Look wee all had seen the video of what happened at the capital, we all had seen the actions of the union. We have now seen the AFL-CIO declaration recently. Yes..... there are a significant group of union memebrs that seem to think that they need to yell obcenities, lock arms and create a hostage situation or use other assault methods to secure their way. They have no interest in the demcratic proccess. Only in getting their way. And yes -- unfortunately, such a great city of Madison is exposed to those socialistic, violent activities.

noleftist......Thanks for your sensible post, I stopped posting for awhile because I found myself falling into the "pick on people" trap and needed to get back to not doing that. You are helping to restore my faith in this posting site.

This the same guy that posted quotes like this:

"Telling viewers that right-wing violence is 'isolated' or 'fringe' is inaccurate at best, misleading and dishonest at worst."

Please, you are the one who started painting everyone with a broad brush, which you now call intellectually dishonest. And nobody said "all union members or even all union protesters are 'thugs'" (a contention which, dare I say it, is intellectually dishonest). That was my whole point!

When you are the President of the United States or the head of the Teamsters, you should be setting an example of the BEST behavior. Instead, they put their leftist lackeys (e.g. you) in a position of having to rationalize away their behavior by saying "everyone else does it," which is what you have been doing on this whole string. Except for your last post which says just the opposite.

You Democrats are shameless hypocrites!

leftist,
Nobody will defend or excuse the behavior you describe. As even you will admit, there are idiots and extremists in every group.
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Claiming all union members or even all union protesters are "thugs" and behave as you describe is just as ignorant as claiming all Christians behave and believe as the Westboro Church does.
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Both claims would be unfair, untrue and intellectually dishonest.
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Agree?

Went to Madison when Palin was there. Union thugs and community activists were yelling "f*** you" to a 16 year old up on the podium and when they were singing the national anthem. They pushed my 73 year old dad to the ground, and wouldn't let an elderly couple leave, locking arms with other lefties, evidencing the group's appreciation for diversity and general open-mindedness.

Class tells.

Only a democrat president, would dump billions of taxpayer dollars into an absolute mess like GM under the pretense that "it's just too big to let fail", then turn around and broker a deal that would transfer ownership of half of the company to the very labor union that initially helped run it into the ground, while at the same time telling the hardworking Americans who had invested their savings into GM stock that they were now sh!t out of luck........yep--those democrats sure do support the middle class! LOL:)

Ezoner, if you wouldn't take your daughter to The Taste of Madison because you thought she would be assaulted by union "thugs" (who didn't seem to be anything but the nicest people the three times I was at the Capitol this Spring), you have WAAAAAAY bigger problems than any of us could have imagined. I hope your hate doesn't cause harm upon anyone before you come to your senses. Relax. Go Packers, our socialist football team!

What a bunch of union thugs..... I was actually afraid to take my daughters to taste of madison this past weekend. I am not sure what I would have done if they were assaulted by the union thugs that were there a few weeks/months ago.

yada..........
We need a president who works for ALL the people, not just for union workers (who are a minority of working Americans).
If that's wacky, I guess you are incapable of understanding what America is.....just like BHO.

Trumka To Obama: "Go To The Mat" For Labor Tonight

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2...

More WacKOLaDy SiteS ---kRAZY big time.

American Products -- I have worked for several companies that had union membership and my experience was that when their were strikes or protests, the union members used violence in nearly every instance. Throwing eggs at management, spreading nails across driveways, blocking hard working non-union white collar from entry etc... etc... etc..

Unions feel that the ends justify the means. They have more recently become a political extension of the democratic party opposed to the original intent to improve working conditions. Once working conditions had improved, they transitioned to taking as much as they could get -- which affects everyone, the customer, the white collar workers, the owners of the company (or stockholder/stakeholders). At this point they have no value but are still willing to use any means, financial or otherwise. The members are sheep, the leadership is raping the mambers. Its nothing but a ponsi ..

Home / News / Local / Local
400 union workers protest EGT-bound train, clash with police

Read more: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_573cb9...

And he supported a racist minister and threw him under the bus to get elected

Lots of examples of bad behavior from random unidentified people. Heck, just yesterday, they tracked down a murderer because he was wearing an Obama shirt. What exactly does that prove?

Evidently, it proves that we should expect the head of the Teamsters and an icon for the American union movement to publicly exhort thuggery from its members while the President of the United States stands by and cheers him on.

Thanks for making my point.

LOL, so local school boards are really debating and setting rules for all districts not just their own? Get real, AFT local 212 was part of the protesting. AFT local 212 represents technical college not k-12. Local districts can and will do what they want, as has always been done. The new berlin circus was local citizens standing up to organized protesting.

ezoner,
So you didn't see the word sorry either?
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RAF, What happens in New Berlin will eventually impact teachers in Milton, Janesville, Beloit, SP, Madison, etc...
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American: A great job you did on your research! Kudos to you.

Ever notice that the states with high unemployment are states that have the most union influence. Unions had their place in this county long ago, now they are mostly irrelevent.

americanproductsamericaspride perhaps you’re not aware of the details behind the new berlin meeting. The LOCAL taxpayers voiced their displeasure with organized labor, not local teachers. The planned union response was not just local teachers it was area union protesters. Please explain how work rules for this district are the purview of union protesters from different school districts that required their appearance at a new berlin meeting.

American products --- wrong - wrong wrong.... the reality is the left has used violence and strong language always..... Anytime the right fights back at all the left stands there and says see---- their bad too. The reality is the left needs a villian.... so they seek one any way they can.

Ok Woodyman77, How many user names do you have?

Did you ever see the word, "sorry"?
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Republicans aren't the only ones that refuse to apologize.
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Both sides are wrong, both sides are going to far and both sides should stop talking and work to fix the problems within the USA.
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Do you have the courage to agree with that?

“””First and foremost: The mainstream media has an obligation to connect the sudden use of violent rhetoric and imagery by GOP leadership to the various incidents of violent language and actions by political activists. Telling viewers that right-wing violence is “isolated” or “fringe” is inaccurate at best, misleading and dishonest at worst.

Second: GOP leadership needs to make unequivocal statements condemning all explicit use of violence and violent rhetoric in politics. Silence is consent.

Third: GOP leadership needs to demonstrates constructive ways for their supporters to express their disagreement with the opposition’s ideas or legislation. Brandishing weapons--either literally or on posters--is not constructive. Death threats are not constructive. “””
Jeffery Feldman, Editor in Chief FRAMESHOP

