If I am not mistaken, both murders in Madison were stabbings? It would only stand to reason if people had guns, no one in their right mind would bring a knife to a gun fight.....

They made a pretty convincing argument. Those kids are scared.

A new group has formed with Virginia Tech having the largest chapters-SCCC or Student Concelaed Carry on Campus. http://concealedcampus.org/ There are 11 campuses that allow concealed carry in the US, one an hour from VT. They have had no incidences at any of them. Nightline did a story last night. The kids at the schools feel like sitting ducks and want to defend themselves.

I agree with MajorMpjo. Protecting yourself and your family does not mean going to the sporting goods store, buying a handgun, and putting it in your sock drawer. It means being competent, responsible and comfortable with guns. I sleep better at night knowing that I can defend my house with the gun in my bedroom, and knowing that everyone I live with doesn't just shoot well, but knows how to live in a house with guns in it.

...and yes, my wife (who is also an expert marksman) and my educated children sleep very well and safe at night. Thank you for your concern.

lakennedy, I disagree with you. kids are killed every year because they have no training and therefore no RESPECT for firearms. My children are trained at firearm safety and to respect guns. Kids that are sheltered from them are the ones that kill or are killed by them each year. Just remember, you will never find a hunter safety certificate in the back pocket of a gang banger.

Continuing off topic, does anyone know the statistics of homeowners being sued by intruders who were shot after breaking into the homeowner's house? I don't know too much about gun regulations--what types of laws need to be in place in order for this not to happen to guntoting property protectors/homeowners?

My 40 + personal history with guns in the home is 0 deaths or shootings and one intruder. The dog got to him first, lucky for him.

Well, Officerfriendly, rustytrombone, etc. Here are a few things just to consider: In 2005, nearly 8 children and teenagers, ages 19 and under, were killed with guns everyday. The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home. Any idea of the statistics of your home being broken into? A lot lower than those listed above. Majormojo,
I truly hope that you don't have children running around while you are "sleeping well at night with a .500 cal smith and wesson" on your nightstand. But, whatever it takes to get a good nights sleep, right? Hopefully you don't sleep too soundly, otherwise an intruder could swing in, grab your gun off the nightstand, and you'd end up being a statistic.

I agree with rusty trombone, I sleep well at night with my .500 cal smith and wesson on my nightstand.

The gun-grabbing foes of the 2nd Amendment are fond of compromises (those which lead to more restrictions on gun rights) so I'll offer one for them. Let's have Shall Issue concealed weapons carry permits issued everywhere in Wisconsin for the next 10 years except within the city limits of Madison and the city limits of Milwaukee. Let's ban firearms possession except by police officers (only sworn officers - no armed private rent-a-cops for the wealthy) for the next ten years within the city limits of Madison and the city limits of Milwaukee. After 10 years, we'll review the changes in demographics and crime rates, ok?

lets all become ninja's

In many places, large and small, total gun bans have been tried without producing the anticipated benefits. Yet ban advocates ignore the results in those places and continue to push for bans. It's true that if you are intimidated by guns, you should stay away from them for your own sake. But to assert that if law abiding citizens are allowed to keep and carry their guns, the streets will be littered with bodies, as some do claim, is a nonsensical, emotional argument designed to persuade based on fear, which is far easier to do than to persuade based on logic. Weapons were invented to allow the smaller and weaker to defend themselves against the large and powerful, some of whom believe that might makes right. They used to call the Colt 45 "The Great Equalizer". What can we use as an alternative, that is just as effective and at your fingertips when you need it?

I'm still of the opinion that an attacker (robber, rapist, etc.) is prepared for an attack and catching a "gun-wielding" victim off-guard can be even more traumatic for the victim. (Of course, nothing can be more traumatic than the loss of a life due to senseless acts such as this.)

Unfortunately, I DON'T know where the studies were done, etc. for those who want verifiable proof, but studies have shown that more victims have their weapon used against them if they have it "for protection". We have had police officers give trainings called S.A.F.E. (in Rock County) S.A.F.E stands for Self defense, Awareness, Familiarization and Exchange. The program is taught by police officers and is designed to educate women on how to protect themselves from crime by introducing them to physical training methods. The JPD officer that led our class is Sergeant Donohoue.

I have worked with victims of domestic violence and sexual assault. In every training I have attended, the overtone is: If you are NOT comfortable with shooting a gun, do not buy one. Chances are better that in a life/death situation, you (the inexperienced gun owner) will be the one injured or shot, sometimes with YOUR gun. I am sure that statistically more experienced gun owners have better results in the same situation. Training is important, yes, but unfortunately, I think people buy a gun hoping they never have to use it, and don't take the training as seriously as necessary or don't believe they will need to actually put their training to use. Foolish? perhaps. Dangerous? yes. Does it happen? OH YEAH!

