Maybe because most of the issues we face today as a nation both economically and abroad are as a direct result of the policies of his historically awful administration.
Patriotic? Hardly. That seems to be a catch phrase anymore, not a real term.i.e.. The Patriot Act.

That trend was set when President George W. Bush was in office. Mr. Bush was ripped apart for everything, good and bad, he did. George Bush has proven he is a classy patriotic American by holding in his critical commentary on Obama. Bush is a better person for it.

Actually -- on the gay issue. There should have been no case, there was no reason for a case, the definition is fine as it stands. The special interest groups have forced that issue. But this is a different topic.

As for the issue on this subject -- I do not trust a congress with 10% approval ratings. I do not in general trust the government to look out for my individual best interest nor my freedom as they have proven that they are inly interested in their own compensation and power. So until they can manage simple tasks, I would prefer they fix what they have messed up already before invading into my personal healthcare. If they could fix just one, maybe -- maybe social security, medicare, I dont know -- maybe one. Our energy policy is screwed up, you name it. They have bascially destroyed NASA. These guys couldnt find there way out of a wet paper sack.

YEP I trust congress to set up the pay structure a heck of a lot more than i trust any insurance company.
Ezoner it is funny you like to set up imaginary straw men to knock down in every issue, whcih I get a good laugh out of. Fake slippery slopes, fear mongering about "death panels" , things that just do not exist. Yet you want the government to make things like gay marriage illegal because you dont like certain choices. So give me government when it serves MY POV but take it away when I am opposed, excellent reasoning.

Fear -- you need to pull the blinders off. You -- who does not like nor trust congress, now want these same people to set the budgets, rules, coverages, etc... to determine who will be covered and how. If you think for a moment that cannot and will not happen I have some swamp land in Nevada for you. It just comes down to, I do not want the government envolved in my care. I believe in personal responsibility and my privacy. I will pay for my own care, and others should pay for theirs. If I cannot afford the care, that will be fine, we are all on this earth on a temporary basis anyway. I have buried most of my family and when my time comes -- I will refuse cancer treatment, I will refuse resuscitation. As a result of my death I expect my ENTIRE estate to go to my children, I earned the money and paid taxes on it and they should not be required to pay a dime in taxes. There is no gain on that money at transfer. (example bought a $100k house, paid $200k interest over 30 years, sell house for $200k, plus paid $1000's in property taxes, maintenance etc.). If you are more poor than I, then you can afford less care, if you are richer than I more care. I accept that premise. If not, all you will do is pull all care to a lower level.

""No the government can deny care -- essentially exterminating the less health portion of the population. It can become a form of population control and government control of cost. Dont even say its not possible""

Are you even a human being? Care should be between a DOCTOR and their patient. You have this notion that in a socialized system that the GOVT is your doctor, that simply IS NOT the case. Again, more false "Sarah Palin" style death panel fear mongering on your part.
You are for insurance companies performing a form of "population control" essentially allowing poor folks to die if they cannot afford care to save their own life. That may be one of the most inhumane things I have ever read, and quite honestly you should be ashamed of yourself for making a comment like that.
MY point is that EVERY SINGLE person will need care, so EVERY SINGLE PERSON should pay, PERIOD> It has NOTHING to do with the false rhetoric of the government being your doctor crap that you and others try to use as a talking point and it just isnt. Its fear mongering,its false, plain and simple.

Yes...even I who do not like our current Presidents politics...must repect the man for his accomplishments, and his office. That is the way I was taught, and certainly one of the reasons I served my country. I also take my hat off at when the national anthem plays, and get teary eyed at a fly over or a color guard. Let me tell you those reunions with soldiers and their kids....my god man, I am a giant baby they get me everytime. I may choose not to support his politics, but the office, that goes without saying and should be the same for all of us. He is our leader and was voted into his position by our pears. Thats good enough for me.

Thats the point -- everyone will not recieve equal care. It will be equal for those that do not have the resources to pay for special care. There will be rationing of ALL care except for those that can pay whatever it costs. The situation will now become, the poor guy and middle class man have issues. Neither can get into the doctor in time to resilve the issue in a reasonable time. They will both now require the special care, ohhh except they get bypassed by the guy that can pay. They get a general diagnosis, the % says on 10% of people survive, the special federal board says at that % we do not perform the procedure. They both die. Plus -- it now goes into my family record and the government knows this is a family condition. The members of my family are now refused care or are provided a lower level of care because it is known to be and issue. No the government can deny care -- essentially exterminating the less health portion of the population. It can become a form of population control and government control of cost. Dont even say its not possible. This is the same congress you and I both bash for being stupid, yet you now want to trust they make the right decisions regarding your healthcare -- your life. No way will I put my life in the governments hands when it comes to my health, my personal data, my family health information.

Rhetoric makes an argument cute, but mathemetics and actual fact are not in the corner of the "get government out of my care" crowd.

Lot of rhetorical instances on your part in that last post, yet very little facts. The facts point out that care is already rationed inn this country if you are poor. Plus if you cannot afford care the government , i.e... the taxpayer already picks up the tab.
In the spirit of your rhetoric, lets just say a poor man avoids the doctor for ten years because he cannot afford care, and then one day he starts pissing blood out of nowhere, and it is found thet he has kidney failure/bladder cancer or whatever serious life threatening condition results. Now we as taxpayers are footing the bill for dailysis, chemothreapy , cancer treatments or whaever ultra expensive care they now REQUIRE and to your graet displeasure we cannot just allow them to wither away and die.
Preventative care includes getting regular checkups and keeping people invested in staying healthy, living healthy lifestyles and not driving costs up for the rest of us, by being fat slobs , smoking like chimneys, or having substance abuse problems.

I find it funny that we have government built and maintained roads. Government run Garbage service, government provided utilities, etc..... but no oh no could we have a socialized health care system. Because every single American needs health care, not one person will go their entire life without seeing a doctor, NOT ONE!!
The siniffley nose rhetroic uis cute but good luck getting in to see a doc right away with that prognosis.
I actually prefer the government wasnt a part of actual CARE either, just making sure we have a system in place where everyone is ENTITLED to equal care, let the doctors make the choices about what care is necessary , NOT insurance companies. Health insurance is probably the most evil industry on EARTH, and the largest cause of personal bankruptcy in the US.
"get government out of health care" is a cute little catch phrase that works on those that like to listen to that kind of trash, but I would more like private , profit driven insurance out of care. Why?? Because health care should be a god given HUMAN right , not determined by wealth and or privilidge.

Fear -- pull your panties out a little --

I have not seen you step layout any left wing hypocracies --

My point on healthcare is -- the masses will would recieve one level of care and those with money (just as in these countries you use as examples) will travel to where the best care is available and can and will pay for it. What we will see is a drag on our system, a reduction in the number of physicians, and increased wait times. There is no reason to wait any longer to see a doc. There will be increased frequency of needless visits for sniffly nose etc... The reality is public care is the same as generic care. The government will now have access to my PRIVATE information and has forced me to pay for a product. Both are unconstitutional. I do not want the government involved in MY private care period. Set aside that it will only increase cost for a moment, and only consider that now uncle sam will tell me what care I get, how I will get it, and they know every little detail about me. They can use my care as a bargaining chip for other things, like if I didnt submit my taxes on time, I get no care. If I didnt register for a draft, no care. Whatever it may be, they can now deny me care for any reason they choose, or by mistake, or someone assumes my identity. I do not want the government involved - its simple, stay out of the relationship between me and my doc, its none of their business.

""We as a country will be unable to provide everyone the same level of healthcare, thats a fact."" that is WRONG!! there are nations all over the EARTH that do it RIGHT now at HALF the price the USA does! Per capita health care spending in the USA is outrageously higher than the rest of the world! THAT is a fact.
The USA is the richest nation on Earth, with a larger military than the rest of the world COMBINED!! And you try to tell me that a socialized system is unreachable financially? One that would cost less money than our current system? DOesnt add up, the statistics (which I have studied) point to 16% of our GDP being healthcare related , when most other countries in the world are 8-10% as a high number.

""you ignore those on the left"" WORONG! I get sick and tired of people like you and vato and others talk about the "left" being so hypocritical and act as if they are the only ones. many of your demonizing of the left comments are ones I just have to refute. I am not a political cheerleader. WHat I find myself doing on this blog is defending liberal arguments more often than not because so many ridiculous statements are made on here demonizing that side more than the other, thats why you percieve me to be that way, but the facts are that I am just a thinker. I make decisions based on right and wrong, NOT right and left. If there were more folks like me in that manner our city/state/nation/world could be a FAR better place to be in. Instead we live in partisan land where greed and issues take precedent over people and morality. Ever heard of the Golden Rule?

""you ignore those on the left"" WORONG! I get sick and tired of people like you and vato and others talk about the "left" being so hypocritical and act as if they are the only ones. many of your demonizing of the left comments are ones I just have to refute. I am not a political cheerleader. WHat I find myself doing on this blog is defending liberal arguments more often than not because so many ridiculous statements are made on here demonizing that side more than the other, thats why you percieve me to be that way, but the facts are that I am just a thinker. I make decisions based on right and wrong, NOT right and left. If there were more folks like me in that manner our city/state/nation/world could be a FAR better place to be in. Instead we live in partisan land where greed and issues take precedent over people and morality. Ever heard of the Golden Rule?

Fear -- the problem is you only list the hipocracy on the right, and although you admit both sides are at fault, you ignore those on the left. Where we generally disagree is on large specific matters, such as healthcare. Where you are driven by a personal experience and a single very personal datapoint as opposed to a top level objective view. We as a country will be unable to provide everyone the same level of healthcare, thats a fact. There will always be those that can afford better healthcare than others. There is no guarantee that your brother would have recieved treatment under a national healthcare mandate/system. In fact, the treatment may have been deemed to expensive. So he may have been worse off under a public system than a private system.

"Disrespecting the President" is poor English. How about; "Not respecting the President"? I'd be all for that.

Motorman: Yes, that was a great episode of Moyers' ongoing series, which is excellent. (Jonathan Haidt has come a long way in the right direction but still has a few more miles left in his journey. That's a topic for a separate discussion...) The problem is, far too many people don't want to learn any truth that does not confirm what they already believe. Even worse is when it places their existing beliefs in jeopardy. So, the people who could most benefit from the Moyers interview are the very same ones who are least likely to watch it. D'OH!

BTW Herman Cin was an adulterous idgit and was ran off because he was and is not very smart and had ZERO chance of being elected. 999? might have been the dumbest idea I have ever seen!!

As a relative newcomer to the gazette blogs, I've noticed how much both liberals and conservatives seem to talk past one another and be concerned with point scoring rather than trying for compromise and common understanding of the problems we ultimately must solve together. I've dropped into that mode myself. Here's a link to a Bill Moyers interview I found very interesting. It may be of interest to you as well. http://billmoyers.com/episode/how-do-con.... The professor he interviews does not support one view over the other. He focuses on how each side struggles to understand the others values, and gives a few suggestions on how to have a meaningful dialog

The funny thing is Ezoner is that we agree on national politics. Your problem is that you blame "the left" for everything like its even a real point of view. Its just hypnotic repeating of the same old political cheerleading on your part.
I used to be EXTREMELY conservative, I left the movement over health care , when the system almost was responsible for my brother getting near death , because he had an illnes and was worried about cost. Now he is okay, just bankrupt. Not because he was lazy or didnt have coverage, but because his insurance screwed him.
I blame American politics as a whole for the downfall of this once great nation, not the left , not the right, the left and right. I get so sick and tired of you and others talking about the rampant "left wing" hypocricy , when gabbing politics. Especially when we are talking about hypocricy from the supposed "moral Majority", or the "party of family values". You want to play the finger pointing hypocricy game? I would ask all of the evangelical southern WHITE Christians to take a long hard look at the values professed by their savior and try if you can to take the abortion issue out of it. TALK ABOUT HYPOCRICY!!
So spare me the rhetoric about who is hypocritical, because they all are, the "immoral majority" can go jump in a lake as far as I am concerned. I believe what I believe separate of political party , free from rhetoric, free from greed and opinions on tax policy. Based on what I BELIEVE what is right and wrong, not based on a party.
You want to have a hypocricy challenge? Lets do it, because I could go on and on and on and on!! Ill let you drop the whole left wing hypocricy blather or post some examples , and THEN I will piss off the entire blog and respond with NUMEROUS examples of hypocricy from the right and the left, to show that NO party wins the hypocricy party.
Just because you wont vote for Romney doesnt mean that youre not a partisan, it just means you see what everyone else sees, and that is your party putting forth possibly the worst field of candidates in American history.

Fear -- why do you think Cain was run off the campaign trail. Why do they nominalize Ron Paul. Why did they make Perot look like an idiot. It was the establishment. They promoted Obama because he looked and talked good, but couldnt produce the goods. You have the left elites and the right rich making all the decisions. We are no longer a company by the people - for the people. What frustrates me is when you dont listen to your own words and promote the left agenda.

