Wow, there is sure some long winded folks on here who I think are mostly agreeing with each other. Only time will tell if what Obama is doing is right or wrong. Lets hope he'e right.

As far as trickle down goes.
One should really ask: "How is it working RIGHT NOW"?
Because RIGHT NOW you have the biggest trickle down policy EVER seen, with the current fed policy. Which is of course just pumping ENDLESS free $$$ liquidity into the system, which ultimately finds it's way into the markets, and on corporate balance sheets, who all then just simply HOARD the easy free $$$....It's why you see corporate America having record profit quarter after record quarter, all the while hiring next to no one, or growing one bit. Once all that easy fed created $$$ makes it to the top, it's suppose to trickle down...

Again: HOW'S IT BEEN WORKING OUT for everyone? It's great for corporate profiteers who just hoard the free $$$ given to them. Really is creating VAST amounts of jobs, as they invest and grow all that free fed $$$, isn't it?

Just to add to that theme, when did the MIC really become not all that necessary?
Around 1990, when the Berlin wall fell, and the Communist block crumbled. Reagan essentially bankrupted the Soviet block by forcing them to try and keep up with our defense spending. A great strategy, which essentially won the cold war without a shot fired.
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Problem was that this MEGA MIC was then entrenched by the government, and as Reagan always said, once you have a governmnet program in place, all it will do is grow. The MIC is no different. With the cold war won, what to do then???
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Well, all be damn...We see a lunatic is running Iraq...We have decent diplomatic relations with the guy, but know he's a lunatic-mass murdering thug. What better way to keep keep US war going strong then to set this guy up.. Meet with him...tell him that if he takes over his oil rich neighbor Kuwait, the US will 'look the other way'...Give him the green light, and when he makes the move, it's all out war baby! Keep feeding the MIC beast with a NEW war!!...Setting up the stage for perpetual war in the middle east, and keeping the MIC going strong...Of course after the 1st gulf war, many hard line Muslim groups were so offended the US occupied sacred Muslim land (when we set up bases in Saudi Arabia) that the real hard line wing (like OBL) rallied many of his like to the cause of jihad...Don't kid yourself. These idiots did not hit us all during the 90's (and finally 9/11/01) because they just hated our life style. That's what the media, and propaganda from the state dept wants you to think. They hit because we occupied sacred Muslim grounds. Members of Al Quida we capture tell the same thing over and over in interrogations.
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I'm not one to suggest that we are responsible for 9/11, or terrorism..Just saying that it was one of the unforeseen consequences of getting involved in the Middle east in the 1st gulf war.

poobah:
Yes, you have similar data to mine. When anyone suggests making big defense cuts, the fear mongers (backed by the MIC) come out and claim you want to "gut" defense, and are unpatriotic. Like you want to eliminate it completely, and just become powerless. The DATA speaks for itself. When you are spending more defense $$$$'s as the next 20 top counties defense budget COMBINED, you then see the scope of the MIC.
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The reason politicians support this massive MIC welfare is simple...ECONOMIC STIMULUS. Seriously, if you made huge defense cuts, think of the fall out. You all ready have a HUGE problem of soldiers coming home, who can't find work (the unemployment rate with them is around 14%. 60 minutes has run stories of many soldiers now homeless after returning from Iraq or Afghanistan). Then look at all the jobs that would be lost in the MIC: Boeing, Ratheon, McDonald Douglas, Lockeed Martain, GE, Honeywell, Haliburton, ext (the list literally goes on forever). MASSIVE job losses if you made any real defense cuts.
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So don't kid yourself, the MIC is HUGE stimulus, and it's why we keep these perpetual wars going. An all ready bad economy truly would fall into the ditch if you made big cuts to the MIC. So the philosophy is simple. Just mislead the public, make up all these threats. Use terms like: 'evil doers', 'axis of evil', 'promote democracy', ext ext...Amplify bogus intel, use bogus stories, ext..All just to amplify the "threats" of all these evil empires, who are going to somehow be on our doorstep over night, if we don't strike 1st...Invade, occupy, and claim we are promoting democracy. It's all just one giant ruse of ECONOMICS. The economy would literally be completely in the toilet if not for the mega stimulus-welfare of the MIC funded to keep the US military be world policeman.

