Two city schools fall short in 'yearly progress'

I think its important for teacher's to realize as well. IF you are not going to be responsible for the students you say you 'can't ' teach, for what ever reason, then you don't get take credit for one the ones that succeed. All that credit goes to their parents. Because according to all you teacher's who posted on here, if a child fails it the parents fault. YOU don't get to have it both ways.

rlms has made an important point about advocating for your child. Nobody has the interests of you child at heart as much as you do. I have found out that this is critical for all children, not just students enrolled in special education. Our daughters have qualified for GT programming. Their strong suit is language arts, but they make a strong showing in math as well. When our oldest began to complain about being bored in math in 4th grade, I asked for her to be placed in the accelerated class. "It's too late." I was told. We worked with the teacher all year to give her additional materials to challenge her. When it came time to enroll her in the class for 5th grade, the teacher forgot about this despite the fact that it had been a focal point of 3 conferences, the latest one 2 months prior to placements. I had to pound tables and shout to the rafters to get her the challenge she needed. They were extremely reluctant to give her this challenge and she segued into the accelerated class without a hitch, going from all A's to all A's. We are currently experiencing the same issue with our second daughter.

The point of this story is to show how persistant one needs to be to successfully advocate for your child. A healthy self image is also required, as well as an ability to buck the system. My observation of human behavior leads me to conclude that most people do not possess the requisite combination of traits to advocate relentlessly for their kids. Most people do not like to be a pain in the backside. My question has always been and remains to this day: Why should parents have to get testy about this stuff? Why don't educators recognize when a student needs differential instruction and provide it automatically? What happens to the vast majority of children whose parents don't have the time, energy or personality traits to challenge the status quo? Worst case scenario, they graduate without knowing how to read.

This is where the public schools need to focus their efforts in this debate. They need to figure out how to improve the dialog with parents and serve each student's individual needs.

Oh yeah, just a reminder...
Yes, the ultimate responsibility is for the parents to work with there children to succeed, but what is that phrase?

It takes a community to raise a child!!!

Step up to the plate you nay-sayers!!

WHAT!?!!??!! Janesville is not the perfect little school district? Welcome to the real world Janesville-- you are going to have just as many shortfalls as the rest of us.

Once again, can Janesville learn to ask for the help of Beloit in getting through this? After all, Beloit truly knows how to handle their shortfalls as best as we can.

So what are tax payers paying for? Its not the teacher's job? Hello?? Why do they collect a salary , the last post alone shows completely whats wrong with public schools. Don't want to deal with issues, don't want to be a responsible employee ? Go work in a office some where , where you can shuffle papers all day. Would not want you teaching our kids.

The primary responsibility for education rests with the student himself. You cannot educate the disinterested.
Parents bear the bulk of the remaining responsibility for education in that they must see that the child is prepared and motivated.
Many students and parents shirk their educational responsibilities, expecting the public schools to take up the duties they refuse. Because of this, public schools are chaotic places scourged with students who defy authority, prey upon fellow students and attempt to intimidate staff. Due to state mandates and compulsory attendance laws as well as disciplinary restrictions, schools are limited in their ability to control or remove disruptive students. The net result is that even the most motivated students are underserved.
The popular culture is pervasive within the public schools with its twisted concepts of morality and its emphasis on gratification, neither of which is compatible with quality education. The public schools seem both unwilling and unable to counter that influence since they do little to control its presence within the schools.
Many teachers start off their careers enthusiastically with great expectations and high ideals but are worn down over time by the futility inherent within the public school system. Some of the best teachers leave for more rewarding pursuits while a few become transformed over time into cynical shadows of their former selves doing little more than the absolute minimum to maintain their employment while nearly constantly grumbling about how little they are paid.
The future of public education is bleak. Real solutions cannot be achieved as all the interested parties are deflecting responsibility from themselves and attempting to direct it elsewhere. Some within the system suggest that only “professionals” can find solutions, attempting to close the door on suggestions from parents and the public believing that only they, the educational elite, know what’s best for public schools.
Between the irresponsible parents, the predatory students, the cynical teachers and administrators whose primary interests seem to be something other than education, all of whom constitute a small but growing fraction of the whole, they make it nearly impossible for a motivated student to acquire a quality education in the public school setting.

I will only advocate for students with special needs. Some times how ever there are students that should be getting services and are not. Either because the parent has not figured it out yet, or the school just wants them to behave.

It does cost the school money to test students for special services but it is much better to do that, than let a child fall through the 'cracks'.

I have witness several children a year that it is clear to me should be receiving services and is not.

But then you also have parents who don't want to admit their child may be add, adhd or worse
and does nothing. To many parents and teacher's a like just do not understand mental illness.

But that does not mean the school has to sit back and do nothing.

A supervisor was commenting to me about a child I work with about how far along he had come.

Yes he has, considering kids in the main stream classroom get into as much trouble if not more than he did this year.

Some kids are just stinkers. I have found if those kids have a mentor, some one who they can look up to but also have to answer to it makes a big difference.

I know when my kids come home and complain about something that happened at school be it
either teacher or another student related.

I make sure they understand that I had better be getting the full story, not just their side of things.

Just like schools like to claim they are never to blame, I want to make sure I know the entire story first.

Most times things work them selves out.

But when it comes to working with kids that get services, I have personally witnessed and had to deal with way to many issues and public schools.

rims...Very well said.I would like to make it very clear,I was NOT talking about the students with I.E.P's.I'm talking about the normal(what ever that is) students that can't/won't behave in school so everyone can do what needs to be done in the classroom.As a parent we have all we can do for our kids,let alone what teachers have to do for 150 plus kids a day.I couldn't do/see what you or others do everyday and not walkout at the end of the day in tears.THANK YOU for working with children !!!

