Congratulations to MPC for coming to Janesville. It is a positive and forward action that is needed in this community. Sad we have so many negative thinkers around. By the way negative thinkers, how many jobs have you created? If not, why not? How much do you pay your employee's? You have all the answers so lets see them! Come on now, don't be afraid to step up and provide the positive actions you would take other then recall's.

FOTH:
Excellent point as always.
Even if the governmnet just asked for something 'minimal' in return. Like some minimal community service work, I think it would then at least rid some of this total entitlement attitude that is becoming so prevalent nowadays. Like or hate FDR, he at least made unemployed people do basic public service work to collect a paycheck.

Ezoner, and fear&rhetoric:
Yes, I agree with your points. That is why I put in the last paragraph in my posting. I just can't say I am against Janesville for doing what they needed, to do to bring much needed jobs. I mean if you sit on your hands and do nothing, unfortunately you will lose out to another community. As I said, the problem is you have a system in place that is allowing this legalized extortion, and favoritism. I have no problem with open and free markets, but when you have governmnet giving SPECIALIZED treatment to big business, it's clearly an un-level playing field. If I was to open a small company that did the exact same sort of business as MPC did...Planned on having a very small building, and just a handful of employees, would I get any tax break? You see where the problem arises. Once the governmnet starts giving private industry special treatment, is when a state of oligarchy begins to take place. Oligarchy is exactly what we are becoming as governmnet becomes more and more entangled into private enterprise, and each looks out for the other.

You people that rip on Walmart and McDonalds amaze me. At least they do create jobs, and not all jobs can pay a living wage to support a family. That is why you gain skills so you can make more money. If every job paid $30 bucks an hour a big mac would be $16 dollars and your average tv would be $3,000 dollars. If not for people comming up with great ideas that sell and then become wealthy no one would be employed.

gonfo5..... McDonalds seems to work quite well..... not sure a family can survive on the income though. This is an example only.... the list goes on and on. These are the jobs the wealthy offer... from Walmarts (with 5 checkouts open) to a paper route.
How much did Corporate Walmart suck out of Janesville businesses, and where does that money go. How many jobs were killed off or shut down?
Big 1% America holds the cards and 99% of the odds.

So for the folks on here that don't want the city of Janesville to give incentives to companies to move to Janesville then put your money where your mouth is. Run for City Council and figure out a way to bring companies to Janesville without giving any type incentive. It's always easy to sit back and say you don't like what they are doing so run for the position and change it to what you think will work. Simple enough, right?

EVERY siungle member of a union pays taxes. This isn't about unions. Unions represent their workers, whether you like it or not. Its about corps VS individuals. All you have is union extortion? You certainly are a one trick pony my friend. Even without unions this problem exists.

FUnny Kio -- I see the unions -- public or private as extorting money out of teh corporation and the public. So the same analogy of extortion exists across the board. Actually -- I believe its the cities bribing the companies to take residence or to stay in their location. The cities see it as a way to expand or maintain their tax base. So in many cases -- its the city officials trying to get re-elected and their own political aspirations. My centention in the unions DO extort -- i.e. your roads wont get plowed, your garbage will sit, we will not educate your children unless we get more money and more benefits.

Kiwo_ while I agree with youe sentiment in general , I have a much larger problem with the tax breaks and legal extortion that corporations are preforming on the Governements of the states. They essentially are bribing states for new facilities and tax breaks to keep or relocate their businesses. Its absolute extortion IMO, and should be illegal.
Take Thomas Industries for example, moved to Louisianna for 20 million in tax breaks and a new facility built by the taxpayers of louisiana!! The owners essentially let Governors bid against each other and essentially screw over what ever community and group of workers they leave in the dust. Harley did it to the Milwaukee area and won , not only huge financial concessions from their workers and offers of huge tax breaks which they turned down for a litany of reasons, one of which IMO will mean an eventual departure from Wisconsin.
In the case of Thomas Industries Bobby Jindal gave 20 million in breaks, in the other Doyle offers 25 million in breaks, either way the company wins and the people lose.
What I wonder is when the 67% of corporations will be held to account for the government services that they USE in Wisconsin and start paying taxes, and take the burden off of the property tax payer. unlike the suspicion that continues to float about business having such a hard time in Wisconsin, the reality is that the great majority of the tax burden in Wisconsin is on the local property tax payers, not business, that is why our rates are so high cwhen compared nationally.

