gmaof3
All the top world economists have said that! What's your point? Gary Hamel for example!

kleeg - June 2nd, 10:09 am
"This is a quote from Paul Zane Pilser regarding the information age. There are those who will ignore the new rules.........."

Oh yes you did!

ajh, you saw that too....

I wouldn't care if I lost in stock if that meant our economy would be better and we could live more affordably. Maybe it's time to turn back the clock to when things were much easier. Too many greedy people out there that think for themselves only and screw everyone else.

Jun 2, 2008 at 10:09 a.m.

gmaof3
I've never mentioned anything about a "Paul Zane Pilser"..... However, I'm a huge reader of his work. He's dead on about the future of this country's economy. Which makes me happy I decided to learn the correct info. instead of listening to all the professional "neighsayers" out there like my relatives and former co-workers who had no results to back up their mouths. I once heard this and it's so true: "A person of opinion will ALWAYS be at the mercy of person with the facts".

"Paul Zane Pilzer, a 53-year-old economist, occasional rabbi and author of books like "God Wants You to Be Rich," isn't just concocting theories. His sales method has drawn interest..."

Peddling HSA/HRA medical plans... Hmmmmm.... My company just offered this to our employees the beginning of the year.

kleej, was that you in our conference room promoting the plan? Just curious....

Darius: No, food stamps are not a 'welfare' program. Again, the 'welfare' program ended during the Thompson adminstration. The food stamp program is for low income families, many of whom have hit rock bottom for a temporary time such as the loss of a job, or in the case of many, when a parent refuses to pay child support (usually the absent fathers in custody matters). This happens more frequently than apparently you know. Check your facts.

'"Stay at home" moms sprinting to their mailboxes'?? Wow. What kind of neighborhood are you living in?

Court Jester is right. His statements more than mirror, they are exact. He's just getting free advertising right under the Gazette's nose. They do face to face interviews becuase they are looking for pretty and fit people. They hock "wellness" stuff.

Food stamps aren't welfare? What's the check coming in the mail the first of the month that so many so called "stay at home" mom's are sprinting to their mailboxes for?

Darius - great points. one problem: there is no welfare program in the state of Wi. There hasn't been for appx. a decade.

Technoguy~
WELCOME TO AMERICA! First off, you're correct about the leadership thing. It's not just killing Gilman, it's killing this country. If you actually read some of these posts regarding home based businesses, you'd see why that topic is so prevelant. I suggest you read what "Kleej" wrote on June 2, 2:35 p.m. before you condemn people. I agree wholeheartedly about the U.S. jobs subject. We are in a global economy now and there's no stopping that. Why would a company spend $20/hr. for someone when they can spend .20cents/hr. in India? It makes sense for them to outsource! That's what your up against. Keep in mind, your wonderful U.S. government has been coddling companies for years and wiping out the middle class slowly but surely. Now these companies that were once coddled are now becoming targets by that same government because they can't get any of that money from the poor. No middle class left, no money from the poor, so now it's time to penalize the big corporations and the wealthy! What do you suppose those companies are choosing to do now??? You guessed it! They're leaving the U.S. and going to other countries where their money is welcomed and not penalized for having it! Everything rises and falls on leadership. We have too many people in power with no sense of honor and duty anymore and generations of people coming up who are being raised by the television, radio, video games, and a garbage media. This media is teaching a false reality to these people. This false reality is becoming the public's conscience. When ignorance is accepted as truth, nations become disconnected and start unraveling. Just as you said, we are spiraling downward because of our lack of leaders. I'm talking about leaders with a sense of integrity and character and honor and duty. It all starts right at home! What do we have at home these days? We have a government who promotes single parent families through this wonderful program called welfare! Let's make it profitable for a mother and father to live together as unmarried. Every time the family needs a raise, all they need to do is have another child! When the father feels like leaving or the mother decides to move onto greener pastures, they don't even have to worry about the divorce thing anymore. It's a great system isn't it??!!! Our mainstream culture has lost it's sense of accountability. It's been acceptable in our society to settle for average. Whatever happened to loyalty? Whatever happened to a man leading his family? Whatever happened to people looking out for one another rather than cutting someone else's throat for their own personal gain? It's been lost!