NO I am not going to post what he said in our emails. That would be wrong. But I wanted to give him some thing to think about as he admitted in these emails , that yes there are issues.

I have been thinking a lot the last few days about my high school years and they were good.

My teachers were great. But I behaved myself.
The only odd thing I remember was the gym teacher teaching math as well.

I think some of the students understood it better than he did, but he tried and he worked with the students who struggled until they got it.

I remember all the teacher's going above and beyond, as long the effort was there by the students.

But what I witness today as a parent, is not what I had in high school. Schools have become much, much different. In part due to politics. I also work with students, and I see all sorts of different issues.

There are more great teachers than not so great. But it is a difficult time.

I work with kids who are disabled. At times I feel like I 'protect' the kids who are disabled either by mental or physical issues.

There has to be a very close working relationship between the case managers of kids with I.E.P.S and the home base teachers.

Many of the issues I see with teacher's and students is teachers are just not fully aware of the diagnosis and what it means and what needs to be done.

I lay that issue at the feet of the case mgr(special ed teacher.) . But at the same
time some of these special ed teachers have over 30 kids each, and that is a lot of kids to have that have special needs. They are over
whelmed some thing has to change.

My co-worker works within the Evansville School district and right now the E.B.D. room at the high school has 40+ kids in it. ONE teacher.
They are advocating for change in that district. Many issues there.

I think we can all agree as well that not all
kids due well in a academic setting and that is why charter and virtual schools are a great option.

But the virtual/charter schools did not due so well in the Janesville district either.

Not all districts are the same, not all teachers are the same. There is no denying that.

rims...In all fairness what was said in emails to you should not be shared we others !You ask why ,because when anyone speaks out on what goes on in this district they are the trouble makers.At times that can be a good thing,other times it gets turned around on that person/student.It takes more than just a parent to ask their child what they did in school that day,parents need to ask the hard questions to get the hard/true answers. Anyone that cares enough to be involved at their kids schools really does know/sees what goes on .It's not the teachers JOB to deal with the kids with behavior issues,it the administion.I said back in Jan.when 30 teachers from PHS did the sickout ,it's not that they wanted a contract more they just wanted SUPPORT from the administors.Parents need to parent,teachers need to teach and the administors need to know/care what parents,students and teachers need from them.That doesn't happen enough from what I have seen and been involved with.Teachers,counslers and yes even the school social workers are told NOT to address the issue,they are told that downtown will deal with it.When you (parent)goes downtown to lodge your complaints they look at you like you have 3 heads because no one knows what you are talking about.In my case it was pushed under the rug and nothing was ever done about it.The support that I did get came from the TEACHERS !!!

This part go cut off my other post.

If anyone is interested in the real scoop on schools , a bigger picture. Go to the D.P.I. website.Since these teacher's claim this is just one test.
It gives fact and figures on each school in the state. No. of students who did not graduate, truancy, testing %, complaints against your school, etc. This really gives a good picture of what your school does and does not due.

You can also call the D.P.I. if you have a question about something your school is doing or not doing.

You can file a complaint with the D.P.I., and unlike what the school may tell you. You do not have to file a complaint with the school first.

The D.P.I. also has a special education dept, and they can also answer questions about your child's special needs. They can also refer you to other agency's for more help.

Bigger schools can offer more services, they have more money.

Don't let these schools blame you or your child. They may try to tell you they don't have enough money.(this actually happened to a parent I work with.) This is not your problem this is
theirs. They have to offer services regardless.

If your child sees a psych,or counselor get a letter placed in your child's folder with what ever diagnosis and what the school should be doing. Bring the counselor with you to the I.E.P. meeting if you can.

There are many , many things you can do to make your child's school years successful.

Like I tell parents, you need to be respectful when dealing with the school staff.
However don't worry about them liking you.

You need to advocate for your child, because they won't.

You need to be the one to make sure your child is getting what ever services your child needs.

If anyone is interested in the real scoop on schools , a bigger picture. Since these teacher's claim this is just

The teacher's on here keep pointing fingers, yet who was it that graduated students that could not read and write?? Not the parents.

The schools in know way had to graduate those students, they just wanted them out of there.

They wanted them to become someone else's problem. They failed those students. No amount of placing blame or excuses will change that.

So go the the D.P.I., check out facts and figures. Get a report from the O.C.R..

Also educate your selves about the law and when you should be filing a complaint against a school district and when not to.

Violating I.E.P.s is a civil offense.

Visit your kids schools often, come and see them just because.

Keep close contact with their teacher's.

If some thing is wrong. Make suggestions not
demands.

IF they won't try your suggestion with out first giving you a reasonable explanation call for a meeting.

I had a situation with a teacher, who never returned phone calls, I felt like I was chasing them around each and every time I wanted to talk with them. I finally went to the school administrator and I finally got return calls and answers.

IF there is a problem document each and everything. Nothing is to small or to big.

know your child's i.e.p. yourself. Know the laws regarding I.E.P.S. ,, If there is a behavioral issue , address it immediately. Don't become part of the problem your self.

There is a group called. Wisconsin Facets, (just type that in,) and they can help you with your child , their I.E.P. and the schools if there is a problem. They will go with you to meetings. They will explain the laws to you. There are many, and the school won't tell you about all of them, if any.

Truthfully the parents hold the reigns in terms of their child's education, take advantage of it. Don't just sit back and be a spectator.

If the school refuses to put something into your child's I.E.P. that you want put in.
You call Wisconsin Facets and they will help you.