Bigsmurf

I am so glad you have a job....

Out of 53 comments, only 4 are worth reading nevermind writing them. I work at MPC and would most likely be moving to Janesville.<I hope because thats where I live> Not much is being said to us as of now but I believe the whole warehouse would move to here so the 90 jobs would be new not "30 transfers". The new warehouse is double and much needed then what we have now so they are going to need new hires no matter what. $10 is not the starting pay for most of the jobs. I started out alot more than that. This article has nothing to do with Walker or Europe and a good chunk of you do nothing but complain on EVERY article on this website. Go donate your time somewhere and be useful....Thank you and now I;m waiting for the comments about me :)

Ezoner??????????

Mouse -- You see the world so simplistically and jaded. The reality is the same pledge should apply to union members that are only interested in bolstering their wages and benefits and not the to good of all. The reality is I had a family member with a small corporations (10 employees). Although they could not afford large wages, basically minimum wage, they were provided with healthcare coverage (what could be afforded). It was also understood that on days when they needed to miss work to interview for better position, or to care for elders or children, their job would be waiting for them. What was not tolerated, was when someone took off a Monday for a Sunday football hang-over. There was an expectation of mutual respoect, which is what I do not see in many of your comments and comments from some others.

For the Wealthy...by the Wealthy

“I pledge allegiance” (I promise to be true)

“to the flag” (to the symbol of our country)

“of the United States of America” (each state that has joined to make our country)

“and to the Republic” (a republic is a country where the people choose others to make laws for them -- the government is “of, by and for” the people)...... not just the wealthy!

“for which it stands,” (the flag means the country)..... not the corporation flag!

“one nation” (a single country) ..... not just the 1% (example Kochs)

“under God,” (the people believe in a supreme being) ......

“indivisible,” (the country cannot be split into parts) .... Walkers , fritz boys, Ryans and other puppets!

“with Liberty and Justice” (with freedom and fairness)..... Something Walkers dad should have educated him on.

“for all.” (for each person in the country...you and me!)...... not just the 1%

The pledge says you are promising to be true to the United States of America! Long live the Government and down with corporation corruption gangs.

Very proud to have Scott Walker as "OUR" Wisconsin Governor!!!! A leader leading a charge!!!
http://www.scottwalker.org/
http://www.facebook.com/scottwalkerforgo...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Walke...)

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/06/markets/...

"http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/06/markets/europe_debt_crisis/index.htm?hpt=hp_t3"

West or bust

Yet more evidence of Europe socialism in collapse......

Don't worry Europe...we are right behind you....

SarahB1's and Kiowamohican's discussion of the similarities between individual and business subsidies is excellent. Not to take anything away from their valid points, there is one major difference so ingrained and accepted in our society that it is rarely even discussed.

Everyone seems to agree that any handout given to business from government include a demand to receive something in return. That's perfectly fair of course, since that's how commerce operates everywhere. None of us would let a business take our money without giving us something of value in return. Yet, when the subject is direct assistance to individuals from government there is no demand to receive something of value in return. In fact, there isn't even a polite request for anything whatsoever from the recipient in return!

Even if (hypothetically) all of us were in complete agreement that government has a legitimate, moral obligation to provide and maintain safety nets for individuals, when the heck and how the heck did it ever become acceptable to not even ASK recipients for something of value in return? The implication is that these individuals are helpless and/or have nothing of value to offer. Generous amounts of free food, free healthcare, free education and even free money are handed out with no strings attached because... well, because it's simply "deserved". But such "free" government stuff is only possible when the money to buy it is forcefully taken from other individuals who, in turn, are provided nothing of value in return. Here it the implication is that these individuals do not deserve to have that money. Someone else does.

