As of 3 PM, GAB has not responded, regarding this PUBLIC document.

fearandrhetoric4dummies
If you KNOW everything, then why are you asking?

Open Records Request with at the GAB office for online release of petitions.
This was filed late this morning.

I KNOW that Wislady, so unless you are a Walker Staffer then where are you getting such privelidged information? If yyou are a Walker staffer is your last name wink??

fearandrhetoric4dummies
The signatures are NOT posted online. The Walker campaign people DO have access to them.

SarahB1
Sorry you had difficulty understanding WHO Duffy is, that was a reference point for you.

I am curious on your sources Wislady unless you are working for Scott. Because last I checked they havent released the petitions yet, because so many of these "thugs" that are calling people after freeze framing petitions on 27 news and making phone calls in the middle of the night and harassing people.
So between your "claims" of ET and Sean duffy signing twice(not a crime) that disqualifies 2 signatures out of over a million? Good luck finding enough, but hey I am all for the verification process. WHEN Walker is recalled there will be no one able to claim that the process was tainted. If I were a republican I would be spending my time on campaigning for my man, not this pointless excersise that will end up in an election.
BTW my name is on the petition, and if any knucklehead calls me from Hartford or Brookfield threatening me, I will ask him for his/her address to speak to them face to face, and make the trip. Threaten me, I dare you!!

Sean Duffy REALLY wants Walker recalled. He signed the petition 2 times, then entered quotation marks on the next line!

"Duffy Holloway, who failed to file enough valid signatures to reach the 6th District ballot in 2008."
http://www.biddleformilwaukee.com/1/post...

Who is going to prove that ET is not alive and living in Milwaukee?
Compared to what some people choose to name their kids,
(and that is their business, God bless them),
I should consider ET to be fairly tame.
It is very telling of a person's character in how they perceive others.
A person with a propensity to lie is much quicker to assume that another is lying.
They accept deceit as natural behavior, only to be suppressed when absolutely necessary.

And I am sure that ZERO opponents to the recall didn't knowingly sign the petitions falsely? Riggghhhhht!

totell- please show us the "trend" in a link or somehow some kind of facts. I keep seeing all the opposition to the recalls making claims, but I am waiting to see any kind of factual evidence to back up your claim.
totell-dotell, otherwise please stop the rhetoric. I simply want the 540k verified and then we can get this election done ASAP. Verify the amount needed, then LETS GET IT ON!! Dragging it out is a tactic allowed to get more funds for the incumbent. Even if he gets more money, the John Doe is without question harming the governors integirty. He will lose independents bc of the scandal, even if he is not charged.

SarahB1, all of the signatures will be manually verified, the system is already set up, and if there is any similarity to what the trend is, you will get your 540,000 signatures, but not more than that. The stench of nectrotic fraud abounds greatly in your recall effort.

I am curious if ANYONE can show me an election of a turnout of 100%? Can anyone release any number of disqualified signatures? No estimates from media matters or maciver , actual numbers? Because I see people guessing all over the place, but nothing yet factual. Lots of speculation, little factual evidence. Typical of any party that feels their power threatened.

Who knew that E.T. was alive and living in Milwaukee (according to petition signature)?

RAF,
You're so cute when you're angry. I can't make a claim regarding the current numbers. There is not a total number of validated signatures yet, and there hasn't been a recall election yet to compare how many signed to how many voted. I just gave an indication of expected results in heavily Republican districts. That's all. I think it's pretty telling. If you don't, then you don't. I'm not here to change your mind. To find out if the trends hold, we'll just have to wait and see.

It's really quite funny to read some of these posts. The Right just can't believe we got enough signatures to recall them. Keep in mind, the 1,000,000 plus that were turned in against Walker, were already screened and the ones that looked suspicious, illegible or duplicates were disqualified. I hope we do get an actual total from the GAB just to prove that the signatures turned in were qualified.

Yes walter thank you for trying to help sarah. Together neither one has made a dent in the real numbers surrounding the current recall but at least you both tried your best.

Wisconsin’s voting-age population of 4.37 million , so lets just say for facts sake that approximately 25% of ELIGIBLE voters in Wisconsin signed in a short period of 60 days. Of course to some who claim not to be ideologues and not to speak in hyperbole would assume that 100% of everyone who couldn't be found to sign that they are OBVIOUSLY opposed to signing.Not a leap at all.

Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Dan Kapanke: 21,776
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Number of votes for Kapanke's opponent, Jennifer Shilling, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 33,193
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Randy Hopper: 22,953
-
Number of votes for Hopper's opponent, Jessica King, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 28,191
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Sheila Harsdorf: 23,685
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Number of votes for Harsdorf's opponent, Shelly Moore, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 27,257
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Luther Olsen: 22,207
-
Number of votes for Olsen's opponent, Fred Clark, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 24,355
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Alberta Darling: 22,243
-
Number of votes for Darling's opponent, Sandra K. Pasch, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 34,071
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Robert Cowles: 23,959
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Number of votes for Cowles' opponent, Nancy Nusbaum, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 19,974
******
Total validated signatures: 136,823
Total votes cast for Democratic opponents of Republican state senators targeted for recall: 167,041
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It's safe to say here that the number of signatures gathered during the recall petition signing process doesn't accurately represent the extent to which Democrats will turn out at the polls during the actual recall election. These 6 recall elections represent a sample of what can be expected statewide in typically Republican districts, a 22% increase from signatures to votes cast. The swing toward unfavorable sentiment that has occurred in districts like these, coupled with traditionally Democratic strong holds like Dane and Milwaukee counties (which have only gotten stronger), suggests that there will be a vastly larger amount of votes against Walker if there is to be a recall election than the total number of signatures of the 1,000,000 submitted that will ultimately be validated.

RAF,
I have nothing to defend. I stand by everything I've said 100%. I have no doubt that the Walker administration has perpetrated injustices against the people of WI and Republicans in the state legislature have been complicit in those injustices. The numbers from the previous recall elections indicate a profound shift toward the negative in public opinion of Scott Walker that clearly has not tapered off in the 1 year since he unveiled his real agenda.

Walter again failing to defend your own words you instead critique being called on it. Typical.

Can't make it through a post without cherry picking and avoiding the real topic, can ya RAF? I see you've now sunk to the level of quoting a 3 word fragment of a much larger post. Mitt Romney does the same thing type of thing in his attack ads on President Obama. It's that type of tactic by folks on the right that makes it so hard to take you guys seriously. Why do you think guys like John Stewart and Stephen Colbert have such popular shows?

j'villetaxpayer,
I agree with the issue you take with the cost of verifying the signatures. It's important to note that little more than a couple weeks ago the cost of signature verification was the responsibility of the target of said recall. Walker filed a lawsuit in Republican friendly Waukesha county to have that cost shifted onto the tax payer so he wouldn't have to dip into his donation money which, per a WI law that Walker apparently likes, can be unlimited from any type of donor in the case of a recall.
As for how Walker planned to balance the budget, removing collective bargaining rights from unions has no direct effect on the budget. There are no immediate savings in taking away workers' rights. There were plenty of other ways to balance the budget. Taxes can be raised. Spending could have been cut in a more broad manner rather than the focus that was put on cutting nearly a billon dollars from education. Certainly the public workers' contributions to their pension and healthcare needed to happen and they agreed that it should so long as their collective bargaining was left in tact. Walker was not willing to compromise in the least. Walker never mentioned that he planned on going after workers' rights as he did. As a voter, there is no reason for me to assume that a candidate plans on doing something that he hasn't made clear that he plans on doing or has considered as a possibility.

