Frustrated by lack of qualified candidates, business starts grow-your-own internship
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Mike Trumpy makes welds on while working at United Alloy. United Alloy has had trouble finding qualified welders to help its growth. Trumpy has worked for United Alloy since shortly after his spring, 2011 graduation from BTC.
JANESVILLE — New business is expected to propel United Alloy to more years of record-setting revenues.
But Terri Roessler, chief executive officer of the manufacturer of diesel fuel tanks, generator frames and other heavy metal fabrications, is frustrated with her company’s inability to hire qualified welders to fuel the anticipated growth.
“Fifty percent of my time in the last seven months has been spent on this,” Roessler said.
She lays some of the blame on the state education system, which she said does not put enough emphasis on technical education.
Some economists counter, however, that companies such as United Alloy might need to pay more to lure the workers they need.
United Alloy is trying to grow its own welders.
Earlier this year, the company set up an internship program for high school and technical school students interested in welding.
Initially, no one applied.
Eventually, four people signed up, but none of them—two from Blackhawk Technical College and two from Janesville high schools—could pass the basic math and blueprint reading tests.
One of United Alloy’s tests involves measuring a piece of steel and using a caliper to determine the size of a hole.
“Today’s manufacturing requires a large set of technical skills, but we can’t get people to pass the basic skills test,” Roessler said. “It’s so basic, it’s almost laughable.
“It’s really disheartening.”
Roessler is encouraged that United Alloy’s internship program now has four qualified candidates who will start this week.
The interns will work 16 hours a week at $11 per hour. At the end of the 90-day program, interns who want to stay will get a pay hike to $13 per hour. Roessler said that upon graduation, they would be virtually guaranteed a job at United at a higher pay rate.
Roessler and United Alloy are desperate. The company needs 10 welders now and estimates it will need 10 more by the end of the year.
“I have the capacity and machines, I just need the people,” she said.
The company has a standing offer to pay any of its 120 employees $3,000 for the referral of a welder who joins the company.
‘Most basic of tests’
BlueScope Buildings North America needs welders at its Evansville facility, too.
With several global brands and 25 manufacturing plants around the world, BlueScope is the largest manufacturer of engineered buildings in the world.
In Evansville, the company is considering a third shift, said Joe La Mothe, human resources manager at the plant that employs about 250 people.
“We’ve had the same sort of hiring problems,” La Mothe said. “Many people just can’t pass our most basic of tests.”
United Alloy and BlueScope require their welders to meet strict industry certifications that keep the companies competitive in the tank and building markets. Both have hired Blackhawk graduates.
“They’re great people that we’d like to clone,” La Mothe said. “My only gripe with BTC is, ‘Give me more.’
“The problem is with people coming from other companies and sources who just can’t pass the tests. Many of them don’t know beans about welding. What may be good enough where they are is not good enough for us.”
Improving business, a possible third shift and an aging workforce combine to elevate BlueScope’s need for welders, La Mothe said.
“It’s hard enough to get welders but even harder to get them for the third shift,” he said.
Help from the state?
In late June, Roessler expressed her frustration to Gov. Scott Walker.
“With all due respect, I believe that the current system has some significant gaps,” she wrote in a letter.
Part of the problem, Roessler believes, is that the state’s Department of Workforce Development and Department of Public Instruction are not doing enough to help industries that say jobs are going unfilled because qualified candidates can’t be found.
Roessler believes the state’s K-12 education system is too focused on preparing kids for four-year college degrees and is paying insufficient attention to technical education and the careers it supports.
“DPI and DWD aren’t talking to each other, and nobody is doing much more than pointing the finger at someone else,” she said. “Some people act as if this just came up.
“I’ve been here nine years and nothing has changed.”
She’s also unhappy with Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce, the state’s largest business association. The group recently held 50 listening sessions with more than 300 manufacturers around the state to discuss the skills gap.
“WMC has just identified this as a problem,” said Roessler, who attended the local program in June. “Their solution is that manufacturers must take the entire responsibility to train their own pool.”
Roessler said she’s gone above and beyond in her efforts to recruit and train qualified employees. She’s a frequent visitor to Blackhawk’s welding classes.
“We pay an awful lot in taxes, and I think there are some basic responsibilities the state is not meeting,” she said. “My solution would be to get rid of DWD, give that money to employers for training and then force DPI to be accountable for what they’re turning out.”
Jonathan Barry, the DWD’s deputy secretary, wouldn’t go that far, but he acknowledged his agency is more focused on dislocated workers, benefits and retraining programs than addressing future workforce issues.
During a visit to Janesville last week, Barry said young children and their parents must get the message that technical schools are a pathway to successful careers, not an ugly step-sister to four-year colleges and universities.
In the next 10 years, he said, Wisconsin employers will need to fill more than 900,000 jobs, primarily because of attrition and new growth.