Doocy: "So Why Are People Angry? Maybe Because They Didn't Want This Bill?" Teasing a segment about the threats against Democrats, Fox & Friends co-
...
host Steve Doocy said: "Meanwhile, some House Democrats getting extra security after a series of death threats and even a little vandalism over their health care votes. So why are people angry? Well, maybe because they didn't want this bill?" [Fox News, Fox & Friends, 3/25/10]
....
Kilmeade: "Are Democrats Using" Threats Of Violence "To Their Advantage To Marginalize Republican Opposition?" On the same episode of Fox & Friends, co-host Brian Kilmeade said: "Here's the question, though: Is this a Democratic tactic to take some of the people on the fringe who are clearly out of line, doing things that show violence and threats because they feel as though the vote did not go their way. And are Democrats using that to their advantage to marginalize Republican opposition?" Kilmeade continued: "For example, Tim Kaine just put out an email -- he's a great guest of ours and is always insightful for us -- put out an email saying, look at what's happening out here in America amongst the other party. We're going to need your help, send $5. So, wait a second. How outraged are you if you're looking to raise money off the outrage?" [Fox News, Fox & Friends, 3/25/10]
....
Carlson Agrees It's "Disappointing" That Democrats Are Making Threats So Public And Says "They Should Just Stop Discussing It All Together." After Doocy said House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA) "thinks the Democrat lawmakers are feeding the public's frenzy over the threats by discussing them so openly in the media," Fox & Friends co-host Gretchen Carlson said: "It's such a political thing, though, guys. I think it would be happening on the other side of the fence, too, that maybe the other political party would try to take advantage of a situation, and that's disappointing. I think it's disappointing -- they should just stop discussing it all together. Just agree on the fact that it's disappointing behavior, no matter who's doing it." Later, after Kilmeade said, "You hurt your own cause when you have racial epithets or have homophobic phrases," Carlson stated, "It ruins it for everybody, just like the kid who acts up at the birthday party." [Fox News, Fox & Friends, 3/25/10]

For instance, let’s recall that last March when Congress was preparing to vote on passing health care reform, partisans in the far-right press denounced the vote in apocalyptic language as they depicted Democrats as monsters who deserved to be physically tortured.
……………………..
• Rep. Tom Perriello's (D-VA) brother's address was erroneously posted online by a Tea Party blogger who invited activists to descend on the house. A gas line outside the brother's house was cut.
• Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) was the target of threatening faxes and phone calls, including death threats.
• A brick was thrown through the window of the Democratic Party office in Rochester, New York.
• Rep. Anthony Weiner's office in Kew Gardens, New York, had to be evacuated after suspicious white powder was found in an envelope mailed to the office.
• A thrown brick smashed a window at Rep. Louise Slaughter's district office in Niagara Falls, New York.
• Slaughter also received a message claiming that "snipers were being deployed to kill those members who voted yes for health care," according to Politico.
• The FBI arrested a California man for making threatening phone calls to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
• A tossed brick demolished a window at the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita, Kansas.
• A devoted Glenn Beck fan left a serious of death threats (“Kill the f**g Senator! “) on the voice mail at the office of Sen. Patty Murray

Most notably, Chairman of the RNC, Michael Steele, issued a recent call to Republicans to put Nancy Pelosi on the “firing line” because of the health insurance reform bill.
………………
In a similar violent vein, Sarah Palin via Twitter told her Republican followers to “reload” and “aim for” Democrats, directing GOP activists to her SarahPac website where they found a map of the country festooned with rifle scope cross-hairs over Congressional districts held by Democrats.
………………
Mike Vanderboegh, former leader of the Alabama Constitutional Militia, recently called for hundreds of thousands of gun owners to "point their muzzles at the hearts of tyrants" when discussing ways to oppose recent congressional legislation. Reports have come out linking Vanderboegh's statements to recent violence against Democratic Party offices.
…………..
"This isn't my piece; it's the Republican Party's piece ... But if I was going to do a literature piece on this issue it probably would have been a little different,'' Jacobson said. "It's the party's prerogative to do this and I don't see anything that wrong with it."
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http://www.mnprogressiveproject.com/diar...

leftist,
Your last post is so biased and blind to reality. How can you forget the "summer of hate" when democrats were repeatedly shouted down and threatened? Heck, search youtube for New Berlin school board and watch the recent hatred aimed at public school teachers because they were upset about the changes to their working conditions (hours, requirements, pay, etc...)
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In case your forgot, I did a QUICK search re: republicans and violent language...here is a sample of what I found...

Vato;

Whether it's death threats aimed at Republicans in Wisconsin, the head of the Teamsters at an Obama speech saying his army marches for Obama and wants to "take those son of bitches (i.e. Republicans) out," union goons trashing the capitol and gluing school doors shut, or a high profile Senate Democrat calling people "white ni*****," you're unlikely to hear about it in the mainstream media, and even if you do, there won't be any dwelling on it because they have been assimilated, do not think for themselves (as illustrated repeatedly here), and have become part of the hive.

In short, being a Democrat means never having to say you're sorry.

"While he regularly lambastes Wall Street salaries, Obama has zero to say about the bloated salaries and benefits of Teamsters brass. According to internal data compiled by Teamsters for a Democratic Union, 120 top Teamsters officials made more than $150,000 in 2009 -- the largest number ever. Forty made more than $200,000 -- also an unprecedented number. Hoffa pulls down nearly $400,000 a year, including an exclusive housing allowance and cost of living raise."

http://townhall.com/columnists/michellem...

Sarah -- you cant be serious. Were you ever a kid.... I can just see that -- Johnny -- would you like to go to a march with a bunch of boring adults or would you prefer to play xxxxxxx (use Basketball, ride bike whatever). C'mon get real..... The parents are either so idealistic that they cant let the kids be kids or they are outright using them to play to cameras.

Plus -- I think its child abuse based upon what I see at the far left gatherings. Who in their right mind would take their kids to an AFL-CIO rally.... its kinda like taking a kid to a KKK rally.

No leftist

The article I posted below connects with your comment about what Hoffa said and how the Obama mob is silent on this issue because the Teamsters vigorously support obubbles.

Anyone want to talk about the civility from the left or congresswomen being placed in crosshairs?

This is why we need to limit union power.

Enjoy.

http://townhall.com/columnists/michellem...

When the head of the Teamsters calls the mothers of all Republicans "bitches" in public, followed by the President who says he's "proud" of him, you know who's won the argument.

SaraB - whenever I see a 7 year old carrying and sign or marching for a cause all I really see is their parents trying to make a point by showing cute kids on their side. It is all for show whether it be a union, right to life march or whatever. It is actually rather demeaning and cheap.

Stout -- oh well.... You mean teachers are treated the same way as other workers??? OMG.... They need to work hard to improve performance and efficiency, to achieve more for the money they are paid.... OMG..... The reality is they are now being held accountable. They are now working for the money they are paid. They must earn it...

Also -- thanks all -- in my post regarding the uselessness of unions in todays society -- all the points made are exactly what I was speaking to. Unions today -- no longer represent the worker. Because of their political contributions, they represent a group in society that seeks to bleed cash from another group. What they forget is we are all fighting for the same pool of money, its just how that money gets divided up and when its public unions, its tax dollars and we need to get value for that money. One comment I would make is that there are NO administartors for small districts (like Janesville) that are worth $100k. None... On that point I would agree. But there are no teachers worth that either.

Let's say your employer decides that, to increase the earnings for his family (that owns the company), he's going to eliminate health insurance coverage for its workers. With no jobs available anywhere else, and no collective representation among the workers, what are you going to do? That's why we need unions: to provide at least some balance to the worker/owner relationship.

Ah yes...play the gender card. Getting desperate aren't we? Well I guess when Jesse Jackson fails with the race card, gender is all you got left.

It is appropriate that the vast majority of the union workers we talk about here are women (nurses teachers clerical government workers). And since when do women need a decent retirement and health care AND a living wage? It is ridiculous -heck back in the day the Sisters of the Poor did that sort of work for free.
-----------------
So for the sake of prosperity - let us follow my boy Scotty's take and put these women in place.