RAF said, "But to falsely claim they let it happen is nothing more than pure irrational hyperbole."
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Calling Fear's statement a false claim and irrational hyperbole, without presenting a single bit of evidence to discredit the data he provided, is typical RAF (Rhetoric And Falderal).

"Never said that they knew what the outcome would be ,or they knew the magnitude of the attacks. What I do believe is that they knew something, and they knew enough to stop them from happening, and did not act for whaever reason."
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That is precisely where your claim falls apart. If they didn't know what the event was how do you stop it? A singular claim of wanting to take aircraft, is just that a claim, not an actual description of how or where they were going to act in order to stop it. Hind-sight always brings clarity to past events. Again this same clarity is never present to future events, even in the art bell world of thought. Interestingly these events wouldn't have happened with proper boarder control either, but a person can't rationally blame irrational activities on that either. There were many ways to stop the action before it happened, as is the basis of most after action analysis. But to falsely claim they let it happen is nothing more than pure irrational hyperbole.

BTW RAF-""You really think people in our government knew ahead of time what the outcome of 911 was going to be""
Never said that they knew what the outcome would be , or they knew the magnitude of the attacks. What I do believe is that they knew something, and they knew enough to stop them from happening, and did not act for whaever reason.

Best for last RAF-
• August 6, 2001 – President Bush receives memo titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US.” The memo reads in part: “bin Laden wanted to hijack US aircraft to gain the release” of Oman Abdul Rahman and others” and tells of “suspicious activity in the US consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.”

Love to hear an explaination on this one. No increased security at airports NOTHING!!
See you like to use labels and use terms like fringe to make arguments but I still have yet to hear anyone defend this stuff?
This is what I contend, they had a REALLY good idea something was coming and did very little or nothing to stop it. What I don't undrastand is how anyone who is reasonable couldn't see this? This allows them to instill all the fear and propaganda they want and allows them to scare the country into any war they want to take us into, and into a perpetual state of conflict with a nameless faceless enemy. Welcome to the "War on Terror" beginning with enemies WE created and funded.
I cannot believe the ignorance here. True colors? I could care less what dense shallow people will believe when it supports an ideological point. Sorry to break it to you but the good ol USA is a great natio in her ideas and ideals, but our governemnet has been corrupt for 75 years!!
Believe what you want use whatever labels you want, it doesn't make it go away. Events happened, our government will hide things in classification forever, they will spin propaganda forever. Believe what you want, while I salute your obvious love for country and patriotism through service, it blinds you.

• August 23, 2001 – Israeli Mossad gives the CIA list of 19 terrorists living in the US and claims they appear to be planning to carry out attack in near future. Four of the names on the list are known and they are four hijackers: Nawaf Alhazmi, Khalid Almihdhar, Marwan Alshehhi, and Mohamed Atta. CIA does not share information with FBI but on this same day the names of Alhazmi and Almihdhar are added to TIPOFF terrorism watch list. Another vague warning allegedly comes from Mossad on September 4, 2001

The government was completely blindsided? Really? No one knew anything? Is it "fringe" to believe that maybe there isnt angels working at the CIA and there just might be something else happening here? With so much being classified its hard to know the real truth, but you seem to have it all figured out.

• Summer 2001 – NSA intercepts a call from KSM and Mohammed Atta, al Qaeda’s head of operations in the US. The call is still classified.
Atta is dead, KSM is in custody but the call is classified? I am sure they were trading recipies right RAF?

RAF you are TRULY in denial. I could separate any one of 10 of the acts in the timeline that I provided and it should have raised so many red flags its not even funny. I can isolate them for you if you dont like to read paragraphs.
Just because you have whatever loyalties you may have through the military , thats fine. But again, when you start with the groupthink terms and labels "fringe left", " OWSDEM" it shows your lack of credence for facts. Rose colored glasses and thinking that the government in this country is any different or less corrupt than so many others is naive at best, and truly ignorant on your part.

fear you are starting to show your true colors, intended or not. You really think people in our government knew ahead of time what the outcome of 911 was going to be, you are indeed over the left fringe. If government, at any level, could predict future events, to any certainty, it would be amazing. None of the wasteful spending would have occurred if they did, political foes and allies would be correctly situated in advance, and more clear propaganda would be in place! It takes a special kind of person, like art bell, to gleam items of information from other places and then conclude a past event was the only conclusion. Even an after action accident report correctly states that a conflagration of events led to causes not one; and no one has preview to all in advance (in most cases). You must be one of those people that can see a car go by and now it will be in an accident 1 mile down the road as well. You have gone passed any reasoned approaches to conversation. You fit will with your type in the OWSDEM brigade.

vatoloco, I know you're better than that comment. When you want to have a serious discussion about the income and wealth disparity gaps, let me know.

