i saw a manhole cover the other day it said "sewage" if I remember correctly. ANyway it was all spelled out as to which cover it was. now how do you have a problem identifying that???

maybe we should fix our roads, parks,unoccupied weed full commercial sites, pot hole at post office,THE FAIR,and the tallman house first!!!!Oh yeah I remember also that we CANNOT mow some of our parks because there ISNT enough money or plow the streets when it snows.I am sure there are some things I am missing.

I can see it now. honey should we move our business to Janesville or beloit. Oh I chose Janesville have you seen those manhole covers??? theyre so pretty people will travel here just to see them and then theyll stop by our place to shop on their way home.

How many covers are not labeled? Drive down the street itlegrycat and look at the existing covers for yourself. They are labeled with a W or a S, water or sewer

Anyone think that the manhole covers, water tower, pedestrian underpass, etc. could be ways the City is looking to improve it's image so it can recruit new business to the area? The tax dollars the City is spending may be being spent to make the City look more progressive and attractive to potential income. Just a thought. Well I guess its more fun to cry why me, bury your heads in the sand and hope pouting will keep GM in town.

The cover doesn't need to be replaced because it is worn out. The cover is being replaced because of an identification problem. Stamp the existing cover with a punch denoting it's use. Cost? Negligible! Problem solved cheaply. Duh!!!!!

Thank you for putting it into perspective Nero. Too often we see people pass myth as fact. Their judgement is often clouded by bias. Emotion rather than intellect dictate their response. They are unable to track simple concepts. And somehow they claim to be the final arbiter of commom sense. Evaluators are not leaders, they are followers - always have been, always will be.

Bravo Nero...great quote by the way. Stephen King says it best in this situation. What bothers me is that everyone is complaining, but how many of you take the time to attend a city council meeting? How many of you call to complain to the appropriate people? Although your voice is "seen" here, they don't actually hear it in the city offices. Get your butt off the computer chair and head downtown and voice your opinions and also bring a few good ideas of your own. If you can do all of this better, get on your soap box and get elected. Or at least drop your idea in the suggestion box for goodness sake.

Most everyone here is seemingly looking for a reason to complain. My suggestion, to those who feel this is waste of money, is to stop shouting from the sidelines and get in the game. If this pisses you off so much, get informed, get involved and really make a difference. Read up on the issues, attend city council meetings, contact our representatives politely and run for office. If you feel your budget hawk approach to civic government is lacking in the council as it sits today, go make a change. All the griping here is going to do very little to fix what you see as broken. We live in a democracy and a democracy is served best by an educated and involved citizen. To borrow a quote Stephen King:
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"We've switched from a culture that was interested in manufacturing, economics, politics — trying to play a serious part in the world — to a culture that's really entertainment-based. I mean, I know people who can tell you who won the last four seasons on American Idol and they don't know who their Representatives are."
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Really folks, it takes work but it is work worth doing.

Janesvillecomments, I agree. That is ugly.

I think it resembles a nuclear mushroom cloud more than anything. Perhaps it represents our county economy....KABOOOOM!

Thank you MooSoo you make economics so very easy to understand. Now what can you tell me about rocket science?

I'd be pro-new-manhole-covers if they put a picture of a pretty girl on it, but you'll never catch me drinking beer out of such an ugly-designed manhole cover.

THE NEW ONES COST THE SAME AS THE OLD ONES! If the City is following the same replacement stragegy as it was with the old manhole covers, new manhole cover has ZERO FISCAL IMPACT on the City's budget. From what I read in the story, that seems to be the case.
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For the fiscally impaired, let me explain it this way. You spend $10 a night at your favority watering hole on brand X beer. It costs $2 a bottle. You never drink more than 5 beers because that is all you can afford and you worry JPD will nail you for a DUI if you drink more than 5. You change to brand Y beer because it has a pretty girl on the label and it does not cost any more than brand X.
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If you can follow the analogy, THE NEW BEER COST THE SAME AS THE OLD BEER. Unless you decide to drink more, changing brands has ZERO FISCAL IMPACT on your out of pocket expense.

Take a metal stamp and mark each existing manhole cover for its use. Problem solved at little expense to the taxpayer. Oh, I forgot. They don't give a damn about the taxpayer.

Wow - this city sure knows how to focus on important issues. The town's flooding, GM's closing, the housing market is poop -- I know let's go buy some fancy manhole covers!!! Why not add a few other great expenses to the taxpayers - maybe some miniature fiberglass cars or cows! This city loves to melt the people's gold (taxes) to make golden calf projects doesn't it?

Okay, I think the idea is neat, but 2.6 Million to cover the sewage. And who may I ask is stealing the Manhole covers? It certainly is not me? I think if we are losing 2.6 mil in manhole covers in the city, we have some serious problems.... Did anyone check on Ebay?

