Hey, Maine2010,
http://www.westernjournalism.com/walker-...
What is up with all the cut and paste?
Did you take a computer class or something?

Continued - Part II of II
Walker Cost Unions a Fortune:
The largest unions in Wisconsin are teacher’s unions, and the largest of these, the Wisconsin Education Association (WEA) has spent decades running a highly profitable, “non-profit” health insurance scheme. According to state law, collective bargaining rather than price and quality of coverage determined the company that would provide health insurance for union teachers and covered employees. And coincidentally, the WEA invariably chose WEA Trust, an insurance provider that just happened to be “established by and closely associated with the union.”
But upon passage of the Walker-supported law cinching the loss of collective bargaining rights by public sector unions, school districts are now permitted to shop among numerous quality providers. In one example of switching from WEA Trust to another carrier with comparable coverages, the Heartland-Lakeside School District “expects to save $690,000 in the [next] fiscal year.”
Scott Walker not only exposed organized labor as a money-fixated organ of the Democrat Party; he showed quite clearly what can be accomplished by a courageous, conservative politician who will NOT be bullied into compromise with the insatiable forces of the power-hungry left. The question is whether Republicans will learn from his example!

Walker Cost Unions A Fortune by D. Book (5/7/2012): Recalled Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker won the special election against Tom Barrett on Tuesday, his 7 point win an improvement over the 6-point 2010 margin of victory. And as for the $21 million FOX News reported organized labor to have poured into the recall sweepstakes? Call it a crap shoot designed in the hope of recouping some portion of the stunning losses unions have suffered over the past 24 months.
Two Walker-sponsored laws have decimated both the power and bank accounts of government sector unions, the first making Wisconsin a right-to-work state and the next doing away with the dues check-off so prized by organized labor. The check-off privilege means “…government seizes union dues straight from workers’ paychecks. The union hierarchy spends that cash on politicking to elect favored candidates. And then the politicians do the union bosses’ bidding.”
Adding insult to injury, along with the check-off generated, automatic payroll deduction, a “service fee” is charged equal to the amount of an employee’s union dues! All of this money which used to go directly into union coffers is now lost.
And thanks to the right to opt out of union membership, AFSCME (the 2nd largest union in Wisconsin) has seen its membership rolls dwindle from 62,818 in March of 2011 to 28,745 in February of 2012, nearly a 60% decline.
Wisconsin’s public unions have paid dearly in their losing battle against freedom for state workers. In 2011, they spent millions trying to put leftist judge Anne Kloppenburg on the State Supreme Court. Vowing to act as “…a check and balance against overreaching by the executive and legislative branches,” it was obvious Kloppenburg would be the vital liberal vote necessary to swing decisions of the Court to the benefit of labor. She was defeated by incumbent conservative, David Prosser.
Labor also backed Wisconsin Democrat state senators’ flight to Illinois in order to avoid voting on a budget bill that required government employees to pay a portion of their own employee benefits. As the bill also gutted public union bargaining rights, labor was intent upon delaying the vote until Senate Republicans could be intimidated into seeing things their way. In the end, labor bosses succeeded only in spending a fortune and making Democrat Senators look ridiculous.

So, that being said, how much did the PACs for Walker spend in total? Apples to Apples applies here.

Big Labor spent 23 Million on the recall for Barrett, plus Barrett had 6 Million on hand.

Walker spent total of 28 Million.
.....

"Therefore, anyone who insinuates that the Right outspent the Left by 8 to 1 in this race, would be claiming conservatives spent more than $180 million on the race.

While we can document our findings, such claims from the Left are undocumented and baseless"

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2012/06/...

Public sector compensation in Wisconsin remains excessive – May 31, 2012 by P. Mirengoff:
As the recall election in Wisconsin approaches, this paper on public employee compensation in Wisconsin is worth a look. Andrew Biggs of AEI and Jason Richwine of Heritage find that even with the passage of Act 10, the Budget Repair Act that led to battle being waged by the public sector unions and their leftist comrades, the average Wisconsin state worker receives total compensation including benefits of $81,637, compared to $67,068 for a similarly-skilled private worker — a difference of $14,569.
The salaries of the the two sets of employees are just about equal. However, even with the reform, pension benefits for Wisconsin public employees are roughly 4.5 times more valuable than private sector levels while health benefits are about twice as generous as those paid by larger private sector Wisconsin employers. This difference results in a combined salary-benefits compensation premium of around 22 percent for state workers over private sector workers, with varying but often larger pay advantages for local government employees, the study finds.
Before the Act, the premium was 28 percent. So public sector employees been adversely affected by the Act, to be sure. But given the large degree to which they continue to be over-compensated, it’s easy to see why a majority of Wisconsin voters appear unsympathetic to their grievances.

Continued - Part II of II:
Greedy labor unions deserved outcome of Black Tuesday election

More important, it is intellectually dishonest to implicitly lump private- and public-sector unions together, or to not acknowledge the differences between the two. In the public sector, there is no natural counterweight to labor demands. With union war chests, endorsements and get-out-the-vote efforts serving as one big carrot, the people on the management side of the table — politicians — are incentivized to give the unions what they want. Our former governor, Jon Corzine, illustrated this perfectly when he told a union rally in front of the Statehouse a few years ago: “We will fight for a fair contract!” If Corzine was supposed to be playing “management” on that stage, he was reading from the wrong script.
And unlike private-sector unions, where the continued health of the company is in the best interest of both labor and management, everyone in the public sector is playing with house money. When “profit” isn’t a concern, and instead replaced with higher debt, taxes and fees, the natural inclination is to keep the game going. It’s a game that taxpayers may finally be on to.
There are, of course, plenty of hard-working government employees — police, teachers and firefighters — who signed on to the job expecting their contracts to be honored. Simply put: They were lied to. New Jersey is sitting on roughly $35 billion in unfunded pension liabilities for public-sector workers and another $66 billion for future health-care benefits. There isn’t a “millionaire’s tax” big enough to fill that gap. And the sooner we start addressing that lie, now decades in the making, in an honest manner, the less painful the solution will be. Utah recently replaced its defined benefit plans with 401(k)s that both save taxpayer money and are portable for the employees, should they leave the public sector.
If there are lessons to draw from the battle in Wisconsin, the first is that greed, as Big Labor’s vitriolic reaction proved, is not a commodity exclusive to Wall Street or the “1 percent.” The second is that reform is indeed possible. But it won’t be easy.

Greedy labor unions deserved outcome of Black Tuesday election - June 10, 2012 by M. Bastian
It was Black Tuesday for public-sector unions last week. In Wisconsin, Gov. Scott Walker prevailed over Tom Barrett in a bitter recall election; in California, the cities of San Jose and San Diego approved, by wide margins, ballot initiatives that reformed pension benefits for municipal workers. As the economy continues to sputter and ailing local budgets feel the strain, voters across the country are starting to pay closer attention to the deals municipal and state workers have struck for themselves over the years.
They are the types of deals that allow bus drivers in Madison to clear $150,000 per year due to generous overtime rules; deals that gave Wisconsin snowplow operators automatic overtime if they were deployed outside the usual day shift, as if blizzards arrive at pre-set hours of the day; deals that permit a city electrician in Chicago to retire with a six-figure pension because the pension is tied, by law, to the salary of any union office he may have held; and, closer to home, deals that have allowed officials such as the head of the Trenton Policemen’s Benevolent Association to earn more than $500,000 in salary and benefits since 2006 for doing union work on the side (a procedure called union release).
These are but a few examples. At a time when budgets are tight and municipalities are contemplating “user fees” to help fund basic services, many government employees are paid extra for either being in a union or, as with the snowplow drivers, simply showing up to work. And as these abuses against the taxpayer are uncovered, local officials can offer but one meek response: “It’s in the contract.”
Mr. Walker’s heresy, of course, was in daring to conclude that when the only good answer is “It’s in the contract,” then the problem is that there was a contract in the first place. He set out to change the bargaining rules, except for salary, and give local school districts more flexibility. The savings, particularly for teacher insurance policies, were almost immediate. Union bosses and liberal pundits, however, quickly pounced, accusing Walker of “waging war” on wage earners, the middle class and workers’ rights. “Unions built the middle class!” was the common refrain.
The claims don’t stand up to scrutiny. With less than 7 percent of the private-sector work force in unions as of 2011, it’s safe to say that the country has a large middle class with careers and workplace safety that owe nothing to collective bargaining. If there is any truth to the claim that unions built the middle class, it is a quaint vestige of the 1950s, when most of the world was still rebuilding from World War II and American manufacturing was the only game in town. Today, in a global economy, forcing Company X to pay higher wages and benefits than Competitor Y only ensures the demise of Company X.

June 9, 2012
Illinois Teachers Beware: Your Pensions Aren’t Safe

In a country where unscrupulous union bosses have colluded with cowardly politicians to promise — but not to fund — high pensions to public employees for year after year, Illinois stands out.

Specifically, the Illinois Teachers Retirement Fund is one of the country’s worst funded pension funds. According to accountants — who use softer methods to measure the health of public funds than they do of private pensions — teacher pensions in Illinois are only 45 percent funded — the fund is expected to be able to pay less than half the pensions Illinois politicians and union heads have been promising for years.

$44 billion in promised benefits isn’t going to be there unless something magical happens.

yada at least post new lies, the old ones are boring.

Throughout the recovery, public-sector employment figures have been dismal. Even though recent data suggests that government job losses might have peaked, there is an ugly accounting change looming that could prove a permanent deterrent to a large rebound in government hiring.
The accounting change is being driven by the Government Accounting Standards Board (GASB) and relates to pension liabilities. Governments will soon be required to report their pension liabilities alongside their other liabilities, like long-term debt, on their financial statements. Currently governments are allowed to bury their unfunded pension liabilities in the footnotes of their financial statements. When they calculate their financial ratios, they are also not required to include future liabilities owed to retirees.
With pension costs expected to take up larger and larger amounts of tax revenues, politicians will have no excuse to ignore their ballooning pension problems. What has long been an unpleasant fact for budget officers will soon become a very visible sign to government officials, the public and investors that pension burdens are very heavy and that adding employees means long-term fiscal burdens that many governments don’t have the fiscal space to take on.
Current post-employment benefit system for public employees is unsustainable and the pubic is just waking up to the fact that reform is needed. San Diego and San Jose proved that voters are eager to put these benefits back in line with those offered in the private sector. Expect more votes like this across the country as state/municipal finances continue to strain under the weight of promises made to retirees. 401k retirement plans for new public employees will be the new normal, and in many cases where pensions are severely underfunded expect pension obligations to be restructured.