"Please tell us about the terrific widening of the gaps in wealth and income over the last 30 years of trickle down economics. How do you account for that"

It trickles down to union bosses and organizations just fine......and to Democrat coffers.....what are you talking about?

Ezoner, nice try at subterfuge there. Please tell us about the terrific widening of the gaps in wealth and income over the last 30 years of trickle down economics. How do you account for that? If money is going to trickle down, as you say it does, then that gap should never widen for sure. And it should begin to narrow. I'd really like your explanation as to how those gaps increased so much over the same time period that trickle down economics were in place.

There will always be an income disparity/gap. You are dreaming if you believe that the upper - upper income bracket will be brought closer to the middle or lower income brackets. All that happens is the middle and middle upper get pulled down. You can never achieve what you are suggesting by manipulating and income redistribution. You need to flatten out the code and allow people the independence to create their own opportunities. Bottom up willnot work.

F&R report: Mis stating facts? No. Using selective facts, Yes. Trying to bait someone into rehashing an old argument, Yes.

Ezoner said, "Which will raise Tax revenues through -- you got it -- trickle down economics. Its works."
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Seriously, Ezoner, that is delusional thinking at best. There are two readily accessible indicators to demonstrate whether trickle down economics has worked or not -- the wealth disparity gap and the income disparity gap. If trickle down economics worked, the wealth and income disparity gap would have narrowed and not widened as they have over the last 30 years.
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Your comment is so delusional I almost didn't take the time to reply to it.

Furthermore -- I would advocate a flat tax at the state , local and federal levels. The same for all in all states.

The progressive tax system we have today, penalizes success. The few extra $$ in the hands of mid to lower incomes, drives greater volumes of cheap imports to satisfy demand (qty). Where a lower rates on mid and mid-high incomes would drive higher volumes on more expensive purchases. You will see more brand and therefore, nationalistic purchases and a rise in US manufacturing. Which will raise Tax revenues through -- you got it -- trickle down economics. Its works.

Oh you mean Solyndra? The program that Bush started , Obama continued and was completely blamed for? So which admin didn't vet them properly?
looking at your post EZONER I am taking away that without military SPENDING , or non-competing defense contracts we will have less employment. If you follow your logic you are saying that government spending creates jobs. Military spending isn't "giving loans", they are spending your tax dollars to "defend the country" , so don't rationalize and play the spin game with me, woin't work. Remember I am not the one that ever said " the Government doesn't create jobs" that was you and others that think like you.
The government doesn't create jobs? Hmmm tell that to the 150,000+ postal workers no longer employed. I would say that in all that statement is jsut false rhetoric and a term used by righties to demonize everything government, except of course the beloved , untouchable military. BTW we spend moe money on defense than the rest of the world combined, so who, really is a threat?

There a reason for the fear mongering. It's called war profiteering. Plain and simple.
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I'd like to head back to military spending in this country, compared to military spending in other countries on a per capita basis, picking up on something kiowamohican, I believe, had touched on earlier. We're talking $2,141 per woman, child and man in America on defense spending every year (2009 data). Americans spend 2.2 times as much per person as people in France on defense spending, 3.6 times as much as Italians, 3.8 times as much as Germans, 5 times as much as Russians, 29 times as much as Chinese, 70 times as much as people in India and 76 times as much as Pakistanis.
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America spends more money on its military every year than the next TWENTY highest spending countries COMBINED!
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Let me put this in a different light for you. America spent 687 BILLION dollars on military spending in 2009. China spent 114 billion and Russia spent 52 billion. Why do we need to outspend two of our greatest "threats" by more than 4 times combined? Why are we building jets, ships, tanks and electronic equipment that our military doesn't want or need? Sure sounds like "make work" jobs to me! Nothing more than government handouts from politicians to their wealthy war profiteering campaign donors. Corporate welfare at its best! Wealth redistribution from the middle class to the wealthy.