Ohhh and did you see -- no Obama supports superpacs, so if you think big business is behind them as well...... the big ones show support for both sides to hedge their bets. The reality is the special interests hold the left leaders hostage. The hipocracy on the left is so direct and blatant, that it makes me ill. As I have stated. -- If ROmeny is the guy -- I will write in or not vote at all.

And whom lines the pockets of the repubs? DOnt just say that "they have their sources" as a qualifier. The main groups that advocate for conservative policy are wealthy folks.
I also would like to point out that you cannot point to a republican politician that wasn't all about tax and spend just the same. They just spend and give to their friends. WHat are they going to do? Tax and save? Republicans have been JUST as big of spenders in the last 30 years as Democrats have been, the democrats just dont talk about repubs in that particular talking point.
Could someone please point out a politician that rejected pork barrel spending inn their district over their entire career? They ALL do it, you just buuy the talking points , and believe that one side has the answer. I happen to believe that niether side has an answer. I think they all spend like drunken sailors. EVERY ONE , if you think that they dont I cam make a very telling case for any of them, give me a name.....

Fear -- ididnt say that the answer was simple. But to think that the dems have the answer with tax, spend and regulate business to death is correct or to implement purely protectionist policies that isolate us from the rest of teh world, is certainly not the answer. The dems -- put simply have unions and the permanently required underclass to support their pockets. They use special interests as a rotating cash account. The repubs have their sources as well. They both need to go. But if I must choose between the 2 on purely financial matters, I will come out ahead with teh repubs and I lose everytime a dem shows up. They absolutely do not own a calculator that works.

I agree as to how difficult it is to respect the politicians or anyone who does not do their work BUT we want the world to respect us and know we are the most progressive country, etc. If our own people do not respect the office of the president why would any other foreign leaders? We can show that we disagree with our president or are disappointed in our leaders but still must show that we respect the office and pray for changes.

I have mixed feelings on this. I do think the office of the president should have some respect no matter who is in office. However, it is getting harder and harder to respect anyone in office. Not because of what they do in their personal life, but because they appear to be lazy. With Congress working so little (maybe it should be only a part time job) and with them not getting anything done (i.e. the budget crisis), I have a hard time respecting anyone in office. I know I would not want to work with them at my place of employment. Decisions would never get made and productivity would be non-existent.

I think it is time we all admit that the politicians from both parties show no respect for the office of the President. I am 60+ in age and was taught from a young age that there are certain things we show respect for....stand for the American flag, cover your heart when reciting our pledge of allegiance and no matter how we feel politically we show respect for the "office" of the president of the United States. Although I do not think Arizona's governor was respectful she was not nearly as disrespectful as most of the politicians that are running for office or campaigning for their candidates. When do you hear anyone say "Mr. Obama" or President Obama??? Anymore it is just Obama. It is time for parents to teach their kids respect of adults and decorum and it is time for the adults to show respect themselves.!!! Let's show the world we respect the Office of the president of the United States.

a 10 percent tax credit for small businesses that add jobs or raise wages and a plan to eliminate country-specific caps for some immigrant visas so the United States can attract more high-skilled foreign workers, including entrepreneurs.

They would also reduce taxes on entrepreneurs' start-up costs and make it easier for small firms to go public without jumping through the Securities and Exchange Commission's registration hoops, raising the limit for "mini-public offerings" to $50 million from $5 million.

Kinda blows your assumption away here ezoner, a one party system would not work.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/o...

Ezoner you are hilarious. Dems favor their friends and are only worried about their pocketbooks? And republicans aren't? I fall in line with my friend kiowa on this one and defer to him on economic issues.
Your contention that republicans are the "party of business" while the evil democrats are simple union puppets, is a simple minded argument and not very rooted in truth.
I love these people that contend that the solutions to all our problems are to simply vote for republicans. SO, SO funny.All while IGNORING the multitudes of tax breaks the current admin has passed for small business. If they were republicans you would be in here praising them, but since your partisan brain tells you one thing you refuse to acknowledge everything.

Fear -- the rules as you call them are intended to further the dem interest in supporting their own agendas and wallets. They have no interest in supporting business in general. They regulate a business they dont like (doesnt contribute) to death and they hand money out (redistribute) money to those that donate to their campaigns and speaking engagements. The problem is they also show favoritism to certain groups -- like unions, which are now run like a business and should be taxed severly. They are a pure profit business with little or no cost. All about power and money -- worse than bankers and lawyers.

The dems love business, and so do the reps...
However; ONLY when it's 'business' that they are PART OF the big revolving door of access-influence with...AKA: OLIGARCHY!
BIG banking, insurance, military, food, pharma, ext...BOTH parties LOVE all these, and it's a big ole revolving door between governmnet and those BIG 'industries'..
Now if you are talking small-ma pap business...yeah, the dems hate business, and well, so do the reps. Until you are in the country club; neither give a damn about you.

"Obama is just getting the same type of respect that was shown to Bush!"

So, either conservatives are lowering themselves to the level of liberals, or, two wrongs make a right.

Happy to report that official papers have been filed to recall Governor Jan Brewer. Thank you Wisconsin for showing the oppressed how to rid their states of self-serving morons.

""Face it -- the dems hate business""
ezoner you are gonna have to lie better than that. I dont have to face it because its just not true. Wanting RULES in place doesnt mean you hate eanything.

Yes One Day -- have heard it all before. I will assign a task force (then ignore their input as with the fincancial task force), I will assign a Czar, yada yada ..... Its all lip service. And as for the task force your son is on, you watch -- the output will be more complex than the original. Programs in place for electric vehicles and home mortgages -- so complicated or so restrictive, that nobody meets the criteria. Face it -- the dems hate business. And although you will say its rhetoric -- the dems need a permanent lower class, they need to keep them poor, or they do not have a platform to run on.

Obama is just getting the same type of respect that was shown to Bush!

Ezoner...President Obama has assignred a task force to reduce regulations. I know this for a fact, my son-in-law is on the task force. They have already consolidated and eliminated many regulations regarding the clean water act.

Fear -- with the hundreds of new regulations, he has basically put some out of business. His stance on the pipeline is a joke (Purely to energize the base as opposed to making a good sound decision). He proves over and over that he is not interested in business, governing, leading, only in the office. He doesnt really care about anything or anyone, unless he has a gain somehow. (Refernce IL govenor ROBBY and his old senate seat). The problem also exists in state dems, that deplete balances, raise taxes, and increase regulation. That has been the motto of dems for years. They want to regulate people into a particular behavoir. Some repubs do as well, But the true constitutional conservatives do not.

To label someone general;ly means that in most cases they subscribe to a party and dont alow for independance in making decisions on issues. Which I clearly do not. I fall on issues what I believe to be right, not democratic, or republican. Sorry to disappoint the labellers out there.

Skippy- You obviously have not seen that I dont care if anyone labels me, I just find labels humorous. What have "labeled" anyone that they are not? A republican? A conservative? I certainly dont call republicans fascist, like you and others call democrats socialists or communists!! SO exactly what are you blatrhering on about?
As to health care, I have family that lives in Canada, that feels the EXACT opposite of your people in Norway. So I dont think that makes or breaks anyones opinions about socialized vs our care(insurance).
The facts however bear out that socialized medicine is better in general, when differing opinions are involved. WHen credible opinions are on either side of an argument, maybe we should go rto the stat sheet. In that arena, its pretty clear. So keep on chuckling skippy.

Ezoner- You just assume that OBama is anti-business. The fact is that since being elected Obama has enacted 17+ tax credits for small business. How EXACTLY is that anti-business?

RAF- I do hold him responsible for voting for TARP , absolutely. Again to throw all of the millions of job losses on his plate the day he was sworn in isnt exactly a great argument , the same way you cannot blame Walker for the first 6 months of job gains in Wisconsin while Jim Doyles budgets were still inplay.

Ezoner, wrong rant.

Nomo -- not stacking any deck. Its a known fact. It can be seen in the stock market. If we get to July or August of this year and see an uptick in the markets , and I would argue that the market uptick we are seeing now, is the market reaction -- to price in a leadership change and a pro-business admin. This has been a fact for every change in party that I have seen for years. Its actually pretty well documented.

As for your rant on respect -- I respect the office, not the person and will conitinue to state Obama or Bush as I see fit. Bush was a leader (whether you agree or disagree with policies) Obama is a follower -- with very thin skin, not accustomed to being questioned in a leadership role.

I don't care who the President is he should be respected. I hate when people write about the president and only use his last name. It should always be President Obama or President Bush. Never Obama or Bush. I'm a die hard Democrat and I will respect a President Romney if he's elected. But how can somebody be dumb enough to believe in mormonism and yet be smart enough to be president?

Ezoner, you don't like to stack the deck much to support your argument do you? There's already another poster on here who does that. And to be compared to him is not a compliment.

Fear -- on the job loses.... I do believe that -- in general when dems are in office, businesses build in an adjustment for the dem anti-business sentitment / ideology. So although you may want to ignore the 1st 6 months of president Oabamas admin, the fact remains that the country was already in a downward slide, add to that a president that will be anti-business. That will drive the economy lower or slower. The anticipation is an anti-business environment. Now -- consider a repub gov in WI -- will have some impact in a tough national market, the pro-business repubs will be fighting for a percentage of a shrinking market of business investment, making it tough to convince business to grow or invest in any state. Therefore, the references to jobs in teh future for WI are a good sign that WI is being successful in convincing businesses to consider and invest in WI even in a difficult business environment.

fear stated "Mar 2009-800k, April 2009- 650k, May 2009- 400k, June 2009- 500k, I was wondering what policy enacted by left wing liberals was a direct cause of those job losses? Ill wait.."
-
As with most economic problems in this nation a single policy or action is never the cause. Since you and I have discussed our thoughts behind the latest crisis what makes you think my comments would be different this time?

fear stated " So the job losses that were taking place during the first six months of his presidency , you are placing those firmly on his resume? Funny logic. January 2009, the president’s first month in office."
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He didn't just walk into Washington that day. Are you really going to ignore he was 1 of 100 representing all states in the US Senate voting for/against spending, policies, laws, and changes during his time there. To completely obfuscate his participation in the process of government shows you really haven't a clue of who he is.

243000 new job created, that is 4860 per state, and wisconsin has 76 counties that would be about 64 jobs per county created, which would make about 10 jobs in Janesville, now that is progress. This is in response to the job numbers and the unemployment going down to 8.3 percent nationally. I really respect people trying to call that progress.

Fear, I am able to speak about socialized medicine. I have family that lives in Norway, and they would gladly take our health care that we currently have. On paper socialized medicine looks like it works, but humanitarianly, it does not. I am ok that you think it works, but you are very blinded by paper vs. people. And yes you are a Dem. I love labeling people, and so do you. Almost all your posts on here have some sort of label, or name calling, yet you get mad at others when they label you. HAHAHHAHAHA

Does anyone realize that if the media was not involved, there would not even be this blog nor discussion. Get themedia out, because this is what divides a nation. I do however believe that Respect is earned to be kept. There are people who are going to respect Obama and there are those who will not. Let each person decide their position, and stop bashing others for their position. I for one, give everyone 100 percent respect right from the start as I did to Obama, even though I do not agree at all with him. From there it is up to him to keep that respect, or loose it. It has been lost every year for the last 4 years. Sorry but Respect is a personal decision as well as you are all seeing. Just like I have lost all respect for the people of wisconsin who are recalling Walker. Why don't all of you look up the definition of Leader, and see where Walker and Obama end up in that definition.

Is this a just 4dummies blog?

""When all the data is looked at, since the current governor began, this state has exceeded national numbers""
This one is a perfect analogy of why you cannot blame Obama for the first few months of losses!! The first 6 months of this year were under the Doyle Admin budgets, no? So what exactly would anything Scott Walker did or did not do have to do with it?
Since Mr Walkers first budget has been law Wisconsin employment numbers have been dismal to say the least. So whatever numbers you want to crunch and point to are fine, it seems to me that you can make a passable argument no matter which path you want to follow.

BTW just so we are clear I dont believe that job losses in Wisconsin are created directly by Scott Walkers administration. My problem is that every time an employer talks aboout 50-100 potential jobs coming here in 3-5 years, there seems to be Mr Walker having a presser sticking his chest out, like its all becuase of him and his policies. Yet when companies are cutting jobs , he seems to be in KY, FL , NY, AZ, etc....
Especially when he was stating again last Friday that if he remains that his promise to "create" 250k new jobs in sconnieremains intact. A promise that NO ONE with any type of logic would have or should have believed that in these tough times that we EVER would have sniffed, no matter what policies he enacted.