Some people just can't accept reality. Is it John Koch or Doe Brothers, they seem confused now. Maybe the bite of reality has caused them to slobber a little bit more.

Walker, Walker, Walker, Walker, Walker!!!
************************************************************************
MOVING THE GREAT STATE OF WISCONSIN "FORWARD"
****************************************************************
FINALLY; FORWARD ------->
*********************************************************

Scott Walker's "STONEWALLING" of the John Doe Investigation.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/01...

http://m.jsonline.com/topstories/1560656...

It looks like Walker will be taken down by the FBI John Doe probe and then "Goofy" will be the new Gov....heaven help us on that. Maybe are hubby can jump out of his seat and do some more of that voting for others not in attendance. Good to see the people of ROCK and other communities in the know & vote for Barrett AND FOR UNIONS!
For the dumb union haters...You will never get it...Not saying they ar perfect, but you are are so dumb.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/fa...

THe Middle class that support Reboublicans. Satire says it all. Thank you Bill Maher for telling what we know already.

http://planetsave.com/2012/02/27/bill-ma...

What happened that the online gazette did not print yesterdays front page headline article? "A Public Pension Problem". State and local gov'ts have 3 trillion in unfunded public pensions.

Look everyone the election's over, Walker won. If people want to vote against their own and their state's best interests, they get to. Beating the dead horse won't help. It will be great sport to watch and wait.

justsomeguy, probably about the same thing as conservatives and cabooses.

What is it with liberals and trains?

poo_koch a caboose, in your warped world, would always be first since your train like your ideals, runs backwards compared to the rest of society.

Only in warped vision land would a state law using protections and authority under the US constitution be compared to a federal that exceeds the limits of the US constitution.

RetiredCaboose, just as the caboose is the last car on the train, you always need to have the last word. So, have at it! It's all yours.

kaysbrew asked, "Will Obama be the Second with the mandate to force us into our own cliff throwing trail of tears?"

Actually, he would be the Third. Romney was the Second with a mandate. You know, that socialist healthcare program he implemented as the moderate governor with progressive views of Massachusetts called RomneyCare. Then again, maybe Newt was second and Willard Mitt third if you believe Willard Mitt...

"The idea for a healthcare plan was not mine alone. The Heritage Foundation - a great conservative think tank - helped on that. I’m told Newt Gingrich, one of the very first people who came up with the idea of an individual mandate, did that years and years ago." -Willard Mitt Romney, former governor of Massachussetts, who ran to the left of Ted Kennedy, remarking on his progressive views and the RomneyCare healthcare mandate.

"I think people recognize that I'm not a partisan Republican — that I'm someone who is moderate, and that my views are progressive." - Willard Mitt Romney

"He was running to the left of Teddy Kennedy in Massachusetts in 1994." - Newt Gingrich on Willard Mitt Romney

"He ran to the left of Ted Kennedy." - Rick Santorum on Willard Mitt Romney

Wislady, only poo_koch is allowed to run away from what they post.

Let's not forget also Wislady the Democrat submit tactics go all the way back to Andrew Jackson with the Trail of Tears. The first to outright ignore Supreme Court ruling. Will Obama be the Second with the mandate to force us into our own cliff throwing trail of tears?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ-p29xEM...

Keep em down, keep em on welfare. Keep em voting for handouts.

poobah, I admire your midguided bravery to stick to your liberal guns. No one on this site needs to run from you and the bullish thugery in Wisconsin or the rest of the states.

A table has now been set for the rest of the nation to follow.
Your Welcome rest of the nation.
On to November.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ-p29xEM...

Dems lose again.

Indeed, wislady, but you cited it and did not refute it. Don't try running away from it with some flimsy excuse now.Thats not consistent with personal responsibility, is it?

poobah

I didn't write the article.

RetiredAirForce, much like wislady, will neglect to tell you that the filibuster included a Republican senator. This was not a vote along party lines as wislady and RetiredAirForce would like you to believe, but along the line drawn between North and South. There was little opposition to the legislation other than from Southern Republicans and Southern Democrats. The legislation enjoyed heavy bipartisan support outside the Southern states from both Democrat and Republican members.

Let those "drunken marxist's" from the left, blleed! No utopian state!

Yes the fact is the democrat party tried for over 57 days in the US senate to filibuster civil rights legislation but somehow in poo_koch's mind it was the other party who didn't want the legislation...LOL

History lesson...(shame of wislady's half truths)

Of course, what wislady isn't going to tell you about this major piece of legislation is that it was called for by President Kennedy (Democrat) and signed into law after his assassination by President Johnson (Democrat). The other thing she won't tell you is that the bill received a higher percentage (and number) of votes FOR the legislation from Northern Democrats than from Northern Republicans in both the House and the Senate. The legislation also received a higher percentage (and number) of votes FOR the bill from Southern Democrats than from Southern Republicans in the House and the Senate. There were 100% of Southern Republicans AGAINST the legislation in both the House and the Senate. This was NOT a Democrat versus Republican issue as wislady's half truths would lead you to believe. The votes on this legislation were clearly drawn along a line separating Northern versus Southern House and Senate members. Data is taken from: [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Right... ]

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7% FOR, 93% AGAINST)

Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0% FOR, 100% AGAINST)

Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94% FOR, 6% AGAINST)

Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85% FOR, 15% AGAINST)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5% FOR, 95% AGAINST)

Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0% FOR, 100% AGAINST)

Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98% FOR, 2% AGAINST)

Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84% FOR, 16% AGAINST)

"Southern, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. Northern, refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states." [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Right... ]

History Lesson....(Shame of democrats)

On This Day in 1964, Democrats Filibustered the Civil Rights Act

June 10, 1964, was a dramatic day in the United States Senate. For the first time in its history, cloture was invoked on a civil rights bill, ending a record-breaking filibuster by Democrats that had consumed fifty-seven working days. The hero of the hour was minority leader Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen (R-Ill.).

On June 10, 1964, Democrats filibustered the Civil Rights Act.
Grand Old Partisan reported, via Dangerus:

On this day in 1964, Everett Dirksen (R-IL), the Republican Leader in the U.S. Senate, condemned the Democrats’ 57-day filibuster against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Leading the Democrats in their opposition to civil rights for African-Americans was Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV). Byrd, who got into politics as a recruiter for the Ku Klux Klan, spoke against the bill for fourteen straight hours. Democrats still call Robert Byrd “the conscience of the Senate.”

In his speech, Senator Dirksen called on the Democrats to end their filibuster and accept racial equality.

Michael Zak wrote about this in his book Back to Basics for the Republican Party and reminds us that Democrats, the party of Slavery, Secession, Segregation and the KKK… fought against equality.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/...

Most people have no idea this even took place. Are students taught about this in the schools today?

Definition of a Democrat - someone who thinks that attacking people is a way to persuade. They also think they can pick a turd up from the clean end.

Definition of a Republican: Will not open their mind to any other concept. Are you people just as stupid as you are today in the morning when you wake up? Yes, I'm guessing so. At least liberals will look at the other side of the equation, you republicans will not even think, it is your way or the highway. Open minds are intelligent minds, closed minds are kinda like alzheimers.

The Walker/ALEC template for Wisconsin. [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb62fpsyh... ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC_ult6-T...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzVPeO4lm...

tamrlu- I hear you, at my job, we loose 80 percent of the applicants to a 6 grade math test, and a mechanical test that is very easy. All of us only know our own reality. Trying to speak for everyone is next to impossible.

Skippy, I agree with the misconception about degrees. Just using the prison guards as an example because it is what I know. You need to have a high school diploma, driver's license for at least 2 years, pass the State exam (given every month..check online), be able to run a mile and do other physical exercises and qualify with firearms annually (though you will never carry protection of any kind during your shifts). There are other criteria too, but don't have them listed in front of me. A degree can't run a mile for anyone. If you know what I mean.

tamrlu- I agree with your statment, I understand that not all bashers were unions. When people get angry at things that happen, they should not use that anger to try to sway the other side or get their point across. That never works and is counter productive. This was the case in the recall. We must not lead our charge by feelings, rather information and reason. People should wake up and see that the union officals need to be held accountable for the way they tried to spin the recall. Unfortunately, they just continue to bash Walker, and do what the unions tell them to do. I am sorry to hear that the safety conditions for the guards are bad, I go to work daily and just know that safety is appreciated and enforced. I am not a union employee and get paid well for what I do.
Many colleges are not properly educating their students on their options out of college, they are making it sound like if you get this degree you are guaranteed a job. This is not the case and now the market in janesville and beloit are flooded with people who have degrees and there is no place to use them. This will raise the standard by which people hire. They will say you have to have a college degree to get hired. All of this is unfortunate, however, that is what you get when you give people things IE paying for their college degree. I bet nobody thought of the ramifications of doing the displaced workers program.

There is another article about teachers whining and claiming that they put their lives on the line every day just like police and firefighters! EVERYONE'S job is vital to the community, and higher wages should be based on skills and education; not seniority.

Skippy.. appreciate debate not the other stuff folks like to throw around. We as a family are pretty centric. The unions were not the only Walker bashers though. We voted to our research and beliefs. It was no good choice in our opinion. We did know as a family what was included in the job description at the time. The rules changed, and have made things even more dangerous than can be imagined. It is what it is, and it is unfortunate that many good men and women have been hurt because protections have been changed. Sorry to hear about the folks you know that cannot get in. There are tests and criteria that must be met to be able to be a guard. I don't know their situations or circumstances, so cannot make a judgement call. I just get really frustrated when folks "lump" all public employees as one. Guards were considered law enforcement until the changes. What purpose did that serve? It's just frustrating all around.

actually people left unions because there was not much left for unions to negotiate (i.e. salary increases at near 0%, no worker rights, unions have to recertify each year, etc.) so many unions did not recertify. Any idiot can write laws that creat a situation for an institution to go away and that is what Walker and his goons did. Then they could provide the talking points that you are using.

