Come to Texas Gov. Perry's Republican Cheap Labor Paradise;
Illegal Aliens not only get in-state tuition, but the billionaires have set up "scholarships" (becas) that apply ONLY to illegal aliens.
In addition, illegal aliens not only get affirmative action but are preferred. To go to UT Austin an Anglo must be in the top 4% of his class;but a Latino must be in the top 15%.
It sux to be an American unless you're a billionaire or like Gov. Perry, a hireling of the billionaires. Gov. Perry came to Austin dirt poor, but now he is worth millions. It seems that he is an idiot savant when it comes to buying real estate cheap and flipping it to a billionaire with pending legislation. And don't remember Texas Independence Day of the Alamo-that's racist, but the Cinco de Mayo is officially encouraged. Texas ain't Texas anymore; now the whole state in more like East LA with a Latino drop out rate of >60%. In Dallas ISD they import teachers from Mexico and Peru and fire the Anglos because, according to superintendent Hinojosa "the children learn better if someone who looks like them teaches them." And the illegals have more kids here than in Mexico because in Mexico they charge you $200, while here it's FREE!
The Republican bosses have brought in so many illegals that in the span of 20 years they have changed the demographics of Texas. 2 years ago Anglos became the largest minority, and in another 4 years Latinos will be the largest minority, and a few years after that Latinos will be the majority of the population. The same pattern occurred with school age children in 2000, and now Anglo kids are 33% of the school age population with Latinos being over 50%. And some fools' taxes have gotta pay for all that-AND MORE!
During Gov. Bush's term El Cenizo Texas declared Spanish to be the official language. Now Pres. Bush junior just spends his days counting the money he made and continues to be paid for services rendered to "his (billionaire) base".

"I believe in the laws that men create. But I believe more in the laws of God. I know that God has the last word." I do too but consider how God in the Old Testament commanded the Israelites how to deal with national sovereignty and security. I would have not wanted to be an unwanted visitor in Israel in those days or now either. We are the only country in the world that does not protect our borders. This is not immigration it is an invasion. Invasions should be met with a military response not a "aw shucks its just some folks trying to better their lives" Almost all drugs originate from south of the border and come through that border. It is high time to follow Gods law concerning this. I would settle for following the laws we already have on the books.

Frogger writes:
"why do you think this WOULDN'T happen? You are here illegally. You were ARRESTED that is what happens!....
It is because you are not following the law- that is a criminal- you are correct."
***
Simmer down Patriot, I don't think the illegals are reading the Jazette forums. But if you really want to show your patriotism - you can get a bus ticket down to TX or AZ and join the Minutemen.
*
The weather's kind of nice down there I hear ha ha ha. But summers are brutal. We are considering posting some Minutemen up along Lake Superior for the summer. Beautiful up North. And bonus-you'd be a bit upstream from the new mine!

"A representative of the Mexican consulate helped her apply for a bond to be released. An immigration judge told her she had to leave the country voluntarily in 120 days. Marta appealed the case, which still is being fought in the courts."
appeal- how do win appeal when you are here illegally?

""If I had known this would happen, I would have never come to this country," she said. "How can we be treated like this? It is very inhuman. Sometimes, the American dream becomes the American nightmare. In Mexico, we are very poor, but at least we are free. "

why do you think this WOULDN'T happen? You are here illegally. You were ARRESTED that is what happens!
120 days to leave is a long time. Enough to just hide again and get a "new" soc sec number.

". In Mexico, we are very poor, but at least we are free. "
We are free here too as long as we obey the law and ARE a CITIZAN!

"We are humans, but the government treats us like we are criminals.""
It is because you are not following the law- that is a criminal- you are correct.

Thanks for the update on Normy...even the day of the vote, he seemed the type to put that day's expediency ahead of the long-term betterment of the country...i.e. voting to look tougher on immigration that day, and now carrying on with an organization supporting amnesty and kowtowing to all immigration.

Normy dovetails nicely with the voter ID issue currently making so many folks mad...since he can claim to be an officeholder who actually lost due to fraudulent votes cast by felons. Sadly, current voter ID measures don't do enough to have prevented most of those votes, but one can dream, someday, of a voter roll closed 20-30 days before an election, with checks and double-checks installed to make sure each vote is from a real person, alive, residing where they say they are, eligible to vote, and a U.S. citizen. Wow...wouldn't that be nice?

Norm Coleman had much more reason to vote against S. 1348 and S. 1639 than because his phone was ringing. He was up for re-election in a short 16 months and was starting to vote to differentiate himself from his Democrat challenger. He knew this would be a popular vote with his Republican constituents. Coleman had voted against several of the procedural votes leading up to the vote on cloture that failed on both S. 1348 and S. 1639.

That said, I think that without the looming re-election it would be a close call if something as simple as a bunch of phone calls could cause Coleman to turn his back on his roots as a social liberal. In 1993 while running for mayor Norm Coleman said, "I am a lifelong Democrat. Some accuse me of being the fiscal conservative in this race — I plead guilty! I'm not afraid to be tight with your tax dollars. Yet, my fiscal conservatism does not mean I am any less progressive in my Democratic ideals. From Bobby Kennedy to George McGovern to Warren Spannaus to Hubert Humphrey to Walter Mondale — my commitment to the great values of our party has remained solid."

Three years later he became a Republican when the opportunity of running for statewide office on the Republican ticket was made available.

After losing his Senate re-election bid, Norm Coleman formed the American Action Network that has raised $30 million. One of the groups that the American Action Network is supporting is the Hispanic Action Network. HAN continues to strive for comprehensive immigration reforms. Probably no more of a conflicted record than your typical politician.

For a great video explaining the math behind NumbersUSA...just google "immigration gumballs" and you'll find at least two versions...the original, which has to do with how many we allow into the U.S.A. and the unsustainability of that path...and the other, newer version, which focuses on how America, already the most generous immigration country in the whole world, could do even MORE and still not make the slightest dent in the poverty and ruination in so many areas of the world...point being that our generosity is already way above sustainability, but even becoming more unsustainable wouldn't make a whit of difference worldwide...so it's not selfish to want us to go back to manageable levels and true enforcement!

Please go to NumbersUSA.com for lots of education on these matters, both illegal and legal. They are the foremost organization that advocates for taking our immigration levels back down to sustainable levels, and closing the door to illegals until they go through the legalities. They do not advocate immigrant-bashing, just simple math: our current immigration policies and the lack of their enforcement assumes infinite resources in this country; basic math shows that is not the case. NumbersUSA.com allows free membership, and anytime votes come up in government that can help turn the tide, you are alerted to call and fax for FREE to your representatives, Senators, and various movers and shakers...all FREE to make your voice heard loud and clear! NumbersUSA members turned the tide in the last amnesty vote, during the summer of 2007, when the Bush administration and that old warhorse Teddy were trying again for amnesty for all the illegal invaders...NumbersUSA members actually MELTED DOWN the Senate phone system the morning of the vote, prompting many Senators who were going to vote for amnesty to reconsider and change their vote. Norm Coleman of Minnesota was one of these at the time...changing his final vote after having supported amnesty all along up to that morning. You can make a difference and we CAN take this country back to sustainability of government and resources!

....And don't even get me started on what a joke our "legal" immigration system is...so absurd it even allows a visa lottery, where we just hand out 50,000 magic tickets to America to random applicants, many of whom apply under 3 or more variations of their name to increase their chances. Where we allow F-1 student visas for foreign students to take valuable college spots away from our own students, and find ourselves now at the HIGHEST level EVER of these F-1's invading our colleges, and all this during a recession? Where we extend F-1's from 12 months to 29 months and beyond now, so instead of doing two semesters and a summer and going back to their country, they now can put down roots, have "citizen" babies, and take valuable H-1B visas to work good jobs and thereby take valuable internships and good jobs right out of the hands of our own graduates? Where we let folks into the U.S.A. on tourist, cultural, student, work, and other visas, only to have no system in place to track whether they actually LEFT WHEN THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO or not? And, where our very own government watches 3 million jobs get lost in the first year of the recent downturn, but still hands out over ONE MILLION GREEN CARDS during the same period (!!!!), putting our jobless into direct competition with them, and putting our aid-seekers in direct competition with their own pleas for help and money?

Is our policy and enforcement serving our national interest?

I think not.