IF the school absolutely is refusing to work with you and your child's I.E.P issues you can take them to court at the school's expense and the Judge will decide if they should be offering more or different services. This is
EXTREME, though. Most schools are willing to work with the parents, as long as you are a active parent and you LISTEN as well as you TALK.

AS for the aide issue, there should be more aides like this aide who reported this staff member. IF my child was being harmed I would want some one to call me, wouldn't you? You have no idea what the situation was , but you assume it was the child's fault. From what I read, the staff member resigned. Clearly something bad had happened.

MOC0428 SHAME ON YOU.. I think I should go ahead and post what you told me through our emails. IT proves you know what goes on in public schools is not all good. Look for the posts later today. Your wife works for the school district, she should be able to appreciate what you are saying.

The situation in Evansville, that curtain call was speaking of. In short, the person who did this to this student resigned instead of being fired. It was quite serious. IEPs are not in any way a crutch but that does not stop teachers from violating them. Which is a civil offense. A lot of teacher's will provoke kids with disability's emotional or physical just because they have no clue how to deal with them. FAR more good teacher's out there VS bad. But they are NOT all good. As for spelling and grammar??? ' why teach' might want to invest in a word processor her/him self. TEACHERS ARE PAID TO TEACH, and they schools failed and all you can do is point fingers and place blame. YOU sound guilty.... I also know you don't have your administration supporting you or backing you up, WHAT does that say???? There is NO excuse for these schools not passing. IT is pretty sad you can't admit when you are beaten as you are.

I bet it is because there weren't enough minority recruits. It is a conspiracy, I just know it....

Why_teach: Well said!

Curtain call,
By the way, why don't you have Terry read your previous posts on this article and then ask him if he would want you as an aide in his room. I also wanted to comment on something else you said earlier about hearing things from students that teachers and administrators would never want to hear. You aren't in the classroom to be the students friend. You are their to aide their learning. So stop gossiping with them and help them work harder. Stop being their buddy and start being a role model. Stop giving them excuses by blaming teachers and start helping them be responsible for thier part of the education system. Wake up, the education of a child is equally dependant upon the actions of the teacher, the parent and what some are forgetting the STUDENT.

Curtain call
In one breath you say that teachers should be responsible for their actions and that if kids aren't doing well it is the teachers fault. Teachers should be responsible and do their jobs. Yet in the other breath, numerous times in fact, you say that kids with IEP's should not have to take the test. In a previous post you said that parents and teachers have ways of allowing them to not take the test. You used a doctors excuse. If you are an aide, I hope you never, never teach in a school that I work in. Half the kids with IEP's are kids that need them to learn better, the other half have had them because they got into trouble or didn't do well one year and have learned to adapt to what the IEP says and not learned to overcome a deficiency of some sort and do extra work to get to the same level as an "average student". IEP's were formed to help students with learning disabiliies not to give students a reason to not have to try harder because they aren't as smart as someone else. To make a long story short, quit leaning on a IEP as a cruch, because what is your kid going to do when he/she graduates and gets a job? Their employer will laugh if they say they only need to do 3/4 the work of other employees because they don't learn well. Teach your kid to work extra hard to reach the same level as other kids and stop blaming the teachers?

I'd like to clarify my comment regarding 100% failure of NCLB by 2014. The statistical bell curve dictates that the vast majority of students fall in the midrange of the curve with a few notable students excelling and, of course, a few students failing. This is a statistical truth in every population. Unless schools find some way to disqualify those few students at the low end of the bell curve from counting in the NCLB calculation, no school will have 100% of its student body score proficient or advanced on the WKCE.

Perhaps this is the real goal of the feds implementation of NCLB. It's possible that the architects of this inane policy really do know that it is a statistically impossible goal for 100% of a population to achieve proficient or advanced standing. They will therefore have concrete justification to discontinue federal Title I aid to public schools. THAT is something I can believe, as opposed to blanket ignorant statements such as "All teachers are lazy and uncommitted." and "All parents want the public school to raise their children for them." and "Schools brought this on themselves by graduating illiterate students." Based on a brief review of many posted statements, most of us have no moral high ground in the literacy department.

Did this article say anything about Albany?

ofinterest.....You are of course correct in your ASSumption. I have never been inside a Janesville school, but plan on doing so some day. LOLOLOLOL

curtaincall: At no point did I ever act offended of being a special education teacher. I was simply stating that not only special education classs have small numbers of students. And yes Terry is a great teacher. So is Tom Berg, If Albany had the same opportunities for students as Janesville I would still be there.

Albany,, love that school. To the dude who acted offended by the thought of being a special ed teacher, you should be so honored to have someone think that.

Speaking of good teachers, Albany has a great one in Terry Astin, if you taught there you must have met him. He has taught there for 30 some years. He is a teacher who made school fun, a teacher who made kids want to learn, a teacher who kids respected because he respected them.. Not to say there are/were never issues but he is the type of teacher I wish schools were filled with. But it is a different day since I went to school, but teachers like him do not come a dime a dozen and they most certainly are not all the same job performance wise. But he is awesome.

Please note I mentioned "few" schools have met AYP every year, not "no" schools if rlms's comment was referencing mine.

Not trying to be involved in a "blame game" here; but I see a lot of us discussing what teachers and parents will do and not a lot of discussion on what the student will do to help him or herself. (someone, jqpublic?, recently mentioned how we can not force students to learn the material) Often during conferences, both the parents and I have asked ourselves how much harder do we have to work and how much more do we have to care to make the student sit up and do something and care as much as we do. As a COMMUNITY, we must find ways to inspire our children to WANT to learn and VALUE their own education. While this isn't always the case, it happens more than I wish it would.

rlms: Enlighten me by my email then. I also have not disclosed everything I know. It sounds like you may be one of the psych councelors that shows up to IEP's but just a guess. If you are great because I've heard a lot of negatives things said about that field as well!