After all the post that I have read regarding labor unions as being a problem, I have still to figure out how things would be better without them. Granted, I understand that for management and policy makers the situation would improve. However, I do not see how it will benefit anyone else. I'm sure people have some good examples.

So, to any anti-union believers: How will eliminating unions improve our economy for you?

I just don't understand how middle-class americans, while watching their "class" shrink, have bought into the idea that teachers and other public employees are the problem.
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I am all for capitalism but when the top % gets small yet more wealth, the bottom % grows and the middle is shrunk...I just don't buy the "CHARGE TEACHERS MORE" to fix the problem argument.
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Re-distribution is happening but it is the middle getting smaller and the top few getting richer.
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There is a HUGE problem that nearly 50% of the population doesn't pay income taxes...an EQUALLY HUGE problem is the amount of wealth controlled by the top 2%, top 10% versus the bottom 50%.

The other idea that people engaged in this "unions have no use" argument fail to recognize is...WHAT A HUGE POTENTIAL POLITICAL POWER GRAB THIS IS!
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If you are a progressive, liberal or democrat but not union this move should scare you. It is true that a huge amount of $$$ donated to the democrats come from unions. By weakening unions....union membership will decline...dues paid will decline....money to the democrats will decline.
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Combine that with the corporations are people movement from the supreme court destroying much of the protections from McCain Feingold and the democrats are in trouble financially.
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I believe that was one of the main reasons the union leadership was willing to give the $$$ if Walker agreed to keep the bargaining rights (work hours, job assignments, working conditions).
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Before people jump on take a look at New Berlin and know it wasn't the ONLY reason.
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I have always wondered how, if it was about the budget, why Walker wouldn't have taken that deal. Even just to check if the unions were bluffing...
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Other states have done the same and nobody can deny it is interesting to attack not just salary and benefits but the working rights of public employees.
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Unions have a purpose...public unions for teachers are critical...if you disagree take a look at New Berlin... less prep time, mandatory after school meetings, no pay for leadership or extra curricular positions, etc... How is that positive?

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-...

Ted Lewis is the teachers union rep. He is the "bad cop" that comes in when negotitions arent going the teachers way. He will obviously support the corrupt union management because he is one of them.

Beat each other up!
Beat you family!
Beat your friends!
Beat your kids teachers!
Beat the police!
Beat the firemen!
Great stuff,,, and just what the Koch's and company want! Enjoy!

ted, isn't it possible to support public educators and be anti-union?

tedmlewis, Gotta be honest with you, the reception for the teachers union was anything but "cheering crowds." I was actually quite surprised it was not more in favor. There were a couple that shouted support but really the three major crowd portions of the parade all I saw was silence. I felt that was telling and indicative of where the public stands. The soldiers, firefighters, and Elks/Sept 11th float got standing ovations, clapping, and cheering from everybody. I would say the response to the teacher's union was subdued at best.

Chris why don't stop the hinting, step right up and accuse the posters you believe who are astroturfing. I think it will be a fun read while you bring out the facts behind your claims, ummm I mean hints.

It was great to be part of a fantastic labor day, and to march alongside the great educators from the area. The cheering crowds told us that the community supports public education, notwithstanding the few but constant hysterical anti-public employee/anti-union voices.

Astroturfing is a form of advocacy often in support of a political or corporate agenda designed to give the appearance of a "grassroots" movement. The goal of such campaigns is to disguise the efforts of a political and/or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. The term is a derivation of AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass.

Astroturfers attempt to orchestrate the actions of apparently diverse and geographically distributed individuals, by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual promoting a personal agenda, or highly organized professional groups with money from large corporations, unions, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often, the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research. Beneficiaries are not "grass root" campaigners but distant organizations that orchestrate such campaigns.

it was a nice labor day not a union day. this tells it all.socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery..." Winston churchill...

I see the issue of take home pay being discussed here. What certain people like RAF is missing is more than the 5.8% pension contribution and 12% health care costs. Many teachers used to be paid extra for working over loads. This is the practice of a district not hiring more teachers but using the prep period of current teachers to teach extra class loads. This practice is being squashed by the new laws. Meaning the teachers are now required to do this for free or little pay. Also, prep times for teachers will no longer be something that happens. So I guess if you need to talk to your childs teacher good luck!! I'm not sure when they will have time to call you while dealing with 30+ kids all day long.

Maxcap75...... THANK YOU! Have a cool aid on me.

Mouse knows all! All Democrats drink the Kool-aid and follow the mouse.

MOUSE - I am proud of you - that was great information about the Koch brothers that you shared with the forum. You are so correct that the Koch brothers do not care about the middle class. Sad to say - we have many on this forum that are very ignorant of the sneaky Koch activity. Regarding Mr PATH TO PROSPERITY - Paul Ryan - Also better known as I don't have to tighten my belt becaue I can afford TWO $350.00 each bottles of wine. Ryan is involved with the Tea "Potty" - As far as I am concerned the Tea party is a racist group and it looks like many of our Re-FIB-licans are part of the group. I have seen the racist signs they carry and would be ashamed to say I am part of that group. Also got a laugh reading Walkers thank you statement to all of WI workers for labor day. The man is 2 faced!

The President’s Hypocrisy and Cynicism When it Comes to Civility

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/0...

I read an excellent quote today regarding unions, below is an excerpt:

"To the same degree Americans are concerned about irresponsible, greedy corporate execs who got cushy bonuses from taxpayer-funded bailouts, we should also be concerned about greedy union bosses who are willing to tank our economy just to protect their own power. As union history shows, power and greed corrupt. Just because you claim to represent union members doesn’t mean you are on the side of the angels. The greed of too many of these union bosses has all but destroyed the labor movement in this country, helped chase away our jobs, and is killing the American dream.

To see where this leads, look at what’s happening to the working class in our industrialized cities. These cities are going to hell in a hand basket thanks to corruption, crony capitalism, and the union bosses’ greed. The union bosses derive their power from your union dues and their promise to deliver your votes to whichever politician they’re in bed with. They get their power from you, and yet their actions ultimately hurt you. They’re chasing American industry offshore by making outrageous, economically illogical demands that they know will never work. And now that they’ve chased jobs out of union states, they’re trying to chase them out of right-to-work states like South Carolina, so eventually the jobs will leave America altogether. But these union bosses will still figure out a way to keep their gig, and so will their politically aligned corporate friends. As long as these big corporations have a good crony capitalist in the White House, they can rely on DC to bail them out until the whole system goes bankrupt, which, I am afraid, is not very far off. When big government, big business, and big union bosses collude together, they get government to maximize their own interests against those of the rest of the country."

This quote is from a speech given by an former union member, wife of a union member and relative to many union members. Her name is Sarah Palin.

RichE95... It's not just the state of Illinois, the city of Chicago is going through the same stuff. I have posted on here many times how Rahm Emanuel is sticking it to the teachers union and most other city employee unions. Basically he is saying "make concessions or lose you job". Funny thing is you don't hear much about it in the media. Could it be that Rahm is a good buddy and former Chief of Staff for Obama? The sad fact is that the liberal media sees nothing wrong with this.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-...

RichE95
Sep 6, 2011 at 10:21 a.m.
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Outstanding post! Thank you sir!
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I would love to hear a retort on that post by anyone.