Why dont we stick to what most intelligent conservatives believe, and so do I. Government doesnt create jobs(it employs millions of people) but it doesnt act as a magical medium of "creating jobs" from nothing, nationwide, or in state. Giving tax gifts(bribes) to keep or attract businesses to any state should be illegal. I feel that may actually inadvertantly be a good argument for a nationwide flat tax. To create a competitive environment based on productivity and geography rather than how much of our tax dollars can be given away to companies with no contracts or any type of binding agreements to stay for a certain amount of time.

BAd data, liberal data, left this liberal that.
Jan 2009(Obama took the Oath on the 20th)-800k+ jobs eliminated, all Obamas fault.

Feb 2009- 700k jobs eliminated

Mar 2009-800k

April 2009- 650k

May 2009- 400k

June 2009- 500k

I was wondering what policy enacted by left wing liberals was a direct cause of those job losses? Ill wait..

""Just think Sarah if another 1 million get jobs our country will be back were it started when Obama took office.""
RAF- Really? So the job losses that were taking place during the first six months of his presidency , you are placing those firmly on his resume? Funny logic.

January 2009, the president’s first month in office. Employers eliminated 4.3 million jobs during Obama’s first year, most of them coming in the first six months of his term. President Bush “lost” 3.6 million jobs during his last year in office. Taken together, those 24 months were the sharpest downturn in employment since the Great Depression. But since then, the nation has recouped 2.5 million jobs. And if wasn’t for the 600,000 fewer public employee jobs — virtually all of them eliminated in the past year after the “failed” stimulus program ended — the nation would be back within 1.2 million of the total number of jobs that existed on the day Obama took office.

Ah yes you are another one of those selective data type of liberals. When discussing current administration numbers you always want to bring up GW. But when talking about state employment numbers you only want to look at the last 6 months not the last 12 months. When all the data is looked at, since the current governor began, this state has exceeded national numbers. But that doesnt fit the template so the cherry pickers just want to grab the bad data. Keep up your selective data selections, what ever it takes to make you feel better about your partisan leanings. I on the other hand will look at all the data and make a judgment based on all information not just party feed talking points.

You have a strange grasp of reality, RAF. You don't get to choose only what you like or don't like as fact. As for me, I'll cheer for the guy who does the job of improving things, such as the recent job growth in the nation - I just wish we could say the same thing about the state, even with Walker. I would consider that a good thing, too. Something you seem incapable of recognizing and supporting no matter what Obama does. I'm not posting here to try to convince you - that would never happen. I just want to ensure that others recognize you for what you are - and it ain't pretty.

Speaking of farcical. Your initial retort of my comment ignored the fact mine was in responce to another posters comments. You decided you couldn't handle the facts and then took the low hanging fruit dem approach of denial and tossed GW into the comments, typical. Instead of grasping the economic numbers so far under the current administration are dismal at best you and those like you look to point blame anywhere but the current admin. It is well past time for voters to look at the performance during the past +3 years, looking at all aspects only 1 budget signed, nations financial downgrade, record deficit and debt levels, millions removed from the job numbers, millions added to the aide rolls, another bloated entitlement program created, a more divided electorate, and that is just a small part of the issues. But please keep living in the past and pretending everything is the fault of one guy who is no longer in office, this type of denial has become a habit for liberals.

RAF, your response deserves a repeat of a part of one of my earlier postings:
"I realize you like to frame your arguments as to how they best suit you, but many of us don't live in your world. And we are happy about that.
You R A Farce."
I understand that you can't bring yourself to admit any error. Perhaps someday you'll get over it. You just can't bring yourself to admit what your real intentions are when you spew your rhetoric, but many of us understand and know you for what you really are.

Allegiance to party over country? Making up comments never provided only displays the weakness of your earlier comments. Your lame dribble over military teachings got the respected answer it deserved, none. Is there any point to your off topic comments?

RAF, you must be right in insinuating that I don't read very well because I've read and read again your response to my earlier post asking about your allegiance to party over country and, well, I just couldn't find it. Now, I'm sure it's there, but I can't find it. Therefore, will you please state it again so it might be more obvious to me?

Even Rick Santorum who just finished 4th amoung Republican candidates is beating Obama in the lastest Rasmussen poll.
Americans seem to be of sound mind and ready to make this man a one termer.

Thats it? The best you can do to support your position is to attempt to denigrate me? I feel sorry for you if that is all you have to go with, another typical tolerant liberal.

Yes, in fact, there is. The story was about Obama, but if you took the time to read my comment, that was about you. I realize you like to frame your arguments as to how they best suit you, but many of us don't live in your world. And we are happy about that.
You R A Farce.

nomoreres when GW started in office there was 137 million people 16 and over employed when he left office that number was 141 million. I never claimed numbers never fell under bush but then if you took the time to read I never mentioned him at all since this story was about Obama. Was there anything else you wanted to drop your 2cents on or was that all?

RAF, you're too shortsighted in your analysis. Go back a couple of years before Obama became President and tell us how your buddy W did with the "jobs". It does take some time to fix such massive problems. Your "partisanship" seems to be showing again. Some people would actually welcome good news for the country regardless of who the president is. And, then again, some wouldn't. I don't remember the military teaching party over country. Do you?

Just think Sarah if another 1 million get jobs our country will be back were it started when Obama took office.

gandalf stated "a nonsense post reeking of negative vibes and no substance. You used to post halfway decently in terms of credible positions"
-
Typical liberal hypocritical position, do as I say not as I do...

from Feb 2 post by Midnight Ride "The CBO has already scored it as a disaster to the American economy."
Actually the truth is the exact opposite of your statement.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

Douglas W. Elmendorf, director of the CBO, wrote that REPEALING the health care law would INCREASE the deficit over the next 10 years "in the vicinity of $230 billion"

bella...appreciated your link. It's just too bad that many won't read beyond the first page. Statistics have been provided many times on this site, that list President Obama's accomplishments and yet they continue to deny. I have always respected President Obama and will continue to respect him and the Office he holds.
Others will continue to respect a serial cheater with questionable ethics and a corporate raider who was a part of what has happened to our economy.

RAF, as usual, a nonsense post reeking of negative vibes and no substance. You used to post halfway decently in terms of credible positions.

Belagio_Bound, all you are is a shallow-thinking, ideological name-caller.

"I'm proudly non-partisan"
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And seriously in denial. The medicare system has been full of waste for decades, like most every government program, but you think a magical improvement process that has never made any government effective will fix it. Well at least your denial is consistent.

RAF, by the way I don't wear partisan blinders, unlike you. I'm proudly non-partisan, and I seek appropriate solutions to societal issues based on reason, not based on pre-conceived partisan constraints.

RAF, your denigration of Medicare based on 'abuses, inefficiencies, failed policies, bad decisions...' seems to imply that those follies of the human condition do not exist in the free market, private world. By applying a continuous improvement methodology to the Medicare processes, it can become even more effective.

Just watched "Inside Job". Really makes me angry how these m%$^$s got away with destroying the economy and walked away with millions and billions of dollars. They should all be rotting in jail.

FOTH, no he is not.

"So I see that Fool and whzbng are the same person?"

You are way too smart for that sort of crap, FR4D. You have very a keen eye for observing reality but some of your conclusions are still in the prototype development stage. False statements like that might lead some folks to dismiss ALL of your comments for lack of credibility.

gandalf as you normally do excluding the reality of all the information to fit your perspective in no way makes it correct. There are many sources of information that shows the funding problems, abuses, inefficiencies, failed policies, bad decisions, lack of proper planning at initial stages, and countless other blunders involved with medicare. Your own source proves exactly what I said on the failed funding model from the start. I suggest you open your partisan blinders a tad bit wider and look at the real problems with this government program before thinking it is effective or a success.

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?opt...

To me health care has become much like the new America in general. If you are super rich, you'll have top notch coverage, and never have to worry about a thing. If you are super poor, the governmnet will take care of you to some extend...If you are in the middle class....Well, BEND OVER!

Only good comment I can offer about health care is that much like manufacturing, it is being out sourced because of awful government policies. Many US citizens are now going to India, Costa Rica, Singapore and other places to get a major treatment done. You can pay for a flight, surgery, and recover a few weeks at a 5* ocean resort, all for a fraction of the cost of what it would run in the US. 60 minutes had a great piece on that a few years ago. I know for myself, if I ever needed a major procedure (I have no insurance) I would go over seas. I think this trend will continue to grow big time, as prices here continue to explode out of control.

So I see that Fool and whzbng are the same person?
Foolwhz- Look I agree with you for the most part, but for you or anyone to act as if Insurance and other factors do not DIRECTLY influence the cost of care, and are a part of who gets what type of care, therefore causing our system to be sverely Broken, then I dont know what to tell you.

Could you please post some links of people coming here for life saving treatments that are poor, I would be interested to read.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/conlaw/...

The government also defends the provision as a stand-alone regulation of commerce. In particular, it argues that the election to self-insure is an economic act that Congress can regulate and hotly disputes the opponents' claim that some self-insured are non-cost-shifters, thus not subject to regulation:

The circumstances of this case well illustrate the flaws in respondents' premises. At the outset of this litigation, respondent Mary Brown thought she had made a rational choice to forgo insurance . . . . That belief proved incorrect. Ms. Brown and her husband recently filed a petition for bankruptcy, and they list among their liabilities thousands of dollars in unpaid medical bills, including bills from out-of-state providers

The government filed its opening brief defending the minimum coverage provision, also called the individual mandate, under the Commerce Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause, and Congress's taxing power. As we might expect, the government emphasizes the congressional findings in the act and the data supporting its argument that everyone is in the relevant market. It defends Congress's power to enact the provision principally as an essential part of a larger regulatory scheme:

The minimum coverage provision plays a critical role in that comprehensive regulatory scheme by regulating how health care consumption is financed. It creates an incentive for individuals to finance their participation in the health care market by means of insurance, the customary way of paying for health care in this country, and it works in tandem with the Act's other provisions to expand the availability and affordability of health insurance coverage. In particular, the minimum coverage provision is key to the viability of the Act's guaranteed-issue and community-rating provision.

""A government mandate is unconstitutional"" really? Could you point out that in the constitution please? If you are talking about the commerce clause I would fundamentally disagree.

RAF, by the way, you can verify the numbers for yourself at this non-partisan actuarial website: http://www.actuarialfoundation.org/progr...

RAF, as usual, you overstate your fallacious case by saying that 'Today that number [workers supporting each Medicare recipient] is closely approaching 2 people supporting 1.' The correct ratio is 4:1. With no changes to the Medicare financing model, the ratio will drop to 2:1 in 2030.

The fact that the financing model needs to be tweaked does not have anything to do with the effectiveness of the program itself and its success during the past 40+ years.

Take your ideological blinders off and perhaps you would be a little less isulting and a more likeable person.

Sarah -- to continue -- my opposition to Obamacare is founded on :

1) A government mandate is unconstitutional
2) It does not solve the cost issue
3) The additional people on the system, will affect availability with nothing planned to address the additional people
4) The consequences of 2 & 3 are not considered or have been dismissed by invalid arguements and assumptions.

I expect this columnist to write the same article when Romney is elected president.

Sarah -- thats not really the point. The point is that you address one issue (percieved or actual) and the solution creates a result that is far worse.

You shift a burden or solve a problem without consideration for the unintended consequences of the solution. There will be a delay in care. The governments solution will be standardized solutions for all, when medically speaking that its unreasonable to expect a better result. Without an increase of those in the medical field and an increase in preventative facilities, there will be delays. Delays will affect health or those that experience the delays (which could be some new people on the nationwide care and some existing on insurance plan care, as it will be a mix). Your results at best will be the same and at worse could spell death for some.

My point is that a universal system or Obamacare will not -- does not solve the fundamental problem. Cost and availability of care.

FR4D: Your comment to me presumes inferences far beyond what I actually wrote. I'd be happy to address your false premises but they are off-topic to my comment. My comment addressed this false premise: lack of insurance equals lack of healthcare. RAF's latest comment expanded on the primary topic of my comment.

The fundamental issue is the hyperinflation of healthcare costs. Attention given to subordinate issues is just crap piled on top to obfuscate this principle axiom. The concept is quite easy to understand but it is impossible to drill down to the truth with all of the deflection going on here...

whzbng you did mention the best point in all this. Nothing in obamacare goes to reduce the cost of care; it only attempts to address the costs of insurance. Without consumer pressure derived through competition via price for services like dental and vision care have medical prices will never be controlled. Instead all that is done is price shifting from patient to patient until a payer (from insurance) is found. That will never be successful for service for patients or wallets until addressed.

"Medicare (which is a very well-run and effective program...)"
-
Effective at what? That program has as much wasteful spending as the pentagon. It began life with ~18 people supporting 1. Today that number is closely approaching 2 people supporting 1. There is nothing in that model that is at all effective. But then again ignorance of the truth is the stalwart of many of your positions.

