good post ltlegrycat
This is the classic mentality of "I don't care as long as it doesn't effect me".
What I find so funny about this tax, is that it was a huge democratic idea (proposed by Doyle, and approved by all the Democratic legislators). The party who claims to be for the poor, and working class. Well, who does this tax hurt the most? A guy making $200,000 is not effected one bit by taxing his smokes an extra couple bucks a pack, but what about the guy making $20,000 (and a much larger % of smokers are in this class)? And don't give me this nonsense that will be incentive to make him/her quit smoking. All it will lead to is more social problems in the form of crime and poverty, and create a breeding ground of organized crime that your all ready seeing now.

Our government singles out minorities to overtax, in the name of public health. They taxed my nieghbor and I said nothing. They taxed my friends and I said nothing. But when they taxed me I screamed injustice! But there was no one left to care. Sieg Hiel!!!!! Socialism without the benifits. Lets keep everyone fractionalized so we can see the collapse of society!!!! Open your eyes and look at the big picture. Or are you too brainwashed to see it?

When I lived in S Beloit last year, I can tell you that the word on the street was how you could make money running cigaretts across the boarder. IL state tax is pretty high on cigaretts, but no where close to this maddness. The smokers I know around here, look at this as a big running joke. No one actually pays the tax. Didn't our founding fathers have a tea party over over taxation?

All this whining and crying about Wisconsins taxes will do a lot of good, as long as you troop to the polls and vote in more liberal Democrats, because your unions tell you that is the way to vote,,, Vote out all incumbents!!

I never said cigarettes are not bad, I am all for them making tobacco illegal. Not that they ever would.

The problem is that most studies stop once they find tobacco smoke exposure. Yes the people that choose to use the products are 100% likely to have gotten cancer from it.

But alcohol causes cancer too. Car exhaust while your driving is sucked through your ventilation system. But that report is about toxins found inside the vehicle from the multitude of plastics and fibers.

No way of proving either way that all those 2nd hand smoke related illnesses and deaths are caused by the other factors in our current daily life. Sicne a person literally has to say well I spent a couple hours at a bar a week for them to lable it as smoke related. Even though alcohol causes cancer too, and being in your car, even being in a new home causes it as well. Since there ae common manufacturing procedures to make a lot of the things in vehicles and homes.

There is even a study that shows only 20% of the population is genetically predisposed to having a smoking addiction and an 80% more likely to get cancer if they do smoke. While the rest who are smokers without the gene have roughly the same chance of getting cancer as everyone else.

There is no denying the benefit of having a smoke free society. The issue is the government involvement in it. Then they want to continue to have their taxes as its blatantly pointed out while sequestering the smokers away from every other smoker in a public social setting.

One of the things I deny is the abuse of taxation, since there is literally no proof this cigarette tax money is being used in full to pay for anything related to helping the smokers they are taxing. The attempted removal of rights and liberties of law abiding citizens, in the form of the smoking ban bill. Overall I think I am disgusted with the chicanery of the politicians sucking up the money while condeming smoking based ont he merit of public health. While the true cause could easily be eliminated by making it illegal.

haight- youre correct we dont pay for out of state online purchases. BUT in you tax form at the end of year is where youre suposed to pay it. I would have to say many dont

97.4% of statistics are wrong including this one.
Being alive you have a 100% chance of dying. Children are the 100% sexually transmitted.
No show me your papers citizen!

again, while perfume and cologne may affect a small percentage of the population allergically, cigarettes are bad for everyone, sure a woman with too much perfume is annoying as hell, but unless your in the small percentage thats allergic its no more than an inconvenience. smoking has been proven by years of concrete research that it kills people, ephysema, lung cancer all leading causes of death in the US, directy linked to cigarettes. My point is cigarettes are a choice that is not required to live and greatly harms you, yes there are alot of bad things in this world, Mcdonalds every day will kill you too but thats a necessary choice, meaning you need food to live, where you chose to eat is your bad choice but it doesnt affect the person sitting across the bar when you chain eat. And to the person who says its more carcinogenic driving your car to work than smoking, you need to check your facts a little better, unless your piping your exhaust into the back seat of your car, the last time i looked driving to work wasnt the leading cause of preventable cancer in the US today.