The closing of Gilman is horrible and I cannot believe you guys are wasting all this column space talking about your home businesses when 160 workers are losing their jobs. I worked for Gilman for over 20 years and I can tell you the people who are leaving there are a very valuable part of this city. I would advise any local employers to seek out these highly skilled and very talented people and make positions for them if required. you will never find a more well rounded employee than a Gilman trained worker. They are experts in Precision fitting, following prints, complex electrical and mechanical assembly and troubleshooting. They are used to 50 and 60 hour work weeks and love to take on tough jobs and will shine when given the chance. IMHO the whole problem with Gilman was short sighted leadership vision. In the last 10 years the leaders became so focused on the quarterly and monthly spreadsheets they forgot why people came to Gilman in the first place ENGINEERING AND PRECISION ASSEMBLY! Sounds alot like most of the rest of the country we are watching spiral down and short sighted leaders ship everything overseas to garner a better profit margin in the next fiscal year. You are stockholders in these companies and you are the BOSS. Your 401K monies and your stock options are what speak louder than anything anyone can say. DEMAND your investments are used to build meaningful jobs in THIS COUNTRY.
I hear alot about buying American but when I see the lines at Walmart checkout loaded with goods made in China and Indonisa I have to wonder if people are smart enough to make the connection. When you made that decision to buy that DELL computer did you consider you are employing Chinese assembly workers and Indian Engineers manning the tech support lines or did you just consider how cheap it was?
When GM made the decision to buy a French bodywelder to be the main system in the Janesville plant did anyone think about the Gilman worker then?
I hope we all are proud of ourselves because WE are the cause of the current situation defending political leaders without any regard for the truth or actual facts and just jumping on the bandwagon because it feels good.

kleej, I make more than you. And, your numbers are running low this quarter, so if you don't get some more suckers, er I mean associates signed soon I'm gonna have to cut you out of the network.

jd.....your bet would be wrong. We've been the fastest growing organization in our industry since 1999. Infact, several other organizations are leaving their business model and coming to ours. Are there people who don't succeed, of course. It's not something for nothing. Like I said, we screen people before they come onboard. Teachable, Ambitious, Honest and Looking. These qualities can be learned, however, very few will take that step towards getting better. Saves them and us alot of wasted time. As far as your pyramid reference, like I've said before, everyone has their own opinion. The only valid opinion is the one who has the facts to back that opinion up. That would be me. This subject is closed as far as I'm concerned. Kleej is movin' on. God bless everyone and from the bottom of my heart, I hope you all find your calling and that you and your families are blessed in the future.

Kleej has posted some clues. Try googling Paul Zane Pilzer, see what you get, see how comments taken from the pages that come up from that search eerily reflect some of the the verbage of Kleej's posts on this thread and THEN draw your own conclusions. 'nuff said.

Kleej...Okay, so I normally don't get pulled into these things, but I have to throw my 2-cents in. I work in a field that is heavy in technology and requires me to continually learn new things. I have to be open to new ideas and new ways to do things. I do however agree with most posters here that what you are involved in sounds a lot like a pyramid business. Anything that equals easy money, or requires you to pay a low, one time few, or that allows you to make more money by having people sign up under you...not a very good long term career plan. If it works for you...great...but don't post that it is this great thing because I bet there are more losers than winners in your line of "business".

Just another sign that this is a dying town with an ever decreasing population of QUALITY citizens. Unlike the GM drones, these people actually held positions of skill and intelligence. Hate to lose people like this. To expect them to make an educated decision and purposely remain in this town is idiotic. Run now while you're free!

You need to read! Get your information right and go from there. I'm not putting any of my company information in a blog site. Sorry. I don't work that way. You wanna know what I'm doing bad enough, find a way to get in touch with me. It's called, getting out of your comfort zone. If you have integrity, ambition, and are willing to humble yourself to learn..... this might be something for you.

There is no such thing as a "legal" pyramid scheme. A Legal corporation is not a pyramid. Yes, the government acts as a corporation, maybe poorly...so what? It is not a pyramid. We are the "shareholders" of government.

Again, unless you can give the name of your company, or tell us what product or service you are "marketing", you are propmoting a pyaramid scheme to those who will soon be laid off.

