Smoking hurts everyone

The rolling thunder of all these smoking bands will help keep pot smoking illegal.

jguernsey - That is exactly the point I was trying to make in my post on Sept 19. Thanks for looking at the big picture!

The toxic problems of marijuana smoke beyond the effects of THC will cause it to never be legalized as a smoking product. THC in pill form might be legalized.

Medicinal and other uses for pot might be legalized.

I know a bar owner, who is a nonsmoker, and he said it the best.

"At any time right now I can put up a no smoking sign and this bar will be nonsmoking. I don't because I know my customers smoke. I really don't think that the government has any business telling me how to run my business."

My thoughts, everyone knows that there is smoking in bars. If you apply for a job at a bar and then complain about the smoke, you shouldn't have got a job there in the first place. That establishment has been there, most likely, long before you came around, why should it suddenly be their problem that you want a job and are concerned about your health. Go work somewhere else, no one is forcing you to work there. It's most likely going to pass and it will be one more intrusion of the government into our lives.

I don't know how recent that study was conducted. The smoking/drinking connection has been known for some time. I think the cause is related to how nicotine constricts the blood vessels and increases heart rate, but I could be wrong. Not just in teenagers, in everyone.

A recent study shows that smoking tobacco aggravates the effect of alcohol in teenagers.

banyan99, you got me thinking about that TV thing. TVs are very annoying in bars. Should only be allowed for the big game, none of that other stuff.

I'm not sure about the lemonade either. Is it like Mike's Hard Lemonade?

thekid: That sounds interesting. I might go and set up a snack food stand and make a fortune!!! Will it be OK if I wear a respirator? I don't want to think I'm back on Yasgar's farm.

banyan99 - you a smart cookie!!! I agree America - the land of the free, is becoming more communist every day. I am not a smoker or a drinker but I believe in the rights of my fellow americans to run their business as they choose. I even go to a bar once in awhile, I love bar burgers, but I know walking into the place what I'm getting into. If I don't wish to breath in second-hand smoke I don't go, that's my right, I believe if a business owner chooses to ban smokers that's their right, if they choose to allow smoking that is their right. If people choose to go to the beach and tan that's their right and the government should let us free people be free to choose what we want.

The arguments I’ve read so far (no, I didn’t read all posts since Feb) don’t appear to see the bigger picture. They argue for or against smoking. My father and I argued this point for hours before seeing the big picture; we should be on the side of the business owner to regulate their business as they see fit – this is American.
Helpful example: I open “Tres Chic Supper Club,” you open “Your Sport’s Bar & Grill,” and my dad opens, “Stan’s Cigars.” The government decides smoking (a legal act) in public is a public health issue which needs to be regulated. My dad’s cigar club goes out of business because his revenue comes from smoking customers. I say nothing; my club doesn’t allow smoking.

The government, pleased with their success, decides to ban TV watching (a legal act) in public places. There is a direct correlative link between television watching and obesity; as television watching increases, so does obesity. The government decides this is a public health issue - TV in public needs to be regulated. I’m sorry, but without TVs in Your Sports Bar & Grill on which to watch the big game, your business goes under. I say nothing; I don’t have television in my swanky club.

The government, pleased with their past success, decides to ban dining el fresco (outdoors). There is a direct correlative link between sun exposure and skin cancer; the more hours of sun exposure, the higher the risk of skin cancer. The government decides this is a public health issue - public sun exposure needs regulation. Because my club has outdoor seating I am forced to close.

The cigar shop example is an actual example from Seattle, which happened after the recent smoking ban. The study about TV viewing and obesity I referenced recently in a college paper. We all know too much sun gives people skin cancer. These examples are realistic examples of the government regulating a legal activity taking place in a private business ‘for public safety.’ The studies conducted regarding second hand smoke reference non-smokers LIVING WITH smokers. That is not the same as sitting in a bar for 3 or 6 or even 10 hours with smokers. Smoke is annoying, stinking and unpleasant. However, sitting in a properly ventilated room for a few hours with smokers will not kill you. If it did, there would be no debate!

