mymaro: What part of Arizona did you live in? It was not like that where I lived.

This bizarre suggestion to mix property inspections with the assessment process, and fine home owners did not come from the city manager. It came from a council member and will probably die there. A mayor would be more likely than a city manager to do this sort of thing since they could claim an election mandate. Politics needs to be kept to a minimum and a Mayorial system would make things worse. Look around at other cities. Do we want to be like Madison? Look at their taxes and pettinesss.

We need a Mayoral System, so when they start doing things like this, we can vote them out of office. How many of you have the kind of job security the Janesville City Manager has? Even the U.S. President can be impeached if he screws up to badly. City Managers care less about, "the good of the community".. their bottom line seems to be revenue.. how to generate it, & how to spend it as quickly & unwisely as possible.

Taxes should be based only on the square footage of the home and the property. My taxes should not be based on what my neighbors added to their homes. Two houses side by side that are the same size with the same size lot should have the same taxes. So what if one of them just spent $10,000 to remodel a kitchen. If I did a bunch of remodeling that did not add to the sq. footage, my neighbor should not have to pay a higher tax because of it. We should be able to make whatever improvements we want that does not include adding to the size of the home without having to pay higher taxes. I think permits are a wise decision to protect the homeowner but if it's going to be used to flag the property for higher taxes, then that is wrong.

What a double standard!!!!!!!
Janesville and Wisconsin is one big joke! This state and city needs to get real before they tax people right out of the city and state. "Mark my words " We will see more people leave this state and city due to taxes. The city and state population will drop big time.
Not to mention the unemployment rate that will rise like we have never seen before. My family is moving out of this over taxed state and city in two weeks. We can't wait!!!

Oldtimer, go to the city's web site, click on city services (the green button on the left at the top). In the page that pops up click the scroll down button entitled "Select a Topic" and select "permits and licenses". Go down the list of links until you get to "plumbing permits" and click it. The fee for a water heater permit is $7.00.
JimBeam53548, I've been paying taxes for a long time, I don't think I'll ever get used to it, but if we ever do, how much of a tax increase do you think would satisfy them? Would they want some more next year? The year after? Would it ever stop on its own?

like your new school repairs? Like paying for all these nut check collectors? Like paying for all the people locked up in prison in this state for non violent crimes? Get used to it.
How'd ya like to live in Russia?

Do you really need permit to replace a water heater? I was trying to find it on the city web site.

One thing you're missing about permits - inspections. The morons who replaced the wiring in my older home did it on the sly without getting a permit. Of course I'm now finding tons of problems like ungrounded outlets, over stuffed conduit, over loaded circuits...

Had they followed the law and got a permit, they would have had to have it inspected - and forced to follow building code.

Now if everyone always followed building code - we wouldn't need inspections, would we?

Yes, you need a permit to replace a water heater. Why? Because too many morons install them wrong and they explode like an atom bomb in your basement. So the permit ensures that the installation is inspected by someone to ensure you and your family are safe from poor installations.

Seriously... most of you people can't see past your wallet, but you sure would be pissed if your water heater decided to go into low earth orbit one night because your brother-in-law helped you install it on the sly.

I feel charging people for a building permit for a home improvement is a crock of %*#$%.
Also raising property taxes because a person improves his or her home is wrong. In my case I work hard to earn the money to make the improvements.It took many years to save up to make them one by one.The city thinks because
we can make improvements we can afford to pay higher property taxes. That`s BULL.The city wants our houses to look nice and not like dumps but what happens when we fix our houses ?
No matter how little. We get penalized.if we don`t get a building permit We get fined.If
we want to do some remodeling to our own houses we should be able to without paying the city.

Okay my problem here is common sence

janesville charges you money for a permit so they know to raise your taxes. That is a crock of crap because its just to get more money. If you do not inprove your property, they will tear it down. I only have problems with this because they do nothing to enforce regululations that do exsist. For example, in my subdivision there is a covanant that says NO parking RVs Boats etc. in your driveway period, nothing is done and they are everywhere. It also clearly states that there are to be zero sheds of anykind, they are everywhere. There is no stop signs, holes in the road, dump trucks fly down the road and I have called police several times and nothing is ever done.

