I only wish The O'Reilly Factor, The Glenn Beck Program and The 700 Club were broadcast 24/7. With the O'Reilly/Beck/Robertson followers occupied and not commenting, the comments that are posted become strikingly more intellectual and factual.

"You using 2 call names these days? Mr Robot?"
-
Sure mouse, whatever.

Hate to tell you RAF but my opinions are formed in my brain, you must watch a lot of TV/media though as you seem to have a lot of sources staked out. The life of a disciple must be excellent for you! Hope you enjoy all the government provided benefits that you want to take from others! Where do you get that one?

The greater point is that I may have my OPINION influenced by what I read/watch, BUT I don't use sensationalistic labels and repeat them verbatim as if they were my own coined term. The funny thing is RALF is that I never accused you of being a parrot, yet you get all excited when I call out others for it, interesting. You using 2 call names these days? Mr Robot?

He could also do commercials........ how does it go? ..... no wine , before it's time. That would be a good one for him.

fear, by your rants it is just as likely to say you are an avid MSNBC, huffpost, salon, moveon, MMFA, bathtub boy, rachel, ed, young turks, hartmann, malloy, steph miller, rhodes, samuels, and rayburn watcher/listener/reader too; since all of these folks have said everything you spout. What exactly was your point now?

Believe it or not ...Paul Ryan also won awards for legislating excellence in manufacturing. No joke.

Ahahahaha! Ahahahaha!

Paul Ryan - 2011 Churchill Award for Statesmanship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbVJkNXqg...

Fat fingers or head, fear? You missed on so many levels, it is pathetic.

Cmon guys lets get this one to 1000 posts you can do it!!

RLOT listens to Vickki McKenna(Pchynski) -"unionistas" LMAO. Stop stealing terms from talk show hosts!!

RetiredAirForce..... you seem to find it hard to answer these things.
Just show us the "facts" man. Just show us the "facts"!

"where does Ryan get his support....better yet who does he support?"
-
Is that your attempt at discussing issues? Every time you try you fail miserably.

RetiredAirForce...... where does Ryan get his support....better yet who does he support?

Mouse was that the end of your attempted intelligent debate or did you want to start again? Is there a medical reason that keeps you from staying on topic?

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo...... were you talking Walker? Sorry I was asking RAF about Ryan. Sticking your nose in it will make you red and raw.
Your rantings remind me of a video game..... realism empty!!!!

"We already know the Kochs are using him."
-
Speaking of Kochs, get that out of your hand!!

"Fact: Scott Walker lives in Wisconsin.
-
Fact: KochPAC donated $43,000 to Scott Walker"
-
That's it?? Well, your unionistas only have to go around pointing a gun at someone's head at work for nickles and they can get that in less than a day....

Mouse was that the end of you attempted intelligent debate or did you want to start again?

RetiredAirForce.......
Guess you missed it, he was elected Governor of this state. Really???????
You mean public record ...... like the money donated Herman. That kind of record?
You are either slow or bought and paid for.

" What does he do these days?"
-
Guess you missed it, he was elected Governor of this state.

"Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?"
-
What money exactly? Campaign donations? Those are public records you could go read them.

"Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy."
-
LOL. I'm going to channel tommy barrett, "give me a name". Or at the very least provide a link to the police report for the abuse.

"Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?"
-
Would what be the insurance companies? Most are publicly traded, you could be their partner too.

"We already know the Kochs are using him."
-
We? Is there a mouse in your pocket? Specifically what are they "using" him for? Medical experiments? Perhaps their support for him is a vast conspiracy to make your head explode, or maybe distract you long enough to get caught in the rat trap.

....again RAF,.... back to Ryan. What does he do these days?
Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?
Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy.
Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?
We already know the Kochs are using him.

....again RAF,.... back to Ryan. What does he do these days?
Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?
Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy.
Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?
We already know the Kochs are using him.

RAF refer to the previous post, or sounds like you don't like others being as condescending as you always are. Cheers disciple. BTW it does suck here, unlike some of you sheeple I don't buy the flag waving mindlessness, I guess that's what the first amendment was intended for, to fight back against the power, the same way the founders did. I am of thebelief they would puke if they saw this national imperialism and economic crisis we are experiencing, and creating a whole class of the very monarchs they revolted against. The I do find it funny that you call others followers, pot meet kettle.

fear thanks for taking time out from your busy schedule of listing how bad the us rates compared to other nations to provide your much appreciated commentary.

""So is the life of a follower."" You said it RAF, as only a follower could know.

"You call me a "she?" That's interesting. Now how would you know if I am he or a she?"
-
If you want some other personal pronoun used pick one and let me know; he, she, she-he, he-she. The last thing I want to do is offend another OWSDEM faithful.

"Gandalf,poobah and youkillme: Bravo, bravo, bravo."
-
Translation: Thanks for trying to defend my defenseless comments, I have no understanding what the original comments meant anyway, I just took them from what others had said anyway.

So is the life of a follower.

Transmit the message, to the receiver,
hope for an answer some day
I got three passports, a couple of visas,
you don't even know my real name
High on a hillside, the trucks are loading,
everything's ready to roll
I sleep in the daytime, I work in the nightime,
I might not ever get home

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco,
this ain't no fooling around
This ain't no mudd club, or C. B. G. B.,
I ain't got time for that now
Heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit?
Heard about Pittsburgh, P. A.?
You oughta know not to stand by the window
somebody might see you up there
I got some groceries, some peant butter,
to last a couple of days
But I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no
headphones, ain't got no records to play

Why stay in college? Why go to night school?
Gonna be different this time
Can't write a letter, can't send a postcard,
I can't write nothing at all
This ain't no party, this ain't no disco,
this ain't no fooling around
I'd like to kiss you, I'd love you hold you
I ain't got no time for that now

By the way vato, RAF don't answer this one, and we know why.

....again VATO-DON'T KNOW,.... back to Ryan. What does he do these days?
Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?
Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy.
Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?
We already know the Kochs are using him.

RAF: You call me a "she?" That's interesting. Now how would you know if I am he or a she?

Oops.
http://www.schooltube.com/contests/fuel-...
#5

Sorry jsd

Look at your link again, it's not found.

haven't I meant.

What?

We were in the lead just a few minutes ago, but now a school for Iowa took the lead. Please take a moment to go vote for our video to help our kids win.

Jsd

Petition the WEAC for money, they sure can spend money on recall elections.

Let's see if they are compassionate people.

"But it is about the rejection of compassion, sacrifice, love and free-thinking. But the worst trait of her thoughts and writings in my view is the rejection of "we" and "people.""

Compassion?

Hasn't the leftist rebels in this country spent enough compassion on the oppressed, sacrificed enough capital to cure society of its ills, loved enough irresponsibility to no avail, and thought about nanny systems that have only left a negative influence on our society?

Boy did they teach you guys or girls to ask for handouts and free rides.

I know this may not be the right place to post this, but we need your help.
Please help Marshall Middle School students win a pair of tickets to the Superbowl. They are one of five schools in the nation that were chosen as finalists for a video they submitted. The school with the most points by the end of today wins. Please go to http://www.schooltube.com/contests/fuel-...... and VOTE FOR VIDEO #5.

Gandalf: Absolutely fabulous article on the link you posted.

Gandalf,poobah and youkillme: Bravo, bravo, bravo.

RAF, you just created a perfect "a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid."
-
Here's another example that may make the deductive fallacy of your socialist/atheist statement a bit clearer to understand:
-
Fact: Scott Walker lives in Wisconsin.
-
Fact: KochPAC donated $43,000 to Scott Walker.
-
Conclusion: KochPAC donated $43,000 to everyone who lives in Wisconsin.
-
Don't we wish!

RAF, no matter what you say about the beliefs or non-beliefs of CP's, Gandalf, Poobah's, Mouse's or mine, it changes absolutely nothing for Paul Ryan. It doesn't make his proclamations and allegiance to Ayn Rand any different than what they are.
/
Good article, Gandalf. Another in long line of articles exposing the dysfunctional Ayn Rand and her disciples. I would argue that Rand is about more than just the rejection of Christianity and religion, which in itself is a major flaw of her ideology. But it is about the rejection of compassion, sacrifice, love and free-thinking. But the worst trait of her thoughts and writings in my view is the rejection of "we" and "people." So not only is Atlas Shrugged irreconcilable with the idea of religion, but it is irreconcilable with the U.S. Constitution. David Frum (article was written by Weiss) is one of the more reasonable conservatives out there. But he's a compromiser which makes him evil or a genuine socialist in the eyes of today's nutwing Randing GOP.

RAF, the origins of socialism pre-dates Marx by quite a bit. Marx did develop his philosophy of 'scientific socialism' that was bastardized into what became what we know as communism. To say that socialism is based on or rooted in atheism is incorrect.

No one has set any rules. People give their opinions here.

Gandalf guess you never heard of Karl Marx, one of the founding fathers of socialism who was also an atheist. No mater the spin-offs the origination started with atheism. As CP has stated any tenet reaching back to anyone that has held the belief of atheism must also be anti-christian.

Just trying to play by the rules the OWSDEM party faithful set.

RAF, the Socialist Party is not 'founded on atheism', as you state. In fact, the Socialist Party is committed to full freedom of speech, assembly, press, and religion, and to a multi-party system. I'm sure some Socialists are atheists, just like some Republicans and some Democrats are atheists. Ayn Rand (and her followers such as Paul Ryan and Ron Paul) and Christianity do not reconcile. A good recent column about this issue was written by conservative David Frum:

http://www.frumforum.com/ayn-rands-athei...

"You seriously need to get some counseling to deal with the anger you have with yourself and quit projecting that anger on others."

Quit projecting your moral superiority on others.

Put it in a pipe and smoke it little boy or girl.

The postings by CP are anti-christian, she bases her views for America on the theories of atheistic US political parties; socialist and communist. These parties and their theology were founded on atheism. Anyone who believes anything similar to what they do must also be an atheist, as such they are then anti-christian.

"trickle-down thinkers who falsely identify as somehow not being a part of the bottom and continue to support economic policies that keep you there."

You have no idea where I am at.

The Demos need your votes. They enslave you by telling you that you will never amount to anything. They continue to reward mediocrity.

What happened to the African American family in the 70s?

They got destroyed by AFDC. They were shown that hard work does not matter, hence poverty proliferated.

You ARE the bottom, vatoloco. That's the most incredible thing about you conservative trickle-down thinkers who falsely identify as somehow not being a part of the bottom and continue to support economic policies that keep you there.

"Medicare, medicaid and social security do not need to be cut and Paul Ryan knows it. He just won't accept the fact that this country needs more revenue and that the upper 1% need to pay more taxes."

I disagree. The bottom needs to pick it up a notch or two.

You don't reward people by taking from others. That theory has been proven wrong with Johnson Kennedy's Great Society programs.

Somehow I think RAF and RLOT must be twins. LOL

I just love garyprimer's posts.

Ryan openly states he believes in "every man for himself" and objectivism. Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged advocated "selfishness as a virtue." Mr. Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee, by his own admission.

This article is about Ryan, remember, the guy who bases his plan for America on the theories of an atheist who believes in every man for himself, objectivism, oh, and the poor and the needy don't deserve love.

Medicare, medicaid and social security do not need to be cut and Paul Ryan knows it. He just won't accept the fact that this country needs more revenue and that the upper 1% need to pay more taxes.

Yep. Totally nuts. I wake up every day wondering why people like you are worth defending, beazulbub. Sometimes, I don't think that it's worth it. But then again, I can always curl up in a blanket on a day of leave like today and slowly realize that at least I do it for my family. And no matter how much it hurts, that is worth it. You might not appreciate anything, but at least my family and friends do.
-
Sorry, was that trolling???? Happy Veteran's day.
-
If you do nothing else today, find a WWII veteran, shake his or her hand, and thank them for their service. They are passing away at a rate of about 1000 per day now. The were, and will always be, the greatest generation. Honor them.

While I was institutionalized, my brain was studied exhaustively in the guise of mental health. I was interrogated, x-rayed, studied thoroughly. Then, everything about me was entered into a computer where they created a model of my mind.

Then, using the computer model, they generated every thought I could possibly have in the next, say ten years, which they then filtered through a probability matrix to determine everything I was going to do in that period.

"There is no compassion in Ryan's plan. It is based on theories of an ATHEIST"
-
Again with this nonsense CP? Most of what you believe is based on the principles of the socialist and communist political parties in our country, both based on atheism. Do you really have so little thoughts of your own positions that you don't understand echoing these nonsensical remarks ridicule your own belief system since it too is based on athism derived from the socialist and communist parties in this country, something you CLAIM to be against? Clueless.

You might want to read the idiom again about throwing stones while in a living in a glass house.

Robot Lord is nuts, please don't feed the trolls. Thanks.

"Robot Lord, wake up! I've spent more than forty years protesting against wars - including, I'm sure, the wars that YOU NOW CRITICIZE after having served in them! Don't you get the irony in that?"
-
Yep. I do. You have no clue what we go through. And yet, you do nothing. See Smedley Butler's speech. 1935. That speech is gold. That is what we should do, should be, should aspire to. And yet...............we keep electing photogenic whelps. We've been doing it since 1960. WAKE UP YOURSELF!!! THINK, for yourself for once. Read books.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new...

"Do it for your children before they think they owe you something."
-
That is the most unintelligent thing you've eve said. Kudos. Case closed.

Robot Lord, wake up! I've spent more than forty years protesting against wars - including, I'm sure, the wars that YOU NOW CRITICIZE after having served in them! Don't you get the irony in that? Don't blame me for the choices you have made in your life and the consequences that followed. You seriously need to get some counseling to deal with the anger you have with yourself and quit projecting that anger on others.

Poobah, I think you're only confusing R_Lord more than he already is, and I'm afraid I'm only adding to it here.********************** RLOT wrote -- "I'm going to watch him have some fun, and try not to think about how you want to destroy his future and make him go to war like I did because of unadulterated ignorance and selfishness." FOLLOWED BY "My choice was to serve, not because I wanted to, but because I had to. I owed that to my father, and to all those that had gone before me." FOLLOWED BY "And by the way, if my son wants to serve his country, it won't be because I made him do it. His choice. I hope he never has to take up arms and defend this country. What was your excuse, by the way?"
*******
R_Lord, seek psychiatric help immediately and if you're already on the couch, find a new shrink before it's too late. Don't do anything for me only to complain that you did it because I'm obviously too stupid to understand your unadulterated ignorance and selfishness. Do it for your children before they think they owe you something.

And by the way, if my son wants to serve his country, it won't be because I made him do it. His choice. I hope he never has to take up arms and defend this country. What was your excuse, by the way?

"I'm not the threat to your son."
-
Yes you are. People like you, who are uninformed, who don't know anything about history whatsoever, send people like me to war, and then wave flags when we win and say how much you support the troops when we return. When you write things like you have done, Poobah, I question that. I really don't think you have any clue what it's like to leave your family, your friends, and then go somewhere where dead people are just something you just walk past and try not to step on. I don't think you even have a clue. And I have so MANY friends that have seen so much worse. Like R. He was blown out of his landing craft on Iwo Jima (yeah, he's still alive), hit his life belt, which flipped him upside-down because he was top-heavey with ammo, had to cut everything off to survive, climbed up on the beach with nothing but dungarees, and reequipped himself with the stuff left by dead Marines. Happy Birthday, Marine Corps. OoooRAH!!! Don't talk to me about love, Poobah.

Happy Veterans Day, Poohbear. We do it for people like you. People we don't even like, because they don't even know what we fight for. We do it anyways. And you think we are stupid because we do it. You and I wouldn't even be here, perhaps, if it were not for our ancestors who took up arms and defended this nation from our enemies. If you don't respect anything I've done, at least respect what those who have gone before me have done. They gave you the right to incessantly bitch about things you don't even understand.