The relationship between unions, workers, employers and the government has evolved considerably from the early days of coal mining. And like anything which grows far beyond its original scope, unions have found themselves under increasing scrutiny for creating more problems than they solve

Illinois raised income taxes 60% and borrowed $8 billion to please the unions. Read today's Chicago Tribune - Democratic Gov Quinnn threatens to lay off thousands of state employees and close facilities as early as this week if the Democratic state legislature doesn't give him even more money. No state employees were layed off in Wisconsin, the budget was balanced, fund skimming stopped, and debts to Minnesota etc paid. We should be gratefull to Scott Walker and the Republican State Legislators (certainly not Tim Cullen and his crowd). The irony is: had the Democrats and unions been successfull more of them would have lost their jobs. Who would they hate then? They would still hate the notion of financial responsibility. Funny thing though, financial responsibility and frugality actually work.

All I keep hearing is fear of bad working conditions? Is is negotiated in union contracts to not follow OSHA regulations or is it? If it is then how can anyone be worried about unsafe working conditions? When OSHA is involved, you can't fart without the proper documentation being in place.

Chris_H- You're a busy guy (or gal)for your first day posting. Seems like you got a lot to say. Welcome.

Chris H

The issue at hand is with public sector unions not private sector unions. Private sector unions negotiate with a private employer not a taxpayer based employer who is represented by many taxpayers. Public sector unions evolved to give Democrats more voting power. It is a blatant conflict of interest for taxpayers. If you do not see that then we have an issue.

You say it is all about the bottom dollar, I agree, it is about the dollars public sector unions lost in their efforts to keep their Democrat senators in check with voting influence.

They have no issues pouring in millions for recall elections.

Chris, if ezoner is all wrong, what is your response besides your laugh?
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My 20 year union experience was nothing other than paying union dues and watch poor workers being protected. Maybe I was lucky but the company I worked for had excellent working conditions and and they cared about the worker bee. Sure, I benefited from the yearly contract pay increases and insurance benefits but I'm salaried now with a different company and I enjoy those same benefits now without paying dues. Most of all, I am rewarded for a hard day's work. Those around me that have not put their heart in to the job don't work here anymore. Go figure--working hard and being rewarded for it. When I was in my union job everybody got paid the same thing whether you worked hard or hardly worked.

http://newsflavor.com/world/usa-canada/t...
..... AND WALKER AND RYAN WORK FOR THESE PAIR.
IF YOU THINK WALKER AND RYAN CARE ABOUT WORK IN WISCONSIN, THINK AGAIN.

"STaunch union supporters and far left liberals or as I call them on the left and right -- progressives, will never understand that securing your future at the expense of others is never the answer. Thats what the unions today do." LMAO that's not what unions do! Shows how much you know. seriously funny though how much do you make an hour! I hate to repost garbage but come on the guy in quotes there is obviously paid by his master into typing that drivel!

Unions unions do da, do da. Give me a union any day, they help stop the
cheap shot corporations who under pay, do da, do da day.
Ceo's and big time money with lobbiest who find it funny..... running away with workers money.
The police. the teachers, the firemen and miners..... no my friends these are not the whiners. It's the ones with the pots of gold, the dicky bow diners.
Get a clue, get the facts..... it's the $350 wine boys who stab the workers, "union or not" in the backs.

STaunch union supporters and far left liberals or as I call them on the left and right -- progressives, will never understand that securing your future at the expense of others is never the answer. Thats what the unions today do. They must demonize and degrade others, or take from others to get what they desire. They make it all sound utopian, that they are just trying to reach for the American dream, but their methods are all wrong. SOmeone else must fail in order for them to succeed. They dont understand that they must work hard to get what they desire. That they may not achieve what they want for themselves , but only for future generations, through hard work. Also -- they dont see that for every hard day of work they put in, there are 10 people playing the systems to get what they have fought for -- without any effort. Once or if they ever get to the point of really understanding, then the rhetoric on both sides will subside and people will begin to work together for a common goal. But as long as you have people shouting down each other and each sides views instead of denograting them, we will never get to an answer that will work for all.

Notice the names of a lot of these people on here " analertcitizen and totellthetuth wislady " They sound Generic. Really that's your usernames. Are you even in america? Are you in some cubicle collecting a pay check from some division of koch industries? Take a break, sip some coffee, I can see that I couldn't possibly have an opinion out here in internet lant. I am sure this will disappear behind your responses in minutes and probably not be seen by one "real" person.That's it after reading the 10,000th crazy Tea party written ideological comment by these astroturfers has finally done it> arghh i'm changing i ccint speel right all the sudden and i suddenly think michelle bachmann is really a smart lady and that I shouldn't think for myself anymore! Congratulation Astro turf teams!

I was talking to a man from Kenya,he questions are lobbyists in this country.In his country he calls the lobbyists are doing bribery.

91.6

Chambers of commerce businesses extract profits by shortchanging their workers and then give that money to the Republican party.

Unions take money from the workers and give it to the Democratic Party.

Global minimum wage is the answer. High import tax/tariffs to compensate for any company that doesn't comply with that set global minimum wage. Reward those companies that meet or exceed the US ideal of a fair wage with lower or no import tax. We are still a large enough consumer to be able to throw our weight around in a such a manner. Level the playing field.

Unlike years ago, we are now in a world economy. That isn't going to change so we better learn how to deal with it. Today the world has a glut of labor: places such as China, India, Asia and Central America have more bodies than we do and they are willing to work for less money. How do you complete with that? You have to get more efficient and lower your labor costs. Does that situation stink for blue collar labor? Absolutely. Is it going to change? No. So, union labor that demands more money and more benefits will continue to decline. Also, the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Those two factors mean jobs will continue to go overseas until we figure it out.

Unions are in business to keep unions in business.

I agree timetochange. I found that headline and how it was handled very telling. And the Gazette will deny up and down having any bias.

opinionsforfree....said pretty bluntly but mostly true. I would add that the Gazette should have started a riot when they ran a headline declaring that "Wisconsin voters send a strong, angry message" when it looked like the democrat Kloppenburg was on the way to winning the supreme court seat by a couple hundred votes before it came out that the republican Prosser had actually defeated her by a few thousand votes. Then the Gazette did not retract the original statement with a fair and balanced (and true) headline such as "Wisconsin sends a strong, angry message to unions and protesters". Shows where the Gazette stands on balanced reporting and the truth.

analartcitizen, during today's parade, watched the evil indoctrination of youth into the Democratic union dogma. Teachers Unions being supported by kids no older than 7 who have no idea what doctrine they advertised. Unions are worthless, Teachers union and followers are mindless. Shame on teachers who forced kids to march.

I feel sorry for liberals and unionists. Life is such a negative thing for them. They must go to bed unhappy, resentfull, and downcast. Then they have to wake up to another day of being downtrodden, unappreciated, and put upon. What a woefull and sad existence they live. Yet they simehow manage to carry on each day gathering the energy to hate again.

yada....If the massive amount of ignorance and stupidity present in almost every one of your posts is contagious, then yes, there is a very good chance that I could be learning disabled at this point. You have been posting alot lately and unfortunately I have been exposed to many of those posts......Maybe I need to shut down the computer for a day or two, shelter myself from your stupidity, and watch my intelligence level rise again.......Thanks for clueing me in to the fact that I was sinking to your level--much appreciated!:)

Why is the middle class losing out? Is it possible that they got to busy and let others make the decisions for them? They didn't pay attention to what was being done and now, when it all hits the fan----they are left holding the bag. Great wage increases. Great Benefits, but all having to be paid for eventually and those who made the deals over the decades got what they wanted and left the rest to suffer. Now, they are back almost demanding that we pay the bills that should have been already paid. One side wants to blame the rich one side wants to blame the unions and as long as both sides continue to blame each other, nothing gets done. Time is running out folks. Which is more important to you-working together or against?

totellthetruth- Are you talking about the executives who walk away with million dollar bonuses or teachers? I'm not certain.

