But at least open your eyes and see the big picture. Complaining and negativity is going to bring nothing good to this community.

The rink has been falling apart for years...it has been sad too watch. Speaking as a person who is at the rink 4-5 days a week. No tax payer dollars, great rink for Janesville, money spent in Janesville's hotels and restaurants. I am having a hard time finding the problem. What is wrong with you people?? Complaining just to complain...give me a break. There was just an article in the paper last night about Youth Baseball...same thing, were you all complaining about that too?? Tournaments generate money..sorry to break it to all of you negative nellys..Build it and they will come!! Let me know how I can help.

They can come up with part of the money for a NEW facility from scratch?
Providing our Ice Skaters can have their use of the new facility too, here is an idea for the current facility
Turn it into an affordable roller rink / recreation center/skate park /swimming and fishing area for the kids. WIN-WIN

This was the plan all along. It is not surprising. I don't mind if private money is used, however, not combined with public money. If public money is used, it must be owned by the city. We don't want another JPAC deal, where we give a private person a million of our tax dollars.

"a group of ice arena supporters think they can raise at least part of the money needed for a new facility."
*

What part? 10% of the cost of a new building, the other 90% paid by taxpayers? I agree this is convenient timing.

As long as we have Gov. Do-little and Mike Sheridan and Paul Ryan accepting "campaign contributions" from the insurance companies we will be footing the bill for illegal alien healthcare-they've filled their pockets already. In case you were not aware of this factoid; campaign contributions are the SAME as personal monies after the election. A giant slush fund for the elected, provided by American Family insurance, Farmer's, etc.. Even when NOT elected they still get to keep the money.

If the Janesville Ice Arena is a "public facility" to be used by all, why is it not marketed as such? Because it is not. It is a private entity illegaly syphoning tax dollars. Lawsuit to come and cost the City even more. Somebody post up the next City Coucil meeting time and date.

"Spark you are correct on your comment. People, stop complaining and start looking at other stuff, come on now, after being an employee at the rink for 3 years, i already knew about all the problems with the machines, its been a known fact, but everytime they always over look it. And complaining about o yeah build a new rink but dont use my tax money, please come on now, wouldnt you rather have your tax money be put into something as the rink instead of your tax money providing benefits for illegals. Lets think here."

Let's see, tax money spent to help an infant be born or tax money on an ice arena. I choose the former.

right on spark and dudefromjsvl

Spark you are correct on your comment. People, stop complaining and start looking at other stuff, come on now, after being an employee at the rink for 3 years, i already knew about all the problems with the machines, its been a known fact, but everytime they always over look it. And complaining about o yeah build a new rink but dont use my tax money, please come on now, wouldnt you rather have your tax money be put into something as the rink instead of your tax money providing benefits for illegals. Lets think here.

Nothing will ever make you happy. You complained when it was talking about tax dollars and now you're complaining about people investing and raising money. As far as the comments about the old machines needing repair now and not before. Where the hell have you been? All the equipment in that place has needed repairs for the last 15 years. Why do you think this has become such an issue?

They have been hobbcobbling the rink for over a year they have just ignored the problem. They rink has been needing fixing for years. It just didn't happen over night.

Hmmm~I'm looking forward to hearing more about this. Might be a step towards the privatization that some of the bloggers have been blogging over. Wonder how much moola it would take to be considered as an investor? This could be a good thing~unless the investors intend to use it for Hockey alone. If the investors are all Pro-Hockey~ figure skating usually gets the boot ~or the short end of the stick. (no pun intended) I enjoy watching both types of skating so I hope a new facility would support both!

How "convenient..." (© The Church Lady). The old Ice Arena equipment breaks down 2 weeks after the beer sales agreement ond only 5 weeks after the city agrees to spend $200,000 to refurbish the old money pit. "Are you SURE you wouldn't rather just build us a brand spanking new money pit instead of repairing the old one...?"
.
The newly-elected City Council should take this opportunity to save face (and $3,000,000 in tax dollars a new arena will cost after the usual contract overruns) by closing the doors and putting a "for sale" sign out front.

If they want to use their money to build this rink that's great. Just don't use my tax money.

Buggs...Know what you are commenting on before you voice your opinion. Go back to your hole.

runrabbitrun - did you read the article? It didn't say the city was considering building a new ice arena. As for your comment, "funny how parts of the old machines need repair now but didn't a year ago," that doesn't even make any sense. Your car may be running today, but need a new transmission tomorrow. Over time, things need to be maintained or over time, they will need to be fixed or repaired. That is true of anything mechanical. I would hope that you would give your city manager, a manager the selection committee was very enthusiastic about, more credit than to think he is only interested in this because of his son. He works for 60,000 of us, not his family.