“Sixty percent to 70 percent of those jobs will require some education beyond high school, while only 30 percent will require a baccalaureate degree,” he said. “We all bought into the paradigm that everyone needs a four-year degree. We need to rethink how we educate, particularly when it comes to career choices.”
Growing program
For its part, Blackhawk is pumping out welding graduates as fast as it can, said Sharon Kennedy, the school’s vice president of learning.
The technical college turns out 40 welders a year and recently announced plans to increase that by 50 percent with the upcoming academic year.
Historically, classes have been full, and there’s been a waiting list.
The programming increase is in direct response to both student and industry demand, she said.
“Students are starting to recognize that there are a lot of good jobs out there,” she said.
Kennedy understands employers would like welding graduates sooner rather than later. Teaching students to exacting industry standards, however, requires a yearlong program, she said.
She also understands frustrations over basic skill levels, which she said are functions of older students returning to school and lacking previous training.
“Many don’t know how to read a tape measure because they never had to before,” she said. “The average age of our students is 31, so some of them have been out of school a long time and needed refreshers and remediation in some basic areas.”
Kennedy has been at Blackhawk for five years. For each of her first three, she had welding teachers tell her they spent the first half of the first semester teaching shop math.
“They shouldn’t be teaching shop math,” she said. “They need to be teaching welding techniques. When it’s necessary, we embed a math teacher in the class to handle that.”
Change in pay
United Alloy is reaching the point where it can’t wait any longer for fundamental system changes or for graduates of one- or two-year programs.
“We need these people now,” Roessler said. “At our last job fair, we got 200 applications. Ten were screenable, one was viable and none were hireable.”
If it’s unable to recruit new talent, the company likely will consider changes to its wage and benefit package, which Roessler believes is already near the top of the local market.
When Stoughton Trailers announced last year that it was expanding its operations in southern Wisconsin, United Alloy immediately bumped the salaries of its welders in an effort to retain them.
United Alloy is advertising starting pay of between $14.50 and $18 per hour for second- and third-shift welders.
BlueScope, which is closer to the Madison market, starts welders on its second shift at nearly $17 per hour.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median hourly wage of welders in the Janesville area is $17.83, about 40 cents an hour less than the national median.
Some economists have argued that employers are not struggling because of a skills gap. Instead, they say, the employers are not filling positions because of pay gaps.
That argument is built on the basic economic principle that high demand should result in higher prices, or in this case, higher wages.
But Roessler and other employers counter that higher skill sets need to be in place in order to command higher wages.
Still, higher wages at United Alloy are a possibility, she said.
“Last year was a record in terms of revenues and profits, and this year will be, too,” Roessler said. “We’re in a great position, and we have some latitude for incentives because of our financial situation.
“If we can’t get anyone from the temp agencies, and we can’t get anyone from BTC, we will have to look at pay and benefits and try to lure from other welders.”
Changing times in employment need change in message in the schools
More students would stay in high school and local manufacturers would have a better pool of prospective employees if area school districts introduced students to the values of technical education at a younger age, a Blackhawk Technical College vice president said.
“We need to do a much better job in the middle schools. I happen to think we’d have lower dropout rates if there was more of a technical/career emphasis at that age,” said Sharon Kennedy, vice president of learning at Blackhawk Technical College.
“We’ve got to change the message that technical school is less rigorous, that it’s the place for people who are not as cognitively successful as others,” she said.
Jim Morgan, president of the WMC Foundation, agrees that educators, parents and the media still cling to the misguided notion that manufacturing is dirty, dark and dangerous.
WMC Foundation recently conducted statewide listening sessions on the so-called skills gap.
“What seems to be missing in the current system is a broad understanding by today’s students of the jobs available,” Morgan wrote in a recent WMC column. “They simply cannot select an occupation that they don’t know exists.”
Today’s students, he said, don’t know what a welder or CNC operator does. They’ve never seen the inside of a modern-day, advanced manufacturing facility, and they don’t have accurate job data and salary information, he said.
Morgan said he understands the frustrations of Wisconsin manufacturers who say they can’t get the qualified employees they need to climb out of the economic downturn.
Employers, however, must shoulder part of the burden for talking up a changing manufacturing sector that offers plenty of family-supporting jobs, Morgan said.
‘A full understanding’
Morgan said 30 percent of the future jobs in Wisconsin would require a bachelor’s degree, which means 70 percent will not. Of the latter, the vast majority will require technical education beyond high school.
“If every 16-year-old and their parents have all of this information and a full understanding and open mind to all occupations available, we will work through this shortage,” he said.
Morgan said that requires a different definition of success, perhaps one in which children are healthy and happy, doing something they love and living comfortably.
The age-old definition, at least in terms of education, is that a master’s degree is better than a bachelor’s degree, which is better than a technical degree, which is better than work experience, he said.