The spew of the few support the faltering unions. Who who cries loudest has the most losses in their eyesight. Those who carry the American way of hard work need not the heavy hand of the union to push them to be productive, but the incentive of being a part of this great nation. Your 'majority' may have the most decibels, but they don't have the numbers they need to support their selfish desires.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/05/...

NVgrf - You are correct about RAF and his comments. I find it hard to believe someone in the military would continue with his cheap shots and idiotic comments. I thought it might be the years of high altitude training that was causing his problems. Although he does fit in with the Walker regime.

The downtrodden and oppressed have options. They can join the Air Force. A very large socialistic organization that specializes in bombing people from 30,000 feet. Egg chuckers on steriods.

Egg tosser those that fall on hard times are not helped by unions, they are helped by society. Then again expecting you to grasp reality is a stretch.

Good way to start an online riot gazette. I throw in my punch and say unionsa are not needed anymore and for you teachers, you knew what you were getting into when you said " I want to be a teacher some day"

So don't say the unions help the kids they hurt them and I can prove it. Dont say it will help your working conditions. Dont say it will help get your better wages.

I want to see teacher held for the performance how teaching.

I say Scott Walker is doing the right thing.

HAAAA.. Richie, hope that invigoration does not lead to the big one! Suggest you take blood pressure medicine, lay off the viagra, and take Rush Limpbaugh in small doses.

RAF....This idiotic comment is so you! "All that can't stand on their own "need" a union"
With this type of a view of those who have fallen on hard times it is not a wonder why people like you, and you as a matter of fact, make me puke. And people call the President an elitest?? The woman I am talking about is twice the person you will ever be!

Hooroo

Hey 916 - It's okay--> A 91.6 IQ is not the worst thing in life - trust me- You can brush your teeth, comb your hair, and life must be really good for you. The Wechsler Intelligence Scale says that your 91 is of average intelligence, but you may have a learning disability. From your comments it sounds like you also may have anxiety problems or an inferiority complex. Although I am more concerned about any psychiatric issues that are bothering you. Think positive and you will do well in your life. Think negative and you will not do well. Almost forgot--> Who is this "KUCINISH" guy you speak of?

I am invigorated and renewed reading the hate talk from liberals. They hate Walker and Walmart. Elitist liberals go to Target or Basics where they believe they won't have to rub elbows with real lower income working people. Of course those places aren't exactly union strongholds - but that doesn't matter. It's the hatred and bigotry liberals have that counts most for them.

*sigh* Every Gazette Comments section on these stories ends up with people arguing like 6 year olds with a political agenda.

I have a friend who cleans rooms at one of the hotels where I live. She is a single mom who makes $3.25 per room and must have her child in day care. She is a terrific art teacher who lost her job when a math teacher was added. Our hotel and casino jobs are not unionized and these people make up a segment of America's working poor. Anyone who believes these folks do not need union representation is a moron...plain and simple!

Well said Yada. Scott Walker is a career politician, panderer and hack. He did not eliminate collective bargaining to save money, he did it to reduce the power of his political adversaries. His "save money" ploy was a lie from the beginning. He is a manipulator who revels in conflict. That is the reason many of us HATE Scott Wanker. He started it, and he deserves public ridicule he gets from those who oppose him.

ambition, greed and corruption...
Sounds like the union bosses to me.

Here's your reading assignment...

A Time for Choosing, by Jonathan M. Schoenwald

@yada- your comments are right on about the way people in Milwaukee view Walker- at least the people from the more well educated parts of the city. He created problems from the beginning of his time in Milwaukee until the end. In fact- he took money from the state to balance the Milwaukee County budget- yes that means essentially the people of Rock County helped balance the Milwaukee County budget.He created devisiness and pandered to those whom he thought could help him- just like he's doing now. All in the name of saving the Milwaukee and now the state.

yada.....more ignorance coming from you.......You would have to be a fool to think that limiting the union influence by reducing the areas involving collective bargaining would not save the state money. As far as the hearing where Kucinish ranted at Walker--Kucinish was the one who looked like an idiot. First with the rant against Walker, then rambling on to the committee chair, before the committee chair explained to Kucinish that he was wrong and quickly and calmly put him in his place.......I guess it's all a matter of perspective though. The anti-Walker crowd has always believed that a mindless, baseless, out of control rant can be equated to winning an argument.:)

Wislady..... I think you need to read the book......Reckless Endangerment.
How outsized ambition, greed and corruption led to economic Armageddon.
(Freddie Mac)...... then come back. Problem with you, you might need someone to read it to you.

STUDS - BEST COMMENT - Well done - I agree with you that attacking each other is wrong, but it is worthy to mention that this is what was happening when Walker became CO. Executive in Milwaukee.(YES - I know first hand about this.) He brings to the table a disruptive style of management that has always caused people to take sides and inner fighhting begins, It would be good to have the people here start reading the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel so they can follow the Walker John Doe campaign probe which the Gazette is not doing an adequate job of. Regarding the editorial & article in the Gazette Sunday paper on unions - Re-FIB-licans Joe & Amy do not have enough LIFE experiences to fully understand and grasp the need for unions. Both sounded goofy with their thoughts on unions. Did Joe ever get out of his basement? The Gazette editorial forgot to mention the $800 million dollars that Walker took from education that is causing the budget problems in Janesville and other cities. Hard to believe that it was not mentioned, but what the heck - if they were unable to spell FLEES vs FLEAS that shows the lack of thinking ability. Final thought - I am not a union member, but find the editorial to be so wrong in its lack of union and JEA support that I will be in on Sept 6th to END my Gazette SUBSCRIPTION. I cannot support a newspaper that is unable to see the FACTS as they are - Walker took 800 million from education & removed collective bargaining rights - which SAVES NO MONEY. Thank you Democrat Joe Kucinich for making Walker look like a fool and admit to that. I toast all of the union people and say thank you for all that you have done for the quality of life that we now have. Sorry that I am unable to toast you with a Paul Ryan $350.00 bottle of wine, but I cannot afford it. NOS VEMOS.

@skinny ,where is your proof that we all can see this is true. they would have to be taking home some serious pay to have that much deducted.

We're not asking you to work 14 hr days for $3 per hour. Were asking you to work 1/2 a year for a full year's wage and pay a tiny percent of your health care costs. Next on the docket, police and fire.

Labor Day started in the 1880's as a way of commemorating the struggles of organized labor and the successes of the collective bargaining process. If your politics are anti-union (and if you support the anti-union legislation being passed all over North America), consider going to work today and working a 14-hour day for $3.00 an hour.

KLC that is a good point. To this point I have need read a report of a school district requiring more than the 12% yet, it may happen someday.