Robot Lord, I never said I hated the military. I believe in a strong military, but I think our military has been sent into war too often. And I'm glad you reminded me of a conversation we had eleven days or so ago. It went like this:
-
October 30, 2011 at 8:32 p.m.
Robot Lord said, "And to be honest, right now, I enjoy my eight year old son playing some dance game on the wii right now, I'm going to watch him have some fun, and try not to think about how you want to destroy his future and make him go to war like I did because of unadulterated ignorance and selfishness."
-
October 30, 2011 at 9:04 p.m.
poobah said, "Robot_Lord_Of_Tokyo, you've made frequent mention of your military service and your family's long history of military service. I've been an activist against wars since the late 1960's. Your son is surely in more danger from any expectations that he may feel for continuing your family's long history of military service than he is from people like myself who have spent their entire adult lives protesting war. Teach your children well, their father's hell did slowly go by."
-
And your comment, eleven days later, at 7:20pm this evening:
-
Robot Lord said, "My choice was to serve, not because I wanted to, but because I had to. I owed that to my father, and to all those that had gone before me."
-
I hope you do everything in your power to prevent what I had warned you against. And that is having your son grow up feeling the same expectations to serve as you just described that you had. I'm not the threat to your son.

No, Mouse. I'm Slippery Jim. Google it, you will get it then. Never met RAF or really talked to him much. Sent him a message or two in the past, a long time ago.

"Until then, quit whining about the circumstances of your life and the choices you've made."
-
Your compassion is overwhelming me. Stop it.
-
Pooh. "He confuses my compassion for people as a weakness of character that can be intimidated into silence."
-
Um.......ok.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo....... ANOTHER RAF COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK. I.I.I. i DID. I SAW.
Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo...... i bet!

Classic poobah

You whine and then you call out others that they whine.

Pathetic.

So, you admit that you simply hate the miltary, and think we are all a bunch of whiners then...... illuminating. How compassionate of you. I tip my helmet.

"let's see the link to it. Until then, quit whining about the circumstances of your life and the choices you've made."

Tell the occupy movement that.

Robot Lord said, "Why don't you show all the good people what I was responding to?"
-
First, I'm glad you admitted to sending that. I thought you'd try weaseling out of it like everything else. I have no clue what you were responding to with that e-mail! Surely no e-mail because I have NEVER sent you an e-mail. If it's some comment I made on this site, then let's see the link to it. Until then, quit whining about the circumstances of your life and the choices you've made.

I didn't know that you loved me that much, Poo. Yeah, I said that to you. And I meant it. I said one bad word. It wasn't like it was prolific with profanity. Why don't you show all the good people what I was responding to?
-
I make no bones about what I've been part of and have done. I don't like telling people what I've seen. It does, however, make a point most people don't understand. You would not have liked to have seen it. My choice. I know. I signed the contract. Think about that. I didn't do that because I had to. I have never lived in a trailer. I'm the product of middle-class parents living a normal middle-class life, because my father worked for a living. When I was born, my parents paid the bill. I wore hand-me-downs until I was 14. I had no truck with that. I was a kid. You can't hold my up-bringing against me. I had no choice. I could have been much more than I have been in my life. I decided that wasn't for me. I went to college. I left because most kids in my classes were mooks. I left. I joined the Marine Corps. (Happy Birthday Brothers and Sisters, btw.) My choice was to serve, not because I wanted to, but because I had to. I owed that to my father, and to all those that had gone before me. When you walk in Arlington Cemetery, you think about things like that. White sticks from the Civil War on up. It is intimidating. And if you are not humbled by that, you are blind and dumb. Anyway, if you do anything tomorrow, find a WWII vet and shake their hand. I did funeral honors last Saturday for one. An honor, and a priveledge. They ARE the greatest generation.
-
And thanks for reminding us all of that, poo.

vatoloco, since you seem so willing to express an opinion and get in the middle of this, here's just one of the e-mails from Robot Lord. I replaced his profanity with "****" so as not to violate the Gazette's profanity policy. Maybe you can better understand now why I was sensitive. I have been a peace activist for decades. It is not people like me who kill people and I will not shut up. Robot Lord should be thanking me for speaking up in protest against the wars that have so affected his life. He himself now speaks against those wars in multiple comments on this site. My only regret is that my voice and the voices of millions of other protesters weren't strong enough to prevent those wars and spare him and other veterans and their families the horrors of war.
-
Hello,

The user Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo sent the following message to you via GazetteXtra.com:

==============================

You have no idea what my life is like, or what I've been through since 1990. You have every right to question it by being an American, but you have no right to question me on a personal level without being able to look me in the eye.
-
I've seen a lot of dead people. The first time, only five of ours. Dozens of theirs. They layed on the ground where they were killed mostly. I didn't do it. Never saw it in Afghanistan. Too clinical. Surgical. You have no idea what it is like to see people blown to pieces. You also have no idea what it's like to know why that actually happened to someone, so shut the **** up. You don't know history, and you don't have a clue about politics that kill people. People like you kill people.

==============================

Please do not reply to this e-mail message. To send Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo a response, visit this Web page:

http://gazettextra.com/users/Robot_Lord_...

I know. I spelled "Tralfamadore" on porpoise to see if I could bait one of them into bringing it up. I like hypocrites. They are so hypocritical. And they probably don't have a clue what I am talking about, don't understand the sarcasm.....nothing. Just like poo, a disingenuous housewife from Shirland, IL.

I know. I spelled "Tralfamadore" on porpoise to see if I could bait one of them into bringing it up. I like hypocrites. They are so hypocritical. And they probably don't have a clue what I am talking about, don't understand the sarcasm.....nothing. Just like poo, a disingenuous housewife from Shirland, IL.

Robot

Those liberals sure are sensitive.

"If you think Robot Lord's comments here are a bit much, you should see the e-mails he has sent as recently as yesterday to my personal e-mail account via the Gazette's user profile web page."
-
Really?????? Are you from Tralfamdore?

Put a few drops in for spark to play with. I know he loves word games.

http://campaignmoney.org/blog/2011/05/02...
Now voto this mibht help you....... of course it might help jog Herman Ryans memory too!

"....anyway vato,.... back to Ryan. What does he do these days?"

I don't expect handouts like you do mouse.

You expect your politicians to tell you what to do.

"Ryan will be gone soon, never to return."
-
Dare you to hold your breath. Double-dog dare ya.

....anyway vato,.... back to Ryan. What does he do these days?
Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?
Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy.
Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?
We already know the Kochs are using him.

"Republicans consider compassion for people as a weakness of character in others."
-
You are confusing "compassion" with "stupidity" in this case.
-
I'm a Libertarian, by the way, though I am usually forced to vote for Republicans because the Democrat candidates are Socialist whack-jobs with brown-shirt union thug backing. They don't make them like Proxmire anymore, DO they? First senator I ever voted for. Good man and one with common sense. He was compasionate, too. But not stupid at the same time.

Mouse - Nice cover up. It would be believable if every single one of your posts didn't follow the same pointless ramble and practically every other poster on here didn't call you out.

spark...... knew you would fall for it.
This was a test of the broadcast system..... in the event of a silly response from spark, just give him a out of place typo. Works better than a mouse trap, spark just can't resist.

now how you go spell mess?
-
I feel like I'm listening to an old Godzilla movie.

Texax? LOL. It just keeps getting better with you.

spark...... now how go you spell mess.... "BUSH"?
Now go play on the fence Texax style.

concernedperson - I know you and mouse are best friends. Yes I misspelled a word. Why don't you go read 100% of Mouses posts and tell me how much sense they make. Point is, if you want some credibility when you post, make a little sense. That doesn't include childish names and endless fictional comparisons.
-
By the way, your first issue is you think politicians (left or right) are compassionate. Keep pulling the sheets over your head. If they truly gave a rip, we wouldn't be in the biggest mess we've seen.

Spark: Are you the spelling police? Maybe you should look at your own comments and proofread those before looking at others' comments.

There is no compassion in Ryan's plan. It is based on theories of an ATHEIST, Ayn Rand. He openly states he believes in "every man for himself" and objectivism. Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged advocated "selfishness as a virtue." There is nothing Christian about this plan. It is too bad you can't open your eyes and see the writing on the wall. Ryan will be gone soon, never to return. People do not like his un-Christian plan for America. How can anyone call themselves a Christian who promotes this kind of garbage?

Mouse - You make zero sense. Its actually extremely comical. Keep up the good work. As long as you think you make sense, that's all that matters.

I say this to you Mouse. You should have ""spend"" more time paying attention in class and less time blaming the system for failing you.
Come on Spark..... another Perry answer!!!!!!
Before you knock..... check your knockers.
By the way I see you are still on de - fence.

Mouse - You asked a question. You obviously can't go find the answer that the very same internet you use can provide. I thought I would point you in the right direction. After all, if you knew where to find the information, why did you ask?
-
It's very apparent that somewhere down the road, the education system failed you. I say this because your responses are equivalent to that of a 6th graders level. Come to think of it, there are many 6th graders that could stay on topic and have a more intelligent debate than yourself.
-
Rather, you respond with rants about women etc that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. You stereotype people you don't even know and accuse them of being these awful people because of their political beliefs.
-
I say this to you Mouse. You should have spend more time paying attention in class and less time blaming the system for failing you.

Then again spark your like Perry and Kane.... suffering memory loss on issues and women, when convenient.

spark...... are you spokes person for RAF?
Anyway..... now you stuck it in...... maybe you could list Ryans cotributors who buy Ryans lobby services, and plus pray tell what sent him over the edge with the likes of the Kochs?

Mouse - You can go look up his or any other politicians contributors anywhere. He is paid a salary like every other politician in the Country.
-
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/s...

Cp

You mean that same compassion that Janet Reno and the Democrats used when they yanked Elian Gonzalez from his relative's house and sent him back to Communist Cuba?

....again RAF,.... back to Ryan. What does he do these days?
Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?
Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy.
Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?
We already know the Kochs are using him.

concernedperson - You are going to need a big shovel to get out of that hole. You must feel the same way about Obamacare which cuts half a billion from medicare. Hmmm, Democrats just don't have christ in their heart. Give me a break.

"If you do not have the love of Christ in your heart, you do not know what compassion is. You can look at Ryan's plan. His plan shows how much compassion Republicans have."

Planned Parenthood shows a lot of compassion by advising to end innocent fetuses. One of Obama's biggest supporters.

Poobah: This is true. Republicans consider compassion for people as a weakness of character in others. That is because Republicans do not know what compassion for others is. If you do not have the love of Christ in your heart, you do not know what compassion is. You can look at Ryan's plan. His plan shows how much compassion Republicans have.

Mouse any time you want to discuss real issues feel free to chime in.

....anyway RAF,.... back to Ryan. What does he do these days?
Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?
Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy.
Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?
We already know the Kochs are using him.

Did he come to your house and make you read them?

If you think Robot Lord's comments here are a bit much, you should see the e-mails he has sent as recently as yesterday to my personal e-mail account via the Gazette's user profile web page. He confuses my compassion for people as a weakness of character that can be intimidated into silence. I hope the Gazette can find a way to prevent people from using their facilities to send obnoxious and intimidating e-mails.

Robot, your street creed has just increased by ten. CP thinks you have zero credibility.

Great Job! Well Done !

Did you hear about that Paul Ryan?
He wants to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

Robot: Your attacks against others on here is getting to be a bit much. I see you doing the exact same thing that you are accusing others of. Do you not realize that? I see your credibility as zero, the same as you have told to others.

....anyway, back to Ryan. What does he do these days?
Plus where does he get his money from, besides the taxpayer?
Someone besides the taxpayer pays him to beat up the old and needy.
Would it be the insurance companies... the silent partners?
We already know the Kochs are using him.

Robot-Lord-of-Tokyo: Peace and love to you to.

"You may think I'm worth nothing, but I have enough assets that I'll never have to work again"- Poohfake
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Ok, Give them there assets to the poor. You are either a socialist or a liar. Get a friggen life. Live for something, not anything. At least have a concious thought at the end that actually means something.

"Robot Lord, I prefer talking about issues, not personalities. But your comment begs a response of a personal nature. I delayed starting college so I could earn my tuition instead of taking out student loans"
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It's turns, Clarice. I quit college, and joined the Marine Corps to give back to my country what they gave to me. 1983, Clarice. And then I went back to college. Terns.

"You may think I'm worth nothing, but I have enough assets that I'll never have to work again and I have a large circle of family and friends who love me and I love them. I feel very fortunate."
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Anachronism. I don't even need to go back to some of the things that you said to not only me, but to others, to call pretty much of it hypocrisy. I'm really sorry that I really have to bring that up, but you have no street cred right now. You just gave that all up, or you just lied your a&& off.

And poo, if your circle of friends include such dignitaries with a last name such as:

Graff
Helgeson
Gilbertson

You get the idea. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. I do.

Poohbear, I could pick your last post apart piece by piece in support of free enterprise. I will not, however. You said it all. What I don't understand is where your head is right now, because it doesn't match what you said. Unless there's something you are not telling us, as to why you feel so guilty about your life.

Wow. Nice comeback Dkushnikov. I hope you have a good night of blue fisting.

poohbah: I commend you on your success. Don't you know that when we don't agree with some people here, we are communists and socialists. That's the only way they know how to respond when backed into a corner or if they don't have a valid comeback. It's called child's play. Well, they can call me whatever. Doesn't necessarily make it true. But I'll play along. Oh, by the way, OH HAPPY DAY!!!! :)

Robot Lord, I prefer talking about issues, not personalities. But your comment begs a response of a personal nature. I delayed starting college so I could earn my tuition instead of taking out student loans and then worked all through college, graduating with a degree in electrical engineering. I graduated with no debt.
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I then worked for twelve years or so for one company prior to starting two businesses, which I sold in the late 1990's and retired while in my late 40's. I haven't "worked" since then. I do spend time volunteering with various community organizations now, but I don't consider that work - I love helping people. And I had loved every day of going to my offices - I couldn't wait to get there in the morning. And yes I had many, many employees -- all of them made way more than the industry average salaries, two months of vacation per year, full benefits. It was hiring great people and treating them as I would my brothers and sisters, along with treating our customers as we would want to be treated and having a passion for helping our community. You may think I'm worth nothing, but I have enough assets that I'll never have to work again and I have a large circle of family and friends who love me and I love them. I feel very fortunate.
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If you continue to experience nausea, I'd suggest you buy some good anti-emetic medication.

You know what you are worth poobear? Nothing. You are a product of the entitlement culture. That's called communism and socialism in most circles. I truly hope that nobody employs you now, because if they actually did, that would make you the world's biggest hypocrite. Your only recourse is to employ yourself if you really want to live by your dream. But then, of course, you might become sucessful and want to expand.....and employ people.
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Seriously. Mooks like you make me puke. You have no common sense. You just blah blah blah over and over again. You have no motivation other than to suck the life out of people who actually work for a living, and have been trying to make this country work for the last 50 years since people who DO NOT want to work showed up.

Honestly RAF, I had a good laugh. Thank you.

RetiredAirForce:
"Push here -->*<-- for your victim card."
Sorry, but I can't. It won't let me. :(

vatoloco, I'm sure you're one of those workers that your employer wishes they could pay what you're worth. But the minimum wage law won't let them.

Just like minimum wage laws, that's all they think you will ever earn.

Nice huh?

Oh..that one hurt you I see.....

The truth shall set you free....

vatolico said, "Free yourslf from plantation politics. They want you to stay in your place because you are not worthy to be competent. They need your votes to further their communist agenda of taking good care of you. Open your eyes. Do want to talk about enslaving now?"
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That's not a bad start on describing the 1%. Keep working at it and report back to the political committee at tomorrow's general assembly. Thanks.

""enslaving the 99%". You bet! What better way to keep everyone submissive and under control while the top 1% rule us."

They got you right where they want you, at the bottom.

Suit yourself.

"how it is enslaving the 99% while enriching the 1%. Tonight it was Ohio, Maine and Mississippi's"

You must take pleasure in wearing the liberal ball and chain.

Free yourslf from plantation politics. They want you to stay in your place because you are not worthy to be competent. They need your votes to further their communist agenda of taking good care of you. Open your eyes.

Do want to talk about enslaving now?

CP the line starts on your far left, followers to the rear of the line.

RAF, lighten up a little. O Happy Day! O Happy Day today and yesterday!

poo why the silence on the Ohio measure on mandated health insurance?

"while the top 1% rule us"
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Push here -->*<-- for your victim card.

"enslaving the 99%". You bet! What better way to keep everyone submissive and under control while the top 1% rule us.

But it's ok for others?