One of the best quotes I read regarding unions....."There was a time when unions corrected injustice. Now they exist only to preserve it".........

Tamrlu - Understand your frustration, however, do you go into corrections with the idea that there are not unsafe conditions. do you go into the millitary without thinking about the fact that you could go to war. The answer is no. I am not privy to all the ins and outs of the corrections facilities. Instead of just bashing Walker maybe that stuff should have been the main goal of the Unions campaigns. Get that info out in the open. How come all I heard about was the bashing of walker and the slogans of the Barrett campaign. Why did you guys not have a plan with the backing of it with information so people could make a good decision based on valuable information. I have several people that have gone to school at blackhawk for criminal justice and can not get into corrections even though they want to. Shame on you guys for not getting more information out, and just running the whole thing on hate for Walker. People say that Walker had no tact in what he did, yet you follow suit.

Public sector unions picked this fight last year. All of the protests, horn blowing, event disruptions, and capitol occupation may have made you feel good, but it made you look bad.
Many cast votes for Walker as a rejection of those tactics.

All of you doing the union bashing....we agree that the pension thing and the insurance thing were ok as far as the extra deductions went. The extra co-pays and costs were then added. You all seem to forget that not all public employees are teachers. I didn't agree with the teachers' "perks" either, but. Our household is continuing on as before, just a little less spendable income. We will survive that. The changes of the "rules" when it comes to work place safety and the way things are "handled" within the department went too far. Everyone was told that the State workers' safety "rules" as listed by the State would not change. BS that is. How many guards at the prisons need to be beaten and hospitalized because of the new rules to make people happy? How many guards must be ordered to work the next shift because there are not enough officers and higher ranks for the next shift due to understaffing.....because there are no cadets in the academies? How many people are on unemployment and will not "sign on" to work Corrections for the State?! The unions, whether you agree or disagree with them made you safer as far as the prison system went. Of course, the personal injury and possible death faced daily by the prison guards isn't worth spit in the face to some of you. What is wrong with you people that don't understand what public servants do for you?!! You have lumped them all under "teachers." That shows the short-mindedness of some folks. My husband and his partner were involved in an incident with a convict, and it was swept under the carpet and they were told to just deal with it. How many of these "incidents" have you folks heard about? There are at least 2 per week around the state. This just started happening since the rules changed. Unions not necessary? When the employer is as daft as this one with the safety changes, yes, something needs to happen for the employee. Before you start with the crap about getting a different job, why don't you?! If the public workers have it so great, why don't you try it?! The prisons are understaffed. Do your civic duty, take the tests, qualify, go through the training and get a "cushy" job where you never know what is around the next corner, and your employer does not have your back.

Isn't it funny that since the bill that Walker signed became law, that 50 percent of the people left the union. I guess that shows nothing though. I think it shows that people were getting fed up with unions being like the corporations that you dems hate so bad. It also shows that there were alot of people that by choice would rather not be in the unions. Remember, there is a choice, and nobody is being forced to get out.

The Public Sector likes to pretend that their excessive compensation benefits everyone else and that they are part of the working middle class, when, in fact, they are the Public Sector Elite, and they are at war with the Private Sector Elite. To beat the Private Sector Elite, the Public Sector Elite needs the solidarity of the former middle class in the form of votes.

Panamared said it best. We all benefited from unions. Whether directly or indirectly. Our income gap will increase as we go onward. I use (onward) because forward would mean moving ahead. Clearly, we will be going backward with wage,benefits and an increasing need to tax and spend on the backs of anyone making less than 75,000 a year. Instead of a new tax on cigarettes or beer, lets tax that 10,000 dollar bottle of wine an additional 50-75 %. That will touch the Rich. Then, and only then, will you see some outrage on their part.

Maine2010: I didn't mention bus drivers because there are no public paid bus drivers in the county which I live in. I would agree that kind of money is ridiculous for driving a bus. But the people I am talking about make nowhere near that kind of money, I am talking $30,000.00 to $45,000.00 at best.

To Westorbust:

George, the taxpayer, who works in the private sector and has seen his wages reduced by the forces of globalization, is NOT willing to put up with constant tax increases, especially property tax increases, in order to fund excessive public sector pay/benefits. Even though the market price of George's home has plummeted due to the Great Recession, his property taxes increased annually right along with public sector pay raises = extortion. The taxpayers are demanding property tax reform now!

To crazycatlady:

and you forgot to mention the public sector bus drivers earning $100,000 to $150,000 per year providing vital services to the community...

All I can say is, Heaven help us ! We are going to need it.

Westorbust..you hit the nail on the head. The seperation of the classes is becoming more evident everyday. The solution is not to continue to reward the rich...my buying power has been diminished. In order for the upper class to survive and remain wealthy they must share with the worker, or we will digress further and it will be the demise of us all. Its already happening in the European and Middle east regions. With double digit unemployment and rioting in the streets and the rich cringing in their houses. We are headed in the same direction. Greed has ruined many empires over the centuries. Will that be Americas fate as well?

Here's the difference in America today. Decades and decades ago, when unions where still on the upswing, George the worker saw that the union guys over at the other place were making more than him, so he though he should be paid that well. Today, George the worker sees union workers over a the other place and thinks, "they should make as little as I do".
Today we have the largest income inequality since before the Great Depression, end of story. What we have is a shared hallucination that the wealthy are the "real" job creators and thusly, deserve all manner of tax breaks, guaranteed low paid workforce, and corporate handouts. The reality is that there is no economy if people (largely the middle class) are not buying things. Right now, they aren't buying things, and no tax breaks, or corporate handouts are going to change that. End of story.
So, what Wisconsinites did was give the green light, one again, to corporatism, and magical thinking, praying that something, anything, will work. If you throw enough "stuff" at a wall, eventually some of it sticks. That's what we have now.

A letter of thanks to the left.

http://www.620wtmj.com/blogs/charliesyke...

Maine2010 please try to remember that not all public employees are school teachers or state employees (though I hardly see why that matters to you) Many are county & city employees who have already been paying for their health insurance/retirement benefits long before this fight. They are the ones who are changing your 90 year old grandma's diaper, wiping the spit off their face from the 19 year old drunk derelict who knows not what he is doing & has been incarcerated for being just plain stupid, plowing the snow off the road so that you can drive to work in the morning after 12 inches of snow.

PART II - Uproar in Wisconsin:
Public workers are quick to point out that they are better educated than their private counterparts, and when you adjust for education, they actually make slightly less. This ignores the fact that most of those public workers at the state level are school teachers. If it's unfair to compare college-educated and high school-educated workers, it's also unfair to compare education and engineering majors. All college degrees aren't the same. State and Federal governments absorb more than their fair share of "soft" degrees.

In the bleak fiscal landscape of our nation's future, public sector pay isn't really the problem. It's those benefits. Public employees get defined-benefits retirement programs, while the vast majority of private employers offer defined-contribution programs. The former guarantee you a certain level of income; the latter collect set contributions from employees with no guarantees of any particular return. In the case of Wisconsin's public employees, defined benefits come with no contribution from the workers—none at all—years and decades of income for free, or if you prefer, for the extra income those teachers and sociologists could get if they worked for private firms in Milwaukee and Green Bay.

Some public employees in New York and California are retiring at 50 with $100,000 pensions and more. In some cases they get these pensions after only a few years on the job, though it's rare to become vested with fewer than ten years of service. Unfunded public pension liabilities across the country are at the very least in the trillions of dollars, the numbers varying hugely depending on how strict the accounting standards you apply happen to be. According to the standards businesses use, it's estimated they double our national debt. These pension liabilities are a loaded gun aimed at every statehouse in the country, at hundreds of cities and thousands of towns.

Asking public sector employees in Wisconsin to contribute a 5.8% of their pay into their pensions (the national average for the private sector) is probably the very least the state's taxpayers should ask. Asking them to pay 12% of their health insurance costs (about half the national average for the private sector) is also a minimal demand. Neither seems sufficient provocation to compare Walker to Hitler or pretend that Madison is Cairo.

Most of us would be delighted to get what the Wisconsin public employees will be offered under Walker's plan. We don't empathize strongly with people who get raises during recessions (as Federal workers have) and who get retirement benefits that we have to pay for. We shouldn't begrudge public workers a decent wage and a fair pension, but public workers are only a privileged class in places like Egypt and France.

NATCHITOCHES, La.—February 18, 2011—The uproar in Wisconsin is just one skirmish in a battle over public-sector pay, and part of a broader war that will be fought in state-houses across the country over the next two decades.

Wisconsin Gov. Walker and his proposals to deal with the state budget deficit have drawn criticism from President Obama. Ed Schultz of MSNBC's "Ed Show" is now reporting from Madison as if he were on Tahrir Square, and protestors are comparing Walker and the GOP to mullahs, Mubarak, Mussolini and Hitler. Targets drawn on the governor's face? Who knew that liberals did that sort of thing. So much for civil discourse.
Opponents to the governor's bill to eliminate collective bargaining rights for many state workers protest in the rotunda of the State Capitol in Madison, Wis., Friday, Feb. 18, 2011.

Opponents to the governor's bill to eliminate collective bargaining rights for many state workers protest in the rotunda of the State Capitol in Madison, Wis., Friday, Feb. 18, 2011.

The ghastliness that has provoked such loathing boils down to this: Walker proposes to make state employees pay into their retirement program (they now pay nothing), increase their share of their health insurance payments to 12% (they now pay 6%), and restrict their rights of collective bargaining to pay, not benefits.

Public employees earn more than their private-sector counterparts. This is true from Washington on down. Federal employees earn an average of $120,000 in pay and benefits, double the private sector average. The disparity is less at the state level, but in Wisconsin the average full-time state employee earns over $70,000 in pay and benefits, about $15,000 more than the average private-sector employee.

How much do you have to make to be middle class ?