RAF, though my intention is not to get bogged down into a false and distraction-ary debate that is likely based on false premises, the answer may lie in what you said, "the new law prescribes a minimum 12%." Minimum, not maximum.

Not being smug. I am actually very curious what the numbers are. I hate how some people post on here and give specific examples and then decline to share their firsthand knowledge. My brother and sister in law are both teachers and I wanted to see if skinnypuppy's numbers matched theirs.

"A teacher in southern Milwaukee is making 31,000 a year and just lost $987 a month in his checks"
-
Did you fail math in school or are really that gullible?

5.6% of this "hypothetical" teacher's money would go to pay for a voluntary pension. In this case $1736 per year or $144.67 per month.

The remaining increase in deductions from the state law would be voluntary healthcare. The new law prescribes a minumum 12% of the cost of their healthcare premiums, while the remaining 88% is paid by the employer. Based on the numbers you provided this teacher is now paying $842.33 per month, $10108.00 per year, for their voluntary healthcare coverage. Since that $842.33 is only 12% of the premium cost the tax payer must be paying $7000 per month and $84200 per year for that teachers healthcare to make your numbers work.

So which is it did you fail math or are you that gullible?

Usefulness of unions? Should read uselessness of unions!

Public unions are of course interested in their own interests - that is essentially the definition of a union. It is not unreasonable for a group of people to band together and fight for compensation, benefits, and work conditions. What is unreasonable is to demand that due solely to their success, unions ought to be essentially disbanded. Some constraints or limitations may make sense - but I believe that the true power is not with the unions but the elected officials who negotiate these contracts. Public workers utilize a democratic process to represent themselves. Tax payers use a democratic process to represent themselves. Why the uproar? Why the vilification? It seems to me there ought to be a democratic solution.

@unclesmoothie- Very smug aren't you. I'm sure the take home pay was more than you bring home in a month. So- be a teacher smartie.

C'mon skinnypuppy, what was the take home pay before and after the cuts? What was the amount on the check stub you looked at for take home pay?

Southern Milwaukee area; I didn't specify MPS...pardon me RAF.

"A teacher in southern Milwaukee is making 31,000 a year and just lost $987 a month in his checks"
-
Did you fail math in school or are really that gullible to think this was the result of a new state law that did not even effect MPS employees yet?

skinnypuppy.....If they are losing $800 to $1000 a month, what was their take home pay prior to these cuts? Since you have actually seen these paystubs, I am sure a lot of people here would like to know their previous and current take home amounts. Please enlighten us.

Agreed.

@skinny I would not blame teachers losing thousands per month for seeking employment elsewhere then. I agree that is not right. I don't agree that asking for a couple hundred a month towards benefits that I am currently helping fund almost 100% as a taxpayer is a sign that the sky is falling.

@timetochange - some public workers are losing "only" 7-8% but many, many are losing significantly more than that. And that is a fact I know to be true from literally looking at the paystubs of my friends. These are entire districts of teachers - thousands and thousands of hard-working people. And THESE numbers are truly appalling but totally "legal" under these new guidelines.

Since I understand that's the way the game's played I choose not to look at my boss the wrong way. Seriously though, that example was a little dramatic but probably not far from the truth as most private sector employees operate under employment at will.

@timetochange- don't get me wrong- I'm not a teacher, in fact, I'm a retired businessman. Rules should always have some meaning behind them. If you can get fired for looking the wrong way at your boss, that is almost sad. You might be happier working elsewhere- not every business is like that.

I agree $1,000 a month is way too much, but nothing I have read so far put the loss of take home pay at that level. Everything I have seen in the news puts it at 7 - 8% max which is one par with what a lot of private sector workers have been cut over the past 3 years.

Not only are teachers in the Milwaukee area being hit with some 1800s era rules, I have three friends who have lost between $800 and $1000 a MONTH in take-home pay - not $150 a month as mentioned by a previous poster. I am NOT downplaying $150, but I wonder how many of you could suddenly just lose nearly $1000 a month and even continue to make your housepayments? A teacher in southern Milwaukee is making 31,000 a year and just lost $987 a month in his checks. Is this really what people really believe is a fair way to handle our teachers? I don't believe it's fair for anyone to have to suffer in such a manner. And just because it has happened to some, doesn't mean it should happen to all! We need to stop being divisive and remember that 90% of the wealth is in the top few hands and the rest of us grapple for the scraps...which is on par with many, many third world countries' wealth distribution. That is the core of our problems, not the supposedly "exorbitant" cadillac lifestyles of union workers.

@anal I guess I don't understand why those new rules would get you so fired up? I come from an environment where I can get fired for looking at my boss the wrong way so I just don't understand why the loss of collective bargaining is the end of the world. Its not like you work in a coal mine. I guess its hard for me to understand since I've never had the benefit of a union bargaining for me, but I have experienced my employer reducing my take home pay through benefits cuts...seems to be a characteristic of the times.

@timetochange- the issue is not contributions to health insurance and retirement, the issue is collective bargaining. If that is removed from the unions, employers can make demands on employees that are downright unfair and unattainable with no real checks and balances on their demands ( ie:union) Right now in New Berlin the school board has put in place some ridiculous rules for teachers such as skirts below the knee, buttoned up shirts, reporting a traffic citation within 24 hours or risk being fired, no coffee makers in teachers lounges, etc. None of this having to do with education.

Can somebody please explain how asking public employees to contribute to their health insurance and retirement plan costs is an "attack"? When my company increased my monthly health premiums by $150 no questions asked I didn't blame Doyle or Obama, but I also read the paper and kind of understood what healthcare costs were doing to businesses. Nobody is attacking teachers, just asking for a little budget sanity in Wisconsin. And I'll say this again, I fully support an overdue tax increase along with cuts to teachers' Cadillac benefits.

Is that really Garyprimer complaining about marginalizing someone's comments and trying to reduce them to a stereotype? Turn over a new leaf and practice what you preach Gary, then you won't seem so disingenuous.

Even so, he's on to something. However, the marginalize and stereotype methodology isn't limited to one side. It seems to be the preferred tactics of many on both sides of this issue as well as among some of the Gazette's most frequent posters. Few actually discuss issues. Take the union issue for example. If one were to take some of the rhetoric frequently espoused seriously, one would be convinced that Wisconsin is populated mainly by under taxed, greedy Billionaires. Instead, Wisconsin, particularly the Janesville area is mainly populated by people who are just getting by. Yet, to get even with politician in Madison, our own public servant unions refuse to make any financial concessions at all. We all know they don't have to. But they seem to be of the opinion that Janesville residents are flush with cash and are just greedy jerks for not wanting to pay any more taxes than they already do. Yep, marginalization and stereotyping are indeed a big problem. They make it easy to ignore anything one doesn't want to hear.

Look- we all know that unions have some changes to make, that education needs an overhaul, that the economy is at best stagnant, that politicians are killing the economy and really don't care about anything but being re-elected. We all know that but some of these posts indicate that ALL of the trouble started with "unions". Sorry- but what about the billions of dollars in bonuses given to GM execs, GE execs, Investment firm execs, banking execs, etc. The union worker is by no means sitting on easy street... but they are.