RetiredAirForce: I am not the one who said :"I refuse to take a paycut."

"The Senate President of Arizona and author of the state’s hard-line laws against illegal immigration lost a recall election seen as a bellwether on “extreme” politics." http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-09...
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The good news just keeps rolling in. Good to have confirmation of the fact that the illegal immigration fear mongering conservatives are an extreme minority even in Arizona. Let's hope this vote helps to put an end to the Rock County Voter Education Forum's sponsorship of fear mongering self-aggrandizing individuals.

Funniest comment I have read so far, "enslaving the 99%". Thanks for the laugh!

youkillme single payer is a way to deal with it, but it is far from the best way. Look around in our current society to see how single payer has worked when tried, public schools being just one example. The costumers, parents and students, have almost no say in their service. The system has decided what will be provided and what won't be; there is little to no options. The only second opinion is removing the student to place them is a school of choice, normally out of pocket and not covered by the "single payer" plan. I don’t want that for my healthcare, no thank-you.

I was wondering who'd be the first one to jump all over that one, youkillme. And thanks to RAF for highlighting two of the issues we face because of rampant corporatism -- out of control healthcare and education costs. The time for not-for-profit, single-payer, national healthcare and tuition-free public college education is here.

dkush21 said "Ahh, you must be one of the privileged. "Maybe then you can feel the real pain that millions of people are dealing with today." "Is your job, if any, so secure that you can say that? And if you do have a job, what's to say that you may not lose it and have to find another one at a lot less than what you are making now or maybe even minimum wage."
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What makes you think I haven't felt what others have? What makes you think my pay has only increased? The problem with OWSDEM's is their continued greed thinking others have greener pastures then they do. Get off your pitty party wagon and do your best and you might be rewarded for it.

"The largest reason medical costs go up is because they can, there is no competition to drive them down. The majority of folks purchase a program that provides payments." ------------- Since there is no competition, what difference does it make besides taking the profit out, who is the insurance provider? We can have 6 private companies collecting subsidies off the government OR we have six different agencies in government providing the insurance. It's all the same. One nation. One private health care sector. Take out the profit skimming insurance middle-man and you lower insurance costs. That's easy. But our problem is lowering private sector health care costs. Again. One nation of customers and one health care industry.

CONcernedLESS stated "what facts? You have provided none, only assertions"
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You could read this information for yourself, but we both know you don't want to know the truth.

Here is the conclusion from the latested actuarial report (from the trustees) on SS and medicare: "Conclusion: Projected long-run program costs for both Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable under currently scheduled financing, and will require legislative corrections if disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers are to be avoided. The financial challenges facing Social Security and Medicare should be addressed soon. If action is taken sooner rather than later, more options and more time will be available to phase in changes so that those affected can adequately prepare."

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html...

fear stated " If healthcare costs weren't so incredibly over-inflated the 3 to 1 ratio would mean nothing. The fact that our free-market healthcare system has driven prices so high is what makes the system so unsustainable. Health care costs rose in the neighborhood of 200%!! How can any program keep up with cost increases like that? Do aspirin cost 200% more?"
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The largest reason medical costs go up is because they can, there is no competition to drive them down. The majority of folks purchase a program that provides payments. If this were a consumer driven system more like vision and dental care there would be competitive pricing instead of competitive facilities. Interesting you bring up the cost of aspirin, when you can shop by price it helps keep all costs lower. In a society where consumers look for goods and services to include homes by what the cost is why is it our society has accepted being treated with no idea of the cost until after the fact? Why do doctors, medical facilities, and hospitals never post fees except for co-pays? Until consumers demand changes the escalation will never stop.

A perfect example of this same pricing game is performed at universities across the nation. Prices are set according to what people can get for aide, loans, and grants. Potential students are bombarded with ways to "help" pay for the cost...yet the escalation in prices runs nearly on par with medical costs. They are both priced for what they can get not what people can afford!

Thank you Walker, Ryan, Boehner, Mitchell, Kasich, Americans For Prosperity, Koch brothers, the Tea Party and all the other tax and spend, trickle-up conservatives who have finally awakened the great sleeping giant -- the American middle class! And thank you to the dedicated and diverse participants that make up the Occupy movement across the world for increasing awareness about corporatism and how it is enslaving the 99% while enriching the 1%. Tonight it was Ohio, Maine and Mississippi's turn and they said "NO!" to the corrupt corporate conservative cronies. Now it's right back here to Wisconsin to reclaim state government of the people, by the people and for the people.

You have to LOVE Kasich using the tools rhetoric in his video, should tell you all you need to know about anything Scott Walker proposes. If I were running against him, I would use THIS video to show Walkers lack of independent thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkEU8H_m_...

Wonder if this is a preview of things to come. Kasich eating some humble pie. At least he gets to keep his job. There is a bill on the table now proposed by some democratic legislators that would restore collective bargaining, I would suggest that the republicans take it and Walker sign it, unless they really want to keep their jobs.
This Ohio defeat for Kasich is also a very pivotal one that could have very large effects on the next presidential election. If Obama Wins Ohio, how could he lose the election? Probably won't happen. Time for compromise people, this partisan garbage was soundly defeated tonight in Ohio, and it is coming to Wisconsin, these people will rue the day that they attacked workers rights. This is coming from a NON-union guy.

More folks from Ohio voted against Kasich's bill tonight than voted for him in 2010!!
Also the people of Mississippi rejected an anti-abortion bill!! That tried to define the beginning of life by a referendum, in the deep south this passes? Holy Cow!!
These are pretty significant losses for the Republicans tonight. Wonder how Scott Walker will react.

I cannot wait till 2012. Bye Bye Ryan! I will not vote for you. I'm too poor to vote GOP!

The conscience of the Republican Party? I bet not one right leaning person will say that Rush is wrong for saying stuff like this and really mean it.
.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/rush-limb...

Or are you retired like your name RetiredAirForce. Who pays your retirement benefits?

O Happy Day! O Happy Day! O Happy Day!
The people are speaking loud and clear.

Maybe then you can feel the real pain that millions of people are dealing with today.

RAF: Is your job, if any, so secure that you can say that? And if you do have a job, what's to say that you may not lose it and have to find another one at a lot less than what you are making now or maybe even minimum wage.

RAF:
"dkush21 thanks for the info, I'm not moving to take a pay cut."
Ahh, you must be one of the privileged.

Thank you Ohio and Maine for continuing the fight against corporatism that Wisconsin started by recalling two senators. It's truly a proud night for all Americans. Now it's back to Wisconsin to finish the job here. Solidarity!

Way to go Ohio! Way to go Maine! O Happy Day!

You are so right myviews. People are telling the world that they do not like having their rights taken away!

Walker will be recalled. Ryan will be replaced.

...and Nancy “guilty until proven innocent” Grace just got kicked off DWTS! What a night! :)

...and AP called the Maine vote to reinstate same day voter registration - it will return. Something tells me that people do not like having their rights taken away. Way to go Maine also!

BTW Ohioans set an example for us to follow tonight, rejecting Kasich law on collective bargaining resoundingly.
Too bad we cannot just vote on act 10 Scott could keep his job. Unfortunately for him, he will be recalled for his own misjudgement and over reach. Way to go Ohio, victory for middle class workers!!

RAF- If healthcare costs weren't so incredibly over-inflated the 3 to 1 ratio would mean nothing. The fact that our free-market healthcare system has driven prices so high is what makes the system so unsustainable. Health care costs rose in the neighborhood of 200%!! How can any program keep up with cost increases like that? Do aspirin cost 200% more?
I know you like fact check , found this one for you on the deceit by the GOP on Obummer care which I am opposed to:
http://factcheck.org/2010/11/the-truth-a...

RAF writes --"Keeping your head in the party sand thinking all is okay is a sure way to be surprised when reality hits you in the backside."-------------------------- I thought I heard it all, but a Ryan supporter accusing his critics for party thinking? Nevermind that over the past twelve years he voted 92+ percent partyline and that he is a member of the GOP's hyper-partisan "Young Guns" and is the Republican Party's Presidential fund-raiser director. I suppose you only vote for the person and never the party and support Paul Ryan ...let me guess ...for the person he is? funny.

RAF said, "Keeping your head in the party sand thinking all is okay is a sure way to be surprised when reality hits you in the backside."
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RAF, there's no need to post things intended for yourself. Maybe you should buy a journal for that. If the journal doesn't work and you still feel the need to post comments to yourself, it would be nice if you could preface the comments with "RAF note to self:" so the rest of us can skip over them. Thanks!

You don't think it is a problem when Ryan's own church questions him on his un-Christian plan? No, you have your head in the sand.

RAF, what facts? You have provided none, only assertions.

dkush21 thanks for the info, I'm not moving to take a pay cut.

". His voucher will do nothing to making things better for seniors. It will create out of pocket expenses they cannot afford."
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In typical OWSDEM party echoing of other peoples information you neglected to mention the very reason behind it. The current system is NOT sustainable. When Medicare was signed into law in the late 60's there were close to 20 people paying in to every 1 person collecting. Today that number is 3 to 1, and in less than 20 years that number will be 2 to 1. There is not enough money left in the ponzi program to pay for it. Through the years of band-aid fixes politicians have not kept there fingers off the revenue stream long enough to plan for the inevitable. This all could have been planned for in advance, as was warned countless times, but never happened under failed leadership in the two party system. Keeping your head in the party sand thinking all is okay is a sure way to be surprised when reality hits you in the backside.

"Under Ryan's plan, there will be more poor people"
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So far under obama's plan there are more poor people, more people collecting food stamps, more people unemployed, more people unemployed and not collecting unemployment, and more with no "insurance". But don't let your OWSDEM party thinking get in the way of facts.

poo said " RAF, I'm glad you brought up the issue. I'm sure you both follow Pat Robertson closely and heard his latest "
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Imagine that wrong again...

Why would they do that? Don't they know that religion and politics don't mix? Maybe one day they will learn that being human and religious doesn't mix????

USA TODAY:
Column: You can't reconcile Ayn Rand and Jesus.

A consortium of evangelical and Catholic groups scolded Ryan

Here's the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/for...

In case anyone hasn't seen this on Jack Abramhoff and may happen to be interested.... Why our elected representatives can sell our country and not be tried for crimes againt our nation is beyond me.
.
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/60_minutes/...

I'm curious, anybody know what Paul Ryans brother does for a living. I find it interesting in this economic climate the rational to pull your twin children out of school for a year to tour Europe. Must be nice, 1% I'm guessing?

try to remember dkush, these people hate factual arguments, how dare you challenge their freedom to oppress!! Anyone that keeps this system of plutocratic oligarchy strong and keeps the majority down is a friend. Anyone that posts factual evidence of why we are failing is just a dirty liberal drummer, didn't you know?
Intelligence by some is determined by the amount of labels you can paste on them. No matter how ridiculous they may be, and facts never seem to matter.(see who won Iraq thread)

YW :)
Also please watch this.
http://news.yahoo.com/remake-america--in...
Our wages do not keep up with inflation. Isn't it a shame that we HAVE TO make less in wages to please corporations so they can make more money at our expense.

Thank you dkush for the link. That is wonderful information. It is no wonder that people in Canada would not think of ever moving to the U.S.

It is time for the Republicants to wake up and smell the "roses" or "coffee" whichever they choose.

This is only a partial list-they list also by profession:
Average hourly wages of employees (monthly)(Canada)
15 years and over 13.75
25 to 54 years 24.85
55 years and over 24.52

Vatoloco:"A better question is why are you here?, since you seem to hate everything about this country.
Check out Canada's tax rates."

If your going to post their tax rates, why don't you post their average wages too?

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labr69...

BTW RAF , I am happy to contribute to your pension fund, becase you deserve every penny. I also would fight against any stupid political movement that would try to take it from you, im all seriousness.
I am all for cuts in military spending, not including pensions. I am also all for the elimination of no-bid contracts, which eliminates the very competition that you all seem to treasure.

Vato- you are just in Lala land over and over, when presented with facts and have your own labels flipped on you then you run for the hills. Your positions support socialism by your definition. Just YOUR type of socialism.

While the United States has in recent years had a large trade deficit, Canada had for several decades maintained a trade surplus, which turned to a deficit since 2006.
So tell me how free trade works again?

Canada ranks higher than the U.S. in statistics such as life expectancy (80.22 years in Canada versus 77.85 in the U.S.) and infant mortality (4.75 Canadian deaths per 1000 versus 6.50 in the States). Both countries rank highly with 99% literacy rates. The United States has more major consumer goods per capita than Canada.
STop the comparisons, Canada is a FAR better run nation, top to bottom. Do they pay higher taxes? Sure. Are the healthier? YEP , are they as well educated? YEP. Is their unemployment rate lower? YEP.
Personally I would love to live in Canada, and have contemplted moving, unfortunately I have too many obligations keeping me here. That being said, we as a nation should be wise and actually look at other models that work, be it health care or trade and realize that we dont have all the answers. Labelling everything as some kind of way to score political points , without seeing wisdom in other systems is stupid.

Under Ryan's plan, there will be more poor people, seniors unable to afford their healthcare, and they will die. His voucher will do nothing to making things better for seniors. It will create out of pocket expenses they cannot afford.

Fear gave you facts, RAF. But in typical fashion, you choose to ignore anything that does not agree with your opinion. All your questions have been answered more than once.

You still have not answered myviews question. You expect others to answer questions, but you do not.

vatoloco and RAF, I'm glad you brought up the issue. I'm sure you both follow Pat Robertson closely and heard his latest -- a warning to the Republican party that it has become way too extreme to win a Presidential election. It must be really troubling to both if you when Pat "Gays Cause Hurricanes" Robertson is the voice of sanity for the Republican Party.

Cp

Are we there yet? Your party has been trying to move things forward since FDR was in office.

Where is the exit strategy on poverty?

CP is this your party?

We support the right of any number of interested workers in a workplace to form a union with no limits on the subjects upon which employees and unions may bargain with employers.
We support the right of public sector workers to strike.
We call for recognizing a union based on cards signed.
We call for the democratic control of all unions by their membership, and independent of employer domination and influence.
We support the right of all workers to engage in collective action and self-representation regardless of union status.
We support militant, united labor action including hot cargo agreements, and boycotts, factory committees, secondary and sympathy strikes, sit-down strikes, general strikes, and ultimately the expropriation of workplaces.
We support the right of workers to hold shop meetings on company premises, elect their immediate supervisors, and administer health and safety programs through the formation of shop councils.
We call for the repeal of the Hatch Act and the Taft-Hartley Act, the "hot cargo" provision of the Landrum-Griffin Act, and all so-called "right-to-work" laws.
We call for the same benefits for part-time workers as for full-time workers.
We call for increased health and safety regulation of business, and for increasing the size and enforcement power of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).
We support the creation of a fund for workers which would pay a worker’s full wages and health insurance as well as necessary educational and/or retraining costs if that worker loses a job due to environmental transition, down-sizing, corporate dismantlement, or capital flight.

CP is this your party? "Our party fights for jobs and economic security, a decent and rising standard of living, peace, justice, equality, a sustainable environment, gay rights, health care, education, affordable housing, the needs of seniors, democracy, and a fulfilling life for everyone"

Cp

We all know what progressive means. Ask Hillary Clinton.

Mouse, good point, with your "overpaid courier" statement.

To me the Republican Party is the neanderthal party. They are taking America backward, not forward.

"At the same time, some contractors spent significant amounts on political campaigns and lobbying, the report said. The 737 largest contractors examined in the report spent $214 million in campaign contributions through political action committees, s"

No different than education communist organizations/unions paying to gain political power, forget about the idea that they care about educating the kids.

A better question is why are you here?, since you seem to hate everything about this country.

Check out Canada's tax rates.

http://www.tax-services.ca/2011-income-t...

"My question is Vato if you are so anti socialist, why do you live in a socialist nation?"

Thank goodness we have not fallen prey to total socialism like Europe who is very close to collapsing financially. Is that what you want for America?

We are not that far behind. Porkulus after porkulus is not getting anything done.

Didn't Obama learn from the New Deal programs?

They don't work. Period.

We still have millions of voters who are resisting the process of utter and complete taxpayer exsanguination

I do believe there will never be enough data for RAF, not now, not ever.