No fear -- government didnt create the jobs. Government in the case a NASA, Military Spending, creates a business environment for technology and development. Which is why I would consider loaning GM or some company money, or purchasing a product manufactured by a company. I would not take ownership of the company nor expand the welfare program (which only creates debt, no products). So I DO believe in Alt energy investment where some would not, but I feel that the investments made were not vetted well. Due diligence was not done, as the investments were based upon campaign contributions opposed to targeted technology that would have provided the US with a technological advantage over other nations.

Terms like fringe, far-left are repeating talking points that we have heard and really mean nothing. If you want to address my posts do so, but keep the garble to yourself because it reallyyy adds nothing to the discussion. Other to inform that you obviously listen to and watch certain media that obviously shapes your views completely.

Third eye instead of skimming , please tell me as a part of the "lunatic fringe" where did I mis state fact? Can you? Or do you enjoy labeling without knowing any facts?
Do you really believe that the US government was taken completely by surprise? If so, I believe that the lunatic tag would apply to you my friend.

Two glaring ommissions in the artilce by Quigly. The Shah of Iran was over thrown because President Jimmy Carter had him detained in the US.
Palestine never had land to take.
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Fear and (endless) Rhetoric: Do you want to rehash all of that again? Your time frame scenario has been debated and for the most part assigned to the lunatic fringe.
Perhaps you are part of the lunatic fringe????

In short Ezoner you believe that GOVERNEMNT creates jobs. WHat a socialist!!

Some need to think about this. I will agree that funding for military equipment is a form of stimulus. Given that we agree on that or make that assumption:

1. Significant reductions will reduce our requirement for engineering talent.
2. Which will affect our univeristy enrollment
3. Which will affect university capital expenditures as well as defense contractor employment.
4. This will affect the middle class -- lowering the tax revenues collected.
5. Aerospace and defense contactors have already significantly reduced their staffing levels and we will see further cuts, gutting our technology capabilities, average salaries will drop for engineering talent.
6. Support staff and manufacturing labor will be affected.
7. In general -- unemployment will rise and it will be mix of blue and white collar labor reductions.

I am referencing this to comments on this item and the announcement of military reductions announced yesterday. We will see a double dip recession or as a minimum a long prolonged recovery. Talent will be unable to switch to any industry requiring technological knowledge and expertise. Less people will be interested in the edical field given Obama care.

Obama is making a mess of our economy and cant possible understand what he is doing or is simply moving along Idealogical lines,

Anyone see Newt Gingrich suggesting that we allow a terrorist attack every once and a while to let everyone know that they are still a threat? He said that at a PRESS CONFERENCE!!!! And you have doubts? You can call me a conspiracy theorist all you like, I could care less. What I find absolutely hilarious is how so many of you pound on the government and its incompetence in EVERY other area but this one, but when it comes to these types of accusations you just completely dismiss it out of hand and Ignore so many obvious signs that our government was so completely dishonest and may have had an idea that thi was coming? Many believe that FDRs administration had good ideas that Pearl Harbor was coming too, but wanted to get into the WW2 theater badly and needed a reason, notice any similarities?
Just take a look and read dont skim:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLE...

Sure , our government was totally shocked and surprised by the attacks on 9/11 right? LIHOP sound as crazy now? Again you can buy the mainstream crap all you like but the events of those days before , leading up to and after 9/11 have shaped the world we live in today. A world of manufactured Fear and Rhetoric for DUMMIES!!

August 30, 2001 - September 4, 2001 – Egyptian intelligence warns the US that al Qaeda is in advanced stages of a significant operation against American targets.

• August 2001 – CIA issues a report warning White House, Pentagon, and State Department that UBL intends to launch terrorist attack soon, possibly inside the US.

• August 2001 – US informant Randy Glass contacts the staff of Senator Bob Graham and Representative Robert Wexler of plan to attack the World Trade Center. Graham confirms this information was shared with his office prior to 9/11.

• August 2001 – Moroccan Hassan Dabou, who has penetrated al Qaeda, reports to the US that UBL is disappointed about failed attack on World Trade Center in 1993 and is planning another attack in New York in the summer or fall of 2001.