" henchmen. The kingpin"
-
Cant make it through a single posting without lies, rhetoric, and meaningless diatribes. Typical.

RAF,
The six previous recalls less than 6 months ago are clearly indicative of a palpable shift in public opinion of Scott Walker toward the negative. And those were just recall efforts against some of Walker's henchmen. The kingpin himself is the real focus of the ire of WI. As I've stated to you before, so long as a recall election takes place, you and the other Walker supporters will get your chance to show how much support for Walker really exists in this state. Based on the previous senatorial recall elections, I would say that support has waned significantly unlike your penchant for childish temper tantrums. One thing I hope you and the pro-Walker folks continue to do is underestimate the recall effort. That's the absolute best thing the Walker lackies can do for the recall.

WalterR - Walker said he would balance the budget and he did. Like I said, I do not agree with everything he has done, stripping the collective bargaining rights would be something I do not agree with. However, how did people think he was going to balance the budget? Print money? Any research during the campaign would have noted he was going to go after public workers and their rights. I must point out, I am not necessarily a Walker supporter. Just someone who is not happy with the cost of this recall. I only wish money could be saved by not having to verify all the signatures as there are clearly enough. I would rather just have the recall election and get it over with.

j'villetaxpayer,
Walker never once during his campaign promised to remove public workers' collective bargaining rights. Governing in bad faith leads to recalls. That is how it should and does work. I suggest you get used to that fact.

Some of these comments seem to have gotten off track. Its a shame people did not do their own research before voting and instead got caught up in the idea republicans needed to be voted in to change things. I do not agree with everything Walker has done but he has done what he said he would. The expense of this recall will be exorbitant and us taxpayers are left footing the bill.

Walter your numbers mean nothing in context of those that signed the current recall circus vs who didn't, that ratio is still 20% to 80%. Besides bringing up past election numbers, which have no bearing on the current process, you also decided to take your fallback approach of false and misleading listings. In your lame defending of these comments you bring up a five year old proclamation, I suspect in a case of projection.

RAF,
Once again you have no reasonable response to the figures so you deflect by cherry picking 7 (count 'em 7) words and then dropping flowery hyperbole like "twisted psychological trance" and "insane thought process". I give real facts and figures and all you can give is the rhetorical equivalent of stomping your feet and holding your breath like a 5 year old? Is that all you got? Really? REALLY?! Show a little self-respect, would ya?

" injustices perpetrated by Walker and his cronies."
-
Poor walter must be a pitiful to live a life where your sole pupose is to continually lie about people you disagree with in a twisted psychological trance to justify your insane thought process.

RAF,
You want REAL numbers? They're already posted. I compared number of signatures and number of votes in all of the recall elections from last August. In 5 out of 6 more people turned out to vote for the Democrat than signed the petition to trigger the recall. So keep on ridin' that 80% figure that made you feel so clever, and see how far it gets you.
There was a 22% increase from signatures to votes in districts that were, for the most part, dominated by Republicans. Yes, in 4 of those 6 districts the Republican retained their seat (to the surprise of very few), but it was the fact that serious recall efforts were even mounted that sent a clear message about how people felt about the injustices perpetrated by Walker and his cronies. Take Luther Olsen and Robert Cowles as 2 examples. They had both run unopposed in 2008, yet there was enough opposition to their support of Walker's shady tactics that a recall was triggered against them.

totellthetruth said, "There was a reason that a recall clause was written in the constitution, and this is not the intended reason."
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I have read and re-read Article XIII, Section 12 many times and I find no intended reason whatsoever contained within the recall provision. Perhaps you can now enlighten all of us with the intended reason.

Well gang this has been fun and interesting but I need to find a flight out of here and my rear is hurting from sitting on this chair. I'd be a complete liar if I told ya i was going to the polls cause I'm not. I'll be relaxing in San Diego thinking of you all & kind of laughing. Good luck & enjoy.

If you have any further questions you can address them to the nearest brick wall.

Lady you're suppose to learn from the mistakes of mankind not repeat them.

In your overwhelming desire to stay in the middle class & be loud you forgot to see your doctor regularly. They have this drug developed some time ago called prozac!

hey egghead- remember Clinton? He was a Democrat and the Republicans fought tooth and nail to impeach him, spent billions of dollars on a fiasco of an investigation. Let's also not forget another Republican-Richard Nixon, who RESIGNED before we could IMPEACH him. I'm guessing you were also not aware of the fact that George Bush II committed dozens of crimes worthy of impeachment and yet he walks, scott-free! Don't worry, your guy's name is on that recall list because he earned it, fair and square. Regardless of political stance, he would be recalled if he were a democrat.

WalterReuther. You said that the recall is protected under the constitution. Fred Phelps actions in protesting at military funerals is also protected under the constitution. Both of the acts of recall and the acts of Mr. Phelps are acts are Evil, UNmerican acts, but both are protected. There was a reason that a recall clause was written in the constitution, and this is not the intended reason. You have every right to be UNamerican and as evil as you would like, veterans like myself ensured your right to your stupidity. God Bless America!

Guess what THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT the top 1% wanted to do- they pitted US "commonfolk" against each other and divided us into factions of extreme right all the way to extreme left in the political spectrum ensuring we spend all our time working nevertheless and upsetting each other instead of actually uniting and living up to the name of our country that got taken over by rich , white fat cats- (lobbyists,former House Reps transferring to the 'private' sector with connections made whilst in office for the 'public') Hate doesn't fix anything and these guys know it- they use hate,fear and terrorism on our own homeland- with mainstream media (guess who owns NBC/FOX/ABC) to convince us that Republicans are "right" and only want to "fix the Budget".

Let's NOT FORGET FOX's EMBARASSING "Madison Protest Footage" from LAST February- where they had a cop on horseback fighting a "protester" with PALM trees in the background. They wanted it to look like MADISON was getting VIOLENT! Just saying- What Scott did was sneaky and what the media did was shameful persuading so many good hard working people that they have the right to look down on other Americans simply because they belong to a union. I'll be sitting here waiting when your ready to drop our petty differences and actually want to have your kids and grandkids growing up in a country where a middle class does exist and opportunities are available (without crushing student debt or credit debt)by making a real grassroots movement to change---oh wait it's already going on ! Occupy Wall St!

My only question, are recalls going to be a regular thing for democrats that don't agree with opposition? Oh Wait I think I just answered my own question because democrats always disagree with opposition. Oh dear God I'm cancelling my cable & developing a hearing and sight problem on purpose. No forget that I'll just move yeah that makes more sense! My God this is as ridiculous and stupid as yahoo answers. If you couldn't stand politics before I'll bet your really going to enjoy it now!