So when the city gets thier act together then they can talk about us as citizens until then they can pound sand. These people on the counsil need to go and we need to elect a Mayor, someone who has to perform or is out of a job. These people now are horrible and just looking for more ways to get into your pocket for worthless BS

Bye

This is totally ridiculous! My husband lost his job and we now have to look forward to paying higher property taxes because they decided that they wanted to base your property taxes on 100% assessment instead of 80%. And now they even want to re-evaluate your homes so they could charge you even more taxes! When I lived in Arizona, I owned a 4000 square foot home that my husband and I subcontracted someone to build. We were on a foothill and we were only paying $2200 a year on property taxes. We did not have any less services than we have here. Here I own a 1700 square foot home and am paying over $4000 and now it will probably go up even more. I knew I should have never moved to Janesville, WI!

Some of you sound just like teenagers. It shouldn't be illegal so I will simply ignore the law.

Follow the law and get involved to change it. You should be fined if you don't follow the law, any law, regardless of your personal opinion of it.

You need a permit to replace a water heater? If you call a company to replace it for you, versus buying and replacing it yourself at Menards, does said company ask if you have obtained a permit before they will do the work? I doubt it. As I am sure the window place doesn't ask if you've gotten a permit to replace a window with a bigger/smaller one than what was originally there..which is when a permit is required. Just like this whole city wide sidewalk issue. You can replace it or create a new one through a private contractor but you have to buy the permit so the city knows who put in sidewalk and who didn't. Sucking the community dry is all they are doing.

"Should we fine the city when they don't use common sense?" Sure, but the city budget would be used up on this fine by January 4th.

What if the person who owned the house before you did things without a permit? We have found things that were done by the original owner that we've had re-done by professionals, but I don't even know what all "Mr. Do-it-Yourself" did without permits??? Could I be held responsible for stuff I don't even know about???

I am torn on this issue, as well. I always believed that a permit is in place to ensure that the work is done by a person qualified to do the work safely, by following up with an inspection. Plumbing, electrical, HVAC does require sufficient knowledge in order to not harm existing structure, protect the air and water and neigboring homes.

I know MANY contractors though, that have friends who exchange work. (ie: I'll have you come over and update my electrical work in exchange for my updating your plumbing...) In these instances, I don't believe the city needs to be involved.

It's interesting how many people think they can do their own work, though, by reading the latest copy of "Do It Yourself" without taking into consideration the damage that can be done if not done correctly.

Or to "flip" a house and make as much as they can by making a home aesthetically appealing, yet functionally shoddy. Not to mention being unsafe and dangerous to a gullible/uninformed home buyer and their family.

The timing couldn't be worse for this type of proposal. The council should cut cost rather then look for additional revenues from an already ailing population. I can bet with certainty that if this takes place you will a major decrease in home improvements, which might end up being a net loss for the city in the long run. There are enough houses in disrepair already in some parts of the city.

I think Steeber may be on his way out for the second time :)

happycamper: you are certainly right, the city should be charged for being slow in many areas of improvement. In repairing or improving anything around Janesville, they take an ungodly long time or until a massive amount of individuals wreck their lives or their mode of transportation. Many times the politician mind takes over their thoughts and their well beings, instead of their supporters who elected them.

Why should others be given a free ride (tax wise) when people like myself follow the rules??

When I had my basement finished, it had a permit and was properly built. What mechanism is in place to protect me, my family and my home from joe and jane doofuss next door??? They may have had shoddy "improvements" made that may de-value my asset (house) and put my life at risk! A building permit and an inspection will solve this.

There are many people who sneak in a remodel or improvement and then hope they evade the assessor until the next re-assessment. This amounts to nothing more than TAX EVASION!!!