Good point whzbang-""
However not everyone has insurance, even when they can well afford it."" you forgot to mention that millions cant afford it, and millions more pay for it and still get denied coverage. You may be correct on the insurance vs care thing, but in our current system insurance is the link between decent care and minimal or no care, so like it or not it is a large part of our "system" as a whole.
I do like the point though, maybe we should just outlaw health insurance and pay as you go at a doctors office. HSAs would be a great idea , if insurance didnt work in lockstep with big pharmaceuticals to drive prices through the roof.Then maybe we could pay what a service is actually worth, then the free market would be between consumers(patients) and the hospitals(doctors), That would be a system that could actually work. Just take out the evil middle man who is really doing........... get my point? Insurance companies are useless and corrupt, and are what is broken about our system.

You are all confusing health care with Health insurance.
The US has one of the best health care systems in the world. Other come here for treatment from all over, rich or poor. Much charity work done here with needy patients from the third world for free. However not everyone has insurance, even when they can well afford it.

ezoner- Rationing is happening in the US right now, and you well know it!!

@fear: LOL! I knew that'd get a rise out of you :) Okay, maybe only 25%. And some of your posts are quite lengthy, so that's quite a bit of content for the average person to sift through. But I am glad that you care enough to get involved. Keep up the good work!

Gandy -- then you obviously dont go very often. My only question is how many people will die as a result of not being able to get care once the flood begins. What we will see is the people that already go for preventative care will now be in a waiting line as the ones with free care today switch from emergency room to doctor visits. The delays will have the same effect -- it will just shift the people that go to the doctor and the qty will be higher that get in late and now will require additional care. Its simple math. As of today it takes weeks to schedule an appointment for regular check-ups. You can get in pretty quick with strep or an infection. Yet many of those are viruses, which are untreatable. A cold is a virus that masks itslef with many of the same symptoms as an ear infection etc.. Anyone that thinks things will improve is blinded by ideology instead of simple logic.

RAF, by the way, I don't know anyone who goes to the doctor for a 'cold, sore tooth, blister, or a hang nail'. I do know plenty of people who count on going to the doctor for mammograms, colonoscopys, cholesterol and heart check-ups and other such preventative items that are shamefully out of reach for the uninsured. If you're going to spew your rigid libertarian/Ayn Randism nonsense, you should at least attempt to be reasonable in your statements.

RAF, your statement that 'making ignorant claims people are refused care is simply a talking point that is false, presented by those that want our country to be under a single payer option that the majority don't want.' proves how ill-informed you are on this issue.

Many polls, such as ones administered through CNN, AP-Yahoo, New York Times/CBS News Poll, Washington Post/ABC News Poll, and the Kaiser Family Foundation showed a majority in favor of a form of national health insurance compared to Medicare (which is a very well-run and effective program, especially compared to private insurance programs).

Unfortunately, most politicians from both major parties are in the backpockets of the status quo, which works for nobody except the insurance and medical provider industries.

My problem is re living a health care debate that I know isnt convincing people that are as set in their beliefs as I am. I just believe in it very strongly. I had to go back and count, maybe 25% and to bebes point I do copy and paste some because I know that so many refuse to follow links, so Iguess I figue maybe when the facts are there to read , then....

Half? , cmon Dave, live in the truth here!

Wow - almost 200 comments, and almost half are from fearandrhetoric. Some of you have a lot more time than I do! Have fun.

These are REAL people, REAL stories of how terrible our system is. I dare you to watch them and tell me how virtuous our system is.

LOS ANGELES, CA--Emily Cannon, is a young woman in the prime of life, the daughter of a registered nurse, and a former elementary school teacher whose life has ground to a halt since developing a chronic but treatable illness. She is being denied treatment by her insurance provider which would fix the problem and enable her to return to the active life she once enjoyed. Watch her story to see yet another example of the growing number of Americans (with insurance) being DENIED the care they need to make them better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh0mgiwXz...

CONCORD, CA--Bonnie Drew was a successful attorney working for the federal government authorizing benefits for people with disabilities and social security. After developing a rare disease and being denied adequate health insurance coverage, she now finds herself in the same boat as many of her former clients, and is advocating for a SinglePayer healthcare system in the U.S. Please post and share this story widely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4kEvdyIc...

SAN FRANCISCO, CA--Watch this story about how an RN of 30 years is dropped from her health insurance just before being diagnosed with two stage four cancers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2peGqRrjX...

CIGNA denies a liver transplant to save Natalines life:
In a stunning turn around, insurance giant CIGNA has capitulated to community demands, and protests that the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee helped to generate, and agreed to a critically needed liver transplant for Nataline Sarkisyan, a 17-year-old girl in the intensive care unit at UCLA Medical Center. Unfortunately, Nataline passed away yesterday just after six o'clock the same day of the massive protest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McGm00Mva...

Have any courage of your convictions and our great system, watch:

David Welch is an RN and a patient who was denied health insurance because of minor skin cancer on his nose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYedy10iU...

Nathan Wilkes, Nathan's son Thomas Wilkes was born with severe hemophilia, which puts him at risk for major internal bleeding and for which he must receive nearly $1 million in healthcare costs each year to avoid death or serious disability.

Watch this important video to see how the private health insurance industry cares only about profits, NOT patients.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNHNCScYp...

The Kai- Health care is a very contentious divisive issue. People strongly hold opinions on it and stand by their beliefs one way or another. When beliefs in an issue that is this important , most people(myself included) stand firm!
One of my younger brothers had a terrible staph infection and almost died because his employer that he worked at offered no coverage and he couldnt afford his own plan. He had to choose between eating , apartment, or health insurance. Then he didnt go to the doctor until he started getting very ill. He was hospitalized for 2 weeks with no insurance and was told he was a day away from possible death.
The next step, he recieves 50,000 in medical bills in the mail, next step personal bankruptcy.
That is this system of "freedom" that so many stand by. More and more lower middle class people/families are facing similar decisions, dont believe me? Take a look, its everywhhere.

poordick said"fear-You must be a girl-They're to only ones I know that could type that much"

Pretty bigoted statement bud, I happen to be a proud father of three, but whatvere makes your clock tick. Anyone who could make a silly assumption like that, I ma definitely glad to be on the other side of.

Looked back at my pal bebe who keeps calling me out for name calling, and in every one of ITs posts you see names , pot meet kettle.
Youll get no apology from this "nutbag" , because there is nothing to apologize for. I amswered you Canadian bankruptcy question, and I hold a point of view that causes you to label me as a person, which is your right to do!! I actually wouldnt expect an apology from you or anyone on an anonymous website, unless you called to attention a statistical mistake that I made. I will not apologize for my opinion, nor should you, no matter how out of touch you are.
In the end , no matter how you want to shape your argument, this nations economy will not recover until we make some major changes to care, OR place some major regulations on insurance companies.
91% oppose Obamacare? I do but I would like to see that link, and where that study was taken. Oklahoma? I dont think its legal to have blue eyes in that state!!

what a monster Ezoner , Bebe , and I created!!Muahahahaha, this actually turned into a full fledged health care debate, EXCELLENT!!
Fool- Really? Do you know a state worker, teacher or otherwise? Their coverage isnt as great as you would think. I can tell you that my private care covers the same amount as relatives of mine who are teachers have. There is no "special coverage". We in the private sector just pay a litlle more for our premiums. But remember that the taxpayers aren't "picking up the tab" for anything!! Stateworkers, police, fire, teachers, etc... perform valuable services to earn compensation, for you to insinuate that they are riding free like people on assistance like AFDC is offensive at best.
Just because you pay taxes does not make you the CEO of every person that works for the state of Wisconsin, get a clue!!

It is almost surprising that with how much time some bloggers spend on this website, they are still unable to recognize another person's valid point if it in any way conflicts with their own personal (non-critical) beliefs.

That is, unless the most active bloggers spend more time reading their own posts, patting themselves on their own backs, than reading someone else's posts and trying to understand their point of view.

What is it called when you choose not to be critical and you simply assume you are right and the other person is wrong? Ahh, I believe that is called ignorance.

No insurance and have never been refused healthcare. As a matter of fact, demonstrably greater access to healthcare. Ditto for many other folks I know. We represent 12% of Americans. What we DON'T have is unlimited, blank-check healthcare where someone else gets stuck paying our tabs, like the other 88% of Americans. Under these circumstances, everyone's cost for healthcare MUST hyperinflate because there is nothing (other than we 12%) creating the market conditions necessary to force costs down.

RAF, in the bubble.

I haven't failed to acknowledge anything. I have never stated a person could walk into any office to be seen for a cold, sore tooth, blister, or a hang nail. But making ignorant claims people are refused care is simply a talking point that is false, presented by those that want our country to be under a single payer option that the majority don't want.

RAF, when you state that 'All people in this country, not just American's are never refused life saving care.', you fail to acknowledge that emergency medical care is not a valid substitute for healthcare, which has a preventative component that is far less expensive than waiting until an emergency room visit is needed.

" Discussing actual issues"?
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Uhmmm your opinions are not issues, but nice try.

No mocking, as you should be able to understand by now. Discussing actual issues. You don't really want to do that, though, do you? You just want to argue. Well then, have a great day! Maybe Newt or Mitch can make you happy in November.

Bella yes your words were rhetoric, specifically because nothing you posted showed anything about what you stated' try telling that to the cancer patients who no longer gets her meds because her insurance stopped paying". But keep up with your inane attempt to mock this great country. The very same one that leads the world in research and medical technologies that help all countries in the world.

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-arti...

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Health/2007091...

oldandornerier, you'll be glad to know I am already out of your country. But by all means, keep adding such valuable statements to the discussion.

You think my statement about cancer patients was retoric? Really? Again...READ MORE. Start here: http://thefreshxpress.com/2011/01/ronald.... Then this one: http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/health_stor.... Keep reading. http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/figh.... Retoric or reality?

Bella - "your country would be in better shape. Keep thinking you are best in the world."

Anyone who refers to America as "your country" should get the hell out.

I used to be ammused by the lefts ideas, now I just hate them.

bella...I think you need to follow your own advice.

" I think you are pretty adept at using retoric to cause confusion", says the same person that just stated " try telling that to the cancer patients who no longer gets her meds because her insurance stopped paying". Yeah no rhetoric in that position. Are you really sure you want to use cancer care and treatment as your latest bellwether to support you wild claims?

RAF - get real. "Health Care" refers to the overall access to quality medical care. As for not denying life saving medical care to anyone, try telling that to the cancer patients who no longer gets her meds because her insurance stopped paying. You cannot honestly believe that because emergency rooms have to treat everyone who walks in, that actually means everyone gets life saving care? I think you are pretty adept at using retoric to cause confusion. Maybe you should take a minute and focus less on how to "get back at" someone with snappy comments and focus more on actually reading what they are saying. You could learn something.

Lastly bella states "The problem we are discussing is that a lot of Americans do not have access to them."
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Completely false. All people in this country, not just American's are never refused life saving care. It has been a law for decades and ignored by the left on a consistent basis.

Interesting hypocrisy only a few posts apart.

First you stated "But right now we are discussing health care. Which in America is vastly inferior to that of countries America likes to compare herself with."

Now you state " If your point is that America has excellent medical professionals and can perform surgeries that doctors in several others can't, then that is also true."

I suggest instead of talking in circles you pick a position and try to stick with it.

RAF, that's an odd article to share, considering it proves my point. If you have money, you can pay for private care. If your point is that America has excellent medical professionals and can perform surgeries that doctors in several others can't, then that is also true. I never argued otherwise. There are actually many countries in Europe that send patients to the States to have certain procedures done - and those costs are usually covered by the European country. For elective procedures, or procedures that can be done in the home country, the individual will have to pay themselves, of course, if they choose to go abroad. America has the best medical research and surgeons in the world in many fields. The problem we are discussing is that a lot of Americans do not have access to them.

bella stated " You'd better never leave home, because you'd be in for a rude awakening."
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Too late! I have spent ~5 of the last 25 years living outside North America; 75% in Europe and the remainder in East Asia. During all that time I never once thought I was in a better place than my homeland.

"But right now we are discussing health care. Which in America is vastly inferior to that of countries America likes to compare herself with."
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Yeah okay, ironically the premier of Newfoundland and Labrador of Canada had a different take on that.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/artic...

RAF...you amuse me. Maybe if you and some of your politicians were a little more open to input from people who think differently than you, your country would be in better shape. Keep thinking you are best in the world. You'd better never leave home, because you'd be in for a rude awakening.

Yes bella that is all reflected you previous comments, "Good riddance".

RAF, to clarify. I never said your country was inferior. I am arguing that your country's health care system is inferior. Your country and many of its residents have much to be proud of. There are a lot of great things about America. But right now we are discussing health care. Which in America is vastly inferior to that of countries America likes to compare herself with.