Sarah using your insane thought process, there is no recall support in my household so that is overwhelming 100%support support since not one person from the state showed to say otherwise. You obviously topped the previous dumbest thing you posted with that comment.

Sadly the idea of real numbers scares the fringe.

No2 you are correct. Image that. During the last election as in most elections a minorty of eligible voters always decide who is elected.

Great point, Sarah! Using RAF's logic, that means 4,368,000 eligible voters oppose Walker and only 2,000 support him.

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "The truth is that 80% did not sign the recall petitions."
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An even more poignant truth is that 74.2% did not vote for Walker. 74.2%!!!

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "There was a state wide effort to gather signatures, this ~20% disapproval of all eligible voters..."
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I'll play this game with you, RAF. In 2010, there were 4,370,000 eligible voters according to GAB. Walker received 1,128,941 votes. Walker was elected with just 25.8% of eligible voters. 25.8%!!!

walter stated "Clearly you believe that 80% of the eligible voting population is unequivocally against the recall effort."
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The truth is that 80% did not sign the recall petitions. 4 out of 5 eligible voters in this state didn't sign. You can do your best to spin it anyway you want to make yourself feel good and justify your position. The numbers are what they are.

Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Dan Kapanke: 21,776
-
Number of votes for Kapanke's opponent, Jennifer Shilling, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 33,193
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Randy Hopper: 22,953
-
Number of votes for Hopper's opponent, Jessica King, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 28,191
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Sheila Harsdorf: 23,685
-
Number of votes for Harsdorf's opponent, Shelly Moore, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 27,257
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Luther Olsen: 22,207
-
Number of votes for Olsen's opponent, Fred Clark, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 24,355
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Alberta Darling: 22,243
-
Number of votes for Darling's opponent, Sandra K. Pasch, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 34,071
******
Number of valid signatures gathered to trigger recall election against Robert Cowles: 23,959
-
Number of votes for Cowles' opponent, Nancy Nusbaum, in the recall election in Aug. 2011: 19,974
******
Total validated signatures: 136,823
Total votes cast for Democratic opponents of Republican state senators targeted for recall: 167,041
-
It's safe to say here that the number of signatures gathered during the recall petition signing process doesn't accurately represent the extent to which Democrats will turn out at the polls during the actual recall election. These 6 recall elections represent a sample of what can be expected statewide in typically Republican districts. The swing toward unfavorable sentiment that has occurred in districts like these, coupled with traditionally Democratic strong holds like Dane and Milwaukee counties (which have only gotten stronger), suggests that there will be a vastly larger amount of votes against Walker if there is to be a recall election than the total of number of signatures of the 1,000,000 submitted that will ultimately be validated.

RAF,
Clearly you believe that 80% of the eligible voting population is unequivocally against the recall effort. You are free to believe whatever you want. That does not necessarily mean, however, that you have accurate perspective on said electoral activities. That's ok, though. You are not obligated, legally or morally, to have accurate political perspective. So you can carry on as you see fit and see where it gets you.

Poor walter still trying to make a poor argument around false information. I have never said all people participate. I did say, clearly and repeatedly, the signatures collected were only from 20% of eligible voters. Leaving 80% of the same pool of people that didn't join in to the 60 day signing ceremony.

totellthetruth,
This recall process is allowed and protected under the WI state constitution. Are you saying that you believe the state constitution is evil and unAmerican?
Much like Mitt Romney is perfectly within the law to pay only a 15% tax rate, so is the recall within the law to move forward with the effort. If you take issue with anything, you must take issue with the law, not those operating within that law.

RAF,
Clearly you believe that 100% of eligible voters participate in WI's electoral activities. You are free to believe whatever you want. That does not necessarily mean, however, that you have accurate perspective on said electoral activities. That's ok, though. You are not obligated, legally or morally, to have accurate political perspective. So you can carry on as you see fit and see where it gets you.

totellthetruth. If you are going to keep that name perhaps you should not lie. Fact: Walker sent a notice to the Federal Budget seeking waiver of health care implementation that could only be granted if the State proved they HAD or WOULD HAVE a Significant deficit in the next two budget years. YES, Walker told the FEDS we had a deficit, so either he lied to the federal government or we have a deficit. Either we have a deficit or he is a liar. Second, WSJ's numbers about teachers were obtained from a very small sample of school administrators, but even they don't say what you say they do. The numbers quoted by WSJ said 1799 more teachers were hired than were given no return or layoff letters. Let me explain this so you can understand, my agency had 100 attorneys leave in the last year, 98 quit or retired, 2 were terminated, 43 new attorneys were hired to replace them. In WSJ numbers this would be 41 more attorneys were hired than were given layoff or non return letters. However as you will follow, 57 fewer actual attorneys now work for my agency, not 41 more attorneys.

Lets look at TRUE FACTS
.
About 21,000 Rock County residents signed recall petitions, Sheldon said. That's about 2.1 percent of the statewide total.

In comparison, more than 50,000 Rock County residents voted in the last gubernatorial election, nearly 27,000 of them for Democratic candidate Tom Barrett.
.
SO, everyone had tons of opportunity to sign the recall petition. If you did not, you were either dead, dying or out of state. 6,000 LESS people signed the petition than VOTED. Any chance someone would vote and not sign the petition, I think not. That's 22% less than what you got during last years election. Add that to the FACT there is NOT A DECENT candidate to run against Walker.
.
Fact, the budget is balanced.
Fact... an increase of 2,000 teaching positions were gained *(per WSJ figures).
.
The truth is, more people are supporting Walker than supported Barret in the last election. This won't even be close, and you are paying for it. Barrett only got 1,000,000 votes last election and that's all the signatures collected even with the fraudulent ones.. Even United Wisconsin is claiming there will be some less numbers due to fraudulent totals.
,
The fact is this evil and unamerican effort is sad for Wisconsin. There is nothing good that will come of it and those who supported it should be extremely ashamed of their evil actions. May Jesus have mercy on your soul.

Stop it..Maine2010 and WalterReuther..fearandrhetoric4dummies is unable to get screen time and I am very sure that can't be good for the city. Do we have a clock tower?

Yes, we must thank all of those who sat at their kitchen table and copied names from the white pages onto recall forms.
.
You've done your party proud!!

"Look, there is a very recent and very measurable indicator as to unfavorable sentiment toward Gov Scott Walker in this state. It was just handed over to the GAB. There is no such tangible indicator right now for favorable sentiment toward Gov Walker."
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Walter you are getting closer. There was a state wide effort to gather signatures, this ~20% disapproval of all eligible voters is what you claim is tangible yet the MUCH larger reminder of that same group didn't sign you want to ignore. Typical liberal.

I think Maine has his/her computer posting automatically -- not even copying and pasting. I don't even bother to read those posts.

truthteller,
Having worked for Chrysler and knowing many people that still do, I know for a fact that regular union dues are not used to support any candidate or party. The only money that goes through a union to a candidate are voluntary contributions. Union dues (2 hours pay per month) are divided up like this:
38% local union
32% international union's general fund
30% strike fund
All political donations come from voluntary contributions through the Voluntary Community Action Program or VCAP.
Sounds like your brother is getting information from people that don't know what they're talking about. If he wants the real information tell him to set up a time to go the the hall and talk to union leadership.

