Your last two comments need specificity and further clarification to justify a response.

Though, I can say from those comments and other comments you've made on other stories, such as the thinking behind your explanation as to why some people get arrested for drunk driving -it's the cop's fault, does much to encourage bad behavior by young people.

Let me correct what I said..."Hitting" is a form of discipline, a bad example sorry. But for the most part we really lack discipline. Look at Asian countries and see how well self disciplined they are. When comparing the way we are and the way we act in situations I think we are like primates. Those characteristics coupled with any weapon is bad news...knife, gun, pipe wrench...People are not seeing the picture clearly. If this guy couldnt have obtained a gun what would have prevented him from using his vehicle for running them down? Or a bat? Or anything? People with this mentality we should send off to war and leave the ones who can think logically and not emotionally here.

Discipline in general....hitting is just one method. I think the lack of has impacted current behaviors a lot, today kids can do whatever they want compared to years ago... And I agree with everything else you said.

Sigma..., not being hit as a child can in no way be the cause of his actions.

And there is no epidemic of violence in this country. The longer our species lasts, the more the rate of violence diminishes. The perception that the rate of violence is increasing stems from increasing media exploitation of the fact that people are entertained by reports of violence. This is not going to change. Therefore, we have a responsibility to understand this phenomena and to stop terrorizing ourselves.

gazettefan - It means that parents are no longer allowed to discipline their children.
If you look at this picture.... the gun shot the people. The guy pulled the trigger on the gun. Why did the guy react that way? He was likely emotionaly distraught and lacked self discipline. Never before had he ever been so angry so he had no clue how to control himself. 99% of the population suffer form this....they get angry, stuff makes them mad. The way to stop this is dont ever get angry. Only YOU allow yourself to get angry, what other people do and things that happen that you cant control have to be interpreted by YOU. Humans are their biggest enemy. If you learned how to control yourself when in a hightened state of anxiety (or would be) you can think rationally. This man who shot these people is no different than the guy who screams out of his car window at someone that cut him off....or anyone that demonstrates anger in any manner based on an action they did not like. The level of it is obviously higher... but its all the same whether you punched a door or shot someone because you were mad...If you dont have the ability to ignore that and control yourself you could be a potential recipe for a future killer. Think about it... if you get a parking ticket and flip out and go home and kick a door....how do you think that person would react if they found out their spouse was cheating on them with their friend? ...or something of the nature. 99% of people would react in somewhat of a violent nature.....what level???? We wait and see.

What does this sentence mean?

"Today people believe that basic discipline is wrong.. spanking, hitting, ..etc."

Basically in a society where we are disliking discipline more and more, we are seeing more and more violent people. Imagine that.
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The education system is a part of the failure because they teach what is right and wrong. Today people believe that basic discipline is wrong.. spanking, hitting, ..etc. Look where its going. Look what its gotten us. If you are stupid and naive and think its not relative and probable.... you're part of the problem.

It is unknown if the gun he used was a "cheap gun". If he bought the firearm at a dealer, he would have lied on the 4473, a form one must fill out, he would have been committing a felony by lying on this form. There is no evidence that existing gun laws were enforced in a "lax" manner. He would have been prevented from possessing or buying a firearm because of the restraining order she had against him. He broke that law, also.

The politicians who are tap dancing on these victims graves by re-introducing the bill that would require a subject of a d.v. restraining order to surrender his firearms are handily dancing away from reality. The criminal purchased the gun after the time he would have surrendered his firearms. There is no reason to believe that the criminal would surrender all of his firearms. There is no reason to believe that the criminal would not resort to using a knife or a machete. There are over 20,000 gun laws on the books nationwide. That should be enough, if laws were the solution to the problem of murderers.

He was a criminal doing criminal acts. If there is any laxness, or negligence to be looked at, it might be the instance when he was seen by the police pointing a rifle at his wife a while back. That was a key incident that should have caused his arrest on the spot. That is the golden moment that something could have been done and nothing was done. Questions should be asked.

