OH yeh. almost forgot about the comment about the 4th graders and the museum. What's funny is that we would pay for that too- you darn well know that the parents would be charged a field trip fee to go to the museum. :)

Interesting reading the comments. the pro and con. I think a museum is a good idea- just not right now. Janesville may be fine as more leave due to GM. But it's still early and we don't know yet.
BUt those who are so "for doing this now"- you must be forgetting about the bike tunnel that was approved and the improvements to the wastewater plant (which stated a 30% increase in bill) and the skate park (which I think is a good idea too) but hope that funding can come from grants not the taxpayers. Oh yeh, and what about the school district changes? They just approved the new language project. Even if they cut things this year- the increase will be larger next year or the year after.
So you must really like seeing a big hike in your taxes- without being able to vote on it. Some of these would be better in a referendum.

I'm so tired of everything going up right now. My money doesn't go anywhere near as far as it use to and I'm constantly looking for ways to cut things in my budget. But if my taxes go up? I don't want to happen to me what happened to my sister. Her taxes went up $3000 in one year due to petty little things in her area. She has to sell her house now because she can't afford to live there and her house was very modest and they were living reasonably. Who can afford a shocker like that?
They will nickle and dime us out of our homes.

I think that we should have a referendum to decide if we should have another referendum to decide if there should be a referendum on the museum. All of the referendum whiners out there, good thing you aren't in charge of the city. Nothing would ever get done 'cuz we would be too busy voting on issues that we already have elected officials in place to decide on.

This is ridiculous.

Why would any city support a program that will continue to cost the tax payer $500,000 a year when we don't have enough money for the Talman House or even Rotory Gardens. Does no one remember the ice arena?

I wonder what percentage of the estimated attendance of the proposed Children's Museum is from grade school field trips? "If you build it, and it becomes an assigned field trip in your child's class, they will come." I wonder if there was a blanket estimate of say, EVERY 4th grader in the Janesville Public School System, followed by a "rough estimate" of a high percentage of the surrounding community's 4th grade classes as a "sure thing"?
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It would be interesting to see the details of how they estimated annual attendance.

The main idea in this whole thing is that people just DO NOT have the money to spare right now. Take a look at this story from Yahoo today. Then you will see what I mean.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080814/bs_n...
I would say this is much more important than needless spending...

What this city needs to do, Is add more money to the liesure services budget to provide more activities and tell the big wigs like Mike Williams who heads it to take a pay cut. He and his buddy cronies there dont know how to stop making their salaries big and fat while cutting activities with the cronies like Steve Shieffer.

really:
I'm not coming down on Amy's idea to wait for six months. I'm coming down on the fact that she said she's not willing to put the issue to a referendum because it might "die". That is insulting to the taxpayers. I also take issue with the tax burden a childrens museum will cause. I, too, have been to the children's museum in Madison. It is definitley a trip we make once or twice a year--and we're in Madison as a family about once or twice a month. It is a great resource, in theory. I think that this will be something that will be interesting for about two minutes, then abandoned. I've been wrong before, though.
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Also, I wonder why you think this city is particularly lacking things for kids to do? Palmer Park pool, Rockport Pool, YMCA, at least two dozen parks, movie theatres, bike trails, etc. I know this is cliche, but I grew up in Janesville. We walked to Lions Beach or hung out on the Ice Age Trails all day. I had an amazing childhood without a childrens museum. Your statement is purely relative.

As the Mom of 4 young children, I do not support a Children's Museum in Janesville. I go to Rockford or Madison for those trips. I have a membership to the Shedd in Chicago too. I just don't think that I would take my kids more than occasionally if a museum were here in town and we can't compete with the larger cities. I'm all for culture and bringing something to improve Janesville, I just don't think that this is the right thing. And yes, losing jobs here makes it seem like poor timing.

Didn't the city just shut down a "hands on" establishment on Jackson Street? Why do we want to spend $7 million on a new one?

Some of you are coming down on Amy L's idea of waiting 6 months as if it is bad. I think she is asking for this museum to be looked at after more understanding of what J-ville is going to look like with the aftermath of job losses here. I think that is smart--better able to make an informed decision.
Honestly, I find nothing wrong with a children's museum and am appalled at the lack of variety of family activities offered in a town this size. I am excited at the idea that we might be getting a museum as I go regularly to the ones in Rockford and Madison. I know others that feel the same way and would use this facility.