Should the government regulate how a private business is run? As appealing as the end result is in this case (smoke free environments), government intervention is not the answer. Contact your local business owners and let them know they are losing your business because they allow smoking. Ask them to consider having smoke free events occasionally and ADVERTISE THEM AS SUCH. A smoke free night at a bowling alley/club would attract people who currently avoid them, allowing business owners to assess if this is a viable or necessary option for their business. Let business owners decide how to run private business based on their customer’s feedback, not the government’s demands.

i guess i NEED some meds cuz apparently ya lost me on the lemonade;)...gfan there are just to many smokers to know em all...BUT if ya wanna meet a few...it is almost harvest time which means 38th annual midwest marijuana festival in madison!! march up state st to the capitol on sunday 10/5 at 3:00!! and yes the smoke flies during the march!! kewlest...walk...ever.....

thekidd..Are you eating oreos ??lol You must be you're a little slow today on the "lemonade"

I thought all the stoners around here knew each other, and hungout. Have your conventions at the Lannon Stone Motel. Lannon Stoners

im a lemonade junkie when i go to the bars and since most people enjoy a nice tall glass of ice cold lemonade id say no fault.

I would like to know why we have to have a state wide ban. I think that each city should beable to come up with there own ban.I think that janesville has a very gd. ban. When you take it out of the bars that is strickly to go against smokers.

thekid...What about lemonade ??

gazettefan-apparently Obama smokes (or recently quit, or is trying to). Not long ago I saw a news bit on CNN I believe where an aid was to be nearby in case he needed some nicotine gum during public events.
"This has been a nonpartisan announcement."

my stoner friends are a little more repsonsible than that. based on your logic if im hit by someone drinking rum you would be financially responsible??;)

Yes, you don't want those things in bars, right?

Im sick of automible exhaust, trians, bus, dumptrucks you get the idea

Well first off I do smoke.. As a smoker you need to have understanding for those around you.I wouldn't light-up in a crowd of people,I don't throw my butts on the ground.I will always look for a ashtray if can't find one I step on it and pick it up and put it in my pocket.Yes I did start my pocket on fire once !I don't think my rights as a smoker are being taken away .It's nice to go out to eat and touch the back of a chair and not have nicotine all over your fingers.Smokers just need to care about others around them.Non-smokers I suggest to you if cigarette smoke bothers you just ask that person to move away or put it out.In a nice way of course !!

Hey, thekid, you owe me 4 bucks. The other day I was waiting at a stoplight when four of your stoner friends pulled up next to me, each one toking on a big blunt. Smoke was billowing out to the car like it was on fire. I was going to make a citizen's arrest but instead I got a severe case of the munchies. Had to go to the Quik Mart to chow down on Oreos.

The assembly is supposed to vote on it in January. Not soon enough though.

told you anti smoking ban folks it wont be long now!

The word is: The Wisconsin statewide smoking ban will pass soon!!!

Obama, McCain, Biden, and Palin don't smoke.

Willie Nelson smokes.

Lake County, Illinois, a county that borders Wisconsin, will ban smoking in public housing. The Long March continues.

I also forgot to mention heart disease.

I forgot emphysema, many of them will die choking on their own sputum.

I doubt that those folk losing ONLY 1.4 years of their life are going to be dying in their sleep.

Haeight, don't be lighten' up when you're gassing up.

And thanks for bringing us all back on point.

And, everyone has a last 10 years. And those years will not be enjoyable with throat cancer, cancer of the tong, and lung cancer, and the possible realization (if smokers have a conscience at all) that one person's cigarette smoke caused these same diseases in many nonsmoking people including friends and family members.

You mean missing out on gas being $100 a gallon? Sign me up, 12 years ago gas was 1/4 the price it was now, smokes were 1/3. Overall prices on everything have doubled. But the avg wage has not doubled.