• Summer 2001 – NSA intercepts a call from KSM and Mohammed Atta, al Qaeda’s head of operations in the US. The call is still classified.

• September 2001 – An Iranian inmate in a German jail calls the US to warn of an imminent attack against the World Trade Center in September 2001. He also calls the White House 14 times and tries to fax a warning letter to the White House but is denied permission. Other warnings come from Moroccan man held in a Brazilian jail.

• September 10, 2001 – KSM gives final approval to Mohammed Atta to launch the attacks on telephone call being monitored by US intelligence. It is unknown when the call was translated and what was said since it is classified.

• August 15, 2001 – Zacarias Moussaoui is arrested in Minneapolis, MN with letters that connect him to Malaysia (where a meeting of al Qaeda operatives occurred under the watch of the CIA in 2000) and some of the hijackers. He also has an unexplained $32,000 bank balance, two knives, fighting gloves, shin guards, and has prepared for violence through physical training. He paid $8,300 for flight training, mostly in cash, to use a 747 aircraft simulator. He asked “how much fuel is on board a 747 and how much damage could it cause if it hit anything”? He has no aviation background, little previous training, and no pilot’s license, he wants to fly only as an ego-boosting thing, he is extremely interested in the operation of the plane’s doors and control panel, and wants to know how to communicate with flight tower. He is evasive and belligerent when asked about his background. He mostly practices flying in the air rather than taking off or landing. The flight school sends information to the FBI and receives little interest, so it contacts them again as says: “Do you realize how serious this is? This man wants training on a 747. A 747 fully loaded with fuel could be used as a weapon.”

• August 15, 2001 – CIA Counter Terrorism Center leader Coffer Black says, in speech to the Defense Department annual Convention of Counterterrorism: “We are going to be struck soon, many Americans are going to die, and it could be in the US.”

• August 21, 2001 – Jordanian inmate Walik Arkeh warns the FBI of an impending terrorist attack. He had befriended three men in a British jail in 2000-2001, each of whom had connections to UBL and al Qaeda and were indicted co-conspirators for the August 1998 US embassy bombings. His warning included “something big is going to happen in New York City” and that the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center is “unfinished business.” He also mentioned targets in Washington, DC but he did not know the date or method of the attacks. Arkeh is later deported to Jordan.

• August 23, 2001 – Israeli Mossad gives the CIA list of 19 terrorists living in the US and claims they appear to be planning to carry out attack in near future. Four of the names on the list are known and they are four hijackers: Nawaf Alhazmi, Khalid Almihdhar, Marwan Alshehhi, and Mohamed Atta. CIA does not share information with FBI but on this same day the names of Alhazmi and Almihdhar are added to TIPOFF terrorism watch list. Another vague warning allegedly comes from Mossad on September 4, 2001.

• June 28, 2001 – CIA Director George Tenet issues a warning indicating a high likelihood of attack against US and/or Israeli interests in coming weeks. In part, the warning reads: “The attack will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties against US facilities or interests. Attack preparations have been made. Attack will occur with little or no warning.” The warning is given to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. This warning probably came about because of a significant increase in information received by the intelligence community indicating that bin Laden and al-Qaeda intended to strike against US interests in the very near future. According to former Senator Bob Graham, this occurred during the summer and spring of 2001. Graham says that during the summer and spring of 2001, a modest but steady stream of intelligence indicated the possibility of terrorist attacks within the US. It was the general view of the intelligence community that the threatened attacks would most likely occur against US interests abroad, even though they knew UBL wanted to strike within the US.

• July 1, 2001 – Senators Dianne Feinstein and Richard Shelby appear on CNN’s Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer and say an attack is highly probable within three months

• July 16, 2001 – British spies send information to Tony Blair that al Qaeda is in final stages of preparations for attack in the West. Part of information came from the CIA and NSA.

• July 2001 – India warns US intelligence of a possible terrorist attack against the White House

• July 2001 – Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil warns the US consul general and United Nations Special Mission to Afghanistan (UNSMA) of an imminent attack inside America that will kill thousands.