I as a lifetime UNION member know how they are when it comes to our rights. They will stand with you and keep the workforce FAIR and protect you from the GREED of corporations and corrupt government And the likes of WALKER AND HIS GOATS (GOP) I also know how non union companies can get away with unjustified treatment of their workers AND I WILL CHOOSE UNION ANYDAY and I amd willing to PAY DUES TO HAVE A FAIR WORK PLACE AND BE TREATED AS A HUMAN BEING. ENOUGH SAID

It is easy to point the finger at either the unions, or management.
The fact of the matter is they both have become far from what they started out to be.
Unfortunately the one thing they share in common is GREED.
And this puts the average middle class worker left out of the picture completely. We are nothing but numbers for either of them.
A very sad situation, and the condition of this wonderful country we live in shows it very well.
Today we should honor the true laborers of our great country.
Forget about this political crap.

Celebrate labor and shared goals

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/opinion...

Since the City Council precedes Mr Ryan in the parade lineup, it will be interesting to see what antics Mr Rashkin comes up with. He was elected to a non partisan position, supposedly representing all citizens of the city, yet posts on a liberal blog:

"the best way to greet Representative Ryan when he marches down the Janesville Mile is to simply turn your back on him and other Republicans "

"Just because someone walks in the parade does not mean anything other than an application was filled out and approved"

Really? Mr Ryan was elected, just as Y Rashkin was. Mr.Rashkin is in a "non partisan" elected position, supposedly representing the City, but is attacking all republicans?

SHAME ON YURI RASHKIN....while representing the City of Janesville.

When anyone uses the term typical, it means that that they are lazy and want to marginalize someone's comments by reducing them to a stereotype.
Interestingly, this is the same tactic used by bigots and religious fanatics.
Have a safe and happy Labor Day.

Typical Liberal you are Zoom, faced with facts, you still make excuses because you can't handle the truth! Good job Jv93!

Joe Knilans is a two faced politician who has always been looking out for "ol' Joe". Never heard him complain about the benefits the union got him at GM. Now that he has used all that the union provided for him and he now is sucking up to the Republican party, he sees no need for the same union benefit he enjoyed for years. And explain Joe, how by buying health care by ourselves we can get it cheaper than negotiating as a group? Snake oil salesmen are now just politicians.

Union leader draws lucrative pension perk based on false information

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watch...

The other idea that people engaged in this "unions have no use" argument fail to recognize is...WHAT A HUGE POTENTIAL POLITICAL POWER GRAB THIS IS!
.
If you are a progressive, liberal or democrat but not union this move should scare you. It is true that a huge amount of $$$ donated to the democrats come from unions. By weakening unions....union membership will decline...dues paid will decline....money to the democrats will decline.
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Combine that with the corporations are people movement from the supreme court destroying much of the protections from McCain Feingold and the democrats are in trouble financially.
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I believe that was one of the main reasons the union leadership was willing to give the $$$ if Walker agreed to keep the bargaining rights (work hours, job assignments, working conditions).
.
Before people jump on take a look at New Berlin and know it wasn't the ONLY reason.
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I have always wondered how, if it was about the budget, why Walker wouldn't have taken that deal. Even just to check if the unions were bluffing...
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Other states have done the same and nobody can deny it is interesting to attack not just salary and benefits but the working rights of public employees.
.
Unions have a purpose...public unions for teachers are critical...if you disagree take a look at New Berlin... less prep time, mandatory after school meetings, no pay for leadership or extra curricular positions, etc... How is that positive?

There is 0 chance of us fixing this mess without everyone taking a huge slice of humble pie mixed in with some mutual re-education. Anyone who thinks the solution is to either continue to kick the public employee unions when they are down or to entrench themselves and refuse to make any concessions is ensuring hostility and non-starters for years to come. What occurred and the reactions to it are extremes. Where is the political leadership in our community and state? They need to begin pushing, and pushing hard, for a moderate approach.

You go jv93. For all those complaining, post what you made last year and how much you paid in taxes. those are the real figures. And for those that have a pension they don't pay for, here are some other facts.

A married couple, both teachers, taught for 30 years and never paid a dime for their pension. Their incomes together in their last year of teaching was over $120,000.00. Their pension income last year was $119,000.00. Remember they paid nothing towards this. If they live another 20 years, they will collect $2.38 million dollars. Who do you think is paying for this? We are. How much will the private sector worker get when he retires that he never paid for? Nothing or very little. Surely not enough to live on.

I wish Jimmy Hoffa was still around. He could give a labor day speech on how there is no union corruption, how no political arm twisting takes place, there are no threats of violence and no intimidation tactics...... and the list could go on and on. I wonder what happened to good ol' Jimmy Hoffa?

FBI arrests prominent Democratic campaign treasurer

http://www.ocregister.com/news/durkee-31...

When the members of the union are given a choice to pay for union services or not will be the ultimate usefulness vote.

Take money & benifit's away from those in power
You never hear any of them saying they want a cut.
Those being the elected one's

The-Unions being in danger of becoming discovered as not useful arguement is irrelevent. They alreay have bee discovered as such. I get a laugh out of how Steve Strieker says,
*
“What’s most disheartening to me is that the American Dream has been totally shifted,” said Strieker, who teaches history at Janesville Parker High School. “It used to be, ‘I want better for my kids. I want the next generation to have more security, better education, better income, better prospects for the future.’ I just don’t see this downsizing and the attack on unions as moving us toward that.”
*
What?! Teach your kids basic cause and effect. You sound as if the American dream was suppose to be handed to the next generation. The 'dream' is to have the opportunity to try. You want "better" "more" etc etc. and it all sounds soooo good doesn't it? Maybe you should learn from a few of the older uncorrupted text books and then you could teach yourself why things actually happen. You are diluting the issue as well. YOUR pay has everything to do with YOUR opinion. The American dream is STILL there. These associations to how the recent budget cuts alledgedly affect the "kids", the "American Dream" etc, is a great big load of deflection. YOU are selfish.
*
It is simple. The work force under union control has become too bloated. Sure these workers may not be rich, but where is it that they had to be better off than others. I like how the unions are now trying to align with the other members of the work-force world to keep from appearing as isolationists. TOO LATE!!!!!

"Public unions can still bargain for wages, Knilans noted."

What a complete and utter lie. How does this guy sleep at night? The unions can only get a "raise" up to the rate of inflation. That's not a raise. That's a cost of living adjustment, if they're lucky.

jv93, why limit your tax comments to Federal taxes only? Because you're a lemming. Poor and middle class Americans spend a much higher percentage of their income on taxes of all forms (sales taxes, property taxes, school taxes, goverment fees, social security and medicare, etc.) than upper class people.

The only thing more comical than the false logic of your argument are the lemmings on the right that keep repeating it.

Janesvillean, You do understand that the top 10% of the wage earners pay 50% of federal taxes collected. Let's expand that a little. The top 25% pay 65% to even 75% of the federal taxes collected! Holy cow! As a matter of fact in 2009 alone nearly half, that's 50% of American households had ZERO federal tax liability. That's ZERO. They pay NOTHING. They are however the ones who collect the most in benefits. Get this regular folks! Some households actually GET MORE back than was withheld through the earned income tax credit, AKA "economic justice," which is really just a fancy term for income redistribution. We take forcibly from this person who earned the money and give it to this person who did not. Stealing, mooching, leeching anyone? So please spare me the "us the poor workin man is done tired of payin for everything" speech. It is flat out false. And the garbage rhetoric you produce is class warfare and people like you and your progressive ilk seek to use jealousy and envy to drive a wedge in between Americans in order to divide people to garner votes by promising more gifts to people who did not earn them. Just change your username to Santa. Educate yourself. Go find out who "the rich" really are. I think how your government defines "rich" may be very different than how the average guy walking the street would define it. To somebody like you "rich" probably is just somebody who has more of anything.