God forbid anyone wants to miss out on the end.

Many years ago, perhaps 20 or so, I heard the argument that for every minute that you smoke you shorten your life 1 minute. Those who put forth that proposition stated that the average smoker, by their estimation, would lose 10 years of their life.
A cynical response by unimpressed smokers was "yes, but it's the last 10 years, so who cares". I wonder how many of those smokers don't care now that they are 20 years older and may be hoping they haven’t lost those extra years after all.

nowwhat, maker sure to snuff out those cancer sticks.

My god how much longer is this blog going to be on here. I think 6 months is more than enough. There is nothing more that can be said. Move on and moan and groan about some other topic. It's time to get rid of this thing.

Jeez!!!

No I don't get it. Smoking forever only drops an avg of 7 years off a persons life. That is smoking a pack a day your whole life. That includes the second hand smoke you inhale while your smoking.

But your concerned about an infinitesimal time, in comparison to those smokers, nonsmokers are exposed to it. Lets see that would be 70 vs 77 years of life. That is what 9.1% for an entire lifetime of smoking. Assuming its a pack a day habit, over a 10 hour period, though most are over an 14-18 hour period. That avg is 2 smokes an hour.

Lets assume you spend 2 hours a day around a smoker. That means you get to smoke about 20% of that amount. So your looking at 1.4 years of your life lost on an avg from being around a smoker for 2h a day your entire life.

That is 14h a week, and god forbid you spend 14h a week at a smoke filled bar you would be an alcoholic, with a greater risk of developing cancer from the alcohol. I refer you to some point in the posts below about alcohol related cancer risks.

So yes please oh please draw me a picture or something about how the bad smokers affect your life. That banning smoking in bars will change. Everywhere else you can have smoke free, most smokers don't care about smoking anywhere else. Except maybe outdoor stadiums.

Haeight, tobacco smoke is harmful, vehicle fumes are harmful, tobacco smoke and vehicle fumes are more harmful together than just tobacco smoke or vehicle fumes alone. GET IT?!!!

How do you know non-smokers don't share the same fanaticism about other pollutants? The article above is about smoking in public places, so most people choose to remain on topic.

The world doesn't revolve around me, but I prefer that clean air does.

Chain smoking cigarettes even in a confined space won't kill me faster than being around vehicle exhaust.

Which brings the nonsmoking cancer defense back to, is it your commute/factory you work in that is giving you cancer or the 5 seconds of second hand smoke?

I love the fact your fanatic about attacking pollution and inherent diseases. But its sad you don't share that same fanatacism when it comes to other pollutants.

Its also a shame the nonsmokers think the world revolves around them. Apparently they still believe they are the only group worthy of being in a public place.

Think the toxicity of vehicles is bad? Try checking out "about.com/cancer" and read the 599 ingredients that are put into each cigarette.

The toxicity of vehicle fumes does not lessen the toxicity of tobacco fumes.

Good thinking on the car pollution problem.

We'll do what we can about toxic fumes of all kinds as fast as we can deal with them.

While were cleaning up our air, let's ban outdoor smoking too.

Internal combustion emissions from your car are much more toxic than tobacco smoke. Your car emits hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxides, particulate matter, carbon monoxide, toxic organic compounds such as formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, and benzene.

A typical car emits more carbon monoxide in 60 minutes than a tobacco smoker does in their entire lifetime. Imagine what a 6000lb pickup or SUV spits out, not to mention the amount of petroleum it will consume in it's lifetime.

100+ years of the internal combustion engine is taking it's toll on our health and the environment.

And one of our biggest public concerns is burning the tobacco plant?

lgirl, your heartfelt concern about how your and the stress-relieving habits of your fellow smokers are a danger to nonsmokers is appreciated.

But it seems toward the end of your post a possible case of nicotine withdrawal caused you, in a round-about way, to turn on us nonsmokers and as a result you took the wrath off yourself and directed it at the tobacco companies.

