hockey1 said:
"Perhaps if the city was more progressive, and we had more to offer in terms of business, entertainment and quality of life, more residents would move here and share the tax burden. I personally don't think not doing anything for the community is going to get us anywhere. You have to spend money to make money. If we leave our commnunity as it is, youre right, you won't be able to sell your house, because nobody will want to move here. Most people are willing to pay higher taxes to live in a nicer community...."

The role of a city is not to "make money". The City of Janesville is not a here to entertain you or me. They have all they can do to plow the streets and supply water with enough pressure to fight a fire while the neighbor takes a shower. Hockey1, your opinion is heavily biased. Plus, we would not have enough money for tunnels, childrens museums, and parking ramps if we built a new arena. :D

If not for Obama there would be no GM building small or big vehicles. Just parts of it to be sold off. Would a Left Hand Man have had better results for small car production? Like the Ice Arena issue of new verus renovation GM's decision is about money, not some Right Handed Guy in Washington. Janesville, the State and the UAW's very generous $400 plus million against Michigans crazy 1 Billion. Even a Left Handed Man can do that math. Thank God a Left Handed Man won the election not a Right Handed one who would have let Janesvilles GM plant and the rest go belly up. No, it was money not what Right or Left Handed men the President favors for his advisors.

From the looks of Tyler St when there's games going on, it doesn't appear our ice arena is in that bad of shape. I was out pulling weeds when the last game was going on and people (from a bus and motorhome) were saying how nice it was. Why fix (or move) something that is fine the way it is. Janesville is already struggling. Let's not add this to it. Not to mention if taxpayers are going to fund something, how about it be more budget friendly for a family. There's no way we can afford to take our family of 5 to a hockey game, and I'm sure we're not the only one's. Right now is just not the time to do this. We should wait a few years and see how Janesville is doing then.

I wish the city council would put it to a vote, then make sure we have the option to say no on the vote too. They would see that the majority do not want this at all. We don't have the money and it is just getting worse,(except maybe for the council members, maybe they have lots extra!) Get it through your heads council we are all struggling to make ends meet and your spend, spend, spend policy is making us mad. Use our money for things we need already, not for the things we don't have to have!

I like the GM idea, what else are you going to do with it?

Let me run the joint and operations and I would have it like the Packers, public ownership. So the team won't go anywhere! That way we have the say on what goes on. Just yet again, MY OPINION!

GM, GM, GM, GM blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine. Get over it, its not coming back, the republican party combined with greedy workers and an old facility KILLED that situation...but as for a new rink, WHY NOT? SPEND SPEND SPEND! Its the new trend. You gotta spend money to make money. Its not like they are trying to open up a 1.5 million dollar homeless shelter. Think of the charities the Jets/Arena would help build up. It would create jobs...you could have a minor league basketball team there, CONCERTS! Indoor anything pretty much, b-day parties, anniversary parties. This city will only DIE if YOU let it! BUILD! BUILD! BUILD! The arena will create entertainment in the area (something this city lacks). Use the old site as a indoor skate park/arcade/roller rink facility...or get this...homeless shelter! But hey, these are just my opinions! OPINIONS!

How about option 3: spend no money now, at least until the economic turns around. Nice way to load the dice.

I say .. build on the GM site.. here are some reasons...
1) Gm is not coming back
2) there is enough parking.
3) the Environmental impact would be minimal (the DNR is clamping down on what type of paint is to be used when painting the ice
4) Centrally located
5) they don't have to serve Alcohol ( there is bar in the parking lot- in walking distance or the facility
6) there would be room for expansion
and
last
7) there is a water source to make ice (granted it would have to be filtered but ample enough to supply the Facility for years to come..

People look at the bigger picture.. you have a space that needs to be used, you have Idiots on the COJ council, that have no sense on what they are doing.. and an organization that will have backing..
it is a no Brainer... (this was entirely sarcasm)

The Ice Arena was built in 1978 and needs much improvement! Several families use the Rink. To put 1.5 Million into A rink that old makes no sense. Build a new rink! The Jets will not be flying out of town any time soon either.

I vote spend the money on some project that will help this city . In a few years the Jets will fly away to bigger and better things , Just like every job in this town.

Only if the homeless people can sleep there.

NEITHER! Who's going to use it when sooner or later, everyone is going to be taxed out of their homes. Put the money to something that we need!

another option in this "poll" should have been:

Should the city simply not have an ice arena at all.