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you about who knows more. If you know as much as you lead on,(which anyone can do in ananonymous post)then why are generalizing so much and lumping all the crap teachers with the good? It is the system as a whole that is at fault not any individual teacher. The administration is also partly to blame. The pricipals for pushing education to meet the standards of a test is at fault. For every bad teacher you can come up with I can find 5 parents that don't deserve children! I can find even more kids that could give a crap less about school because they already know more than their adult peers anyway.

rlms: Do not underestimate the knowledge of anyone in this post!

My nephews go to Albany. My sister volunteers there. There are not classes that small at this time. That was 6 yrs ago it has changed a little. They still have no money.

rims: I am not a special ed. teacher! I taught in Albany 6 years ago. I had an engineering class of 6 students. My other classes ranged from 10 to 20. This is a big diffences in time that you can allocate to individual students. You are right not all teachers have classes this small. But it does happen!

The only classes that small is albany is special ed classes. That is not a regular classroom and you know it. The smallest class currently in Albany is/was 16.

But that is not the point that was trying to be made. The point is there are rich and poor every where . NOT just Janesville..

There are stable and unstable every where not just Janesville.

These are all well attempted excuses but they don't wash.

Evansville has never not passed as far as I am aware of , and we would know. Much like everyone knows now about the Janesville schools. So to say that no school has passed all the time is incorrect. There are quite a few schools that have passed every time.

ofinterest: The Albany School has a 500 students from K-12 grade. Janesille Schools have 300-500 per class at each school. I have taught in Albany and had a class of 6 students. I have taught in Janesville and have had classes of 30. You must compare apples to apples. NCLB is a good idea if it is done correctly. The system is completely flawed. Yes teachers must take responsibility for a portion of the situation. However it is the parents responsiblity to make sure students are succeeding in school. They must make sure their child is completing the work. Teachers are there to provide information, what students choose to do with that information is up to them. Students can not be forced to learn.

Many people have posted that various schools have met AYP - yes, this year...maybe not last year, maybe not next year. Some years some Janesville schools have, other years not. There are truly only a few schools that have met AYP set by the government every single year. I have attended conferences about "how these schools meet standards" and have yet to come away with anything that is different from what we do in my school. It doesn't mean I don't keep trying, but there isn't some magical mojo we can put to use in the classroom and PRESTO all students are motivated to do their best! Some of the students I have spent the most time with, cared the absolute most for, worked harder than other kids, STILL didn't achieve "proficient" - are they literate? Yes, but not proficient. Many are being kind and productive citizens in our community today. Did I fail them completely? I guess some of you would say I did. I know that all I can as a teacher is "try" and hope the student, family, and community will try to help the student as much as I do. And, back to the clarification of Katy's comment, by 2014 no school is allowed to have even ONE student have a bad day, "blow off" the test because schools suck anyways, or have test anxiety. I believe we will see precious, precious, precious few districts - especially of any size, meet this standard in 2014. Some years ago I worked in a much smaller school in a smaller community; I can't explain why but there simply was more emphasis put on doing well and trying hard at school. I never saw the mentality of "my kid is smart and we all know it so who cares how he/she does on some standardized test". If a student said, "this test is stupid" and I called home, the student came back with a new attitude, took the test, and tried hard. My experience here in Janesville, in Madison, and in Beloit, has not been the same. But before anyone has an uproar, that hasn't stopped me from really loving my job! There are many students who work their tails off (both high, regular, and low achieving ones); there are many parents who are very concerned, very helpful, and very involved. It is just a very, very different atomosphere from the smaller community I had been in. As a teacher, I can't tell you how much I would like 100% of all sophomores to be proficient and advanced. Then we wouldn't have to endure the spelling and grammar police on discussions like this! :)

reality is teachers not taking responsibility.
That is reality. You have no idea who I am or what I know about mental/behavioral issues.

With what I do it is a very big part of my world. I also know for a fact that teacher's are not trained to work with these kids and a lot of times make it worse. ( actually had a teacher threaten to strangle a kid) Which by the way puts this teacher in line for criminal charges. So do not speculate as to what I know or do not know. I have been quite discreet on here about what I know about what goes on in public schools, that by the time I get done you would be speechless.

NVgrf- I have found people that make comments like you did tend to know the least about the subject being talked about. They just want to make sure they get their two cents in right or wrong.

School aides are asset and do a lot of things teachers can't or WON'T do.

I have worked with many schools in the area working with Wis. Facets and I am always amazed how much time and effort these 'aides' give to these kids.

I sat in a classroom of one of the students I was helping through Wis.Facets, just to see what was going on. There had been so many things brought up at the meeting. The teacher and parents agreed that they were fine with me doing that.

I was impressed with how the aide for classroom worked with this boy. It made a big difference in what got done and how it was done.

Talk of money , and stable and unstable. Take a look at the Albany School District. One small school with not a lot of money but they made the grade.

The average income for that district is below the national guidelines.

So the family's of these students, don't all have a lot of money. But this school passed.

They have E.B.D. room that has quite a few students, but this school passed.

Just a example of what happens when people quit placing blame and put some of that energy towards working.

rlms: Sorry but the behavioral issues of 15 years ago are not the same as today. The students of 15 years ago are not the same as today. To think they shows ingnorance about todays youth. Even the worst kids in my high school class couldn't compare to what is happening in middle school now. This is the "don't care, do nothing" generation and they are much more difficult to teach. An aide is just that an aide, even they don't fully understand what is going on with everything. I doubt there is as much corruption in the schools as you make it sound. There are not that many bad teachers out there! You go ahead and keep living in your world where nothing has changed since you went to school. Not reality but it's your world do what you want.

proartist- the thing is not ALL schools are failing. That is what has not been answered. Why??