I hope that the current city council members read this poll!!! Oh I forgot to add "In my opinion" to my last comment. Have to make it a
legal blog. :-)

I am torn between the 2 sides on this one. I don't want to pay an unfair share of the tax revenue, on the other hand, a new furnace or water heater add nothing to the value of a home in spite of the assessor's opinion, but it devalues a home if you don't replace an obsolete one. You don't see the assessor’s office subtracting depreciation for aging assets, do you? Yet they are right there jacking up your assessment when you replace one.
Tax fairness is in the eye of the beholder.

Whats wrong Russ Steeber, are not people hurting enough with this down economy. How many people out their have installed water softeners, water heaters, windows, decks, fences,etc without permits, thousands I bet over the years. Most of these people bought their base products through the big box stores to save money because they themselves or a friend of thiers knew how to install these products. Russ Steeber is a militant self rightous law enforcement officier who has never had to feel the pain of saving a buck. Being a government paid employee gives him job security that the rest of us do not have. Opening the door to his gustapo type tatics will only serve to create a "bar the door" policy to any accessor. If the council continues to intertain this punitive motion, I would suggest making the accessor sign a non-disclosure agreement upon entering the premesis, that would make his data for assessment puposes only and could not be forwarded or viewed by code officials. If the accessor failed to sign the document he can come back with a valid search warrant and a couple of police officiers to serve it. In essence this would cost the city untold dollars in overtime and legal fee's to police a few thousand houses. Maybe then Russ Steeber can bring his swat team, which he is a member of, to your door and take you out in hand cuffs only to make you a felon. All this for
your failure to pull a $50.00 permit fee. It's time to kick steeber off the council before he initiatates ordinances that would make janesville the Police State capitol of Wisconsin.

Why have the ordinance in place if you don't enforce it? Fine the people who build or add-on without permits.

Retire AF - you wrote that "permit are to cover inspections and Paperwork... so break it down for me (cost/administration wise on where does that money go that we pay for a permit)
a piece of paper with writing on it ( 1 piece-heavy card stock) = $.08, A pen (marker) $2.35 (at Wal-mart), and inspector gets paid (by the city (figuring his longevity with the city) maybe $16.00/hr = $18.43 per inspector, the city charges the owner (in our area) $245.00 (flat fee) for the permit... I think that they cover the cost (and them some) just for some jobs that will, 1) improve your look to your house, or 2) to fix something that is needed to make living there adequate.. --Retired AF-- ,,, I am not trying to slam you (by any means) it just makes me think that city has turned into the (military) Gov't.. charging outlandish prices for something that can be done at a minimal cost... Let them charge for a permit for such things as a"New garage" or a "Second Floor" but leave repairs alone... (replacing a furnace, moving a sink, or evening tiling a bathroom).. they cost enough in today's economy...
I 'm sorry if this came off as an attack on you... I was just venting..thanks

Not only is the city concerned with generating revenue from the Permit Fees, but this way they can keep tabs on who is making home improvements. Home improvements increase property values which increase property taxes.

The theory behind the permit is sound; insure building standards are maintained and the structure is safe to use as a dwelling. The problem is politicians have decided to use the fees as a revenue source instead of their original intent---to cover the cost of the paperwork and the inspection staff ONLY.

ray53511 yes they do .

a permit is required to change a hot water heater. all the city is concerned with is generating revenue. Does the city get permits for everything they do?

I can understand a permit for major improvements like a addition to your home or building a garage, but some thing simple as changing or adding a outlet or sink etc.. should not require it. Even remodeling shouldn't unless it is changing the structure of the builing.
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As for what needs a permit I am not sure as I have never had to renovate my home. But perhaps if this seems like it is a rampant problem, then maybe stores such as Menards should have to see a copy of the permit before allowing you to purchase the items. (Sarcasm)
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As the article states how is the city going to know who did the remodling ? Was it the current owner or the previous one or did they miss it the last time they came through or whatever.
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I just would hope that they wouldn't do a big investigation costing thousands of dollars only to recover a few hundred in fines.

A permit shouldn't be required unless the activity appreciably alters the structure above ground level. Some cities have gone as far as to require a permit to change a faucet. It can get really crazy and simply done to raise revenue.

Then why get a permit if your not going to enforce it?

Should we fine the city when they don't use common sense?