On Janesville City Council to consider SHINE agreement
Posted on February 10 at 5:50 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
youkillme, you're pretty vocal about this, but what's your alternate plan? Make a wish?
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RockEnvironmentalNetwork and luvujvl, I doubt that they can make a facility application or complete any environmental impact plans before securing a site. It just doesn't work that way.
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JohnWicket, the purpose of a TIF is _not_ tax relief, but tax base improvement, and as far as I know it's almost impossible for a TIF to make a "profit". The increment (the higher tax rate derived from the development of the property) must by law be used for specific purposes within or in close proximity to the district itself -- roads, sewers, and other infrastructure being the primary such investment, although broader community-benefiting improvements are also possible (e.g. developing a park). The ideal situation for a TIF is that at the end of the term (currently maximum 27 years) it closes out with a zero account. AFTER that point, the property taxes accrue to the general fund. It's quite likely, for example, that the M&I bank building -- in one of the first Janesville TIF districts -- began contributing to the general fund for its increased value some years ago already (after paying, for the duration, property taxes based on the blighted/undeveloped value of the site beforehand).
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The money for this subsidy package will, all things being nominal, come out of future property taxes paid into the TIF by SHINE. (Temporarily, the city will borrow against the future value of the TIF. But the biggest parts of the package won't even kick in until certain development milestones.) The risk is real, of course, that the process may not complete for some unforeseen reason, and the $4 million loan guarantee is thus one of the biggest potential losses for taxpayers to cover, but much of the remaining investment -- streets and sewers, for example -- would still be usable by any future successor resident in the business park. Again, this does not affect the current general fund directly. Those expenses get charged to TIF 35.
On Washington state poised to approve gay marriage
Posted on February 9 at 4:46 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
orange, you may want to examine your map and see where Washington is. Not to mention Iowa.
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New England and the Northeast generally have been more liberal than the rest of the country for decades, though. Where have you been?
On Council to consider SHINE agreement
Posted on February 9 at 4:42 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
hdonlybob, the print article from today was just posted and details some of the conditions that must be met for disbursement and loan forgiveness. This isn't a bag of cash on a desk and a handshake.
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Janesville has developed 35 TIFs -- they probably have a little experience in how it's done.
On Darting to work: Wisconsin workers could fill Belvidere jobs
Posted on February 9 at 4:04 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
45-50 minutes to work is pretty typical for anyone living in the Chicago suburbs and working downtown. A few places, like New York, have hundreds of thousands of workers accustomed to much longer commutes.
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The US economy generally does have a disconnect between where jobs are and where people live and how easy it is to get there.
On Open house lets SHINE meet community, answer questions
Posted on February 9 at 3:53 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
youkillme, you're a little wrapped up in your high-and-mighty rhetoric, and I'm not inclined to play into your philosophical or moral equations. The TIF district is simply a tool allowing public investment that has been around for a couple of generations, and is widely used -- though the rules vary by state -- across the country. It's not something suddenly sprung upon us. As a pragmatist, I evaluate it based on the cost and risk, much as laid out in today's print article. You deride that and prefer to make it a moral argument. Well, that's your own (kinda weird) cross to bear. To my mind, there is no such thing as a truly free market, and the democratic system should allow for public interventions in that market to benefit the people. What I will defend about the TIF system is that it enforces certain rules and builds in a lot of accountability and transparency. Without it, we would surely have much worse corruption, and the more insidious for being hidden.
On Concerns raised about child advocacy center site
Posted on February 9 at 4:59 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Why is there a FIVE acre minimum parcel size? How is this compatible with Smart Growth requirements? Such a requirement seems to guarantee sprawl and farmland destruction.
On Open house lets SHINE meet community, answer questions
Posted on February 9 at 4:19 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
youkillme, in the real world it is often difficult to prove a negative case. We can never know whether in a world without subsidies Janesville could have been selected. But that world does not exist.
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The legal test for TIF development is, however, just that. You can look up the language at the DOR.
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/pubs/slf/tif/c...
The "but for" test is the critical basis for valid TIF development.
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/pubs/slf/tif/5...
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It seems that you are implying that Janesville should not have offered these incentives to SHINE, and hope to win the plant regardless. The real world situation, however, is that the competing cities, also in Wisconsin, had access to the same TIF legal structure as we do, and the development likely would have gone to one of them.
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I do not myself know if the public investment per job is a cost worth the gain. It is difficult to know, due to confidentiality of negotiations, what other cities were offering and even, ourselves, what other factors were being weighed. Madison has adopted a public, viewable TIF policy, and I don't know whether Janesville has such a document; I think it would be a good idea. It would allow us to proceed within a framework rather than evaluating each case separately.
http://www.cityofmadison.com/planning/TI...
On Washington state poised to approve gay marriage
Posted on February 8 at 5:20 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The number of states where same-sex marriage is legal could potentially double this year.
On Open house lets SHINE meet community, answer questions
Posted on February 8 at 5:15 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
youkillme, the statutory requirement for TIF development is that it would not happen "but for" the subsidy available through the TIF. If it would have happened anyway, the TIF money should not be used.
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On Do opponents have merit in opposing gravel pit?
Posted on February 10 at 6:06 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It's unlikely there's a good mining location just sitting there already zoned for mining that isn't being mined right now. I'm not sure why that would be the case, actually.
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Shopierehuh is correct -- this is the normal legal process allowing for public input. The residents get to have their say. A conditional use permit is a public benefit offered through the democratic process. There is no unlimited right to use of property regardless of the impact on the community -- that's why we have zoning in the first place. The community may be able to develop a compromise as far as truck traffic, sightlines, or later mitigation, so ultimately the process isn't necessarily either/or.