Tick tock yada mouse brotherskoch pick one - pay time is coming

Yeah, well said, if you enjoy blowing away a straw man argument. free healthcare and pension for life... give me a break. Labor versus Capital has always been a balancing act. If you believe that labor has the upper hand in today's business environment and that more needs to be done to protect capital...then you must live a sheltered life in gated communities.

Wel said Dorsai - The sooner both parties put down their Cliff notes book "Blind Party Following Strategies for Dummies", the sooner we can get down to business and our leaders will get it that we will not take it anymore.
We all keep talking about tax, spending reform but what we really need is Washington Reform! Lets get some term limits so these folks that are representing us are doing it because they want to and not because its the best gig in the land! Free healthcare and pension for life, who wouldn't want this?

Dorsai, excellent addition to my post, thank you, well said.

Never knew there was a 3000 word limit:

Right now, we need to be demanding that the politicians stop the games and deal with the real issues: Deficit spending as far as the eye can see and a debt that is already more than $16 trillion. The claim by Obama – and bought into by the Republicans – that we can’t balance the federal budget without raising taxes is nonsense. Stop the wars, have a serious debate about Medicare and other entitlements, stop sending borrowed dollars to other countries, and spending can absolutely be brought into line with revenues – without raising taxes on anybody, rich or poor.

The politicians in the White House and Congress won’t tell the truth, so we must!

Thank you,
Governor Gary Johnson

I don't normally post links or others words but I came across this earlier and thought it was spot on, enjoy:

Friends,

Have you been watching the insanity in Washington about the so-called Fiscal Cliff?

If so, you are seeing the same thing I am: It is all a concoction by the status quo politicians to distract us from the REAL cliff we are headed for.

To listen to the politicians in both parties, you would believe this is all about taxes. Somehow, the nation is approaching financial calamity because the government isn’t getting enough of our money. And the two “sides” have managed to create the illusion that the debate is over how to best increase “revenues”. (In Washington, of course, increasing revenue means turning more of our dollars into THEIR dollars.)

Here is how the charade is playing out: President Obama is demanding that the so-called Bush tax cuts be allowed to expire for what he calls the wealthy to produce $800 billion in more “revenue” for the government. In what only a politician could call a negotiation, the Republican Speaker of the House has countered with an offer to – you guessed it – raise revenues (taxes) by $800 billion.

If this wasn’t so serious, it would be laughable.

The only difference between the two “sides” is what they want to call their plan for the government to suck almost another trillion dollars out of the private economy to finance their wars, their take-over of our health care, and the never-ending erosions of our freedom.

Obama wants to call this money-grab a “rate increase” for the wealthy. Speaker Boehner wants to call it “closing loopholes”. I’m not seeing the difference. The money all ends up coming from the same place. Ask a school teacher or a construction worker how many “loopholes” they used last year to reduce their tax bill.

So why are the grown men and women in Washington playing this ridiculous parlor game? It’s simple. They don’t want to talk about the real problem: Government is too big and does too much – and therefore spends too much. And they certainly don’t want to talk about REAL tax reform, such as scrapping the income tax altogether and replacing it with a consumption tax. Without their spending and their loopholes and complex rates, the politicians would lose the opportunity to pass out favors to their friends – and that is not something they want to give up, even at the cost of destroying the economy.

If we are able to start manufacturing again in our country instead of outsourcing everything is how we can grow the economy. I agree we are pretty much land locked but if we can make changes to the trade agreements that makes it fair for all involved, we can start getting some of the manufacturing back to the united states. We are starting to see little by little, some of it coming back because the Chineese are getting greedy because their economy has grown so fast that their labor is fighting back as well. This could benifit us in that way. It won't be over night but at the same time we can slowly start actually making things in our own country and put our people to work. Greed from all involved in a company is what will eventually destroy it.

Yeah, I believe this nation's financial heydays are over. We've already had our main economic expansion period, that China is enjoying now. We've manifested our destiny for the most part -unless we conquer new territory.

We can't "grow" our way to prosperity any more than we can tax and spend our way there. In theory, we have the same restraints as the rest of the world - set borders and limited resources. It will still be pretty good to be an American in most financial respects-it just has to be sustainable, and some sharing is necessary to reach that sustainability.

At some point as individuals and as a nation, we have to realize - money doesn't grow on trees.

There are growth areas in the economy, (energy) but there will have to be decline in big ones our economy is tied to,such as brain-dead consumerism (hence-personal debt), govt spending (which includes military).

Sure, aspects of globalism factor in the economy. Yet, subbing out labor intensive work and environmentally unfriendly industry to desparate/poorer nations has it's limits in helping the US economy.