Divide and conquer appears to be a matter of perspective. Wasn't it the dem leaders leaving the state an attempt to divide and conquer. Wasn't it the union puppet masters trying to divide and conquer the state by calling for this expensive and wasteful recall nonsense. Isn't divide and conquer really the goal of every political campaign anywhere regardless of party. Every political race has a winner and a loser. Get over it once and for all.

Divide and conquer is the vision. Forward! Thank you Scott Walker!

bill,
My wife is not a teacher. She is a public employee of the State of Wisconsin.

whythink stated "WRONG, the reason is simple...
Social Workers, Correctional Officers, Teachers, and ALL other Public Employees ARE HARD-WORKING MIDDLE-CLASS TAXPAYERS. That message was lost and that is big reason why low-information voters elected Walker."
-
Yes they are! They are now free to choose what they want, paying for a union or not; hardly a bad thing.

To copy my friend V -

(This comment was forcibly extracted by the site staff)

WT really? There is a major difference between working for a company by choice in exchange for a wage vs. collecting your wage from tax payers and have dues forcibly extracted from your paycheck.
Good point bowlgal to see that money go into the hands of the people they are suppose to protect you from which is our government. Jeez, get a grip minority voters.

Thank you Wisconsin for seeing that fact and making this a loser for the liberals to the point they couldn't run with it anymore in the campaign.

Why_Think, how could your wife not have gotten a raise in 10 years? Using just the search function on the GazetteXtra, I found that teacher's salaries in Janesville increased 3.31 percent in each cell of the salary schedule in 2007 and 3.5 percent in 2008-09 and that they increased 1.5 percent for 2011-12 and will increase 2 percent in 2012-13. Are you sure you are as informed as you say you are????

As for the Citizens United argument, that's the law of the land. Moaning about it isn't going to change anything. Democrats have been trying to restrict contributions to Republicans for decades. Every time they do, either the Supreme Court tosses their laws out or the contributors find a legal way around it. Besides, if your side's billionaires wouldn't pony up as much scratch as the Republican's billionaires, whose fault is that? Rather than complain that your side can't match the other side's resources, why doesn't your side figure out why they can't match the other side's resources? Perhaps a change of message and/or method is called for, rather than imposing yet another attempt at their idea of fairness, which inevitably ends up being what's fair for them? Maybe that's why the Democrats have so much trouble getting election reform past the Supreme Court.

By the way, whatever the Mayor of Chicago did or didn't do, you can't deny how our own Teacher's Union here in Janesville has refused to help the school board with it's deficit problem. But at least your wife has seniority enough to keep her job regardless of whether or not she should. At least until 2013 anyway.

Libertbelle, it's simple. Unions need financial support from employees, they in turn give that money to Democrats (or Republicans)to help vote them into office to promote more pro-worker legislation. Businesses do the exact same thing. They give money to Democrats (or Republicans)to help vote them into office to promote more pro-business legislation. I support both concepts to work equally together unhindered by the other. When one issues a war against the other we have a serious problem. I also support the concept of public campaign financing so private money will have less influence on elections, candidates or legislation. Do you support public campaign financing or are you only attacking one side of the problem?

belle,
Public unions as I see it take from the hard worker, and give that money to the Democrats (or Republicans)to help vote them into office. How can they be for the hard working American when they are sitting across the table from the person they just gave money too???
.
I would ask the same thing of Diane Hendricks. How can she support the hard-working American when she pays 0 income tax and is able to have "private" conversations with the governor?

bill,
The Mayor of Chicago did the financial part of Act 10. It wasn't popular but it was done without any recall.
.
Fitzgerald said it best on Fox and Friends. He stated that President Obama would have a more difficult time being re-elected if the unions were weakened in WI.
.
BTW, if the public unions are so strong why have people like my wife not received a raise in 10 years? The only wage increases she has received was through job changes/promotions. Tommy Thompson was the last governor to give raises to the great workers in WI.
.
This, and the entire anti-union fight by the republicans is about POLITICS. it isn't about freedom, capitalism, socialism, democracy, or anything but politics. The unions are the largest contributors to the democrats. The supreme court... Citizen's United.
.
The combination of weakened unions and Citizen's United = greater power for republicans and conservatives. That is why this was done. It was never about the budget, freedom, capitalism, democracy or the taxpayers.
.
It is that simply. BTW, I used to be a WMD republican and until I turned of Rush and Fox didn't realize how ignorant and misinformed I was. Thinking for myself and doing research led me to being a progressive who is often left with democrats as the better option. EXAMPLE: the biggest LOSER in this entire recall process, our President. He better start kissing babies and butt ASAP to make up for hanging hard-working, middle-class taxpayers in WI out to dry. I am not the only person in this state that would likely, if the election was today, leave the presidental selection BLANK!

Bowlgal
Jun 8, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.

Also, what kind of Government do you have when the people need a representive against them.
Public unions as I see it take from the hard worker, and give that money to the Democrats (or Republicans)to help vote them into office. How can they be for the hard working American when they are sitting across the table from the person they just gave money too???

I doubt very much you'll get an answer. Good question. My answer? You can't. It's a money laundering scam.

helge, for those of you that like watching movies at home, don't throw away that old VCR. Some things serve their purpose, then we move on.

It's clear that the Democrats and their supporters are now running against capitalism. The have, for a long time, been trying to substitute equality of opportunity which capitalism thrives on with equality of outcome, the very soul of socialism. They seem to believe that providing freebies at the expense of "the rich" to as many as they can is the best way to secure political power. Unionism apparently embraces that strategy as well. They seem dumbfounded that the people of Wisconsin seem to have voted against their own self interest by reaffirming Governor Walker in the recall. They assume that the majority are just to stupid to "get it". They seem baffled that most of us still embrace capitalism, free markets and equality of opportunity as opposed to their utopian concepts of fairness. The fact is, they don't "get it". They really thought they represented 99% of us. They seem quite shocked that they came up 52% short of that.

Another overlooked fact is that the majority of the people of Wisconsin realize that the public employee unions were too powerful. When Act 10 first became known, the union leaders all claimed that Act 10 wasn't needed, that the unions were willing to negotiate concessions to help the state with its deficit. But our own experiences with the Janesville Teacher's Union prove that their willingness to concede anything was a lie. Without Act 10, and Janesville's newly signed labor contract negated Act 10 for Janesville's public schools, the unions had no reason to concede and would never have done so to any real effect just as Janesville's Teachers have also refused.

Now the Obama administration is releasing Top Secret information. If he can't be Commander in chief, he should step down. At least be voted out in November.

why think - why don't you answer my question then. I switched parties to Republican and didn't realize how much I didn't know as a Democrat voter.
Holder quote: Fast and furious doesn't mean Fast and furious
Pelosi quote: Catholic churches don't represent Catholic churches.
Obama's Green jobs: Oil Barrons and used record dealers.
This is insanity.

RetiredAirForce
Jun 8, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.
Suggest removal The biggest WINNERS in this result are those hardworking middle class tax payers in Wisconsin. The old saying, "Don't treat the symptom, instead find the cause" is becoming even more factual in the Badger state. And a sad reality is that most Walker's haters are too ignorant to realize what is happening is for the benefit of the state in the long run.
.
WRONG, the reason is simple...
Social Workers, Correctional Officers, Teachers, and ALL other Public Employees ARE HARD-WORKING MIDDLE-CLASS TAXPAYERS. That message was lost and that is big reason why low-information voters elected Walker.

Collective Bargaining is not permitted on the Federal level. FDR didn't want it. Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, and yes Obama have done nothing to change that. The Federal Government does not have to balance a budget as states do. Why should we expect states to bare the burden the Federal Gov will not?

Also, what kind of Government do you have when the people need a representive against them.
Public unions as I see it take from the hard worker, and give that money to the Democrats (or Republicans)to help vote them into office. How can they be for the hard working American when they are sitting across the table from the person they just gave money too???

For those that dislike unions make sure you sign off on all wages & benifits that the union got fot he other employs

http://vocalminority.typepad.com/blog/20...

God bless the USA and our freedoms that allow the left to still post losing messages on this site.
By the way, the middle class loses under Obama in gas prices, grocery bills, tax hikes, and infringements and failed economic policies.
SCOTT WALKER FOR PRESIDENT

@setinmyways and RetiredAirForce: WELL SAID!!

The biggest WINNERS in this result are those hardworking middle class tax payers in Wisconsin. The old saying, "Don't treat the symptom, instead find the cause" is becoming even more factual in the Badger state. And a sad reality is that most Walker's haters are too ignorant to realize what is happening is for the benefit of the state in the long run.

There is no "right" to work in the Constitution.

How many $$$$$$$$ to be middle class

usaret, I am not a mind reader and expecting someone to guess what others meant to say instead of taking their words at face value in this environment is like asking a person to walk through a minefield. No thanks.

Poobah: Quit trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. You know that is not what I meant. Now, let's move on to tomorrow instead of wallowing in yesterday. Is that too hard to understand?

kaysbrew, in your excitement to cheer on the $2.5 billion in lost worker wages under Walker, which by the way impacts individual freedoms, you were hearing voices. Conservative (moderate and liberal) government in America aka economic elitism is the greatest threat to individual freedoms we face. Quite the conflicted position - conservative government and individual freedom.

setin,

You are entitled to you own opinion but not your own facts. Don't confuse private sector unions with public sector unions. The distinction is critical-minors working in coal mines in West VA were likely to die in mining accidents-unions stepped in and forced owners to make the working conditions more safe-this was 1910-not 2010. But this was a private sector union.

No one in the public sector unions are dying in their cubicle. This is a political issue-not an issue of safety. The middle class certainly existed before unions and unions do not create wealth-except for those who run the union.

Set, if you truly were a student of history, you would concede the point that at one time US steele and Gm were the largest and most powerful companies in their industry-what has happened? During their heyday-40 years ago-GM has since been replaced by Toyota US steel is no longer the worlds largest and coal has been replaced by oil. HUndreds of thousands of union UAW members have lost their jobs-tell me- is there a UAW branch in operation at the long since shuttered GM plant locally? I would not be surprised if there were-how does the member who lost his job 3 years ago benefit from the Union steward today? Who pays that union employees salary?