The combination of Johnson's Great Society and Teddy Kennedy's overhaul of immigration law in 1965 will forever be viewed by historians as the beginning of the end for the American self-sufficiency and freedom ideals. The generations of dependency and permanent underclass created by too many goodies from the government, and too many incentives for poor choices, along with too many penalties for good choices (paying for all the poor choosers), all sprang from Johnson's reworking of the New Deal into the Great Society, with the underlying idea that government should take responsibility for OUTCOMES, over and above just insuring equal OPPORTUNITY. We see where a half-century of that has brought us. Kennedy's reworking of immigration law in '65 really opened the floodgates to making America's melting pot ideal lose the heat it needed to melt all together, as it had before. It upset the idea of immigrants proving they could support themselves before coming here, it started the chain migration assumption where as soon as one person gets a foothold here, they could start waiving in family members right and left, and it put the burden on America to have to have a reason to say "No" to an immigrant rather then make the immigrant give us a reason to say "Yes."

These two forces have taken America to where it is now, fractured and suffering from loss of unity in our most basic principles, with a half-century of momentum built up for the misguided idea that America and its previously principled hegemony can absorb all who arrive, can wave the magic wand of citizenship over anyone who happened to pop out of their mom on our land, water, or airspace, and can provide all baseline requirements of life to all who need them, ask for them, or cheat to get them.

The results are clear in what has become of our country at this point.

Throw in the illegal alien amnesty of 1986 (again at the urging of Teddy Kennedy), the rise of "political correctness" and identity politics as bankable entities that provided a comfortable living to the entire "diversity" apparatus, the rise of the courts as a "first resort," and the rise of the culture of "taking offense," and we have a slide into the absurdity of today's American society and culture.

Barbara Jordan, the eminent black stateswoman who sat on the Clinton administration's immigration task force, said it best:

“It is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest.”

Has our policy and enforcement of that policy done so?

I think not.

By definition, illegal "immigration" is NOT immigration...it's an invasion. Immigrants, by definition, are people who plan permanent settlement under legal guidelines and carry through will all responsibilities in order to later receive "rights." Illegal invaders are not adhering to any definition of "immigration," so I wish we would all stop using the term "immigration" in association with illegal invaders. More to come...

Sounds like one of my subsidiaries can commence working on a billion dollar bid for border security in the northlands. Not that a guy like me needs a bid with my boy Scottie, hahaha.
------
Don't forget the extra security we'll need to protect the mining operation from illegal terrorists. hahahaha. This fear business is not only good for getting conservatives elected, but it is profitable actual business too. Beautiful.

Vataloco wrote:organizations have proven more parasitic than illegals in destroying this country..
--
Obviously you are talking about tea party groups such as We the People of the Republic, Americans for Prosperity, Heartland Institute, Wisconsin Grandsons of Liberty etc etc.

"My suggestion is simply to use trains to rid ourselves of a parasitic group who have illegaly invaded our Nation."

To blame illegals as the underlying problems is misguided......it's too easy......

This nation is screwed up because of many things....too long of a list to explain.....US citizens....businesses..politicians......organizations have proven more parasitic than illegals in destroying this country..

LaDulce, it's the concept of "the fruit of the poisoned tree". An illegal invader may pay taxes using an ITIN, but that does not confer any degree of legality to them. In fact, the IRS specifically states that the ITIN does not have any relationship to immigration status. It's main purpose is to allow foreign nationals who have a tax obligation in the U.S.A. to report and satisfy that obligation.

By definition, anything an illegal invader does in this country, be it buying a house, paying taxes, attending church, anything, is illegal.

They are criminals. They should be deported.

As for a previous, tedious posters remarks concerning trains in another life, there is no similarity. During the Second War of White Destruction, Jews and others who had been delcared "enemies of the state" were moved about using trains. The obvious difference? They were subjects of the states from which they were deported. My suggestion is simply to use trains to rid ourselves of a parasitic group who have illegaly invaded our Nation.

Hi Dave and Chuck. I'd hardly call it a debate. More like a few people dishing out misinformation and a couple other people correcting them. Kind of makes me feel like one of those clowns in the parade that walks behind the elephants and cleans up after them.

Jeesh Patriots, you still beating this dead horse. Thank goodness for Patriotic wedge issues and the geniuses that created them. Fear and hate works time and again.

frogger, you previously incorrectly said, "They live here illegally then never pay income tax never file and irs form yet get schooled etc!"

I pointed this out to you by posting, "In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003." [ http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxe... ]

Now you ask, "how much soc sec/medicare are paid on CASH that is made???"

Many businesses are cash businesses that pay people doing work for them (American citizens and undocumented workers) in cash without withholding taxes (independent contractors). It's the responsibility of the person receiving payment to report their income. I don't have a figure for you on the amount taxes collected that were for income paid in cash. You'd have to try to find that number from the IRS. But looking at $50 billion from "illegal aliens" in taxes paid, obviously many "illegal aliens" are indeed paying.

You also asked, "Do you know how much CASH is sent back home??" No, I don't. I also have no idea how much CASH American citizens send to their relatives in foreign countries.

You'd have to ask someone else about the tax on food, etc. I didn't bring that one up. I believe ladulce did.

Last, you asked, "If they are illegal and the boss knows it do you really think they are handing out PAPER checks?"

Again, I point you back to my previous quote, "In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003." So yes, I'm sure some are being paid by check, some in cash, some are probably bartering their work for other items.

1) BelieveMe said, "THE ILLEGAL DOES NOT REPAY, THE ILLEGAL DOES NOT FILE"

In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003." [ http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxe... ]

2) BelieveMe said, "If you claim exempt and you are a real tax paying citizen then you will owe taxes."

No, this is not necessarily true. And, in fact, is generally not true. The reason people write EXEMPT in box 7 is because they had no tax liability the prior year and anticipate no tax liability this year. So, most people writing EXEMPT do NOT owe taxes. And they are very much law abiding, but have not made enough to have a tax liability.

3) BelieveMe said, "poo- When you butted in on my first post, I was talking about Taxes. NOT ss and MC. Do you get it?"

You had NOT EVEN COMMENTED on this article at the time I replied to wonders! If you look at my replies to wonders on February 14 at 12:46 p.m and 4:09 p.m, it is discussing Social Security and Medicare taxes. You didn't even make your first comment until 4:59 p.m. -- another 4 hours after my reply to wonders.

4) BelieveMe said, "poo- Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said, And I quote,( A tax they do not owe because they have no federal tax liability due to their low taxable income?) So you are saying they don’t make $6000.00 a year? And you want to bring them here? Why? To starve them to death? Are you trying to kill them? I had you all wrong. I thought you were on their side. Instead you are trying to starve them to death. Is this correct?

No, I never said they don't make $6,000 per year. I said, "A tax they do not owe because they have no federal tax liability due to their low taxable income." You're the one who came up with the $6,000 figure, which, as usual, is not correct. I never said I want to "bring them here," so the rest of your questions, except the last one, are moot. Your last question asked, "Is this correct?" And of course, the answer is no.

Why don't you do the intelligent and honorable thing and follow the example of SG, who said that after doing more research found that my statement was correct? Why do you keep flailing about like the last housefly in the approaching cold of Winter? Give it up.

poo- how much soc sec/medicare are paid on CASH that is made???
Do you know how much CASH is sent back home?? LOTS
Tax paid on stuff they buy- sure.
How much tax is paid on the beater they bought from the paper that is untitle/registered/insured?
No tax on FOOD
If they are illegal and the boss knows it do you really think they are handing out PAPER checks? NO it is CASH!

Most criminals live on the edge of society, that is not news.

Believeme- It appears to me that you can't prevent facts, links, or anything of any real merit.

I was always taught that once your response becomes 'You're stupid!'== like a 3 year old screaming and plugging his ears, you have lost the battle.

I put forth a point. They do spend their wages here. If you are going to say that other people would do the same, then, we can go from there..... But just calling names makes it obvious that you have lost this one.

Don'tBelieveMe said, "Did you put Jews on a train in your last life?"

Interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian would ask me about being reincarnated. Your question underscores a belief that reincarnation is compatible with Christianity. It also suggests that since you feel I have been reincarnated that you also believe God has judged me. And he had to have judged me very favorably indeed to not have sent me to hell. Why would you so doubt a person after they have passed God's test on judgment day?

Oh, by the way, why don't you just convert to Hinduism and be done with it if you're fond of reincarnation?

ladulce, there is so much mis-information being repeated, deliberately by some, mistakenly by others. People in these blogs will jump from one issue to another as you finally pin them down on one issue. Regarding your ITIN information, it is absolutely correct.