So, governments take money from some individuals without offering anything of value in return then give it to other individuals without asking anything of value in return. The most insane part of this totally bizarre and screwed-up arrangement is that Americans quietly tolerate it, which in turn teaches our children to blindly accept it as how a "normal" society is supposed to operate.

Ron Paul 2012

kiowamohican
I couldn't agree with you more on your comment, the main reason I am republican is I dislike the government in my business. The more they supply for us, the less free we become. The unfortunate part is that I really do dislike greedy and powerful companies. You have to take the good with the bad, and I choose smaller government. Unless there is a candidate, that will stop playing politics, and take care of both these problems. More government makes us look like we can't take care of ourselves. I do agree you will always need some sort of welfare program, for the people who can't take care of themselves, but it should be a means to bettering yourself, not sitting on it and collecting forever.

SarahB: You are essentially correct. One form is stimulus on the demand side, and one is stimulus on the supply side. Both, in theory, stimulate the economy. Only difference is what side you are on politically. The left wants the demand side (unemployment benefits) while the right wants the supply side (tax breaks to business'). I personally think BOTH have gone a muck. Way to many individuals are now reliant on the governmnet for endless UEI benefits, and way to may companies are now reliant on the governmnet for huge tax breaks-credits, loans, grans, ext. There were many prosperous days in past decades where neither was totally reliant on governmnet welfare, and things worked just fine. Now basically, EVERYONE is, both business, and the individual. And it's the big reason why the country is really heading south, IMO.

SarahB1
You are right in the unemployment check part that you wrote, the problem is that once people are on unemployment, they are getting easy money and not having to work for it. Why would you get a job if you were being given money for freeeeeeee. It was a system set up to provide something for people who had no control over their job shutting down, or people who get fired because of corrupt businesses to have something. It has evolved into allowing people who get fired for their own stupidity to collect as well.

"Giving government handouts to wealthy companies or those businesses with stockholders is beyond welfare - it's criminal"

I see no broken laws. More criminal is spending billions on folks who do have the ability to get off poverty but CHOOSE to keep getting handouts. But, again, there are no laws against that when you have people who desecrate, with collective activism, the Constitution.

http://newsbleat.com/2011/10/26/the-euro...

West or bust, here you go.

"The richer member nations can’t continue to support the poorer ones, especially when the poorer ones are that way because of their excessive welfare handouts. All that does is bring down every member nation."

In the above quote, substitute member nations with US citizens.

billnewbie, TIF revenue is money withheld from the collective fund. And, while it goes missing, the collective taxpayers living outside the TIF are picking up the tab for government services and schools that those in the TIF enjoy. It becomes a double hit. So, thanks for helping me prove the point that you and some others here firmly believe that we have a government that believes they can tax its citizens into prosperity - and you strongly support it. What I don't get is the constant denial. Are you afraid of being called a socialist? ALL of those deals with "incentives" are generated through government collectivism and tax code and you wrote, "it's to generate jobs for the poor." Try as you might, there is no way around it. Lots of local folks lobbied for these TIF's, credits and capital hand-outs - all "incentives" to create jobs and generate prosperity - all funded by taxes in one shape or another. Like those free marketers, fiscal tax conservatives at Forward Janesville. They're all in denial - but all the prosperity they intend on attracting and generating in the area is done with government collected and controlled tax revenue incentives. In the words of many a fine tea party conservatives - money taken from the pockets of those who earned it.

No incentives to anyone without a proven track record? What? No risk takers? What brand of free market capitalism is that?

vataloco, there is no collapse of "socialism" in Europe. Some of the most successful European economies, Germany, Sweden and Norway are weathering the storm brought in by a collapsing global economy due to laissez faire regulation. Europe will be just fine. Everyone has a doomsday scenario to sell.

