FYI The wind this afternoon is strong enough for a wind turbine to begin to make a small amount of power. How many days like this do we get in southern WI? Right, very few. The wind today would be a class 4 and we are a class 2.

Eco Energy has sold the wind rights for the Evansville turbines to a Company in Spain, Acciona. Imagine, a company from Illinois (EcoEnergy) comes to the Town of Union, and the Town of Magnolia, sells the wind rights to a project that doesn’t exist. The best part of this is those of us that get our power from Evansville Water and Light will be buying this power from Spain after they tack on a nice margin. You must admit these EcoEnergy boys have guts.

I can see it now, a phone number painted on the turbine to call this Spanish Co. if you have a problem with the noise or shadow flicker, 1-800-NO-COMPRENDER.

Here is a recent article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

If the PSC gets the power to site all turbines do you seriously believe they will write a new standard that is more restrictive than the one they use today? If they did the PSC would be admitting they have done it wrong up till now. That’s never going to happen. Ever since the PSC pulled and buried the model ordinance they have reduced the noise requirements for developers like EcoEnergy. The bogus model ordinance had a 50dB maximum limit, but now they are permitting a 50db average with no specified time period. That means a turbine could produce 100dB all night long and if there is no wind the next day the turbine would be shut down (parked) and all that time would be recorded as zero dB. Bingo! they have a 50dB average and you haven’t slept a wink all night. With no specified time limit EcoEnergy would always have an open end so there would never be an average. EcoEnergy would always be in compliance no matter how much noise their turbines make. Without local control the burden of proof and the cost will be borne by each resident.

The next thing the PSC will do is reduce the setback for a house from 1000’ to 600’. The PSC allows developers like EcoEnergy to force a turbine host to accept this setback from their own home.

The Town of Union ordinance has this noise, compliance, and complaint resolution issue nailed down tight.

Trust the local officials that you elected to protect your health, safety, and welfare.

Say no to any form of siting reform.

Correction: Under no circumstances can a SOFTER sound mask a LOUDER sound. (Duh!)

One more comment... The audio masking effect does NOT decrease the intensity of either the masking sound or the sound being masked. The masking effect is irrelevant when the ratio of two sounds is greater than 3dB. Under no circumstances can a louder sound mask a quieter sound.

I'd like to clear up some misconceptions about decibels and low frequency audio. Sound energy expressed in decibels can be confusing to laypeople.

The decibel is a logarithmic expression of the ratio of two sounds. An increase of 6dB represents a doubling of intensity, while an increase of 20dB represents an order of magnitude (10x) increase in intensity. Therefore, an increase from 25dB to 50dB is not an increase of 5 times, but an increase of 17.78 times. Likewise, an increase of 40dB represents 100 times; 60dB=1,000 times; 80dB=10,000; and so on. Under normal conditions, most people have no trouble discerning a 3dB (70.7%) increase or decrease in sound level. The standard of 1dB is considered to be the smallest practical increment of increase or decrease.

Low or very low frequency sounds can be greatly amplified via standing wave resonance inside a large enclosure, like a house. Consider how resonance amplifies an almost silent breath as it blows across the opening of a bottle or jug. This same phenomenon can occur if the correct frequency sound causes your home to resonate. The intensity of that low frequency resonance is usually many times greater than the external source of that sound. What's worse is, the psycho-acoustic effect of standing wave resonance is very different than for a "normal" sound. It can sometimes seem to be emanating from inside your head. It has even been used for torture.

So, if you honestly believe that some external noise is too loud inside your home, then it probably is. Don't let anybody try to snow you.

Safe for everyone ELSE, 2dog...Remember, the manufacturer of these things advises their workers not to get within 1/2 mile of them while they are operating. These would be the guys with the hardhats. But Eco, and some legislators, don't care that our kids could be within 1,000 ft. if Eco gets their way. Our local govt. cares. Does our State Govt.? Gov. Doyle? Sen. Plale? Sen. Erpenbach?

Remember folks: The State government wants to take away local rule. Like that do you?
It is our democracy being chipped away.
If you vote for this ruling you are saying you do not want to have a say in how your city or town is run. You are saying you don't mind having 400 to 500 foot industial wind turbines 1000 foot from your subdivision in town?
They say they are completely safe and let your kids play under them?