Maybe you are 120 years old and remember how dangerous coal mining was-or maybe you simply cannot distinguish the difference between public sector unions and private sector unions.

The biggest losers in this result are those who make up the remains of the middle class in Wisconsin. The old saying, "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is becoming even more factual in the Badger state. And a sad reality is that a share of Walker's supporters were from this very group, but too ignorant to realize what is happening to them.

Some 25 years ago, I wanted to be a teacher. Then, between my junior and senior year, our teachers went on strike. I understood it, but didn't like it. I thought, I would be a scab. That changed my career path forever, and I'm glad it did. I have been free to make my own path, my own decisions, and have been more successful because of it.

poobah,
I am a cheerleader for conservative government and individual freedom. Sorry to hear you are against that.

Maine2010, wrong party to your suit. Try property taxpayers vs. the economic elitists who own Walker, Ryan, Romney (who is an elitist but still gets paid off), Obama and all the others.

I guess there are no history fans here. Long ago, before unions, the workers made a mere pitance and the buisness owners were making great wealth. The middle class did not exist. Unions have become protection for bad workers and have lost their true meanings. If history is not learned, it will repete itself. God help the working poor, for the middle class will be no more.

When property values plummet, property taxes are supposed to decrease, but because public sector workers used their political connections through the unions to give themselves raises, even right through the Great Recession, property taxes were actually increased year after year. Those that could afford it, hired lawyers to try to get their property taxes decreased. A class action lawsuit: Property Taxpayers of Wisconsin vs. Public Sector most certainly would be appropriate to end the extortionist tactics of the public sector. Hopefully the Recall victory of Scott Walker will bring about Property Tax Reform so that the real estate market can recover.

Oh come on, RetiredAirForce, don't be so bitter because kaysbrew beat you out for the lead cheerleader of the Race to the Bottom squad. I'm sure she deserved it. You aren't thinking of recalling her, are you?

"I guess we know who the leader of the race to the bottom cheerleading squad is."
-
Yes we do! It is those that consistantly want more from others via a faux claim of fairness and equality.

I guess we know who the leader of the race to the bottom cheerleading squad is.

poobah
keep trying to pedal that losing message.
Liberals who want to keep digging deeper into your pocketbook will always tell you "you don't make enough money" because they want it.
Thank GOD for Walker who wants less of what I earn and expects others to earn what they want and not expect to take and take.

kaysbrew, wislady, kleej and others uninformed about the $2.5 BILLION lost in wages last year under Walker will keep talking about unions as a way to avoid and deny the real drain on Wisconsin worker's pocketbooks. The race to the bottom in wages and benefits that is the Walker agenda has begun. The baton in that race has just been passed from Mississippi to Wisconsin and we see all the Walker cheerleaders screaming and waving their flags as their wages and benefits take another average loss of $936 per year. Victory, they scream! We won, you lost, they cheer! Fact is, the average wages lost by the 2.7 MILLION workers in Wisconsin last year while they were cheering Walker was $936.

How many time did the state give money to Gm to stay , even changing the hy for them
over many years
If the state would have keep giving money they would have stayed
So it was not only the unions that helped GM make up their mind to move
w is giving co. money & this type of stuff will go on no matter who is in power in Madison co. will come & go just lkie they have always done. seems most people that post here are more then happy to look down on others . pick on each other then to see that those in power are only out for their selfs not any one else. that is BOTH PARTYS

wiggle, poobah other uninformed about teachers union. wiggle complaining about wages. Are you aware that they had a cap on teachers? A good teacher couldn't get merit pay for her/his outstanding performance before act 10? Stuck at the level that the unions dictated not the quality of the teacher. That is gone now and so will bad teachers so eventually the good will prevail. Quality education and quality schools.
You will only hear from the not so good teachers who are worried about their jobs. The good ones will push forward and care for our children and they love it for the rewards and not the 5% they now have to contribute.

The recall was about Act 10...make no mistake. It was not about the children, nor everyone paying their fair share. It was about unions who want to control the state.

The True Impact of Act 10

"For all of the hand-waving and drum-beating and recalling we have seen at the
Capitol (and unfortunately the dead-enders seem unfazed by the results of June 5th) you
would have thought Act 10 tossed public employees and their mothers out on the streets."

http://thewheelerreport.com/releases/Jun...

@Kleej : that's really good!

The union's loss will be this country's biggest blessing. People will actually have to step out on their own a little bit and think for themselves. That's why the democrat's & the union are so synonymous with each other. They don't want people to do any critical thinking. Their bread & butter is people feeling they need to rely on them to do it for them.

Walker Cost Unions A Fortune

http://www.westernjournalism.com/walker-...

Its humorous to read and interesting to see how the losing lefties are trying to justify their HUGE mistake and bigger loss. They really, really just don't get it.....lol

Did anyone else catch the clip on the Oriely Factor of the libreral crying after they lost? One of the funniest things I have seen in a long time :D. Also the aide slapping Barret was pretty funny too! LOL!

Heldge1939- Is that right? The union wasn't good enough to keep the GM plant in Janesville going was it? So I chose to move on without GM. Since then, my income has increased and I'm much happier because I don't need to be a puppet to the union or anyone else. You see, it forced me to stretch myself and work to get better. The only people who are pro- union are the people in the union because it's all about their best interest and screw everyone else. It's all about take, take, take "because we're entitled", That's the truth and it's sad so many are blind to it.

do you like the word dislike better

All is lost when you have to claim "hate", this is just laughable.

For those that hate unions remember when they are gone like some wish, your spendable income will go down
So hate as much as you can to make your self happy
All of you have a very nice day

"Scott Walker's History Exposes A Dark..."

http://www.politicususa.com/scott-walker...

YKM stated "Only haters target another group for extermination and the greedy want to destroy unions."
-
Nice rhetoric, extermination, really is that what happened? Thankfully the law has been changed to allow the tax payer to be protected from an out of control arbitration and contract process from public unions. Making claims of extermination fit right up your alley of false rhetoric, but the reality is the process was broken and desperately needed repair. Feel free to keep your head in the ground and ignore the problems. Thankfully there are people in this nation that have had enough and are sick of asking for repairs and are now making those much needed changes.

It's also somehow fitting that 'Wisconsin' gets to be the state that initiated corporate fascist rule.

It's somehow fitting that 'Wisconsin' gets to be the state that initiated the END of public unions.

kleej... In my studies of the Constitution, the idea of corporations being considered persons is in no way, shape, or form in it. Was that the Democrats? Um, no. Both sides have plenty of blame. Accept the fact.

maybe you all need a lesson in what it means majority rules http://www.annenbergclassroom.org/term/m...

Big BIG loss for the public unions. A transition is taking place - from careless government spending to fiscal responsibility. That doesn't leave much room for public unions to operate and will ultimately spell their doom.

The recall election was worth every dime spent .

Exactly. It's called following principle. The U.S. Constitution doesn't even exist in the democrat's world! They all want their utopia and screw the rest. A bunch of drunken marxists! The republican's don't have all the answers, but, they at least know how to spell "CONSTITUTION".

Isn't it time you union haters take your clown outfit and goose-stepping dance to North Korea? I've heard they're into union busting, one-party rule and a majority single wage class. You could be king there. Only haters target another group for extermination and the greedy want to destroy unions.

totellthetruth
Jun 7, 2012 at 9:47 p.m.
Employers will pay real employees better than union idiots.
Really?
Seriously, you believe that?
example-
women works in retail at same co. for 3 years, sometimes 12 hour days to cover those who don't come in, hard worker, out sells anyone on her shift hands down. Makes ok money. A newbie comes, lazy, doesn't do what is required, doesn't care if she sells any product to make the owner money, takes long breaks and so on. Who do you think makes more per hour? Yup, you guessed it, miss newbie.
Oh I forgot, newbie is the owners bff's daughter.
Sorry honey, if you lived in the real world where ceo's 'trim the fat' outta your pay to get an extra mil that year to pay walker for his back rub, you would see American workers will be getting poorer while corps hand out billion dollar bonuses to the guy sitting behind a desk figuring out who's back he has to rub to get min wage lowered.

winstonchill said, "...people need to get their priorities right. If they did, they could live on less than minimum wage. They just don't see it."

The goals of the conservative race to the bottom agenda for America are becoming more and more clear with every passing day.

Admit it. Wisconsin died on Tuesday.

kleej said, "poobah, seriously?? Read the headline of the article again! As I said, Amen, it's called progress!"

I didn't write the headline, kleej!

kleej, I was a union member, mandatory, while doing a summer job at a union shop. That is my only union membership - six months over two summers. I have owned four businesses, selling all but one over 15 years ago and retiring for all intent and purposes at that time -- at a young age. I spent 6 years in college obtaining my masters degree in electrical engineering, working my way through without any assistance from the government or student loans. I often worked 18 hour days in my businesses and every day of the week. I don't need you lecturing me about unions or about hard work or education. If you want to spew your hatred for unions to someone, I'm not that person.

poobah, seriously?? Read the headline of the article again! As I said, Amen, it's called progress!

kleej, please STOP with the union droning. I am NOT THE ONE who brought up the UNION. Take it elsewhere.

poobah, I would've lost my job with GM had I followed the union! So I didn't. Everyone has a choice. The difference is, people need to figure out where there priorities lie. There's plenty of people who also left GM that I keep in touch with that are making less money than they were before and everyone one of them now see that it's not all about the almighty dollar and how much you can squeeze out of a company so you can live materialistically. There's something out there called family. It comes first. And don't give me the usual comeback that people need the unions so they can provide for their family. Nothing wrong with making a living, but you can be happy without a GM income. There's something called being a slave to money. We've all been trained in society to be just that. Doesn't mean we have to! If you don't believe that, if you had to choose between your union job or your loved one's, which one would you pick??!! :-)

I have always done my job above & beyond what my employer asked for
always giving 100per cent
For those of you that think you get a free ride just by being a union member you are full of bull
Allyou people do on these blogs do is try to make the other person look up to you as a god

vatoloco said, "Millions lost their jobs, houses, cars, benefits, etc.......at least the folks you talked about kept their jobs."