I mean come one in any district, you have poor vs well off familys, stable vs not stable, some time the well off family's have the naughtiest kids.

You see the same type of situations in all districts. Why are some failing. When others are not.

This blue ribbon award that Evansville got. This was ONE class. NOT the entire h.s. . Even though administration at first led people to believe it was. Great job done by this class , but it was not the entire high school that was awarded this.

If small little schools , with below average income average for the town can pass this test Janesville should be able to as well.

I mean that is what the teachers on here are trying to say. Poor students, less stable students are dragging everyone else down.

But other schools pass this test.

Quit making excuses.

Can't expect your students to take responsibility if you can't.

nothing wrong with being a aide. They do a lot of things teachers won't. They pick up the slack in a lot of places. It's funny when I went to school teacher's did it all. Now days, there is a aide for this, a aide for that. The classes are not any bigger, in fact tend to be smaller. Our class had 28 students and NO aide.

Same behavioral problems as today. NO aide.

The great thing about teacher aids is they see and hear things teacher's and administration hope they never repeat.

It sounds like a bunch of VAIN teachers on here who can't admit, time for improvement.

What it ALL comes down to: NCLB ITSELF IS A FAILURE! When academic LEARNING takes priority over blame; over parents vs. teachers and vice versa, over politics and social engineering (other examples of FAILED experiments such as DARE and abstinence "education"); over sportsmania; THEN the students, schools and parents will achieve their goals.

MOCO...Be careful, Curtain has all of the answers. She was an aide you know.

curtains: I am also a parent that has a child in the district so I am not only looking at this from 1 side. I know how tough it is to parent and I'm sure I've got a lot coming at me that I have not dealt with yet. I can't wait for all the drama there will be in the years to come. I do feel that if I show my children that I have an interest in them and discipline them when needed we won't have these issues. Only time will tell if this strategy will work. I wish you could have experienced being an aide with a teacher that truly cares because your outlook might be a bit different.

jqpublic: I agree. I think this was one of the reasons the NCLB Act was started. It was in large part to make sure the large inner-city children were getting the same education as the rest of the country.

curtaincall: I admitted that there are bad teachers; I had my fair share of them. I also hear about teachers who really don't care. Just as I may be defending what seems to be all of them, your argument makes it seem as if all of them are bad. I think we both agree on a few points though. Not all parenting is great and not all the teachers are great. There are flaws in the system, not necessarily with the teachers. I can't find it but I read an aritcle about a school out East that allowed the teachers to decide the curriculum and how it was to be taught. The children excelled at that school. Being told exactly how to do your job takes away from the creativity and fun in teaching.

I think that the schools need to do away with tenure. Time served is not enough of a reason to keep a job. those teachers who are unwilling to try new things and that have bad attitudes need to be fired, just as it would be in the private sector. The good teachers wouldn't have anything to worry about and would probably agree with me on this.

Sorry for getting defensive, but there are a lot of good things happening in schools as well. I just hate seeing a negative picture being painted about all of them.

Pat said "I curious as to what Katy means by 2014 all schools will be out of compliance . I don't the femaleagree. Many schools have had no problems being in compliance. Even Evansville who tests the kids with the IEPS."

What Katy means is that if you have 90 special education students (or any large population of students) in a school and only ONE does not meet the proficient or advanced status on the standardized test then the school will not be in compliance because 100% AP/P is expected by 2014. We all know some kids don't test well, some kids don't get fed well or have a rough night before a test, etc.

As for Evansville testing kids with IEPs....it is a rare exception to NOT test kids with IEPs. Everyone gets tested unless there are severe disabilities. The student who came to the USA a year ago and is beginning to speak the language well must take the test and comprehend. The student who can't sit still for 10 minutes, let along one hour and a half, still has to take the test. The student who saw dad slap mom across the face the night before and got no sleep because of the trauma has to take the test. The kid whose parents love him to death but don't work for different reasons and has no books or a computer for their child still has to take the test. Get the picture? Expecting 100% AP/P down the road is ludicrous on so many levels.

Has anyone studied the difference in socieoeconomic status at these schools versus schools that are making the grade in the community? Lets move the Parker Teachers to Craig. My guess is that is not the teachers at all, in fact it is the make up of the community and the value each family places on education.

MOC0428, Maybe your wife is one of the good ones. But you are not going to be able to make that point effectively by attacking the parents.

Years ago I babysat for a special ed teacher and she was one as well that went above and beyond what she needed to do.

Right down to getting up a half a hour early, because one student from a single parent home where mom left for work at 5am, never got to school on time.

She would pick her up. Even though it meant she got up earlier.

BUT not all are good. Some make excuses and point fingers.

Not all parents are bad and irresponsible as your post suggests.

IF there are issues with students either behavior or attendance the ADMINISTRATION needs to come out from behind there desk and deal with it as well. Let the teachers teach and the administration should be dealing with issues that effect learning. Attendance, behavior, hunger, issues in the home.

But the majority of kids do not have severe issues that I listed.

Many schools are passing this 'test' . The ones that are not need to figure out why not.

Kudo's to your wife. There should be more like her.