Perhaps if the city was more progressive, and we had more to offer in terms of business, entertainment and quality of life, more residents would move here and share the tax burden. I personally don't think not doing anything for the community is going to get us anywhere. You have to spend money to make money. If we leave our commnunity as it is, youre right, you won't be able to sell your house, because nobody will want to move here. Most people are willing to pay higher taxes to live in a nicer community....

Neither!
Poorly worded leading question.
Hannah, one of the best comments you have ever left:

"I love your term "only $12.76 per $125 ish assesed value

only _ $ for this
only _ $for that
only _$ for this too
only _ $for that as well
DO you own a calcualtor????? It all add up to

only A LOT!!"

Neither.. I don't like the options in poll. City should stop spending money period & downsize.

They should turn the Ice Arena into the new headquarters of the Common Council, after they decide to build a brand spanking new rink (because you just know they will) and raffle off tickets for admission to the spectacles that ARE Common Council meetings.
Janesville just keep getting closer to Hooterville by the day. It's royally depressing.

Try to sell your house now and see what happens.

Don't worry. When the property taxes get so high, you won't even be able to sell your home to get out of this tax hell. Something to look forward to.

I want a new rink to skate. Period.

If Miller Beer wouldn't put any money in the arena, why are we advertising for them? Is there an unknown amount coming from Miller and going into someones pocket?

Tiredofheaingit, I agree there should have been another option. Disagree with selling to them on land contract, I don't want it back.

Neither - close up the money pit, use it for storage.

It's too late. The renovations are already made and the contractors are already gone. Not sure what they were doing but the whole west wall of the building was torn apart and Contractors were busy for about 3 weeks.

BTW-Why are tax dollars being used to restore a Private entity? After 5 years the building will be deeded to the COJ, but why are they getting our tax dollars in the 1st place, particularly when we have infrastructure needs and school budgeting personnel problems?

Also, a demographic study question; What percentage of the COJ uses the Ice Arena? (This would be a basic research question done before starting such a project.)

NEITHER!!!

I find it interesting when council emailed me back and said the life of the old ice arena is only 25 years. YOu also say it has been neglected.So are you like walmart wins flush-able money and let building go into disrepair so you can just build new ones? SORRY the city of janesville isnt as rich as walmart to do this. SO when you spend 2.5 plus there 2 mil on a new one are you going to ignore fixing and maintaining this one as well and expect ANOTHER new one in 20 years cause you didnt maintain it from the beginning????

the same thing happened to the tallman house if you fixed things WHEN they needed to be the problems wouldnt have escalated to MAJOR repairs and cost more now than if you fixed it then.

wesgonsin"If someones private home/structures needed over $1,000,000 dollars in repairs, the city would slap a condemned sticker on them so fast it would make their heads spin."
good point BUT that would only make them build a new one for sure- guess the next to article in the paper will be- ICE ARENA closed found UNSAFE MUST build a new one.

What isn't politically motivated anymore?

Have you forgotten that the son of the new Janesville City Manager is is a hockey player and the promise of a local hockey venue was a consideration for Dad taking the job.

I am sorry, but, if they wont support a new Fire Station which would obviously help more people than a new arena, they should just renovate. Just use some common sense. I for one don't feel good about a Fire Sation closing near me.

The old building needs $1.3 million to $1.5 million to upgrade the ice-making system, fix the ice surface and put on a new roof, Levitt said. That money would not address other problems at the site, including a too-small parking lot and not enough seating,...
****
Why should tax payers give the land and $2 million when as listed above we could meet OUR needs for $1.5 million. Why not propose the land - less its value - & cash to equal the $1.5 million. The reason there's not enough parking & seating is not because of the current needs but rather what the wants/needs of the private team.

The people that are voting to spend (waste) the money on renovating the current ice arena are the same people that will be up in arms in a few years when the program needs two sheets of ice and more parking. When they need to build a second rink......
***
And why will they need a 2nd sheet of ice - from the HS hockey program or the public skating? No, but rather because a PRIVATE team needs more ice time. Thats the point. What we have now meets the PUBLIC needs - grant it, there are repairs that could be done or arguably need to be done either way - why expand for their needs, not the general publics.

The people that are voting to spend (waste) the money on renovating the current ice arena are the same people that will be up in arms in a few years when the program needs two sheets of ice and more parking. When they need to build a second rink they will be saying "why did our city government waste money". Typical.

I agree with Woody and wesgonsin, 100%

If someones private home/stuctures needed over $1,000,000 dollars in repairs, the city would slap a condemned sticker on them so fast it would make their heads spin.