My brother just got hired at Chrysler. They said he has to pay union dues for three months before he is in the union. They will be deducting contributions for Obama campaign and for the Democratic party?!?! This is why unions need to be fixed...........

kidsfirst,
Amen. Plagiarism is not a skill though many on the right consider it to be. Maine doesn't even have the ambition to parrot talking points. If all you can do is click a mouse, than just copy and paste the links. Let those who care enough click their own mouse and do the reading.

Well, all I can say is if you want to talk about foolish posts, all one needs to do is look back at yours stating that ANYONE that did not sign a recall Walker petition is against the recall. That being said, I've never compared numbers of votes and numbers of signatures. It was you who brought up the percentage of eligible voters who signed the recall petitions (20%) and those who did not (80%), which are completely irrelevant numbers as they are not at all indicative of percentages for or against Walker among those that tend to participate in elections. It IS safe to say that a majority of those 20% that have signed the petition will be voting for Walker's opponent in a recall election if it were to occur. Of the 80% that did not sign, you can not safely say that a majority of them would be voting for Walker in a recall election. So, for you to invoke that 80% is, again, really just ridiculous.
Look, there is a very recent and very measurable indicator as to unfavorable sentiment toward Gov Scott Walker in this state. It was just handed over to the GAB. There is no such tangible indicator right now for favorable sentiment toward Gov Walker. I realize that that must just burn you up, and that's ok. If there's a recall election, you and your fellow Walker supporters will have your shot to once again prove how much WI loves Walker. That'll be great. I'm looking forward to it, too. If there's not enough valid signatures and no recall occurs, that will make the same point, just a lot sooner. I'm really not sure why you would risk whatever credibility you may have as an anonymous poster on a small city newspaper website by making ridiculous statements, like your now classic "80%" flub, and continuing to stand behind it like you've uncovered some great truth that no one will listen to.

"now you're trying to associate arguments with me that I never made. I understand that's how you work, so I'm not shocked. I'll once again set you straight. I never once wrote anywhere on this website that signatures equal votes."
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Walter you are indeed dense, it is no wonder you are shocked you can't understand what is written. I never declared you said a signature equaled a vote. I did say you were comparing votes cast to signatures; number wise. Perhaps if you took the time to read before posting, like you did during your false comments on other topics, like voter ID, you wouldn't look so foolish.

Maine -- your cut & paste comments are so repetitive. . . Can you please stop referring to nationwide information and stick to WI?
~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe you are on the payroll for Koch Bro's or one of their many companies pressing the agenda as written by ALEC. . .
~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you have any of your own analysis of data or do you only know how to copy and paste the script you were given?

Part II: The Abuses of Collective Bargaining by Public Employee Unions: 2. Second, the administration of PERS under successive Democrat governors began to ignore the administrative requirements of PERS and in each instance the results was to enhance benefits to recipients without legislative acquiescence. The most notorious of these occurred during Gov. Kitzhaber’s first two terms when the PERS administrators refused to update the mortality tables used to determine benefits upon retirement. The impact of that decision is reflected in the following example. According to the United States Bureau of Statistics the life expectancy of sixty year old white men in 1995 was 19.3 years. In 2003, that life expectancy had grown to 20.6 years. That means that if one retired at age 60 in 1995 his annual compensation was determined by dividing ones total benefit by 19.3. A total lifetime benefit of $750,000 would provide an annual benefit of about $38,860 or a monthly benefit of about $3,240. If one retired in 2003, that same amount should have been divided by 20.6 resulting in a monthly benefit of about $3,030 per month. By failing to update the mortality tables the PERS administrators overpaid newer public employee retirees by $210 per month or $2520 per year or $48,636 over the 19.3 years. They also compensated them for 1.3 years more than they were entitled to for an additional $47,880. This administrative corruption of an already overly generous pension plan increased the cost to taxpayers by over $96,516 per retiring employee – 13 percent more than they should have received.

Part I: The Abuses of Collective Bargaining by Public Employee Unions by L. Huss, Mar. 2. 2011: In last week’s column I described the difference between traditional collective bargaining and collective bargaining with public employee unions. “. . . You see, in Wisconsin, the Republicans were able to precisely explain that while collective bargaining in the private sector is a cherished right to be respected, the same is not true in the public sector. In the private sector, the unions – responsible to the members – bargain with an independent management – responsible to their shareholders. There is a natural balance between the wishes of the employees to maximize their compensation and the management’s needs to control cost to remain competitive. But in the public sector, public employee unions bargain with a management whose campaigns they financed and who are dependent on the union’s financing for re-election. There is no balance.” Such an imbalance is the prescription for corruption and if you are looking for an organization most likely to corrupt and exploit a system, there are the public employee unions.
Let’s look at just one element of the total compensation plan negotiated by the public employee unions with a governor and/or a legislature beholden to their campaign contributions – the Public Employees Retirement System. In its original form, PERS was a traditional defined benefits plan which, like most defined benefits plans, was supposed to provide employees with about sixty percent of their salary at age 65 and with 30 years of service. Personal savings and Social Security were assumed to cover the remainder of post-retirement compensation so that the public employees would not experience a significant change in their quality of life. (Actually those assumptions permit an enhanced quality of life since, by the time of retirement, most employees have completed the financial obligations attendant to raising children and paying mortgages.) But with the rise of the public employee unions and their significant financial resources to feed the insatiable beast of politics, the following events, among others, occurred:
1. First the legislature and then the judiciary were included as beneficiaries of PERS. That ended any impartiality. The government managers – the governor and the legislature – were now directly benefited by their decisions in regard to the public employee unions requests for enhanced benefits. When the judges were added it ended impartiality as to any subsequent judicial review – usually the last line of defense for citizens.

Christie Touts Tighter Regulation on Public Worker Benefits, Nov. 17, 2011 by C. Mergerian: Atlantic City: Gov. Chris Christie renewed his call for eliminating payouts for unused sick leave and sharing municipal services, saying the proposals would lower property taxes for New Jersey’s overburdened residents. Governor Chris Christie speaks at the New Jersey State League of Municipalities 96th Annual Conference Luncheon at the Sheraton in Atlantic City, N.J. on Thursday, Nov. 17, 2011. Although Christie thanked the Democrat-controlled Legislature for passing several of his proposals in the last two years — including a tighter cap on property taxes and cuts to public worker benefits — the governor said that’s not enough. “Now is not the time to stop,” he said. “Now is the time to double down.” Christie said towns should be able to suspend civil service rules to make it easier to share services. Today’s speech, at the annual League of Municipalities convention in Atlantic City, was Christie’s first as governor. Although several Democrats said Christie’s remarks suggested willingness to compromise, top Assembly Democrats quickly fired back and blamed the governor for ongoing property tax hikes. They pointed out that the Legislature has already approved changes to civil service and a $7,500 cap on sick leave payouts.

Sweeping Changes Aimed at Cutting Illinois Government Worker Pension Costs: Springfield-IL: Future pension benefits for public workers would be reduced under a sweeping new plan that would impact government employees throughout Illinois beginning next year and impose changes for city of Chicago and Cook County workers in 2013. Current workers would get the option of choosing one of three plans, and would keep the level of pension benefits they have earned up to the point of when the changes takes effect.