RAF, did I hit a nerve? I still pay taxes in Wisconsin. I can put in my two cents, I think. Free speech and all, right?

bella for a person that claims our country is so inferior why do you take the time post blogs on a local paper where you no longer reside?

Oh RAF....statistics do not always give the full picture. Are these procedures with long wait times URGENT? Or are they non-emergencies for which the wait time inflicts little less than inconvenience upon the patient? Are there private options for those patients with extra money who wish to pay for convenience? Waiting time is not always an indication of a big problem, although it of course presents some frustration. Personally, I don't mind a bit of wait time for non-emergencies as long as I don't have to deal with insurance companies and large bills. The trade off is worth it to me. I guarantee you that no Canadian cancer patient or AIDS patient will ever be told that they will no longer receive treatment because their insurance plans lifetime cap has been reached. I think you conveniently forget the fact that people with money to pay for private medical care have that OPTION also in countries with universal health care. There are many people also in those countries who cannot afford private health care. Thank goodness there is a system in place to make sure they still get the treatment they need, albeit at a little slower pace than we want if the medical condition is such that a wait period is acceptable.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pete...

SaraB1, you statement was right on point and very much accurate. Midnightrider, the statement about it "being good until you get sick" is ridiculous. Having lived 17 years in the States and 30 years in various countries in Europe, I feel pretty qualified to call you out on that statement. Get sick in Europe, and you WILL get help. No one will call an insurance company to find out if they are going to treat you or not. They will actually leave that decision up to the doctor. Gasp!

SarahB1, what an absurd statement. One thing about socialize medicine line Canada and England is that it is good until someone gets sick. Obamacare will lead to rationing, higher taxes and less economic growth. The CBO has already scored it as a disaster to the American economy.

91% in resent Harris poll disappove of the individual mandate which is the entire reason for Obamacare.

We also have a lawless President not in Georgia. Not defending his citizenship.

http://www.thenationalpatriot.com/?p=413...

blow by blow of the case

SarahB1 did you think through your comment? You just stated those from other countries that have the ability and resources to come to our country to attend one of our universities didn't complain about getting something in their own country. Why don't you take a trip to one of "their" countries and ask a person that can't afford to come her and and attend our schools what they think.

"Thanks for the link Fool I will be checking it out. Moyers has integrity, unless you watch Fox they will tell you he is an ideologue because he works for PBS."
.
Funny you say that because I was watching the faux news papa bear show one night (Bill the pin head O'Reilley) and you nailed it...Moyers was a pin head, ideologue! When I heard that, I HAD to check out his show, and have been a fan since! Notice how Faux has put the libertarian view (John Stossel, and Andrew Napoleton) in the closet now? You rarely see those guys at all in the prime time now. I'm sure that's sheer coincidence being an election year, hahaha. Soon they might as well just cal it the Mitt Romney network!

Lefties and Rightwingers...read this: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/20.... Maybe it's time to just stop all the stupid retoric and blatantly false statements that are being made on both sides. Read something. Understand what is actually happening. And give this president his due respect for having accomplished more than anyone seems to grasp simply because Obama isn't being the typical loudmouth that most US politicians are.

I'll trade you Jan Brewer for Scott Walker. They're both very much alike. If you don't want her, please send us those who were instrumental in the recall process. We need to get the ball rolling here in Arizona. I promise you great weather.

@oneday-move to Great Britain with one of your grandparents-when they are seriously ill and the British government won't approve a treatment for them that could truly be life saving-let us all know then if it is "truly that bad"....I will await your response eagerly

@oneday-just curious-when do you ever see an apology from a liberal/left wing nut bag???
I have been waiting forever-will it be you???? Please say it's true..................

It is off topic but I felt it was important to acknowledge that bebe posted something true. It happens so seldom.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/...

"Great Britain-the government decides who gets what care and when-if it is too expensive-" This statement from bebe is actually true. But there is always the whole story.http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1916570,00.html
Even though Britian's system has it's drawbacks, over all, the people are satisfied with it more than Americans are with our system http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/Healthca...

@fear-Oh I'm sorry-I appolagize-you are a libertarian!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@fear-Question Of The Day-Exactly how much do you get paid to blog for all your liberal interests??? I want that job................

Respect is earned, not given. While the OFFICE of the President deserves the respect earned over the last 200-odd years, the current President has earned none.

fear-You must be a girl-They're to only ones I know that could type that much.

To see why this President is not respected look no further than the next headline-
"Obama declares war on religion"
This guy has declared war on middle class values to an extent to make Walker look like a piker.

deny coverage-gee, if you want a national health care system you ain't seen nothing yet as the saying goes when it comes to denying care-all you have to do is look at Great Britain-the government decides who gets what care and when-if it is too expensive-even though it may be cost effective-too bad so sad-you don't get it-and your poor grandma,grandpa,spouse,child -suffers or dies because of it-yeah,that's what I want-you bet!

Since were on spelling, try punctuation and capitalization. Geez how petty!! LOL.
bebe- Why do you enjoy being dictated to by an unregulated insurance market? They can charge you whatever they want and deny you coverage for whatever reason they want. Most insurance companies spend millions and millions in salary trying to DENY coverage to paying customers!!! Why would anyone support a system that allows such "fallacies"? As a paying customer should a person be denied cancer treatments because a multi-trillion dollar industry doesnt want to live up to their end of the bargain? Sounds like freedom to me!

Socialistic blah, blah, blah. Thats it, really? My spelling? really?
bebe if you actually read a little more slowly you would see that I do not like being labeled anything because labels are for show and for people that dont want to argue an issue on its merits. Which you are obviously incapable of doing. EVery single response to anything is ended with liberal this or socialistic that.
Government intrusion? you favor private intrusion. Personally I favor a system that allows a doctor to tell me what I need and be able to perscribe meds or treatment without an insurance adjustor getting involved. I also do not want the government involved either, except in paying for the system. In this nation if the system were socialized , I would want a system that would be CARE based only, not beurocracy, not profit based, CARE based.
You can label all you like , but the fact remains that our system is based on what you insurance wants to pay for not what a doctor thinks may or may not be whats best for your health.
Why should people continue to pay insurance premiums and then be denied coverage anyways?
Here is what I understand that you seem not to. No SYSTEM is perfect, not socialized , not privatized. I simply favor a system that allows all folks to get adequate health care based on need, since everyone needs care. Its not something that you choose, like driving a car. At some point or another EVERY SINGLE human being needs care , so why shouldnt we all pay for it? You pay higher insurance premiums based on other peoples choices, whats the difference?
BTW what happens when an uninsured person goes in when they NEED care? They go directly to the ER!! Then those beds are taken up by folks that may actually need them.
I simply favor a morally superior system , not a profit based one. SO there go ahead label away.

fear-the grand fallacy you have is that you only believe the statistics that fit into your socialistic mind set-and never mind whether those statistics/studies are actually valid and true or whether they are biased and slanted.
You want socialized medicine-everyone gets that-and you will accept no statement that goes against that

@fear-you are not stubborn and dug in????? You are the epitome of reason??? You also believe NOTHING but your own rhetoric-so please spare us all the self-righteousness,platitudes and elitism-because as you have told us so many times you are obviously always correct and right.
Also got a HUGE LAUGH out of your statement that you consider yourself a libertarian-quite the statement from someone who espouses some of the most socialistic viewpoints I see and wants massive government intrusion into our daily lives with socialized medicine-that's a libertarian viewpoint?????Maybe all that time you spend in school you should maybe pick up a dictionary and find out what a libertarian means-maybe that will also improve your spelling when your not busy cutting and pasting

fearandrhetoric4dummies: They may reconsider that opinion after hearing him spend the first five minutes graphically demonstrating the hypocrisy of President Obama and the next twenty letting conservative David Stockman tell his story. Moyers' personal politics always takes a back seat to truth, which neither "side" wants known entirely. (Ron Paul notwithstanding. :-)

One thing is bebe I understand that by having this go-round with you and ezoner over health care will not change your mind or anyone elses, because no matter what STATISTICS I post you are dug in, and that is certainly your right. I havent even talked about our system in the Moral sense, instead I would rather stand on statistical facts. Per capita spending, bankruptcy , life expectancy, infant mortality are statistics that are very hard to spin politically.

civilized conversation Bebe? Looking back at your posts , you really consider your language to be an attempt at civilized conversation? Id hate to see uncivilized!!

So if people spend 200% more per capita in a dramatic recession, that doesnt "necessarily" lead to more bankruptcy? Really?
And dont you think that if we pay twice as much our system should at least be as good statistically as those who pay half as much?

Bebe- seriously stop with the whole name calling sensitivity please, you are as guilty of it as anyone. You are getting no sympathy, you and others call me all kinds of names in the book, so spare me the whiny name calling stuff. I say what I say, you dont like it, get some kleenex and make an argument.

Business week is slanted? Reuters? Fox news uses them all the time to break stories. Keep reaching.

Again-the fact that we spend more on health care does not automatically translate that it causes more bankruptcy.

@fear-As usual-someone attempts to conduct a civilized discussion with you and the insults start to flow when your arguments are refuted-"silly misdirected indivisual"-the multiple typos are pretty surprising I might add coming from someone who claims to volunteer in the public school system as much as you say you do-the years you cite are not the same years as were used in the original Harvard study-and it has also been shown that the ability to file for bankruptcy is pretty comparable in both countries. And it is amazing how the liberal sites you use are always the correct ones and the conservative sources of information are never to be believed.

bebe53 Feb 1, 2012 at 10:45 a.m. refering to Fearand(endlessrhetoric:
"I will be expecting the usual cut and paste fusillade shortly from you."
And there you have it!

""Even if you accept the premise that we spend more on health care than other countries"" not a premise bebe, its an irrefutable fact, more than twice as much as most other industrialized nations!! And statistically our care is worse in most every arena. Yet is TWICE as EXPENSIVE!!

Thanks for the link Fool I will be checking it out. Moyers has integrity, unless you watch Fox they will tell you he is an ideologue because he works for PBS.

http://www.bankruptcycanada.com/bankstat...

Bebe- The REASON for higher bankruptcy rates in Canada? SImple , its easier to do so. Certainly not because of Health care!! I challenge you to find an outlet that isnt a conservative think tank that has an article stating such things. Good luck.

It sure seems to me that Canadians are having similar problems to the US in their economy, other than health care, mostly bak related READ:
http://www.hoyes.com/blog/category/bankr...

Try to remembert that the global crisis hit us all, and the crisis in the financial markets was cause by de regulation of banks, lifting of lending standars, and crony Capitalism. Health care is more of a personal problem in this country, and it affects those who can just barely afford it, I have a suggestion, if youget sick drop yourinsurance. By law you cannot be denied care. If everyone did this we could force private insurance out of business.

Personal Bankruptcy Rate Falls, By Consumer Proposals Increase Dramatically
Personal bankruptcies dropped from 116,381 to 92,694, a drop of over 20%. But consumer proposal filings increased by almost 20%, increasing from 35,331 to 42,314.

So why did personal bankruptcy filings drop, while consumer proposal filings increased? Two reasons:

First, the economy in Canada was somewhat better in 2010 than it was in early 2009, as we were still in “recovery mode” after the credit crisis and stock market correction in late 2008. A better economy generally means lower unemployment, higher consumer spending, and generally fewer personal bankruptcies. So it’s not surprising that the total number of insolvencies (bankruptcies and proposals) dropped, and that the number of personal bankruptcies also decreased significantly.

What does the conservative think tanks tell you about per capita costs being twice as much heree bebe, is that a liberal lie too? Or just "fuzzy math"? You are such a silly misdirected indivisual.

Even if you accept the premise that we spend more on health care than other countries,how does that automatically translate into the premise that therefore it must be the leading cause of bankruptcy???THe answer is-that it doesn't -and it has been proven so-again-Why the higher rate of bankruptcy in Canada as compared to the U.S-you continue to avoid the question because you can't explain it away

FYI: Bill Moyers is back with his new program, "Moyers & Company". His ongoing PBS series addresses the issues being discussed here. So far my favorite is his January 20th episode, "Crony Capitalism". Anyone wanting to learn the key facts being ignored, concealed or colored by mainstream media will appreciate Moyers' journalistic integrity. This is good stuff. http://billmoyers.com/series/moyers-and-...

The American enterprisE institute?? That is your"source", and you accuse others of "liberal lies"?? Because that isnt a Conservative think tank is it?

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. I can find a thousand sources full of NUMERICAL facts and your AEI will find a way to twist them. The facts CLEARLY point to the American system being immoral and wrong, AND TWICE AS EXPENSIVE TO BOOT!!

The American system is broken , expensive, and is being outperformed world wide.
I will copy and paste STATISTICS, because unlike you I like FACTUAL numbers , not some kind of blind partisan labelling rhetoric.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/OE...