Poobah: You are correct about your observation of RAF on the losing end of a debate.

Yes, you could get called back RAF, pending age restrictions or pending disability.

First you have to be in something, before you retire from it.
Ryan and RAF seem similar in the fact that they both act the parts (only).
Ryan acts like a politician, when in fact his position in the Republican party is bought and paid for by Koch dough.... just another form of buying your space on the floor of Wall St. (over paid courier)

myviews2, RAF probably does his own tax returns and applies his inflation formula (Y = 2Y) and a few other equations he hasn't shared with us yet.

Very good RAF, now sound out the next word -- ta, ta, toooo, -- come on, you can do it! Attaboy.

Have you considered a new tax advisor?

"I'm starting to think..."
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About time

I'm starting to think RAF would rather talk about mathematical equations with me than to be on the losing end of this debate about his socialist proclivities.

Oh yeah don't forget fear, one of the other benefits for accepting a military pension is at anytime the pension recipient could be called back to duty; pending age restrictions.

"Bordering on communist if you ask me, not only did you work for a socialist organization but you get a pension paid by others"
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To be factual my pension is less than I pay in federal taxes, so fret not thinking you or others are paying it; sarcasim intended.

correction: ...never seen data showing the DOD waste is worse...

fear, guess you missed most of what I said, I KNOW there is waste in the DOD! I also said I have never data showing the DOD waste is worse than any other government "Department" or program in wasting money.

Is that enough data RAF or shall I post more??

The Pentagon’s use of no-bid contracts to defense industry corporations for war goods and weapons has tripled since 9/11, despite promises to reform the controversial practice.

The explosion in war spending and the continued military buildup after the 2003 invasion of Iraq led to a disregard for costs and accounting at the Pentagon. U.S. officials refused or could not say how much money the wars were costing taxpayers, but through Freedom of Information Act requests the Center for Public Integrity discovered billions of dollars were being doled out to huge defense firms, like Halliburton.

The Pentagon, in some cases, simply modified previously existing contracts for unrelated goods and services instead of opening up a new bidding process to competition, sometimes adding tens of millions of dollars in costs and higher profits for defense corporations. The Center for Public Integrity is releasing an investigative report on the no-bid practice.

The independent Commission on Wartime Contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan also is about to report that one in every six contracting and grant dollars spent in Iraq and Afghanistan has been wasted, according to published accounts.

In a post 9/11 environment of paranoia and war fever, the Pentagon and other contracting agencies said the practice was justified because the need to troops was too urgent. After ten long years, that remains their excuse.

After pledges and orders from President Barack Obama and Defense Department leaders to mitigate the wasteful practice, no measurable change has occurred. In 2003, no-bid contracts were a $50 billion problem, but have ballooned to $140 billion in 2011.
NAAAAAAH no spending problem in the DOD RAF keep telling yourself that the socialist organization that you recieve a pension from doesn't waste any money. Is Paul Ryan addressing the no-bid contract problems? Or is he leaving that one out since he recieves a HUGE amout of contributions from them?
My God why are you such a socialist? Bordering on communist if you ask me, not only did you work for a socialist organization but you get a pension paid by others? Wow!(sarcasm intended of course)

At the same time, some contractors spent significant amounts on political campaigns and lobbying, the report said. The 737 largest contractors examined in the report spent $214 million in campaign contributions through political action committees, soft money donations and individual contributions from company executives, employees and their families. The companies contributing the largest amounts were in industries outside of defense contracting, including transportation and telecommunications firms, but they had won some Pentagon business. Overall, the report said, a surprising number of companies gave little or nothing at all.
President Bush received $5.4 million in political contributions from defense contractors between 1998 and July 31 of this year. Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.) collected nearly $2 million during the same period.

The report also found several large defense firms with contracts federally designated for small businesses. In some cases, the large firms inherited the work from a smaller company it recently took over, the report said. In other cases, companies still had their small-business contracts long after they outgrew the designation

More than 40 percent of the Pentagon's $900 billion in prime contracts during the past six years have been awarded without competitive bidding, according to a Center for Public Integrity study released yesterday.

The nonpartisan group found that the Pentagon's largest contractors, including Lockheed Martin Corp. and General Dynamics Corp., received a majority of their defense revenue through no-bid contracts. Also, about $8 billion in work has been awarded since 1998 to unnamed companies designated as classified contractors, most of it without competition, the report said.
The center examined more than 2.2 million contract records and focused on 737 companies that received at least $100 million in Pentagon funds from 1998 to 2003. "This report shows that competitive bidding at the Pentagon happens less often than we think," said Charles Lewis, the center's executive director.

The use of sole-source contracts has become political fodder since Halliburton Co. was awarded a no-bid contract last year worth billions to help rebuild Iraqi oil fields.

Industry and government officials argue that the consolidation of the industry has reduced the Pentagon's options in obtaining some weapons, rendering competition moot. For example, Northrop Grumman Corp. is the country's last remaining maker of aircraft carriers. It's also common for the Pentagon to order additional quantities of a weapon through a sole-source contract after holding a competition.

The report found that the Defense Department has become increasingly dependent on outside contractors at the same time it has lost many of the procurement officials meant to monitor their work. In some cases, the department has hired one company to monitor the work of another, Lewis said.

The department is examining the report and trying to understand the context of its findings, said spokesman Glenn Flood. The individual services -- Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines -- make decisions on no-bid contracts on a case-by-case basis, he said. "We are in charge of the contractors," Flood said. "The contractors are not calling the final shots."

More than 70 percent of Bethesda-based Lockheed Martin's $90 billion in prime contracts during the past six years were awarded without a full or open competition, according to the report. That excludes revenue Lockheed, the Pentagon's largest contractor, received through joint ventures.

A Lockheed spokesman said the company had not examined the center's results, but a certain number of sole-source contracts should be expected in a firm of its size. When Lockheed wins contracts to develop a weapons systems through the competitive process, it is often followed years later with a sole-source contract to produce the product, said company spokesman Thomas C. Greer.

Tell me how implying (calling) others communists and socialists is showing respect. It is typical name calling that goes on from the right when they have no rational arguments of their own.

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Hmmm telling others their views are similar to socialists and communists is now calling them names? So calling Ryan’s plan atheist is a normal thing in left fringe views but pointing out the obvious is name calling. Push here for a victim card -->*<

Guess some folks might need to read what the socialist and communist parties in the US stand for and then look again at their views before claiming people are calling "names"

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/

http://www.cpusa.org/cpusa-constitution/...

Myviews you have very typically taken the wingnut approach, talking about what you think I have or use in benefits, it has nothing to do with the discussion, without fully addressing my comments; perhaps you should take the tree from your eye before asking others to remove a log from theirs. Btw, does a log fit in an eye?

You seem very diligent in your support of CP yet while doing so you have overlooked, or ignored, the point of my post; imagine that. CP claimed, over and over, Ryan’s plan is based from an atheistic position since somehow Rand had similar positions (not all) and she claimed to be an atheist. Purely hysterically funny, one for that fact neither has anything in common and the other for how far the fringe will go making up reasons to oppose an idea before fully understanding it. The funniest part is CPs claim Christ would oppose it when her posted views are very similar to socialist and communist parties USA and both those movements were framed more around atheistic principles than anything Ryan has ever said. So is CP against atheism or just Ryan? If just Ryan why continue to chirp over Rand and her claims to atheism, other than just to post more times how much distain she has for Ryan. After all it is a free country she can like or dislike anyone and for the most part voice those views. When the views get utterly wacky I will also voice mine to point them out.

fear although I have never seen an data to back your claim I agree there is waste in the DOD budget and spending process. I suspect the spending habits in that federal program are similar in all; I am speaking in the nature of using allotted budget funds before year’s end so the next year’s budgets are not cut by the amounts not used. I am sure there is waste in other areas, but the largest year-to-year waste I witnessed was end of year fall out spending, it was mostly wasteful and something I have wrote to my elected officials over every year trying to fix. The answer has always been that there are automatic built in increases to budgets across the board in federal budgets. It will take congressional action to fix that. To this point I have only heard Ryan try to take this on.

Lets talk about a social program that is full of wasteful spending, probably the most waste of any in the federal government. Over spends more than any other, absolutely the weight holding us back as a nation. Think I am talking entitlements? Medicare? SS? Try the United States military and homeland defense. Funny how that works huh? Buncha socialist right wing chicken hawks.

vato just gets loco and makesZERO sense, its kind of regular.
My question is Vato if you are so anti socialist, why do you live in a socialist nation? Our military is socialistic, in your world we would be protected by Blackwater, and only those that could afford protection would get it. Only those that could afford their roads plowed would get them plowed. Only those that wanted their garbage taken away could have it done. As a matter of a fact any type of governement that collects tax money and provides services is socialist by your definition , and robbing you. So really any nation is socialist by your deranged definition.

Remember the moment you retire you had better not accept SS or medicare, since they are socialist programs and you hate socialism so much. The best part is that when you retire the health care system you so desparately defend will be the one to STEAL all of your money, not the socialist programs that you will someday count on for medical care and income. WHEN not IF that day comes maybe then you will see how misguided and stuid all of your comments really are.

vatoloco, thank goodness that your world view is of such a fringe that it's of little to no consequence. Your postings are nothing but nonsense and insults, and it's clear that you really know nothing about issues. Otherwise, you wouldn't characterize Social Security as an 'unfunded debt'. Social Security is funded, and with a little tweaking it will remain fully funded for the forseeable future and beyond. Social Security has nothing to do with the nation's debt. By the way, when you call FDR a fascist, you prove yourself to be less than credible about anything.

Vat: Please explain to me then why Mr. Ryan did not hesitate to partake of these so-called government welfare programs, i.e., social security. It is really funny that he rails against the system that helped him after his father died. Sort of redundant, don't you think?

Oh goodness One day...

Civility from the left?.............boy is that an oxymoron.

Its like saying that rap is actual music.

myviews2...you’re much too rational and grounded in facts. It does absolutely nothing to post statistical data and links to support your data. The people to whom you have directed the information have no desire to be informed and have proven by comments made in their own post they have no understanding of statistics. I to, have been labeled arrogant, hypocritical, liberal etc. Whenever I have learned something from someone, I’ve never considered them arrogant because they knew something I didn’t. I appreciated the information. Being ignorant means being uninformed but when one has been informed and reliable data with sources cited has been provided, to continue to adhere to what has been proven to be false, is the definition of stupidity or extreme stubbornness, which makes one look stupid. They know they’ve made themselves look stupid and they become angry and thus the childish name calling begins. Instead of getting angry at the people who are trying to inform them you’d think they’d get angry at the ones who have been misinforming them. I used to vote Republican until someone said they found Republicans to be uninformed. I set out to prove that person wrong and after a year of reading bills, watching voting records and checking out information on unbiased sights, I only succeeded in proving the person right. I’m not so arrogant as to think that I know more than people who research issues for a living and statisticians who analyze mountains of data. I work in a scientific field so I couldn’t deny the fact that I had been completely misinformed. Then I got really PO’d ; at myself, because I had allowed it.

The path to prosperity does not run through the government.

This has been well proven with the New Deal programs enacted by the almost dictator FDR.

In almost all cases, these social programs have disrupted the labor markets and financial structures, and have reduced American competitiveness.

We sit here with with mountains of unfunded debts including Social Security.

These welfare programs also laid the foundation forndestroying the Black families through AFDC and other welfare policies.

Thanks fascist FDR.

LMAO...the righties on here are probably about to puke over what I'm sure they consider a liberal love fest going on with the postings. Vat has already said the civility is making him sick!

Mouse: You are right that God will see this through to the end. That is why I continually point out the error of Mr. Ryan's ways, that his plan for America is based on the theories of the atheist, Ayn Rand. Greed is the name of the game for Republicans, it seems. To heck with your fellow man, your neighbor, your friend or even your relatives. I think Republicans would sell out their own relatives if it would make them wealthy.

916WI – BTW, have you ran the numbers for Social Security or do you get the annual statement? You may be too young to get the annual statement – not sure when they start. Look into it some as this is quite a deal actually. Payout for me (including my employer's share) is less than half of my life expectancy after I retire and my spouse is insured in case I don't make it. I know that I have been fortunate enough to contribute more than most so that is not a great variable to use against my case. But wait, there is more....add in your spouse with or without a secondary income. That lowers the numbers more yet – especially if they were a stay at home mom/dad who home schooled the kids to keep them out of that nasty public education.
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SS may have long term sustainability problems but it is not because it is a bad deal. If you want to let it die so you are ensured that you don't get a payout, don't blame the 80% of the people that want SS to remain in place. We like personal responsibility, right? You wreck it, you own the blame. If we get serious about fixing problems instead of throwing up smoke screens to win an election, there is plenty of time to fix any projected shortfalls before they become real shortfalls.

Ryan is another ponzi player..... but instead is attempting to take peoples earned pensions, health and social away in broad daylight.
This Koch puppet will sell everyone out for them at a price, but God will see this through to the end.

Bravo, bravo, bravo, myviews2 for your informative link about social security. Now we know what the real truth is.

If you really want to know the truth, you must read.

916WI – so you think President Reagan was working a Ponzi scheme? While I was never very fond of him as president, I would never accuse him of that. That is really an interesting thought by you, however – maybe you should put that into a letter to the editor :)

http://www.ssa.gov/history/reaganstmts.h...

vatoloco:
"No different than funneling taxpayer money from the rich to the poor."
Where have you been lately, it's the other way around and has been for many years. Except it's been the middle class that they have been funneling taxpayer money from.

Vat; Did you even read myviews post? Probably not.

Do you even read all of the posts on here? I seriously doubt it.

If you wanted to learn the truth, you would read all of them and then make a decision.

I really, really feel sorry for you. Not trying to be morally superior. Absolutely not. Are you in the 1% category, vat? If so, then I understand your post completely.

Vat: We are trying to show you the truth of the matter. If you have to get sick to know the truth, then it will all be worth it.

You need to seriously open your eyes, vat. We are only trying to help you as to what is going on in our nation.

Thank you, myviews for your informative post.

"I feel sorry for you, Vat, that you have nothing to back up your opinions, and that is why you call other people names."

Oh...your moral superiority sickens me.

Unemployment is still high, projection was to be at 8 percent

Trillions in debt added

No jobs but they passed a healthcare law that will get gutted eventually

bin Laden was killed, great, that should get us some jobs

Gaddafi was killed, awesome

From:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

Mitchell Zuckoff, a Boston University journalism professor who has written a book on Ponzi, noted three critical dissimilarities between Social Security and a Ponzi scheme, which by definition is both fraudulent and unsustainable.

"First, in the case of Social Security, no one is being misled," Zuckoff wrote in a January 2009 article in Fortune. "...Social Security is exactly what it claims to be: A mandatory transfer payment system under which current workers are taxed on their incomes to pay benefits, with no promises of huge returns."

Second, he wrote, "A Ponzi scheme is unsustainable because the number of potential investors is eventually exhausted. That's when the last people to participate are out of luck; the music stops and there's nowhere to sit. It's true that Social Security faces a huge burden — and a significant, long-term financing problem — in light of retiring Baby Boomers. … But Social Security can be, and has been, tweaked and modified to reflect changes in the size of the taxpaying workforce and the number of beneficiaries. It would take great political will, but the government could change benefit formulas or take other steps, like increasing taxes, to keep the system from failing."

Third, Zuckoff wrote, "Social Security is morally the polar opposite of a Ponzi scheme... At the height of the Great Depression, our society (see "Social") resolved to create a safety net (see "Security") in the form of a social insurance policy that would pay modest benefits to retirees, the disabled and the survivors of deceased workers. By design, that means a certain amount of wealth transfer, with richer workers subsidizing poorer ones.That might rankle, but it's not fraud... None of this is to suggest that Social Security is a perfect system or that there aren't sizeable problems facing the incoming administration and Congress. But it's not a Ponzi scheme. And Ponzi himself, who died in a hospital charity ward with only enough money for his burial, would never have recognized it as his own."

We agree with Zuckoff’s interpretation. We rated Perry's November 2010 comparison of Social Security and Ponzi schemes False, and we stand by that ruling. The comparison still deserves a rating of False.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/article/...
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/arti...