The three choices are:

*Paying more to earn their current level of pension benefits in their retirement.

*Opting to earn a smaller level of pension benefits built up in future years. The benefit would be at the lower level of a second-tier pension plan adopted last year for new employees.

*Choosing a 401k-styled plan that would allow a person to self-manage their retirement funds.

The goal of the plan is to reduce the billions of dollars that state and local governments owe the public pension systems, largely because officials have shortchanged the amount of money that should have been put into the plans to cover the costs of the benefits.“Our state cannot keep funding the systems as they are,” said Rep. Tim Schmitz, R-Batavia. “We won’t have the dollars necessary to keep paying the system.”The proposal was unveiled by House Minority Leader Tom Cross, R-Oswego, and expected to be heard in a committee Thursday. House Speaker Michael Madigan, D-Chicago, has supported Cross’ efforts and is co-sponsoring the bill.

A Watershed Moment for Public-Sector Unions: S. Greenhouse, 2/18/2011). In the half century since Wisconsin became the first state to give its public workers the right to bargain collectively, government employee unions have mushroomed in size and power — so much so that they now account for more than half of the nation’s union members. The legislative push by Wisconsin’s new governor, Scott Walker, a Republican, to slash the collective bargaining rights of his state’s public employees could prove a watershed for public-sector unions, perhaps signaling the beginning of a decline in their power — both at the bargaining table and in politics. Three-fourths of the states allow collective bargaining by some or all of state or local government employees. And labor’s friends and foes alike agree that if the Wisconsin legislation passes, it will create momentum for similar bills in Ohio, Indiana and other states. “These kinds of high-profile public-employee battles have enormous stakes,” said Benjamin Sachs, a professor of labor law at Harvard. “We’re still feeling the consequences of Pres. Reagan confronting the union in the air controllers’ strike. For anyone interested in union rights, the fight in Wisconsin couldn’t be more important.”
From Florida to California, many political leaders are seeking to cut the wages and benefits of public-sector workers to help balance strained budgets. But Mr. Walker is going far beyond that, seeking to definitively curb the power of government unions in his state. He sees public-employee unions as a bane to the taxpayer because they demand — and often win — generous health and pension plans that help push up taxes and drive budget deficits higher. To end that cycle, he wants to restrict the unions to bargaining over just one topic, base wages, while eliminating their ability to deal over health care, working hours and vacations. Moreover, he wants to require unions to win an employee election every year to continue representing workers.

See, RAF, now you're trying to associate arguments with me that I never made. I understand that's how you work, so I'm not shocked. I'll once again set you straight. I never once wrote anywhere on this website that signatures equal votes. I simply stated that your claim that ANYONE that did not sign a petition is against the recall is ridiculous because...well, it is ridiculous. It's based on inherently flawed logic. I also stated that of those that regularly participate in elections and other electoral activities, currently about 50% of them vote Democrat. Please try to be more clear about my words before you go spouting off as you usually do. I am merely trying to help you temper your silly statements that imply that the total number of eligible voters should be considered when considering the scope of any kind of electoral participation. That is simply wrong.

Walter again you fail to grasp the whole picture here. Your failed logic, comparing votes cast to signatures fails since signatures were not limited to just those who voted. Signatures were taken from anyone who is technically qualified to be a voter, that is a distinct difference. You can hypothesis all you like over what you think the delta would be between the groups. Since anyone of legal voting age in the state could have signed using all those numbers is quite logical, unless you don't like the results.

RAF,
What you continue to fail to recognize is that the number of those that actually participate in electoral events comes nowhere close to 100% of those eligible to participate. In the 2010 elections in WI, only 50% of eligible voters voted in what was a heated election (Feingold vs. Johnson, Walker vs. Barrett). So by using the "80% didn't sign" argument, you are showing a lack of realistic perspective about political involvement in the state of WI (a nice way of saying ignorance) or you're just being intentionally contrarian.

Yes you purposely fabricated something because you didn't like real numbers when presented with them. I used the same logic the supporters of the recall used, hyping the numbers of gathered signatures; I hyped numbers not collected. Providing the whole picture upset those, including you. Instead of dealing with it you acted like a child and called it dumb, yeah real classy. Now you come back with these lame remarks like it really matters.

The fact is anyone of voting age in this state had more than 60 days to sign those papers. It was not a spur of the moment event, it had been talked about for over half a year before it happened. I have said more than once collecting that many signatures was not a small feat but to claim there was over whelming support is very misleading. Since the fact is ~80% of eligible people didn't sign. I am sure there are many different reasons all these people had, but the fact remains they didn't sign.

The only dumb thing is ignoring it...

I get very anxious when RhetoricAndFalderal starts using words like percentage, average, numbers, compare and accurate. We all remember his infamous RAFmatics equation to adjust for inflation, y=2y.

RAF,
I'm sure that only 20% of eligible voters are die hard democrats. That is certainly a reasonable number. Again, I have to ask, so what? Most eligible voters do not vote. It's not that I don't like your numbers. It's that your numbers are not relevant to the actual voting process.

It is quite telling when one tries to refute the type of "logic" he spewed just a few days ago without owning up to its "lack of logic". It sounds like someone who can't admit his errors.

The liberals have gone over the deep end when provided with numbers they don't like...oh no :-)

RAF,
The last gubernatorial election is the source. Barrett received nearly 50% of the vote. 46% or something like that.
Also, it was you that said ANYONE that did not sign a recall petition is against the recall. Why is it that when somebody uses that same kind of logic, you disagree with them. That seems a bit hypocritical. Does your own logic only seem right to you when you're the one using it?

"The real question is what percentage of the average voter turnout for a gubernatorial election do they represent? That seems to be about 50% given the most recent results."
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50%? Feel free to provide your source for this made up number.

"ANYONE that did not show up to counter protest the anti-Walker folks is against Walker."
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Yeah that would be your logic.

RAF,
She was only using the same logic you used when you said ANYONE that did not sign a recall petition is against the recall. By your logic, ANYONE that did not show up to counter protest the anti-Walker folks is against Walker.
As far as your 20% of eligible voters number, so what? Most of the eligible voters don't vote. The real question is what percentage of the average voter turnout for a gubernatorial election do they represent? That seems to be about 50% given the most recent results. We'll soon see how much that has changed if a recall election takes place.

Walter what she attempted to do was draw a comparison between numbers involving the recall signatures and the state census to a protest in Madison. A more accurate comparison would have been comparing the attendance of the protesters to the actual population of that state. But using that more accurate approach wouldn't have worked either since some attending those protests were from out of state. I gleefully admit there are many who might not have signed that don't like walker but it could also be argued if they didn't care enough to sign either they don't care enough to vote or they were against it. Numbers are an easy thing to toss around to make a point one way or the other. Regardless of that the pure numbers show there was about as much support for the recall process as there are die-hard democrats; 20% of eligible voters. As I said before not a small feet by any measure but looking at it in full perspective makes the picture much more clear, unless you don't want to see it.