Thank you for your efforts to not make your smoking habit a problem for others. And when things get gloomy, please keep the faith.

Since I was sensored and my second post makes no sense at all without the first, I shall kindly reword it. Obviously, I'm a smoker. I realize second hand smoke is a problem and yes, people who have never smoked in their life do suffer from cancer or some other health issue related to smoking. Look, I smoke for stress. Call it an excuse all you want, but that's just how it is. I don't smoke in a lot of public places due to complaints, which I understand. If I happen to really need a cigarette, I go outside, lean against the building where there is little to no people around and smoke. I TRY to respect others wishes even though it is a free country and I really shouldn't care what people think or say but I do. Yet, you continue to complain and complain about my habit / way of handling my stress (as unhealthy as it is) despite not only me effort, but the effort of many other people. I can already tell some smartass is going to say just quit and that would solve the entire problem but you are not me. Unless you were me, you wouldn't get what having one cigarette does for me, or others. Some have smoked for more than 20 years, how can you expect them to just quit? It takes time, just like anything, and you can't expect smoking to just go away. Unless you people put all of your focus on the Tobacco companies actually trying to do something to stop it, I don't want to hear it. There is always going to be smokers and non smokers. We just have to find a solution where both can be happy instead of bashing each other left and right about a problem that has lasted longer than I have been alive. It's pointless. So really, I'm sorry if the smell of smoke irritates you non smokers and I'm sorry that you are afraid you might get cancer from a little second hand smoke, but your complaining isn't doing anything but irritate more and more people. There is always two sides to a story or situation, so don't go cramming your way of life down people's throats who are trying to cooperate with you. Save the complaining for the people, rather company, at fault instead of the people who gave into temptation and stress.

The Surgeon General has determined that people who don't smoke think people who do smoke are insane.

Good suggestion.

The government can't ban gas passing and they won't ban tobacco smoking so maybe it could mandate that someone invent some kind of personal catalytic converter with a tube and mask that smokers wear on their face while they smoke, with another tube that can be worn.... well, I'll leave to the imangination where the other tube can be worn.

It's close enough for what passes for speech for some people to be protected by the First Amendment.

I don't think they can do that!

The government should ban passing gas in public.

My last post below was for luckystrike, I mean luckyducky.

nurse4u, great post for the subject.

You nut!!! Well no, then the doctors will be able to spend more 20 seconds with you. Another way in which our quality of life will improve.

I am sure that I would be happier with less patients if it meant stopping lung cancer, throat cancer, COPD, asthma, etc.etc.
It would be nice to be able to visit restaurants with my daughter that we can NOT go to because of her heart/lung conditions (she can not be around cigarette smoke).
We were at the lake and we had to leave because of all the patrons that were smoking-it was $10 a person to be admitted to this lake. I have a big family, and they were extremely disappointed that we could not stay. But, hey at least the other patrons got to smoke!
There was a bar at this lake, and I think they should have cigarette smoking prohibited on the lake and only in the bar.
All I know is, I won't be going back.

The lost revenue will be more than offset by the general improvement of everyone's health. It's a fair trade-off for improved quality of life.

luckyducky, Kenosha's joining the side of the righteous. Soon there'll be a statewide smoking ban.

That darn Surgeon General is a real straight-shooter!!!

I'm going to have to agree with the surgeon general. LOL

The Surgeon General has determined that smoking cigarettes makes you stink.

News studies reveal that secondhand smoke is more deadly to children than previosly thought.

All people in favor of the smoking ban should support any law that forbids smoking in vehicles with children.

cocktail, sometimes the people needs to impose its will by way of the government. Try to think about it being any other way. Democracy goes hand in hand with capitalism: capitalism is not on the loose independent of democacy.

I still think pure capitalism should decide this issue. Of course I have never seen a smoke-free bar in an area that doesn't prohibit it. Maybe they would be more profitable. Any of you bar owners want to try a little experiment?

I'm with you, nurse4u, this blog is the record breaker because people don't want cigarette smoking in bars!!!