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the United States spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product on health care every year than any other country. Yet, the United States ranks 37th out of 191 countries in the WHO's ranking of health care systems. It's difficult to imagine any consumer spending that much more money on a product only to be handed something that ranks 37th in quality.

When compared with other developed countries, the U.S. performs worse on life expectancy and infant mortality [source: Carey et al.]. It also tops the list of deaths deemed "preventable" with adequate early care and diagnosis [source: Harrell]. The typical U.S. citizen has far fewer doctor appointments each year than citizens of other countries, yet pays more for the privilege. When an American citizen spends the night in the hospital, it costs 5.6 times more than it would cost a person in Japan [source: Clifton]. And to top it all off, the U.S. spends $2,797 more per person every year than other industrialized countries, even though 47 million of those people are uninsured [source: Clifton].

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/family/why-...

Yeah-liberal lie-that study was found to be flawed by several researchers including David Dranone,Michael Millen and Aparna Mathur of the American Enterpris Institute.
The data shows that for comparable years that the Harvard Study used the rates of bankruptcy filings by individuals was higher in Canada than they were in the U.S-so explain again how nationalized health care will lessen personal bankruptcy.
I will be expecting the usual cut and paste fusillade shortly from you

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/2...

http://www.medicalbillingandcoding.org/m...

In its Health at a Glance 2011 report, out today, the OECD shows that the United States spent about $7,960 per person on health care in 2009 – about 2.5 times the average of the countries studied. It also found that health spending in the U.S. has increased faster than in all other high-income OECD countries since 1970, even accounting for population growth

http://capsules.kaiserhealthnews.org/ind...

Canada healthcare? Recently an official from the Canadian government came to America for a surgical procedure because he didn’t want to wait 18 months for the operation in Canada.

Reuters) - Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system, according to a report released

In 2007, health spending was $7,290 per person in the United States, more than double that of any other country in the survey.

Australians spent $3,357, Canadians $3,895, Germans $3,588, the Netherlands $3,837 and Britons spent $2,992 per capita on health in 2007. New Zealand spent the least at $2,454.

This is a big rise from the Fund's last similar survey, in 2007, which found Americans spent $6,697 per capita on healthcare in 2005, or 16 percent of gross domestic product.

In America we still have Greed Care in place masquerading as healthcare.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnfl...

Liberal lie? Harvard researchers say 62% of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007 were caused by health problems—and 78% of those filers had insurance , keep reaching bebe.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-...

http://asheham.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/...

http://www.neutralsource.org/content/blo...

a myth? Lets see your sources.

FACT: The feds are not doing enough at the border, not a party thing, just fact, if they were the border states would not have to take it upon themselves. No longer are the Mexican drug cartels creating crime scenes just a few miles inside of the U.S. I saw a recent report about the cartel crime and the story was from Colorado Springs, hardly close to the border. The feds need to admit they screwed up long ago by allowing the Mexicans an open door by not having a law in place that states you must have a social security number to get a job in America, instead of a non-citizen tax I.D. number.

The study that claims that health care costs is the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country have been refuted by multiple researchers-another liberal lie to justify Obamacare.If that is true -how does one explain the fact that the rate of personal bankruptcy in Canada-that has your beloved national health care-has been higher in many years than that of the U.S-which has had no system of national health care-

This is one of those issues Ezoner where I look at what is HIGHT and what is WRONG. Getting proper care should be a basic human right, not provided based on your rability to pay. The people most adversely affected arent poor people, its middle class families who can barely afford to pay!!
Another problem with our current system is that most of the nations that have a "culture" that supports social medicine, that are BTW democracies as well. Canada, England, Germany, Japan, France to name a couple pay HALF as much per capita as we do!! I just see no other arguyments to be made in favor of our current system, other than some philisophical idea of whats free, as if a socialized medicine system would somehow take away your personal freedom.

NOW Ezoner, if you make your cases like that I can respect that point of view , because that is a completely legit Point of view, and made without labels or vitriol, thank you!!

That being said , after reading your post I couldnt disagree more. Maybe government isnt the best at running social programs, BUT verterans have governement controlled health care , so do the elderly(medicare) and those programs, while certainly are not perfect as a matter of a fact they are quite flawed, how could our health care be any worse than it is? I am all for free markets, BUT, the difference here to me is quite clear. EVERYONE needs HEALTH CARE, its not something that you want or desire. There is not a person in this nation that at somepoint or another will not get care from a doctor/hospital in their life. That is why (in my opinion) we need to have social medicine.

How on Earth could the governemnt screw up the system any worse than private insurance companies? We live in a nation where the NUMBER 1 cause of personal bankruptcy in this country is health care costs.. Is that the elixir for a great nation? est. 20,000 people a year die in this country because of the lack of insurance, or health care, why is that an acceptible premise? So many right wing republicans and others(me), happen to be opposed to aboortion but once a person is born then they no longer care? I just dont get it. Poor people deserve to get adequate health care just the same as someone who is wealthy.

Fear -- what I was saying is there is a continum and most people do not swing all left and all right, although I do see people in this forum. I would agree-- I am more right than left. Which is why I cannot accept a socialized medical care system. As a part of the government budget, social programs consume the largest segment, healthcare in the US is one of if not the largest segment of our economy. I do not want to turn over my care to government based upon their track record with the programs they already control. It will be a complete disaster. I believe that other coutries have solutions, cultures and processes that are better suited to a socialized system. We as a country are not and it violates the fundamental premise of a capatlistic free society. So there are economic and socio-economic reasons that a centralized- socialized system will fail in theis country, and I honestly do not have faith nor trust that our government will deliver any such system with any level of success.

Kiowa- Appreciate your post. I am falling further and further in to being a libertarian. However I dont like any label, even that one. I really try hard to judge each issue on its merit and make my decision based on my own idea of what I think is right and wrong. That being said I am with you on your entire post.

What I think would be productive , would be to explain to these people that want to lay everything on the plate of the current administration as the devil incarnate, that the problems in our economy are so far above and beyond this administration. I get angered , not because I believe that Obama has been or is a great president, but moreover because so many folks want to talk about him like it is HIS fault(obama). When the blame is so wide and far reaching that we should go allthe way back to the very beginning of the Reagan administration and stretching until present day.
That being said Kiowa always appreciate the honesty.

@miltonlib-no,that is not what I said-what is disgusting is when he has invited guests-such as The Supreme Court Justices -at the State of The Union Address and berates them in front of millions on national TV with no opportunity for them to defend themselves.When he invites Paul Ryan to a national press conference-who is sitting in the front row at the time-and he berates him in front of millions-again with no opportunity to defend himself.THis President constantly shows visible disdain for anybody who dares to disagree with him-he is intolerant,arrogant and disrepesctful and it is plainly seen by all-and I truly believe that if debated in public by Paul Ryan to talk about his economic policies that Paul Ryan would have him for lunch and spit him out-and the President knows it which is why he does what he does

bebe53 @ 10:22am yesterday: "The President used the bully pulpit of The State of The Union to publically disrespect the Supreme Court Justices;He used the bully pulpit of a press conference to publically disrespect Paul Ryan for his proposal to change Medicare,etc;he uses the bully pulpit to publically disrespect banks,corporations and any other big business and then complains about job creation;he uses his bully pulpit to publically disrespect anyone earning over $250,000 to promote his class warfare agenda when there are 34 people on his personal office staff who are on arrears on their federal taxes- and the left questions why he is dis-respected??????????????"

So, basically, what you're saying is that you don't like it when the President of the United States publicly talks about things that he believes are problems right now or may be problems in the future. What is a President supposed to do? Isn't it his job to address things that he and the majority of the American people see as problems? I believe so.

kio, well said.
che, please read kio's blog until you understand it.

I find Che's post vulgar and disrespectful.

Very well said, Kiowamohican! The greatest barrier to forming consensus among The People and moving our country forward is two sides blindly believing that prosperity will follow if the good tribe is victorious over the evil tribe. Oligarchs don't care because, either way, they will gain.

fear&rhetoric:
I agree with most of what you said in regards to my posting. As I mentioned, I am not one to defend Bush, because much of what he did trampled ALL OVER the principals held dear by libertarians; like myself.
I just find it problematic that when one does not agree with a President, they take the hatred to such extreme levels that ALL respect for the office is thrown out the window. For all the charges you can make a case against Bush for, one must keep in mind that many of those decisions were voted on by super congressional majorities, or upheld by the courts...That's not to say they are right, but there still is a system of checks and balances. Even though the Executive branch CLEARLY has become FAR AND AWAY, WAY more powerful then any of the other branches, which are suppose to (in theory) hold equal power as a branch.
.
I am not a fan of either Bush, or Obama. Both have been AWFUL Presidents, and no one can make a logical case to say either has done over all good for the country. Nonetheless they are the democratically elected leader of our country. Only a few generations back, one would have HUGE respect for the office, even if they voted against that man. Now the rhetoric is so extreme that each extreme (and the extreme seem to be GROWING) pretty much has ZERO respect for their President, if they are in the other party. In last weeks State of the union address, you had a (R) congressman hold a press conference to announce he would not be attending, because it would be just more of the same. That is beyond shameful. It's your duty as an elected representative to be there. If you don't agree, then express your opposition to it after at least hearing it. Years ago a stunt like that would be so frowned upon, that no representative would even dare to even attempt it, because they'd be voted out of office in a public landslide. Now the guy will be looked at like a hero to his hard core right base.
.
It's a real sad state of affairs. People are so divided now that they can't even see that both parties are entrenched in a giant oligarchy between big business and governmnet. Both parties LOVE big governmnet and corporate welfare...What party is in power, determines who, and what entity will get the biggest stake.

Gee Che, real classy post it really showcases your open and intelligent world view.
Stay classy

What I will say and continue to say about my own views. THEY ARE MINE. Left, right , center I DO NOT CARE about what wing or "position you or anyone wants to paint me.
Support the Obama agenda? Lets see, Health care? NO WAY!! Just a huge giveaway to insurance companies that have torched our system anyways. Socialized medicine doesn't make you a socialist nation, that is a false label and statistics prove that socialized medicine works! Private insurance is broken, inarguable. My position is based on what I believe is morally correct.
Taxes? I do NOT support the presidents position on taxes either. He should have had taken time and removed loopholes. While I agree that people should not be pubished for being successful, they also should not pay margianl rates that are in many cases less than haldf that of their workers!
Trade? NO!! My poition on trade has been and always will be that more people should be working HERE and our policies should NOT give tax breaks to companies that move jobs to China. If they want to move to avoid wages and taxes, that is their peroggative, but they shouldn't be allowed to do so tax free. At least not to nations with zero labor/environmental standards. A level playing field for labor then lets compete. Lift all tariffs and let there be free trade when all nations abstain to labor regulation, and child labor laws. When MORE AMericans are working and making middle class wages there is more Tax revenue and there will be less debt/defecit and less of a push for wealthy folks to pay more.
Government spending is atrocious. Not the essentials though , there is so much waste and pork all over this nation it makes me sick and THAT along with an unecessarily bloated military are the things that lead to calls for huge cuts in essential programs.

Dontr tell me I am a shill for Obama, there is no way I could vote for him again, and I won't. I will vote third party. Hopefully independant Ron Paul, Buddy Roemer run. They are the 2 republicans that have ideas and are honest about positions. They do NOT change based on the lunar calendar or a poll. here are many things that I disagree with RP on but he is honest. Buddy Roemer(Republican) is running on a movement of removing citizens united and prvate dollars from politics. THAT is something I can relate to. A guy who wants to run on uninfluenced positions by lobbyists.

Zoom, You clearly do not understand simple logic. I was simply stating the liberal folks began all this trash talk about our elected leaders and now they are crying foul1 Does the simple but clear logic evade you?

Ezoner- You can paint me with whatever brush or label you want to. I hold different views on each issue. If it happens that I fall left on more than right, so be it. I refuse to subscribe to a pre defined ideology.
Because you support a womans right to choose that makes you independent? You are as close to a "far right" conservative that posts on here. That being said , getting away from labels that I hate, I enjoy discussing things with you because even when you are condescending you are making a legit point(most of the time), I would rather hear that, than people talking about flag pins, and islamic presidents.
Just because you and some others like you(bebe) like to label(vato) everyone to a specific ideology, really means nothing to me. i get tired of the labelling, and it would be so much easier to discuss on an issue by issue basis and the merits of each issue, instead of this constant right v left banterthat so many of you are quick to engage in.(RAF)

"Have we forgotten the way the liberals treated President George W. Bush? They are responsible for lowering the bar to the level of total disrespect for the office of the presidency."

This is the logic of an 8 year old. Are you trying to say that two wrongs make a right? Where is your personal responsibility?