• August 6, 2001 – President Bush receives memo titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US.” The memo reads in part: “bin Laden wanted to hijack US aircraft to gain the release” of Oman Abdul Rahman and others” and tells of “suspicious activity in the US consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.”

• March 2000 – US intelligence learns UBL targets may include Statue of Liberty, skyscrapers, ports, airports, and nuclear power plants.

• May 2001 – Defense Department learns seven people associated with UBL have departed from locations in US, Britain, and Canada in preparation for martyrdom.

• May 2001 – An Iranian in New York City tells police of a plot to attack World Trade Center.

• June 2001 – US intelligence learns that KSM wants to send terrorists to US and will assist them in carrying out attacks here once they arrive.

• June 2001 – German intelligence warns CIA, Britain’s MI6, and Israel’s Mossad that Middle Eastern terrorists are planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack “American and Israeli symbols, which stand out.”

• June 2001 – US intelligence issues a terrorist threat advisory warning US government agencies that there is a high probability of an imminent terrorist attack against US interests. Possible targets include Italy, Israel, and the Arabian Peninsula.

• June 2001 – Richard Clarke gave National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice a checklist of what to do in case the United States was attacked by terrorists.

Just keep your eyes closed and stay ignorant:

In 1996, President Clinton established new security mechanisms at the nation’s airports. They included not allowing passengers to board planes without a government issued photo ID that matched the name on the ticket, increases in random passenger and cargo searches, a temporary ban on parked cars near terminals, and temporary discontinuation of curbside check-in. Also Vice President Al Gore would head a Commission on Aviation Safety and Security that would recommend permanent changes to airport security. According to Richard Clarke this Commission “requested and got funding for programs involving baggage screening, carry on luggage checks, passenger profiling, screener training, research on aircraft hardening, and to hire more FAA security agents.” It did not “agree to recommend that the federal government assume the role of airport passenger and luggage screening ... It was clear even at the time that the Gore Commission had not been sufficiently ambitious about the job of airport security and passenger screening” (p. 130).

• Richard Clarke ultimately set up a program on Transportation Security (to implement the recommendations of the Gore Commission on Aviation Safety and Security) and a program to look for terrorist cells in the US, along with eight others.

• September 1998 – US intelligence learns of a possible plot by UBL to crash an aircraft loaded with explosives into a US airport.

• December 21, 1998 – Intelligence sources “have evidence that UBL may be planning his boldest move yet – a strike on Washington or possibly New York City in an eye-for-an-eye retaliation.” One State Department aide says: “We’ve hit his headquarters, now he hits ours.”

• Spring 1999 – US intelligence learns of a planned UBL attack on a US government facility in Washington DC.

• June 1999 – Chief of CIA’s Counter Terrorism Center reports in testimony to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (and to House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence in July 1999) that UBL is planning attacks in the US.

In 1995, Clarke asked the FAA to ground all US flights over the Pacific because of a terrorist threat against airliners. This “Bojinka Plot” was discovered by Philippine police responding to a fire in an apartment building in Manilla.

• In 1996, while preparing for the Summer Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia, Clarke asked the Special Agent in Charge of the Atlanta FBI Field Office and the head of FAA security, “What if somebody blows up a 747 over the Olympic stadium, or even flies one into the stadium?” Admiral Cathal Flynn, head of FAA security, replied, “... we could ban aircraft from over the stadium during the events ...”. The FBI agent also added: “Don’t let them hijack an aircraft in the first place.” (pp. 106-107). The preparations made to prevent this kind of attack became the “Atlanta Rules.” These rules were used in several CSG designated “National Security Special Events.” Clarke says: “The Secret Service and Customs had teamed up in Atlanta to provide some rudimentary air defense against an aircraft flying into the Olympic Stadium. They did so again during the subsequent National Security Special Events and they agreed to create a permanent air defense unit to protect Washington.” The Treasury Department did not want to pay for the permanent air defense unit so it was not established (p. 131).

We had no clue that it was coming?:
• November 1990: Captured Egyptian assassin El Sayyid Nosair is found with files that provide details of a terrorist cell, mention of al-Qaeda, and discussion of the destruction of tall US buildings.