“The workplace is not that linear and easily defined,” Morgan said. “Right now, there are shortages of engineers, welders, CNC operators, machinists and masons. Some of those require work experience, some apprenticeships, some technical degrees, some four-year degrees or more.
“Let’s make sure everyone knows the market, because the market will drive us to success.”
‘More interaction’
A recent survey of 2,500 Rock County high school students shows only a handful had an interest in a career in manufacturing.
Rock County 5.0, in collaboration with a subcommittee of the Leadership Development Academy and the Stateline Career and Technical Education Academy, conducted the survey to learn how students form career aspirations, what those aspirations are and whether the students plan to go on to school, enter the military or join the workforce.
More than 2,500 students responded to the survey, which found:
- Sixty percent plan to go to a four-year college or university, while 19 percent plan to pursue a technical or associate degree.
- Of those thinking about technical careers, just 2.1 percent indicated an interest in manufacturing.
- The majority of kids start thinking about careers in middle school.
- Most want more information on careers.
- Seventy percent said they had no exposure to a class, program, internship or co-op program that would prepare them for their chosen career field.
James Otterstein, Rock County’s economic development director, said the survey results will not gather dust. Instead, they will be used to marry the common interests of education and industry.
“The idea is to match career information to what’s actually happening in the marketplace,” he said. “I think one thing that comes through loud and clear is that there’s a definite need for career counselors that match skill sets with interests and the market.”
“We need more interaction between the business community and education, and we’re not talking about one-day job fairs.”
Later this week, local manufacturer United Alloy will launch an internship for local welding students.
Sep 4, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.
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Companies complain about the inability to find trained workers. They complained about high taxes and killed the Technical High Schools (e.g. Boys Tech in Milwaukee). They did away with apprenticeship programs and choose to steal workers from other companies. Now that those trained in those previous programs are going away, companies cry that it is all somebody elses fault and they have to be bailed out. Who's to fault?
Aug 30, 2012 at 2:58 p.m.
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I would add that although MooShoo has correctly explained *how* to calculate a property’s assessed value for property tax purposes (the numbers stated aren’t quite correct), the property’s assessed value is not necessarily the same as its market value.
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A property is “worth” the amount a buyer is willing to pay and a seller is willing to accept, with both parties in possession of all relevant information and neither party under duress.
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This conveniently brings us back to the topic of what a worker’s time is worth.
Aug 29, 2012 at 11:38 p.m.
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Can anybody answer how much your house is worth if you pay $700/month ($8400/year) in property taxes?
Aug 29, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.
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The answer to that math problem may be true to a large extent right now but there is evidence that labor costs over seas are beginning to rise. As labor in emerging nations make gains a lot of companies will see that equation tip the other way. Shipping manufacturing off shore is not a forever thing I can assure you of that.
Aug 29, 2012 at 8:37 p.m.
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So eksreigh hard-working semi-skilled workers, or any workers in general, don't deserve to spend their money any way they want? What do they deserve to spend their money on? Please fill us in. Or should only company CEO's and white collar workers deserve to drive around big SUV's and watch huge tv's?? I'm just a hard working American that wants to know how I should spend my money.
Aug 29, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
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As CEO of United Alloy, one of Ms. Roessler’s duties is to maximize profits. If Janesville workers refuse to acknowledge that GM was forced to pay inflated wages to its blue collar workers, Ms. Roessler would be derelict in her duties if she did not explore her other options. This is the reality of a 21st century global economy. If United Alloy did pay its welders $25/hour, the company would no doubt have to increase the selling price of their products. That would open the door for a clever foreign competitor to realize he could build the products overseas and ship them here for less than the cost UA was forced to pay.
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You can argue that CEOs are overpaid, but they are the people whose job it is to make money for the company owners. The welders, technicians, engineers, and scientists who work at a company are only small cogs in the overall process.
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Some people seem to feel they deserve to own expensive SUVs and ultra-wide flat screen TVs, regardless of their employment status. I think it’s time to realize that the Janesville-GM economy was an anomaly. Companies simply cannot afford to pay big bucks to their semi-skilled workers, and the sooner we all realize that the sooner we can put the U.S. economy back together again.
Aug 29, 2012 at 6:13 a.m.
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"If Ms. Roessler conducts some research and determines that a Chinese welder will do excellent work for $3/hour and can easily live on $10/day, and building a factory in China will pay for itself in five years, how long will it take before she says the heck with you people in Rock County and moves her manufacturing operation overseas?"
First of all, we are not a 3rd world country nor do we want to become one. Second, if she or anyone else wants to betray their fellow man here in the United States, they can move their behinds to those 3rd world countries along with their businesses.
Aug 29, 2012 at 6:10 a.m.
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I pay aprx 340.00 a month for taxes and that is a bit much for me. If you are paying 700.00+ for a house then you are probably living a nice lifestyle or you are living way beyond your means. Unless of course you are living on a farm or have a business.