In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003." [ http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxe... ]

For people such as frogger to say, "They live here illegally then never pay income tax" and Don'tBelieveMe to say, "THE ILLEGAL DOES NOT REPAY, THE ILLEGAL DOES NOT FILE" are either deliberate lies or grossly misinformed opinions. I will give each the benefit of the doubt and assume they've not taken the time to inform themselves of the facts on this issue.

Sg- you speak of things that you know not... REgarding ITINs: http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2006/02...

And LaDulce, one small point, illegal invaders are NOT eligible for an ITIN.

LaDulce, any child born to a Mexican parent here, who then returns to MExico, is considered a Mexican subject. There is nothing barring their return.

"Anyone born outside of Mexico to someone who is either a Mexican by birth or through the process of naturalization is also a Mexican citizen. This process extends to anyone who is born on an aircraft or sea vessel as well, regardless of ancestry. As long as the plane or ship is registered as a Mexican business or property, the person born on it will automatically become a citizen."

http://www.ehow.com/facts_4795680_mexica...

Deporting all 12 million or so illegal invaders wouldn't be logistically challenging. There is plenty of under-utilized rolling stock sitting in rail-yards across the country. Simply determine the optimum number of invaders per boxcar, and establish central clearing stations near large railheads to handle them. As the invaders are caught and brought to the clearing stations, boxcars can then be loaded, and trains made up to take them to be border for deportation.

Better still, a network of fortified positions could be built along our borders, much as they were in the early days of the country. Illegal invaders could be impressed for a years labor as payment for their deportations. They could be taken to the closest railhead and trucked into the construction zone, and deported from there, or from a central deportation processing facility.

First, many undocumented do file taxes. They do so with an ITIN which is obtained by the government.

Aside from the fact that they are paying into MEdicare, Social Security, etc (which poo has pointed out), they are also paying tax EVERY TIME they buy groceries, gas, clothing, go to the movies or a restaurant. They aren't receiving their wages and then 'sitting on them'. They are spending them in our economy.

If there wasn't some real economic incentive to businesses, don't you think this would have been dealt with before?

Also, you are over-simplifying it by saying 'deport them'. You aren't taking into consideration that many of their children are born here and are American citizens- they can't just 'go back' to somewhere that they hold no legal rights to enter. If these parents were separated from their children and the children being placed as ward of the state, that would have a huge economic and emotional consequence.

Furthermore, there are bi-cultural children who have one parent that is undocumented. If the income of that parent were eliminated, the child may be on public assistance.

Lastly, the logistical point is that you simply can't deport that many people. Period. So, you need to come up with a better solution.

Don'tBelieveMe pondered, "How much wage must one earn before one must file?"

Ask your tax preparer. On second thought, if you want correct information, call the IRS:

Telephone Assistance for Individuals:

Toll-Free, 1-800-829-1040

Hours of Operation: Monday – Friday, 7:00 a.m. – 7:00 p.m. your local time (Alaska & Hawaii follow Pacific Time).

Don'tBelieveMe speculated that, "THE ILLEGAL DOES NOT REPAY, THE ILLEGAL DOES NOT FILE"

"Does not repay?" Repay what? A tax they do not owe because they have no federal tax liability due to their low taxable income?

"Does not file?" Millions of people do not file tax returns and they are not required to because of their low taxable income levels.

Seriously, Don'tBelieveMe, you need to get some fresh air and quit trying to outsmart the tax code. People should be more worried about your tax situation than they are about undocumented immigrants.

Poo, I've got to give that to you...did some more checking and found that, indeed, Rick Perry is a traitor to his country and his people.

Must make the LEGAL immigrants who serve in the A.F. feel great that a border-jumping invader may be fast-tracked to Citizenship just as though they had committed no crime.

SG said, "Poo, there may well be people serving in the military illegally. Those ARE NOT the people to whom Governor Perry was referring."

You're the one making the distinction between permanent residents and undocumented immigrants who illegally entered and served in the military. Rick Perry did not make that distinction. Quit projecting your opinions on others.

Don'tBelieveMe said, "Poo- you do wear a person out. That is why you claim 12 exemptions or something like that."

No, you wear yourself out trying to outsmart the truth. Claiming twelve allowances (they are not exemptions as you stated) has exactly the same effect at low incomes as writing EXEMPT in box 7. Both reduce or eliminate WITHHOLDING; neither EXEMPTS you from taxes.

frogger screamed, "I am losing patience with you."

No you aren't. You're just experiencing the pain of finally accepting that your long held myths were wrong. It's a painful process, I'm sure.

poo"wonders, did they refund the amount that the undocumented immigrant paid into the system to the undocument immigrant? Most likely not. That means some person worked and contributed taxes to Social Security and Medicare and never got the benefits, just as I had described in my original post.""

like I said NEITHER will WE!!! When I try to retire in 22 years I bet the money wont be there. So they don't benefit and why should they because we wont either!!! Become legal and maybe you will benefit like the rest of us maybe will benefit. Guess that is the price you pay now back to the BIGGER money they don't pay- INCOME TAX!!!

Now for all of those who get paid under the table- pay no income tax,medicare OR soc- sec.

poo-withholding but this does not exempt you from taxes if your return shows that you owe the government taxes"

I am losing patience with you. Do you think an illegal is goign to FILE INCOME TAXES???!!!
They live here illegally then never pay income tax never file and irs form yet get schooled etc! They DON'T pay to live here!!!

Poo, there may well be people serving in the military illegally. Those ARE NOT the people to whom Governor Perry was referring.

ANY illegal found in the USA should be deported, preferably after having spent a year in a labor camp doing constructive work, like, say, helping to build border outposts.

As far as the "Day Without a Mexican", hell, I was in Chicago that morning, and there was absolutely no difference in it, other than there were fewer beaters on the streets. I had no trouble getting served in two different restaurants. And in our little town, I don't think any of our Latino neighbors knew about it, because they were all at work.

If you are breaking US law by being here, it's very simple, you have to go.

I would suggest to anyone defending the invaders that they head down to Mexico, slip across the border, say, up in the mountains around MacAllen, and see how you are treated WHEN you get caught.

Somehow I don't think you'll have groups of leftist Latinos crying to help you...

Poo -- I am willing to suffer until the jobs are filled by unemployed Americans. In fact, I will gladly pay more for my veg and fruit. They need to go back, the sooner the better.

As Clint Eastwood stated in a movie when asked where the hotel residents would go, his response was simple. "Out!".

Other fruits and vegetables......

Thr fruit of their labor you get to enjoy....

Lussonee

Are you prepared to go without lettuce, grapes, peaches, tomatoes, cucumbers, grapefruits, oranges, apples, and a host of their fruits of vegetables? Are you willing to take these jobs?

lussonee said, "They came here illegally. We round them up legally and send them back. What is the problem?"

The problem is, lussonee, that our service economy would collapse. I recall the immigration "strike" that occurred several years ago where people stayed at home for one day in protest of immigration policy. I happened to be in a large Midwestern city that day and had to go from restaurant to restaurant before finding one that was serving food. People truly have no idea what the effect on our economy would be if we were to send all undocumented immigrants back to their countries of origin (which of course is an almost impossible task). Restaurants, hotels, cleaning services, farm labor and on and on. There's a reason why business organizations like the Chamber of Commerce are not as ardent about supporting strong immigration policy as you would suggest.

They came here illegally. We round them up legally and send them back. What is the problem?

Best forward these instructions to your tax prepayer, BelieveMe, as soon as he's done with his day job.

Form W-4:

Box 7) I claim exemption from withholding for 2012, and I certify that I meet both of the following conditions for exemption.

• Last year I had a right to a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I HAD NO TAX LIABILITY, and

• This year I expect a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I expect to HAVE NO TAX LIABILITY.

If you meet both conditions, write “Exempt” here

BelieveMe said, "If you claim exempt and you are a real tax paying citizen then you will owe taxes."

No, this is not necessarily true. And, in fact, is generally not true. The reason people write EXEMPT in box 7 is that they had no tax liability the prior year and anticipate no tax liability this year. So must people writing EXEMPT do NOT owe taxes. And they are very much law abiding, but have not made enough to have a tax liability.