Early development can happen in the home, in the parks, etc. Why does it need a museum that the average taxpayer is asking not be built.

70,000,000 dollars for the schools. 5 million is like is like 7% of that. Why have great high schools with not early development learning facilities..?

Webster's definition of "Need" - "a lack of something requisite" and "a physiological or psychological requirement for the well-being of an organism"

Using that definition, a "Need" would be more like food, safety, shelter or health care.

A museum, although educational, is none of the above.

There are Janesville people destitute, malnourished and sleeping under bridges.

A nice pool, museum or bike trail does them little good.

mark707, YOU ROCK!!! And while we work on fixing those things you mentioned, put som of that $5M into maintaining the Tallman House which DOES draw people here!

spikesmom: Although I’m sure your heart is in the best interest of the city, I feel you are misguided on several facts. For example, GM isn’t the only company closing or reducing staff in the area. However, even if you use GM as your sole example, I believe it was the WSJ that reported that it estimated that roughly 5,000 people will be directly affected just by the GM closure alone. In a small city of roughly 60,000 that is an extremely large portion of the population. This is without including reductions and closing at other unrelated companies. Rock County ranked top ten in job losses in the country. Opening a children’s museum is not going to attract businesses. I would argue, as others have mentioned, that improving infrastructure, maintaining roads, good business developments, and most importantly – lower taxes-- will attract new businesses. In addition, as I stated in my earlier post, the museum is not going to fund itself. They predict roughly a $238,000 shortfall each year, which will have to be funded by the city, donors, or grants. That is of course if they can even raise enough money to build the museum in the first place. I think I can speak for most of those opposed to this project and others brought up by the council, that it isn’t that we don’t want these various things in Janesville. On the contrary, we’d all love them at the right time and under the right circumstances. Considering our economic uncertainties now is not the time and Janesville is not the place to be spending money on unneeded ventures. We need to be fiscally conservative until things settle out and Janesville can bring jobs to the area. Unfortunately, the city council seems more interested in stamping their names on various projects for recognition during their terms, then the current tough circumstances are city is facing. If the housing market stabilizes, unemployment decreases, and Janesville has a budget surplus, then projects like a children’s museum can be reexamined in the future.

spikes mom- go ahead and pay for it then. i cANNOT afford it!!! and more poeple living in janesville isnt going to make me able to afford it. we will raise you taxes up to mine and then YOU can afford it!

spikesmom - We can make Janesville "user friendly for other businesses to want to set up shop here" by properly maintaining streets and parks, plowing snow instead of letting ice build up for a month (like on my street), supporting schools, and improving infrastructure. Skateparks, bike paths, and childrens playplaces are nice to have, but not until we can afford to address the "real needs" of the community.

Spikesmom, YOU ROCK!

I am not commenting on the skate park. I was commenting on this statement by wtp:

"You talk about how Janesville should be on the cutting edge to bring people to Janesville, yet anytime the council tries to do something you scream. Wake up people you are not in the 19th century anymore. I for one is happy to see some of our council members has the for sight to fight for Janesville and not let people like you continue running them down."

I am all for a children's museum and anything else that that can make Janesville more cultured.The more we can do for this city, the more companies might want to make it home so we won't notice the negative impact GM leaving will leave behind, because there won't be one. We need to make it user friendly for other businesses to want to set up shop here and want to relocate their families here while giving our residents more opportunities to work. Let's look at the big picture, people.

i dont know where to put my comments anymore . seems to be more than 3 stories on this. funny the title to story says it all. THEY suppoet it but the PEOPLE DONT.I am sure all the rug rat brats running around my neighbor hood are NOT going to benefit from musuem since the loser parents dont even care where they are running around at and am sure theyre not going to "take then to no musum"

spikesmom:
I'm all for Janesville growing. The issue here is that we don't know the full force of the ramifications GM's leaving will have on this city. You obviously feel very confident, I do not share that confidence. If Flint and Kenosha are any indication on the potential ramifications, then it is obvious that we need to be conservative with our spending. Yours and wtp's comments are obviously fueled by the desire for a skatepark. That is a different blog, and there are valid arguments on both sides. While I understand that YOU feel confident in Janesville's economic future, I ask you to respect the feelings of those who question it.

