unidentified: you are wrong. Lear workers, who will be displaced by the first round of cuts (in 2 weeks), will be eligible for TRA.

Don't forget about the families leaving the area. If their homes don't sell, we'll see our taxes go up even more!

Please don't forget that before all of the news on plant closing they were given the go ahead to raise taxes 3.8 percent !!! So that $30.00 tax raise means NOTHING !!!!

Oh, and one more thing, you don't think that the taxes will go up that much. Well, when there will be alot of people unemployed and can't pay their bills, and file for bankruptcy to keep a roof over their heads, wait and see how much will be deducted to cover all the unemployment that is going around, not only here in Janesville, but in other states, too. Gas prices keep rising, food, utilities, etc. But you don't see your paychecks go up to keep up with the rise in inflation.

I don't believe that giving big corporations big tax breaks makes much of a difference. The big corp. see the dollars add up and they look at the dollar signs of how much more of a profit they can make. Then they let a small amount trickle down to the employees and keep the rest for themselves. Big corporations want "slaves" working for them. If they can get by without having to pay you what you're worth, they will do it and find every excuse in the book to do it. Why do you think that they want to outsource the work. CHEAP, CHEAP labor means more $$$$ for them. And don't kid yourself, the savings we see with cheap labor is not that big of a deal.

The tax implications don't sound as severe as I would have guessed. Granted, any increase in taxes at this point is not good, but it isn't as bad now as it would have been years ago.

RN4Life: I want to mention for the record that Lear and LSI workers will get only unemployment, which after taxes is roughly 235 per week. I'll also mention that after a recent meeting with displaced worker reps they mentioned that they will not approve RN training. There are several reasons, most of which have been mentioned. Whatever training you attend, it MUST be completed in two years and RN and clinical combined last longer. I suppose there are exceptions, but it didn't sound like an option for most people. I agree with those who mentioned that nursing is something you should love to do. After losing much of her family to cancer, my wife decided to become a nurse, but to settled with CMA while waiting for clinicals (its been 3 years waiting for clinicals at Blackhawk I might add). She works as a CMA and truly loves helping people when they aren't feeling well or need help. Granted, the money is good for RN's, but it takes someone with compassion to be an RN or a CMA for that matter.

Stinky_Socks:
Raise taxes on the people that provide jobs and who pays for it in the end? The guy at the bottom, the worker. They are the ones that get laid off, and the consumer pays because the corporations pass the added taxes along in higher costs. As for the rich, they already pay over half of the taxes paid in this country, check that out.

Forgot one saying 73% want higher corporate taxes http://www.gallup.com/video/106441/Ameri...

Well Obama must be listening to his comrades, a majority of whom think we should raise taxes on the rich and corporations. Those would be the American people.
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/05/22/m...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27208/America...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/106813/Many-A...
Also you wanna know who was more socialist than Obama? Try Eisenhower, 92% top marginal tax rate 50% corporate tax rate under his administration.

Stinky_Socks:
If you look closely at all the programs and proposals that obamahaha is going to try to impose, the cost will be in the trillions. Our taxes will have to increase to even try to pay for his socialist ideas. He can't possibly lower anyones taxes. Then again, he may change his mind, it depends on what day it is, and who he is speaking to at the time.

Whatdidyousay:
Had you looked at Quintin66's link you wouldda seen a link to this http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/eco...
and seen that McSame will cut your taxes LESS than Obama if you make less than 100K (which is almost 90% of the population). Although if you elect McSame you'll get more back in taxes.....if your already ultra wealthy. Looks like a good deal to me.