BeliveMe said, "poo- When you butted in on my first post, I was talking about Taxes. NOT ss and MC. Do you get it? "

BelieveMe, you had NOT EVEN COMMENTED on this article at the time I replied to wonders! You're the one who butted in. And if you look at my reply to wonders, it is discussing Social Security and Medicare taxes. In fact, you didn't even make your first comment until another 4 hours after my reply to wonders. Don't assume your comments are relevant to me or anyone else. You're a fly in the ointment.

On Feb 14, 2012 at 12:46 p.m., poobah said:

wonders said, "Did anyone think about the illegal social security card? That card came from a number that either was or is active."

Yes, I thought about the Social Security card. Some person is going to collect benefits earned by the taxes paid by someone who will never be able to receive the benefits they paid for.

On Feb 14, 2012 at 4:09 p.m., poobah said:

"wonders, did they refund the amount that the undocumented immigrant paid into the system to the undocument immigrant? Most likely not. That means some person worked and contributed taxes to Social Security and Medicare and never got the benefits, just as I had described in my original post."

frogger said, "They work here and DONT pay income taxes EVER."

That just is simply not true, frogger, and you know it isn't. There are many undocumented workers using someone else's Social Security number paying income, Social Security and Medicare taxes. For you to say the don't EVER pay is just ridiculous. Millions of undocumented workers and not one of them pays? Come on. You're starting to sound like BelieveMe now.

Even if it WERE about income taxes, only documented, non-resident aliens are eligible for reciprocal agreements that MAY exempt them from paying income taxes in this country. There is not a reciprocal agreement between the United States and Mexico.

frogger, you're talking about box 5 of form W-4 which allows you to claim allowances to reduce your withholding but this does not exempt you from taxes if your return shows that you owe the government taxes. Even box 7 does not exempt you from taxes but it means federal income tax will not be withheld because last year you had no tax liability (owed no federal tax) and this year you do not anticipate making enough to owe federal tax. Neither box 5 or 7 exempts you from federal tax if your return shows you indeed owe a tax. Only if you are a non-resident alien from a country with a reciprocal agreement may you actually be exempt from taxes to the United States.

poobah- if I ONLY had to pay soc and medicare and never pay taxes I would be okay with that if I never got soc sec and medicare back!!!
We wont ever see it anyway!
THIS IS what I am talking about.
They work here and DONT pay income taxes EVER.
So you dont pay income taxes and make 7.25 per hours guess what you are making more money than the CITIZAN who make $10.50 AND WHO PAYS INCOME TAX.
So how are they paying taxes to cover their kids going to school, getting welfare Etc?????

poobah
Feb 15, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.
Suggest removal

SwissChick, glad to see you finally caught up to the conversation and realized we've been talking about Social Security and Medicare taxes all along. So just who was wrong, Miss Swiss?"

So my point exactly- TAXES ARE NEVER PAID IN!
They do not do a 1040 do they- have to be a us citizan to do an IRS form- TAXES NEVER PAID IN.

frogger, what don't YOU get? This whole conversation has been about Social Security and Medicare taxes. Try again.

poobah
Feb 14, 2012 at 5:53 p.m.
Suggest removal

BelieveMe said, "Then they file exempt and avoid paying taxes. Crime number 3"

Please provide us with a link to the law or code that permits this and the form used to do what you and others claim they can do. Hint: don't waste time much time looking."

Form- you ask your person at work that writes the checks and you sign your name on a form EXEMPTION FORM. You say whatever number you want(cannot recall exactly what you write) but you out in an amount that they don't take out taxes at all.
A US CITIZAN at the end of the year would owe back a lot of tax unless they have lots of writeoff and KIDS.
What don't you get???

I knew of one illegal that was found out by her employer and was fired. They had some kind of fake paperwork so it was difficult to have know. This employer does NOT hire illegals. Another illegal worked with her and was her relative. She told on her so she was fired as well. What is that term- friends - enemies- picking you family-etc.

BelieveMe, don't worry yourself over this insurance thing any longer. You've made people aware of the situation and it's in the proper hands now. Anything else you'd like to get off from your conscience? If not, then take nice deep breaths and listen to some calming soft music -- a little Brian Simpson smooth jazz, maybe.

Relax, BelieveMe. Only the insurance company can determine to pursue a case of insurance fraud. You have made your determination about religion, about the decisions you made when you were younger that could have had deadly consequences for a couple other people, determinations about me and about several other things. In America, it's left up to a court to determine guilt in fraud cases. And it's up to the insurance company to determine if they want to pursue the matter. Fraud does not only occur between the insured and the insurance company. It can occur amongst adjusters and in many other ways. No need to get so excited about this. The insurance company will take whatever steps they choose. It matters not to me what those steps are, if any. Go outside and talk a nice walk, get some fresh air, calm down.

BelieveMe, determination to pursue any fraud is up to the insurance company, not I.

SG said, "Poo, you aren't tracking very well. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS TO SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES. Period. No way around it."

Are you suggesting to us that because something is illegal nobody will do it? If that's the case we would have no need for prisons. Brilliant SG, absolutely brilliant.

Poo, you aren't tracking very well.

IT IS AGAINST THE LAW FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS TO SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES.

Period. No way around it.

Relax, BelieveMe, that was taken care of yesterday afternoon. [ http://www.amfam.com/learning-center/my-... ]

SG, let's be clear, all but the first sentence are your words and not Perry's. If they don't run, walk, fly, drive or jump here, how are they going to get here? Everything I said was correct. I did not attempt to confuse my words with those of Perry. As I stated, many conservatives and liberals, including Republican leaders, believe undocumented immigrants serving in the military, and those who have served, should be given citizenship. Subterfuge can not change that.

Oh, and Poo, this is Governor Perry's original quote:

“I think there is a path to citizenship for those young men and women who have served their country.”

And there is. But not for those who are here illegally. Nowhere does he say, "oh yeah, and as long as they can run, jump, or swim here, we let them in the Armed Forces, and then they can be Citizens."

Here is the actual breakdown, just in case you are interested in facts.

" Permanent residents are required to register with the Selective Service System and could be drafted were the draft reinstated. They may enlist in any of the military branches if they meet the requirements (i.e., age, height, health, moral character). The Marine Corps and the Navy can enlist non-citizens who don't have permanent-resident status, but they currently don't as a matter of policy. An obscure law allows the Navy to enlist 400 Filipinos a year.

Last year 8,465 non-citizens enlisted in the U.S. armed forces (4.6 percent of total enlistments). Currently, 28,591 non-citizens are on active duty (2.5 percent of active duty forces).

The rules for re-enlistment of permanent residents vary from military branch to military branch. The Air Force allows non-citizens to enlist for one term only; they must become citizens to re-enlist. The Army allows non-citizens to re-enlist and serve for a total of eight years. The Marine Corps and the Navy permit non-citizens to re-enlist indefinitely. However, non-citizens are limited to military occupations that do not require security clearance because of the difficulty of conducting background checks on them.
...
By enlisting in the armed forces, non-citizens can speed up the citizenship process. It usually takes five years for a permanent resident to become a citizen, but military personnel can become naturalized in only three years, or even less if they serve during wartime." (from Slate.com)

Please note that the above references PERMANENT RESIDENTS who are non-Citizens, not border-jumpers here illegally.

"...certain qualifications for enlistment are common to all branches. In order to enlist, usually one must be at least 17 years old, be a U.S. citizen or an alien holding permanent resident status" (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos249.htm)

Service in the military can lead to expedited Citizenship, but ONLY if one is here legally to begin with.

"Naturalization of Immigrants in the Armed Forces Expedited

President George W. Bush on November 24 signed a $400 billion FY2004 defense bill that included provisions to benefit the estimated 56,000 immigrants who are not US citizens but are nevertheless serving in the armed forces. The bill permits legal permanent residents on both active duty and in the reserves to apply for naturalization after one year of service." (http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfo...)

Poo, doesn't matter who debated it, or who said it. It is illegal for an illegal to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces, period. Proof of Citizenship or legal residency is required when you enlist. IF you enlist under false papers, you commit a felony, making you an illegal illegal, or maybe just an illegal felon.

I belive you are confusing the chance for a non-Citizen to gain Citizenship by serving the country with allowing illegal invaders to serve.

Round them up, put them on trains to the border, deport them, then mine the entire border. Shoot to kill ANY illegal seen trying to evade border patrols. That will modst definitely cut-down on the numbers flooding in.