As far as insults go, if using her own words is an insult you are indeed out of percpective.

Plus, RAF, the whole thing where you take another person's older post and reuse it after replacing a few words here and there is awfully lazy. Clearly, you rely on regurgitation of talking points to put your posts together, but there' nothing less creative than the near plagiarism that you engage in on a pretty frequent basis.

RAF,
Nice try but SarahB1 was just using your logic to make a comparison. Now it appears that you realize just how ridiculous your statements were. The only problem is you have tried to insult her in the process. Again, that was your logic she was using. Clearly you are embarassed, as you should be. Everybody makes mistakes. You should try being a little bit more accountable for yours though.

No2, are you really that dense? I know it was a rhetorical question, we both know the answer. I never stated the only people that signed belonged to a union. But with your limited attention span and even less significant capability to be truthful this didn't matter to you.

SarahB1: Your argument using madison protesters is the dumbest you've ever thrown out here. Until Walker took over, most of your comments appeared limitedly thought out (although I disagreed with many of them). Now, your sense of denial over real numbers is just silly. But, go ahead, and live in denial. It adds to the strength of those who support the changes.

Let’s take a look at your lack of a apples to apples comparison, in your lingo you tried to compare a heart attack to a cold. Your comparison of signatures to people who protested is interesting. Your theory that thousands and thousands of people protested at the Capitol last spring while only 50 or so showed up to support means that thousands and thousands want Walker out while just 50 people support the guy. I want you to continue to think this way. It is obvious you have lost all ability to think in a rational matter. I seriously hope you use better judgment when doing other things in your life.

"Today is a sad day for everyone that lives in Wisconsin. Special interest groups have hijacked Wisconsin's political process and perverted the tools of control provided by our state constitution into an illegitimate political weapon," county party Chairman Jason Mielke said in the release.

Wow I felt exactly the same way when the chinless stoat dropped his ALEC/Koch facist bomb on the good people of this state.
Walker start walkin you clown!

Maine2010, you've posted the same 12% vs 88% tripe before, and it's nonsense. There are far more non-public worker citizens who are in favor of recal than there are public worker citizens, inspite of your weak attempt to spin numbers according to your entrenched ideology. Your assertion that every municipality 'has been pushed to the brink of bankruptcy' is laughable and deserves a 'pants on fire' award. Typical Tea Party garbage.

Only 12% of Wisconsin residents work in the public sector, but based on how much noise they make, you would think they represented the opposing huge 88% taxpayer group. Unbelievable, that such a small group has managed to push every municipality in Wisconsin (and the entire U.S.) to the brink of bankruptcy. Municipalities could use bankruptcy as a tool to rid themselves of pubic sector financial liabilities and then start over.

Another union newsletter article written by the spouse of a union member ?

vatoloco, I agree that the Dem's have been guilty of past fiscal mismanagement, but nothing compared to the Republicans. Historically, you can go back to the Dreyfus fiasco of sending tax rebate checks to taxpayers because there was a budget surplus, only to cause the next budget to go into deficit when the economy went south. It would have been nice to have the 'rainy day fund' available at that time. Then there was the Thompson-initiated structural deficits that went unsolved and forced the McCallum tobacco settlement fund giveaway. I'm no Doyle fan, but he was left to deal with Thompson's structural deficit and was forced to do some creative accounting. The first thing Walker did upon taking office was pass corporate tax cuts and credits that only added to the structural deficit. He refused to lead all citizens in answering the need to change. Instead, he unfairly placed the entire burden onto public sector workers and schools, two very easy scapegoats. The only answer to the state's economic mess is a combination of spending cuts, increasing the marginal tax rate of income over $250,000, and increasing the sales tax by 1/2%. As for property taxes, the state should change the system so that exhorbitant residential property taxes no longer subsidize exceedingly low farmland property taxes.

Vatoloco writes -- "" It is possible that that some people support the recall but simply chose not to sign. IMO, This means they must have reservations about the reasons to support the recall."

Absolutely true. I personally know several people who voted for Walker but want him out now. They refused to sign the recall petition because they were afraid of getting their house paintballed or windows broken once the Walker tea party thugs start targeting names on the petitions. Even the Gazette refused to allow their employees to sign the petitions out of fear of future retribution; media bias, dropped subscriptions and other.

HYPOCRISY? Sounds just like the Senate complaining that Congress is to blame for nothing getting done.

WisDems Call on Scott Walker to End Tea Party GOP Delays, Sign Recall Pledge

MADISON -- A day after Scott Walker claimed he wanted a recall election as soon as possible, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin sent his campaign a pledge to sign to end ongoing Tea Party Republican delays to the process.

http://www.wisdems.org/news/press/view/2...

The "other" side of the story.

HYPOCRISY: WisDems Decry “Recall Stall,” Demand End To Recall Verification

http://mediatrackers.org/2012/01/hypocri...

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "pooie since when are groups supported by a political party, organized labor, and organized political movements considered grass roots?"
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Well RAF, there you go with your half truths again. You aren't a big fan of the "whole truth" are you? That's OK, you can always count on me to be here to round out the truth for you.
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Approximately 1,000,000 signatures on the Recall Walker petition were turned in on Tuesday. The last BLS census shows there were 355,000 union workers in the state of Wisconsin. Let me give your argument every benefit of doubt and stipulate that EVERY SINGLE UNION WORKER signed the recall petition. That means approximately 645,000 NON-UNION WORKERS signed the recall petition -- almost twice as many NON-UNION WORKERS as UNION WORKERS! As for political parties supporting a grassroots effort, that happens in almost every political action. It is a testament to the groundswell of grassroots efforts that political parties choose to support them.
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"In 2010, the number of workers belonging to a union in Wisconsin was 355,000, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today." [ http://www.bls.gov/ro5/unionwi.pdf ]

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "Any state resident of voting age could have signed, showing support for." This, of course, is not the whole truth. We know there were people who signed the petitions, some claiming several times, without supporting the recall. Several posts here attest to that.
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RhetoricAndFalderal also said, "Choosing not to sign also shows support against." Again, not the whole truth. There were people who did not sign a petition but do support the recall. So what we have in Raffy's statement is nothing more than rhetoric.

lele -- what was done was not free speech or democracy. It was thuggery. Its people that justify their means by the ends. As I have stated elsewhere, its people like you that feel its just fine to violate my right to privacy, my right to visit a capitol without the large distraction and disruptions, which my tax dollars payed for. So while you are abusing your rights, you need to remember that you have just stepped on the rights of others and your rights do not trump the rights of others. You cannot be so myopic in trying to achieve your goals of affecting public opinion to believe that your individual and group actions do not affect public opinion.

RECALL THE GIANTS!! I do not like the result of the Packer game Sunday. I would like to file with the NFL to circulate recall petitions against the New York Giants to force them into another NFC Divisional Playoffs on the grounds that I am unhappy that my team lost ...... I am "re-posting" this to make sure we get enough signatures.....feel free to sign 83 times or more or make up names.

"Walker's corporate wefare moves (the first thing he did upon taking office),"

Seriously?..........we wouldn't have politicians if we recalled people based on this......democrats are just as guilty of this.....