Aug 29, 2012 at 2:13 a.m.
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Math problem for MooShoo:
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If Ms. Roessler conducts some research and determines that a Chinese welder will do excellent work for $3/hour and can easily live on $10/day, and building a factory in China will pay for itself in five years, how long will it take before she says the heck with you people in Rock County and moves her manufacturing operation overseas?
Aug 28, 2012 at 8:51 p.m.
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Went by her place the other day and noticed the Koch Ind trucks lined up. It would be nice if she used the trucking firm next door instead of the Koch's.
Aug 28, 2012 at 6:59 p.m.
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Um...hello...A lot of us are close to $700 if not more. And we receive the SAME services for that tax bill!
Aug 28, 2012 at 6:29 p.m.
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dtb...$700 a month in property taxes really isn't that much for some. I personally know someone who pays $42K a year in property taxes, granted they live in a mansion on a 100 acre estate. My brother pays $12,500 a year on a 25 acre hobby farm. I will give you that's not the norm. I wonder what Diane Hendricks pays. It's public knowledge but I don't care enough to bother to find out.
Aug 28, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.
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Maine, who pays $700 per month in prop. taxes? Nobody I know.
Aug 28, 2012 at 1:53 p.m.
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There's a saying "You get what you pay for!"
Aug 28, 2012 at 11 a.m.
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I agree 100% with the Rosseler. Our schools no longer teach basic skills. I am older and when I was in school we had woodshop, welding etc... I went to college while some took these classes. At the time, I thought ,, why do they want to do these things, later in life I realized that they like making things with their hands, and they were darn good at it. Today -- many of those individuals, have their own businesses, manage manufacturing shops, designed practical products that people use. Did they start out at the highest wage -- no. But they developed a skill that they can use and have been able to weather the storm of the financial crisis. Performing work , services etc... They have survived where todays schools have failed to realize, that not everyone needs to make premium wages out of school and they need to develop a skill set.
Aug 28, 2012 at 9:41 a.m.
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TCB - They recieved both State and Federal money? Does anyone know how much they got?
Aug 28, 2012 at 9:18 a.m.
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maine,
How much should the CEO forfeit? And more importantly, if you were Queen-how much should welders earn? Should they earn a straight salary or an hourly wage? If so-how much?
Aug 28, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.
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walker,
Wisconsin tax payers or federal tax payers? Which program-specifically are you referring to?
Aug 28, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.
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walker,
Wisconsin tax payers or federal tax payers? Which program-specifically are you referring to?
Aug 28, 2012 at 9:11 a.m.
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Are you implying that corporations like welfare handouts too? Say it ain't so.
Aug 28, 2012 at 6:57 a.m.
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How much money did United Alloy get from the Wisconsin Taxpayers to help them build their recent addition?
Aug 28, 2012 at 6:56 a.m.
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They want to pay "global" wages that are in line with what is being paid in Beijing. If we had the same low cost of living as in China, that would work. If you want to pay lower wages, you will have to find a way to lower the cost of living (housing, healthcare, education). Lower wages are the reason why housing prices are declining, but property taxes, which average between $300 and $700 per month, are keeping home ownership unaffordable for most; hence the many foreclosures.
Aug 27, 2012 at 10:43 p.m.
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Lol!
Aug 27, 2012 at 9:49 p.m.
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This summer was a hot one. How do you think that welder feels under them thick welders clothes and helmut? $13.00 an hour?
Aug 27, 2012 at 9:42 p.m.
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The demand for more welders is growing, so you better start paying your welders more to retain them. Funny how many companies feel their employees are a dime a dozen.
Aug 27, 2012 at 9:40 p.m.
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What is laughable, is the fact Roessler thinks you get high quality welders for $13.00 an hour. That is laughable Honey!
Aug 27, 2012 at 8:43 p.m.
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First of all, we don't have "technical" education in high schools. We have "Technology" education. That being said technology education is NOT industrial arts. They don't train kids to be a welder, carpenter, draftsman, mechanic, etc... They use those mediums to teach and reinforce what is being taught in english, science, math, social studies, etc... hopefully in a manner and method that sparks an interest in that student group.
Second, Jv93 you said it perfectly -- you get what you pay for, and you expect to get what you pay for.
Also, the "kids" not being able to read a ruler or count out a dozen are few and far between. There is probably a reason they are looking for a job -- because they are either too dumb to find and keep a job, or were too lazy to work hard and apply themselves in school.
It's not the cellphones and ipads that are causing some of our kids to fall behind it's their parents coddling them. Kick them in the butt and get them moving.