RN4Life: I echo the sentiments that I hope I never have you for a nurse. Secondly, it is amazing how someone trained in your field can be so ignorant to the FACTS about nursing schools. First of all, it is a STATE MANDATE that nursing schools can only admit 48 students PER YEAR. ALL of Rock County has only 1 school with a nursing program, ALL of Dane County has only 4 nursing schools. Walworth, to my knowledge, has none. Green County has one. So....you see...there is a population of nearly 1 MILLION people with less than 300 spots available.
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If you want to talk about the state mandating something, how about they mandate all RN's with a BSN or MS to become preceptors so the State licensing and regulation boards are able to up the 48 max admission.
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And, RN4Life, nursing is NOT the only profession that is facing a nation wide shortage. "Making" people choose a profession based on need or pay will only flood the applicant pool with more bad attitude nurses. The last thing the medical community needs is MORE "Nurse Ratchett's". Nursing may be a way to pay the bills to you, but to many it is a calling that they are proud of and fight to uphold the honor bestowed on them being called a registered nurse.
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I don't care how many letters one can sign behind or infront of their name, or how many degrees one holds, it doesn't make them immune to ignorance to idiosyncrasies.
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To displacedworker...Re TAA benefits - I had a few credits under my belt at BTC (some from ten years prior) and was able to show them on paper that I could transfer credits and complete the program in two years...that's why it was approved and they paid for two of my three years. I paid for one of the three years on my own (actually...my new employer reimbursed me for the cost of tuition that last year when TAA was exhausted). After one year in the actual program was done, I sat for the LPN boards and used that license to gain employement & experience. It was my "insurance plan"..in case I wasn't able to finish the program or got booted (unfortunately, BTC has a high kick out, wash out, boot out rate in their nursing program).

Oldtimer:

Please provide a link or proof source to the quote you are atributing to the city manager.

When and where did he say this?

No way are we going to make up for loss taxes, who does the city think they are. cut expenses, but like our City Manager said "if the people of janesville dont like higher taxes let them move"

as someone going through TAA benifits they wont approve nursing program beca
yea there is a demand for it but unless you can get school done and over with within 2 years it wont get approved..

RN4Life - I lost my well paying job at Gilman and job service/TAA helped put me through nursing school by paying for my tuition & giving me extended UC benefits...BUT it was my husbands job at GM that kept our house going those three years that I was in nursing school! Most people were unable to keep their household going on UC benefits long enough to get a decent re-training! The same week that I got my RN license, my husband found out that he was losing his job at GM. Although my nursing wage & benefits will do well to help replace what we're losing from GM, I am a nurse because I care about PEOPLE! Sure, lots of aspects of the job can be trying..but knowing that I helped others and made a difference (no matter how small) makes all the undesireable work bearable (i.e. charting and working with crabby old nurses who have long forgot what compassion is all about).

RN4Life... you must work for mhcs.

RN4Life - If everyone became nurses then you may get fired for having a bad attitude which would be forced upon patients, and replaced by someone who likes the job. So, to save you from the unemployment line I will not consider the forced education. Besides I'm not communist.

and RN4Life - I don't know what country YOU live in, but in the US of A the government can't FORCE it's residence to become something they don't want to be. I'm very sorry you felt you had no choices in a career. I'm a trained surgical assistant and when I worked in that field I hated nurses with your attitude, so much that I changed careers, that's right, you CAN do something different. And I don't understand why you yourself are not on unemployment. Please tell us where and who you work for so we can make your life happier and go else where so you won't have to do a job you hate so much, then lets see if it still pays your bills?

Lets all have a laugh at this point and imagine GM turning the empty building into an auto museum and amusement park LOL LOL LOL

RN4life... I hope I never have you as a nurse. !! If you don't like your job FIND A NEW ONE !!! Oh wait it pays your bills...Just like GM pays mine !!!

Since there is a nursing shortage.....unemployment office should require the unemployed workers to go to nursing school while getting 90% of their pay with health insurance. By the time their benefits run out, they will be close or will have graduated and able to make a comparable wage while filling a huge void. Don’t want to be a nurse? Tough, neither did I, but it was the only training I could afford 25 years ago. I still don't like being a nurse, but it does pay the bills. Life is not fair.

momof5:

You grossly mischaracterized the economic impact. I think everyone will agree that the loss of GM or Lear will impact Janesville and surrounding counties-to what extent is not known-and quite frankly I reject your doom and gloom prediction out of hand-there is no evidence to support your prediction. But, Americans are tough resilient people. People will find a way through it. I remember when Parker Pen actually manufactured pens in Janesville-guess what-they left a long time ago and the city grew in population.