He was a criminal doing several criminal acts. He found his victims, just waiting to be slaughtered. If you females, or anyone else find yourselves in a position that could lead up to this type of a tragedy and yourselves becoming a statistic, I strongly suggest that you consider arming yourselves and getting a bit of training and having the means to defend yourselves against this type of crazy violence. Get yourselves the ability to shoot the s.o.b. and do it.

If you managed to come to the conclusion stated in the last part of your last post on your own, how is the educational system responsible for the behavior of people who don't come to that same conclusion?

Another reason I think the American education system has failed. They dont teach self discipline or how to deal with emotions. This is stuff that sparkes every road rage, shooting, domestic violence attack...everything. Also a reason you see so many relationships failing now. I avoid drama and live a very peaceful life. I wish I could help but the problem is...no one wants to hear it how it is and realize that personal accountability and self discipline is a major part. If you master those you will never have a problem ever. Its like breaking a bad habbit... its all psychological. If deep inside you dont really want to do it... You wont.

Sigma40:
We've had this "leaving an abuser is easy" discussion before. I invite you to join us for a tour of the YWCA. Also, if you're available, please come to Blackhawk Technical College at noon today to hear Teri Nicolai speak about her past. Greg Peck does an excellent job describing it in his Opinion Matters blog entry.

Thanks,
Beth Tallon, YWCA

We must never mitigate what the assailant does.

So do we ban marriage licenses to those with criminal pasts also? maybe not let couples live together that have violent pasts? That would greatly reduce "domestic" violence. I would actually prefer the violence be left IN the house.. That way it dont spill over into the community and hurt inocent people like this crap. The sad part is that everyone that has a violent partner knows it....and they stay with them. No one should ever get hurt or killed but come on people.. people need to quit dragging relationships on and just walk if they are violent. Its real easy...unless you got mental issues.

Your facts are incorrect. Yes she was granted a temp restraining order, but that order was made permanent for 4 years days before the shooting. Regardless restraining orders clearly are are not worth the paper they are written on when you're dealing with people as disturbed as this man. The key is protecting victims. It is unclear whether he turned in his weapons, however the weapon used in the shooting was purchased 1 day before the shooting. I think it's very significant that this man pointed what appeared to be a weapon at his wife while she was standing outside her home with the Brown Deer police in Jan 2011. After a 90 min standoff police left because she said she didn't fear for her safety & reported that he didn't own any weapons. I think head needs to roll at Brown Deer PD as this is clearly not how a standoff situation should be left.

A great reminder Beth that these incidents are not just happening to "others" far away but happen in our own communities to and by people we have known.

It should be noted to all the Charlton Heston types, that this guy was was ordered to relinquish all his firearms, two days before he bought another one, from a private owner. Then used it to kill these innocent people. Guess we know what a 40 caliber semi auto weapon is good for.

In general TROs do work; it's the early period where danger is highest.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...
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There are no easy answers here. Clearly we can't jail someone who hasn't done anything "yet" and a TRO can be a tool for making even minor offenses a reason to confine someone. I hope continuing experimentation can devise a method that offers more protection in the early hours, days, or weeks, but ultimately the key may be short-circulating the cycle of the relationship before it turns violent.

slickster, we can never know for sure. But one thing's for sure, we must not mitigate what the assailant does.

This is the applicable definition:

do·mes·tic
[duh-mes-tik] Show IPA
adjective
of or pertaining to the home, the household, household affairs, or the family

All violence in America is domestic. Im sick of people thinking violence between couples needs special attention. An act of violence is an act of violence.

You both are correct. In very few cases a restraining order works the way they should. Unfortunately they are usually gas to a small burning flame that is need of something to really ignite. So sad

Good comment Slickster....
That restraining order stating NO BUYING Guns should require immediate surrender of any firearms. Not 48 hours.
We have our priorities wrong, as these restraining orders mean about as much as toilet paper, due to the difficulty, as well as non enforcement.

I'm not sure what the answer is but it seems to me that a restraining order is an order that is issued against an individual who has demonstated a history of a lack of a restraint. Seems that the restraining order often ignites the type of behavior that it is designed to extinguish.