Curtaincall: I'll start by saying that she is a special education teacher who cares more about her students than most of the parents care about them! That is without question! I spend money on children I have never met so that they can get things they need and aren't getting at home! I understand the system better than you think. There are many teachers opposed to the way they are told to teach. Give some of the teaher the freedom to teach how they feel best in the system might work better. Nobody likes to be micro-managed but (some) administration who cares more about the politics of things rather than what is right! The sad fact is that the schools get funding based on these rediculous tests. We all know that money drives the world. If you are a principal and your graded in terms of grant money to your school, what do you do? The government is forcing the schools to teach to the test.

And the government is always correct! They know everything there is to know right??? Who started the NCLB Act? That's right G. Bush! He is by far the most intelligent President we have ever had right??? Give me a break about what are all knowing goverment says. You have politicians deciding what is right when they don't have a clue.

curtains: Answer this. How do you teach a child that does not want to learn and tells the teacher to F-Off all day long???? How do you teach a child that comes to school stoned? How do you teach a child that cares more about texting on the stupid cell phone than learning. You give a good answer to these questions and maybe then I'll listen because these things occur daily in the middle and high schools. The teachers seem to spend more time dealing with crap like this than being able to do their job. Maybe if PARENTS WOULD START PARENTING CORRECTLY the teachers could do their job better. It is not about blame or excuses, it is about reality!

These comments are all good. But you can't blame the parents for the schools passing kids that never should have been passed.

As far as someone leaving the school district due to a schools poor performance, thats the last thing these schools can have happening. The schools lose that money. They can not afford to lose any as it is.

I think parents just want to see the schools comply. Not a lot to ask.

There are so many schools that do comply, to say its the parents fault, or the student with disability's does not wash.

Whom ever posted that severely disabled kids do not take the test is correct.

It makes no sense. I work with Wis.Facets so I work with and see how many of the schools in the area work.

Some schools just put in more effort.
You put in the effort and it pays off.

The amount of kids who don't give a crap and don't have a IEP for each school are minimal. Most kids will start out strong on these tests, and yes some lose interest by the time they are done.

It is very time consuming.

I don't know if it should be changed at all. Look at the schools who pass the test.

Why should we change something for those few that can't.

I watched this last year one school who did not make the grade last year, but did this year. They made changes. They made the effort.

I have read Evansville mentioned on here several times.

It was just two? years ago that Evansville got the Blue Ribbon award for Excellence in Education.

Smaller school, less money than Janesville, yet they did it.

Its all in effort folks.

Parents and Teachers.

MOC0428- Parents need to parent??

Your wife needs to do her job. IT'S funny if your wife is a teacher, you don't seem to have a clue as to how the law works.

IT is the schools that failed. No one made them pass these kids. They are all grown ups that teach. NO one can make them do anything they don't want to.

In the end it is the schools that made this mess. The government even thinks so.

MOC0428,, My grammar?? How about your spelling..
Actually I am one of the parents who complained , questioned it, and complained some more. I am also the one who had to listen to the teachers complain. NOT all teachers are good, just because they have a degree. Just like not all doctors are good, lawyers, dentists, walmart cashier, . But you don't hear them complaining or blaming anyone else quite like teachers do.

Most people take responsibility for themselves.
As it has been said many times in these post, its because the schools were graduating students who can't read and write.

This is not just about kids with disability's and shame on those teacher's for trying to protray it as that's the problem.

I worked in the school district. I know for a fact that severely disabled do not take the test.

I also know that for the kids with IEPS, they are given as much time as they need, that is considered a accommodation. They get breaks as well. MOST of these kids can do just as well as main stream classroom students, they just need accommodation's , more time, maybe read to them, breaks.. What ever. It is not all about how smart some one is, its about how their learning is approached.

schools have gotten away without doing enough for years and now they are being called on the carpet.

One of the reasons I went and worked at the school was I wanted to see for myself if it was as some people had told me it was.

There is good and bad everywhere. There were issues with how some of these kids were treated.

I don't know about anywhere else, but in the Evansville school district staff is actually told they can't talk about things that happen at school.

I saw a student that I worked with repeatedly being mistreated by other staff, teachers. This kid could do nothing right. If you asked this teacher.

I called the parents. They got a IEP meeting immediately within days. After that things changed. I am not under contract and no one is going to tell me to keep my mouth shut when something is wrong.

What is wrong with me, what is wrong with you? Our taxes go to these schools and they can't pass the test.

No one made these schools pass these kids who can't read or write, and it is not about kids with IEPS.. ONLY kids with IEPS have the tests read to them.

There were graduating kids who had NO ieps. Just wanted them out of there.

When kids get to be high school age the parents have NO say in if there child is held back or not. High school does not run like grade schools where a parent can say NO you are not holding my child back. IF in high school they fail , history, they fail history.. NO credit. Take it again.

Quit graduating students who can not read and write and you would not have this mess.

curaincall: I think you are doing the students a favor by not going back! Thank you for quitting! I just can't get over how screwed up your perception is on this topic. The NCLB Act has flaws. PERIOD. If you asked a teacher what their feelings on it were, they would probably tell you that the idea behind it is great but in actuallity it doesn't work. This is not an excuse on their part, it just simply doesn't work as intended. Curtain call, "as a aide" I hope you did not help to teach grammar. Before this article had you ever mentioned to the district that you thought there was way too much testing? Did you ever voice concerns to teachers or administration about anything? I'm guessing not as it sounds like you would rather complain after the fact!
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ihavealife, hi again. i have to say that it is very hard to believe that a student's parents were never called. I would go out on a limb and say that is nearly impossible. My wife has to call parents all the time. Take a guess at the percentage that call back? Some of the parents she deals with never should have been allowed to have kids! Parents that actually fall asleep during an IEP. Parents coming to IEP's drunk, and the list could go on. Oh and by the way the parent that was sleeping was not employeed so it wasn't like she had been working hard or anything. All of these parents are really great role models for their children.