This is a tough labor market for unskilled labor. No doubt. However, GM or Lear or any other manufacturing firm cannot promise anyone lifetime employment. Those days are gone. As I have mentioned before, GM has consistently lost market share since the 1970s- the closure of the plant should not surprise anyone.

As for picking up the slack, you can choose to live where ever you please. Wisconsin is known for its confiscatory tax rates-so if your property taxes increase I would not be surprised. Incremental increases in base salaries for city employees are meaningless, as well.

Recognize that for investors like myself, there is opportunity in a down market. If property values drop this creates a market buying opportunity. Fuel costs and the valuation of the dollar only makes investing in the united states more attractive to foreigners.

You can exaggerate the economic impact and complain about "what should have happened" or you can focus on tomorrow and make it happen. Criticism is easy, really easy. Providing realistic solutions to problems is very difficult.

This just in......
Gm will be shutting down the plant and converting the lines to the future production of kayaks, hovercrafts and canoes. Due to the enormous growth of these water driven vehicles GM feels they can fit the high demand. They will also be adding an additional line to produce fuel efficient boats that will run on eggplant and salmonella laced tomatoes. And the rumors continue!

TCB:
No, I didn't assume that. However, I doubt there are upwards of 4,000 jobs available right now or in the near future that will pay those sorts of wages in Rock County or the vicinity for that matter. Granted, there will be educational assistance. However, the earliest those "new grads" will be in the workforce is a year. And, yes, they will also be drawing unemployment (and sup pay if they work at GM) but those wages will not have income tax taken out (that will most likely result in a "pay in" come April 15, 2009).
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My point was that the State and local economies and budgets WILL take a large hit. And, of course the "State" isn't going out of business but who do you think will be picking up the slack for the lost tax and income revenues? EVERYONE.
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This reminds me of the movie where the "President" knows the end of the U.S. is coming but doesn't alert the populus in order to eliminate the risk of mass hysteria and panic. Does anyone REALLY expect government officials and city planners to release a press release to the effect of: "Property tax in Janesville will increase nearly $100 for each $100,000 of an assessed value, school budgets will need to face another painful round of budge cuts to the tune of $300,000, and yes, your property's fair market VALUE will witness a significant drop between 8 and 20%. All of this will be amidst record breaking gas prices at the pumps, food inflation of nearly 8% and a rock bottom valuation of the U.S. dollar abroad. But, we, the City Council of Janesville, just approved 5 new parks, a raise for our new city manager and catered in a chicken dinner with no bones for an economic summitt here in Janesville, so don't panic and spend, spend, spend. And vote for us to continue being able to spend, spend, spend." Puh-lease.

Actually Dylyn, there will be much to be done about it. We, as the taxpaying citizens of Janesville, must demand that our elected officials cut expenditures accordingly. People have long been complaining that they are "being taxed out of their homes." The time for us to unite as a community and refuse to be taxed out of our homes is coming. We need to take back our community one way or another, not be chased out of town.

I think the taxes are going to suck either way. Mine go up every year and yet the neighborhood sure isn't improving. If I sit here and worry about every little detail of GM's closing I'll go crazy. Unless we are prepared to sell and move there isn't much to be done about any of it. Lets just hope some other million dollar company wants to come to Janesville.

I know a dealer that just sold 3 Tahoe's and 1 Suburban this week. That's all GM needs to do is put rebates on it or good leases.

quintin66:
The daily kos is a leftwing nut site, I don't pay attention to anything posted there.

Momof5

"I figured that between Lear and GM ONLY, the State of Wisconsin will lose $172,536,000 in wages."

I guess you also figured those people will never ever ever work again. The state of wisconsin, ie tax payers are not paying the wages of those who work for GM or Lear. Dont worry, the state will not go out of business, they can raise taxed to supplant any loss of revenue dur any incremental loss of gm/lear wages.

Zoom..... In all total 4000 people are losing jobs. This is bigger than GM and suppliers. People that work on the rail road also losing jobs.So DON'T think for one minute we will only see a $30.00 increase on our tax bills.The story in todays paper is just the tip of the iceberg.

Whatdidyousay- read this and follow the links

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6...

zoom--yes they are. they supply seats on a just in time basis to GM.