• As noted by White House Counterterrorism Czar Richard Clarke, the World Trade Center was attacked in 1993 by people affiliated with al Qaeda and numerous warnings came into US intelligence showing al Qaeda had designs to finish the job. Further, other attacks in the US and abroad showed an al Qaeda presence in the US and a willingness and ability to hit us at home. For example, in 1992, a Pakistani named Mir Amil Kansi shot and killed three people in Virginia while waiting to enter CIA headquarters (al Qaeda was formed by UBL with assistance from the Pakistani intelligence services – the ISI). Also, al Qaeda bombed the USS Cole, two US embassies in Africa, assassinated the Jewish Defense League leader Rabbi Meir Kahane (by al Qaeda agent El Sayyid Nossair in 1992), and supported Somalian leader Hussein Mohamed Aideed (where the “Black Hawk Down” incident occurred in 1993). In other words, we should have known they were coming for us. After all, CIA Director George Tenet’s Presidential Daily Briefings (PDBs) for President Bush mentioned al Qaeda 40 times prior to 9/11.

So RAF and Vato- You really believe that NO ONE in the government at the time had any knowledge that something was coming? Something big? Seriously? Call it conspiracy all you like, sometimes in absolutely crazy situations like 9/11 you HAVE to check every angle possible. I believe that ther absolutely are people that had an idea that something was coming and did nothing to stop it. I don't believe that they knew the size or scale of the attack , but they had credible intel that Bin Laden wanted to strike possibly with planes, in the USA. Conspiracy?

http://www.justiceblind.com/warnings.htm...

Remember RAF you think we went to War in Iraq because of no fly violations that had been being committed for 10+ years. Without 9/11 we NEVER could have launched an offensive there, at least not a ground force attack.

Some refreshing stats on how the no-fly zones worked.
http://www.iraqjournal.org/journals/0212...

Americans have been so conditioned into looking for the next threat that I think it's going to take generations to eliminate the paranoia. The greatest threats to our freedom and Constitutional rights are the political leaders who perpetuate the fear of being attacked for the sole purpose of war profiteering.
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Others comments here are spot on...kiowamohican and fear in particular. Obama has continued the war profiteering, as did Bush 2, Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, on and on and on... Military spending, under the guise of national security, is one of the greatest wealth redistribution machines ever created -- sapping the middle class of their wealth in taxes.

"WAR OR PEACE"

Clearly a false dichotomy.

It's like saying, Either you are part of the solution or part of the problem.

Terrorism has to be dealt with. There has to be something in the middle. You just don't back down from the filth.

Fear

You sure have a lot of conspiracy theories.

China as stated they will back Iran in a war, to keep the oil flowing to China. Anyone still want to bomb, bomb, bomb..bomb, bomb Iran ?

SOmeone asked who the big threat is to us now.... China. 1.3 Billion people, and building up their military capbility as we speak. They are the only country spending more on military as a % of GDP than the US. These guys want to change the monetary basis from the US dollar to something else (maybe the Yuan). These guys buy oil from anyone, anywhere and actually invest in the oil fields and capacity. They pollute like crazy. They are friends with North Korea. I see much of what is happening as misdirection to get people to ignore what China is doing.

poobah:
Notice to how Paul is totally dismissed for being the only one to see the obvious. The power and influence behind the MIC (military industrial complex) is FAR reaching. Notice even after Obama took office, he suddenly became pro war...Support the current policies (even appointed Bush's same def secretary-Gates, when he took office). If one goes against the MIC, they pretty much stand no shot of winning an election. You screw with the MIC, you are said to be a cook, conspiracy nut, unpatriotic, naive, ext ext.
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All you hear from the mainstream press now is how "dangerous" Paul's views on war are.
Rather telling that they say that, and then fail to tell you that he receives more $$$ to his campaign from military people then ANY other person in the field.
http://www.personalliberty.com/conservat...

The article is pretty much spot on, but fails to get into the whole military industrial complex. Which is the REAL root of all these wars. Our country has pretty much become DEPENDENT on WAR! We have shipped away, and gutted, most of our US manufacturing, and import all our goods from China now. All we have left here is this MEGA defense industry, which needs to be fed by governmnet...MEGA CORPORATE WELFARE.
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How do you feed the beast of the military industrial complex? Keep it going strong indefinitely?
Easy answer...PERPETUAL WAR.
Make up the threat of all these evil doers. Like if we don't act, they will be invading us...As tragic as 9/11 was, it was COWARDS launching an attack that any group of deranged, organized clowns, could still do now. NOT a state sponsored military attack on US soil. So I ask, who is going to invade us..Who is this big threat to the US? We only have a military bigger then the next ten biggest countries COMBINED....Only have enough nukes to level the planet 10X over, yet somehow we need MORE defense?.
All this is one giant RUSE. The "evil doers" and "promoting democracy" is simply a ruse to keep the massive corporate welfare of the military industrial complex going full throttle.