I am sickened when I see people refer to the laws of God as if the laws of the United States regarding immigration are not part of God's laws. The very basis for immigration law is protection of American citizens, based on the Lord's command to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Unscreened illegals have brought great harm to Americans, exposing them to tuberculosis and other horrible diseases once eradicated in the U.S. Among all illegals there is a percentage of hardened criminals fleeing crimes from other countries. They spread their mayhem into the U.S. upon unsuspecting Americans. All of them drive our roads w/o license or insurance. Of course they are looking over their shoulder. They are guilty and living a lie. Stealing identities, jobs, tax refunds, Earned Income Credit, welfare, food assistants, hospitalization, schooling, and on and on. The bill for each American family totals over $1,117 per year to subsidize these people. Wouldn't you like that money back in your pocket, American?

Ana's husband committed a felony when sending money for her to pay a coyote guide to lead her illegally into the U.S. No wonder she doesn't want to be identified. All but the children of illegal aliens commit crimes of moral turpitude to live and work in the U.S. illegally. This standard cannot be violated by any legal immigrant or it is cause for deportation. Illegals are a different breed of morally corrupt individuals who have chosen a corrupt lifestyle for money. Don't waste your pity on such people who flaunt their own violations of our laws while expecting sympathy. Meanwhile millions of Americans are without work and fighting to survive, leaving home and family for work. How about some compassion for them who have not broken any law but are trying to make it the legal way?

BelieveMe said, "I will be glad to send you the info."

Still waiting...

SwissChick, glad to see you finally caught up to the conversation and realized we've been talking about Social Security and Medicare taxes all along. So just who was wrong, Miss Swiss?

Regarding previous post - that would be for withholding only as I believe SS & MC gets taken out for everybody.

And, poo, there is more than one reason you have a social security card. Wow! Just think of all the devastation someone can cause you with it. But, if you don't mind . . . .

BelieveMe - You are right. They check the box "exempt" on the W-4. Easily done. I have known others who do it also. So poo, it can be done.

SG, that was Governor Rick Perry of Texas (REPUBLICAN) talking. Governor of a border state. It was an issue DEBATED in one or more of the REPUBLICAN presidential debates. Where were you?

You can copy and paste all you want but the fact is there are many undocumented immigrants serving in the military and many conservative and liberal , Republican and Democrat politicians alike believe these individuals should be considered to have earned their citizenship.

" Many undocumented immigrants have served and are now serving in our military"

Now, Poo, if there are illegals serving in the Armed Forces, they are doing it, well, illegally. Here's a little something for you to take a look at:

"In order to join the US Military, you must either be a US citizen, or you must be a legal permanent immigrant, physically living in the United States, with a green card. The US military cannot and will not assist with the immigration process. If you are not a US citizen, you must legally and permanently immigrate to the United States first, via the regular immigration procedures and quotas, establish a residence, and then (if you meet the other qualifying criteria), visit a military recruiter's office and apply for enlistment.

For enlistment purposes, citizens of the United States include citizens of: Guam, Puerto Rico, The U.S. Virgin Islands,The Northern Marianas Islands, American Samoa, The Federated States of Micronesia, and The Republic of the Marshall Islands.

Not all legal immigrants may be eligible to enlist. Applicants who have been residents of countries considered hostile to the interests of the United States require a waiver. See your local recruiter for the most current list of countries considered hostile to the interests of the United States.

While non-citizens may enlist, they will find their job choices extremely limited. DOD policy prohibits granting security clearances to non-U.S. Citizens. Therefore, non-Citizens. who enlist in the United States military will be limited to those jobs which do not require a security clearance.

For legal immigrants who do enlist, there are accelerated citizenship procedures for non-citizens on active duty. For details, see our article, Becoming a Citizen in the US Military."

So, enough of the nonsense about illegals serving. If they are, it's fraudulently.

BelieveMe, what's the name of the HOA and the insurance company. I'll report this today.

why_think wisely asked, "BTW, who is more the criminal the contractor or the guy willing to work for nothing"

Precisely. Or the guy who watched insurance fraud being committed to the tune of $361,000 and didn't report it.

BelieveMe, I don't believe you, despite your name. You said, "38 buildings needed roofing. 6 American businesses put in bids to do the work. Insurance paid $13,000.00 per roof. The illegals said they would do each roof for $3500.00 AND they would buy the shingles."

First time you told your fairy tale you didn't mention the insurance or American businesses bidding on the job. No embellishment until someone else questioned your story.

I wouldn't use criminal, in caps or not, to describe an illegal.

In the case of the Latinos, I would use the word INVADER$.

There is little or no effort made at assimilation, just an overwhelming tide of brown to drown-out our culture and replace it with that of the Third-World.

believeme,
I simply said coming to the USA illegally does not make one a CRIMINAL.
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All the additional actions you listed regarding your roof story (BTW, who is more the criminal the contractor or the guy willing to work for nothing).
.

BelieveMe said, "poo- you did not say social security, nor medicare."

You still haven't answered the question. The whole conversation I was having with others dealt with Social Security and Medicare taxes. Quit daydreaming and follow the discussion. Just search the page.... Even if you meant income taxes, only documented non-resident aliens working temporarily could file that exemption. Still waiting for the link to that magic piece of IRS code that only you and undocumented immigrants seem to know about.

"I noticed you didn’t complain about crimes 1 and 2. I suppose it doesn’t matter to you if an illegal can take an Americans job away because he will work for half price. Who are you? "

Most of these folks can't hold a job that requires highly skilled abilities......don't worry......if it is something they do to help the US economy is complement US jobs by filling in for jobs that Americans choose not to do....this is another myth that creates ant immigrant sentiment...

Ezoner, I was not talking to people who have compassion, but for those who name-call and do not seek to understand the desperate situation these people find themselves in.

Also, our ancestors came here under very liberal immigration laws. I doubt they would be allowed entry today. The current law is a total mess. It discourages legal immigration and looks the other way when people come illegally so that employers can get the cheap labor they want. We need both compassion and reform. We need to seek to understand others who are different from ourselves and have had different life experiences before we judge and condemn them and speak hatefully about them.

I also agree with your point that the children of illegal immigrants should not be given automatic citizenship. That is an example of a law the actually encourages illegal immigration. And causes families to be broken up. It needs to be changed.

BelieveMe said, "poo- Go into your HR person at work and ask to file exempt. It takes less than a minute."

I retired after selling my businesses several years ago. I asked you for a link to the code that allows people to exempt themselves from Social Security and Medicare taxes as you and others have claimed. If you can't point to a law or code that allows this for anyone except documented, non-resident aliens on temporary assignment, then you shouldn't be spreading the rhetoric.

I feared reading xenophobe comments under this article...Jville didn't disappoint again.
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I appreciate the post showing the hypocrisy of our Christian friends letting their extreme nationalism trump their Christian love for all humans. It is all relative, eh?

TCB,
I guess you are making MY POINT.
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I don't see all crimes as equal. My point is, just as I wouldn't call someone who receives a speeding ticket a CRIMINAL I wouldn't call a father and husband, desperate to better provide for his family, coming to this country illegally to work, a CRIMINAL.
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When I see CRIMINAL in all caps to describe a person/behavior I am believe that should be someone committing a crime that creates victims. Rape victims, theft victims, murder victims, etc...
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I differentiate the two and by the conversations on this website everytime that this subject is brought up (including when an illegal immigrant is the victim of a CRIMINAL) some just refuse to differentiate.
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Again, I am no quicker to excuse the illegal actions of an immigrant than that of a person who speeds. (speeding might be a bad example please use it to illustrate a point not as a perfect equal).
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How about this, a homeless family that lives in a vacant foreclosed home commits a crime? How many would describe that family as a CRIMINAL?

BelieveMe said, "Then they file exempt and avoid paying taxes. Crime number 3"

Please provide us with a link to the law or code that permits this and the form used to do what you and others claim they can do. Hint: don't waste time much time looking.

Crime #4 should be spreading false and malicious rumors. At least you had the commonsense to stay out of the religious article this time.

why think,

If you wish to consider speeding the equivalent of illegal immigration-you are free to believe this-but please be consistent. If this is true that breaking all laws are morally equivalent-then what should the penalty be? Death? If the penalty is death for all crimes-isnt it safe to assume that crimes will decline? If someone is convicted of murder-this person should receive the death penalty-is this fair? If someone is caught shoplifting-this person, in your world-should receive the death penalty? unless you advocate no laws to follow-this will eliminate all crime-since no behavior is deemed to be criminal behavior. What a great world this would be, right?