You offer as false a choice as you do a false premise, Youkillme. For instance, the TIF you refer to doesn't involve giving companies "collective" tax money, but tax money that those companies would be paying to the city in the future. In other words, a tax rebate of future taxes to be paid by those companies. Furthermore, TIFs are known to increase property values, and thus the tax revenue, not just from properties within the TIF, but near by as well. So as you can see if you can look beyond your biases Youkillme, TIF's are tax reductions (not tax revenue handouts) which generate prosperity, which in turn generate jobs, taxable income and increased property values that then also increase tax revenue. And of course, a hand full of rich guys make more money. (Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad)

The offer of tax incentives to attract investment isn't to give money to the rich, it's to generate jobs for the poor. If only government could generate jobs for the poor without the hope of profit for the rich, we'd be in that wonderland you so obviously long for. Sadly, that "wonderland" is a myth. You seem to think it would be nice to be able to hand out tax money to people who have ambition to start businesses but no capital. (Ever heard of Solyndra?) Do you really think the government should be in the prospecting business? What a foolish idea that is. If a person with a business plan can't get capital, there's usually a reason, you know. It's because their idea has so much risk that no one with capital will invest in it. Should our city government take that risk with tax money? Never.

Now it can be argued that government shouldn't even be offering TIFs. However, That ship has sailed. This is the new reality. All communities are doing this, now. If Janesville doesn't do it, Janesville will be at a huge disadvantage when trying to attract new business. But the city must be picky. No incentives to anyone without a proven track record. We don't need to throw more money down the rat hole.

Does anyone know the history of using "entitlements" funded by taxpayers to help businesses (some wealthy, some not) set up shop in a new location? When did this way of doing things begin, where and by whom?

Not that I agree with this thought and I am not writing specifically about this manufacturer, but businesses get tax breaks to set up shop here, to hire workers who get paychecks to spend at local businesses thereby creating further jobs and helping the local economy. Not sure how exactly, but is that concept much different than providing unemployment benefits to someone out of work by no fault of their own? That jobless check provides a "paycheck" to spend at local businesses thereby creating further jobs and helping the local economy. In addition, a jobless check has taxes withheld as does the paycheck. Aren't they both a form of government assistance that provides "good" to a community?

Mouse...lazy people here need to stop relying on the govt for their own gains too. Some people are so used to relying on the govt to meet their every need they forget that they can do many things for themselves. But the govt perpetuates the dependency habit because it means votes. There's a senator that is proposing a bill mandating a class for high schoolers that requires them to complete college applications and take the SAT and ACT exams, even if they don't want to go to college. He says some students don't apply to college because they don't know the process. If they are that out of touch they surely won't make it in college.

I agree that companies need to stop relying on the government for their own gains.....
Why Vatoloco, I think you are seeing the light.

I know many abhor capitalism but many countries have thrived under the free enterprise system and flock to it....is perfect?...no it is not but look at the collapse of socialism in Europe and communism in Russia.. Don't tell me there isn't greed under socialism or communism.....

donnaw
I could not aggree more with your last comment, but to try to get others to understand that and see logical things is impossible. RAF has been trying logic with them for a long time now and it is impossible. I know many people who get back 2 and 3 times the amount they paid in, and still qualify for assistance, and have all the same things that I do and I make very good money. They are all welcome. They can't see that bringing jobs, however they can is beneficial in the long run.