My last post proves one thing and that is you can't lean one way or the other you need to be in the middle. A common ground on any subject is so hard to acheive. It seems it is always an us against them mentallity. We need to stop this and work for a common goal which is what is best for the country and everybody in it. DaleB rock on brotha! Keep on doing what you do and I will do what I do and we'll meet in the middle!

DaleB you are obviously working for the Chinese government. That kind of foolish thinking is what pinko communist liberals want you to do. Are you a commy? Maybe you do not know the difference. I know that kind of thinking is very dangerous and you should probably get some help. Just because a so called genius says something about anything it does not make them right. Whoa, you mean to tell me that a genius is not always right? Yes that is what I am telling you. There are a number of examples but one I will give you is that corn ethenol is a greener fuel. If you believe that it is I have ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you. You have to be very careful about who you pledge you intelectual allegence to so foolish things do not happen to you or your loved ones. Remember that smart people are for the most part book smart and do not have the common sense God gave a chimp and yes they are wrong more often than not. You and your liberal friends should take a hard look in the mirror and make darn sure that all of you are sure that communistic, socialistic liberalism is what you really want for you and your families. Oh wait a minute you probably do not have a family because it is greener not to! Liberals, what are they good for? I agree there has to be two sides to every story but pull your head out of your cheeks and take a look around. The world is not in as bad a shape as you think. It is however being overrun by sheep(liberals) that think that they know what is best for everybody. Why don't you ask king obama for advice. I am sure that he can help you wreck what is left of your community and help you screw the rest of us in the process. Less is more in some cases and in your case I think this is true. Last thing, when you are offered the Kool-Aid just say no way and walk away. Oh that is right you can't! Mindless sheep, must not think for myself, must be P.C., must be P.C.. God I love this country. I hope you all do too.

Darwin1 A 1.5MW turbine produces 105dB at the hub. This is a line source of noise so with simple distance attenuation you would subtract 3 dB for every doubling of the distance from the hub. At 1024’ you could expect 75dB. Wind developers will tell you that the masking effect of the wind will reduce the noise level to 50dB. Wind developers like EcoEnergy think it's OK to subject you to this amount of noise. The problem with the noise occurs when there is no wind on the ground to mask the noise but there is sufficient wind at 400’ to turn the turbine. This condition can occur 40% of the nights in WI. When a temperature inversion happens the noise will be 75dB or more. For comparison a rock concert is rated at 110dB. Nighttime sound levels in a rural area are about 25db, so an increase to 50dB is 5 times louder. This is a low frequency noise that is not stopped by wood framed house walls. To make matters worse the noise level will go up and down all night as the wind speed and direction change. This is why people can’t get to sleep or stay asleep. With a setback of one half mile from a home you will still have a problem with the noise 10% of the nights. The Town of Union ordinance specifies a 5dB over background maximum noise level so that people can sleep at night. An increase of 5dB or less is considered unnoticeable.

You had made a comment about a Harley. When a Harley goes past your home at night it may wake you up, but you will get back to sleep. What would you do if the Harley parked right outside your bedroom window and continuously revved up the engine for a week straight and you had no way of stopping it. The only way for you to get nights sleep is to leave your home. That’s what it’s like living 1000’ from a wind turbine.

Say Darwin1, Alliant energy has recorded it above 70 dec. at the Eden Wind Farm however that is the high frequency range, The problem is they will not acknowledge the low frequency noise that is creating the most problems.I am having problems with turbines over 1,500 ft. away from my house. at times it sounds like a locomotive is going to come right through the walls. It is very scary at times and usually wakes the family up. It not only has noise but also shakes and vibrates, I personally feel the pulsing from the blades turning in my ears which has caused headaches. Alliant energy will not discuss the low frequency noise, go figure!

Does anyone know the decibel levels of these turbines at 1000 feet away? Isn't this something we should know?

Hey Wrenched1bad according to Stephen Hawking, at the rate the population is increasing Earth will reach a point of time in short order where no longer the world can support the masses with energy. The problem again is, as you can only fit so many people in your car Earth can only support a limited amount of animal life! We must reduce the population, there is no other way! If your really into helping future generations with this problem teach your daughters to only have one child!

When the Government proves to me their back in the business of being "for the people" I'll stop being skeptical of anything they recommend. As it stands now anyone (with eyes & a functioning brain)can see Commercial Industry & Big Business has our governments loyalties.