I agree this disrespect has gone too far on BOTH sides and we need to be more civil toward others opinions. I don't necessarily agree the Tea Party supporters are the worst, I think there are some poor examples on both sides. The comments by many of the posters on this and other sites are so disrespectful of our chosen leaders, I am thankful I am not in your circle of friends, I would not want to stoop to your level of hatred.
I personally disagree with most of President Obama's direction, but he is still our chosen leader and I have to respect the fact that he won the election. That should be enough to warrant people's respect. Make your points on their own merits instead of ripping into another person's opinion or viewpoint.
It is time to make some positive changes in how we talk about each other.

JStaff why was my comment removed? In my opinionion those noted have been ignorant, and racist in their comments. Whether they pick ticks or tote guns, or live in trailers I admit is open for discussion.

thekai, your 11:19 post should be required reading for all posters. I agree that the vitriol from the radical right and left on these posts are shameful. I also think that the worst hateful, name-calling speech comes from the so-called conservative tea party types and libertarians. They specialize in calling everybody who disagrees with their entrenched ideology either 'communists' or 'socialists' as if they know what either of those 'isms' actually are.

Fear -- your continued support of Obama's agenda -- which has certainly a European socialist ring to it, is why so many do not see you as a centrist. Your comments -- mostly support a far left agenda opposed to a centrist view. You sometimes are overly critical of conservative positions. I support a womens right to choose, yet when it comes to economics, the laft does not grasp simple economics. There are some on the right as well. I view the economic nonsencicles as progressives. Which I believe Romney is one of. I could never support Romney and will not vote at all if there is no true caparist conservative running. This will be the 1st time in 40 years that I will choose to not vote as I see voting as a duty. But I cannot bring myself to sellecting from 2 people that I believe are unachievers, under performers, and in direct conflict with a captalist free society. I will not vote for the lessor of 2 evils and want a true conservative to enter the election. I believe that the election would be a walkaway if that type of person were one of the final 2 people and assuming the economy is status quo as of today.

As for repect -- I respect the office, but given Obamas divide and conquer approach and total lack of civility, I hold no respect the man. Romney is a fake baby kisser and Obama is a liar and cheat -- he will do nearly anything to win. Will I get what I think this country needs. Probably not. But I am now old enough I will not settle for less.

I respect the Office. I can respect the person that was elected to that office. That does not mean I have to like him or his policies. I do not believe I should be called a racist because I do not agree with his policies but that is one consistant complaint from the Left. I have a right to my opinion just as you have a right to your opinion and that is called respect also, but, there are a few who out there that have no respect for anyones point of view if it doesn't automatically agree with theirs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiU6qYB50...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc8Wc1CN7...

fear does well as a paid shill for the liberal/socialist wing of the country

Obama's failures just shows you can't be a President by on the job training. He'd have a better chance if he just loved America for what it is and how great it is and not try to change it to model failing Europe.

onedayatatime
your elitist reponse only proves, what? Obama faked on education? Where is his proof?
Why hasn't the media found any buddies or roomates or old girlfriends?? Writings, thesis, grades for that matter.
They sure know how to find them on the GOP.
Experience. Brewer knows how to run a state.
Obama knows how to sue a state. 100 days as a junior senator.

Jan Brewer still to this day more qualified to be President and run this country successfully.

All four GOP candidates have more experience then Obama to be President.

you dont have to watch fox, but you certainly are good at parroting their talking points, verbatim.

Like to make a friendly wager on that?

Sadly, I don't have to watch Fox news to see Obama for what he is. On the bright side, Obama's span as a failed leader is almost up

Mteg is channeling fox news literally. By your way of thinking none of our forefathers are patriots bc they never wore a flag lapel pin, right?? LOL
Bowing to foriegn leaders? Another bunch of partisan CRAP. So because he shows respect to other leaders nations and actually understands culture he is somehow BOWING? What is he supposed to do mteg have the leaders of every nation kiss his converse? Sho nuff!!
Seriously your hyperbole is very un intelligent and very stupid, very stupid indeed! But good for a laugh!!

""Have we forgotten the way the liberals treated President George W. Bush? "" not at all Honor, they were awful to him. Having voted for him twice I remember it clearly, and it was disgraceful. But to me ,the level of vitriol seems so much worse this time around. Maybe its because Bush administration policy is what took me away from hard conservatism, and to the independant isle. I will never again stand behind a political party, ever!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmHtGQq-z...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QJ41o0FV...

http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Barack-...

Obama is not only a joke, but dangerous and radical. Any president that would bow before another leader (and not out of a tradtional respect such as Japan), refuse to wear the American symbol, embrace Islam but chastise Christianity, etc... Deserves no respect. Our forefathers are probably turning over in their graves right now.

Have we forgotten the way the liberals treated President George W. Bush? They are responsible for lowering the bar to the level of total disrespect for the office of the presidency. Unfortunately, they are pulling the same crap with Gov. Walker. As I have said in the past, they need to be careful of the fights they begin because the other side will not only continue them, but they will push it even further.

Bunbun, we dont agree on much, but I respect your comment and its honesty.

""but at least he was proud enough of this country to wear a American Flag pin."" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I love that one!! BTW Obama does wear it, but what on Earth does a flag pin have to do with Patriotism or anything for that matter???? What is wrong with you? That comment tells me that mteg never turns off Fox news.LOL

Not gonna argue credentials between Brewer and Obama that speaks for itself.
What I will say is that Brewer is a LIAR. She described the meeting between her and the president as very cordial right after it happened. Then in her book in an attempt to sell them and grandstand she tells a completely different story. Not that I am surprised.
It doesnt matter what some folks say though they will alwys back a person based on political affiliation, period. No matter how much they Lie, cheat, or steal.

If you people had a shred of honesty, you would note that most of the posts decrying lack of respect for the prez usually end with calling people names. I have no respect for Obama as a politician but have respect for the office he currently holds. Every topic on this board is full of textbook examples of posters writing as if they are paragons of openmindedness all the while casting their own hypocracy into sharp relief for others to see. Personaly, I don't mind someone being hypocritical as much as pretenders to some saintly air of the enlightened.

"".Sounds like you feel the illegal combatants should be granted more rights/protection than our own soldiers-"" Bebe seriously? That is the same leap that those on Fox always make when you askl questions about the process of what actually goes on in the field. My problem with the definition of an enemy combatant is that it gives certain people to determine that any civillian in the battlefield (which is now middle eastern cities) can be defined as such if they are not in uniform. In essence you can walk through a neighbor hood and start passing judgement. Based on what we have seen in the middle east by the conduct of our soldiers in several different situations (abu graib, afghanistan, etc...) why should we allow this to go on unchecked?

To make a wild leap from a legitimate question of the process that I have, to I somehow think that these people deserve MORE rights than our soldiers, is why I use terms like simpleton to describe you. Another blanket statement that means nothing.
I believe that every human being DESERVES equal rights. While I have no love for those that would shoot and kill our bravest men and women, is it fair to assume that our government hhas USED our military to occupy nations agains the will of their people? Is it also fair to assume that the million plus civillians in the middle east that have been killed by OUR bombs and occupying forces, is it carzy to assume that so many of these "enemy combatents" have been created by our presence in the region? Why is it that you fail to see this from another point of view other than the hard core right wing War machine? We invade a nation, civillians are killed and many young folks and older ones alike lose in many cases their entire families. If the situation were revered, what would you do? Or do you just make the assumption that all of these people are terrorists?

Since I'm on my lunch break I just copied and pasted from WIKI
Brewer previously served as Secretary of State of Arizona. Brewer became Governor of Arizona as part of the line of succession, as determined by the Arizona constitution.Brewer also served as Chairman of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors,

Brewer attended Glendale Community College where she received a radiological technologist certificate, but never earned a degree.

Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he was the president of the Harvard Law Review. He was a community organizer in Chicago before earning his law degree. He worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. He served three terms representing the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004.

I think it is pretty clear who is more qualified. A constitional law professer or a radiology Tech drop out...hhmmmm

Bella, when did Obama release his school transcripts to prove he is intelligent? What is he hiding?

polarization: Obama is running a campaign on this. One Term President. Worst EVER!

President Obama ran — and won — in 2008 on the idea of uniting the country. But each of his first three years in office has marked historic highs in political polarization, with Democrats largely approving of him and Republicans deeply disapproving.

For 2011, Obama’s third year in office, an average of 80 percent of Democrats approved of the job he was doing in Gallup tracking polls, as compared to 12 percent of Republicans who felt the same way. That’s a 68-point partisan gap, the highest for any president’s third year in office — ever. (The previous high was George W. Bush in 2007, when he had a 59 percent difference in job approval ratings.)

It is clearly stated in the Geneva Convention as to what is considered a legal combatant-in terms of military attire(or lack there of),not targeting civilian populations,etc-so there is no discussion on that point.Sounds like you feel the illegal combatants should be granted more rights/protection than our own soldiers-

Say it with me - ONE TERM PRESIDENT

Jan Brewer is more qualified for the office than Obama.

"Obama has been a very reasonable president and has worked hard to use teamwork to accomplish his agendas. "

What koolaide have you been drinking. Obama is a dictatorial person, with little or no management skills. He doesnt understand why people dont agree with him and is unwilling to compromise at all. He couldnt spell team if they gave him only the letters and a sheet of paper to lay them on.

So True kettleblack
......So True.......

I am not surprised at the people who have made comments stating the Obama not only deserves no respect, but that he actually deserves to be disrespected.

I was not a fan of GWB. I am absolutely not a fan of Walker. Regardless, I would never say that either of the two are un-American. To make such a statement would deteriorate my own character and weaken any arguments I would have.

The Tea Party for some reason believes that Obama is some sort of terrorist. Obama has been a very reasonable president and has worked hard to use teamwork to accomplish his agendas. The Republicans on the other hand have generally only been working hard to tarnish Obama's reputation and to be the best obstructionists they can be. It comes as no surprise that many of those who support Republicans see no reason to respect Obama.

Do you think the captain who was rescued from Somali pirates by Navy Seals respects Obama? Do you think Obama deserves respect for being president when Bin Laden was finally taken out? Do you think the aid worker who was recently rescued from terrorists respects Obama? You might not like everything Obama has done, but you certainly will have a difficult time proving that he deserves no respect and that he disrespects America and her flag.

For many Republican supporters who post on this website, I've never seen you contribute anything positive. This does not bring me dismay because you set the bar low from the beginning. For some Republican supporters who post on this website, though, I have seen you downgrade yourself time and time again. At one point some of you brought up good points and helped to facilitate meaningful and productive conversation. Now, however, you have reduced yourselves to nothing better than liberal hating mudslingers. That certainly does bring me great disappointment.

The problem with your statement about "enemy combatents" is who decides that is what they are? Do you believe that they are not entitled to human rights because an Officer in the field thinks that? After watching a group of soldiers pissing on dead bodies and laughing it up. Or watching inmates in Iraq having dogs sicked on them while naked, or having them stacked up naked by soldiers for entertainment? WHo is the problem here? Love the military, love the bravest amongst us, but there certainly are some of them who have shamed the rest of them with their actions.

You want respect? Do something to earn it. In that regard, this guy is a complete FAIL.

The problem with the treatment of the enemy combatants is that they are not considered enemy combatants under the Geneva Convention definition-so they don't deserve the protection that the Geneva Convention normally provides

The popular thing to do to anyone they disagree with politically is to label them, or make a poster with the opponent and a hitler moustache. Not right or okay for anyone to do that. Comparing an American politician to Hitler/Stalin/Mao to advance an ideology is wrong , they were all figures responsible for deaths of MILLIONS of people.
Got that Vato, its not right to do to any politician, no matter how much you hate them.

Kiwo- I always enjoy the honesty of your posts. As a former supporter of George Bush , I would agree with the contention of hypocricy on the left , calling for respect now, when te shots at GWB were constant and neverending, I remember them clearly. Heres the thing, now that I feel as if I have awakened to the REALITY of the world we live in, many of the things that were being said abour Bush were bathed in truth.

War criminal? I think that argument could absolutely be made, not only for marching the nation to war on manufactured reasons , but because of knowingly breaking Geneva convention rules on several occasions. I have huge problems with how we went to the middle east, how the administration ignored and even on certain occasions condoned "coerced interrogation techniques" (torture) of prisoners, and held prisoners indefinitely in Guantanamo Bay who in many cases were guilty of nothing. I always thought we were a nation of laws and due process. The problem is that so many are willing to allow that due process for Americans only, and not human beings. I happen to believe that due process should be a human right, not just an AMerican one. All these things and add in the "Patriot Act" which allowed for warrantless wire taps of American citizens for any reason seen as fit by the administration with no checks and balances, NONE!! If that isnt abuse of power I certainly dont know what is!!

