Without getting into if Ayres is good or not...using logic that if the school hired him he must be Ok is just plain flawed. If schools did good back ground checks we would not have teachers touching kids.

SuperDave, thanks for the encouragement. You're right, I should vote for who I think will make the best president, not a person the media tells me is likely to win. If everybody did the same thing instead of letting the media filter our choices for us, we might really see some improvement in this country. (Do you really think that half the people misunderstood my last post?? Scary.)
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dub190, you're still using the same reasoning which I believe is flawed. As I understand them, your points are:
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1. Ayers is a bad person.
2. Obama knows Ayers.
3. Therefore, Obama is a bad person.
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First of all, as far as I know Ayers was never convicted of any bombings. The federal charges against him were dropped. Many of the bombings that some people attribute to him occurred after Ayers left the organization.
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Ayers was hired to teach at the University of Illinois. If he was as bad a person as you say, I doubt the university would have hired him. He was also asked to serve on the boards of directors for charity organizations.
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As to your second point, you are correct. The two men know each other. They served on the same charity and grant-disbursing boards at the same time, and therefore frequently attended the same board meetings. They lived in the same area of Chicago. In 1995, Ayers and his wife hosted the meet-and-greet coffee, at which then-state Senator Alice Palmer introduced Obama to the group as her chosen successor for the 1996 Democratic primary.
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I think your logic breaks down on point three. Many people are no doubt in contact with Bill Ayers: his neighbors, his fellow faculty members, the grant recipients. Would you condemn the students who sit in his classes? Their tuition money, after all, is used to pay his salary, so would you say they are supporting a terrorist? What about the needy student who receives assistance from a charity organization Ayers helps direct? Would you say that that student received funding from a terrorist?

Eksreigh - You said "SuperDave, our mainstream media "helpfully" shows us that only two political parties are viable, and the remaining parties contain wackos with kooky ideas." I'll bet you a pitcher of red Kool-Aid that half the people who read that didn't know you were being sarcastic! I liked Ron Paul also, too bad he dropped out. But moving on to the general election, I'll vote for the (so-called) third party candidate of my choice. It's nice to be able to vote for the person who I want to win. What?!? Better read that again! Yes, I vote for who I want to win! NOT who the media tells me is in the TOP TWO, i.e. the "lesser of two evils". It's also nice to vote for GOOD instead of EVIL. When it comes to poll numbers, WHO CARES what the media say? I will still vote for whoever I please. You should too!

I LOVE Carole King. I think it's wonderful that those who can promote the one they believe in, to do it. How exciting for Elkhorn. I hope the turnout is great!

SuperDave, our mainstream media "helpfully" shows us that only two political parties are viable, and the remaining parties contain wackos with kooky ideas. Of course we get the same basic results after each election. Personally, I think Ron Paul has better ideas than either McCain or Obama, but of course Paul is no longer a candidate. The question I now face is how I can best not waste my vote: Should I vote for someone who is likely to win, or vote my conscience? On November 5 do I want to gloat that my astuteness allowed me to correctly pick the winner, or do I want be comfortable knowing I voted for the person I thought would lead us the best?
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In my opinion, the election process is too much like the Super Bowl, where people blindly root for their favorite team. The only difference is that instead of having the parties and candidates actually compete against each other, the media tells us early on which people will make it to the playoffs.

Giving 700 billion dollars to the banking industry is SOCIALISM!! The very thing that the Republican party is supposedly against ! GO FIGURE

Please don't waste your vote on the corporate parties (R&D). If you vote for either of those guys, you are voting for more corporate access to the next administration. Check out some of the (so-called) third party candidates if you really want change in 2009.

The McCains are reportedly worth over $100 million, while the Obamas might be worth $1 million. But I agree with you. If you overly tax "rich" business owners, they'll make up for it by increasing prices, buying from cheaper (possibly overseas) vendors, and paying their employees less.