"The state said it got the names from Internet cigarette vendors after notifying 75 of them that a federal law makes it their responsibility to ensure Wisconsin gets the tax money." If it's the vendors' responsibility to hand over the tax money, why are they going after the customers?

This state is hooked on taxing the people that live here. It is like a drug addiction. The state needs to get their fix. The next people they will try to go after when our state officials "come down from their high" is the people that buy from an Indian Reservation. I know one person that goes there to buy cigarette up in baraboo. I hope the next election is going to bring some change to our state.

miltonalum... its far more likely your exposed to toxins from every other aspect of life than the short time your exposed to cigarette smoke. Meaning everyday life has a larger impact on health unless yoru a smoker or choose to be around a smoker 24/7.

THe toxins and polution are there adn if you choose to believe that your 1hour or 6 hours in a bar every week. Compared to everything else your exposed to then so be it. avg commute is say 30 minutes a day 5 days a week that is 2.5h of breathing car exhaust and the toxins inside the car.

Even alcohol causes cancer, so it isn;t just the smoke in the bar either.

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/canc...

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/healthy...

Most of the people i know that smoke are quiting for one reason or another. ? where are they going to tax us next. If they don't get the revenu from the smokers what class of people are next. Can we say unfair taxing. Taxing a minority to pay for a majority. You can be sure that the cig taxes pay for alot more than just cigarette caused medical issues.

NOW you all are seeing it!
See, Robson and company, could care less about "public health". If they really did, they would be calling for an out right ban of cigarettes. If a substance is such a hazard to public health, clearly the answer is to BAN IT. Throughout history this has happened many times. Look at asbestos, DDT, freon, ext. All banned in the name of public safety. Cigarettes have nothing to do with public safety, it's just a way for an over taxing state government to collect even MORE $$$$$, and hurt the lower working class (there is a much higher %age of smokers in lower income then higher incomes). This article just proves that it's all about the taxes.
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Then Robson, and all your WI big government do gooders can fund their endless social programs, expanded government further and further into your life, all the while more and more businesses can run far far away from the state, and go to states that are much more business/tax friendly.
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This whole cigarette tax will bomb miserably. There is all ready a huge underground of cigarettes coming in which avoid the tax. Forget other states, try other countries. Once the cigarette revenue is cut in half, LOOK OUT, because then Robson, and company, will come after something else to make up the shortfall. The liberal montra NEVER is to CUT SPENDING.

CIGARETTE POLICE


I think every community with 20.000 or less people should hire 2 preferably 3 cigarette police.

IF YOU HAVE A CITY OF LETS SAY THE SIZE OF MADISON THE CITY FATHERS COULD HIRE A WHOLE DAMN GOON SQUAD

The city could charge 250.00 275.00 a wack
for fines NOW THAT WOULD PAY FOR A LOT OF DOUGHNUTS

SECOND OFFENCE DRIVERS LICENSE REVOKED AND OR COMMUNITY SERVICE OF AT LEAST 30 HOURS

driving a car IS a choice! getting behind the wheel of a car drunk IS a choice. fast food vs healthy food is BAD! potatoes and many other foods are BAD! obese is BAD! so you see miltonalum. there is sooooo much bad in this world. maybe be a little more concerned about terrorism etc. than to be concerned about someone elses choices. perfume, cologne, and other scented products make my throat sore and swell up, but you don't hear me out preaching against peoples choice to use these products. thanks for your input on the subject,and your concern.

is being in a car the leading cause of cancer related death in the US today? Has anyone ever had a documented case of contracting cancer from being in a car solely from the toxins released in the car and not second hand smoke or something created by an outside source? no i dont think you can put them in the same class, not even close.

Hey wisconsin your missing out here again. I guess you better go after everyone who makes out of state(internet) purchases and advoids paying tax. I'm sure You'll find the records for that too. Not just cigarettes. Fair is fair. Why single out one group and discriminate. How much money is waiting their?? Food for thought.........

Well actually u can put driving/ being in a vehicle in the same class as smoking a cigarette. They have done a multitude of studies and it was brought up in the link gazettefan made. One study found 241 toxins contained in the air inside vehicles.

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/asth...

http://healthycar.org/chemicals.introduc...