I am a fan of gradually addressing our economic woes via tax increases where affordable, and spending cuts where feasible. Starving the beast, to fix it is a dumb idea. Rife with unforeseen consequences. Let the air out gradually. A simple quick first step is to increase marginal tax rates on those that can afford to pay more.

Yada, and dems are great? They rename everything with relativism mush and illogical ways.

Yada - How about you put down your Cliff notes book and join the rest of the group in some actual meaningful discussion. Anyone can point the blame finger and insult! What do you think needs to happen? And don't recite what the politicians are preaching. If you were boss, how would you fix it?

I definately see your point brotherkoch, but once they figure out a way to change the tax codes to have them spend money in the economy instead of just taking it, I would really like to see it go that direction. That gets people working again and if they have money they will be spending it in the economy and the government gets their piece of the pie that route. In the mean time I do agee but they also need to get fast and now results with their spending habbits. Without that changing, sad but I think its already game over.

This country spends like Europe and taxes like the US. This is really ignorant! We cannot sustain the spending without the taxes. So let's stop spending so much and start taxing to bring a balanced budget. We need to tax like our property taxes are computed, that would end this BS.

I guess the the Truth really Hurts the Republicans.

"Republicans are Crazy, But That's Pretty Normal"

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/20...

BOWLGAL - The multiple Name stuff - Try to get it on the TV show Conspiracy Theory. That is so funny.

I don't disagree truth#. But in the meantime, raise the the tax rates to get started. Which deduction to cut and reforming tax code isn't going to happen like Christmas. Afterall, these are the same jokers that created the tax code.

And even Reagan's economic guru, David Stockman, says the tax breaks on investment income -primarily capital gains, and dividends - are a mistake. There are numerous articles where he talks about this. The logic of taxing capital gains at lower rates than other earnings was not to "spur investment" but a fairness measure for gains due to inflation.

The rationale for taxing capital gains lower now is not existent. (some exemptions for small business, and farms nonwithstanding.)

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/84454808-...

Finally, conversations with sustenance!
Something I'd like to see happen is instead of just taking money away from the rich to give to government because lets face it, they couldn't keep a Kool Aid stand open for a day without having to print more money. Lets rewrite the tax codes to force the rich to start spending/investing their money on companies, expanding their current ones and hiring new employees. I know this is pretty vague, but I'd be willing to bet we could find some pretty smart tax people that could come up with some pretty ingenious ideas to get the rich to spend their money into the economy. Just taking it will only make Washington think they can spend more and that also isn't the answer!

The quickest, simplest and safest start to addressing the fiscal cliff and deficit issues is by increasing rates on the wealthy. It is only a start. But it's the one given thing that needs to be done.

Congress plan is all non-specifics put forth just for show.

They know that in a month's time they can't decide whether the deduction cuts are going to fall, (capping mortgage interest, charity, state/local tax deductions) or whether to get rid of the EPA, DOE, raise medicare/social security eligibities. It is impossible to implement such changes in a month. Everybody knows it.

I hate to admit it, but Obama pushing for the tax rate increases on the wealthy has to be the start. Again, it is only the start.

At least Bowlgal recognizes the strategy of the GOP (it is not hidden) which is to bankrupt and wreck government first, and then supposedly institute reforms. Supposedly the magic of the markets and trickle-down economics will pay for it all. Hasn't worked. Ever.

It takes a gigantic Patriotic leap of faith to believe in this strategy and the reformers. After-all, they have helped grow government for decades, lowered taxes on the wealthy to historic lows and mitigated the deficit problems by engaging in costly wars.

All this big money put into buying Congress...what sort of fool believes the billionaires that are buying Congress are doing so for the good of the country? Answer - Patriotic fools.

Today both Obama and Boehner were on TV talking to us about the fiscal cliff. WHY are thet talking to us instead of Each Other???

The Bush tax cuts were never meant to be permanent, so it is not raising taxes. It is simply letting tax breaks expire as they were meant to. Congress say we can't afford healthcare for the poor but yet we can afford to give millioares tax cuts at an even higher cost. "Even high estimates for an early draft of the health care plan are "less than the $1.8 trillion cost of the Bush tax cuts."
Even the Heritage foundation agrees with this statement. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

For Republicans or Democrats to insist on not raising taxes on income above $250K is a complete conflict of interest. 66% of the Senate are millionaires and 45% of the House are millionaires..yes both Republican and Democratic millionaires. I think we all need to ask, "Who are they really representing?"

And mouse,brotherskoch,yada. I hope you decide which name you will keep once you get charged for web use.

brotherkoch
Dec 5, 2012 at 10:31 a.m.