As far as conferences go.. When do all of you propose to fit them in? Most parents work right??? So the time frame is from 4-8 for conferences. How many students do most teachers have? There is not a lot of time so as a parent don't wait for conferences to talk to you childs teacher. Teachers will take the time to deal with things but most the time are not asked. PARENT YOUR CHILDREN!

rlms: What on earth is wrong with you? Sure there are some bad teachers just like there would be a bad salesperson, or bad assembler, or a bad doctor. The shool system does have it's flaws but the kids now are not like we used to be. I graduated in 92 and a lot has changed since then. Teachers are dealing with kids that don't give a crap and don't want to learn. This is in large part because they have parents that just keep giving them more and more. Who came up with the schools making excuses????? All of you who think the NCLB Act works as it is supposed to do not understand the education system.

DO NOT forget that the parents need to share equal responsibility when their child fails! The blame cannot and should not rest soley on the schools. The teachers are there to teach but if a student doesn't care to learn what should they do???? All of you people who bash the system never seem to give constructive feedback or idea's for how to make things better. All you do is complain! Grow the heck up and understand the situation before you spout off!

irishmafia78: You asked how a person could get out of school and not be able to read??? Well if said student doesn't care to learn how to read or simply can't learn how to read the teachers must read them the tests. If they can pass all of their tests and get help with homework that is how. There will always be some students that just don't have the ability but I would guess most of the time it is completely preventable with a little parent interaction at home. Too many parents treat the school system as a baby sitting service and that it is not. Discipline your children at home and they won't come to school unwilling to learn. Don't start griping about how we can't discipline our children because our parenting rights are gone because that is a load of crap.

employedbyme. No doubt way to much testing.

I don't think your daughter is a lone in the anxiety these tests bring. I also know for a fact that she is not the only one who does not put a 100% into these tests.

These kids are told from the beginning that these tests don't effect their grades so why should they go out 100%.

Having worked at the school I heard kids talking about during that week they tested.

It was a joke.

One kid did not even finish the test. Why should he?

Kids are being punished for what the schools are NOT doing.

Keep in mind that even with some of these kids blowing off this test, EVANSVILLE still made the grade.

So no teachers you don't get to blame your poor performance on the students. It does become a very stressful week for some.

The schools do way to much testing. NCLB, the regular standardized testing, normal classroom testing, M.A.P.S. testing. It is absolutely ridiculous. I do not feel sorry for these schools at all. They were NOT being run how they should have been so the government stepped in.

The government is babysitting are schools to make sure they do what they were suppose to do.

The days of graduating kids who can't read, write just to get them out of the school are over.

They should have to prove them selves in order to get any money.

I am self employed and boy oh boy if I don't deliver what I promise I am very quickly out of that client.

Why should they not be required to meet goals like the rest of us.

My daughter get so nervous over these tests, I finally just told her, write what ever you want. They don't count for squat. We know what kind of grades you get. As for those of you who say how could you tell your daughter to throw a test?

Why should she not? She gets all A's , always has. WHY should she have to take these tests, and stress about them when its the school that has FAILED and is now being babysat.

The other issue is my daughter was extremely sick this last fall, had her appendix out.
Missed a week and half of school and the NCLB testing. They actually pulled her from her regular classes to take this damn test.

NO priorities at ALL>>

When public schools start getting their act together the government will stop babysitting.

I was reading through the list of schools that did not make the grade. It seems like chartered schools , janesville included, had issues with test participation. Is that something that is going to change, why were these kids not taking the test. Monroe chartered had the same issue.
Are these schools more like a virtual school. Where kids log on when they log on? Plus I would imagine if they are not in a physical building you can't make them take the test.

I wonder how they plan on improving in this area.

I curious as to what Katy means by 2014 all schools will be out of compliance . I don't the femaleagree. Many schools have had no problems being in compliance. Even Evansville who tests the kids with the IEPS. So saying its the kids with the disability's bringing down our scores is NOT a fair statement. Many schools have kids with IEPS and behavioral issues yet they managed to 'pass' this thing. IF you listen the the teachers on here you would think the parents at these Janesville schools were to blame. Yet other schools are doing it. It must not be as much the parents as it is the schools.

This testing is NOT going to go away. As much as teachers and admin. would like it to. I think the reason they include the IEP kids is because those are the ones who given the choice, the school would like not to have concern them selves with if they could. Just simple stating " They have issues" Now the government wants the schools held accountable for these kids as well. AS they should. My friend whose family by the way lives in the Evansville School district, had to fight for every single service she has gotten for her kids.

The L.D. teacher at J.C. Mckenna is about as LAZY as they come. Not to mention a flake. She fought with her half the year over different issues, even ones the psych recommended.

Teachers complain about how much time it takes, well folks you are at school any way. You would be there regardless of what you were doing. Public schools are notorious for wasting alot of 'day' time. So why not this.

If you home school or virtual school you can accomplish twice what the public schools do.

Our neighbor has always home schooled and both her kids (twins) are juniors at U.W. Madison. So it goes to show it does NOT take a degree to teach and it gets done without as much whining and putting up with the political crap.

Public schools are making a bad name for them selves.

This article did a pretty poor job explaining AYP and what it means. Basically, if you have over 40 students in a school who fall into a given category (for instance; white, black, hispanic, students with disabilities, economically disadvantaged) then that is an area the state will take look at to see if you meet AYP. However, students who receive a "Basic" on their standardized test also positively impact AYP. Let's say Franklin Middle School has 57 white students who took the test. 50 get an advanced or proficient and earn "1" point toward AYP. 4 students score basic and receive "1/2" point toward AYP. The other three students score minimal and receive no points toward AYP. To get the overall score you would add 50 (50 AP or P) and 2 (4 B) to get 52 and divide that number by the total number of students given the test. Cross your fingers and hope! Also, to be considered for AYP a child must be in the same school for at least the entire previous academic year.