I think that abstract tree logo is ugly. If only they'd asked, I could have loaned them my car's pine tree air freshener to trace. Then they'd have something recognizable on the manhole covers.

The manhole provides access to the underground pipe or watermain shut off. The manhole cover is a small cost compaired to the actual underground pipe installation/repair. The city doesn't always need to be replacing or repairing the mains to change these manhole covers out. It may just be repaving the street.

The new manhole covers cost the same as the old ones. The City is installing new ones when it repairs (I think "replaces" would have been a better choice of words) its utility system. My guess is the manhole cover is a fraction of the cost of installing new or replacement pipes. Its a non issue, so why all the griping and sniping?

Has anyone thought to look at the ones already in the steets? The manhole covers that have a "W" in the middle indicate water, the covers with "S" in the middle indicate sewer. Storm sewer manholes usually have the "S" or sometimes nothing in the middle of them. Most if not all city utility workers know what these letters stand for. These covers don't wear out that fast and are most likely being replaced on streets that are under construction.

I'm just shocked. I can't believe that Steve Sheiffer didn't have his face embossed on the new covers instead! Miracles never cease. LOL
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Who's bright idea was this? Scrap 'em.

What a waste of money!! It still adds up to 2. 5 million in the end. Sounds like something Edgerton would do!

Get off your soap box people... The cost is the same as the old ones, the design is for identification, and they're only replacing them as needed.

They'd be buying them anyway, why not have one that saves time (and money)?

You have got to be kidding me!!!! The only time you will see one is when you walk over it. Who was the town clown that o.k"d this idea. And at a great cost to the tax payers. Our covers we have now aren't good enough for our streets. Let's see the food pantry could have used some of that money.

Lets get the flood waters down and see how many we really need. Yes they do wear out and it would look like we need a few but as mentioned before right now with the cities situation we have to deal with the needs and not the wants. A lot of money is going to be needed for the major clean up and the city workers will not be worrying about peoplehole covers for awhile as they will have post-flood issues to battle for a long time so lets not get all excited over the sewer face lift for the time being.

Ok, I really need one of those for my backyard. They are very cool! Will the city be putting one on my street soon? Maybe a concrete, or resin replica could make some money for the city. I'd buy a concrete one for $50 if it's finished nice. I could make them if I had one to copy. I promise to return it before dawn...

Nero is correct - they do wear out. They also replace older castings with newer "watertight" ones in order to reduce the amount of "clean" rainwater and groundwater getting to the wastewater treatment plant via inflow and infiltration. Some older castings have holes in the lids to allow for picks to open them. a few holes in a lid in low areas can allow a lot of water in. Castings and manholes are also now constructed with an external seal to prevent water inflow. Sometimes you will see manhole lids getting "blown off" of manholes by water pressure from inside - usually under flooding conditions. Castings with bolt down lids can be purchased to prevent/minimize this in low areas floodplains, etc. It was unique in Cedar Rapids Iowa they had water levels 12 to 13 feet above the highest ever recorded - in Janesville the Rock River got got only about 5" higher than the previous record elevation.

It looks like the city throws manhole covers around like they are nickels. Now if only they would throw nickels around like they are manhole covers....

Just one thought, rust. Iron + road salt + sand + oxygen = iron oxide. That, and cast iron is actually pretty brittle. A couple good whacks with a sledge will turn most low carbon cast iron goods into chunks in a hurry. I'd imagine a snow plow blade at 15 mph would do the same.

Why would a manhole cover need to be replaced? How does a piece of steel that heavy & size wear out?
I did hear in some flood area's in Iowa the manhole covers were coming off. Did they incorporate something in the new manhole covers so that would not happen?

Thanks Ryan.

spikesmom- it is getting old too when the city keeps talking about spending for this that and everything else. They need to spend on things we need and not what they WANT.

I apologize for the confusion.

Nero had it correct. The covers are not all being replaced at once. They are only getting replaced on an as needed basis. When the engineering department makes repairs to covers or castings, they'll put in a re-designed cover and casting.

As for the cost. The new covers cost exactly the same as the old, non-designed ones, which would be replaced anyway.

The new covers will not cost the city any more money than they already would pay for replacing manhole covers.

Sorry again for the confusion.

-- Ryan Dostalek
Gazette Reporter

Shouldn’t we be politically correct and call them people hole covers?

The city does have a GIS (Geographic Information System) - I am sure they have at least begun to map the utilities in it. To locate the manholes in the field they need a GPS (Global Positioning System) - these are cheap if you only need to get relatively close (within a couple feet - like a manhole or a fishing spot) and more expensive for extreme accuracy (to a fraction of an inch like surveying accuracy). Each manhole would have coordinates for locating it. I would expect a city the size of Janesville to probably have and use both. I do hope they bought the castings from Neenah Foundry - it would be a shame to go out of state to purchase them. I hope i did not sound too bitter - i do think the custom castings are a good idea. I am just hoping Janesville does not have an identity crisis over losing GM - it is a great place to live that is why I CHOOSE to live here and I think Steve Scheiffer has been a great City Manager - those will be hard shoes to fill.

this is bs! Millions of dollars for new manhole covers! I mean come on! These things don't wear out! Heck if the city did not do this it would more than cover all the lost gm property taxes for years! This is just the most idiotic thing I have heard in years- can't they put this on hold since the since the city is about to go through an economic disastor? Or are they trying to do this stuff because they know it won't happen in the future......