Ezoner - if you were so against it all, then how could you have witnessed "a bunch of uncontrolled thugs demanding that they get what THEY want (not what they deserve) damaging property that my tax dollars paid for, scaring my children with the vitriolic remarks. Bad language, illegal activities, teachers taking sick days (lying -- not really sick) and not just teachers.

Regardless of your opinion of me, or the million who signed, we exercised our right to free speech and Democracy. I never once forced or begged anyone to sign the petition, and when someone flipped me off, or yelled at me 2 inches from my face, I just said, "Jesus loves you! and "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:1

Walker and the phone call to "David Koch" explains his National agenda...he's the poster boy for the 2010 rightwingers and their agenda. Wisconsin can't afford 3 more years of that puppet.

Vat -- what gets me is that with the far left -- the ends -- justifies t he means. That they say they discuss, but only if you agree with them and t hey get what they want.

What they dont see is they are asking for something that would equate to an aristcracy. It would not be a democracy once their system is implemented fully. People, companies, the free market (in any form) would disappear. They want to tell you what to buy, how much you will pay, wether you are allowed to get treatment, they want total crontrol of your life. Everything you produce belongs to them, and they will give you what they think you diserve or entitled to. Honestly speaking, I do not see a large different to the progressive rigth these days. Its only a subtle difference.

We need a new revolution, to take back the country.

Like I have stated before, we are being forced to select between someone that should never have been elected and someone we really dont want or like.

vatoloco, a couple of things: First of all, the recall effort is driven by far more than just the collective bargaining issue. Walker's corporate wefare moves (the first thing he did upon taking office), his refusal to consider anything in addition to spending cuts to help with the budget situation, his making public sector workers the whipping boys (and girls) for the state's fiscal problems, and his general propensity to serve outside wealthy interests rather than serving the people of WI have all combined to motivate the recall movement. It's important to remember that there are many non-union public sector workers who have also been victimized by Walker.

Secondly, there are plenty of people who support the recall but did not sign the petition because they knew there would already be enough signatures gathered. To think otherwise, is missing the boat bigtime.

" It is possible that that some people support the recall but simply chose not to sign."

IMO, This means they must have reservations about the reasons to support the recall.

RAF,
You can't be this dense. No, it is not logical to assume that everyone that didn't sign a recall petition made the decision not to. It is possible that that some people support the recall but simply chose not to sign. Some people are extremely uninformed and don't really know what the petitions or the recall are all about. If they didn't sign the petition, you can't really say that they're against the recall. There are a number of different scenarios involving people that did not sign that are either for the recall or they're neither for or against it. To say that all non-signers are against is either uninformed, an intentional lie, or stupidity.

"What is truely a sad state of affairs is when the exercise of constitutionally guaranteed rights is considered "mafia style tactics." Why even have a constitution if that's the case."

If divisiveness were a true issue Obama, Bush, and every other president or governor would be recalled....recall supporters try to equate collective bargaining privileges to First Amendment rights.....truly unwarranted recall based on "I don't like the outcome"...

What is truely a sad state of affairs is when the exercise of constitutionally guaranteed rights is considered "mafia style tactics." Why even have a constitution if that's the case.

G.P., No I meant it as actual, but I see what it sounds like. Either way, a recall is unwarranted regardless of the louder-than-actually existing people who disagreed with this move which affected collective bargaining etc. Simply vote him out next term if he was so wrong, recalling into another vote is nothing more than a temper flare by those who disagreed.
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By the way, voter ID will 'cost tax payers so much money' which the left-wing claims and was against allowing, but this recall-joke is costing a heck of a lot more, and it clouds the issues of balancing the budget. I cannot believe so many people are falling for this!
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We should keep Walker until the end of his term, and then vote again.
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Dear Abe...trickle up failed. No opinion about it. Thanks Doyle, Pelosi, Obama........Walker did not enjoy a "power grab", he is simply a realist who wants to account for spending.

lele -- wrong -- what I saw was a bunch of uncontrolled thugs demanding that they get what THEY want (not what they deserve) damaging property that my tax dollars paid for, scaring my children with the vitriolic remarks. Bad language, illegal activities, teachers taking sick days (lying -- not really sick) and not just teachers. The entire Madison fiasco should have commneded the national guard and been dispersed immediately. It was nothing less than an uncontrolled mob. I am just calling it as I saw it and my perception. No matter how people want to paint it, based upon their individual bias. All that were in Madison should have been arrested and if on a sick day fired.

truecitizen, I think that you are confusing
recall with impeachment.

I find it funny "NOT" that those people are worried about MONEY,but how much are they costing the state?? Plus where were all these goody to shoes when Doyle was in office,he cost us tons of money,& went about it being sneaky and made his own laws.
I am union,& i do believe we all should have to give up something,wis. is working better now then in the past,what is the right direction,you people seem to have all the answers,but i bet most of you that signed this,voted for Walker!!

true citizen - there is nothing silent about tea party blowhards. Walker took the issue he thought would be most divisive, and dropped that bomb.
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Power grab for the GOP.
Thus the denigration and villification of public workers, and putting the entire shared sacrifice on their backs from the fallout of failed trickle down economics.

This is totally wrong. Walker will be challenged in a recall because he did not waiver, and did something just barely unpopular (the state is nearly split on the union bargaining issue). He did not do anything to deserve a recall effort. He did not commit a crime, or lie etc. That is what a recall is for---a protection from politicians who actually break rules, not for following beliefs or party lines.
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I am ashamed of these people, including some of my peers. Walker did what he had to do.
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I hope the silent majority comes out for this one, and retains Walker as our Gov. HE BALANCED THE BUDGET! AND IN RECORD TIME, unlike the fluffy mathematics and real tax burdens created by Doyle and his minions. I can't stand how we won't even be able to see the outcome of Walker's changes, but Doyle could do almost anything he wanted. I blame the unions for this horrible swagger and influence. It's like mafia-style tactics, without actual violence.

Looks like Walker was feeling around for them at the MLK day event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl_gxXk0c...

Come on people...everyone that signed knew what they were doing, no one was cornered into signing. That would be as dumb as raf's statements. Most of us have a better mentality than that.

I signed and I knew what I was signing and was not forced to do so. This is, last I knew, a free country; so if someone didn't want to sign they didn't have to. If someone signed that didn't support the recall they need to grow some balls..maybe they can get some from Walker.

Bless you tele78, for your courage and concern for other people in the state.

I went up to Madison to watch, as I was one of those petition gatherers who "begged" people to sign - NOT! I wanted to share in the excitement and see history in the making. Democracy IS a specatator sport! The people that were cheering and crying with joy, a sense of accomplishment for hours and hours of work,putting this recall their top priority because it's so important, because they were flipped off, yelled at with the Fbomb many times, told to get a job and for a few, actually assaulted. We did it in the cold, rain and snow because we felt it was necessary, so don't try to diminish OUR accomplishments. You can't, you won't and Wisconsin will move FORWARD as soon as Walker and his out-of-state money is GONE!

Thanks for the Clintonian explanation Vatoloco.
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The teaparty-GOP bring to mind quite a few similes. The Teaparty with their Sarah Palin rally were like.... But I'll refrain.
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My guess is you were watching footage of the Madison rallies with the palm trees in the background.