Honestly, to not reach AYP solely because special education students did not reach the threshhold is absolutely insane. They have been clinically labeled that for a reason! Then again, giving students a test a few days in October or November and then saying whether a school is successful based on that doesn't make much sense!

These comments are interesting to read. There seems to be some misunderstanding that the schools have a choice in whether or not to administer the WKCE exams to the special education students. If schools wish to retain federal funding for Title I, they must administer the tests to all subgroups. In the case of Evansville, for example, this amounts to hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue. I don't recall the exact amount, but I assure you it is no mere pittance.

There are many people who are ready to sling insults and blame everywhere in this story. This won't solve any problems nor will it change the fact that by 2014, 100% of all schools will be out of compliance with the NCLB, should it survive congress this fall in its current state. As previously stated on this forum, the law requires 100% of students to score proficient or advanced on standardized testing approved by the NCLB Act by 2014. Some idiot designed the progression of NCLB compliance because this is a statistical impossibility for even one school to achieve and will only happen if (as in the case of the entire state of Wisconsin) the standards for proficient and advanced scoring are reduced so low as to become meaningless. Schools will spend more time trying to finagle the data than they do teaching just to reach the holy grail of funding. Budgets are so tight right now that schools simply cannot blow off the federal funding opportunity provided with NCLB compliance.

As for NCLB, as previously stated, it's a good concept, but once politicians got involved it became idiotic. States aren't willing to relinquish local power over education and feds don't want it. Our country doesn't even have a standardized methodology for calculating graduation rates, for heaven's sake. How can they possibly have a federal standard for anything when a simple calculation is done 50 different ways (52 if you count DC and American Samoa). If NCLB were a measure of forward progress for each individual school with some final destination that is statistically rational, everyone would be a lot better off.

Well I don't know about the other school, but maby if Parker spent more time caring about the education of it's students, instead of making sure no one has a beverage in the halls, your not eating lunch in the parking lot, you walk all the way down to the attendance office if your 2 seconds late, your using a number 2 pencil or writing in black ink, your not txting during passing period, you don't have headphones on during study time, your not reading gazetteextra when there is nothing else to do, your not talking about the out of controll abspestos issues, you could get in the building from more than one door, not accepting homework from an unexused absence, stop marking you absent when your more than 5 minutes late, but still at class but your over you 80 hours, they might have better test scroes...just saying. Can't wait to hear what bubbles has to say!

I took the job as the aide to keep a eye on my kids, and to try to get a idea of what kind of school Evansville is. I had heard so many things I wanted to know for my self.

After a year in that school, its safe to say my kids will not be going back nor I. There are to many different better options than the things that go on in public schools.

I was a aide for the school district this last year. So I spent many hours. I do see the issues, but the teachers have no business blaming the parents. As a parent, the two parent teachers conf they had this year. I was rushed through, because some people don't know how to tell time. Parent and teacher alike. Poverty stricken?? REALLY??? Of the list of 157, how many can you honestly say are poverty stricken? That you know for a fact?? Evansville is not a RICH school district, they did it. As much as I hate giving them credit.
Juda did it, Monroe did it, schools in Wisconsin of all different sizes and wealth or poverty did it..

I find it very disturbing that a district Janesville's size can't 'do' it.

There are schools in much worse shape than Janesville who have 'done' it. It all sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

Where ever you go you are always going to have parents who put forth more effort than others.

You are always go to have some teachers who bend over back words to help kids, while some do as little as they have to.

You are always going to have the well off, and the not so well off. Its called adapting to your situation and learning how to make it work.

But when ever something goes wrong the school points its fingers at the parents? If the government really felt it laid with the parents as much as the school they would have made some sort of law to go side by side with the NCLB. But they did not.

It's not the parents who were graduating students that could not read, write or add.

It's the schools. NO one made them graduate these kids, they did it all on their own.

As for kids with NO breakfast?? Thats why the school serves breakfast BEFORE school its available to anyone and everyone.

One of the best things the public schools have done. They receive money for doing it as well.

I have always said kids with IEP's should not be taking the tests, it is not fair to the teachers or students and does not represent the entire story. It makes no sense as kids with IEPs are already not participating at the same level as their classmates, so why test them and compare them to their classmates. A waste of time.

But it was the school that got them selves in this mess. Like I said NO one made them graduate students who can't read.

I agree with what most people are saying, it is the responsibility of both parents and teachers to educate our youth. However, I think people need to know how these scores our determined. For example, if you have a student who scored "Basic" in reading is ELL, has a learning disability, and is considered low socioeconomically that Basic score counts against the school 3 times. Scoring and determining a "school in need" is not as simple as this student scored high and this student scored low. Not to mention that according the NCLB law ALL students must score proficient or advanced by a certain year. This is statistically impossible!

JUST KIDDING!!!!

...."graded wrong".....you go to Parker?

shutupandfish.... Parker= Sports.... Craig=academic... It has been that way for years.In the mid 90's both schools were given money to do what they wanted with.Craig used their money to add on to the school.... Parker used their money on the athletic fields,that they couldn't use because they were grated wrong.

I wish we could find a away to stop the divisivness between the "east side" and "west side". ACT scores between the two sides rarely differ by more than ONE point (22 vs 23) which is mostly statistically insignificant. Both schools still