Like it, or not, if insentives are not offered, the company would simply go somewhere else. Because every state, and locality competes (via tax incentives) to bring these employers to there town. It's simply the way the current system is. So one must then ask them self; would you rather one just stand on principal, and say we are not going to offer anything because it's welfare, and see the company go some place else? Or would you rather offer the incentives, and bring 90 jobs to a community with high unemployment? Most are going to heavily side with the later.
.
That said; the sham of the current tax system clearly needs a total over haul. As everything now is totally dependent on governmnet..Who qualifies for this benefit, or that break.

youkillme, Are you one of those people who are employed by someone rich? Or are you someone who is unemployed, and on the side of the dems with entittlements so you can suck off the taxpayer? If so, you are welcome. So what really is the difference between corporate welfare and regular welfare? You don't just go to the most expensive place and buy things do you? Do you shop around for deals, it is no different for companies. Do you also know how hard it is to start a business and keep it going good? There are a few people in here and you know who you are, that would complain if they were hung with a new rope. There is just no pleasing everyone.

It wreaks of moral superiority in here.

Thanks Poobah.

Welfare in the form of providing basic needs to others for survival to those who qualify within acceptable definitions of hardship is perfectly acceptable to me. That what welfare is. Giving government handouts to wealthy companies or those businesses with stockholders is beyond welfare - it's criminal. Deliberately withholding a benefit (such as a business expansion) for no other reason than to induce a bribe or inducement is extortion.

ykm...corp welfare? So it is not okay to encourage companies to move to Janesville by giving tax breaks which will in turn provide jobs which in turn will give employees paychecks to spend in Janesville in addition to the businesses which will supply raw goods to the new companies and the employees pay local, state and federal taxes? The employees can pay their mortgages and car payments and property taxes. But it is okay to continue paying people on welfare and unemployment, the both supplied by those people who are working and paying taxes?

YKM

The rich will alway be rich. Taking from them is not the answer. It has not worked since FDR was president. I just think the bottom folks in poverty have to put more effort in becoming more economically successful, excluding the elderly, children, the handicapped, etc.....it's too easy to blame the rich for all the issues in the economy.......

Yes, I agree that companies need to stop relying on the government for their own gains.....

youkillme, brilliant logic in your last comment, to which there can be no such brilliance in the form of a rebuttal.

donnaw, don't mix in other issues with the issue of the corporate welfare entitlement mentality. If that's your defense, than you have none.

TCB and billnewbie, You like many others here encourage to use the power of government collectivism, not to level the playing field and afford upward mobility to those who only lack the capital to start-up a new business, but to give plenty more to those who are already upwardly mobile. You're more than happy to use government power to undermine free market competition and bash the same government as fiscally irresponsible for looking for new revenues. When Government gives MPC TIF dollars and capital hand-outs, that is tax revenue and you support that premise, then YOU must also believe government CAN tax its citizens into prosperity. Because without that tax revenue, there would no "incentive" to offer MPC to make us all prosper. So, which is it?

Talk about not being able to make someone happy.

youkill,

No company is relocating to Janesville without incentives-whether direct or indirect. This is clearly something that madcitydady doesnt understand-which is why we have a govt that believes they can tax its citizens into prosperity.

I have to agree with Steve. Someone will complain and not offer alternatives-simply to complain. Its easy to be a critic-its much more difficult to actually offer realistic alternatives. This tactic shows their nanometer depth of understanding how things work.

Means testing for inducements to bring jobs to Janesville? There had better be. But not the way Youkillme thinks. If a company isn't doing well, they shouldn't get a nickel. Throwing tax money at companies in hardship is just throwing it down the proverbial rat hole, like we did a few years ago for GM. We don't need any more poorly run businesses that end up out of business throwing all their new employees into unemployment when the tax breaks run out.

It would be nice if Janesville didn't have to bribe such companies to relocate here. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. After all, it's not as though we have a fiscally responsible city government or a frugal school district that do great jobs with the money they have without clamoring for more. No, we have tax and fee devouring machines that are always on the look out for new "sources" of revenue with little regard for the financial condition of the folks who pay the bills, which employers are. Aside from that, we seem to have an abundance of unionistas in our labor pool who consider employers to be little better than public enemies. Considering the poor business climate that fiscally irresponsible taxing bodies and union mentalities have reduced Janesville to, it's a wonder they are able to attract any new employers at all.