Zoom.....I'm not getting into a debate with you over any of this. If you think that your government isn't a pyramid, you need to get educated! That's the best part of my program. The educational side is necessary to tap into the income potential, but, the bonus is the actual education you're getting along the way. Like learning what your govt. is actually doing with your money for instance. Bottom line, corporate America is a legal pyramid. The government is a corporation. That's a fact. If the U.S. government weren't a corporation, why are people paying the government their first 6 months wages in taxes before actually putting the rest in their own pockets??? It's because there is a vested interest in the citizens of this country because they have money. Why do you think the retirement age keeps going up for people and our elderly are forced to work until they die? Because when they are working, they are taxpayers, thus, an "asset" to the U.S. govt. When they no longer are working, they are considered a "liability" (money going out!) Sounds like a corporation to me! And just for the record, my organization isn't just about making money! We've decided to stand up and fight for people less fortunate than we are. Like our elderly for example who are being dumped on by our government who has stuck it not only to them, but to mainstream America! How does that happen? Easy answer! WE are letting it happen. On our watch our govt. has become the conscience of this great country. You worried or scared? You ought to be! Take a look at the history of fallen countries and the eerie similarities between us and them. We are right on track. I don't care who feels the need to argue about this either. It's the truth. So you can all go sit on your "fenceposts" and decide to do nothing, or you can get off your self absorbed high horses and get out there and make a difference!!! Whatever you decide is your freedom of choice! But, when your jobs are gone and your freedoms are gone, you remember this day! You remember who the people with the courage to make a difference are! If you're not willing to be a part of the solution, you are simply part of the problem!

If you are marketing actual products or services, great. If not it's a pyramid.

The success of a McDonald's franchise is ultimately dependant on sales of food...you know...a product.

Our government is not a pyramid. We pay taxes in exchange for services we could never buy individually (roads, police, national defense, etc.).

The key identifiers of a pyramid scheme include the following:
-A highly excited sales pitch.
-A reassurance that it is not, in fact, a pyramid scheme, possibly with a false account of what a pyramid scheme is.
-Little to no information offered about the company unless an investor purchases the products and becomes a participant.
-Vaguely phrased promises of limitless income potential.
-No product, or a product being sold at a price ridiculously in excess of its real market value, or a product with minimal or unrealistic market potential. As with the company, the product is vaguely described.
-An income stream that chiefly depends on the commissions earned by enrolling new members or the purchase by members of products for their own use rather than sales to customers who are not participants in the scheme.
-A tendency for only the early investors/joiners to make any real income.
-Assurances that it is perfectly legal to participate.
-The insistence they are not here to pressure you but merely to guide you.
-The idea that there are no bosses, only coaches and mentors.

Well stated darius. I think the two of us need to hook up and see what each other has going!

actually, when Ray Kroc founded McDonalds, he was very close to being closed down because the powers that be claimed franchising was illegal and pyramadic. When it was proven wrong that it worked just the exact opposite, Kroc blazed a trail that nobody will ever duplicate with McDonalds. How did he do it? He made everyone successful which in turn made him successful. This concept has been around since the 50's! Franchises make up over 70% of all commerce in this country. There's a reason for the success. It's called win-win principles. Networking today get's a bad name because of the junk programs that existed that worked much like corporate America does today... like pyramids. I'll bet nobody in here makes more than their boss. I will also venture to guess that your boss doesn't make more than the owner of the company (unless he is the owner!) Those are called legal pyramids. The government is a legal pyramid. Schools are legal pyramids. Churches are legal pyramids. You have to be able to sift through all the garbage media out there and get the right information. Remember, a person who knows the facts and has the results will never be at the mercy of a person of opinion.

Zoom~
Providing goods and services that people want! You're catching on! It's called relational marketing.

uuhh, nobody ever thought McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Microsoft or Google were pyramid schemes. They actually provide goods and services people want.

The only reason I asked the question is because I would hate to see laid off workers get suckered. Again, if you can't give the name of your company, stop posting about it.

Oh, almost forgot. The company I'm with is on a pace that will exceed the growth of Amazon and Ebay. Everyone thought they were a "pyramid" too. Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Google etc. all heard the same garbage too and who's laughing now?? Like I said, those who ignore the new rules will be ingnored as well.

Can we please stop reading about kleej's Amway sales or Nigerian oil scam or whatever it is and get back to the story at hand? THANKS

kleej,
People are always critical of others because they don't have the courage to get the right information and they don't have the ambition to put it to work. I'm involved in the same field you are and it's working out well for me as well. Put it this way, it got me out of GM before the walls came tumbling down. I wasn't going to be one of those who chose to "go down with the ship". Best wishes on your future. We have alot to look forward to. I too would like to see others step out rather than step on everyone else because they choose to do something different and are successful at it. Let the cowards mock! Rock on!