wtp, you rock!! Yes, GM is closing and there are a FEW other businesses connected to GM that are laying off people as well. However, all 60,000+ people living in Janesville do not work for these businesses. Once upon a time half of the population was connected to that factory. That is not the case anymore. There are still companies that are staying here and there will be more coming. The people of Janesville are always for the city growing as long as it doesn't cost us anything. Whenever something opens, people from other communities come here and spend money. It takes money to make money and anything that promotes traffic to Janesville should always be a good thing. Quit using GM as an excuse to never spend money on anything. Everyone knew at some point it would cease to exist. Yes, Janesville will go on without it.

Fill my eyes with that double vision, no disguise for that double vision
Ooh, when it gets through to me, its always new to me
My double vision gets the best of me

I am just as disgusted. Maybe we need to know what sort of "visions" these members are having before the elections. Or if they hear voices in their heads. I'm one of the 13,000 commuters out of Rock county everyday and after living here 25 years a permanent change of scenery may be what I need.

Have any of you read the other article regarding this where Amy Loasching is quoted as saying:
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“We are the ones who know what our vision is,” she said. “We’ve been elected by the residents to … create a vision and see it through. … But I think we put it to a referendum, and it dies."
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I'm wondering...was the council elected to represent the wishes of the city, or to follow their "vision"? There is something deeply disturbing about the fact that the council feels that we shouldn't put something to a referendum because it may "die"!!! Is anyone else as disgusted as I am right now? I usually have nothing but the upmost respect for the council, but this is too much. I'm sure the city didn't elect the members to follow their "vision", but to represent the cities best wishes. Being elected to the council did not give you a blank check to fulfill your "vision". The council needs to step up and do their jobs. I understand that they feel that they are acting in the best interest of the community, but by blatently telling us that they know better than we do what is 1. best for OUR city, and 2. what we should and should not be able to afford is bogus. We need to start contacting them. E-mail the members at www.citycouncil@ci.janesville.wi.us

It sounds like the consultants have convinced them that this is what we need to help revitalize the downtown.
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I would like to see downtown revitalization, but a Children's Museum seems too much like part of the standard cookie cutter recommendation. I'd much prefer something more unique to Janesville that would draw more people here. There are plenty of Children's museums in the area. We would be much wiser to invest in something 1) UNIQUE, and 2)Suitable for all ages.

I'd like to know if a single member of our city council and of the steering commitee of this museum has ever been the primary bread winner of their family and then lost their job. Or has their spouse been the primary bread winner and they lost their job. I'd bet not.

The expensive school referendum last year, now a water treatment facility bill of over 32 million and a known money loosing museum. The threat of a new 50 million dollar jail is still over our heads as is a new fair grounds. Hope the county board hurries up and decides these 2 things. Enquiring minds want to know, when will it end???

I just E-MAILED the city council myself; Have they lost their minds?? The future of Janesville is sooo uncertain right now. I think every one of them need to be taken out for a 72 hr. evaluation. They are like a bunch of kids in a candy store,want want want,as long as someone else pays for it. WE DO NOT need to compete with the wants of everything that the BIG cities have. I would say their days ARE numbered for the jobs they have, WE just can't afford this kind of people in charge of OUR MONEY!

I emailed my opinions and have received responses from 3 members so far, thanks for posting the email address.

That is probably a very optimistic predicted budget.

I'm going to repost this blog I posted on another related story:

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This statement here points out exactly why we don’t need and can’t have a children’s museum.
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"According to the consultants' report, it would cost approximately $648,000 a year to run the museum with a full-time staff of seven. Annual attendance would be about 51,670 and revenues would come to $409,000 with an admission of $6 per person.
The additional $238,000 needed each year would have to come from grants, endowments, donations and a city contribution of $75,000 to $125,000."
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We are thinking about a museum that will be roughly $238,000 in the hole each year and --assuming-- that people will donate, city will supplement, or grants will cover this shortfall. I don’t think I’ve heard of a more moronic idea in my lifetime. We can’t get people to visit or aide the Tallman house, Rotary Gardens doesn’t get enough funding, and we are facing economic uncertainties. When enough donations come in to cover the seven million to build it and the museum has enough estimated attendance to fund itself, then maybe we should reconsider. However, I’m guessing that won’t happen, so it’s time to move on to something a bit less pie in the sky.