Yes, exactly! Want to talk about the average loss in wages of $936 per worker last year under Walker AND all of those who lost their jobs as well, vatoloco? Why don't you give us some facts and figures on those who completely lost their jobs and wages?

By the way K & T
Have a nice day

Better to be a union thug then a walker brown bagger
some on here like k are trying to control every thing & every one just like w & co. did you not get told not to tell people to SHUT UP when a child
control yourself (K )

Crazycat- that's what the union does. Just like big government, they want people to become reliant on them! People don't need the union to pursue the American dream. Infact, they hinder people from it.

I was taught to give it your best effort, then win with grace or lose with dignity. I am sorry that those values have apparently been lost by both parties. To put things into perspective, check out what is going on in Syria and many other parts of the world. Our political disagreements are miniscule compared to theirs. We need to work it out, together. JMO

She can if she become Govener

Thank you thank you thank you, you couldn't hold back. You couldn't restrain yourselves and behave like adults. You couldn't accept the 2010 election results. We sat and watched as you erupted in a juvenile hissy fit that embarrassed Wisconsin. The spectacle you created is what motivated us. And thanks to your pathetic behavior, we won. We turned out. Big time! And now we are organized and energized. Committed. "All in". And we aren't going away. We now have our own organizations (no dues required), an army of volunteers and the means to communicate. And countless new sources of funding, including a donor base from all 50 states. And we have "iverifythe recall" to ferret out your infiltrators in our future local elections.

Union jobs though tend to drive up wages for all jobs in the same geographic area, ie if a private employer in a company that has no union is fully aware that his workers could qualify for better paying jobs at the company next door, he is more likely to reward his own employees with better pay & benefits to keep qualified individuals working for his company. Without unions & without worker's rights, how long do you really believe it will be before we are all working for minimum wage?

You just made my point. I didn't need fhe union to attach a wage to me that was the same as everyone else. I wanted more out of life and had the freedom to do that. So guess what I did? I made it happen without the union! Imagine that? You're absolutely right, everyone shouldn't make the same. Especiallly a handful of deadbeats I witnessed at GM robbing the company blind, only to have the union "take care of them" , while the majority of the workers down there gave it their all and earned what they got. The union folks act just like the liberals in big government. They want to penalize the hard workers and coddle the lazy. Time for people to do some soul searching cuz big daddy union isn't gonna be there to pick em up every time they fall! It's called being responsible.

(This comment was recalled by the site staff)

jv93 =
- I read your link.
"Walker was able to make the case that years of corrupt union-politician back-scratching had been bankrupting the state"
What about all the corrupt corps buying politicians? I know walker has been 'scratching backs' for years. Do you think the state will grow with big corps not paying taxes? walker says he has a surplus, which was money to pay back loans but walker just put the loans on a credit card to be paid at a later date. What happens when the date comes and walker has givin the surplus to big business and now what? Who do you think will have to pay the bill? walker? the big business who haven't paid taxes in years?
Corrupt politicians are just replacing one thug for another. Smart! Real smart!

Kleej
Jun 7, 2012 at 7:57 p.m
"The teachers, the autoworkers, the pipefitters (God bless 'em all) but, they're not entitled to anymore the next person"
-
So all doctors should charge the same amount? All teachers should be paid the same wage?
So a plumber for GM shouldn't make as much as a plumber working for a construction company?
Let me ask you this, WHO decides what is the max pay for certain jobs? We have a federal min wage, are you saying we should do away with that and have a max wage? What God do you think is all knowning to set the max a store clerk should make so one isn't paid more than another? Do you think the 9, 10, 11, mil a CEO makes at one company might upset another CEO making 8 mil? Who decides the max on their salaries?

Since the Gazette does not see fit to run his column at this time. Thought I'd post it. It's spot on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/c...

hdonlybob
Jun 7, 2012 at 3:59 p.m.
Suggest removal

I agree hdonlybob. The Democrats lost the election in Wisconsin just like the Republican’s lost the presidential election in 2008. Now we need to rally around the Wisconsin leader in the same manner that all the Republican’s, Tea Partiers, leaders such as John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, and TP leaders Jim DeMint and Rand Paul have been and continue to support the president. Right? You got it. Let me know if your want some clips for your review? Thanks!

usaret, are you suggesting that 2.7 million Wisconsin workers losing an average of $936 per year in 2011 under Walker means nothing? That's $2.5 billion in lost wages statewide. That means nothing?

Kleej, your comment is aimed at the wrong person. It was not I who took this off on the union branch. Check back and aim your comment in the right direction - TCB. My comments were about employer provided pensions and retiree healthcare benefits and I said nothing about unions until TCB brought up the AFSCME.

This was not a union issue until TCB's mention of the union.

This quote about union members vividly demonstrates the effect that $30 million worth of campaign propaganda has had on Walker supporters, "There is no reason to assume that the members will receive cuts in salary and benefits."

Wisconsin voted. Walker Won. Now, let's move on. Most of what has been said here has been said for the last 14 months and it is getting old, boring and means nothing.

poobah, I was an autoworker at one time in Janesville myself. You can stop with the entitlement garbage. There's plenty of opportuntiy out there. I, nor anyone else needs the union to dictate my future. The proof is in the pudding. The world doesn't need the union thugs taking and taking anymore. There was a day when the unions stood for something. Today, it's all about them. The unions are merely another example of how twisted the liberal mindset is. The teachers, the autoworkers, the pipefitters (God bless 'em all) but, they're not entitled to anymore the next person. Case closed.

winstonchill, you're quite right. 2.7 million Wisconsin workers losing an average of $936 in wages in 2011 under Walker is progress...in the race to the bottom. Great progress. Let's see if Walker can improve on that progress in 2012 with Wisconsin workers losing even MORE than $2.5 BILLION in wages during 2012. All of the Walker supporters will have to have a parade, don their tri-cornered hats and fire up the drum and fife corps.

TCB, I'm not a victim of Walker. I am speaking for those that are. You still can't deny the fact that even AFSCME members you cited who quit paying dues have lost $24 per year under Walker, and more to come without a doubt. And that's just 35,000 of 2.7 MILLION workers in Wisconsin. The other 2.665 MILLION workers lost an average of $936 under Walker's first year. Calling someone a victim can't dispel the facts.

poobo,

Stop being the victim - if you can for 1 second. There is no reason to assume that the members will receive cuts in salary and benefits. Those who quit the union received a nice 1.5% increase in pay. Again, there are no jobs for life-evole or go the way of the dinosaur-unless you are a tenured professor.

TCB, so 34,073 AFSCME members only lost $24 per year under Walker's first year according to your math instead of the $936 the other 2,665,927 workers lost. I can imagine you're bursting with pride over that. Of course, your math doesn't consider the cuts in pay and benefits that AFSCME workers will suffer once Walker goes after them like he did teachers.

Can one person from the left provide one creditable source that isn't a blog opinion on John Doe? This is like the Obama birthers. If you think birthers are crazy, look in the mirror.

helge1939

Kleefisch can not be recalled again, either.

I cast a vote for myself. So did another friend so I'm slightly disappointed that my name wasn't mentioned even one time in all of the reports but it is what it is. I guess two votes isn't newsworthy. I didn't vote for Walker either time, but he is our governor and I will fully support him and I truly hope his policies bring jobs to Wisconsin. Good luck gov'na!!

Helge was that you slapping mayor barrett and yelling "we should have put Falk in"....that was you wasn't it?

Pooba

Think of the 50% of AFSCM members in wisconsin have dropped their membership-each of these-no longer will these fine people be forced to pay union dues-they can freely choose to be a member and pay dues or they can drop the union and receive a raise which if you ear 60K per year-you just got a $912 raise!

@helge:you-LOST. Please SHUT UP

when mr w goes to jail & miss k is gov. then we can recall her & win

So if this John Doe thing comes to a conviction, will there be all of this crap again? Just the other way around? It's still "My daddy can beat the stuffing outta your daddy, and you're a liar" It's time for the crowing, chest beating and boasting from the "winning" side to stop. That only makes things continue. Stop it and grow up...both "sides"....The Governor says it's time to regroup...follow the leader.

"Nation's unions lost big in the Wisconsin showdown"

The nation lost big in the Wisconsin showdown. The baton has been passed from Mississippi to Wisconsin in the race to the bottom. Economic elitists pay people like Walker, Ryan, Romney (well Romney is an economic elitist but they still pay him) and Obama to implement their policies that reduce benefits and wages. And the sad part is, we have many Americans who buy their story about the need to remain competitive, etc. etc. in the global market that the elitists designed, manage and extract their wealth from. Many Americans buy it hook, line and sinker - and certainly most conservatives buy it.

Whose benefits and wages are next? Last year under Walker, the average Wisconsin worker lost $936 in wages. That over $2.5 billion of lost wages in just one year and one state. Why should anyone expect the downward spiral of wages and benefits to stop with public union employees when 1/2 the state applauds the governor and the policies he was paid to implement by the economic elitists? Do you really think economic elitists see any difference between public union employees and private sector employees?

Ok, let's hold our breath until this person gets arrested and charged with felonies.

City of Milwaukee Employee Uses Work Email for Liberal Get Out the Vote Efforts

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2012/06/...

Sure, lets take away the deserved pensions of the public sector workers so they have to work longer. Just what i want, some 70 year old cop or firefighter showing up to help me in an emergency. Oh wait a minute, it has been proven that many of the retired public sector workers die young of heart attacks and other ailments due to their jobs. So, never mind, they will just all die soon anyway.

"The poll indicated that OVER half of those voting supported unions but were against the recall"

Polls do not elect people. But, if you were trying to make a point...I will help you.

Democrats started this the day Walker was elected. They had no accomplishments to run on, depending on dividing the people to win the election. The majority of the people are smart enough to see the results. Walker was elected fairly, and deserved to finish his term. The people have spoken again....RESOUNDINGLY. The days of the unions (minority of Wisconsin workers) telling the rest of Wisconsin what to do, are over.