Several of you hit on this earlier about America being behind other countries. Yes, our kids might be as a whole. But, we test everybody. EVERY SINGLE KID! Even the ones that have exceptional special needs. We aren't perfect by any means. Yet we still give everyone the option at a base education to get their life started. What they do after that is up to them. I would bet anything that when you compare apples to apples amongst education our kids can match up with anyone. Additionally, if our education system is so sorely lacking then why are there so many foreign students coming to our universities? Shouldn't that be opposite?
Finally, if you don't like what groups of people you are getting to apply at your company look inwards and figure out how you can change. Don't blame the government or the school system. You want to say you built the company yourself well take credit where credit is due and solve your problem yourself.
Aug 27, 2012 at 4:27 p.m.
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I understand United alloy's frustration. If our educational system is not in place to prepare people for careers, what is it for? Basic skills like "reading a tape measure" are very important in life. They are being pushed to the side by laptops, Ipads, and alot of other crap (yes crap) that will have very little effect on the day to day jobs of many in our future workforce. I give the company kudo's for not just complaining, but initiating their own program to help themselves.
Aug 27, 2012 at 3:22 p.m.
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jrp, well said you illustrated why I am not a republican they speak a good game but actions are just as destructive as the democrats, not much difference.
Aug 27, 2012 at 2:34 p.m.
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To: jrp
Excellent comment!
This article demonstrating how United Allow expects the government to train welders for them should be reproduced in an enlarged version onto posters and distributed to the socalled "laissez fairests." It takes HUGE government to provide them with all of their demands: military industrial complex, grants, subsidies, bailouts, U.S. patent/copyright legal services, courts, airports, etc.
Aug 27, 2012 at 2:04 p.m.
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I don't think any private business should expect the government to train their workers.
United Alloy must not be a "We Built It" type of business the way they are complaining about not getting enough gov't assistance. Of course all the folks in Tampa this week aren't "We Built It" type folks either. They're in Tampa only to try to reclaim their piece of the nanny-state.
Aug 27, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.
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I am kind of confused about how other schools districts are running based on some of these comments. In Walworth County the schools all have career options for juniors and seniors. You attend school for half a day and then the tech college for the other half. There are plenty of choices out there. This individual who can't read a tape measure is not the rosetta stone for all students. Sometimes I read comments and wonder if we are all living in the same state-and in some cases on the same planet.
Aug 27, 2012 at 1:45 p.m.
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13-18 dollars an hour? Need to be more in the 25-35 dollar an hour range if you want to entice well qualified, quality welders.
Aug 27, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.
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"There are plenty of good and qualified workers out there Ms Roessler. To say there is a lack of good candidates is disingenuous. I enjoy stealing good employees from other companies every day. How do I accomplish this? Pay them significantly above the prevailing wage."
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exactly!
Aug 27, 2012 at 12:05 p.m.
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Its not the lack of qualified welders, its the lack of qualified people. Cant read tape measures...etc.
Aug 27, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.
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Another one from Mike Rowe describing why he decided to speak before the senate "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo-cUZ2aRKc" Check out "www.mikeroweworks.com" for some very good stuff on the topic of the decline of the trades. Another great book is called "Shop class as soul craft" by Matthew Crawford. It's about a guy who has multiple BS and a DR and decided to leave the white collar world to go start a motorcycle shop. Great stuff in there about the decline of the trades and how public schools frown upon those going to tech school.
Aug 27, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
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Mike Rowe speaking to congress on this very subject. "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h_pp8CHEQ0"
Aug 27, 2012 at 10:59 a.m.
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I would be interested in what the CEO's position is on school funding. If they have supported expanding funding for programs, especially technical education, I would be on her side. As I read the article I was reminded of how European nations address the problem of finding skilled technical workers. Companies enter into contracts with young people, who spend 3 days each week at the job site and 2 in the classroom. They are paid for the time on the job and, if they demonstrate proper aptitude and work ethic, are guaranteed a job. This means that both sides have something to gain in the exchange. American firms need to understand that the law of supply and demand applies to them as well as to the rest of us. What the CEO seems to be complaining about is not that qualified welders don't exist, but that they won't work for her firm at the entry-level wage.
Aug 27, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.
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To: TCB
If you discuss this with United Alloy, they will tell you that they can't afford to pay welders more based on their limited budget. Therefore, to pay welders more, they would obviously have to make budget cuts elsewhere. CEO compensation expense and political campaign contribution expense is where they should make the cuts. Instead of wasting limited funds on political campaigns, they should invest in their workers. Basic common sense.
Aug 27, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.
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I agree, K-12 is not readying you for society, they are readying you in hopes you spend a bunch more money on a 4 year college... preferably a UW school so they get more of your money. The state is about money.. not people. Sad.
Aug 27, 2012 at 9:51 a.m.
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I'm not sure the public education system is totally at fault for not pumping out skilled trades like welders. I have been out of high school for 30 years and even back then if you took every class you could take in industrial arts it would not be enough to be a versatile welder for example. I had a 4 yr apprenticeship with one of the areas of education in welding. It is there I learned MIG, TIG, Arc, and brazing. That apprenticeship was a better education than any college of tech school could hope to provide.