We sat by while this monster was created (i.e. crooked politicians,), & now its bigger then all of us together (apparently), because it flourishes as we gripe & do what we do best. Nothing.

Giving this authority to the state is nothing more than "eminent domain".

The wind companies get their money from the government (read: taxpayers). One of the many things that people don't understand is that they get that money to build them. Period. It doesn't matter at all to them if they ever produce one watt of energy. So, they don't care, for example, that in Union Twsp., according to the national weather service and F.A.A. records, there has never been a year since they've been keeping these records, that there has been enough wind to be CLOSE to the speed necessary to run these things. That's why Eco, for example, refused to share the info they get from their recently constructed tower. When asked why, they simply said because they didn't have to. And these are the folks that the Guv. and Erpenbach are supporting???

learnmore? you claim "public tax dollars thrown at wind energy ($10,000 per household)"
Can you back up that claim?
What's your source of this?

The devil is in the details, and there are a lot of details with industrial wind energy. Industrial wind turbines are extremely bad at reducing emissions from coal fired power plants is the main detail left out by wind developers' lobbying rhetoric.Wind lobbyists paint rosey, ideal wind generation situations using limited/selective information to paint wind energy as the chosen green energy panacea. This is false. It is the utilities' choice of green energy because it keeps us all grid dependent. A better solution would be to take the public tax dollars thrown at wind energy ($10,000 per household) and invest it in county and local solar and biomass electrical generating options. Solar is security against grid failure and biomass conversion can be done using local renewable resources. No corporate wind overlords with their bad legislation required.

That is just it, you fear what you do not know and then spread it to others thinking you are doing a great service to us all. I can say that I am a whatever and find no ill affects of anything to anybody. Everybody take a deep breath. Now that we are all calm let's look at it this way. Do we need more research on the subject? Apparently the answer is yes. If there are health problems that affect people who live near them maybe they need to be built away from people. Wow simple problem, simple anwer. Not looking at the problem and finding a solution is how you get yourself into trouble. Why do you think the the car companies are in trouble right now? Also if your so concerned about how the question is written and or phrased maybe you have missed the point completely!

As a nurse I find plenty of research showing industrial wind turbines harm peoples health. It is a worldwide problem. Quite honestly, it is alarming. When will our state government represent the people instead of big business? Reminds me of some of the drug scares we have had in the past. Remember Vioxx? Big business says "its good"....so it's good....then government says, "o.k.,it's good if you say it is"....then, people get sick (some die)....get lawyers...and then government finally has to do something. However, for many it is too late because the drug has already affected their health!

The state has shown no desire to protect infants, children, the elderly, or individuals who are being forced to live with the consequences of industrial wind turbines as neighbors. It would be wise to leave local municipalities to decide how close an industrial size wind turbine should be to a home. I fear the state and wind corporations would not protect the health and safety of our children, the elderly and general populations.

I agree with bad deal,Why does it always have to be a play with words, probably because the wind mills are more political than than the public is led to believe. Heres an idea, Why doesn't the State have them constructed on state owned land, like one of the forests,The Developers could pay the State for the use of the land which would not only help Gov. Doyles energy mandate but also his miss governed Budget.Just think, all the people who use the state parks could enjoy the beauty of the 400' turbines as well as the earth shaking noise. I think the new phrase would be " NOT IN MY STATE FOREST" Excuse me while I have a seizure.

What is the decibel level at 1000 feet of the turbine? I can't imagine it is louder than a Harley.

I agree with kitfox, this poll is misleading. It should be worded like this.
Do you support the state placing a 400' tall wind turbine 1000' from your home?

You folks in the media with the power to create this stuff need to get your head screwed on straight!!