Am I there yet????
Whoo!! That took a LONG time to get to the bottom to post..what was I gonna say? Oh yea..
It sure would be nice to be able to go out and not have to worry about my hair & clothes smelling like cigarette smoke..

This settles it: Soon there will be no smoking in bars in Wisconsin.

haight and those against this- time will tell AND THE MAJORITY WILL WIN.

http://www.nbc15.com/polls?pollID=193294...

as do I, lynda. I watched my father die because of lung cancer. One would wonder why/how I would smoke knowing how it affected my family in such a horrible, painful way.

Addiction is bizarre. It allows one to minimize the affects, justify one's behavior and make promises that one cannot live up to ("I'll quit tomorrow"). I was insensitive to joke about going out to buy more cigarettes, but the reality is: I'm not quite ready to quit yet. Don't ask me why. I have asked myself the same question many many times.

lynda, sorry for not sounding serious in my recent posts. I understand the full meaning of your post.

tjncj and Zoom, sorry, I got mixed up on who wrote what.

Yes, tjncj, it was gripping. I was reminded of my own experience. Take the next "1000".

Novecientos noventa y tres.

Zoom, tjncj, had 1000. But alright, novecientos noventa y dos.

lynda, a very valuble post, thanks.

I have been smoke free now for about 14 years and still have health problems because of the years of smoking. I really hope that a complete ban will someday be in effect for all of us. I watched someone very close to me die from this insidious drug and it was pretty sad as their last breath was one of misery. It's all so meaningless and preventable.

Zoom, I intentionally made post # 1000 on topic, telling in gripping detail my only smoking experience. 990.

The last 15 posts (including mine) are off topic, and shouldn't count. I'm rolling back the meter.

988

YES!

Good work, sassy and tjncj. I think trey is French.

I smoked a cigarette once. It made me cough.

I don't think it is. Maybe it should have been "tres" or just plain old three.

Is trey Latin?

no habla espanol.

Estoy seguro que un día no voy a fumar. No estoy seguro de que aún si será porque dejé o porque mató a mí.

Novecientos noventa y siete

For others like me, because I am confident that others are STILL reading this blog...ha! I said:

I'm sure one day I will not smoke. I'm not sure yet if that will be because I quit or because they killed me.

Nine hundred ninety-seven

Courtesy of: http://www.google.com/translate_t

sassy, maybe someday you won't smoke.

novecientos noventa y seis

I do not want to see this blog die out, even though nearly everything that can be said on the issue has been.

That said, I just got back from buying another very expensive pack of cigarettes, which I will probably smoke. *sigh*

995. :)

LOL,tjntj.

If staff doesn't shut down this very important smoking ban blog at 999, I will not do post 1000: I don't think I'll be able to stand the excitement.

novecientos noventa y cuatro

Novem centum nonaginta trey

I think the mentions of the stinky stuff were the problems. Only tolerable on the other blogs.

Novecientos noventa y dos.

hey! I was only censored two times on gazettextra! maybe three, but who's counting?

oh yeah, NVgrf is. :D

Let me know if Guinness will consider it, cuz I think I have been fairly tame compared to many here...but that's just me.

I didn't read any of these comments. I just tuned in to see how many times ms sassy gets censored. Three more and I'm calling Guinness!

tjncj, you are one smart cookie! I had to check though, to make sure you had all of the X's and V's in the right places....(you do!)

Are you from Rome?