There wasn't enough normal everyday news to sensationalize, so the Gazette had to create a story to create divisions and elicit outrage from readers.

wonders, did they refund the amount that the undocumented immigrant paid into the system to the undocument immigrant? Most likely not. That means some person worked and contributed taxes to Social Security and Medicare and never got the benefits, just as I had described in my original post.

Poobah, Your statement about someone else receiving benefits from an illegal using a stolen car is not correct. I had my SS number being used by someone else for a period of time until they were caught using it. I did not and never will receive any benefits from them using it. It did take me almost two years to get the mess straighten out though.

teaparty,
Does speeding make you a criminal?
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Perhaps viewing a non-criminal who is an illegal immigrant as a criminal is the problem.
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I have real issues with viewing a husband and father who crossed the border illegally to provide a better life for his family as a criminal.
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He is no more a criminal than someone not wearing their seatbelt, someone speeding or driving without a license. A burden to society yes, but certainly not a CRIMINAL.
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A CRIMINAL creates victims.

and as for hardships faced by 'our ancestors' getting thru Ellis Island was no walk in the park according to history, nor would the trip in steerage have been a pleasure So lets not set these CRIMINALS up on a pedestal. maybe instead we should be asking ourselves why the liberal, ill mannered editor(s)of the Gazette are running these stories on their front page? What are they trying to distract attention from?

I do not condone or support illegal immigration however, I also can not hate or think ill of someone so desperate as to risk what they risk.
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I cannot imagine dealing with the difficulties many have dealt with and the tough choices many have faced.
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In skimming the comments I notice people making the accusation that they "loving living off the government." How ignorant. Many are not criminal (other than their immigration status) and are simply willing to risk everything to find better opportunities.
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I believe this issue is very complicated and too many people simplify it as illegal behavior.
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How desperate must they be to risk what they risk, seperate from their family in hopes, of finding something better?
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Sigma40
Feb 13, 2012 at 4:37 p.m.
Suggest removal Why dont they make Mexico a better place? If they cant fix their own country up why would we want them here? We've been in the USA for just over 200 years and look what we made of it. How long have Mexicans been in Mexico and they still have a dump? We could have spent the money we did liberating Iraq and jut bought Mexico. Turn it into a state.... that would solve all problems.
IGNORANT COMMENT OF THE DAY...SIGNMA you are NATIVE AMERICAN???

again.. whenever my ancestors came over to this country they did it LEGALLY, GET THAT? LEGALLY. So lets stop using that old excuse. As for helping people - many charities have tried to help in Mexico and central America. Even Kathy Griffin, who I have no use for, built a school in Mexico As far as what these people are getting from the country, their kids usually go to public schools here, don't they? And education is the highest cost on your tax bill, isn't it? As far as not collecting the social security that they paid in, not so sure of that.. an amendment to a bill to prevent it was defeated. I'd have to research the question to quote the exact info.

Mopsy -- empathy does not mean that you can commit a crime and be innocent. I have empathy for a man who drives drunk and kills someone, I have empathy for someone that has no food and must enter prostitution to feed their family, I have empathy for those that live on the mexican border and only wanted a peaceful life.

Those that are here illegally -- I only want you to exit and return under legal means. If you choose to continue being criminals, then your end will come as a misserable crimnal in hiding. Its too bad you cannot see how you would be and could be treated if you only followed the laws for entry. Like our ancestors did.

wi has always been a safe haven for illegals;IF the ins really wanted to deport them they would just go to aldi's on a sat. morning!!

It's the difference between having a job or not & it my work benefits a third party & that is my area of concern, not the poor undocumented. Forgot, everyone in Rock loves living on the public trough so no doubt you all love them.

"What I am forced to assist them with I will not say."

Nobody forces you to do anything....

mopsy: Why don't you spend a day with me? I have hundreds of clients that are undocumented. What I am forced to assist them with I will not say. Believe you me it is appalling to see the resources these people suck from our govt when US citizens in need of help have to fight like hell to get what they deserve & all too often end up dead before the fight is over. You want to help the poor illegal immigrants? Go for it. But I say help our citizens first! And as for this papers glamorization of illegal immigration - shame on you Gazette!

jesus christ? was he mexican?

Matthew 25:43-46 New International Version (NIV)

'I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Jesus Christ

So sad to see the comments of so many people who have so much because of tremendous sacrifices made by their immigrant ancestors. And now they are so spoiled and so lacking in empathy for those who are desperate enough and strong enough to try to do the same, risk everything to leave a terrible life in hopes of giving a better one to their children.

bunalee said, "My great uncles, grandfathers and cousins fought and died in a war to give me freedom. The illegal people here, can they say that, no, however they could say it if they would stay in their own country and fight for their freedom! No they are cowards and they think only in monetary values."

Boy, I have no idea where you're getting your rhetoric from, but it's dead wrong. Even Rick Perry, you know the governor of Texas (a border state), former candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, conservative, said: “I think there is a path to citizenship for those young men and women who have served their country.” Many undocumented immigrants have served and are now serving in our military. Do some research! You sound an awful lot like Robot_Lord_Of_Tokyo...

There are bigger issues and factors than immigrants sending money home that impact the trade balance.....please......that's a big myth....

Poo. Registered aliens often return to their country of origin and rent or let someone use their social secuity number so they benefit down the road. It is illegal but then so are the people using the number.

Jose Gutierrez was not an american citizen but he would have been a documented alien seeking US citizenship LEGALLY.

I would also point out that the money Illegals make is not all spent on things here in the US. They send huge amounts out of the country, futher hurting our trade balance.

"One of the first U.S. soldiers to die in Iraq, Jose Gutierrez, was an orphaned Guatemalan who at the time of his death was not even an American citizen."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

My great uncles, grandfathers and cousins fought and died in a war to give me freedom. The illegal people here, can they say that, no, however they could say it if they would stay in their own country and fight for their freedom! No they are cowards and they think only in monetary values.

"Ever wonder how much taxpayer money is spent on illegal immigrants? A LOT MORE!"

Prove it........illegal immigrants bring in more money than is spent on the supposed welfare that they magically get......plus most are not eligible to get these service because they are illegal.....more people that are legal participate in these welfare programs...

wonders said, "Did anyone think about the illegal social security card? That card came from a number that either was or is active."

Yes, I thought about the Social Security card. Some person is going to collect benefits earned by the taxes paid by someone who will never be able to receive the benefits they paid for.

Orange -- who made it our responsibility to help the entire world -- its not. We need to help our people at home . Maybe if we had held to that we wouldnt be in debt -- at least not as bad. Lokk its simple -- I dont care what business or job they have. If they are illegal -- get out. Some back when you can enter legally. I would personally shake their hand and welcome them at that point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjspZ4R-6... Wonder if the gazette will advertise this movie?

vatoloco
Feb 14, 2012 at 11:21 a.m.
Suggest removal

Ever wonder how much money immigrant businesses bring in to the tax system?

A lot.....

Ever wonder how much taxpayer money is spent on illegal immigrants? A LOT MORE!
And have you actually ever spent any time checking out the fact that most illegal immigrant businesses not having to pay the same taxes that American business owner have to pay, most pay zero for a number of years and send that money back home to relatives still living there, what part of illegal is so hard to understand here? I have no problems what so ever with those who come to this country to try and make a better life for them selves, most of us can trace our families back to when they came to this country, the difference is our families did it legally and went through the process of becoming an American citizen, and they learned the language. If people from Mexico or any other countries want to come and live here they should do so the same way our ancestors did, be documented, learn the language and pay the same taxes that the rest of us do, if not then they can suffer the penalties of the law to the fullest extent! Pretty cut and dry I would say.....

It's very simple why there is little done about the problem of immigration. There is no MONEY in it for the government. The government enforces laws against its own citizens because there IS money in it for the ruling class. I'm surprized that people make the problem tougher than it really is.

We drove a motor home in a caravan 800 miles into the interior of Mexico a number of years ago. We had to hire security even then. The road ways all looked like the photo. Trash is simply discarded at will everywhere. Must be part of their culture.

Ever wonder how much money immigrant businesses bring in to the tax system?

A lot.....

Please keep in mind that we are a nation of immigrants......it's easy for many to place the blame on others for our current problems....if its something these Mexican families bring to our nation is much needed family values....a characteristic that truly escapes the US.....