ABE

If you look at my comment carefully, I utilized a simile to give credibility and graphically represent the manner in which these folks were bused in. I never called anyone a pig.

Retired Air Force, math is easy, I'll take out public transportation (highways) too and Your Pension and health benefits. BAM Budget surplus.
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We both know Walker's budget was just carrying out a vendetta. He is an idealougue that wants to do right by his rich masters and be the next GOP national glory boy. To do this he wants to shred one of the fine things about WI, it's public education-the future, it's community, and very way of life. A small price to pay to appease a bunch of grumpy extremists like you.

I'm ready to vote for Walker again right now
............that will be MY signature of support

donnaw, you're laughable when you say 'it would have been hard for them to avoid people shoving a clip board in their face' Nobody shoved a clipboard in my face, and I was out and about as much as the average person.

So the same people that are claiming anyone who signed is for a recall cant be consistant and rationally think those that didn't sign also decided not to? Amazing. The only thing crazier than that logic is the failed math from Abe claiming he could balance the budget by removing defense spending: math is not that hard.

On the nature of the recallers -How do you know any of this Vatoloco? The people I know are far from swine as you say. The teachers I know are good neighbors, live modestly, work summer jobs, pay taxes, and have families.
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The people in Madison protesting were peaceful, considering the #s and looked pretty normal to kind of dorky IMO - many had never protested anything before.
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Oh the irrational hate you spew Vatoloco... Is that all the tea party has to offer- a hate-filled vendetta against "those people"?

"Every body knows this. It is a bitterly divided state(by design) where Walker's extremists have tons of outstate $$ and a well-oiled greasy propaganda machine."

You are the puppet Abe. The public sector enthusiasts have persuaded you with fear and mob mentality action. If you think unions don't get outside money support you're not holding honesty as the best policy....they hauled in union protesters like swine to the Capitol protests...

donnaw,
I never once was approached by a person with a petition. I had to actually seek them out. That aside, for RAF to state that ANYONE that didn't sign a petiton is against the recall is ridiculous, and everyone knows it including RAF. The near impossibility of proving that claim is what makes it so silly.

It is a possibility that Scott Walker won't be recalled. Every body knows this. It is a bitterly divided state(by design) where Walker's extremists have tons of outstate $$ and a well-oiled greasy propaganda machine.
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Yet the cause is noble. Just to force the tea party puppetmasters to tap into their seemingly bottomless bank accounts.

The People have Spoken!
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If Walker had any courage or cared for WI he'd resign immediately... end this civil war he started, by dropping the Bomb(his own words) on behalf of his outstate monied teaparty extremists.
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Budget, my arse. I could balance the federal budget by eliminating defense spending today.
Not that it would make sense to lay all the sacrifice on defense. Do you see the parallel to WI? The GOP WI budget is a sham issue used to carry out their extremist vendetta.
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Check this out - Walker last Monday, (at MLK day, before he Scootered out of State to raise $$$ for his recall campaign, and call into Rush Limbaugh etc-LOL!. You can see him squirming and the squirrels in his head working over how much more money he'll need to raise for the recall.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl_gxXk0c...

Gandolf...if people were interested in recalling Walker it would have been hard for them to avoid people shoving a clip board in their face so they would sign the petition. So I think RAF is making a correct assumption. No need to get your undies in a bundle.

So if everyone didn't have steak for supper last night, they don't like steak?

RAF, your general credibility took a huge nosedive when you said, 'anyone who didn't sign obviously didn't support it.' That's very fallacious logic, and I find it hard to believe that you actually meant to say that.

RECALL WALKER!

RAF
Using your logic, that means that 99.999% of the public supported Doyle, Feingold, and Kohl while 0.001% supported the unsuccessful recall against them.

I love how when there were recall attempts against a Democrat Governor and two senators it was ok. But now that there was actually a successful attempt at forcing a recall election against a Republican "Governor", they are unfair and a waste of taxpayer money.

Just shows what a bunch of hypocrites you right wing nut jobs really are.

RAF, these are some of the most ridiculous comments you have ever made. Please tell us you don't really believe what you are saying. I want to believe you are smarter than this.

"...anyone who didn't sign obviously didn't support it."
There is no way that you can factually support this statement, but I'll make a statement that can be factually supported:
Hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps as many as 1 million, strongly support the recall and showed their support by signing a petition.
See, RAF, that's how you do it. Now, had Republicans signed petitions stating they were against the recall, you might have something to hang your hat on. Such is not the case, however, so you do not.

Sigma40, I don't believe you when you say, 'Ya, the local effort conned people into signing that had no idea what it was even about..I work with a few who signed it that have no idea whats going on, what Walker did...' You must be a great co-worker to insult you fellow workers like that.

Max you are just a party pooper. I think that it's great that a grassroots effort without big money backing (corporations) went out and succeeded on what they wanted.

People were "cheering and CRYING"??????? This is why these folks should never be allowed near a polling place. Their knee jerk is connected to their brain stem and no rational thought can result. They do well taking marching orders from the union oligarchy though. Lockstep, chant, lockstep, chant, whine, lock step, chant, etc.

Ya, the local effort conned people into signing that had no idea what it was even about.. I work with a few who signed it that have no idea whats going on, what Walker did, and why there is even a recall. They just signed it because these locals begged them to.. A sympathy signature.

Walter since those people saying there was all kinds of support for the recall, via signatures, the only measurable way for support; after verified. Until an actual election does happen feel free to come up with your own measure, until then, anyone who didn't sign obviously didn't support it.

The Gaz is falling all over themselves posting and printing articles praising the recall. Bias showing!

RAF,
Is there a link or some other way to take a look at those numbers you just made up...er..."found"? Since when are all non-participants automatically considered to be "against"?

Based on current census data rock county has 120,148 people of voting age that could have signed (showed support) but they only had 17% of the people support it...82% against.

In walworth county it was even worse 12% for and 87% against.

"Today is a sad day for everyone that lives in Wisconsin. Special interest groups have hijacked Wisconsin's political process and perverted the tools of control provided by our state constitution into an illegitimate political weapon," county party Chairman Jason Mielke said in the release.
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With ignorant comments like this from county party chairs, it's no wonder the Republican party in Wisconsin is in disarray and in serious danger of losing not only control of the Senate but the Governorship and Lieutenant Governorship.

Great job Rock County............ now just remember to vote out Paul Ryan when the time comes, Stick a memo on your refrigerator.

Huge demand for another newspaper in Janesville. Gazette at times seems one dimensional & bias.

The Million Person Whine-One glass and you lose you mind.

Jason Mielke:"The sad day for Wisconsin was when Walker took office and implemented a plan that has polarized the state. The cost of the recall is on the Koch puppet that didn't want to talk. Now that a million people have signed the recall Scottie is looking forward to talking with the citzens of Wisconsin. Such a swell fellow! Recall the weasel!

Republican chairman Jason Mielke is way over the top when he calls the recall process an 'illegitimate political weapon'. He must not know Walker's own political history, or the history of the state's Republican party very well.

Way to go Rock County!