Do the crime Do the time
How simple can it be
If you do not have room inside the jail put them in tent's

They should be incarcerated AND have to WORK during their period incarceration. Sitting at home on diversion watch TV or coming in a couple days a week to participate in make-work programs is NOT going to change anyone's behavior -- just wait and see!

In addition, the savings vs. costs of these programs rarely factor in all of the direct and indirect personnel and management time, facility space, office equipment and electronics, vehicles, and unpaid monitoring equipment fees, which if properly accounted for likely make the program a wash as far as real savings.

DO THE MATH!

Read more carefully the courts are over crowded
now,the jails are over crowded,there is not enough money for public defenders,there is not enough money for extra patrols,there is not enough money for more parole officers,There are not enough juvenile personell for young offenders.There is not enough money for anything. Every time someone does not show up for the program or does not show up for court,someone has to go get an arrest warrant send someone to go get them have someone process them add them back to the court docket in other words where is the savings?

Here's an article about how diversion programs are working in Dane County:
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/cr...
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Dane has gone from expensively renting beds from other counties to earning income from the state for housing a particular type of short-term inmate (for which the state is saving money, too, by not going through expensive court proceedings).

It's a great idea.
Incarceration doesn't work. Many get out only to offend again. Nothing is solved. Inmates don't benefit, society doesn't benefit.
I have my doubts that shoveling snow or raking leaves will reform anybody. But I do know that locking them up like animals will only increase the disconnect between them and the rest of society. They will become more hostile towards society and gain a network of criminal contacts.
Work programs does offer a way to pay ones dues and maintain some dignity.
Obviously incarceration is to protect law abiding citizens from dangerous individuals, so work programs can't be for everybody. Unless you want to go back to chain-gang work camps.

I'm not sure that helping the elderly and other vulnerable people is a good idea for criminals... period.

Through this program, they learn soo much about the vulnerable people. SO, with that said, these criminals would PROBABLY return to those homes and allow their Criminal Personality come out.

They worked at Rotary gardens, Riverside park and the vegetable gardens at Rock Haven, I think this is what they need, many of them learned valueable lessons, and they said so. you probably will always have a bad apple but I say give them a chance.

TrueCitizen:
Not sure which numbers you don't believe but the Professor has them right and his conclusion that if a business got the same kind of results they would not survive.
Sentence's are too arbitrary and excessive which a.) fills all the beds (see recent court decision in California on overcrowding)and b.)accomplish very little that benefit the offenders.
You do seem to have a genuine interest though and might find some interesting perspective - at www.PrisonLegalnews.org - there is more than one side to this very big subject, most of which involves the 8th Ammendment prohibition against cruel and inhuman punishment. It is unfortunate that the popular mood these days seems to be "the crueler and the more inhumane" the better. Too bad.
What harm does some work release actually do? Anything we do to give offenders a chance to re-integrate themselves back into society can't possibly be bad - right?
DBG

Yes, they save money from being used to house out of county and save bed space in the jail. Take into consideration though that staffing cost is usually 70% of operating something like this and they have 13 people assigned to it with probably an average of 3 off for color days so they have 10 people supervising less than 200 inmates. The main jail usually has around 500 inmates and they have 14-15 people assigned to that. I think they need to reconsider the staffing, also the inmates are suppose to pay a daily fee to be on these programs but this is not enforced so the amount of money we are being told we are saving is not as high as some think because it is spent elsewhere.

truecitizen, it's almost impossible to rebut your objections that seem to be based in your own personal reality. Your first comment about attitude reveals, in fact, your own attitude toward compliance is based in punishment. Yet we know that we already punish people more than any other country on the planet, and punishment is obviously not working, so why more punishment would work better is something you're going to have to make a better case for.
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The fact is that the courts are not here to correct "attitude" but behavior. These people are screened, and they already consist of those who would have the highest probability of yes, learning their lesson. Staff requirements are reduced and costs are lower, not higher. The bus allows the program to expand, although if you know of a bus that the county had hidden away it could use instead, perhaps you should call the Sheriff and let him know in which garage it is stored.
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You say they need to be "screened more stringently", but you don't even have a reason -- just your own personal hunch. It's a program that requires inmates to comply or they face further court sanctions. And so forth. If your objections were based in reality, at least, it would make some sense, but you say you don't even trust the Sheriff's own statistics. I don't know how to respond to that.
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If you're going to result to simplistic mottos like "tough love is all that works", well, you haven't defined any terms and can always say that something isn't "tough" enough for you. In fact this is an aggressive program of compliance with carrots and sticks and people have to both show that they're ready for it and succeed within it.

I have seen the workenders in action myself. I can tell you they (most) really do work hard and although they could set it out in jail eating, sleeping and watching tv etc...to pay off their fine, instead they choose to work for the community.
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This seems to be a good program and has worked well so far. As for the need for a bus, yes they do need one. I can tell you we had about a dozen or more workenders help at setting up at community events such as fair, Thresheree, etc...Without them these events wouldn't be able to operate as smoothly as they do.
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Personally I like the program, it makes the offender do something to pay back what they owe, rather than just sit it out. I hope they do work for those who can't shovel their walk/driveways this winter. I know several people who could use that kind of help and would appreciate it greatly.