Geesh... Maybe the liberals and conservatives of America should simply divide up the 48 continental states into two separate nations, the LUSA-24 and the CUSA-24. Just leave Hawaii and Alaska for libertarians and others who can't take it anymore. Thanks in advance! :-)

This country is choking on the blood of bleeding hearts.

saxcat That is not garbage that is PERSONAL belongings they had to leave behind If you would watch the news They are TELLING the kids not to go to Mexico on spring break and if they do , not to leave their area more then 2 blocks AS TO THE DRUG LORDS AND COPS SHOOTOUTS in broad daylight and many innocent people have died The conditions they have to live in IS not right for anyone I know they want a better life and So many say nothing but Job takers and criminals, well I have worked with many and never seen harder workers in my life. As to criminals I must look at how they have to live and hide and what forces them into that life. IF I RECALL THIS WAS ALWAYS CALLED THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE, IT SEEMS AS NOW IT SHOULD BE CALLED """THE LAND OF HATE AND PREJUDICE AND EXCLUSIVE HOME TO THE RICH AND POWERFUL""".....

orange,
Do you know something we don't? Please, if you do, you should report any illegal activity?

The Amnesty Trail was (is) a disgrace !!! The trail is not used as much now as a few years back.Now the do gooders set up water stations for them to survive the desert heat.Try telling the families in Arizona that lost EVERYTHING in the wild fire this past summer.That fire was started by illegals trying to stay warm in the mountains.Senseless.100 plus homes and 20 business lost.The fire came up and over the mountain and took whole neighborhoods and left nothing....All for what and at whose expense?? Hard working LEGAL Americans...thats who !

Hey, the cheaper my labor is, the more my profits are. It's win/win, so let 'em come work, it's not like us, the employers ever get caught. Better to blame it all on the illegals that come over here. It takes the heat off of us.

Thank you, Janesville, Wisconsin, Gazette for a powerful series on the realites of life for undocumented immigrants. I am saddened by all the angry, hateful, frightened responses they are generating. They refect a complete lack of knowledge of the history of U.S. political and economic manipulation of Mexican immigration since the 19th century.

Thanks Anna, for TAKING someone elses SS #. It is not yours and some person or family is going through alot of crap just because YOU feel you are entitled to it. Some how this THEFT is ok since she needs to survive, however if a drug dealer hijacks your car by gunpoint just so they can get cash to buy drugs is that ok? Come here legally and I dont have a problem. Also your kids already have attitudes it sounds like as well. "dont buy milk or fruit" really?

Hope she is reading this or at least can have her kids read this....

We should annex Mexico. It sure would solve all the landfill issues many communities face. I would prefer sending trash there rather than American jobs.

I wonder how many people that have made comments today eat at the Mexican food places in Janesville....and LOVE IT ?? Your not making negative comments while your stuffing your face with chips and salsa, being served by, you guessed it, an illegal !We are all human beings, doing what is best for ourselves and our families.Don't like the way they go about helping their families ? What have you done to help ?What would YOU want someone to do for you if you were in their shoes ?It's a tough world we're living in, how can we help ?

gbwbill....what's disgusting is the picture of all the trash left behind by illegal immigrants. It is a perfect example of what they have done to our country.

Lets start a "buy Mexico" foundation. We can raise money to purchase Mexico, make it another state and then people will flock there.

Although I don't always agree with Kim Olson, I believe he honestly makes some very accurate statements in the Gazette article 'Amnesties are not an option.'

I hope the intellectual liberal elite --the folks who would tend to pamper and forgive the illegal immigrant population -- read this article again and do some deep soul searching.

I am ok with people that follow the process before or after entering the country. Those that choose to live here illegally and hide out should be departed and their children should also be considered illegal immigrants, regardless of where they were born.

Did anyone actually LOOK at the picture of the trash? I live in Tucson and Janesville depending on the weather. Just outside of Tucson there are places that have signs “do not enter” the sign then goes on to explain about the illegal drug trafficking etc. The TRASH left behind is enormous and there are volunteers that go out with dumpsters two or three times a year to clean up the desert. They HAVE to go with armed border patrol of the sheriff to even think about being safe.

It is not just people looking for a better life, and there are many ways to enter this country legally. Close the borders close the loopholes that allow this to happen. Did anyone think about the illegal social security card? That card came from a number that either was or is active. THAT means that somewhere is a person that has to jump through hoops to maintain their own identity.

To put it mildly, this article is BS. The “feel good warm fuzzy” part needs to be taken out and replaced with some hard facts. WE ALL want a better life, but most want to it the correct way, the LEGAL way. If I blow a stop sign I get a ticket and have to pay, I did something illegal and have to pay my fine, why is the concept so hard to understand when it come to illegal’s in this country?

These stories are great. The nasty, negative reactions are disgusting.

It is pretty obvious that no matter what gets said on this issue we can’t agree on what to do about it. Now having said that I would like to ask all those who say we should feel sorry for them this question and I just know someone will whine about what I am asking. What do those who feel sorry for these people expect the rest of us to do? Keep throwing money away at open the door and say here and say this is no longer America. After 9/11 after all our wars we fought after all the money we put into rebuilding Europe and Japan after WWII. What I am getting is we should open our border up and have us say free money and free hand outs and free jobs which illegal immigrants should have no right to in the first place. You know I feel like there is nothing we can do about illegal immigration because of all the countries in the world we rank dead last when it comes to illegal immigration. To those that have served our country is probably asking why we defend a country that gives everything in this country away to everyone else? If people want a better life in their countries then it starts with reforming their governments and their financial systems and takning better care of their citizens better. We can’t keep throwing money away at this it cost us $113 billion dollars a year to fight illegal immigration that is a pretty high price to pay in a time of financial uncertainty for this nation. So I would like to see everyone to ask can we afford that kind of money? What can we do about it that we all can agree on there has to be a better way to deal with illegal immigration. And please stay on topic this is about illegal immigration and no other issue.

DEAR GAZETTE....please keep printing this series. It's nice to see society is together on some things!

Alot of the money they make here goes back to Mexico. How is that helping our economy? I'm sick of all their sob stories, we all have problems. The money it cost to deport them will be money well spent.

Mine the border. We are being invaded, and it's time to start fighting back.

Maybe they should deport the people that hire the illegals. That would stop the hiring.

@ Imjustsayin......."I'm just paraphrasing what's on the plague underneath the Statue of Liberty..."
you said it. Plague.

I can not feel sorry for any one that dose not obey the law
No matter what that law would be

Call it what you want its still illegal! Plus these people drive the average wage down because they dont pay taxes. This is why so many communities are running in the red and so many employers think they can pay poverty wages. Its time to close our borders before we all pay a price we cant afford!

Hence the term ILLEGAL. You are criminals.

"We are humans, but the government treats us like we are criminals."

They are criminals. They steal the livelihoods of American citizens and legal residents. That is why we have immigration laws.

@ Koch bros... thanks, but we don't need 'phony issues' dems and unions provide us with plenty of real ones..(r u as angry, bitter and mean as you come off here?) illegal immigration, as we should all realize, is a problem BOTH parties have allowed to continue. @ Just sayin' The message on the statue of Liberty was for those entering LEGALLY - that's why its on the STATUE OF LIBERTY IN New York Harbor.. not nailed to a cactus in the desert!

Just curious when the tear jerking stories from victims of illegal alien criminals will be on your front page?

Why are illegals the topic in WI again? Surely Ron Johnson isn't up for re-election yet. Oh well I can play along, time to put up electric fences at the Pictured Rocks. Ha ha. Beautiful.

I always wanted to go down to Mexico not by the Border but deeper , always thaught it be nice to retire to Mexico . Find a Pretty Senorita .

I just love how the Gazette keeps throwing fresh meat for the Patriots. Beautiful. Now they'll be seeing illegals around ever tree in Wisconsin. It won't be safe to go in the woods, not that it ever was for some people.
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Somehow we can tie this issue into teacher unions, can't we? hmmm. Give it some thought oh vigilant Minutemen.

bartlebee, I'm not sure what value a comment has when you can substitute a few words to create an opposing comment that is just as true as the original comment. "Large numbers of Americans from all categories are happy to take advantage of the labor provided by illegal immigration. This includes Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Black Americans, White Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asian Americans."

@Koch_Bros: Large numbers of Americans from all categories are sick and tired of illegal immigration. This includes Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Black Americans, White Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asian Americans.