Thanks, bubbles.

Hey, what about that dyslexic headline?

lakennedy...I was serious about you running for city council. As I stated in my first post... We need more members who will listen to us. You sound like you know what you are talking about. Just an opinion, not an insult.

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it".
Some dozen years ago or so, the Janesville City Council approved a contentious project involving rebuilding the YMCA and closing off a busy city street in the process, one that led right to the hospital. One council member, Marion Noll, spoke out against this project and voted against it. She was lambasted by supporters of the project. In the subsequent election she was re-elected by a LANDSLIDE, one of the biggest margins of victory for a council member on record.
Folks, if the city council doesn't back off on this, we will see a divided community, animosity, and anger. Voters will remember, and if there are viable candidates running against current council members who push this, they will be voted out.

Maybe someday. Want to run with me? We could do a joint ticket. Spice things up a little!!!
lol

Yes I have been to a few council meetings and that is how I based my "opinion" of Amy Losching. I also do not agree that this should go through without a referendum. That we can agree on. But I do have a right to voice my opinion about the members as I see it. You see it as an insult. I see it as an opinion. By the way, why don't you run for city council??

bubbles,
Have you been to a council meeting? Have you ever spoken to Amy Loasching? She is an excellent council president. I don't agree with her on this issue, but she doesn't deserve to be insulted. I think it would be wiser for you to, instead of anonymously insulting a council member, to e-mail the council with your issues.

If you'd bother to read the posts, Clark Kent & WTP, you'd read that no where on this blog have I "attacked" the city council. I respect their work. I just asked that they put the issue to a referendum, which has resulted in both of you getting defensive and in WTP attacking anyone who doesn't agree with him.
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I understand your point, Clark Kent, that the city council was elected to make financial decisions for the city. I agree with that. I just find financial decisions that they've made since GM announced its closing to be fiscally irresponsible. I have every right to ask that the issue(s) be put to a referendum, and I would think that you should support the measure, as well. A referendum is the only way to show the council that they are or are not acting in accordance with the cities wishes. It is my belief that they are not. If you agree with that, (or even if you do not agree) please e-mail our council members at:
citycouncil@ci.janesville.wi.us

Amy Losching is on a power trip!! She jumps in to run everything. We need more council members like Tom McDonald who actually care what we think.

How about a committee to recommend the council hold down expenditures and cut taxes?

You know, Clark Kent always was kind of a wimp.

The city council is elected by the citizens of Janesville to lead our community and make decisions like these. They are not elected by us to defer decisions back to us via referendums. If that were the case, nothing would ever get done. I respect their decisions either way, as that is what they are elected to do, MAKE DECISIONS. I do believe in this project and I am happy that they are supporting it, but I would not be on here attacking them if they had not supported it.

You people amaze me. The skate park committee has been fighting and trying to raise money for the past 5 year so Janesville can have a skate park. Yet as soon as the city even talks about this park which by the way every city with any population at all has a skate park, even Edgerton is close to finishing there's. You people began to wine and make silly noises. You talk about how Janesville should be on the cutting edge to bring people to Janesville, yet anytime the council tries to do something you scream. Wake up people you are not in the 19th century anymore. I for one is happy to see some of our council members has the for sight to fight for Janesville and not let people like you continue running them down. I hope someday you will bring yourself up to the 21st century.

You just got hosed.

Clark Kent: I respect your viewpoint, but wonder if you would support the measure being put to a referendum? Isn't that the democratic thing to do?

I just e-mailed them to. I think it's important that they hear from both sides. Thank you SarahB

I think that must be the Clark Kent from the Bizarro World.

Okay, I just emailed them. Who's next after me?

This museum is a great idea and I am proud of our council members for supporting it. Thank you Janesville Museum Inc and our city council members for having the vision to bring this to Janesville.

I nearly fell out of my chair just now when I saw this story: WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR CITY COUNCIL?!!! This is fiscal irresponsibility. We have Janesville and area residents losing their jobs or in fear of the same. We have no idea when GM will shut down completely, along with all of the smaller plants that feed their products to GM. I'm with you, lakennedy, and will be sending an emails to council members this morning. This museum is an insane idea at this time.