I really don't think Obama means it when he says he's going to spread the wealth around. Get real! He's wealthy, I haven't seen a dime of his wealth in my paycheck!!! None of those rich guys are going to give up their wealth to you and me. The middle class will be paying it all and if you don't think so you are brainwashed by Obama!!!!

fidpan, I don't for a second believe Obama or McCain when they tell us they're going to cut our taxes. How can they cut taxes when it looks like we'll be spending $1 trillion to bail out the banks? And don't forget that those pesky wars are costing us $16 billion each month. The Iraq War is now the second most costly war in U.S. history, surpassed only by World War II. In the fiscal year that just ended, the federal government spent $454 billion more than it took in. Both men also want to increase spending for their pet programs.
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But both men know it could be political suicide to promote tax increases just before an election. It's much easier to wait until after the election, then announce that as president you can see the situation is much more serious than you were previously led to believe.

But it doesn't seem like Obama and Ayers were "buddies." They didn't hang out at each other's houses or go out together for a beer. For awhile they belonged to the same two organizations that sought to improve public education. I've seen no evidence that ties Obama to any of Ayers' past illegal activities, so while we may not want Ayers as president I don't see what Ayers has to do with Obama.
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The McCain team apparently launched a huge telephone campaign on October 16, telling listeners of a supposed terrorist link between Obama and Ayers. But research by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker, The New Republic, and CNN has found no connection. CNN said "There is no indication that Ayers and Obama are now 'palling around,' or that they have had an ongoing relationship in the past three years. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Ayers is now involved in terrorist activity or that other Obama associates are." http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200...

Actually, crafty, I checked again and you're right.
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Ayers published his memoirs on 9/10/01. In connection with his book, he gave numerous interviews to The New York Times and other publications just before 9/11, and the Times interview was printed just after 9/11. After the interview was published, Ayers wrote a Letter to the Editor, which was published on 9/15, complaining of the interviewer's characterizations: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

"taken out of context" my eye!

dub190, you've posted numerous references to Bill Ayers. Assuming for a moment that most of your accusations are true, how do they relate to Barack Obama?
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You wrote that the men are "buddy buddy." It seems they both lived in the Hyde Park area of Chicago, but so did 30,000 other people. They also served on the same boards of directors for two nonprofit groups that were disbursing federal education grants, a federal program championed by Ronald Reagan.
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Bill Ayers received Chicago's Citizen of the Year award in 1997 for his work in public school reform. He is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois-Chicago. He claims the quotes of him saying "We didn't do enough," etc., where taken out of context, and that he meant all people should have done more to stop the war.
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This isn't meant to defend the violence that happened in the late '60s. As you wrote, though, the domestic bombings took place while Obama was still in grade school. Heck, a lot of us were in grade school during that time.
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Karl and Dwight Armstrong bombed the Army Math Research Center at UW-Madison in 1970 to protest the same war, were later arrested, and served time in prison. Thirty years later, Karl was running a juice stand in Madison and Dwight was driving a Madison cab. So if I go to school at UW-Madison and happen to ride in Dwight's cab or buy a drink at Karl's stand, should I be forever tarred and feathered too?

Janesvillemom…there are so many things out of reality with your comments. Any tax-loop holes WERE put in place by politicians…why blame the rich for a provision in the tax law put in place by congress? Your stance that too many get wealthy by inheritance…what is your solution to this; everyone must spend all their money before they die? You declare that a CEO does not work 500 times harder than a middle class person is like comparing the work of a tree trimmer to that of a surgeon (apples to oranges). If the “middle class” person had the skill for the job as CEO do you think they would not apply for the job? Your declaration that companies get employees educated by tax dollars is a farce…the government has no money of its own (hint it is our money we are required to send in) and we as citizens are "required" to educate our kids; so the benefit to companies is the same benefit the local grocery store has. Everyone that uses public roads pay…you may have forgotten about the federal excise tax applied to gasoline/diesel fuel was put in place just for this reason. Everything you stated can be broken down to “they have more”, “they have not paid enough”, or “they haven’t paid their fair share”. Nothing is keeping you from attaining the same status in the economy as those you complain of.