It is an outright infringement of private property.

The government has no right to tell me how to invest money that has been earned by me.

Stop with the civility, you guys/girls are making me sick.

916WI; It is not a ponzi scheme. That is what the right would like you to believe. You need to do some research into social security.

916wi: Do you actually read the posts on here? Myviews NEVER FAULTED them for it. He said they should take whatever they could get.

myviews....the righties are hardly "reaping the benefits" of programs like social security. They are simply collecting a reduced portion of the principal that they were forced to invest. You seriously want to fault them for that? As I've said in the past, I would gladly give up any claim to the money that the government has taken from me over the past 20 years to fund that program, if it meant me never having to invest another dime in their ponzi system. I would have no problem taking full responsibility for my own retirement fund and I'm quite sure I would see a MUCH greater ROI, that the huge loss that I expect with my government managed "investment"...........

Myviews deserves a special commendation for his post. He is "right on" the target.

ThirdEye: Myviews is a veteran too. I see him showing some respect. RAF is a veteran. I see him showing no respect because he is constantly calling others names.

I give them both respect for their service to our country. However, I personally wonder what is wrong with one our veterans who cannot accept a differing point of view from his own and constantly belittles others in these comments sections. Maybe PTSD is a problem there. In the service of our country, I thought that one learned respect and how to show it. But I guess that does not apply to all who have served our country.

If more people had the attitude that myviews does, we would all be better off in this country.

myviews2, thank you for such an articulate and thoughtful comment.

third-eye - you made my point! You righties imply that SS, Medicare, etc. are socialist programs that need to be destroyed (Ryan's plans to privatize which then become some other program name) and then call others socialists and communists for supporting them while you reap the benefits of the very programs you want to destroy and that others work to protect. And BTW, I do not generally complain about paying my taxes as that is what funds the government that provides social safety net programs to its citizens. These taxes also pay for military pay and benefits including pensions, VA hospitals, etc. right? I have never complained about military benefits – they deserve all they can get. I have told RAF that more than once....what I don't like is for people who willingly take these benefits to then complain about others and call them communists and socialists. I have told RAF this also and in fact do not begrudge him or any others taking advantage of every program offered. You all seem to have a few problems closing the loop on your stated positions of conservatism vs. what you want the government to provide to you, however.
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Now regarding respect.....I show absolute respect to those who do the same. Tell me how implying (calling) others communists and socialists is showing respect. It is typical name calling that goes on from the right when they have no rational arguments of their own. I have experienced that from my own extended family so nothing new here. Being a veteran does not free you of the need to show respect to others and I personally don't think being a veteran is to be used to justify disrespect. Maybe you do........
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I am well aware that Friday is Veteran's day because I too am a Viet Nam vet. I know what I am talking about.
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And your comment about disdain......why would I disdain a veteran when I experienced that same lack of respect myself face-to-face with the local community? Why would I disdain a twice decorated veteran who happened to be my cousin and gave his life due to the Viet Nam War? Why would I disdain veterans who happened to be school mates who gave their lives in the war. Why would I disdain a veteran class mate who lost limbs in the war? You make some strong assumptions here, don't you? And you are 100% wrong, very insulting and arrogant to those of us who served but happen to care about our fellow family and citizens more than we care about taking money from the poor to give to the wealthy. And if I have to adopt your philosophy in order to not be called names.....then call me whatever name you want.

Fear, please don't bring equations and RAF into the same picture. We all remember his inflation equations X - Y = Z and X - 2Y = Z which resulted in Y = 2Y. Of course, I tried pointing out that the only real solution to those simultaneous equations is Y = 0, but I think RAF is still scratching his head over that one.

vatoloco...... How did Ryan turn out?
Oh yes, he went from working as a local polotician to a "fill his own pockets fullof gold" Kock messenger.
Just another Herman Cane.... can't wait to see whats in Ryans closet.
Maybe that is why he is not running.... do you think?

as we are all grateful for the service of our nations armed forces, they are indeed a socialist part of this country as defined by the ultimate follower RAF. Calling others followers that have their own points of view is just as silly.
You are so quick to call others socialists/communists that suggest paying HALF AS MUCH for a better healthcare system socialism because it is somewhat regulated? The fact of the matter is if you look at the systems worldwide(as I referenced earlier in this thread) that ther IS PRIVATE choice in every single systme that is socialized!! So I have trouble following your label here.

""The education lobby is a powerful one, its convinced people that paying more for less is somehow better"" and you have proof to back that up right? Of course that is actual fact when it comes to health care , but who is counting? Its people like you and Vato that refuse to acknowledge the demographic problems and variables when addressing education in this country. That is your choice as a follower. I would think that of anyoe in here you would understand that this is an algabraeic equatiuon RAF not a 1+1=2

I feel sorry for you, Vat, that you have nothing to back up your opinions, and that is why you call other people names.

Please read myviews response at 12:28 p.m. today. He gives a good description of what those on the right do, when they have nothing to offer and know they have lost the debate.

myviews2 Nov 7, 2011 at 12:25 p.m. RAF served his country and part of his pay is a pension, just as if he worked for IBM. Social Security and Medicare payments were deducted from every pay check he ever received.
How can you then accuse this veteran of living in a nanny state?
You do know veterens day is Friday.... Have some respect.
As a Vietnam veteran I know that many of you lefties still disdain us, just as you disdain our recent veterans of Iraq. Oh you won't say it out loud, and you grit your teeth as you mouth "thanks for your service"
But you don't mean it, as evidenced by your post.

Cp

There are millions who have rejected (Nov 2010 elections) the Obubulus plan and have intentions of getting rid of this big Demo misfortune.

Ryan is not going anywhere my friends.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

" I have researched Ryan's plan and it falls far short of what our country needs"

Funny, FDR thought his Blue Eagle fascist approach to curing America's economic ailments was needed.

Look at how that turned out.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/...

RAF: There are many, many people who oppose Ryan's plan, and for other reasons, not just because it is atheistic in nature.

Mouse: I have to have my laugh a day everyday. You just gave it to me. I'm laughing so hard I am almost falling off my chair.

Did the police surround Ryan for his safety or the fact that he "wines" a lot?
A great name for a bottle of wine made just for Ryan (Religious Hypocrisy).

RAF - I think your comment to CP was a bit over the top. As you have likely lived in the US all of your life except when on assignment, likely went to a public school and then, as you implied, served 20 years in the military using military health care, will get a military pension, will get military provided health care for life, will collect Social Security, will get Medicare if you so choose, and basically lived in a nanny world of your own all of this time, you have a lot of room to talk. I can't think of one issue that CP or any other “not-as-far-right-as-you” person has posted that is exclusively socialist or communist.
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Maybe you could enlighten us on some of the socialist/communist ideas that justifies calling people a socialist or a communist. You seem to specialize in calling other names, as do some others when they have nothing to back up their positions. I don't see how you can try to take the spec out of another person's eye until you take the log out of your own eye.

Youkillme, great post.

RAF: I am not a follower. It seems to me that YOU are the follower. I have researched Ryan's plan and it falls far short of what our country needs. Ryan has stated he "believes in every man for himself." That goes against the grain of religion. It goes against what Jesus stood for. Randism promotes selfishness, and Ryan has claimed to be a Randian.

Selfishness is a god to some, and there is nothing Christian about it. The Bible says that greed will be the downfall of mankind. That is fast approaching under Ryan's plan for America.

RAF, you did not answer myviews question. Typical of you. You just spewed more garbage.

" criticize those who call Ayn Rand an athiest simply because she proclaimed herself to be one"
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What? Do you have a reading comprehension impediment? Rand's personal declaration has nothing to do with anything. Using her declaration as a reason to oppose something yet willfully following other philosophical socialist and communist principles that are also framed after atheistic beliefs is lunacy.

When small-minded people like youkillme have nothing else to bring to the table, they repeatedly claim others who they know little about as listeners of Hannity and Limbaugh.

When narrow-minded people like RAF have nothing else to bring to the table, they repeatedly frame fundamental Americans who they know little about as Communists/Socialists. They hear Hannity and Limbaugh say it and they repeat it like the good foot soldiers they are. Yet, criticize those who call Ayn Rand an athiest simply because she proclaimed herself to be one. I have no problem with atheists whatsoever, but I do have a problem with those who are out to destroy almost every edifice in the contemporary American way of life, our Judeo-Christian religion, our modified government regulated capitalism and our rule by the majority will. No matter which way you twist it, when Paul Ryan says that's the kind of writing and thinking we need right now - THAT I have a problem with.

"That is why I don't like Ryan's plan for America"
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No, you don't like ryan's plan because you're a follower. To this point you have never given a vague reason as to why, unless you are echoing comments made by others. Your only original though about this dislike for his plan is the wild claim of it coming from rand who declared she was an atheist. While the majority of social and communist beliefs you like are from other atheists too. Glad to see another OWSDEM making so much sense...

Concerned

Taking from the rich is robbery also, regardless of what you think.

If a poor thug high jacks a Porsche from a lost dentist in a dilapidated neighborhood it would be ok?

Does being poor justify taking private property?

No different than funneling taxpayer money from the rich to the poor.

Is it?

Concernedperson.......So basically what you're saying is that when a person doesn't believe in the same God as you do, that those people are unable to feel compassion, and that their lives revolve around selfishness and greed?
Congratulations--it's still early, but I have a feeling that your comment will stand as the most ignorant of the day........You get a gold star my friend!

"Whenever I have the healthcare debate in person with any very hard-line right wing friend, as soon as I bring up their lack of christian values, the debate gets very slow and quiet. "

Fear

If your convictions to help the poor and oppressed are so high, why not start by donating most of your money to the state or the Medicaid program, or local health clinic?

Step up to the plate.

We cannot save everyone, unfortunately.

That is why I don't like Ryan's plan for America, because it is atheistic in nature.

This is because Rand openly declared she was an atheist.

RAF - One of the largest socialist organizations and one of the largest line items in the US budget is the military - you wouldn't have anything to do with that would you? Or did you work for a private Air Force?

Since you constantly support socialist/communist beliefs how is that you ignore the socialistic and communist movements around the world largely ignore the works of Christ? But a narrow minded OWSDEM can only see rand as being atheist.

Fear: Thanks for your excellent post. You make an excellent point about Jesus.

When people realize that Ryan's plan is based on an atheist's thinking, they suddenly run for the hills. His plan cannot be rationalized from a religious viewpoint. When selfishness is the center of his plan, religion is left out of the equation.

The education lobby is a powerful one, its convinced people that paying more for less is somehow better.

janesvillean said "Pretty dumb of vatoloco to say that he wouldn't have the choice of healthcare providers. That is explicitly something that would NOT change as health care reform is implemented, but the propaganda maroons like to roll it out because it sounds good. It's, quite simply, a lie."
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Speaking of dumb. The majority of the OWSDEM party politicians behind obamacare have stated the whole time their goal is single payer, this being another step in that direction, which is exactly the opposite of choice.

imagine a system that works and costs half as much. Good luck on that, corporate plutocracy wins out everytime. The insurance lobby is a powerful one, its convinced people that paying more for less is somehow better. Look at this website for god's sake!!

Funny thing that Republicants claim a large portion of the religious vote in this country based on one issue. But any person that actually follows the teachings of Jesus Christ as a method of living their life by would absolutely want a single payer system. this system right now that picks winners and losers by economic class(right wing rhetoric) is the most anti-Christian thing we have and they should feel like sinners because thats what they are by leaving out the poor and destitute, in the interests of greed and the rich.
Whenever I have the healthcare debate in person with any very hard-line right wing friend, as soon as I bring up their lack of christian values, the debate gets very slow and quiet. Always seems to be the factor that makes them think twice. especially if they really care about their faith, which many seem to.

Fear, you bring up lots of good points and suggestions. I've always thought the resistance to a single payer national healthcare plan was led by two factions -- insurance companies for their obvious financial reasons, and by medical professionals. When we move to a single payer system, we need to completely rethink the type of care our medical professionals provide and how they are compensated. We won't realize the full potential of savings until medical professionals are compensated for keeping their patients healthy as opposed to our current model where they have absolutely no financial interest in keeping their patients healthy. With our current system, the more patients they see, the greater their income and profits for their clinics. I think that change in compensation models frankly scares the medical community to death. As shown in UK and elsewhere, this new compensation model can be implemented and medical professionals are very happy with it. It would be a tremendous leap forward in making this nation a much healthier nation. Not to mention everyone having access to healthcare, elimination of billing and insurance policies, elimination of Medicare, Medicaid and state-run insurance programs and tremendous cost reductions in what this nation pays for healthcare. Imagine not having to worry about healthcare when you move from state to state or lose your job. Imagine currently uninsured people no longer having to use hospital emergency rooms for common ailments. Imagine not having to worry about having your healthcare policy terminated for some pre-existing condition. Imagine not having to worry about understand and choosing between terribly complex healthcare insurance plans. Imagine not having to deal with archaic and burdensome billing systems. Imagine not having to worry about covering the cost of medicines that your doctor feels you need. It just goes on and on and on...

Pretty dumb of vatoloco to say that he wouldn't have the choice of healthcare providers. That is explicitly something that would NOT change as health care reform is implemented, but the propaganda maroons like to roll it out because it sounds good. It's, quite simply, a lie.

Moral superiority? No just intellectual superiority. It really doesn't take much of a brain to figure it out. If you want to pay TWICE as much for a system that performs at a lower level, fine. All because you think that it should be up to YOU to get overcharged for crappy care?
If you actually know anything about any of the systems that I have posted about, there are private choices and insurance available in every single one of them, so the choice is yours. Funny how when faced WITH that choice how few choose the expensive private route.
I really wish I could understand what you are talking about vato, moral superiority? Why is it that when any of you hard-core do or die right wingers are faced with actual numbers , you back peddal with pointless rhetoric and attacks? How many times do I have to point out that your great system here in the usa is out matched by a socialized system?
I offer realistic solutions to problems, why nothing but rhetoric from those who disagree? I believe in what I say about solving unemployment and health care. Could save this country in a year and return it to prosperity, yet all I hear from those who disagree is labels and rhetoric, funny how that works.
Repeal all free trade deals and socialize medicine, and in one year unemployment is less than 4% and business everywhere is happy that they no longer shoulder the burden for their employees insurance, how in the world American companies wouldn't support that I have no clue. Any rise in tax would be less than many pay for insurance. Maybe its because if insurance gets too high then they can just stop offering benefits.

vatoloco said, "If Canadian healthcare was so great, why do some of them come here for special procedures due to wait times or specialization?"
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And, vatoloco, perhaps you can explain to us why hundreds of thousands of Americans can only afford to buy their prescription medicines from Canadian pharmacies? These are drugs developed by American pharmaceutical companies that are sold for 1/4 to 1/2 the price in Canada as they are sold in America. Perhaps you can also tell us what you would do to fix this problem if you were President.

Vat: You accuse fear of moral superiority. Seems to me it's the other way around.

vatoloco..... Why do some great Americans fight for American and give lives 365 days a year and come back to no jobs, while Ryan drinketh the wine at 350 dollars a bottle?
Ryan needs to taste the real thing.
This Koch puppet plays at soldier boy for the wealthy, and brags about it.

vatoloco... Why, why, why..... why do some go to Germany for eye treatment? Are you saying all specialists are American?
Why, why, why?
Why does Herman Cane forget? Why do you repeat yourself?
Why does Paul Ryan spend $350 on a bottle of liquid?
Why, why, why?
Why does your brain only work in a Republican %'s?

Fear

I don't care what other countries do because I do not live there.

The government should not be in the business of dictating who gets healthcare period. It is my right to choose who ever I want as my provider sorry.

That is my business.

I know you emit a high indication of moral superiority but you cannot speak for all Americans.

If Canadian healthcare was so great, why do some of them come here for special procedures due to wait times or specialization?

Move to Canada, no one is holding you here.

You people should know when your in Wisconsin anything could happen hence the large police present. No one asked about fair taxation. Kind should address all the subsidies being paid out that taxpayers will never get back and frankly get very little for it.

Third Eye: They are relatives of one of my relatives. And, yes, they are very reliable.

concernedperson, QUOTE "I have relatives who know people..." END QUOTE
A reliable source.?!