Aug 27, 2012 at 9:28 a.m.
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New INTERNSHIP programs.
Brilliant idea. What won't they think of next?
Apprenticeship programs?
Employee training progranms?
Journeyman programs?
Aug 27, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
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maine,
All positions have a market clearing wage-including CEOs. UA will need to pay more if they cannot find qualified candidates-this is what will attract people to the open positions. Whether or not the CEO takes a pay cut is irrelevant-and the company can chose to support political candidates if they wish. Just as a union-which is a candidate-can support political candidates.
Unless you hold equity in the company and sit on its compensation committee you are not in a position to dictate the wage UA will offer for entry level/interns.
Aug 27, 2012 at 8:31 a.m.
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If United Alloy can't pay more, they need to cut CEO Compensation Expense and Political Campaign Contribution Expense.
Having said that, the deficiency of math skills does indeed stem from Gov. Doyle's days. This is shameful considering that Wisconsin property taxes rank 4th highest in the nation!
Greed took over both the private sector and pubic sectors -- too much of a limited budget allocated into the coffers of a few.
Aug 27, 2012 at 8 a.m.
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you can blame this company and the wages and working conditions all you want. Yes, they can pay higher and lure welders away from other companies who would then have to pay higher. Kind of like the old gas wars (oh the good old days). HOWEVER, as I go between southern and northern Wisconsin and look at job ads I see a common thread. Wanted: welders, CNC operators, truck drivers, and nurses. Not much else. In some cases it is true the jobs need to pay higher than the other choice.... but is that other choice the pay and benefits or lack thereof of unemployment? Spending a lot of time in hospitals lately because of a ill friends / family. See a lot of medical staff from around the world. WHY? Because our nation is very weak compared to other nations in math and science skills. We rank something like 23rd. I am proud to be born and raised in the USA but for too many years we have been chanting USA #1 without staying #1 in these type of fields. There is an overall shortage of qualified applicants. Employers can keep stealing from each other but that does not increase the pool. These manufacturing positions have been treated as 2nd class jobs for so many years and a 1 or 2 year technical degree treated as 2nd rate as well. And I have also witnessed the lack of basic math skills (if they can not push the button on a caculator, many of today's youth are lost). Just saying
Aug 27, 2012 at 7:54 a.m.
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They are offering paid on the job training. Learning a life skill, and get paid to do it. All UA was looking for from what I can tell is candidates with very basic mechanical skills. No it is not alot of money to start with, but it is a skill you can build on. If my son applied for this position and was not accepted, then I failed as a father and a parent. Maybe this would be a good place for some of you socialist to place blame.
Aug 27, 2012 at 7:41 a.m.
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JIM LEUTE
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Your newspaper has also been writing for over 6 months about the BTC/Industry partnership driven "Advanced Manufacturing Center"
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JIM LEUTE Did you ask Terri Rossler how much United Alloys with there record breaking profits were committed to invest in the one single thing that would provide a solution to their long term needs and the needs of many others like them?
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You are either not doing your job as a journalist very well or you did ask her and the answer did not fit into the "direction" you wished for your article... Again poor journalisim.
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We just can't seem to get away from this pesky skills gap
Aug 27, 2012 at 6:55 a.m.
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I worked for united once as a temp. got pushed out so a kid from upper managment could have a summer job. oh well no hard feelings. However i can read a blue print, a tape measure and i can weld, Also I can read calipers, OD tapes, ID tapes, Micrometers, and do quality inspections. I love to weld. Its the upfront pay cut i wouldnt take.
Aug 27, 2012 at 1:43 a.m.
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what they really mean is "qualified workers" that work cheap... the certified welders are making 40$$plus on the pipelines...soo yea its goin to be tough to get someone for 13$ AND if u do you don't want them to weld your tank together...trust me...
Aug 26, 2012 at 11:37 p.m.
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I'm with Ri-germancave guys slant on this. When she says this it really rubs me the wrong way. : “WMC has just identified this as a problem,” said Roessler, who attended the local program in June. “Their solution is that manufacturers must take the entire responsibility to train their own pool.” Of course they should train their own pool or provide a work environment, benefits and pay that attract the quality of worker they're looking for. Supply and demand is a two way street.
Aug 26, 2012 at 10:55 p.m.
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I took a look at United Alloy's advertisement for welders. One thing that stood out that may be restricting the number of potential applicants is the following:
"The desired candidate should have exposure to metal fabrication concepts and
processes and have at least 1 year of welding experience and/or welding degree."
Granted, this is a very reasonable requirement for the positions they are looking to fill. However, I'm fairly certain that there are people, that may be strong candidates, that would be discouraged from applying because of this.