Or at least Italy? LOL

989, btw

CMLXXXVIII

For me no smoking would be great. I have asthma and when it kicks up any amount of tobacco smoke makes next to impossible to breathe. I don't want to take smoker's rights away, but I would like my rights to be able to go places that I can't go now. Smokers CAN live without smoking for a bit, but I CAN'T live without breathing. I just had to leave my job because even though the staff and residents smoked outside, they smoked just outside the doors and the smoke would all come back into the building. My asthma kicked in and I have not been able to work for just over a month. Management would not do anything about it. No one would even go faher away from the doors to smoke either. I have coughed so much and so hard that I have re-injured a rib that I broke in an accident in January. I have to lose my income, take extra meds, and cough for a month.Is that fair? I take my meds as prescribed and do everything I am supposed to do to try to avoid asthma issues. Why does it have to be such an issue for smokers to give it up for a little while when they go out? California and some parts of Colorado were great! No smoking in public places and these places had lots of business. Smokers have their right to smoke, but people like me have a right to breathe and be able to go out also.

please accept my sincere apology to the gazette staff and anyone commenting whom I offended with my language...

and possibly my last comment on this article: with any right there is a responsibility. As an occasional smoker, I feel it is my responsibility to make the environment of the non-smoker as clean as possible. After all, I am the one who is choosing to smoke, therefore, it is also my responsibility to reduce the interference of my smoking on others. I think it has to do with manners as much as anything else.

Ya, and so is the whole, "Oh my god, I'm going to get cancer for sure if I inhale a bit of smoke." And smokers have "modified their behavior" yet people still bitch. Hell, we can't even go to certain bars anymore. Isn't that what a bar is for? Smoking and drinking? And I say we lock you in your house for a long period of time, let's see how you do.

Yes, cars pollute. I think driving them indoors has already been banned.

The law won't require people to quit smoking, just modify their behavior. The idea that people will turn into "unsocial psychopaths" is a little dramatic.

LOL..only if you wanted to, gazettefan...only if you wanted to. don't forget about the beads and incense though, too, if you're going the guru route. can't have one without the others, can ya?

Would I have to get a guru?

Nine hundred and seventy eight

977

and good one jsvlparkergrad!

(however, technically, I believe this is a count UP, but who on the gazettextra.com gets technical?!)

Ok, wis1031, let me see if I have your logic straight:

By REMOVING harmful toxic fumes from confined public places, we will all somehow end up herded into confined secret places for the specific purpose of being murdered by the RELEASE of toxic fumes.

I'm Casey Kasem, now on with the countdown.

Ahhhhh, just got back to my house from downtown Toronto. What a gorgeous day!

Especially enjoyed all the non-smoking places, bars included.

Yep, saw that box car go by....oh, WAIT! It was a streetcar, and everyone was smiling and having a good time (must be the pot they are able to smoke legally here)!

I think it is time to take the money away from the bars , bowling alley's, and restaurants they don't need that money from there 25 to 40 percent of there customers. After this we should outlaw 1person in a car and the amount of children you can have. You idiots don't realize its not a health matter its a private citizen issue. Go ahead and give up your rights (until it is something legal you want to do).Change the laws and then we can all go quietly on the box cars.

972

Hey, tjncj, do you think cyberspace grows on trees?! ;)

970

Studies have revealed that cigarette smoke mixed with the interior smell of a new car is especially toxic.

That's right Hannah.

And Zoom, coffeman's not fooling anyone. He's knows this train's been in station long enough.

ALL ABOARD!!!

Coffeeman,
If you didn't want the discussion to continue, why did you comment two days after the post before yours?

coffeman- it just isnt smokers against non smokers. As I mentioned my husband smokes and he would prefer no smoking in all public places. cause the cloud of smoke that is in a bar cannot be handled by their air systems. Just cause someone smokes doesnt mean they want the WHOLE bars smoke on them

The beatings will continue until moral improves.

Why is this discussion even being allowed to go on? Other discussions are pulled right away even though they are popular. I think 936 comments just about covers it all and it will always be smokers against non-smokers. Remove this blog please!!!!!! There is no other ways to present your arguments differently than what has already been stated.

good point gazettefan on the health code issue and "the rights"

crazycatlady- if you have read this whole forum yould see we already debated this agrument. you shouldnt have a right to smoke in a public place that you eat in. BAD AIR QUALITY. I am still suprised they dont use this agrument for taverns. they cook food in there is should eb against health code to polute the air with cigarette smoke IN ANY PUBLIC PLACE. and if YOU dont like YOU dont have to go in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I enjoyed several of the no-smoking venues in Madison yesterday. It's only a matter of time, Janesville.

justthe..., logic from the anti-banners?! That's a laugh!!!