Mouse: I wonder who that was.

I have relatives who know people who live in Canada. The people from Canada are glad to live there because of their health care. They said they feel sorry for the people living in the U.S. They would never move to the U.S. for that reason alone.

My Aunt and cousin live in Canada. they claim that their insurance is great. THey would never want the insurance we have here.

Did you hear about the guy who went to church with guards...... just to drink the wine, but not listen to God?

Now you're getting it bebe. Tax the rich. It's not the only thing that needs to be done to fix the mess that we've gotten into over the last decade, but it is the first thing. The millionaire tax is a good start. Teabaggers and Republicans talk so much about patriotism. If I made $2,000,000/year, I would gladly pay the extra $5,000 for the millionaire tax to get the jobs program going and start rebuilding roads and bridges. Why wouldn't you? Do you have to be on a bridge that collapses before you understand? And if I made $1,000,100/year, I would gladly pay the 50 cents extra that the millionaire tax would cost me. That's right...50 CENTS!! Why wouldn't you? You really need to get some perspective, bebe.

Rob Zerban is the man to replace Ryan. Time to move Ryan out of office next election. Do your homework people - Start looking at the connection and connect the dots of Paul Ryan to David Koch, Herman Cain, Scott Walker, and Mark Block - (the guy smoking in the ad)who is Cain's campaign manager. The so called Roadmap to America's future gets really interesting.

I know you couldnt possibly read all that beebee, thats what we call information. Maybe you should try it sometime. And I am the moron, huh?

Who decides what’s covered
Different entities in the public and private sector decide what’s covered, depending on what kind of insurance a person has. For people under 65 who have private job-based coverage, employers often contract with insurers to set benefits and cost-sharing levels. People on government programs ranging from veterans’ and military care to Medicare are subject to the benefits prescribed in those programs, with private supplemental insurance available to Medicare beneficiaries. Care is also rationed by income; people who can’t afford to be or stay insured often go without health care or delay it until their health problems are advanced and expensive to treat.

Quality
Health-care quality remains mixed, but a big push is on to improve health results given that the U.S. spends twice as much as any other industrialized country on medical care and reaps below-average results in many cases. Treatment for breast cancer was rated most effective among the OECD’s 30 member countries. But treatment for preventable complications from asthma and diabetes is poor, lagging far behind other nations. Infant mortality is relatively high. Every year 44,000 to 95,000 hospitalized Americans die as a result of medical errors at a cost of $17 billion to $29 billion, according to the Institute of Medicine. An estimated 2 million Americans suffer from hospital-acquired infections every year, according to the CDC.

Doctors
Doctors are paid on a fee-for-service basis; that is, they're typically compensated every time they see a patient, with only a handful of health systems like Kaiser Permanente and Mayo Clinic paying doctors a salary or bundling payments for care coordination or team care. Many experts want the U.S. to move in the direction of bundled payments and those that reflect quality of care, not quantity, to both reduce costs and improve patient safety. The U.S. has a greater share of doctor-specialists compared with generalists and primary-care physicians, who earn much less. The shortage of PCPs is a growing problem.

Satisfaction
Americans are the least satisfied with their health-care system among 10 nations studied in 2008, according to the Commonwealth Fund. A third of Americans said they believe the U.S. system "has so much wrong with it that we need to completely rebuild it," and their feelings have remained stable over the last decade, with roughly twice as many saying they want a complete overhaul compared with other nations

How people are insured
The U.S. has a patchwork of private and public health insurance that depends primarily on a person’s age and employment status. Unlike their counterparts in other wealthy industrialized nations, Americans aren’t born with automatic health insurance. About 159 million get coverage through their employers, but that number is shrinking as the jobless rate rises and health-care costs climb. Most working-age adults with job-based coverage pay a share of the monthly premium plus a growing amount of money at the point of service. About 97 million people are split between Medicaid, a government program for the poor, and Medicare, the one for people 65 and older and the disabled. More than 10 million buy coverage on the private market, but people who lose job-based insurance often have trouble getting an individual policy because of costs and their "pre-existing” health conditions. About 46 million, or 15% of the population, are uninsured.

Politics and lobbying
Health-care reform is President Barack Obama’s top domestic priority as more Americans find themselves priced out of coverage or with inadequate insurance. Obama was elected in 2008 in part because of his promise to overhaul the health system, something that has eluded U.S. presidents for at least half a century. Corporate lobbying groups, including those for doctors, hospitals, medical-device makers, drug companies, health insurers and employers, are responsible for much of that paralysis. They have risen in power in the last 40 years, lavishing cash on candidates of both major political parties and funding savvy advertising campaigns to influence public opinion in an increasingly polarized political environment. Obama’s success on health care is considered pivotal to his chances of holding a Democratic majority in Congress past the mid-term elections in 2010. He faces the challenge of reining in wasteful medical spending, estimated to comprise as much as a third of total health-care spending, without worsening job losses.

U.K.

How people are insured
The National Health Service (NHS) was created after the Second World War to provide comprehensive and universal access to health care. The vast majority of services are provided free at the point of use. NHS is funded from general taxation rather than the social insurance system used by most other European countries. Charges have been introduced over time to cover dental and vision services, long-term care and prescription drugs. About 8% of the population has private medical insurance.

Politics and lobbying
As the U.S. health-reform debate heated up over the summer, some American conservatives criticized NHS and pointed to it as a cautionary tale, spurring politicians in all the major U.K. parties to declare support for their nation’s health-care system. Despite frequent funding crises there has been no serious attempt to move away from tax-based funding.

Who decides which services are covered
The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) assesses which treatments should be covered based on clinical effectiveness and cost effectiveness. There has been controversy over some of NICE’s decisions such as when certain high-priced drugs are deemed not cost-effective.

Quality
Hospital-acquired infections such as MRSA (methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) have been a big issue in the U.K. in recent years.
Horror stories about poor care at some long-term care facilities have made headlines.

Satisfaction
Nearly three out of four people were “completely” satisfied that their general practitioner or health center had dealt with the main reason for their visit, according to a 2008 survey from the Picker Institute.

Canada

How people are insured
Canada’s health system evolved over the last 60 years on the principle of universal coverage for medically necessary services that doesn’t depend on an individual’s ability to pay for basic health care. Legal residents receive a health card that gives them access to primary and hospital care through a program called Medicare that was established under the federal Canada Health Act of 1984. It’s made up of 13 provincial and territorial health insurance plans and is financed mostly through tax dollars. The provinces vary as to whether they cover services such as routine dental and vision care. Prescription drug coverage is not included for most working-age adults, but many people buy private, supplemental coverage through their employers. Canadians don’t face out-of-pocket costs for covered services such as copayments at the point of service.

Who decides what’s covered
The federal government sets the parameters, but provinces have jurisdiction over the benefits and how their programs are managed. For example, most people in British Columbia pay premiums but those in neighboring Alberta do not, according to their health ministries' Web sites. Albertans aren’t covered for experimental procedures while Manitoba residents have access to long-term care benefits.

Quality
The Canadian Patient Safety Institute, an independent not for profit organization, was established in 2003 to evaluate initiatives and promote best practices. An annual report card from an alliance of medical-professional groups tracks wait times in five priority areas: hip and knee replacement surgery, cataract surgery, coronary artery bypass graft surgery, diagnostic imaging (MRI and CT scans) and radiation therapy for cancer. While the latest report shows improvement in some areas, the waits for some non-urgent procedures can be as long as four months.

Doctors and patients
Doctors in Canada are independent workers. They aren’t employees of the government. About three quarters are paid on a fee for service basis compared with 25% from alternative payments, according to CIHI. Some provinces offer doctors financial incentives to improve the care of patients with chronic conditions such as diabetes.

Satisfaction
About 57% of Canadians believe they are receiving high-quality health care, a percentage that's held relatively steady since 2002, according to a poll of more than 1,200 Canadians conducted in late 2007 by Pollara Research. About one in five cited wait times as the most important health issue facing the nation, with 19% saying a doctor shortage is most critical.

France

How people are insured
The French consider health care a right. About 95% of the population is covered by national health insurance. Financing for the scheme, known as Assurance Maladie, is supported by employers, employee contribution and personal income tax. All employees see a portion of their gross salary deducted at the source towards it. Overall, French consumers pay for roughly 13% of their health care out of pocket. About 92% opt for additional private insurance to have access to more services. In general, French patients pay upfront for the treatment and are then reimbursed by the government health insurance and their private insurance.

Politics and lobbying
Health care wasn’t a significant issue in the last general elections. It is often taken for granted. However, issues such as the closure of maternity wards in rural areas and hospital-staff strikes sometimes capture voters’ attention. In the past few years the government has sought to rein in costs by imposing some restrictions on access to doctors because the Assurance Maladie has been in the red since 1989 and its deficit is growing. But a recent proposal to trim coverage not directly related to a patient's primary illness — a sore throat for someone with diabetes, for example — created public outcry, forcing the government to back down. Some other measures have been better accepted, albeit reluctantly. French patients have been encouraged to choose a preferred provider who functions as a gatekeeper to specialists.

Who decides what’s covered
The government decides which services are covered and sets co-pays. Most treatments are covered, with the exception of so-called alternative therapies like acupuncture and homeopathy. French patients are generally able to see a specialist and have surgery with very little waiting time, but efforts to reduce costs means waiting lists are in place for some non-urgent procedures. For cataract surgery, for instance, the mean waiting time in France was 2.2 months compared with 6.2 months in Spain and 5.8 months in Sweden, according to the Survey of Health, Ageing and Retirement in Europe.

Quality
France is behind many countries in efforts to track medical errors. In 2006, it created an institution to monitor them but funding has been lacking. Doctors are not paid according to medical outcomes.

Satisfaction
Some 83% of French citizens express satisfaction with their social security system, according to a 2007 study

Germany

How people are insured
Germany introduced mandatory health insurance for workers in 1883 and later extended the requirement to all, making it the oldest system of its kind in the world. The overarching philosophy is that everyone should receive high-quality health insurance regardless of their individual health risk or income. Within statutory health insurance, there are 196 public "sickness funds" that compete for members, according to the German Federal Ministry of Health. About 90% of Germans have a statutory health insurer compared with 10% who have private health insurance. In the statutory scheme, people split the monthly contributions, based on a percentage of their income, with their employers up to a cap of 14% of wages. Patients pay copayments in addition to monthly contributions, but copays are capped at 2% of annual household income, and that ceiling drops to 1% of annual income for people who are chronically ill. Workers can opt out of the statutory system and buy private insurance if their earnings exceed about 4,000 euros a month or if they are in certain sectors, such as the self-employed or civil servants. Because of demographic pressure from an aging population, in 1994 Germany introduced long-term care insurance that followed the same basic principles as health insurance.

Politics and lobbying
Health care wasn’t a major issue in this year’s election campaign even though health policy historically has been high on the political agenda in Germany.

Who decides what’s covered
The legislature (Bundestag and Bundesrat) decides what medical goods and services are included in the statutory health insurance benefits package with input from a committee representing doctors, hospitals and sickness funds. It considers many aspects of health care medically essential, with universal coverage including inpatient and outpatient care, prescription drugs, dental care, medical devices and so on. Statutory health insurance also sets the fee scales for SHI-accredited physicians.

Patients and doctors
Patients don’t need a general-practitioner referral to see a specialist. Waiting times for hospital care are short or non-existent, according to the German Federal Ministry of Health. The system is decentralized and health care is provided by a large number of organizations. Outpatient services are usually the responsibility of doctors operating under contracts to the statutory health insurance providers, according to the German Medical Association. Public hospitals are run by local authorities and towns. Voluntary non-profit hospitals are run by churches and not-for-profit organizations and private hospitals are run as commercial operations.

Quality
The Coalition for Patient Safety or APS, for Aktionsbundnis Patientensicherheit, is a non-governmental organzation that aims to prevent and reduce medical errors. There are no official statistics on the estimated number of medical errors in Germany.

Japan BTW wips everyone in care and expenditures and trhey are very eerily like the Obummer care that you all so chastize:

How people are insured
All Japanese residents are required to join either an employer-based insurance program or the National Health Insurance program. Insurers don’t compete; they all charge fixed prices for the same drugs and services set by negotiations with the Health Ministry every two years. Employers and employees share premium costs, with the average employee contribution about 4% of an employee's salary. Covered employees usually pay out of pocket up to 30% of the cost of the care they seek. Those in the National Health Insurance pay a premium based on their income, and also pay part of the costs of their care according to a sliding scale. A new and so far unpopular program for seniors over 75 requires them to pay often higher premiums, but they pay a lower out-of-pocket charge of about 10% of the cost of their care. Households spend just 6.6% of their total income on medical care, according to McKinsey, but this figure could rise to as much as 22.5% by 2035.
Quality
The quality of Japanese medicine is difficult to gauge precisely. The generally high quality of preventive care likely contributes to the country’s long average life expectancy, ranked No. 1 in the world. But tracking medical errors is difficult largely due to cultural reasons. Japan is not a litigious society to begin with, and the role of doctors traditionally has been one of unquestioning respect. Through the early 1990s, only a few hundred medical malpractice suits were filed each year. That number began to rise in the late 1990s but still remains well below the levels of most Western countries. Many hospitals now have policies in place to obtain informed consent from patients and their families.

BTW I have more stats if you want, so call me out again, go ahead.
Remember statistics don't belong to a political party, like you.

again, MY ideas for solutions are PROVEN and are working worldwide, you choose to call names instead of coming up with some factual evidence to support your highly unintelligent , morally questionable rhetoric.
I not only looked up positions on people that actually experience socialized medicine, and they overwhelmingly like it. But I also pulled stats to PROVE the FACT that it works, in several countries all over the world!! SO put that in your head and come back with some really predictable name calling response. Unfortunately until you have some credible evidence of any "rationing" going on that is WORSE than the rationing that happens right here, than I think its time for you to wake up beeeeeebeeeeeeeee, I have swept you and yourlittle brain under the rug, time to tell your hypnotist to wake you up. Ready 1.....2.....3........CLAP!!!!!

BeeBee- Lets just break down the NUMBERS-
Life expectancy for other nations-Japan 82.6, Canada 80.4, France 80.6, Germany 79.4

Expenditures as a part of GDP( thats Gross domestic product in case you didnt know)
USA 15.8%, UK 8.0%, Japan 8.1%, Canada 10%, France 11.1%, Germany 10.5% Wow do we not get our moneys worth!! 37th ranked in the world for BY FAR the most expensive, boy are we being ripped off or what?

I would go to iunfant mortality but you can only guess where we rank, very low. Not good for your argument beebee.

Here we go beebee- I know that you arent reading but I will coninue to post so people can understand who spreads mindless garble and who takes time reads and THINKS!! Also if you didnt know, our health care system in the USA is AWFUL compared to almost every other system on Earth and is a HUGE part of why America is in decline.
England Vs USA
Deaths from cancer 256 per 100K(UK), 312 per 100K. Must be from the lack of specialists in the UK huh?
Expenditures as a % of GDP 8.6%(UK), 15.8%(USA). WOW twice as expensive!!! We must be living longer right? with all that rationed care.
Life expectancy 77.6(USA), 79.6 (UK) WOW hard to believe those dog gone numbers right?

Infant mortality-deaths per 100k live births- 5.0 (UK), 6.7(USA)

Boy I would say that Britan steamrolls us, how can that be with all of that socialized medicine? Rationed care? If you actually read comments by British Citizens posted on sites like Yahoo answers that tend to show NO bias, its overwhelmingly positive and they overwhelmingly hat the US mischarecterization of their system.

Britan?
Naturally, the British didn’t cotton to having their healthcare system conscripted to serve as a bogeyman. You see, not only are the British not currently being stomped on by the heel of a socialist-fascist-whatever Orwellian dictatorship, they actually quite like the way things over there work. In the U.K., the National Health Service (NHS) plays approximately the political role that Social Security does here. Sure, it may have been controversial to establish: Although Winston Churchill helped lay the groundwork for the NHS, he also warned during the 1945 campaign that the Labour Party’s welfare state ideas would require “some kind of Gestapo” to administer. (Sound familiar?) But once it was written into law, messing with the NHS became political poison. Even Margaret Thatcher, at the height of her power, never dared to try.