Personally, when I was fresh out of high school, I had a strong aptitude for many things. That would have allowed me to gain the skill needed to preform a number of jobs, with a short amount of training. Yet, because of wording similar to that above, I never applied to a number of companies simply because such wording informed me that I didn't meet their basic requirements.
I'm quite certain that this is the case for many potential job seekers. There seems to be a trend of companies projecting a desire to hire individuals with a minimum amount of experience. And often, this minimal amount may be above the true minimum necessary. Doing so limits the company significantly. They are excluding a significant group of people that likely need only minimal training to become the asset a company is looking for.
In the article, I read of the intern program United Alloy had. Yet, on their website I saw no mention of it in their Job Openings section. Perhaps all that is needed is a more aggressive use of this approach. With unemployment being over 50% for those fresh out of school, I find it hard to believe that there aren't any trainable individuals out there.
Aug 26, 2012 at 9:55 p.m.
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Bingo RI
Aug 26, 2012 at 9:41 p.m.
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This is likely a case of "capitalists" failing to appreciate the other side of the coin. When the resource is skilled labor, the same supply and demand curve is still relevant. If you desire a commodity that is not readily abundant, the price will be reflected - meaning you will need to pay a higher price for that commodity. There isn't a shortage of qualified candidates - there is a shortage of qualified candidates willing to exchange their other opportunities for the ones offered here at this price point. You will find there are plenty of competent candidates when the wage rises to a point on the curve where it creates a sufficient incentive.
Aug 26, 2012 at 9:34 p.m.
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"My nephew was just laid off from a teachng job where he taught Industrial Arts. If we need these type of skills, why are the people who teach them being laid off?"
Thanks to Walker's budget cuts, all kinds of teachers are being laid off. Since there's no WKCE test for Industrial Arts, it's viewed as an extra and is ripe for the chopping block.
Aug 26, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
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MBHammer, sadly its more common than people realise.
As for DWD "retraining programs", I had the misfortune to be a dislocated worker due to a company closing. Took their little "test" and the only "training" they were willing to send me through was truck driving. Had to be something cheap and that could be completed within 3 weeks, exactly what their "counselor" told me. I have a knee issue which makes climbing into a tractor a PITA. And when I did go to the truck driving school (in milwaukee no less), I kept getting a run around from both the school and DWD on who pays for the DOT physical. Ended up saying the hell with it after finding a job. Did get a rather pissy call from the DWD counselor 2 weeks after I started my new job.
Like what many said already, UA gets what it pays for. Want crappy applicants, keep the pay scale low.
Aug 26, 2012 at 8:46 p.m.
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" A recent survey of 2,500 Rock County high school students shows only a handful had an interest in a career in manufacturing."
Why? Because the simple fact is that working 8-12 hours a day on a manufacturing floor, as a long term career, is not the dream most children have. No big surprise there. HIstorically speaking, the hometown factory is where the kids that either didn't, or couldn't go to college ended up. Is that a bad thing? Probably, because America needs to make things.
How does a country like Germany churn out high quality products with a well educated workforce and also paying outstanding wages?
If businesses need workers, why are they turning to the government to educate them? Isn't that the antithesis the current business owner mantra? Once again, government is bad, unless we benefit from the services offered. Typical.
Aug 26, 2012 at 8:05 p.m.
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There are plenty of good and qualified workers out there Ms Roessler. To say there is a lack of good candidates is disingenuous. I enjoy stealing good employees from other companies every day. How do I accomplish this? Pay them significantly above the prevailing wage. I make sure that for any given job category I am near the top of the pay scale so I can recruit who I want, retain who I want, and count on them to get the job done. The employees know I don't play around with substandard work because they are not paid substandard by any stretch. I hire the best and pay to keep them. My profit margin may be smaller than others but I and the purchasers of my products know the quality so we always have work. It's a simple equation really. You need to crank open that wallet and be able to compete for candidates. You need to better balance having orders coming in with finding workers to fill those orders. Is your company up to the task or no?
Aug 26, 2012 at 8:04 p.m.
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Onlife2live-They are talking about one applicant not the entire population of people his age. I wouldn't call that "going Obama" on you. This is not a partisan political issue. Now I could refer you to the new educational standards that are being implemented in all states to replace NCLB, that would be going Obama on you, but not in the way you would like. And yes it was called on the job training- you start at the bottom and work your way up through the organization. Even college graduates have to do that. It's neither the dems or the Reps that are causing your problems-it's people who would rather blame politicians for all their hard luck rather than just sucking it up and working their way up in the world the way their parents and grandparents did. The problem is that we used to need unskilled workers in American manufacturing. That is no longer the case. There's nothing political about that that's the free market being free. It's a sociological shift that some individuals are not making because silly political party crap and blame shifting seems to trump getting anything done these days.
Aug 26, 2012 at 7:12 p.m.