In home protection: the reality is that if someone targets you and wants to get in your home, they will. But, precautions I ALWAYS take as a single person who lives in a slightly "marginal" neighborhood include: closing and locking all windows (including storms) when I am not at home - even when it is warm out. Closing and locking all doors, including screen doors. I don't know the configuration of this young woman's home, but honestly, after I have been gone, I do a quick visual check of my windows from the outside that none have been tampered with before I go in. When I am at home,I keep windows that are not in my immediate vicinity closed and locked. The screen door, if my front door is open, is locked. In fact, I am buying a new storm door that has a deadbolt on it that is all glass with no screen. I never go to bed upstairs with any windows open on the first floor. Once dusk hits, not only do things get locked, but blinds are closed to discourage people checking in on me in the dark, and I close curtains over that. Sadly, I became this way after a complete stranged walked up the front steps of my parents' home and into the house some years back. My mom fought him and got him out, thankfully. A few years later, a sister was harassed by a peeping tom in the evening hours. I may seem a bit paranoid, but I refuse to be a sitting duck. Sometimes, if I realize I have forgotten to close and lock a window up, I call someone on my cell as I enter the house and check it out. It may take an extra minute, but it is worth it in safety.

janesvillecomments, I think you're missing an important point here. In the states that do allow conceal/carry there are very strict rules on where you can be armed. There are signs prohibiting firearms in shopping centers, campuses, and other public venues. Also, in the majority of those states, you only have to pass a background check, you do NOT have to take classes training you on how to use the weapon.

The University in Utah allows concealed carry and they don't have accidental shootings, because the people who are issued permits go through training. They don't have a lot of violent crime at all because the criminals don't know who might be carrying a concealed weapon. Of the 36 Shall Issue states (meaning you don't have to kiss a politician or judge's hind end to get a permit, if you take the training and pass the tests and background checks, the state has to issue you a permit) none of the anti-gun socialist/liberals have been able to report or trump up a report of increased violence due to concealed carry permits being held by their law-abiding citizens. If Doyle hadn't vetoed the passed CCW bill in Wisconsin twice, one of those now-dead people MIGHT have saved themselves by having a gun available.

And I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be a shooting a week if the entire student body had hand guns.

OK, put "in my opinion" onto my last post. I find it hard to believe the student body of VT would kill 36 people if they were issued hand guns.

those were my thoughts too, lakennedy. Your point about kids taking their ipod speaker buds out of their ears is a good start to protecting yourself ON THE STREET. What about in your home--besides buying a gun?

tjncj. Really, how do you know that for certain? No one can be positive of that. No one knows how they will react to that situation until it happens. In the future, tjncj, if you're going to cite a tragedy such as the Virginia Tech. shootings, do so with factual evidence.

lakennedy, if Virginia Tech did that there would have been fewer students killed by guns in the last 12 months on that campus.

It was in the middle of the day after she came back from a test and her fiance was at class. It is not a date rape or anyone breaking in while she was sleeping, it is just like the Joel Marino case from January. I am afraid there is a psycho on the loose.

That's a great idea!!! I can't believe I didn't think of it. I should definitley get a gun. While I'm at it, I'll encourage the other forty thousand students on campus to grab one. Forty thousand armed students coupled with a paranoia-charged atmosphere can only lead to a pleasant outcome. As a matter of a fact, I think the UW system should just issue 9mm's along with your student ID's, housing assignments, etc. GREAT THINKING!!!

Given the scanty details here, it’s too soon to say what you can do to defend yourself. If this was a noisy forced entry while the victim was awake, then a gun – and the nerve required to point and shoot at another human being – could have made the difference. But this could have been a date rape, or a psycho who broke in silently while the victim was sleeping. A gun wouldn’t have helped in either case.

As a student at UW-Madison, I have read the press releases on campus, and the message to the students from the Dean. I wonder how, exactly, using the "Saferide" and "Safewalk" programs are supposed to help us remain more safe? Brittany was stabbed to death IN her apartment. She lived on Doty/Bassett streets. This is not a remote area...and no one has come forward with any information...(at least to my knowledge).

Madison has been hit hard with violent attacks in the past two years. We had a series of rapes on campus last year, and a recent stabbing on Park Street. Despite the advice of security officials on campus, I still see young men and women walking around late at night with their IPOD's stuck in their ears, rendering them incapable of hearing a car, or a person, approaching them. I get extremely frustrated when I see this. Now, in the case of Brittany Zimmerman, she was in the safety of her own home when she was murdered. How, exactly, can we defend ourselves against that?