I think these programs are great. I do admit to limited knowledge of how they are handled but I believe there is a screening program in place for these programs. It was the weekender program that helped with last year's disasterous flooding--filling sandbags where ever there was a need. They were monitored by a deputy, transported in a van, fed by the Red Cross (just like everybody else) and worked hard. Using these programs to benefit the communities is a good idea. And shoveling snow for the elderly would be a great way to give back to the community. I think we should encourage the use of these programs, getting offenders involved with other people in a positive manner. The recidivism rate being what it is, what do we have to lose??

At over 2.3 million people, the United States has more people incarcerated than any other civilized country. Yet we say we are the 'free-est' country in the world. And, despite the fact that about 95% of those incarcerated will someday get out, we've long ago given up any REAL thought of rehabilitation, so we still deal with a recidivism rate of between 70-85%. (How long could one stay in business, if whatever it produced, had a 70-85% failure rate?). Prison/jail is certainly needed for some individuals. But, we are way too quick to want to make incarceration the first line of punishment for WAY too many offenses. I, therefore, applaud the use of diversions.

I do agree with you that controling these people comes from within. The reality is that many of these offenders simply are not easily changed by sittingin jail. You are forgetting many people in jail are financially challenged, therefore 3 hots and a cot is not that bad of a deal. This is addition to the fact that many of their "co-workers" for lack of a better term, are also incarcerated. This gives them an opportunity to catch up, realign there actions with what is going on in real time, and move forward.
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I am not trying to sway your opinion, you are certainly entitled to it. I am simply saying that the reality is there is way too much money being thrown into the criminal justice system, that something needs to be done. I would certainly doubt that violent offenders are getting on a bus to go do commmunity service. Not that I am saying that non-violent crimes should be ignored, but in some cases, saving some bed days, and bettering the community, if even in a small way can be more beneficial to the community as a whole.

I see your last sentence (the challenge) is seemingly a string tugger. I don't sway easily.

Until we stop producing these people who won't follow the rules, I'll pay those taxes. But I think it is more a matter of application than just money. It seems like a hot button topic which may be getting abused, in order to push agendas and self-pandering motives. I do not believe those numbers and I think it is misleading. I want proof from (if possible) an unbaised source! Furthermore, what about the accountability and public safety???????? You realize it comes down to wether or not we as a common group in our society, are going to continue to back up and draw new lines in the sand. The offenders really are out of control. Simply diverting them and shifting things around will solve nothing in the end. As for these budget meetings, I will be read to----whatever they want me to hear, period. I choose to look at the end result. If the county has saved this money, (?), then maybe they should do a few things with it.
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Not "putting the hammer down" will only delay that inevitable. But I think we can both agree, that we need to reach out to the households, schools, and offenders to try and sway the tide a little. I certainly do so already. Tough-love is all that works, or we shall agree to disagree, maybe.

truecitizen, I welcome your comments when your taxes go up to pay for the added bed days, "regardless of crowding in the jails." There is no perfect solution to anything involved in the criminal justice system. You put the hammer down, and the taxes required to pay for it throws the half community into an uproar. You become more lenient to keep taxes lower, and it throws the other part of the community into an uproar.

When you look at the county website, and actually do some reading, you will see in the last couple years there has been nearly $3 million saved by not having inmates housed out of county as a result of programs such as workender, RECAP, and etc.

The county budget meetings are coming up in the next couple weeks, with a public hearing 11/4/09 at 6pm. I will be there, and encourage you to come to push for a higher budget for the Sheriff's Office so they can pay for the added bed days which would result from your plan.

I challenge you to fight for mroe funding, and make sure you tell the county board you are not bothered by higher taxes to do so.

First of all, what about the deterance? These individuals (most anyway), have real attitude towards the system, and don't get it through their brains that they are at fault. Secondly, what about the duty to the public, safety, etc. Mainly an issue with electronic monitoring of longer term sentence inmates. Third, what about the maintenance of these programs. The staff they have applied to them isn't full coverage and many times the application is done by on duty deputies and other staff who are already on duty with regular patrol or jail duties, basically taking them away from there duties to the public. Fourth, I don't think we are hearing about the flip-side costs in all of this. I can't believe a bus was needed for a couple dozen week end workers, and there are already vehicles in the department's fleet. How many staff are needed? Would they be better suited for assisting in the jail, with these reletively few week end workers made to sit out the fines?
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I believe it is an appearance to the public, with little practical value. These subjects should be screaned more strigently before receiving monitoring status, and the week enders should be dissolved, to sit out their fines. I have said it before too...it is not just simple speeding tickets from common joes. Further more, if you can committ to constant offenses (usually in between longer jail time offenses) then you can pay for your anti-social behavior.
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At the very least I insist, the numbers be shown. For example, how about showing the statistics of the people on the monitoring program's prior visits to the jail or other jails? How about showing the exact charges of those being allowed to work off their fines. All of this can be done without names, and as a general charted statistic. Our communities continue to get less moral and more crazy each year, but until this trend subsides, should we allow for more lax response? (i.e.) A guy doesn't pay child support, so he is allowed to sit at home and watch football all weekend and what ever else. A felony offender drunk driver can stay out of jail, just because it is full? What's next folks?!! There was a statistic out a few years back which showed that nearly a third of all incarcerated inmates in a specific county jail had a state-assisted medical coverage as primary, when they were arrested. I feel like we are going down the wrong path, and we should draw the line, regardless of crowding at the jails.
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Perhaps other more viable LEARNING programs can be focused on, to help stop this behavior. They have something like that, but it seems to be out of touch. Maybe a new start is needed?