You think what you like. Like I said, the rules have changed. I'm long over the "ponzi scheme" or pyramid theory. Am I into networking, you bet I am. Networking puts you in the drivers seat as far as the global economy goes. Networking is more common than you think. Infact, any business out there is someway invovled in networking. If they're not, they won't be in business long. What I do works very much the same way McDonald's works. What a "ponzi scheme" that turned out be! Draw your conclusions as you see fit. I'll have made more money by tonight than I had when I woke up this morning and, I won't be spending 8-10 hours trading my time for money to earn it. Welcome to the information age!

Zoom I was thinking the same thing, pryamid or some other fishy business.

Your job is internet based, yet you say you can't develop trust and relationships on the internet? What?

If you have to be so secretive, then I'm guessing it's some type of pyramid or ponzi scheme. Good luck with that.

And by the way, any time you mention your fantastic job, you ARE openly talking about and advertising it. If you won't describe your job, then your posts read like solicitations.

Zoom~
I don't put my posts in here to solicit anyone. My hope is to help others understand there is a great deal of opportunity out there. I've done enough homework to understand what's happening economically to mainstream American families. It's all about change. This is a quote from Paul Zane Pilser regarding the information age. There are those who will ignore the new rules. "Those who choose to be in denial and ignore those rules....success will ignore you"....
To answer you question, can others do what I do? ABSOLUTELY YES! I was blessed enough to have someone who trusted in me and thought highly enough of me to show me this information. Was I open minded at first? NO WAY! I though I already had all the answers and didn't need to know anything about this "information age" program. Thank God this person stood by me and didn't give up on me. I'm all about paying it forward, however, our program is based on trust and relationships and it's not possible to develop those things on the internet! That's why I don't openly talk about my program. We don't advertise. It's strictly word of mouth.

your

Kleej,
You've made many posts about your fantastic job. If you are encouraging others to change, why won't you tell anyone what you job is?

~rustytrombone
Nothing against ebay or anything else, but, they're working way to hard. I've learned to leverage my time. I'm not into talking about my finances. However, as I've said before, the results I've gotten doing what I'm doing have been way beyond my intelligence capability. I had to do something that most people won't do....CHANGE! It's starts with that one thing that alot of people don't realize they need to work on and that's called your "thinking". As far as your reference using the word "whore", you might want to start right there. Your choice of words or lack thereof.

The following are 2 definitions of Laissez faire as given at Merriam-Webster.com's online dictionary.
Laissez faire,
1 : a doctrine opposing governmental interference in economic affairs beyond the minimum necessary for the maintenance of peace and property rights
2 : a philosophy or practice characterized by a usually deliberate abstention from direction or interference especially with individual freedom of choice and action

Those definitions sound very much like the principles that this nation was founded on. There is a competing philosophy from the 19th century as well. It’s called Marxism, and its definition is as follows from the same source.
Marxism,
: the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society

Is Marxism for our country what you have in mind? Perhaps you would feel better if Robin Hood were President.

By the way, Clinton and Obama are doing pretty well. We won’t have to concern ourselves with their economic situations, either, unless of course Hillary can't get back the $9 million or so that she lent her campaign out of her own pocket. But then, after 2 terms in the Senate, her government pension will be plenty.

Well, Bush certainly will live out the rest of his days in comfortable wealth. The rest of the country, I guess, has to make do for themselves.
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Laissez faire, I was always taught, was an economic policy of the 19th century. Little did we know.

Plans to bankrupt America? I realize it's the silly season and outrageous statements are the order of the day, but you don't really believe the president wants to bankrupt the country, do you? Next you'll claim he's trying to exterminate the younger generation, while trying to force your grandma to eat dog food.

GWENDT:

realzing how incredibly easy it is top blame the president for everything, swing on over to maps.google.com and enter auburn hills, mi.
you'll discover:

* parts of michigan actually touch wisconsin.
* michigan borders ohio and indiana.
* it also borders canada )perhaps someone speaking french canadian has you confused).

a quick fact check, Former President, Bill Clinton aggressively pursued policies that led to massive outsourcing of jobs in the mid-90's. Recall if you will, Clinton was a democrat.

just a bit for these "information age" addicts.Major companies in America are "outsourcing" to foreign companies for years. your so-called "new jobs" are already being answered in a foreign language. Bush & company are succeding in their plan to bankrupt America.