While I feel for the illegal immigrants, I would like to point out that the deportees were allowed to appeal- it seems odd that they cannot communicate a basic need yet can file an appeal? Most citizens are not that legal savvy.
This type of mollycoddling illegal immigrants causes a racial grift. International students at UW-Madison must follow all types of rules and spend thousands of dollars to fly home and apply for student paperwork. Legal immigration can be done, and I have seen it done by students from Kuwait, Korea, China, Gambia, the UK, and UAE to name a few.
It is the predatory coyotes and porous border that creates this issue. We have a nation of entitlements next to nations where people do hard labor for a few cents a day.

It is a very dramatic story. Basically, people who are criminals do much the same thing. If they have a third to fifth grade education, it becomes much more difficult, and in fact, if we provide amnesty for the illegal aliens this story wants to help, the cost will take your breath away. Please notice they are not condemning Mexico here.. they are condemning me because I oppose any such thing as amnesty. Four sites to go visit before you decide.

Cost of amnesty for illegal aliens... 2.6 trillion.
http://www.heritage.org/research/immigra...

Cost of deporting... $94 billion.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09...

The right way to mend immigration
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Comprehensive Immigration and Enforcement Reform.
http://nafbpo.org/editorial-cier.html

ALLin: I don't mind discussing issues. But I dislike partisan rants. Immigration is a tough issue, but maybe after the November election there may be a common ground found about what to do, in a humane way. I do agree that illegal immigration is wrong, and it's a world wide problem. Just I haven't heard a good solution as yet.

They have good food.............leave them alone as long as they feed us Burritos Tippicos for a reasonable price. Better than what we get from the Middle Eastern countries......which is mainly death for no good reason and high gas prices. What? Hey, don't complain about that when the vast majority of American consumable products are delivered by the most energy-consuming system of delivery known to man..........the SEMI.

Intuitive Illegal Immigration 101 http://bit.ly/fVo2Tz

baegucb - thanks for the link. I was surprised at the facts it presented.

My daddy always treated the illegal workers well, fed them every day, gave them a half day off every month, and hid them when the sheriff came around. I think the illegals got it made here, and they helped us make more money than you can imagine.

Allin: Obama is deporting more illegal aliens than George Bush. Stop listening to Rush and Fox. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/2...

The Native Americans, the English, the French, the Spanish (from Spain), the Freed Blacks (in the north too), the Germans, the Irish, the Women, the Japanese, the Jews, the Russians, the Drugs, the Mexicans...Hope I'm not next.

sigma- cable hooked mine up sent a bill for the hook up and never sent another bill to me. It finally went out 4 years later but I did NOT call them up to reconnect. I picked a new provider. So you get found out you go back home.

Want a better country? Start respecting laws. I hope this story goes into detail the burden of illegal immigrants have on the United States cities, schools, jails, prisons, hospitals, etc...Has anyone ever tried butting in line at Wal-Mart, Woodman's, or anywhere?? What happens...someone who has the right lets you have it...Get to the back of the line buddy!! Follow the laws and you will have a better country.

She should be happy, got busted but is still here. A night in jail, boo hoo.

All illegal aliens should stop by ImJustSayin's house for a group hug.

Screw 'em. It's against the law. Obviously the penalty is not harsh enough. Let's give them the death penalty like some other countries. We are slowly killing our own people by allowing illegals to come here, live off our tax dollars and take our jobs. This story is another example of the Gazette trying to stir the pot within the community. Since GM isn't here at least for now, let's just publish a different story that'll get the natives restless.

Instead of spending a few dollars to enforce illegal alien laws, the Obama machine prefers to spend hundreds of billions of dollars in unemployment because of the jobs stolen by illegals - this will be his legacy.

They are not arrested and deported so they can vote fraudulently for the democrats. Voter ID would help prevent this from happening.

For the record, I have no problem with anyone legally becomming a citizen. I know many fine people who have done so, including those from Mexico, as well as Great Britain, Albania, Germany, Russian, Ukraine, and Brasil. I say do it legally, or face the consequences (you get a Social Security card and the rest of us pay for it while you get paid under the table and pay no taxes).

"I see the patriots just can't get enough raw meat. WI can be like Alabama there too"
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So, people who live in Alabama are less intelligent than who??? YOU??? Care to mention any other people you look down your nose at? The truth comes out in the most subtle of ways, sometimes, does it not?
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What's next? Are you going to start railing about trailer park people?? And then what's next after that??? Are you going to start railing about someone, like Republicans, who want to take away those foodstamps (not that they do, I just want to show the hypocrisy of ignorance, and display it)???

Ana and Marta both have been here approx. 10 years. One has chosen to learn the language, the other has not. I am in dialysis 3 days a week-We have 3 Hispanic patients on my shift, none who speak English. There use to one interpreter for each one-now they have one for all 3. Please, if you're going to come here, learn our language. They are all hard working,good parents and nice people just trying to have a better life. I don't blame them for that but I wish we had a better way for them to do it.

I don't care who you are, if you're willing to risk your life to come here to try and improve your life, and the lives of your family, then I welcome you with open arms.
I'm just paraphrasing what's on the plague underneath the Statue of Liberty...

SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT ... If you cross the North Korean border illegally, you get 12 yrs. hard labor. If you cross the Afghanistan border illegally, you get shot. Two Americans just got eight years for crossing the Iranian border. If you cross the U. S. border illegally you get a job, a driver’s license, food stamps, a place to live, health care, housing & child benefits, education, & a tax free business for 7 yrs. The problem is the country is too weak to enforce our own immigration laws and many people slip through the cracks and are never caught and we play that most American of games which is called catch them. It cost American tax payers $113 billion a year to fight illegal immigration it’s the money we spend on illegal immigration every year and that is what I am upset about and the inaction of our own government to have a solution that makes sense. We need tougher laws on immigration to stop illegals from coming here. You come here illegal you better know the rules or don’t come here.

What part of ILLEGAL and I not getting here?

Marta says, "If I had known this would happen, I would have never come to this country," she said. "How can we be treated like this? It is very inhuman." I'm sorry but she must have known or at the very least, she must have known what she was doing is wrong otherwise why did she worry everyday? And her comment, " I never knew there were so many injustices in this country" Of course there are injustices, just like there are laws. If you don't want to be treated like a criminal, then don't be a criminal. There are legal ways to go about this, they choose not to follow the laws.

Best of luck Ana.

There must be some part of 'illegal' that the authorities don't understand Miss Scarlett.

Also, if I was obtained and used a fake SS#, I wonder just how long I'd last. Huh.

I see the patriots just can't get enough raw meat. WI can be like Alabama there too

Ok, they are so poor, but (shazam!), can just pull $2,000.00 out of thin air to pay a coyote. I work full time and don't have that kind of money in my bank account on most days. Why don't they use that money towards legal citizenship? I don't get it.

my oh my - why aren't all these illegals arrested? If they were drug dealers or bank robbers they wouldn't just 'count them' and pamper them.

I also dont understand these people in the pics... claim they came to the USA years ago but only recently became a citizen. Breaking the law and admitting it and we are supposed to think positive? Thats like saying ive been getting cable TV for 15 years but only started paying for it recently. Or been using a gym for 10 years and just started paying this year.
A crook is a crook. What else are they doing illegal?

Why dont they make Mexico a better place? If they cant fix their own country up why would we want them here? We've been in the USA for just over 200 years and look what we made of it. How long have Mexicans been in Mexico and they still have a dump? We could have spent the money we did liberating Iraq and jut bought Mexico. Turn it into a state.... that would solve all problems.

Immigration! ach! Minutemen to the rescue.

Wait - that was our GOP Trojan Horse issue for Johnson. Now it's on to public workers! Ach! Minutement to the rescue.

but it's good to have a fall back phony issue to rile up the Patriots.

This series seems to be openning the eyes of many local citizens. I had no idea how many illegal people are in our community, taking our jobs and using our resources. It brings to light the severe lack of enforcement of the law, which is disgusting. I guess some laws are deemed OK to break.

Another article that seems to be mostly sympathetic to illegal immigrants. My heart truly goes out to these people. It truly does.
But we really need to focus on the underlying problem. It's not that the US somehow discriminates against illegals. They make the choice to break the law when they come here. They are the cause of their own problems. Even as an illegal - it is either a better life here, or it is not. If it's a better life, rejoice in your good fortune. If it's not a better life, return to your country of origin. To come here illegally and then complain that you're always looking over your shoulder is nonsensical.