Walker won, get over it.

spark and tcb, you guys sound like the sore losers. I provided some factual information regarding the recall but you both seem to confuse them with excuses. If you both want to pretend the Republicans aren't controlled by special interests that's entirely up to you. Those who live in real world know otherwise. This was one election, that's all. In a couple years there will be another election and voters can once again decide if Walkers plans to decimate public education funding, eliminate environmental protections and shift wealth from the middle class to the wealthy works or not. Personally I'd like to see ALL out of State money eliminated from campaigns. The campaign should be about whats best for WI, not Walkers future ambitions.

spark, the vast increases in GDP since 1980 have not been shared by wage-earners; they have mainly gone to the 1% of the population, while real wages have remained flat for an entire generation. Now, who is it who makes too much again?

dmfd24 - Far from the truth.

Union employees don't make to much money. Non union employees just don't make enough money.

I generally have tried to be positive in my comments about this recall, and all who have seen my posts can see that.
I have wished the opposition well many times and did so the eve of the election, as well as posted that if Walker lost, I would live with it. And I am a big Walker supporter, that gave zero $$$ to his campaign.
Also have stated that this is behind us, and time to move on...
I am rather surprised now that the vote was stronger for Walker than his opponent again that this crap is still going on...Now it is "Oh Yah, he bought this election" and "Well it was all out of state big corporations money" and blah blah blah..
Hey folks, you lost again on this, so enough with the excuses...
Also an interesting observation....Where was all the big National Union support and $$$??? Hmmmmm (guess they are saving their $$$ for the Presidential Election).....and more than that, where was your Democratic President when you needed his support ???
OH GOSH...I FORGOT...he did "TWEET" his support for your guy...Now the Democrats interviewed when asked this question are saying "Well that was a local issue...not ours" Bahahahah..what a bunch of poop that is.
Something is wrong here, and if I remember correctly a lot of people were whining that Obama "Bought the Presidential Election"....Hmmmm again...
You supporters of Barrett that are still working were let down BIG TIME by your Unions on this major defeat in Wisconsin...
And as for that moron Ed Shultz from the Ed Show...he is just showing how stupid he really is with all this rambling on about it after it is over...take a breath ED....Your presence in Madison was farce... (again)
Time to admit that you got beat.. fair and square, however you want to cut the pie.
Just saying folks...

Does everyone notice how the left Washington politicians are now saying how stupid these recalls were?
Because Obama is keeping what's left of the money and not giving any to the local races. Millions poured into Wisconsin to test everything from the bogus war on women to Walker has a love child. I do believe the liberals are going down in a big BIG landslide in November. Bigger then 2010. Because we will get the big fish and they didn't get Walker.

PanamaRed - Oh and by the way. Governor Doyle took over 32 percent of his contributions from out of state. During that time the most of any Governor on record. Like most liberal arguments, I wanted to point out the hypocrisy of said argument.

pred,

Polling information? Really? Was this the same exit polls that CNN gleefully announced that the race was tied-though at no time since April had the race been split and then only an hour later-the race had been called for Walker?

DOnt confuse the issue-I don't have any issue with unions or union members-and if I were asked I would have said the issue was the with the recall process itself as well-the losing issue is with big labor and its tactics. Do you really think that teachers are any different than the rest of the public? Or do assume that 98% of all teachers or auto workers or municipal employees or food workers are democrats-because this is where their PAC contributions go ? Or like America are they split? Only an idiot believes they are 98% dems.

Corporations? You realize the teachers union is a corporation or are you this stupid? The UAW is a corporation-please tell me you knew this? Unions sell labor-MIcrosoft sells software-

Obama knew Barrett wouldn't win, that's why he sent Bill into do his dirty work.

PanamaRed - After a failed recall, you lost again and you are still on here posting with some of the other liberals about why you lost. Those my friend, are the ones making excuses. President Obama didn't even get involved and support Barrett and this recall. Those that wanted the recall, voted for the same failed candidate that lost the first time. Those that knew he wouldn't win and was the wrong choice, voted for the others that didn't make it. Face it, the majority has spoken. Many of us had to put up with Doyle for years and sucked it up and dealt with it. May I suggest some of you try the same.

9 out of 10 voters, and 9 out of 10 contributers for the Dems shouldn't and couldn't have voted because they and they're money come from out of state too.

As usual you're confused TCB. Based on polling information, the election became a referendum on the recall process itself. The poll indicated that OVER half of those voting supported unions but were against the recall. So who will take on the concentrated special interest groups like Corporations and ALEC? Talk about special interests, are you aware that 6 out of 10 donors (60%) to the Walker campaign could not even vote because they lived out of State. Isn't THAT special?
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So far the only excuses are coming from Walker and the Republicans, spark. I'm sure we'll here even MORE excuses as the John Doe investigation continues.

What ahppened to Fear and Mouse..... they crawled back under their rocks.....??????

Panama -- I thought this was your comment :
"I don't know of ANY public sector upper management types that are compensated at the same level as private sector management or CEO's."
Thats what I was responding to..... Again, you cannot and should not compare them. One manages a business, creating wealth and jobs. The other creates increased taxes and operating costs for the government, while extorting dues, enciting riots, and tricking union employees into believing the garbage they spit out.

PanamaRed - We know you have problems with polls and votes when it comes to losing. Guess what, half can disagree all they want when 53% beats the other half. That is the majority. Can you comprehend that? Or are some of you going to continue to make excuses on here and call people names?

pRed,

Walker won 100% of the governs race. Barrett lost 100% and walker did it with 53% of the vote-just like the obama nationally. Walker should easily win again in 2014 should he choose to run. The election was a huge referendum against big labor and its tactics. Walker created a blue print for others looking to take on concentrated special interest groups like public unions.

I know spark and vato have problems with simple numbers so I'll say this very slowly. The people you claim have "spoken" only represent 53% of those who actually voted. That means about half don't agree with you. Now, unless you belong to that select group of idiots who believe only half of the population of WI deserve representation, that means we don't have to go along with the tactics Republicans use to vilify public sector employees.
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Ezoner, the curse word is "job creator" by limiting it only to the wealthy. WE ARE ALL JOB CREATORS. No one mentioned comparing union leadership wages to corporate leadership wages, except you. You must be lost in the ozone, ezone since millions of Americans are more concerned with sheer survival after losing their job, house, car, savings and retirement funds while Corporations and CEO"s continue to enjoy record level wealth. With your overblown sense of importance, you even find time to chastise those who dare consider buying a new washer or dryer. Walker is taking from the public sector and poor while lavishing tax cuts on the Corporations and wealthy. THAT'S the definition of a thug.

Vato, isn't it time you take your goose-stepping dance to North Korea? I've heard they're into union busting, one-party rule and a majority single wage class. You could be king.

One word - LOL!:)

youkillme - The people have spoken. You lose. Take it like a champ.

I see the right-wing circus clowns are out in force today. Loosen the strap holding your giant red clown nose before it cuts off your circulation. LOL :^D

Youkill -- you mean like the haters targeted Walker and the GOP senate in WI???? Those are haters. Thugs and criminals. They damaged the capital, disrupted or tried to disrupt democracy, and forced a recall on a Gov. that did nothing short of what he promised when he ran for office and was elected by the people.

Maine2010
Jun 7, 2012 at 11:21 a.m.
Suggest removal To: PanamaRed
While most working in the private sector had their incomes drastically slashed due to the forces of globalization, public sector workers granted themselves annual raises, catapulting themselves into the upper middle class and elite bracket. Public sector workers portray themselves as "average middle class workers," but voters saw the salaries/benefits packages posted online, including abuses such as public sector bus drivers earning in excess of $100,000 per year.
.
This CRAP is why Walker won. People actually believe the lies spouted by the Republicans.
.
My wife has been a state working for 10+ years and not received a SINGLE RAISE. The last raise was Tommy Thompson. The union took the benefits instead of wage increases. FACT.
.
Those making a lot, like the ONE example used, bus driver; made so by abusing overtime. That is something management could have fixed with negotiations but chose not to.
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Workers lost yesterday. They lost because of lies and they lost because their president failed them. Mostly, they lost because the middle-class doesn't support the middle-class.
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Lastly, the intimidation tactics used by the unions is EXACTLY what led this country to minimum wage, 40 hour work week, overtime pay, holiday/vacation/sick time, safety rules/LAWS, etc... I do not support all if it but when the lies are being told and the governor considers using "trouble-makers" it is necessary.
.
I pity those so misinformed as to support right-to-work legislation.

Union thugs.. Makes me laugh every time lol

Panama --
1) noone can define what that so caled living wage is. The term has now become a curse word in the dictionary of what union employee expectations as defines by private employees that do not recieve similar compensation and benefits. The problem is the same as what Obama proclaims -- and it has become the haves and the have nots.

2)People need to learn to LIVE within their means. That may mean a cheaper cell phone, not the latest Iphone. It may mean limited minutes. It may mean the 32" TV and not the 55". It may mean you fix the old washer/dryer instead of a new one. It will mean throwing out the credit cards or capping spending and setting a budget. We do that today. Everyone must do that and the buy now, pay later mentality must change.

3) I dont think anyone has been comparing union leadership wages to corporate leadership and quite honestly, there are no caomparisons that should be drawn. The comparisons are against the avaerage union employee compesation, skill set and the average private employee when talking trades.

To all leftists, occupiers, union thugs and malcontents,

Thank you! What an election! We couldn't have done it without you. Without your tantrums, outbursts and boorish behavior we might have stayed home for this election. Without your filthy, pot smoking hemp -headed minions occupying, dirtying and damaging our Capitol we might have been complacent. Without your obnoxious protests, boycotts and other actions from your union playbook, we might have sat this one out

Only haters target another group for extermination and the greedy want to destroy unions.

Justsomeguy: Please post more frequently, sir. :-)

saxcat, while too many average Americans live beyond their means, a family of 3 would have a hard time surviving on a two wage earners bringing home $10 per hour. When compared to the rest of the world we Americans earn the highest wages and STILL can't make ends meet because our society is geared toward a "buy now, pay later" mentality.
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maine, public sector workers, as a whole, were not milking the system. In either a private business or public entity hierarchy you'll find examples of individual earning much more than their "worth". Why should public sector workers earn less than private sector workers with the same qualifications? I don't know of ANY public sector upper management types that are compensated at the same level as private sector management or CEO's.
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What determines a "living wage" is subjective yet our economy will ONLY be sustained by creating a broad based "class" of wage earners who are paid a living wage. Our goal should include incentives that raise the level of income earned by all workers instead of working to establish the lowest wages necessary to survive. Jobs are created by consumers, not the wealthy and not because of tax incentives.