I agree -- it's really depressing to see people complaining about something like this. "As repairs are made" means "as they needed replacing anyway". It's not clear how much more these cost than the standard mold they used before, but it can't be all that much -- the big expense is making it in the first place. 25 to 30 "in the first year" means the city is spending a MAXIMUM of maybe 60 to 100 x $250, for an astronomical total of ... $25,000.
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This "$2.5 million" is considering the cost of replacing ALL of them at once, which is not happening and would take a century at the current rate. I dare say we can afford $2.5 million over the course of a century to have our manhole covers replaced as needed.
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Or is "Janesville" just another word for "cheapskate", nowadays? Do citizens want the power to visit city hall and make sure that individual employees aren't using too many staples?

I'm surprised the PW department doesn't use a GIS to determine the purpose of the manhole covers. I no longer live in Janes. but know the PW employees of my town use a GIS - some of their vehicles also have the system installed, serving as a quick reference. I can't say I've ever focused on a manhole cover but forsurely I'm checking out the ones in my town later today! I doubt they include our town logo. Maybe my town opted for the GIS in PW vehicles instead of personalized manhole covers!

It really is getting old hearing all the complaints EVERY TIME the city wants to spend money. Any time something can be improved, it should be seen as a good thing. Do we really need shiny new manhole covers with our logo on them? Probably not, but if they need to be replaced anyway, who cares what's on them? Janesville is a city that keeps growing. We need to spend money to keep up with it. Sure, there are a lot of areas in Janesville that need help but we have to start somewhere. I'd rather see small steps than none at all.

Wow, some of you folks are really bitter.

Nero.. you are right on the money with how these are made.

If only some of this bitterness could be harnessed to a productive means.

<sigh>

I think they look nice.

Chances are there was a one time set up charge for the custom look. Most likely these are comming from Neana WI where most manhole covers are made so getting them as needed is not a big deal.

It will be even funnier when we hire a new city manager who will hire a million dollar consultant to tell the city they need a new image and a new logo and we will then have to buy not only new letterhead but new manhole covers too. Honestly, i think it is a very good idea and i am thankful we have public works employees who can read what is cast in to these lids. But i do think each lid should also have the "label" cast in Spanish and Braille and we should light every manhole and construct ADA accessible sidewalk to every manhole so City employees and Contractors with physical or mental or lingual challenges don't get confused or cross connect the systems - i'd hate for sanitary sewerage to ever get in to the delicate Rock River ecosystem - oops too late - I hope we don't have to pay fines for discharging sewerage during the flood.

I can't think of a better way to spend tax money than a decorative manhole cover... I wonder how much the plain ones were?

Like Zoom said, I'm pretty sure there would be a 1 time setup fee associated with creating the custom pattern for each of the three basic designs. The design is likely laid out using CAD-CAM to design and cut the pattern into the substrate. I doubt they'd charge per letter, but anything is possible.
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Once the pattern is complete, it can be used to create a sand mold every time the city orders one. Those molds then have molten iron poured into them. Once the iron cools, the sand mold is broken off the manhole cover.

RE: the cost. These are castings. The cost of the design would be one time. I doubt the design costs much more per cover.

The article is vague about when the covers get replaced. It says they get replaced "as they make repairs". Repairs to the sewer system? Are these being replaced automatically, or only if the existing cover is damaged?

jck- they did also mention if they get lost they can identify them. how theyld get LOST I dont know. Flood waters carry them away to another city??

I do agree a 1,2,3 or a,b,c JVL,WI would be less money. I know if you get something engraved it is PER letter.

How about just engraving a number 1 , 2, 3 on the current covers - cost about 10 minutes of someone's time (city employee: 10 minutes = $10 (includes salary & benefits) x 10,560 = $105,600. Oh, I forgot we are already paying them so the cost would be just some engraving tools.

The article says the city is replacing them as needed, not all at once. If a cover is damaged or scheduled for replacement, the new one will have the logo. Nothing to get too worked up over it so long as the cost for the new specific cover isn't more than it's non-specific alternative. The article doesn't mention the cost of a cover sans logo. I'm curios what the difference is.

10,560 covers in the City of Janesville. $250 a pop. 10,560 x $250 = $2,640,000. Does the city really need to spend over $2.5 million dollars "just to be able to tell one system from another?" There isn't a cheaper way, like a map for instance, to do that?