Mytake4u.... last time i checked food was something that was required to survive, sure bad eating can cause heart problems, but not eating also causes death. As far as i know not smoking only makes you healthier. Cars, hmm last i checked driving your child to school and yourself to work didnt cause cancer and a slow death, ok, yes cars cause accidents that cause deaths, however, last i checked smoking was a CHOICE that causes cancer and a slow death not an accident. Booze, sure tax it, it already is taxed, but dont put eating food and driving cars on the same field as voluntarily inhaling 200 carcinogens and subjecting those around you to them as well, last i checked you eating 4 double cheesburgers a day didnt cause the guy next to you to have a heart attack.

WELL are they also gonna tax my wine I get over the internet and my clothes I buy. My e-bay items and every other item I also purchase
over the internet. What is good for one is good
for the othere .My they are going to busy are they not...........The goverment in wi needs to clean up there own back yard before they come to mine....

Hypocritical. That's what government programs trying to oulaw tobacco are. If it is as bad as they claim then why don't they just outlaw it - ban it outright? They don't because it brings in so much revenue to the goevernment coffers in taxation they can't do without it.
All this does is nibble around the edges.
Hypocrites, all of them.

gazette fan's link is to a judy robson's "smoking hurts everyone" editorial.

Senator Robson is incorrect. Smoking doesn't hurt the tobacco companies.

while our government tries enact legislation to ban smoking, it at the same time supports the tobacco industry with price set-asides and crop insurance programs -- to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

instead of trying to outlaw use, as Senator Robson suggests, why doesn't our government get out of the tobacco subsidy business altogether?

if demand for tobacco decreases, and a farmer is then not guaranteed income from our government, he/she will grow something else.

rather than risk hacking off the tobacco industry (and all of their donations) our legislators instead choose to pose for holy pictures in the form of "no-smoking mandates."

If you buy online , just make sure the seller does not report sales to anyone, some sellers insist ot the transaction taking place thru the mail and not over the internet so its treated like a customer walked into his business and they maintain no records of these transactions, so there is no database of sales for the state to request.

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/feb...

It does not matter if you buy from a tribal source. My sister just got nailed for $176.00 for last year and she bought from a native Amaerican Tribe. My mother got nailed before that for $134.00. They were both from out of state sources. I am glad I quit 15 years ago, COLD TURKEY. I guess if you want to play (smoke), you pay.

Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree! -- Sen. Russell B. Long

Lets see if everyone rembbers right there was a article that apeared in the paper.About or State Reps takeing trips all over the place an abroad at tax payer expense amount 900,000.May be they should pay for there own trips.In stad of imposeing a state sales tax.Specialy sense Madison cant evan handle 911 call properly.An are trying to lie there way out of it when they hung up on my cousin the day she was murdered.Oh an her killer still hasnt been cought yet either.Great Reps we have.

here's how the state discovered the online cigarette purchasers:
according to jsonline (may 9 report), "State officials got the names from Internet cigarette vendors after notifying 75 of those companies that a federal law makes it their responsibility to ensure that taxes owed Wisconsin get paid."

So wait, when the federal government petitioned phone companies for records of suspected terrorists, they were shamed, scolded and said to be infringing on our rights.

If it is wrong for the federal government to petition a private company for information with potential national security implications, why is it OK for the state to petition private businesses for the collection of usurious taxes?

on a side note, you can buy cheaper cigarettes from tribal locations. native americans selling state stamped cigarettes get 70% of taxes paid back.

three things:
1. knowing they get 70% back, they can lower the price to you (funny how that works).
2. what would happen if i purchased cigarettes online from a tribal location (God help us!).
3. The state of Wisconsin clearly feels that the massive increase in the tobacco tax will lead to less smokers. if they return 70% of tax revenues back to native americans, do they prefer native americans to die miserable smoking related deaths?

I would like to know why the state law enforcemnt is watching the pennies when they do not enforce the speed limits. They could use photo radar on the interstate racking up $375+ ticket like shooting fish in a barrel.

On a local note why has Janesville not used photo radar as a source of income. It is very easy for processing, and the justice system loves it. This system is used in CA, and DC with great outcomes. It is a small investment.

wow miltonalum...lets tax that food you eat. matter-of-fact, lets quit selling you favorite food. it causes heart attacks! lets quit selling cars, they cause fatal accidents. not to mention booze! we could save many families grief, save lives and lower insurance costs if we just quit selling booze. find yourself another cause miltonalum because your beating a dead horse here.

THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO CONFORM TO THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, THE CITIZENRY SHOULD NOT CONFORM TO THE WILL OF A GOVERNMENT THAT IS CLEARLY OUT OF CONTROL!

Taxing cigarettes excessively is fundamentally wrong. Smoking is an addiction. Excess drinking is an addiction, taxing people for their addictions is wrong. Why don't we start increasing the taxes for those who seek treatment for all addictions. Lets increase the tax on coffee. How about a tax increase for magazines that depict sexual images if the person is a repeat buyer of these publications. As long as we are taxing addictions, I don't see any problem with taxing disabilities too. Lets increase the tax on insulin. How about a tax increase for those who have skin cancer from exposing themselves to the sun. I think we just need more of and a wider variety of tax increases. We need to fund all the special interest groups and earmarks our wonderful government representatives can imagine. The lottery has worked beautifully, you have realized a significant credit on your property taxes haven't you?

WOW, now THATS a big penalty for tax evasion!!

I'd say ALL tax evaders would love to be subject to only that penalty.

Lets try a state government employee tax. Every time you go in or out , its a dime. With all the coming and going at the capital, we should raise quite a bit of revenue. Of course, this is if they actually show up to work or whatever they do. Maybe this will keep them in there longer and get more done. Of course its still our dime they squander (spend) when they do act.

Funding children's public health care from tobacco sales is wrong.

People just want to shop and buy where things are cheaper. This is no different than people wanting to purchase their prescription medicine from Canada. Wisconsin needs to figure that out. Taxing cigarettes that much doesn't work. People will either quit smoking or get them where they can get them cheaper. Neither way brings in more income.

HAHAH..
This is exactly what I detailed out in the 1000 page smoking thread. WI loves to tell you that you can't smoke, but they also love the millions it brings in to the coffers. Once they find out how big of a shortfall they have from this cigarette tax, who do you think is left to pick up the tab???
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What clueless, moronic fools they have up there in Madison. The wave of black market cigarette dealers is here. Cigarettes are flooding in over the boarder, avoiding this insane tax, and making organized crime rich. Every smoker I know, sure as heck is not paying any tax on them. These on-line dealers which the article says:
“We’ve gotten some very good two-way dialogue going with them, and we don’t want to have them pull back and not give us those names,”
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Yeah, I'm sure these guy in North Carolina will fully cooperate with some out of state government bureaucrat who is going to take away huge business/profit from them, just out of the goodness of there heart.
While that's just addressing on-line dealers in the US. Imagine some piss ant WI government official calling over to China to speak to Xiu Ming Wang; demanding the names of the people in some state he's never heard of? His response, laughingly, would be something to the effect of:
动 去;前往;在..的状态;运行;通用;耗费
向;到;给;对于.[目的]为.[结果]
名 地狱;魔鬼;贬入地狱的人群;冥府
.
Be prepared for ANOTHER tax, courtesy of your tax happy WI government, to bail out this failed cigarette tax debacle. Perhaps after the next wave of taxes we can then top the list of the highest taxed states in the country, and not just be in the top 5.

Interesting links there, Kind of funny how many people buy cigarretes in wisconsin or illinois and live in the other place... looks like there is a lot of use tax violations there.

Haeight, you do owe use tax, but "compliance is voluntary", mainly because enforcement is difficult and expensive. Cigarettes are different as tobacco is federally regulated and U.S. law now supports the requirement that retailers hand over that information to states that request it.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx...
Here are the Use Tax rules:
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/faqs/ise/useta...

Uh? Are the politicians really this ignorant?

Last I checked we don't even pay sales tax in wisconsin for online purchases. How they going to say we have to pay other taxes if they aren't even taking their sales tax?

lets just stop selling cigarettes altogethor? sure its a ton of tax revenue but what exactly is the price tag on a human life?

If people really want to get around this they will. If you have a friend or relative that lives in a different state, just order them and have them shipped their. Then have them ship them here. I quit smoking about a year ago, but if I still smoked that is what I would do!

The Peoples Republic of Wisconsin

Gosh - this just makes me want to go online and get a few cases. I'll be able to smoke out back my entire shift while enjoying a Frostie Top. ;)

yea! Like cancer!

whatever!! we have bigger problems to worry about!!