All the more reason Rock County Board, and all cities needs to take a serious look at cutting high salary positions and absolutely no raises!! The upper management is way to top heavy in ALL government agencies to begin with and salaries need to be based on ability to pay with lowering or not raiseing taxes.

Is Lear closing?

I figured that between Lear and GM ONLY, the State of Wisconsin will lose $172,536,000 in wages. Of course everyone's tax bracket is different, but let's for sake of argument, say it is 10%....from one company closing shop and trickling down to only one other (when we all know there are numerous suppliers to GM), that is a loss of $17.25 million dollars in tax revenue. Now, also think that there are nearly 175 MILLION dollars less in the economy from GM and Lear no longer employing workers. Couple that with everyone needing to eat a bigger piece of the tax levy pie, and the outlook is bleak for those of us on a fiscal diet. There's A LOT of pie to go around and not too many who want to take on anymore!!!
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Truth is no one can really estimate the aftermath all of this is going to cause. But, one thing is certain, it won't be pleasant. It won't be as bad as some proclaim and it most definitely won't be as easy and short lived as others claim.

acejd93,
Yes, GM will still have to pay taxes, but not as much as they are paying now. Property taxes are based on the assessed value of the land and improvements (buildings), and once GM guts the place, the assessment will go down. Since the tax levy is a fixed amount each year, basically GM's piece of the tax levy pie will be less, and everyone else's will be more, to make up the difference.

ihavealife,
I should have wrote $32M. GM doesn't pay $32M in property taxes. They paid $852K in 2007, which is the most janesville homeowners would have to make up. It will actually be less than that, since the property will still have some value after it closes. As the article states, worse case is $30 PER YEAR for $112,000 of assessed home value.

Although I don't live in Janesville, I have to ask- Even when GM closes, they still own the building and land, Aren't they still obligated to pay taxes whether they are still producing vehicles or not?? It'd be like me moving and still owning my home here, I still have to pay taxes on it if I live there or somewhere else! I can see if it was tore down, but they'd still have to pay for the land it sat on.

Zoom...I didn't say GM paid $32.00 in taxes. Let me SIMPLIFY this for YOU.$32 million dollars lost IF GM TEARS DOWN the buildings,fences etc. Then GM will only paid taxes on the LAND. As I said $1 million dollars for the land is a HIGH GUESS .Our taxes WILL go UP& UP before this is over .

If you think taxes are going to become a problem when GM leaves, just watch what a problem all our taxes will become if obama gets elected.

ihavealife,
I've never said anything disparaging about GM workers, only about GM as a company. I've never laid blame for the closing on GM workers (though the UAW has a hand in it). I can't help it if some GM workers (or their wives, apparently) can't seperate themselves from the company they work for.

Cracker - yes the city does need a plan, but in plain speak, their hands are tied. Little they can do re: the plant if GM simply decides to mothball it to avoid EPA scrutiny.
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The real players in this drama, is Rep. Mike Sheridan and Rep. Paul Ryan.

Zoom - I am not aware of any automaker that has closed a plant, whether assembly or parts, and then gifted the site to the community. I could be corrected, but Chrysler hung on a long time here, because these automakers know, as well as the workforce, just how contaminated these sites are.

What if hundreds of displaced workers move and those buildings sit vacant? How much of the burden will be shifted to those of us still here? Does the city have a plan; have they identified cuts that can be made?

Long_Time_Gone,
Good points about gifting. Has GM ever just given away their closed factories?

I'm guessing GM won't tear any buildings down while they own it, because that would cost more than just paying the (reduced) property taxes. They will still save money in the long run by closing the plant, unfortunately.

And I add - 2 excellent examples of this scenario is in Beloit - the Fairbanks Morse (now ABC) and Beloit Corp (also ABC subsidiaries) factories.
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They both sat vacate, becuase of contamination. Selling them off would have invited a host of EPA scrutiny that owners would not accept. So, it was cheaper to keep the buildings on their books.
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After all, the buildings were paid for and fully depreciated. It was the land that was contaminated.
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And I beleive, ABC might still have giant pumps on site remediating the contamination that the state essentially pays for.