WHO WANTS A REFERENDUM???? We could put the Tunnel, the Children's Museum, and the Skatepark on it...
E-MAIL YOUR COUNCIL MEMBERS:
citycouncil@ci.janesville.wi.us

Since the grant given last fall to study if this town wants, err, needs, a children's museum was funded largely by Alliant Energy, who managed to get 2 of its employees, Benjamin Bryant and Anne Lutz, on the steering comittee, lets see how much of the privately funded part of the millions needed comes from Alliant Energy. And Gazette, please, if Alliant does give a sum this winter, please don't tell us while we are paying our heating bills. Wait until the spring.

I am not sure that anyone who feels that a children's museum is a necessity is thinking very clearly. This is childish rationale. I want it, therefore I need it.

I agree with you, Teeber. Amy Loasching is a tremendous asset to the council. I just question her support on this project. She still has my support. If anyone has ever been to a council meeting to speak on whatever issue, I'm sure they've noticed that Amy is one of the very few council member who seems to be listening at all to the speaker. She has a level head and is fair minded. I appreciate her commitment to the city, just not to the Childrens Museum.

First of all, Amy is doing a tremendous job sticking up for us city folks and taxpayers. She really is. The reason she is acting as liason is because some at city hall don't want to follow through and help in the riverside buetification. Its the "good old boys" like Steeber who don't care. Amy knows what this city needs and doesn't need. When the elections come up, Please, Make your vote count. Amy needs to stay, And The "good old boys" have got to go. That is my views. I know Amy means well.

Not if citizens continuously write letters to the editor reminding the city of these ridiculous votes. I plan on organizing a letter campaign in the weeks leading up to the election to remind the city of these votes. I'll be looking for people to help write, as there can only be one letter published per person in a month.

When are the next elections?

Far enough in the future and not near when your tax bill comes. This helps those up for re-election get re-elected.

Alright,
Elections are held in April for the city council. In April of 2009, Loasching, Truman, Steeber, and Brunner are all up for re-election. If they choose to run, that is.

I haven't seen ONE comment in support of this museum. I sent an e-mail to the entire council this morning, asking them to please hold a referendum addressing the Bike Tunnel, the Children's Museum, and the Skateboard Park. I'm waiting on responses. I urge you all to do the same thing. It will take five minutes of your day, and could save you a ton of money.
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tjincj: I'm looking right now to see who is up for re-election next, and when. I'll get back to you soon. Are you interested in the job????

When are the next elections?

Janesville has enough for the "the kids" to do. Stop with the insanity already.

Loasching always says "it seems to be bad timing to be looking at this right now" but how does she vote. Did she vote for or against spending tax payer money? Is she still holding that appointed UAW job in Illinois? Now she just got another job as Park Liaison so she can fast track beautification projects for the special interest group Friends of Riverside Park. I do think the park needs help but why do we need a special position for Amy?

The City Council must all be descendants of the Bush family.. They come in and spend spend spend. Then when their term is over, ahh let someone else worry budget problems

It appears the Janesville City Council is not fiscally responsible. The wasteful spending issues are coming up so frequently, we should change the necessary law to put EVERYTHING above $500,000.00 on referendums automatically. "If it's Wednesday, it's Referendum Voting Day in Janesville."
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Children's Museum
Bike Trail Tunnel
Skateboard Park
GM Retention Consultant
Aquatics Facility
Business Improvement District
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They've been contemplating this stuff while letting Riverside Park rot and cutting funding for the Tallman House.

Could we please have a more detailed story on why the council feels "Janesville needs a children's museum."

I'd like to know what each and every council person said as to why they feel justified in saying that.

The museum is one of the last things this town "Needs". Its one of the first things a select few "Want".

Councilman Tom McDonald is right when he says it "...will be a tough pill for the taxpayers to swallow."
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I'm not sure what troubles me more: the fact that the majority of the council agrees that "Janesville NEEDS a children's museum" or that they won't even consider a referendum.
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I understand that referendums are expensive, but why not hold one that addresses the childrens museum, the tunnel, and the skateboard park?
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What do you other bloggers think? Should there be a referendum addressing all three issues, or not?