Why would all this work be done to the current facility reciently then vote on a new facility or make further improvements to the current facility?Could this have not been an all or nothing vote for the current facility?If you vote on a new facility now its kinda like throwing all that money away on the recient improvements.

I agree with Woody.

First off I do not play hockey nor does anyone in my household. I do not have extra money for my taxes to go up. I do not want to pay for either of these options. Saying all that I am for the new ice rink only because in two years they will say this rink is not working there isn't enough parking, the locker rooms are to small, ect,ect. Then we will have to build a new rink. Save the money on the old rink. They can always sell it to a private ownership.

I can already see a battle brewing between the hockey families and those wanting to repair/upgrade the Tallman House. I know which one I would pick but am remaining mum for now to hold off attacks from folks loyal to the other side.

hockeymomsrule- BECASUE WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY.
If your car is broke and cost $500 to fix it. you can fix it or buy a new one. The new one cost $400 a month that you DONT have. What do you do? YOu fix the old one. Does it make sence to buy a new one cause it will be under warranty and no fixing for long time- absolutely BUT you cannot afford the $400 a month. you CANNOT even afford the $500 now but you scrape it up or you wont have transportation.

I still dont understand the 1.5 mil dollar amount- are you going to roof it with gold?

I vote NEITHER. Get rid of the money pit.

hockeymomsrule, do you build a new house when your roof leaks? Do you build a new house when your refrigerator goes out? I doubt you do, because that would not make financial sense would it? The things you mention that are bad with the current ice arena are repairable and more affordable. I don't have much experience with other local ice arenas, but it sounds to me like even without renovating, we are not the worst facility.

I know I will not be the popular opinion on this thing, but...I will say it anyway. Absolutely, people will come to Janesville if we don't build a new rink. I really don't think that is the point of this disccusion, the point is to build a new rink or not?? Here is my question, why would you dump alot of money into an old rink? It makes no sense. This isn't some historical building that we would like to renovate that was built in the 1800's. It is a 30 year old building that has been signifiantly neglected. Absolutely, you can put money into it to update it, but is that a smart idea? Building a new building is what makes sense. Would we have just shut down the ball diamonds and said, "oh, well we don't need them anymore?" No more youth baseball, sorry kids. Seriously, that would never happen. As I hope that would never happen with the ice rink. That building is in serious shape, it looks great after the renovation, but that was cosmetics....the roof leaks so bad that the hockey club had to put their equipment up all off of the floor, the freon/cooling system has been band-aided for now, but who know when it will go down next, the water leaks in on the front side of the building so bad that the equipment often is froze to the floor during the winter, when the concession stand was removed from its old location it was discovered that ants had drilled right through the bricks into the building. I am sure that is not the end of the needs, just the things I am aware of. It will cost you more to build the rink later. Why dump good money in to update the rink?? Makes no sense, neither does just throwing the rink away altogher. Yes, JYHC is hoping to partner with the city. It is a good proactive move. I get it people are without jobs, we have had unemployment in our home for months. We haven't quit doing things we enjoy because of it. In fact, enoying a sport we love with our kids who also love it has kept us sane and positive in a very bad economic time.

Commonsense123: I know you didn't intend it to be taken this way, but your argument gives the impression that the hockey fans will come regardless of whether the city builds a new rink.

There should be a place to vote for neither.

Also, the ice arena does bring money into the city. The Jets are the newest, but youth hockey hosts tournaments and camps. The high school games bring people. Ask the people who work at the Stop N Go on Racine if they see more people when there is a hockey game. I am sure other businesses have people that are here for a game spending money. Many places won't even realize that person walking in the door is not from Janesville or why they are here, but that does not change the fact. The Jets had over 100 try out for the team. They came from all over. Those people were here for several days spending money. Making the arena and Janesville a great place will keep people coming and talking.

I don't play softball. I don't know anyone that does. The fields at Dawson are only used a few months and costs taxpayers money so let's do away with those. I am not a senior citizen so I don't use the center so let's get rid of it. Let people who want wading pools to go buy their own and get rid of the things the city has to maintain. Everything costs. None of the extra things this city pays for are used by a majority of citizens. But all are part of the big picture of Janesville. If you only want trash pickup, snow plowed, streets maintained, fire and police protection and a few other "necessities" the city should provide, tell the city council members. I like having choices.

hannah..."BTW- who pays for the street lights?"
I was just about to contact the city about the same thing on W. Milwaukee St. If they are not going to maintain them, then take them down. It would look better.

tired....I'm with you, get rid of it. It's one of those things that is best left to the private sector.