This report sure seems to have everyone's panties in a knot!

booch11....Under what administration were the laws past that allowed corporatios like GE get away with this? Didn't the current administration just try to close loopholes like that and ask a litle more out of the ultra rich during the debt talks? What party was it that almost shut the government down if we were to ask more of corporation? Did I not see ALL the Republican Presidential candidates take a oath that will not change anything that would increase tax revanue? I assume that also means they they would not change corporate loopholes. Was it not our own Scott Walker and Republican Assembly and Senate that removed tax credits for the poor while giving tax breaks to the corporations?

Not my original thought, but the following comes from a conservative blog, Playground Politics. I could not have said it better.

"But what is most unfortunate is this boorish, teachers suck mentality that so many conservatives seem to wear as a perverse badge of honor these days. With that kind of mentality, you're embarrassing yourselves, you're embarrassing Wisconsin, and you're making the land of my birth look like a place that should be fenced in lest some of you ever escape.

Teachers have no real power anymore - at least in Wisconsin. But they still have a wealth of knowledge and experience in the classroom - certainly more than the average hack protester who shows up in a dingy t-shirt, holding a sign, and spouts opinions that have far outpaced the handful of oft-distorted "facts" he's able to keep in his head. More often than not, that person has no classroom experience whatsoever."

I just don't understand how middle-class americans, while watching their "class" shrink, have bought into the idea that teachers and other public employees are the problem.
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I am all for capitalism but when the top % gets small yet more wealth, the bottom % grows and the middle is shrunk...I just don't buy the "CHARGE TEACHERS MORE" to fix the problem argument.
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Re-distribution is happening but it is the middle getting smaller and the top few getting richer.
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There is a HUGE problem that nearly 50% of the population doesn't pay income taxes...an EQUALLY HUGE problem is the amount of wealth controlled by the top 2%, top 10% versus the bottom 50%.

verbakint,
GE paid no taxes under the current administration.
meanwhile, during the current administration, the earned income tax credit has expanded resulting in payments upwards to $5,600 annually to families (retroactive for three years) -- even if they did not work a day.
evil conservatives?

Callmeal, The Bar Association, the Realtors Association, etc., are all there for the same purpose as Chambers and labor unions, it's about economic and political power. I don't oppose any of those organizations and prefer to take a live and let live attitude. Let the free markets sort it out. But when some organizations main goal is to wipe out another organization by lobbying government to legislate them out of existence. We should all have a problem with that. It stems from hate and builds into oppression and total control. Then it is war.

Funny how the conservative U.S. Supreme Court and Mitt Romny say that Corporations are people. But, the conservative think they should pay no tax unlike other people. Maybe this is because money also equals speach, and the people that are corporation are the only ones that can speak loud enough for republicans to hear them.

Reform ultimately necessitates future reform. So goes life and society. Pendulems swing. Unions were a much needed reform movement. It swung to far and they became elitist and a protector of the status quo. Necessary reform is taking place in Wisconsin. No doubt at some point in the future, these new reforms will require reform. We are fortunate to live in a country where reform is possible.

Such nitpicking.
We are in deep financial water
and instead of looking for life rafts there is blaming and whining.
Start to circle the wagons and prepare and save.
I think this will be a long difficult decade for everyone.

Another biased report to get us all to say, "Those lousy unions!" Well, we're really attacking each other and the diminishing middle class. I reject these false choices and say, "Let's stop giving tax breaks to corporations and the rich."

youkillme; that was a great analogy. What do you think about the "BAR ASSOCIATION"? I might be wrong but, do Lawyers have to belong to practice? Of course they will say it's not a union.

First off Joe, public unions work Nothing like the UAW. Atleast now I know what Joe and Amy were thinking when they voted. They had two choices on how to fix the budget in their minds. Everyone helps get us out of the mess that all of us got into or we could just make one segment of the states citizens pay for the mess we all made. They choose the easy way by blaming one small segment of the states citizens and putting the cost to fix it on them.

Dwight D. Eisenhower:
Only a fool would try to deprive working men and working women of their right to join the union of their choice.

jv93, the math shows that the wealthiest sectors of society have benefited the most from continued increases in US gross domestic product and productivity. This is not, as you suggest, a conspiracy theory. We are simply fed up with everyone else (i.e. the 80% of the country who are NOT benefiting) from being blamed and forced to bear more of the tax burden and now, being forced to hear people tell us WE are engaging in class warfare. If we have been, we haven't been doing it very well.

philfake..... I think you need to read the book......Reckless Endangerment.
How outsized ambition, greed and corruption led to economic Armageddon.
(Freddie Mac)...... then come back.

I hate to break it to you but hundreds of doctors and lawyers were public employees and union members. They are leaving in droves.

If labor unions have no relevance, neither does the Chamber of Commerce. Many things that chambers have fought for are now part of government laws and regulations, so those protections are for everybody. Using the same logic they use for unions, Chambers of Commerce are simply not needed any more. Yet, Chambers and their collectives are pushing even harder for political power in government. Why can't these professional businesses stand alone as individuals like they expect employees to? Why? That's obvious. But Unions represent the most sought after commodity in the world when it comes to making money - labor - and corporations along with their parasitic stockholders hate them for it. They hate employee associations or any organized effort for the common class to fight back. American business expatriots are buying labor gold for the price of silver in China, Brazil and India. American taxpayers have little to no representation in government so unions have become the last refuge for the common wage earner. The is a war on and its growing every minute with each passing day.

Corporate America has done there job. They have work for years to pit worker against worker and non union against union. They have bought there Republican officials and sold there right to low taxes and anti worker laws. We the people have fallen for there garbage and made it a bad thing for some of use to have things better than others. Instead of striving for better wages and benefits we have fallen in line like pupits and voted for corporate backed law makers to strip a good wage and benefits away. After all its easier to do that than fight to get better. One by one each industry was affected. Now the public sector is in line for a triming. Most teachers I know voted for Republican for years. They always considered them selves PROFESSIONAL UNION people and they voted different then the guy who punched the clock. Now they are in the same fight as the rest of us have been in for years. Wake up people and know who the people are that are screwing you. These guy vote for there own raises and benefits while taking ours away. The coporations pay low tax rate and move our jobs out of the country. Union people and unions are not screwing you.

Wouldn't the Union Presidents also be considered *evil rich people*?

Do they have meetings? A secret handshake? A special password? You know if that "class" you speak of had something to offer the market they could take some of that capital back from the evil rich people. Kinda neat how it works like that. But facts like that don't get people all fired up.

Yes, economic justice. Informed middle class members of society recognize the great injustice of the corporate wealthy controlling the laws, and in turn cutting their own taxes and creating a work force that's just happy to have a job - any job. The more they can control worker pay and benefits, the more they take to the bank.
When the class that can afford to give the most sets up an environment of paying the least, that's economic injustice.

“We’re talking past each other, and if we’re going to keep that up, we’re not going to determine who it is we want to be and who we want to take care of,” Olson said.
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Amen.

"Economic justice?"