If Haeight is your champion, you should give his posts a good read. Logic and clarity are grossly absent.

crazycatlady, tells us how eager you would be to eat in a restaurant that was exempt form health codes.

Health codes are government imposed requirements for the purose of assuring healthy conditions in privately owned businesses patronized by the public.

OK here's how I see it. Smoking cigarettes is legal, it's not good for you but it is legal. Eating at McDonald's is legal, it's not good for you but it is legal. You own your own business, it is YOUR business, it does not belong to the government, it does not belong to the people, it belongs to you. What gives anyone the right to tell you what you can & cannot do in your own business as long as it is legal. So just make it a law that if you allow smoking in your establishment that has to be made known in any advertising that you do & a sign has to be posted on the door that clearly states this is a smoking establishment, then if you don't want to go there guess what you don't have to. But the choice should be up to the business owner, not the government or anyone else.

justthefacts,
In none of my posts did I "defend" hannah or gazettefan, nor did I have to. You, on the other hand, felt the need to "defend" haeight all the way back on post #16!

Feb 6, 2008 at 2:02 p.m.
"Haeight said: "While lining up countless non mokers I know that think its wrong to live in a dictatorship."
This non-smokers still with ya Haeight!"

What are we, back in grade school?

Well, just...., it was dead until you came along. Maybe now Haeight will come out of the Bat Cave.

The Tavern League interferred with the ban for the purpose of lining the pockets of the bar owners near the Illinois and Minnesota statelines. That will end.

Seriously...your still going on about this? If you actually reveiw the posts for their context, it appears Haeght and the anti-banners won this "debate" long ago (at least they presented a more logically consistant argument). Oh, and in case you haven't noticed the ban is benched for the meantime at least. I quit participating in this blog 2 month's ago because nothing new was being added to it. Haeght would state some facts...gazzettefan would say he was off topic, hannah would chime in with a quirky little chirp here and there, and zoom would be there to defend the latter two. The only thing that has changed is that each side has managed to round up a couple individuals into their respective "posse". Do you really think your going to change each others minds at this point? Isn't there another post we can beat to death by arguing in a futile manner?

The toxicities of pot and tobacco are one and the same problem. There's no getting around it.

"Our whole society is based off that concept of standing on the poorer."

...I LOL'd

"...me first and screw all others..." is exactly what a smoker is saying when he lights up in a public place.

I haven't worn blinders in years. Its sad the majority of people in society are so self absorbed they wish to bend all aspects of that society to their will. This is the inherent janesville attitude I spoke of the attitude of entitlement. The me first and screw all others aspect of the daily life, the lets pull out in front of traffic because there is just barely enough room for them to hit me in the rear end and have it be their fault.

The overall absence of empathy to anyones wishes beyond their own. I have freely admitted The only place I care about enjoying a cigarette is at a bar. I even offered multiple solutions to drive a dominate smoke free tavern enviroment. But alas you care not.

Like every person in our country I pollute, but so do you. You could at least demonstrate you have read some of the information posted through out this conversation. Instead of trying to get a rise out of the rest of the smoke free lackeys.

Being so wrapped up into the issue you all would do well to pull the blinders off and view the precipice your smoke free bill sits upon. I have shown multiple avenues it could be constitutionally attacked. In order to establish smoking only places of business. You can lead a horse to water...

thekid..., you and Haeight are two of a kind when it comes to polluting the air.

That's right Haeight, you're not looking at the big picture.

haight you keep mentioning the NONSMokers. their are some SMOKERS on this blog that are fine and would prefer no smoking bar. maybe you should reread(aloud if it helps you)

I granted to thekid... that pot smoking might be legalized for home use bu