I wonder how the ice in Beloit looks right now?

Just another reason to put the house up for sell and get out of this town. We moved here because Whitewater was bad.

Ask any hockey player about that rink with canvas walls (in Beloit for those who may not know). Best ice to skate on. Hard and fast.

Forget about the ice arena. Use the money for more important items.....like the Juvenile Detention Center for one. Don't know who's doing the thinking but someone needs to get their priorities straight.

I want a 3rd choice in this poll - donate the facility to the private group that thinks this will be such a money maker for them.(better yet sell it on a land contract to them so when/if it fails we get it back)

How about this: the private group thinks it will be a money maker - let them put the plan together & apply for TIFF money. This costs us taxpayers nothing (land is already owned & paid for). Local Baseball did it, Local football did it & the Y does it with soccer.

Hannah,You go girl.This council acts as if we are flush with cash.Too bad council doesnt get out from behind their desks and walk in the real (unemployed) world."well its only a few more tax dollars a year?"Does council not realize a few dollars here,there,only keep adding up and citizens just cannot afford (each) additional tax increase??Why must council only concentrate on spend,spend,spend???

hannah, did you see how many streep lights are out in town? And obstructed street signs? This was posted a month ago on the city website
http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/councilma...

How much has been fixed? The speed limit sign on Afton Road I know is completely obstucted. People are going 55 in a 35 zone.

i would like a new car, but i can't afford it
so i'm not getting one. I need new tires, but i can't afford it so they will have to wait. i switched cable companies, because times are hard. maybee the city of janesville should learn that if you don't have the money right now you should make do with what you have, unless it is an absolute emergency. this is not an emergency.

Since I am not on the city council, I have no idea how many people they hear from. Hannah and others on Gazette extra say they don't listen to the people. How do they know they aren't listening? Maybe they are we just don't know how many are speaking directly to them in letters, emails or phone calls. The ice arena is like any other venue in Janesville. Some use it, some don't. I don't know of any recreational place is used by even 50% of the population. Not all are seniors. Not all play softball. Not all skate. Not all bike or walk the trails. These things are amenities. They make Janesville a nice place that has choices. If you don't want any extras, start talking that up. Good luck. You are always going to be taxed and unless you run for council will have little say about how much or how they are spent. I for one would like a new ice arena. Since my kids were in high school I have gotten into the Bluebirds. I have also watched the younger kids play and they have great fun and it is cheap to watch.

It would be a $100.00 well spent.

You did it for them.

I am sure the hannah bashers will be here soon to rip on my grammar, spelling and say I am stupid and dont know what I am talking about.

You go Hannah! But no one ever lissens to us. When people start moving out of Janesville because they can't get a job or afford to live here anymore, then the city will start to realize that they should stop wasteful spending. They put wants before needs! Then when it comes to things that we NEED, we don't have the money.

You say 1.5 million to renovate it. What do you do not long ago to fix it up. What else does it need. I heard a lady call in to Stan MIlam and she said ours is "GREAT" compared to places her son has payed with CANVAS for walls and NO locker room. Maybe you should be happy with what you have instead of wanting more. Didnt your parents ever tell you that?

BTW- who pays for the street lights? I come home on milton ave and less than half are working. Maybe you should fix these before you spend money we dont have on a fancy new ice rink.

It is ONLY A LOT less money I can afford to spend on food and bills and mortgage. YES I am sure the Lawyer on the city council can afford it and still afford all his other stuff and STILL afford all the extras. I thought having some regular folks like Truman was supposed to help with this budgeting stuff. LIARS!! all of you.

I love your term "only $12.76 per $125 ish assesed value

only _ $ for this
only _ $for that
only _$ for this too
only _ $for that as well
DO you own a calcualtor????? It all add up to

only A LOT!!

But guess who will decide- 8 people who WONT listen to what the city people have to say. You are already raising our taxes some ore. I think you need to budget the money you have and NOT raise taxes. WHAT are you doing with the money you already have??
some MORE for the city
some MORE for the schools
some MORE for btc
some more for water- this doesnt even includ the TREATMENT plant that needs to be fixed
some more for what else when will it stop!!!????

drop it already we cannot afford a NEW arena. I find it funny how the pro team gets their money from donations yet they want the CITY to pay for the rest and not donations- it should also be donations if you want it!

May pay is less I dont go buy even more stuff. I have to readjust and pay what is needed maybe you guys should try it and REDUCE our taxes