"If you believe in peace...Re-elect Obama."
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Yeah just ignore bombing libya, it never happened.

"Before the 9/11 attacks which I still be lieve the US LIHOP(let it happen on purpose) they needed an excuse to go to war in the Middle east."
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This explains much about your comments.

NVgrf, onedayatatime, why_think, fear - great comments. Get ready for the flood of Republican campaign soundbites: A noun, a verb and 9/11. Giuliani '08 all over again. They're already starting the fear mongering, with the exception of Ron Paul who has the common sense to realize otherwise.

Vato- Another label(unpatriotic)? From you, shocking!!

Are you aware that the US government coined the Al Queda term? Before the 9/11 attacks which I still be lieve the US LIHOP(let it happen on purpose) they needed an excuse to go to war in the Middle east. I don't believe that Bush could have a memo that says "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" and just stay on vacation in Crawford at the ranch. That memo was on August 6 , 2001, and NOTHING was done.
Don't call others unpatriotic until you do a little more research. The US trained OBL to fight against the Mujah hadeen in Afghanistan. The US sold Saddam Husien his WMDs that we ficticiously were chasing bc we knew they were gone. Call it conspiracy theory all you like, some just dont wear the Red White and Blue glasses and call others "unpatriotic" just because they don't buy the GOVERNMENT account of things.
I actually find it so funny that if , as an American you don't support your nation fighting unjust wars of choice that you are "unpatriotic". BUT yet you support the government making laws , making it easy for corporations to ship away the middle class jobs to China. So why do you HATE big government but buy whatever they sell you when it comes to foriegn policy? Or am I just not a Patriot for thinking freely?
I think the word Patriot takes a huge hit anyways thanks to the most intrusive government policy in the last century called......you guessed it, The Patriot Act. Allowing the executive branch to approve warrantless wiretaps on American citizens, with NO checks and balances at all!! Now Thats what I call Freedom!

Wonder why the neocons are anxious to start another war and upset by the war in Iraq ending.

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/207102.ht...
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Easy! When it comes to the neocons...just FOLLOW THE MONEY!

vat, nobody "deserves" what happend on 9/11 but if what has been done to Iraq by the United States over the past decades was done to the United States by Iraq...the Iraq war would have been MORE THAN JUSTIFIED.
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The United States is far from perfect. Sometimes "patriotism" prevents some from remembering that fact. We would NEVER tolerate another country occupying ours. We would NEVER tolerate another country killing our men, women and children (CIVILIANS) while claiming to be our ally.
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The number of innocent Iraqis killed by the United States during this occupation and unjustified/illegal war...inexcusable and THE APOLOGY WAS OVERDUE!

the neocon republicans are making the 2012 election and easy choice.
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WAR OR PEACE.
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The extremists running for the opportunity to oppose President Obama are dangerous. If you want more money and young American live spent on a War with Iran vote republican. If you believe in peace...Re-elect Obama.
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If these far right extremist neocons keep talking educated Americans won't be able to consider the economy when voting in November. Peace with become the only logical choices.

The same......they have been fighting for thousands of years....

I wonder what the Middle East would be like today if the US had had not mettled?
Vato..Al Qaeda and the Taliban formed in resistance to interference in their countries by the US.

Al Qaeda would cut your head before 911 Iraq or Afghanistan, or after, doesn't matter.

"The United States has brought the spector of Islamic terrorism upon itself"

So we deserved 911?

If say yes, you are one of the most unpatriotic people I know.

What Quigley says is completely true! He is 100% on the mark with the causes of the ongoing turmoil and the needed remedies. The United States has brought the spector of Islamic terrorism upon itself. Our blind support for the State of Israel has been at the heart of the continued hatred directed toward our nation.