Try to remember that we went to war against Sadaam Hussien because they had WMDs that we only knew of because WE sold them to the country. Osama Bin Laden was an enemy of the state and the nummber one most wanted man on Earth because of his crimes, and yet the USA trained him and the muja hadeen because we hated the soviet union so terribly that we were willing to invest BILLIONS training the very groups that were charged with bringing down the towers!! Anyone else find that a little alarming?
So many on the rigfht are so quick to say that Obama has wrecked the country, yet he has continued with many of the Bush administartion policies. Except they got Bin Laden and now we are out of Iraq. Hopefully out of Afghanistan as well. If republicans have it their way we will be shifting our perpetual war to the Iran/Syria theater soon!! How blind can some be.

Kiowa

That's the disease conservatives have to fight on a daily basis......

2004

Now I know where the 14 WI democrats got their idea to run to Illinois.....

Barbara Streisand and a host of other liberal Hollywood crybabies threatened to leave the country if Bush was elected back in 200

http://www.salon.com/2000/09/20/starexil...

And who can forget the Bush Hitler pictures

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/bstein8...

The left wants everyone to be tolerant.....? wow...

Hey bebe way to quote me, but hey calling someone a cartoon charecter , or an embicile, or someone who makes stupid blanket statements is okay because I am not speaking about the president. Many of the right wing and left wing parrots on this site deserve to be called much worse. You are certainly not innocent here either which I find HILARIOUS!! If you don't want to be called a simpleton, then dont be one! Dont want to be accused of making stupid blanket statements , then dont make them!!

The President used the bully pulpit of The State of The Union to publically disrespect the Supreme Court Justices;He used the bully pulpit of a press conference to publically disrespect Paul Ryan for his proposal to change Medicare,etc;he uses the bully pulpit to publically disrespect banks,corporations and any other big business and then complains about job creation;he uses his bully pulpit to publically disrespect anyone earning over $250,000 to promote his class warfare agenda when there are 34 people on his personal office staff who are on arrears on their federal taxes- and the left questions why he is dis-respected??????????????

Gov. Jan Brewer should be ashamed of herself! She knows its disrespectful to even point a finger at a person. And to point your finger in someones face; and the someone being the President of The United States of America. Please. How ugly, mean and nasty. As a christian, I strongly believe that "What goes around. Comes around!" I was raised to respect people in authority. I am a retired Michigan State Police Trooper. And I see the disrespect that people have for others every day. But the disrespect that government officials are showing to this nations president is appalling. If one day Gov. Brewer someday finds someone sticking their finger in her face. Let's see how she handles it. Especially, when that person says that "they were just being animated!"

greatplain Jan 31, 2012 at 8:44 a.m.
For 8 years President George W. Bush was disrespected and worse from every corner of the liberal left. He is still blamed for the present state of the economy that he has not presided over for 4 years.
Then there was the vitriol that was spewed toward Sarah Palin, who's very name makes the left foam at the mouth.
Two wrongs don't make a right, greatplain, but I think you overstated your case.
Furthermore, disagreeing with you does not make someone less intelligent than you.

Wow. This article is so off-base I don't know where to start....How about this - after eight years of GWB being assailed as a moron, an idiot, a cowboy, etc. etc., and there was even talk of killing him, all just jokingly of course - yeah right.
Now this guy is Teflon? And deserves "respect"??? Every president, and any other office holder for that matter, can expect to be criticised and held to account, and yes sometimes even treated badly. Although we strive for a civil society, last time I checked there was still a First Amendment.
Another issue I take exception to, here's a quote from the article: "feeling condescended to implies that Brewer believes she and the president are equals". Besides being factually wrong (certainly a "superior" can be condescending!), news flash! Jan Brewer does not work for Barack Obama. Jan Brewer is the governor of Arizona, the highest office in the state. Obama was a guest there. I know this may seem odd to some of you, with the unconstitutional way our federal government has been behaving during our lifetimes. They are supposed to have very limited powers and responsibilities. They are not supposed to be dictating to the states from on high. Obama works for us - we do not work for him. So because Brewer and Obama work for different organizations they should indeed be considered equals - they are both public servants, neither reports to the other.

bebe53: Do you want a list of righties on here that use disrespectful language? It would be the same.

Joe who? What impact did that have other then have him apologize? What was Obama wrong about?
Also, Obama giving the middle finger...where was that? Newsmax? Fox?
Never saw it.

fear posted using such terms as-
"freaking cartoon charecters"
"simpletons"
"fools"
"embaciles"
"pointless hate"
"racially motivated"
"stupid blanket statements"
So who dis-repects who?
What trash!!!!
Always seems to be acceptable for the leftists to be arrogant,dis-respectful,biased,bigoted,racist,etc,etc,etc-and you wonder why people get upset with the elitist attituide of the left-absolutely amazing

"Who can forget instances of disrespect such as Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., shouting “You lie!”

Problem for Obama is Joe Wilson was right.

Time proved that.

Between yelling "Liar" in Congress, calling him names from Socialist/Commie to Nazi, (opposites), posters with Hitler mustaches or worse, having hockey players stay home, wishing his defeat before he has started and annnouncing it, to having to produce legitimate birth certificates, to having a whole cable network and tens of radio shows yelling about you daily, increased death threats, I'd say, yes, this president is disrespected. More than others, without even bringing in the notion of race.
What this is really about is the Obama Derangement Syndrome, which happen to Clinton. Have a right wing freak out, if there is a Dem in power. Everything on the wall and see what sticks. Jan Brewer is all about selling a book and entertaining her friends.
The silver lining: this Pres is good at his job, and will be reelected. That is why hatred is so abundant.

So Barack Obama, the guy who flipped the middle finger to both John McCain and Hillary Clinton in public on TV, is not getting the respect he deserves.

Got it.

I'll try, Donna. Google is on the internets, right?

RetiredAirForce Jan 31, 2012 at 1:30 a.m.
Excellent!

You lefties are a hoot! In the past year you, as a group, have shown no respect for the office of Governor, no respect for the privacy of Governor Walker, no respect for the spirit of the political process, no respect for the voter, no respect for opposition of ANY kind, and then you get on your high horse over this Obama incident.
.
In the article Esther Cepeda said, "You may be of the opinion, as I am, that President Obama hasn’t lived up to the promise of Candidate Obama." I think she is of that opinion because he wasn't far enough to the left. She will still vote for him though.

Bella..just goggle Obama arrogant and you will get lots of opportunity to read lots of articles. You do know how to go to google, don't you?

"Well known" to who?? What, you have intimate knowledge of the President and the people he surrounds himself with? How on earth do you assume he has a big ego and is arrogant? When Bush was yelling "if you're not with us, you're against us" and calling other countries "axis of evil", did you consider him arrogant and egotistical? No, you considered him a "strong leader". This whole discussion is so ridiculous. You disagree with Obama's politics, so you assign personality and leadership traits to him that you actually admired in someone else, but you dislike in Obama. Personally, I much prefer an education intelligent president who might come off as arrogant as he leads one of the most important countries in the world. Much better than the dimwitted yahoo from Texas we had to put up with for all those years. Disrespectful of me? You betcha.

Bella, you have nothing to back up your comments "no history, no culture..." But I guess you are the only one to be able to express an opinion. And by the way, Obama's arrogance and big ego are well known.

donnaw, really? The president has no common sense and no humility? Where do you people come up with this stuff?? You have absolutely nothing to back up that statement with.

bella, big difference between intelligence and common sense, which Obama lacks as well as humility.

The ignorance on the right is just staggering. Electing far-right people with no education, no skills, just foolish retoric. No history, no culture. Shameful. Walker, Brewer, Perry...the list goes on. And you have the nerve to disrespect a President who is arguably the most intelligent you've had in decades? Fools. Simple fools.

There is obviously HUGE hypocrisy among the left.. Back when Bush was President you did not hear ANYONE of the hard left saying they had "respect" for the office?? Most could not get over the fact that he won the vote in Florida. Then years later you had many who actually wanted to bring up treason, and war crime charges on him. Remember when you had Algore literally pounding on the table (like Kruschev) in a fit of rage of how bad a President Bush was? Yeah, really was respecting the office there, HAHA.
I'm not one to defend Bush, or many of his awful policies...Just don't give me this nonsense that one is now to respect the office, because their hand picked guy is in there. The office SHOULD get respect (no matter what party holds the office), but when it's a member of the GOP, that 'rule' usually seems to conveniently fly right out the window.

Today's installment of liberal hypocrisy, a single poster provided all of the following comments; at one time or another;

"No matter what people...and the rest of you think, you just proved the point. He is the president and as such deserves the highest respect and regards due any president."

"Then, of course, we have fitzgerald writting more bills to stifle any attempt to overthrow, I mean recall, Walker instead of finding good jobs for us Fitzwalkerstanians. Soon to go back to the name of Wisconsin, once scooter is fired and fitzgerald leaves to pursue his other political schemes."

"I smell a skunk comming in...oh wait maybe it,s a bear or salmon. Either way I think everyone has had enough of Alaska lipstick mom."

Again as is the pattern consistency is not the point to most of these posters.

"But the repubs, nationally speaking, do not like having an african-american as president."
-
Racist comments like this one show the inability many on the left have when it comes to discussing the job performance of the current president.

No matter what people like wislady and the rest of you think, you just proved the point. He is the president and as such deserves the highest respect and regards due any president. But the repubs, nationally speaking, do not like having an african-american as president. Didn't think it could happen in a million years. But they also couldn't come up with someone who could be elected either. That is why they have been on a smear campaign since he took office. Look around the country and see what the repubs have done all across America. Turning the backs on plans that would have had people working alot sooner than they will now from turning down all those dollars given to the states for certain programs that were paid for. Even in this state of Fitzwalkerstan you see it every day. Wake up and smell the roses before it's too late.

Wow I wonder where Esther Cepeda's, who also is a huff post blogger, piece on the same topic for other presidents is...oh never mind.

Of course forget that Brewer wrote a contradiction to her own statements about her meeting with the president in her book, so she could sell mORE BOOKS!!
Obama is divisive? And George Bush was " A uniter not a divider", right? I swear you people are a bunch of freaking cartoon charecters. Notice that the last decade we could respect the president, since the last democrat was in office, right?
Do you people ever get sick of being such simpletons? Obama didnt ruin the country! Politicians mixed with private banks did!! Obama had very little to do with the wrecking of the economy. I can point out 25 positive things that have happened in the economy since he took office! Yet all you fools have is rhetoric. I mean do any of you embaciles remember what the country was like on Jan 20 , 2009? Obama got elected BECAUSE GWBs 2 terms tore this nation to shreds for generations. OH and BTW its NOT all their fault either!!! Clinton Admin is culpable, Bush the first, Reagan , all of them!!
I hate to bring it up but the more and more pointless hate I see pointed at this president, I am really starting to believe that it may be racially motivated. So please if that is not the case then make a real point to back it up and lets have that discussion, because I am more than equipped to discuss REAL opinions that people may hold on Obama and WHY he has supposedly ruined our nation. But when so many are just swimming in rhetoric, it just makes me laugh as if I was watching Looney Tunes.
So if you like , make a statement about how he is "destroying" our nation, and I will certainly rhetort, but generalized, stupid blanket statements just dont jive ,.....for me. But then again I dont get my opinions from TV commercials and "bomb throwing" radio/TV shows that live in hyperbole.

Actually, her comments are insulting considering all my family members who died fighting Germany. She lies.

Brewer said her father died in WW2 fighting the Nazis. He died in 1955. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Brewer etc.
The two other people there at the airport, mayors, saw nothing remarkable. This is the same woman talking about beheadings in the desert, that didn't happen. But she blames imaginary stuff on illegal Mexican immigrants. Guess what, her book she supposedly wrote just jumped in sales. And oh good for her, she's not elite, not even a community college degree. She's now qualified to be a Tea Party national candidate.

Did you ever think it's because we think he's distroying the country?

Another slow news day in the world of columnists.

Obama himself is not the polarizing force. It's what the Republican party has tried to paint him as that is really polarizing people. For example, when those on the right try to make him out as a Muslim/Kenyan/socialist/anti-American in an attempt to scare dim-witted people into believing it's true. The simple fact is that you don't think he's Anti-American, rather you disagree with his policies and you find it easier to go with ad hominem attacks rather than come up with a solution.

Obama is the first president in decades that doesn't deserve our respect. He is loyal only to his party and to his owners, the unions.

It's amazing you three can say so much when you know nothing about it. What insight do you bring to the table that the rest of us don't? You say so much about yourselves when you make these ridiculous comments.

Like he shows respect..check out the link...

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/arc...

You must give respect to get it. I believe that the picture was out of context. Many people talk with their hands and I am certain that some would say the same thing about me if they snapped 100 pictures while I was discussing a subject and they were not totally engaged nor part of the discussion. The reality is that Obama has very thin skin.

@bebe53
Just as he does anyone who is not a union boss, or a democrat. He shows no respect for this country, the American Flag, or the Constitution.

He is the most polarizing president in history.

The problem is that this President doesn't show respect to anyone who dares disagree with him-and it was my impression that it was Obama who initiated this little argument -not the other way around