OK, having some experience in industrial buildings, the buildings are worthless, they depreciate...over I think a 27 1/2 year lifespan, so tear them down. Land, nearly always, appreciates.
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However, as long as GM holds title, the EPA will not nose around the site, unless groundwater is contaminated and the news splashes across the front page of the Milw Journal Sentinel.
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But, if GM sold or gifted the property, it would surely be a Superfund site, at which point, ZERO taxes would be collected, from anyone. Not to mention no entity in their right mind would accept the GM site as a gift without a guarantee from either the state or the feds, that liability stays with GM, or, the state would agree to asssume liability and remediation.
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Either way, without Janesville and the County cutting spending, GM's tax contribution is going way way down, and residential taxes will fill the void.

Zoom It's my opinion that you really think you know what you are talking about !! Just to be fair NO Janesville WILL NOT have to make up $850,000. It's more like $500,000. you see Gm paids $350,000.IN STATE TAXES..... DO YOU UNDERSTAND !!!! By the way that will be shared by how many homeowers ?? But I may not know what I'm taking about because I'm just a factory workers wife ... LMAO at U !!!

Who pays the Property Taxes if GM gives the property to the City of Janesville?

oops...the most Janesville would have to make up is $852K.

Let me simplify this for some of you. GM paid $852K in 2007 property taxes. If the land and property were valued at 0 (worse case), Janesville residents (in the Janesville school district) would have pay about $30 per $112,300 assessed value to make up the difference.

ihavealife,
GM doesn't pay $32 in taxes. Taxes are a PERCENTAGE of assessed value. Again, the most Janesville would have to make up is $852.

Zoom---- THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX !!!!

janesvillean I was told 300 people can take a transfer,so that would mean LESS students in our schools .300 people moving out of the area in this housing market is not a good thing !!!

what?

I don't get it? Where does the "0" value come from? Whether production is ongoing or the building is empty GM still owns it and has to pay property tax on the assessed value of the property, including improvements until such time as it is sold to someone else. Assuming a "0" value is a ridicules scare tactic.

If GM tares down the buildings(like someone yesterday can't wait to watch SAD)then they will pay taxes on the land ONLY !! If or when that happens hold on to your shorts on the high end (my guess)they will pay taxes on $1 mill....That will be a lost of $32 mill from our taxes.... So who do you think is going to make that up !!!!! Do all you haters maybe you'll step up ?? After all GM workers DESERVE this right !!!This is just the start of what is to come !!!

The new owner will pay taxes, but the property will not be valued as highly when all the GM equipment and operating systems are removed. It will just be another vacant building with a big parking lot.
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As for government size "going down", Janesville's growth may be slowed, but we are unlikely to lose significant population -- especially in the schools, where the majority of those taxes go.

So GM isn't going to own that property anymore?
Shouldn't the new owner pay the taxes?

At least the impact on property taxes won't be the disaster many were predicting. It seems like many GM wokers that post seem to overestimate the economic impact the closing will have.

When all said and done ... I was told my taxes will go up in the area of $86.00 a year .When we bought the house in 1986 taxes were $900.00 ,my tax bill in 2007 was $2337.00 ..Now I understand when people say we are being taxed out of our homes !!!!

newsread and momo have it right on -
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I love the comment that the Janesville Mall closely trails GM as Janesville's largest assessed properties - proving how diversifed the local economy is vis-a-vis taxes.
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I guess it does not matter to city officials what jobs and wages are contained WITHIN those properties.
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Working at GM for $30+ hour one day, laid-off and selling ties at JC Penney the next, but hey, the city can keep spending becuase of commercial real estate values.

Property taxes shouldn't go up, government size should go down.

What about LSI's property, Lear's property, Gilman's property, and all of the other properties that will be vacant in the coming months and years due to GM's closing??
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I would suspect property owners can expect more than a $30 increase on a $112,000 home!

Oh you can be sure our taxes will go higher with the elimination of companies. The city will never slash spending to the level it should be. They just use comparisons to "other" cities our size as an excuse. Do you let your children do something wrong because "everbody else" is doing it?