I wonder if Mr. Grassman was a first rate used car salesman in his pre-public servant days?

steveknox...let's see, "wages aren't good enough, benefits not enough, don't like location, requires too many skills, yada,yada, yada." Never please some people. They would rather collect unemployment and complain.

This is good news and a positive story worthy of positive comments. The end justifies the means because every community puts the frosting on the cake for these types of deals. If Janesville stops with the incentives, it becomes a bedroom community.

youkillme: youkillme:)

This is positive news and it will fill the needs of about 2% of our workforce needs. However, individual homeowners will continue to be gouged in order to maintain public education. Whatever is claimed, the homeowners are footing the bill for these TIF districts and developing businesses as they do NOT support school funding. Do incoming businesses want and need an educated workforce? Then, they need to kick in and support the education that they claim to need. Anything less is empty talk.

steveknox, is that a hypothetical? Are you whining about comments from people who refuse to become part of the entitlement status quo mentality OR are you too looking forward to the day when a company comes to Janesville or anytown, U.S.A. and does NOT receive redistributive tax breaks and forgivable loans without means testing for hardship - getting it just for the asking. Do you believe the forgivable loan kickback and tax credits really created jobs or does demand for a product creates jobs? Is it okay for me state this? Am I negative or positive?

@USARET - I couldn't agree more. A company could announce they're coming to Janesville with a thousand jobs, ask for no tax breaks and give each citizen a slice of the pie and there would still be negative comments. Jeepers!

Usaret, since you are one of the negative commenters here who apparently read the article, what is it you need to learn more about? Corporate welfare? The entitlement mentality? Extortion? Forgivable loans? TIF Districts? Free enterprise? Let me know.

I really do believe that the negative commentors DO NOT EVEN READ THE ARTICLE before they comment. They just like to be negative regardless and they will jump on anything they can and distort it to fit their warped view.

poobah - dang I was hoping that you did not catch that. I was just pretending I was an anti walker poster and inflating the numbers.

This is the same place that is advertising for help in the job service at $10.00 an hour in Walworth, and wants you to either have or be working towards an associates degree, just to be a fork lift driver.
emac is right, those first jobs will be local transferrers from the Walworth place who live here.

Shrek - You are wasting your time trying to argue with some of these folks on here! Once I heard you say triple net lease I knew you know a thing or two about commercial property! The glass is half empty for many people and that will never change!

We have to assume that had government not stepped in, no comapnies including Miniature Precision Components would not have considered expanding into Janesville.

Thank you City of Janesville and MPC for bringing 90 jobs to our community.

Has anybody heard anything out of Janesville 4.0 in this or any of the other projects going on ( Angi, SHINE etc). Or was that money just wasted and forgotten about?

I gotta think the first 30 people will be transfers from Delavan that live closer to Janesville.

Nice rug Victor!!! Sorry couldn't help myself ;-)

Feduptaxpayer said, "Thankfully this isnt a SOLAR company. That could wind up costing Janesville say 580 billion or so."
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In your usual rush to be irrelevant, you added three zeroes. That should be million, not billion.

Thankfully this isnt a SOLAR company. That could wind up costing Janesville say 580 billion or so.

Do any of you realize that the $250,000 forgivable loan will not even cover the rent for one year on the facility they rent. Warehouse space is typically $3-4 per square foot per year, triple net. That means the company is responsible for rent, taxes and repairs. This is small investment to creat jobs. What a bunch of idiots you are.

Dunno - the radio reported today that the state gave them a $250,000 forgivable loan. Don't know how huch the TIF is worth in dollars.
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Large companies don't make a move anymore without shopping around to various states/communities for the best welfare deals.

They are at $545,000 if you add in the state welfare. Why do they require government aid?

90 jobs over 3 years for only a quarter million dollars in corporate welfare. What a bargain.