So Kleej-
Are you one of those at home claims processors or e-bay whores? Not knocking it- just curious what it is and what kind of jack you bring in a month.

`pubsrus
I've got news for you too. I'm not an engineer and I'm making a living in the information age by putting myself right smack dab in the middle of this global economy we live in....right from the keyboard of my home PC! You're right, the jobs are being outsourced left and right! You better find something internet based that puts you within a click of Japan, China, Russia, Germany....etc. or you're just running in quicksand. I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just a fact. I'm not smart enough to be getting the results I am. That's the info. age for you! It's evened the playing field for average "joes" like me to succeed... If I can do it, anyone can. Cheers!

These jobs did not go overseas, unless Lake Michigan counts!
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They are also the type of job that the US remains good at -- high-end manufacturing and engineering. In the long term this type of job will remain a good bet.
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Right now we're facing a perfect storm, some of it directly due to government inattention and deliberate laissez-faire policies, including a strong dollar, soaring oil prices, a mortgage and housing bust, and the beginnings of a recession. But Janesville, at least, has some very good indicators of long-term strength and stability, and has broadened its industry mix over the last couple of decades.
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I suspect most of the manufacturing people will eventually be able to stay in relatively local manufacturing jobs, although the engineering people will have to look farther afield.

"pubsrus" hit the nail square on the head. Too many people throw their hands up in the air and give up and let our jobs be outsourced to the lowest bidder overseas. They all say the same thing, that we will find new jobs to replace those lost. Problem is, the "new" jobs pay less. Now, how are you going to grow this economy when more and more people earn less money than they did in their previous job? Oh there are some people who might have connections to get a "new" job of the same pay or possibly more but they are few. I'm not sure the Federal government has figured it out. The new jobs that pay less bring in less in taxes, thus the government can't keep up maintaining the infrastructure of our country. Rather than always cutting down the auto workers and the AAM workers for standing up for a decent living wage why not join them and demand this country keep good paying jobs here rather than giving up so easily to corporate greed?

Sounds like the American Auto Industry is circling the wagons around Detroit. I really don't think corporate taxes are what is forcing them to shut their doors in Janesville. In fact Wisconsin taxes on businesses are pretty low http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/arti... according to Ernst & Young. I think its the fact that high gas prices have crippled the sales of SUV which is something that lowering taxes will not solve (especially if it means taking funding away from infrastructure and higher education). Hope it all works out for the guys that lost their jobs and indeed for all of us out there hoping we won't be next.

Hey kleej, I got a heads up for you. the information tech jobs are being outsourced too as are engineering jobs. Welcome to India, where we will do it for half the money. This whole country better wake up. If you don't produce anything and your wages are driven down to the point you can't buy anything, I don't care how cheap something is you are broke. This whole country has sold its soverignty to the cheapest bidder. If all the foreign owned companies cashed in their chips we would be a bankrupt country.

Having lost my job in an industry that required a specialized degree, I understand what the employees are feeling. It is a great blow to a family!

Yet, on the downside, Janesville now may be able to understand, even a little bit, what Beloit has been going through for years. Just like Janesville, there are a number of educated people that live in Beloit. Unfortunately, Beloit gets the bad rap because of a few bad apples that do not know any better.

So, as we go through this process of supporting our local community, try to put things in perspective. Maybe Janesville can learn a lot from Beloit. Or maybe, the two municipalities can work together to better the local economy!?

I have a problem with the Gazette quoting blog postings in their news articles. Has the author of this article verified that the person posting really worked at Gilman?

One word. TAXES

Why is it that companies refuse to relocate in Wisconsin?

Uhm, Kleej? A pretty big group of these people are engineers. They're highly-paid, intelligent people who are very much a part of the information age. There are still jobs for engineers, but not many in the greater Janesville area...this is more a blow for the people who HAVE degrees in Janesville. As it is, there aren't enough jobs for educated people in Janesville...and if these jobs continue to leave, it'll just get worse. However, the business formerly known as Gilman has been cutting engineers left and right for years to save money...it was probably only a matter of time.

tick tock tick tock tick tock.........
We are in the information age. There's more opportunity than ever before for people, it's just not in the industrial sector of business.