Here is a website that puts the two tax plans side by side. Look at it. Read it.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/c...

Here's another. This site is only about the facts. Some of you Far Lefters will probably be outraged by the truth.

http://www.factcheck.org/

Many of the rich pay a lower percentage than the middle class. Tax loopholes and off-shore accounts allow some of the rich to pay nothing!
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The wealth in this country has rapidly moved up so that a HUGE percent of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a VERY FEW people. I don't think Obama wants to take it all away, he wants a system that is more balanced. Mr. Hendricks is a great example of someone who WORKED for his wealth and I totally respect that. But too many people at the top got there due to inherited wealth, powerful connections and other things that have very little to do with hard work. You can't tell me that a bank CEO works 500 times harder than a middle class person, it just isn't possible. In fact, to get those super high salaries and stock options, many have been lying and cheating and creating a financial disaster that the rest of us are going to have to bail them out of! I do believe people should be paid according to the value they provide society and the hours of hard work they put in. Obviously, people who don't work or do the minimum should not be given handouts, but WAY too many people are WORKING HARD in this country and STILL cannot afford the basics.
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I believe in capitalism, just not the system we have now that favors the rich, powerful and well-connected over the people who are actually working hard. Our government has been making the rules based on campaign contributions for too long and lobbyists are writing the legislation! HOW can we expect a fair system in that environment?
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Also the wealthy benefit more from the services provided by our government and therefore should pay a higher percentage in taxes. They get employees educated by tax dollars, they transport their products on public roads, they use resources subsidized by the government at a higher rate, they do more environmental damage...etc.

I just love how people say they will have "PLENTY" of money left after paying their share.

Janesvillemom, do you really think that you won't be effected by the spread the wealth mentality? The numbers simply don't add up, there will not be enough money at the rich level, then what Obama wants to "spread around". Keep in mind that the "rich" already pay a higher percentage of taxes then the middle class, even though they don't earn the majority of the money. What if some one wanted to take away your child tax credit? I mean you did have the choice not to have kids why should I pay for your choice? See once you start picking on one "class" of citizen and wanting part of their share realize that it can always come back to you just as the "rich" are under the gun now to "share". I am really disheartened this election, it seems people have given up on the American dream, that with HARD work, and sacrifice, you can be anything you want, without any government handouts. Look at the late owner of ABC Supply, he went from a roofer to a millionaire, it still happens. I believe in the American dream, does anyone else? Anyone?

SURE SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND
So do you believe that concentrating wealth at the top is preferable to spreading it around?

Obama does not promote socialism, Bush does! Buying preferred stock in banks is socialism, taxing the wealthy is NOT.

No one is giving ALL the hard working people's money to anyone. They are still going to have PLENTY if they are making over 250K.

Seems like panic has set in among the McCain supporters when they start crying socialism!

"At least he's capable of telling the truth"
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You'd never know that by his ads.

At least he's capable of telling the truth.

Never mind that McCain said.....
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"The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should."

Go McCain. I was on the fence until I heard Obama speak off the cuff.
Just look at how he fell apart and was forced to tell the truth to Joe the plumber! When his pre-arranged answers, like, “The market is the best mechanism ever invented for efficiently allocating resources to maximize production.” aren't possible, his true feelings come out.
Speaking extemporaneously, Obama will say things like, he doesn’t want his daughters “punished with a baby” or that bitter Midwesterners cling to guns, God and ethnic grudges “as a way to explain their frustrations.”
When talking to Joe the plumber he said: “It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too. I think that when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

SURE SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND. THEN NO ONE WILL WORK FOR THE AMERICAN DREAM.
Give all the hard working people's money to the lazy and undeserving! Socialism is right around the corner!

I love "That One!" Obama rocks!