I'll take $5 from a 100,000 people donating to ActBlue as more representative of the people over one donation of $500,000 from Diane hendricks anytime.

Okay, its over! Thank God. Everyone I know is so sick of hearing about Walker and the Recall, so sick of the BS that both parties talked, so tired of the lies, the broken, not meant to be kept promises! So lets get on with it and get his mug off the front pages and get on with something that is different and at least more local. In my opinion, if he wants to have a brat and beer party to bring Wisconsin together again then why does he not have it for the citizens of Wisconsin? We are the ones who had to suffer through all the commercials, all the phone calls, all the flyers on the door, and all the crap. What kind of party is he going to give the residents of Wisconsin? Or is it, we are not rich enough? We are just the simple poor who don't count.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php...

This is proof as open records of donors that the liberal message falls apart. Top 20 donors are listed more for Dems and the Koch Brothers are way down to 77th.

Liberals need a new message.

yada, I believe most voters didn't vote for Walker the man, but rather voted for his policies. If the lawsuit plays out like you seem to think and he gets convicted, voters in this last election will most likely still vote for a balanced budget and dismantling public unions.

yada,

Did Bill Clinton have (has) a legal defense fund? Yes or No?

90% of all private businesses are not union. The only increasing sector in union membership is with public sector. Unions will be hurt with the elimination of the automatic dues withholding thousands of state workers will not voluntarily contribute-and thousands will leave their union simply because their is no benefit to membership.

Walker has proved there needs to be a balance with public sector employees and taxpayers. Michigan was simply waiting to see if recalling a sitting governor based on a disagreement of policy is an effective method for change-Michigan learned that it is not. Unions have long lost the label as the defender of the middle-class values and economic well being. The argument for public sector unions was not safety, moral, or intellectual? It was wholly political. Liberal icon FDR thought the notion of public sector unions was a terrible idea-so did JFK. Private-sector unions fight with management over an equitable distribution of profits. Government unions negotiate with friendly politicians over taxpayer money-this becomes a system were growing govt becomes its own reward and in tough economic times (thankfully obama ended the recession in June 2009-didnt he?) this is not good policy.

Walker has a CRIMINAL DEFENSE FUND that is now close to almost $200,000 in payments to his FOUR lawyers. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that something will be happening soon in the FBI JOHN DOE investigation. The criminal defense fund can only be set up if YOU ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION. Walker is like Richard Nixon - kept saying he was innocent, up until all the crap hit the fan. This is only ROUND ONE in the BATTLE with UNIONS. Walker said in his own words he wanted to DIVIDE AND CONQUER, pit worker against worker. Underneath his smile and charm is someone who tells the public one thing and the rich something else. He refused to answer the question in the debate about signing any bill on WI becoming a RED STATE. As Barrett said..he will sign it.

http://freakoutnation.com/wp-content/upl...

Walker's closest buddy is starting to talk in John Doe.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/04...

Imagine if our taxes weren't deducted out of our paycheck, and instead we wrote a check out at the end of the year. Now picture public sector employees coming to each of our homes every year saying, "this year I'm going to need last year's amount plus an additional $100 from you to pay for my salary and benefit increases". I ask the liberals, if your salary went down and your health insurance premiums went up this year, are you going to write that check?

To: PanamaRed
While most working in the private sector had their incomes drastically slashed due to the forces of globalization, public sector workers granted themselves annual raises, catapulting themselves into the upper middle class and elite bracket. Public sector workers portray themselves as "average middle class workers," but voters saw the salaries/benefits packages posted online, including abuses such as public sector bus drivers earning in excess of $100,000 per year.

"The average worker will continue to lose ground in the battle for earning a living wage"
I might agree with you panamared, except two things. First, add the word "below" before average, because those are the folks who needed union representation. Second, the whole "living wage" farce. A person can live a really happy life making 10 bucks an hour. a person can be really miserable making 100 bucks an hour. it's not how much you make, it's how much you need.

I am afraid that we will have to learn that the hard way.

Instead of the headline reading "Nation's unions lost big in the Wisconsin showdown" it SHOULD read "Nation's workers lost big..." The average worker will continue to lose ground in the battle for earning a living wage without the representation unions provided. ALL workers benefited from work the union did that forced Employers into providing a safe work environment, fair wages and benefits and employee training programs. Walkers goal to boost Corporate earnings at the expense of workers wages will do little to create jobs or generate a sustainable economy. THAT'S why WI is last in job creation. Unlike Walker, the statistics won't lie.

NO the GOP money bought the votes end of this theroy Wait till Novemeber The ones that were told because the signed the recall they did not need to vote are a little wiser now. I did get that call and knew the moronic GOP were at it again as did many others, some did not and November will be interesting... OBAMA 2012

And Jobu, too.

Thank you, Ironic Ted Kennedy,
once again,
for that thoughtful analysis.
I am confident that,
any day now,
a brand new thought will come to you
and am looking forward
to you sharing that, too,
with us again
and again
and again.
Bob bless you.

your argument works both ways, helge1939. some folks who know they work harder and better than the average joe, don't want "seniority" dictating their position within a company.

Scott Walker won because Wisconsin homeowners had to put up with having their property taxes increase annually -- right through the Great Recession, while their home values plummeted. Property taxes are supposed to be based on appraised market values, so they should have decreased. One Madison attorney reported that 75% of his cases are property tax appeals. Also, the outrageously excessive compensation packages of public workers were posted online, which infuriated taxpayers even more. The fact that public workers (and their unions) had granted themselves annual pay raises right through the Great Recession proved that their greed was totally out-of-control and drastic measures were desperately needed. Since the real estate market and consumer spending are the two main engines of the U.S. economy, basing all taxes, including property taxes, on income might be worth considering. If this had been the case, then at least the grossly overpaid public sector workers would have had to pay higher property taxes than those in the private sector with slashed incomes.

This headline should just read the Unions have lost it.
They just have this radical idea that intimidation still works. It doesn't. We are feed up and we aren't going to take it anymore. Plain and simple. Don't trash our beautiful Capitol building and think we regular folks appreciate that behavior. Election results say, we don't.

slick
said it all
Those that want every one down to their level seem to not have enough know how to really work for what they can get

Actually Maine, thats not entirely accurate about public Union workers. For example Police, fire, correctional officer, etc... are fully vested in their pension plan after 5 years of service, in which case they would recieve 80% of thier highest 3 years. They are unable to retire untill 53-53 1/2. They dont need to, but it becomes a case of making more in retirement than while working (overtime worked while younger). They also recieve a pretty good health package. The money is actually taken from the union-money contributed by all members. Here's where it gets tricky. Equate this to a Ponzi scheme (unions hate this reference but it is essentially what it is), newer members fund the retirements of older members. 2 problems occur. 1st is that people are living longer lives. WHen Unions first came about, living into your 60's or 70's was a long life. Now people add 30 years to that. This creates the problem that eventually more people will be recieving benefits than people funding thru dues. This is also seen in private sector Union companies. For example, GM has to charge more per car than say a Toyota, not becuase of branding (made in USA, or name) not because of quality/safety/performance, but becuase of 50% of profits that come in for the year are required for the benefits of indivudals that are no longer working for the company. This leads to the 2nd problem of moeny running out resulting in increased dues, benefit cuts for newer members, and eventually bargining for more money. Couple this with the crumbling of SS and medicare, and there will be a real problem in about 20-30 years as there wont be the money to substain retiree's, without raising taxes.

How much money is middle class?

Looks like a deodorant commercial. "RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU'RE SURE!"

Wisconsin and Gov. Scott Walker setting the pace for the U.S. I am proud to be from Wisconsin and having the visionary leadership we currently have.

FORWARD Gov. Walker and the others will follow!

Anyhow, my 1st impression as I looked at the picture was a reflex not a thought out political statement. I do believe that the governor was duly elected by the majority and while I do not agree with how he went about implementing his agenda I believe he certainly has the right to implement his vision for our state.

ozzman99 - Ha! The pic does look like that. He also could look like any person standing by the road waving? A lot of things he could look like...lol. I still support him.

ozzman

Did you notice.............it was NOT a closed FIST.

Also my first thought when I saw the picture ozzmman99.
I'm glad I'm older and retired. Never thought I'd be happy to have more years behind me then years ahead of me. I don't think I'd like to be starting out as a young worker today. Somehow things have evolved to the point that a worker who can afford to drive a new car, has his own home, and maybe even has a boat is viewed by many other workers as a fat cat. God forbid that any common person get's a pension. Soon 401k's will be considered excessive compensation.
I don't think that everyone in this country should expect to be taken care of from cradle to grave by the government.....but it's getting to the point where the compensation and benefits from many jobs is not sufficient to support a decent lifestyle, let alone leave a worker with enough extra money to save for retirement.

Wisconsin voters have spoken - again. Governor Scott Walker can finally get back to business.

Hurray for the USA! The Unionists are finally being forced out from under their slimy rocks and exposed to the light of day. Get the TEAMSTERS, and all other trade unions out of the public sector, and watch them disappear. Get rid of their corrupt practices like "retire and re-hire", free-ride lifetime healthcare, and free-ride lifetime pensions on the backs of the Middle Class private-sector workers who are forced to support their corruption through mandatory payroll tax deductions.
Most government union workers will receive 80% of their regular salary after they retire, all paid for by the taxpayer. Many can retire in their 50's. So for the next 30 years, they will not work, or produce anything on behalf of the taxpayer, and still get paid. Paid all those years to do nothing to provide any more services to the taxpayer. I say all government union jobs should be put out for bid every five years. If you think you are so underpaid, and your benefits so puny, nobody will underbid you, right?

ozzman......If Nazis are the first thing that pop into your head when you see a guy waving at a crowd of people, you really need to get some help then:(

&