Hey Lenny59 you are more than likely correct about the wind farm, I personally do not know what sound they make because I do not live by one. I do however work by a very busy airport and like most things in life when you are around something that annoys the heck out of you you get used to it. I believe that wind farms are exactly that, farms and should be treated as such. What do I mean? Put them on the outskirts of town in the middle of nowhere and if towns build out towards them people should be aware of the noise (if they make alot)and other problems that they may cause. Lenny59 you may be right, I do not know, you may be a schill for some other alternative energy source say corn ethenol. Which by the way is not a greener fuel, it actually creates more green house gases than fossil fuels. I bet you did not know that, but back to the matter at hand. If you do not like your lot in life improve upon it and stop blaming others for your misfortune. Wind turbines as I stated before are not the cure all they are a part of a bigger solution for this country and state. Lenny59 I am sure that some of your problems could be solved by a move to say a quieter part of town. I know what you are going to say "I was here first they should move or not be put up at all!". What a crock of well you know what. Get with the times or get left behind. A home is just a place where you rest your head at night, the memories are the things you take with you. As for the state setting regulations on this matter, I believe that they would set a minimum set of guide lines and local commmunities would expand upon them. Remember they generate power and who sets the regulations for power? That's right you guessed it the government! Contact your area rep. and get in their ear about this subject and it will help guide them down the right paths otherwise sit back and wait for the shafting of the people. Oh wait that happens anyways!

It is extremely frustrating to listen to the lies of energy companies when they say the sound of an industrial wind turbine is like a conversation, as loud as your refrigerator, like waves on the ocean, like leaves blowing on trees, shadow flicker is minimal and "can" be eliminated, property values actually go up in a wind farm and on and on. Sound is like sitting on a jet runway or listening to a Chinook helicopter lifting a load. In the house (this very minutes in fact) it is like listening to your heart in a stethoscope. Health affects include: sleep deprivation, headaches, ringing & buzzing in the ears, balance, anxiety, lack of motivation, memory loss & chest pains to name a few. In Guantanamo Bay sleep deprivation is considered torture. What about wind farm residents? Why can we be tortured? Flicker is such a major problem in that some people leave their homes to avoid headaches and seizures. Property values plummet and in some case realtors tell people "It doesn’t pay to come out as your house will not sell”. For more factual education on life in a wind farm go to www.betterplan.squarespace.com and for health information go to www.windturbinesyndrome.com. Wind is not free. It creates terrible health issues. PLEASE let your representatives know they should not support the take over of local control of wind turbine siting. This bill must be defeated. If it is not you will have an industrial wind turbine near you.

Hey Professor...would that be a POLL about a POLE?

What about this question for a poll: "Would you support a statewide set of siting rules, if the agency responsible for setting those rules did not base them on scientific or medical data?"

What makes this pole a bit misdirected is that the presumption would be that the State would be responsible in setting the rules/guidelines about safety in the first place. They weren't, as they were forced to admit that their first Model Ordinance was based on ZERO scientific/medical research, and was, in fact, written by a Florida utility company.

Gina, your pole question should be worded like this.
Do you support the state placing a 400' tall wind turbine 1000' from your home?

as of now, I see by the poll, that 55% of you guys still want more government telling you what to do and how to do it,,,way to go!!!

WHY SHOW US THE PHOTOS OF THAT POOR WRETCHED DOG !! THAT PHOTO IS STILL IN MY MINDS' EYE. I LOVE DOGS SO MUCH AND THE POOR THING MAKES ME SO SAD AND I CRIED FOR IT. ISN'T THERE ENOUGH BAD NEWS OUT THERE NOT TO RESORT TO THIS ? THE ARTICLE WOULD HAVE SUFFICED.

Yeah right!

I think the $25,000 licensing fee for children is a great idea. I bet it would reduce welfare and heroin overdoses.

Wow DaleB chill out! Think about the topic for a minute before responding. People will always procreate and energy will always be used. Wind energy is not the whole answer and you and I both know it. We as a nation not just a state need to become more proactive in finding a sustainable alternative energy source for future generations. The oil will not run out in our life times or our kids but our kids kids or so on. Who knows when it will run out. I know this, a guide line from the state on wind power could help local communities set guide lines of their own or give them a base to work from that is all that would be, a minimum set of guide lines. Now as for a charge for kids(I know you weren't being serious), if you stop and think of what it costs to raise kids you would agree the mere pennies you get back at tax time is a fraction of what you really spend for everything that kids need or the government requires nowadays. If we all do our part to conserve a little that adds up to alot! Think about it! Okay stop thinking and start doing.

So the State decides Janseville needs 50 wind mills... Great, i love mechanically seperated birds dropping down on me! Hey friends we need less people on this planet not more energy sources... Someday we will have 50 billion people on Earth and if half of them plugged in their electric cars at the same time they would most likley explode the plantet... Instead of a tax break for having a child charge a $25,000.00 licence fee for each one, now this would have an impact on the world that would help all... Silly i know, but really think about what i say...