The Fiscal Cliff was promoted by the GOP

Tax and spend Democrats, emphasis on the word SPEND. We don't have a tax or revenue problem. Obama (federal government) took in the most money in our nations history, yet he still managed to add 6 trillion to the debt.

If you don't cut the credit cards, how will taxes help a hungry beast.

Setinmyways , truth and Sigma... welcome to the club. It is nice to see others that see things for what they are.

Yes, the same people that created this mess (BOTH political parties-including rebranded versions) are attempting to clean it up. And that is a problem.

Sigma - You absolutely Nailed It! Sad but you made me chuckle a little! Just waiting to see someone throw a chair or kick through a door! Not really funny but a very good comparison!

Funny how the political party that refused to pass a national budget, for the last three years, are the same ones claiming they want to be responsible...actions speak louder than empty rhetoric.

Setinmyways - You nailed it right on the head! Unfortunately your wasting your time with some on here because both sides are using their Cliff notes book "Blind Party Following Strategies for Dummies"! I commented on the "10 things about today", yesterday and said what my beliefs were which don't lock me into any one political party and I was called a liar by Yada and Mouse had nothing but one liner insults and wanted nothing to do with talking about what us American's need to do to fix the problem. The right side is just as bad, wanting to blame Obama and the Democrats for everything too!
Look folks, our country has been mismanaged for about as long as I can remember and I'm just over 40. Both parties are in it for power and money for their own party. Their tactics are get us, the little people to argue amoungst ourselves to blame the other side so they can continue on with business as usual. Neither side has a real plan or at least a long term plan. Neither side has one because a real plan that is fiscally responsible for our country would be extremely unpopular with American's! All I read on here is both sides are sick of the other side in Washington not compromising or having a plan but at the same time, most on this site are unwilling to discuss the issues but would rather follow what Washington is doing and point the finger. Some of you please click on your user name and go back and read a couple dozen of your posts and look at them as an outsider who has to decipher if this person is level headed, knows what they are talking about and could work with others that have different beliefs or are they just a pissed off little kid that if everyone doesn't believe what they do, just insult them and/or blame someone else. I think a lot of attitudes would change if some of you had to read your posts out loud to your family or in front of your co-workers and explain what you posted.
When does the blame game stop and we get down to business? When????

If our country is so divided by the 2 parties constantly opposing each other...how can they run a country when they cant even work together? We run the country like the TV show "American Chopper".....its one big drama fest.

GA
I did not say they were not newsworthy, I said the stories are not on my top 10. Everyone will have their own ideas of what is most important, make your own list.

setinmyways, while i agree with our point, it is a pipe dream the two parties are working together in keeping their power and not allowing anyone with actual ideas and ability to fix things to get any part of that power. The fools that blindly follow one party over the other just enable the clowns at the top.

setinmyways
It would help greatly if the potus would lead by example, instead of demonizing one party.

janesvillean, yes but it has to be reasonable within what the market will bear. Pretty simple and these guys are being paid and compensated far and above anyone else doing the same work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_...

The Fiscal Cliff was promoted by the GOP -reduce taxes to the point where the govt is broke and without power. Yet, the Starving of the Beast hasn't quite worked out for the GOP - because of the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts and Obama having the hammer.

WisLady, it is NOT Obama's fiscal cliff! IT IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA's fiscal cliff. Your comment is an example of what is wrong with this country. It should not be repub vs dems, it should be lets work together for this country of ours and do what is best and right for it. Political infighting is the problem.

Granted that all of us have contributed to this fiscal mess, mostly by allowing over spending to occur.

garyprimer
Reminder....democrats have been in control for almost 6 years. It is Obama's fiscal cliff.

Eagle1, demanding a higher price is pure and simple capitalism.

So the people in #4 finally figured out 190,000 a year salary, full benefits, 11 weeks of vacation and a fully vested pension after 10 years is about as good as you can get for basic clerical work. I have been following this story if you want to see the ultimate in an entitlement attitude read the details of what these folks earn and get in benefits and then look at what they wanted. In all fairness a big part of their reason for striking was so eliminate the port from hiring foreign companies, however looking at what these folks have been getting I think they could have been a bit more reasonable in their tactics.

The Republican Fiscal cliff is a big concern.
The House Republicans have admitted that they are nowhere.
They need to get somewhere fast and I don't think that home for Christmas
to greet their middle class constituents is where they want to be.

My list of 10 concerns for the day is quite different than the AP list. Obama's fiscal cliff is one of the top ten, though.

I can only hope they cut the 300 billion from the military.....they seem to have bottomless unmanaged pockets.

Remember this is the Associated Press telling you this. As though they are the only purveyors of news & truth in the country.