They love their system too, hmmm? Funny I asked them and they all think youre S L O W too.
Why dont we look at those dreaded statistical analyses that you really like to ignore.

Keeep listening Beebee I know how you despise statistics so skim if its too long for you-
France-The French can choose their doctors and see any specialist they want. Doctors in France, many of whom are self- employed, are free to prescribe any care they deem medically necessary. "The French approach suggests it is possible to solve the problem of financing universal coverage...[without] reorganizing the entire system," says Victor G. Rodwin, professor of health policy and management at New York University.

France also demonstrates that you can deliver stellar results with this mix of public and private financing. In a recent World Health Organization health-care ranking, France came in first, while the U.S. scored 37th, slightly better than Cuba and one notch above Slovenia. France's infant death rate is 3.9 per 1,000 live births, compared with 7 in the U.S., and average life expectancy is 79.4 years, two years more than in the U.S. The country has far more hospital beds and doctors per capita than America, and far lower rates of death from diabetes and heart disease. The difference in deaths from respiratory disease, an often preventable form of mortality, is particularly striking: 31.2 per 100,000 people in France, vs. 61.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.

That's not to say the French have solved all health-care riddles. Like every other nation, France is wrestling with runaway health-care inflation. That has led to some hefty tax hikes, and France is now considering U.S.-style health-maintenance organization tactics to rein in costs. Still, some 65% of French citizens express satisfaction with their system, compared with 40% of U.S. residents. And France spends just 10.7% of its gross domestic product on health care, while the U.S. lays out 16%, more than any other nation.

Costs less and works better, seems to be a theme developing here.

With a healthcare system that is so popular north of the border, you’d think we could learn at least a little something from Canada. American critics may call it socialized medicine, but what Canada has is really socialized insurance. Doctors run their own practices and do not work for the government, that is, medical delivery is private. Doctors bill the provinces under a single-payer system that is paid for via income tax and sales tax. All Canadians are covered and they pay no co-pays or deductibles, though they do pay a small monthly fee to the province, a fee that is often picked up by their employers. (Exact plan details vary by province.) Private insurers offer inexpensive add-on policies to cover those things that are not covered by the basic insurance, such as outpatient prescriptions and vision care. Again, exact details of what is or isn’t covered vary by province.

read carefully beebee,
Canada-70 percent of the respondents say that Canada’s healthcare system is working well (either very well or fairly well). Further, 82-percent of respondents said they preferred the Canadian system to the American system, which was favored by only 8 percent of respondents. The preference for the Canadian system was found across all demographics and in all parts of Canada.

They hate it cant you tell? Man living longer and having to pay half as much as suckers like you would be something to really hate.

gOd beebee you get more and more stupid with every post!! HAHA!! Socialized medicine works. Rationed care is mythical at best and just false at worst. I am a moron? Massachustetts doesnt have socialized care you just aren't a very bright bulb are you? You may not be glued to Fox but someone sure is programming you!
All you have to see is that EVERY single nation with "rationed" socialized medicine has better health numbers in almost EVERY aspect!! Wonder why life expectancy is better in almost EVERY single country that has it. BTW every single country that you just mentioned LOVES their health care system! So what are you atlking about? Ask them? You need to use google and read a little before spouting off all of this meaningless rhetoric, because your brain isn't working very quickly, kinda s l o w arent ya??

How can anyone vote for politicians whose only answer for all of our problems is "tax cuts." Want to cure unemployment? Tax cut the rich. Want to balance the budget? Tax cut the rich. Want to pay down our debt? Tax cut the rich. Want to stop poverty? Tax cut the rich. Want to improve education? Tax cut the rich. Want better medical care? Tax cut the rich. Want to cure the housing problem? Tax cut the rich.

Kaystew likes The Pizza Man because he says-"No bills longer than 3 pages" , right up your intellectual alley! Although 3 pages is a long time for you to focus, I amsure you could skim it well, you seem to be good at that.

How can anyone vote for any of these bastards with a clear conscious? I certainly cannot. I used to vote for repubs, cant do it anymore. I got suckered by Obummer, wont do it again.
WHat I dont get is how anyone can subscribe so blindly to partisan rhetoric, no matter what. People like kaystew, and beebee just dont have brains of their own. When presented with fact they just deny and make excuses. So we know no matter what they vote R every stinking time no matter what, sad really.
My question to any of you hard line righties that think your ideas are so correct is; Who will you vote for in this primary and if they dont win who wouldnt you vote for in the general?
I will be casting my vote for Buddy Roemer as a primary and a write in!

funny , more "unsubstantiated rhetoric" from bebe the zombie! Want to soolve health care- nationalize it , single payer , it works, and its cheaper. Want to solve the employment problem? repeal all free and unfair trade deals NOW, companies will be certainly still profit and be just fine, they were for GENERATIONS before, they would be just fine when they come back, the upper management might take a hit salary wise but they would be fine. Now we have a STRONG vibrant middle class , working, consuming , and not going broke paying for health care. With all of the unemployed working , we could afford a tax cut for all! Notice bebe I said tax cut, and fund all of the terrible essentials or as these weird right wingers like to call them entitlements. Never once did I say tax the rich, I DO NOT believe that is the answer, nor have I ever.
People like you are so caught up in BS ideologies and labelling everyone you cannot see the answers that are right in front of you. Instead you like to call people names make assumptions and use false terms like socialism to scare people into thinking your ideas are legitimate.
Countries all over the world have a nationalized health care system , that are capitalistic , democracies, NOT socialists. They are healthier, have better systems, and their standards of living are higher.
Unfortunately when confronted with facts all you seem to do is run away and make excuses.
Try independant thought bebe, the "left wing" and the "right wing" are not solely resonsible for the problems in this country , nor does either party have answers that will be viable solutions either. Ideologically isolated thought is the biggest problemin this nation.
The answers are there , corrupt thought along with politicians will never let us get there. Money controls everything including thought.
Just research statistics, they do tell a story. You may not like the results , buut many times they do make points that cannot be ignored, like bebe and others refuse to acknowledge.

Why would mr Ryan want to tax the rich. maybe because his family and friends are.that would be like taking money from his pockets. while us poor middle class are living pay check to pay check barely getting by. shame on him for thinking only of his family. and not the voters

@miltonlib-I would like to meet you someday too-how can you continually vote for liberals that do not defend your principals and continually sell you out;how can you support politicians that continually want you to be dependent on them for benefits such as welfare,unemployment compensation,and yet not have solutions to the unemployment problem in this country; how can you vote for politicians that have done everything in their power to prevent job creation in this country through ridiculous regulatory requirements,environmental barriers,etc; how can you vote for politicians that deplore our dependency on foreign oil yet obstruct all efforts at responsible energy production in our country; how can you vote for politicians whose only answer is to "tax the rich"-want to cure unemployment? Tax the rich. Want to stop poverty? Tax the rich. Want to improve education? Tax the rich. Want better medical care? Tax the rich. Want to cure the housing problem? Tax the rich. I assume that red hat you will be wearing will represent The Cat In The Hat.

kaysbrew and bebe53, I hope to meet one or both of you someday. It would be interesting to compare the words that you type to the words that come out of your mouths. I don't think the words out of your mouths could be any dumber than the words you type. But, I will be at the Buffalo Wild Wings tonight at about 7:00. I hope to meet one of you there. I would really like one of you to tell me how, assuming neither of you are multi, multi-millionaires, a person continuously supports the GOP and votes against their economic interests. I will be wearing a red hat. I look forward to a stimulating conversation. And if you are multi, multi-millionaires, you can buy my dinner! I will be eating a lot and thanks in advance!

Sorry for the butchered comment. There were other variables involved...

Their were other variales involved, bu the rebate checks had a bigger impact on creating jobs then the tax cuts did. When those demand side rebate checks were done, unemployment starting inching upward, while those tax cuts were in full swing. Then the meltdown came and unemployment accelerated. Obama has got to turn this thing around and get away from supply-side voodoo economics of Ryan and Republicans.

Wow. Seems like this article suddenly got very popular!

SB lol that was actually pretty good for your level reality. I don't believe for one minute however, that you are a nurse. You are much to immature in your postings.

@fear-yes,really! You can quantify "job creation"-exactly what methodology do you use to quantify "jobs saved"???
And the CBO?-the same CBO that declared that Obamacare is revenue neutral???? Please-spare me the B.S. rhetoric-

"He guaranteed stagnation by extending the Bush/Ryan tax policy."

Obubulus injected more poison into the economy by running the money printing machines 24 hours day.

Yes, Bush started to become more liberal in his last days but Oblunder continued it.

It is exsanguination of taxpayer money of the highest order.

Fear - give me a break. You couldn't possibly read the article as you are too into your own head. Didn't you get enough hugs as a child?

Unsubstantiated rhetoric? Really? But you believe your politicians when they tell you the recovery act created or saved zero jobs? Are you serious? Remember tis isnt MSNBC or Fox here its the Congressional Budget Office.
My question is bebe why do you believe any of your treasured candidates then? Wouldn't it be the exact same rhetoric when they say the stimulus failed? Or do you believe them when they tell you because it is a friendly political ideology?
Dont talk about "unsubstanitiated rhetoric" then if you believe the recovery act failed, because statistics DO NOT bear that out. And if no one knows one way or the other, as you JUST SAID YOURSELF, then you cannot talk of failure because that is the same exact rhetoric.

That is an artificial rule put forth by those who's thoughts are simple enough to be copied from a tweet they received.
.
Iteach4u - I liked your post. What I don't like is for the right wing leaders to be picking the winners and the losers like they accuse others of doing. And thank you for all of your hard work and dedication in teaching our future generations.

Also those dog gone statistics always seem to get in the way of the rhetroic dont they? Unless of course you can use them to your advantage(Obummer) but when the same thing happens to your eagle scout, then you change the argument and shift blame, makes me laugh!!

@fear-all numbers that are based on nothing more than pure guess work-at the end of the day nobody knows how many jobs were "saved"-except maybe Joe Biden-I'm disappointed -I expect more from you than just unsubstantiated rhetoric

Kay you dont read the whole article, dont lie. That would require focus. Politifact rates you as "pants on Fire!"

We have rules, no posting with more words then the article. You are not that important

fear - I agree they don't read the links. Gives them headaches I suspect. So they run or change the subject - but usually denigrate or call others names when they know they have lost. So I take the name calling as capitulation on their part.

It’s not right that public-sector workers should get better benefits than the people who pay the taxes to support those benefits, Ryan said.
So because we chose a career in the public sector, we should have lesser benefits than any other taxpayer? We pay taxes too.So we pay for a portion of our own wages and benefits through our taxes. And even though some people would like to paint a picture of lazy public workers leeching off of the taxpayers, some of us work very hard for MUCH less than we could have made in a private sector job, but the benefits were a balancing factor. Now we should give up those benefits. Will our pay also have to be less than any other taxpayer next? Can we factor in the hundreds of dollars many of us pay back in student loans every month and the costs required to keep a license?

Private sector businesses may not have to show that they use tax money to pay their expenses and employee wages and benefits as public entities do, but you have to know that the public STILL pays for those things. They just pay in the cost of goods and services. AND many private sector businesses DO get tax money in the form of business tax reductions and credits.

So, Mr. Ryan, do you mean that YOU and all other public employees should make less and have lesser benefits than any other tax payer? Does that mean everyone in the United states who pays taxes should all make EQUAL wages and have EQUAL benefits, regardless of their education, training, experience, or position?

SarahB1
Nov 4, 2011 at 1:27 p.m.
By the way, bebe ... are you related to kaysbrew? Just wondering.

Obsessed with me again... so flattering

CBO: Between 1.3 million and 3.6 million jobs saved or created.

• IHS/Global Insight: 2.45 million jobs saved or created.

• Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.3 million jobs saved or created.

• Moody’s Economy.com: 2.5 million jobs saved or created
Politifact says: no jobs from the stimulus?
LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!!!!!

Myviews, the problem is that posters like beb wont even follow the links, because they are afraid of what they might read, or skim!:)

Why do I support him?
"His anger is palpable as he explains why nothing has been done to address China’s unfair trade policies that cost America millions of jobs.

“Obama won’t do it, no one will do it, because that would hurt the big corporate contributors whose money runs the system.”

Roemer describes that system as totally “corrupt’ and “decadent.”

remember he is a REPUBLICAN. One who cares about AMERICA, not MONEY. A very principaled man, very rare in todays politics.

Read if you can:
http://www.buddyroemer.com/posts/the-ste...

Ill help you out Bebe:
http://www.buddyroemer.com/
Just click and you can find out all you need to know. I am going to send him a check, might be a waste of time , but not if I believe in what he stands for......and I do.

A little test then bebe......are these all false reports? As they have a range of numbers, do you consider the number to be zero then? Perry tried that one...if you have better research than politifact, please share it. I would be happy to consider your work.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/politic...
.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/08/news/eco...
.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

Obama IS a sellout, that is one thing we will agree on Bebe. Totally and complete, but NONE of the candidates you will vote for aren't. There is a republicant that is running that I want to vote for but your party hasn't the courage to put him up. Buddy Roemer! You wont hear about him on WTMJ or on Rush's show though, youlll have to use google.
Heck Id vote for Ron Paul, at least I can believe what he says! The repubs are afraid of him too, why? He is an honest guy, a little nutty but my god who isn't these days?

Sarah-then how do you explain/forgive Obama for his statement that you can't rsiae taxes during a recession? Guess the fact he sold you out is OK

Are you related to mouse? Are you married to concerned??

Sarah Lets be fair here Obummer wasnt held hostage by anyone, he had complete power and did not repeal those tax cuts as he should have, he was a chicken. Had he done so the economy would not be headed down the crapper again.
Bebe- you just refuse to make any type of intelligent factual arguments. Using terms like "messiah" and calling a Harvard grad and Constitutional Law professor stupid kinda tells your story doesnt it? If you judged Walker with the same predudice that you hold Obama to you would be all for the recall. That being said, are you blaming Obummer for the 750,000 jobs a month that were being shed during the first 6 months after he too the oath? Him making a claim about unemployment not dropping below 8% was a sensationalistic promise that he certainly couldn't keep. Kinda like 250,000 jobs in the private sector, get it? The thing is , that you are so blinded by your partisanship that you fail to make any type of argument that is consistent or makes sense. All you seem to do is use repetetive rhetoric that I have heard on certain radio shows, and call opponents names.
When holding politicians accontable try holding them all accountable, not just the ones that radio/tv hosts tell you to. Unemployment in Wisconsin has RISEN since the Governor took office by a half a percent from 7.4 to 7.9. Spending has risen by over a billion dollars!! My property taxes have gone up while corporate taxes have dropped, yet higher unemployment? Why is that? My guess is that you blame it on the "Messiah" and you have the nerve to call me arrogant? You really need to do some of your own research, hard to argue with zombies that repeat garbage.

@ykm-The unemployment rate dropped over 1.5% because of $400-$600 rebate checks???????Are you friggin' serious?
@myviews-sorry but you have an obvious comprehension issue otherwise there is no valid reason for the question you asked to begin with

Bush initiated a "stimulus" program first. Remember those $400 and $600 taxpayer refunds? That's why the unemployment went down slightly at first. If tax cuts don't solely create jobs, you've got the entire GOP party against you on that one. Oh, yeah I almost forgot. Deregulation also creates jobs!! LOL. When Democrats proposed to sunset the top end Bush/Ryan tax cuts as a stand alone bill, why did Republicans vote NO? Obama made a mistake compromising with the GOP's jobless ransom in that deal. He guaranteed stagnation by extending the Bush/Ryan tax policy.

bebe - "obviously you failed comprehension exams in school" That is conjecture on your part and there is no way for you to verify it - do you accept that as being true or was it just name calling because you have no real argument or can't back up your position with facts or logic?
.
Now, how about an intelligent response to the well thought through responses that have been provided by youkillme, fearandrhetoric4dummies, concernedperson and others out here? They back there comments up with common sources and logic. They don't just resort to name calling which seems to be so prevalent from the neo-con side.