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Some one mentioned basic life skills or lack thereof. I witnessed that at a fast food restaurant. A customer asked the girl for a dozen tacos and the girl asked the customer, "how many is that?" It seems today's youth are great with phone toys and that's about it.
Aug 26, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.
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wmwiley says "In my day it was called on the job training."...
Teaching welders how to read a tape measure goes a little bit beyond "on the job training". in my opinion.
An employer should help the employee adapt to the work environment, but lets not get Obama on us. The applicant must have certain skills taught in the schools that we spent $70 million dollars on during the Doyle administration. Peace.
Aug 26, 2012 at 6:19 p.m.
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Truth-I do agree with you but let me throw this out there- what's relevant for one student is not relevant to another. I have two sons in thy're early 20's. I don't remember them taking any irrelevant classes in high school. One thing that bugs me is that scholarships aren't given to kids going to a tech school or a 2 year program and I agree the tech ed departments need to be bumped up. In Germany you make that decision as a sophomore and the next two years of school are either college bound or tech. That makes sense to me. Just curious-what would you consider irrelevant?
Aug 26, 2012 at 6:04 p.m.
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The pay isn't bad at all since these jobs were going for minimum wage in many places during the (depression)of 80-85...But, yes, the absurd taxes on working people will kill 'ya.
Aug 26, 2012 at 6 p.m.
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Earlier this year, the company set up an internship program for high school and technical school students interested in welding.
Initially, no one applied.
Eventually, four people signed up, but none of them—two from Blackhawk Technical College and two from Janesville high schools—could pass the basic math and blueprint reading tests.
What are they being taught then?! get with the employers and teach them for the jobs they are about to apply for. Simple. Duh.
Aug 26, 2012 at 5:52 p.m.
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wmwiley- Those are some good points but many public schools waste teaching time on nonsense that almost no one will ever find relevant to their lives.
Aug 26, 2012 at 5:52 p.m.
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So after taxes, these jobs will earn someone just about $900 every two weeks? Might be awesome for a very recent grad, and of course better than no pay at all, but I hardly find that "enticing" to support a family on for longterm- especially after investing money in a degree. Welding can be very dangerous and extremely hard on the eyes...with "record profits", United Alloy needs to up the compensation package.
Aug 26, 2012 at 5:39 p.m.
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There are more problems here than an education system. One of them is that the public schools are required to teach everyone-no exceptions-and to accomodate their needs. My guess is the applicants that could not use a tape measure most likely have lifelong learning disabilities. We don't fund schools enough to give the overwhelming number of kids who need more one on one attention the kind of education they actually require. It's a catch 22. I can guarantee you that most kids who do have these skills are not going into trades-they may after college doesn't work out however. The article says as much. That said -this is a great opportunity for those who do. This business owner makes some great points-but the reality is good companies have always trained their employees. As an immigrant my mom went from the typing pool to supervisor to manager of her department because the employer-not the government-provided those opportunities. In my day it was called on the job training.
Aug 26, 2012 at 5:28 p.m.
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I work for a company where people on the manufacturing floor are not well paid. I told one of the people who is an experienced welder about United /Alloy needing help. He told me he had worked there for a short time and left because he would not work for xxxx for wages. I heard that from numerous people. Ms Roessler...you get what you pay for.
My nephew was just laid off from a teachng job where he taught Industrial Arts. If we need these type of skills, why are the people who teach them being laid off?
Aug 26, 2012 at 5:27 p.m.
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"We pay a lot in taxes, there are some responsibilities the state is not meeting."
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*****************BINGO*****************
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This could have been said for the last 30 years.
Aug 26, 2012 at 5:17 p.m.
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No surprise.
For 40 years, public schools couldn't even manage to teach basic math and economics needed for living, how could they teach anything else?
Aug 26, 2012 at 4:50 p.m.
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Schools need to get rid of the the electronics and go back to the basics!!!!! Thats the whole problem here. They feel if there is a gadget to do it for you so why teach someone to do it for themselves.
Aug 26, 2012 at 4:39 p.m.
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It also doesn't help that we have a few idiots that post here and write that manufacturing is dead, and our whole economy is service, or online. What a bunch of crap.
Aug 26, 2012 at 4:33 p.m.
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Cutting the education systme by $600 MILLION doesn't help. Thanks for nothing, Governor Walker.
Aug 26, 2012 at 4:31 p.m.
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does she know how to weld? To blame technical education is not the answer to her problem/ The student is the one that goes to learn and the classes have worked for years. If she has an issue with the schools maybe she can start a welding class and TEACH it.
Aug 26, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.
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They can't read a TAPE MEASURE? *shakes head*
Reading a tape measure is not a technical college or shop math skill, it's a basic LIFE skill. I started reading thinking the employers were just whining, But we've failed our basic education and parenting so badly our adults can't read tape measures? I don't know where to go with that. Truly.
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