@ykm-to ascribe today's jobless numbers SOLELY to tax cuts is an idiotic argument and you know it.Then why did the jobless rate fall to roughly 4.5% after the tax cuts were initiated and why was the jobless rate still around 6% at the end of Bush's term?And why-after promising that the jobless rate would be no higher than 8% has your Messiah not improved it? And which president also insisted that those tax cuts remain in place?

@myviews2-no,that is not what I said-obviously you failed comprehension exams in school-what I am saying is that any estimate of "jobs saved" is based on pure conjecture and guesses that cannot be verified.Is that clear enough now for you to understand?

Bebe53, I would suppose there is no way in hell you can verify how many jobs have not been created directly because of Obama. But we can verify that since the Bush/Ryan tax cuts took effect in 2003, the unemployment rate was 6.2%, now in the ninth year of those cuts, unemployment is 9.1%, so where's the evidence that these tax cuts created jobs? Why did Ryan claim the country could not afford $38 billion in unemployment compensation, but dropped that claim the moment his tax cuts were thrown into the mix growing our debt another $858 billion?

so in other words, you will not beleive anything you don't want to believe?

There is no criteria out there to validate in any way/shape/form "the number of jobs saved"-any one who argues otherwise is lying through their teeth and living in a fantasy land

bebe53 - can you provide the criteria that would make you believe the numbers?

@fear-what pomposity and arrogance -as usual. There is no way in hell that you can verify "the number of jobs saved".How many have we not created because of Obama's stupidity???? Do you have an answer for that one?

"Send everybody a check so they can go out and buy a flat screen! Or buy some food, or pay the electric bill."

In the name of moral superiority, did you send your check back?

Argue all you want if stimulus has worked or not. What should be quite clear is that all the stimulus does not SUSTAIN real organic growth. Once stimulus is removed all we do is head right back to negative growth. The entire "growth", GDP wise, the past decade has been a complete illusion. None of it is real organic growth, and simply just an illusion of growth from massive governmnet stimulus, via borrowed and or printed $$$, which all parties have been partaking in now. There has been no real organic growth for well over a decade now. The situation we are in now has really become one of ENDLESS stimulus. Enough to keep the economy muttering along at a stagnant pace, with ultra high unemployment. All the while piling onto the national debt, and keep kicking the can down the road, as the stimulus will obviously never end at this point. Everything in the private sector is now so reliant on government "stimulus" AKA corporate welfare. It really won't end until you have a major debt related collapse, where no one is left to bail you out.

Vato- Maybe the Bush stimulus was a better idea. Send everybody a check so they can go out and buy a flat screen! Or buy some food, or pay the electric bill. That one was brilliant right? Your hatred for the Obummer stimulus plan is wrapped in partisan rhetoric. The CBO says that we would have fallen off the cliff without it.
My question to you is, how bad did you want things to get? Depression? Soup lines? before someone intervened? You can throw it round all you like , but between the auto bailout and the recovery act , the workforce in this nation prolly saved 3.5 million jobs!! Ill say that is worth the price tag to me. Try to remember that the auto bailout was first enacted by GWB, not Obummer.

"My problem with Obama is that he has not been able to institute his own economic and tax policy"
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Why? His party controlled both houses for his first two years in office. They pushed through trillions in new spending and a new entitlement program the country can't afford. What more magic was there he wanted to do?

"...started this mess by giving out tax breaks the country could not afford"
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Yet you gleefully have kept your money all these years paying the lower rate of taxation. If you really wanted to pay more you could have. Declaring you want others to pay more when this whole time you didn't declares your position very clearly...

Ayn Rand condemned libertarianism as being a greater threat to freedom and capitalism than both modern liberalism and conservativism. From your posts, RLOT, I can understand why.

Those were quotes from below, concernedperson, in case you hadn't notice. Vote Libertarian.

And in addition, once skewed by the victors or those in power, those that are born afterwards are born into it, and forget the truth or are taught the lies and are brainwashed. For example, Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas corpus, and killed the 10th Ammendment to end slavery, only to make slaves of the states that the 10th Ammendment protected. And he's one of our greatest presidents???? He was the WORST president until Jimmy Carter, and perhaps Obama. Just my opinion.

History is always written by the victors, or those in power.

Robot: Do you call the history books "liars" too?

"Go ahead and vote for any Republican. That's fine but know that when you do that, you are voting against yourself unless you are in the upper 1%."
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"The Dimwit Demos have been using the slogan "tax to save society" since FDR and accelerated during the Johnson presidency and yet they are still not happy? How is this society ever going to change when the government keeps negatively influencing an entitlement mentality?"
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VOTE LIBERTARIAN. :D

"But Republicans better find a better slogan than "tax the poor"

The Dimwit Demos have been using the slogan "tax to save society" since FDR and accelerated during the Johnson presidency and yet they are still not happy?

How is this society ever going to change when the government keeps negatively influencing an entitlement mentality?

Youkillme: I will agree with you on that one. Great post.

Bowlgal: Are you calling US history books "liars?" Just wonderin.

"My problem with Obama is that he has not been able to institute his own economic and tax policy without paying a ransom to the Republicans"

What was the 787 billion dollar Obubulus plan?

Was it not an economic policy?

Bowlgal, there are many people who said they will not vote for Ryan again. My problem with Obama is that he has not been able to institute his own economic and tax policy without paying a ransom to the Republicans. Despite stimulus injections, our economy is running and declining on the GOP/Bush policies of the past. But Republicans better find a better slogan than "tax the poor."

I will point out again that Obama is not to blame for this. George Bush Jr. started this mess by giving out tax breaks the country could not afford and partly because of the 2 wars he created that were unfunded. He is the first president in US history to not raise taxes when he created a war. Even his father, Bush Sr., knew that when we went into Iraq, that he had to raise taxes and he did. Then medicare part D was unfunded also. And they were not included in the budget. I am sorry that you cannot see what really happened here.
Our senior citizens are not to blame for this mess but Republicans see it that way. Republican selfishness will be our downfall. Go ahead and vote for any Republican. That's fine but know that when you do that, you are voting against yourself unless you are in the upper 1%.

How many of you even know that the top 1% is anyone making over $385,000.00 and the top 10% is just $50,000.00? The Democrats better find a better campaign slogan then "tax the rich".
I just read an article the Reagan and FDR inherited a worse economy then Obama and yet with different political tactics were able to pull the country out of the mess. Obama has put the country in 2nd world status and on the brink of total collapse.
I will vote for Paul Ryan and any Republican that wins the nominee to oppose Obama. Polls show that I am not the only one who has already made up there minds not to vote again for him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-fo...

Third_Eye, do you have any proof or video where Ryan rebuffs or rebukes Ayn Rand or any of her ideas? Opinion blogs and such don't count. Ayn Rand's novels are based and extrapolated from her personal beliefs. I didn't mix them together, Rand and Ryan did.

"If you read one of Bill O'Reilly's many books, do you then believe everything Bill O'Reilly believes. If you read one of his books would it cause you to join the Catholic Church?"--------------------- That would be up to the reader. O'Reilly's books too are built on his own beliefs and life experiences. If I read O'Reilly's books and said that's the kind of thinking and writing we need right now, there should be little doubt about the bond we share together on those issues.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/...

Thirdeye: He has stated this openly many times about what his beliefs are. You can't deny this.

Another link that didn't work. Let's try this again.

www.guardian.co.uk/.../cifamerica/.../te......

youkillme: QUOTE "He breathes and lives by her bizarre doctrine..." END QUOTE
And you have documentation or proof of this?

youkillme: You mix the author with the novel as if they are one and the same. Authors have their own beliefs and the novels they write might be influenced by those beliefs but are not ABOUT those beliefs.
If you read one of Bill O'Reilly's many books, do you then believe everything Bill O'Reilly believes. If you read one of his books would it cause you to join the Catholic Church?

Youkillme: Great post. How true your statement is.

www.guardian.co.uk/.../cifamerica/.../te......

Paul Ryan simply doesn't read Ayn Rand as a novelty. He breathes and lives by her bizarre doctrine. All of Ryan's proposals are based on her cultural shifting fictional writings. Even when Ryan voted for TARP, he had to find a way to reconcile his government intervention of the free markets with Rand ideology. So he later claimed he voted for TARP because if he did not, it would have ushered in Obama's liberal fascism. Talk about making stuff up. So, without the collectivist system of government to save capitalism, we otherwise would have Obama Facsism. Third_Eye, your analogy from Atlas Shrugged about "eating the seed corn is the same as taxing the rich" is typical of Randian thinking. Think of seed corn as labor since all wealth comes from labor. Myself, I'd prefer Lincoln over Rand anytime. "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -- Honest Abe.
When Ayn Rand was asked "You are out to destroy almost every edifice in the contemporary American way of life, our Judeo-Christian religion, our modified government regulated capitalism, our rule by the majority will, and you scorn churches and the concept of God. Are these accurate criticisms?
She answered with a confident "yes!" I don't think you can find another person who would have said yes to that statement. Not even Bin Laden since he believed in God. In regards to the ideology and writings of Ayn Rand, Ryan said, "it's that kind of thinking and that kind of writing that's needed right now." I think anybody who thinks like that is danger to freedom and the U.S. http://www.youtube.com/user/smallaxe100?...

The Bible warns against selfishness and greed. That is part of the Rand philosophy. That is just one of the reasons I have a problem with it. Obviously, one who follows these theories does not know the Bible very well.

As I stated cp, it's the lessons you don't like. They are counter to your leftist beliefs.
Do you only read authors that have a certain 'purity' in your eyes?

Third Eye: Bad lessons to learn, bad, bad lessons to learn.

Mr. Ryan has openly stated on more than one occasion this is what he believes. No, he does not become the author. My point is: this belief is un-Christian and it flies in the face of Christianity. This belief is totally backwards from what Christians believe.

Maybe this will work.

http://www.alternet.org/news/148407/ayn_...

So cp let me understand this. Paul Ryan reads a book and BECOMES the author? Does that mean that if I read Charles Dickens I become Charles Dickens?
Did it ever occur to you that there are lessons to be learned about the extremes of liberalism in Ayn Rand's writings, especially "Atlas Shrugged".
As an analogy for you, the part in "Atlas Shrugged" about eating the seed corn is the same as taxing the rich.
Your objection is not with Paul Ryan reading Ayn Rand, your objection is to the lessons he might learn by reading Ayn Rand.

This subject was brought up at the listening session so it is relevant, about what Mr. Ryan believes.

Tuchas, are you screaming at me, or Fear???

Sorry, you cannot mix Ryan's plan for America with the theories of an atheist. No way, no how.

www.politicalruminations.com/ayn-rand-co...

nor does "page not found"

concernedperson Nov 3, 2011 at 8:36 a.m.
NO CP, this article is about the listening session, not about your pet subject Ayn Rand.
Since you are on your high horse, how about some documentation on your accusations against Ryan. Opinion articles/blogs don't count.

www.alternet.org/.../ayn_rand_conservati......

Concerned

What is your theory, that sloths depend on the competent to succeed?

And no, I am not calling the elderly, disabled, and mentally handicapped sloths.

I am referring to the won't do crowd.

Forget the website, wislady. Walker is trying to make himself look good and it is not working.

This article is about Ryan, remember, the guy who bases his plan for America on the theories of an atheist who believes in every man for himself, objectivism, oh, and the poor and the needy don't deserve love.

Medicare, medicaid and social security do not need to be cut and Paul Ryan knows it. He just won't accept the fact that this country needs more revenue and that the upper 1% need to pay more taxes.

http://www.reforms.wi.gov/index.asp?loci...

Fear...WOW! ROLT (LOTR) is like your dopleganger. He appears like a DM in some D&D LARP game that I know. So LOTR, (I mean ROLT) it seems that the best way to deal with us middle class folks that work hard all our lives (just to squeak by on a meager retirement that never lasts until we are dead) should be left behind by our tribe for the wolves when we can no longer stand to greet customers at WalMart because we never took responsibility for ourselves? Take it easy, guy. My kid might be wiping your Ay ESS ESS in the nursing home when your retirement disappears. I believe they should make prescription bottles for adderal too slim for fat fingered parents (GOPS)that support medication as a substitute for parenting...

The subject of Ayn Rand and Paul Ryan is not dead. It is alive and well.

I am really surprised no one has brought up the subject of Ayn Rand. Any takers? C'mon people, talk about it.

YKM, you are correct. I listened to someone who told me that and I believed it. THAT won't happen again. My apologies. I think that he meant Iraq because Obama said if elected he'd remove a brigade a month until we were gone. Life is going to hell with me right now. I'm saying things that are not true based upon things other people TOLD me, and I actually like cats because our cat just caught a third mouse in our house (new house, full of them to begin with....). Before I know it, I'm going to support Obama for President in 2012. I might just as well end it now.......I'm turning into a cat person....

Sounds like he needs to do some cleaning up of Lake Michigan.
His polloution buddies are showing there true colors.
Then again it's ony polloution, what does that matter to Ryan?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...
The Republicans passed simular approval on this stuff a few weeks ago.
Nice!
This is what Ryan believes in?

God willing ...we won't have to worry about that after November 2012.

I simply wish Mr. Ryan would use his listening sessions to actually LISTEN to his constituents. He could schedule his talking sessions at another time.

RLOT repeatedly writes -- "He (Obama) said he'd get us out of Afghanistan, he lied." ------------ Not true. While on the campaign trail, Obama said that Afghanistan, not Iraq, should have been the primary focus in the war against terror, and called for sending thousands more US troops to Afghanistan.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/poli...

http://rootriversiren.blogspot.com/2011/...

Do you notice in the article how the Congressman always agrees with what the person is saying, or compliments their thoughts, then totally disagrees with them? I like what you are saying, so I'm voting against it. Smooth...or slimy.

http://rootriversiren.blogspot.com/2011/...

Who was it that said, "You can't fool an old fool?"

RoboLord, you have been well fooled.

hahaha

And poobah.......you are a liar. You are a girl, and I know it. Your sentence structure is girlish, as are your semantics. And especially your politics. I don't need to go there. You're as guilty of that as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo. If you really are a guy, I'm well fooled by your deception. But I am not. But if that's true, really, If you are really a guy, why would you try to pass yourself off as a girl then? Why the deception?

baegucb
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Skittle.

"Robot_Lord, I'm a male. Do you still love me?"
=
Silly question. Gender means nothing in the first place. Love is in the eye of the beholder, or mind, and in that case, I think I've made myself pretty clear that I don't love communism. Hence, communists need not apply for love or anything else. Let them know that if they can let me live my life like I do, without trying to change me, I can let them live as well. My word holds a lot of salt. I have no truck with communists as long as they leave the rest of us alone and don't try to make us live like they do.

troll

I just got done downing a pint of salsa verde. What did you say? You think you're a guy now? Don't bait me. It's unbecomming of you. If you are a heroin (that's on porpoise, Poobah)
of women's suffrage, as your posts suggest, ???. Buffalo Bill? It's halloween, so it fits, I guess.

Robot_Lord, I'm a male. Do you still love me?

Get it. Meh.

as I said, nutcases. Who needs copper? Like it's not getting stripped out of every available place possible by thieves? And the internet runs on magical fairies who carry a person's comments over the ether.

And no, shut up Poobah. I porpoiselely misspellt that word. Afgainistan. That's what it is about. It is in the smoke.

so many people. so many nuts. I hope they are all carrying a concealed weapon and use them. And vote for Cain or Bachmann or Perry.

Fear, I said the same thing about Afgainistan when I was there. On gz. They deleted it. I said that before they even admitted it. China has the contract on the world's largest copper mine. We didn't bid high enough. But what good is copper, anyway. I mean really......

I would also contend to this day that the USA and the Bush administration may not have directly participated in it, but were well aware that september 11 was coming and wanted it to happen. Like RLOT said, if you don't know , then ask why.

WOW!RLOT must be smoking crack today or something. I know we are in Afghanistan permanently, knew it the day we went there, and anyone who doesn't know why sopuld know, its not hard to figure out. Like anything follow the money trail. Maybe because the Afghan mountains hold the worlds largest deposits of nickel and lithium? Trillions of dollars worth? Maybe its part geopolitics? But its no secret that we are there forever. I thought that about Iraq as well. ESpecially with the huge expensive military bases we built there.

RLOT we actually are prolly closer than you think on Wars. I just think that once we start holding administrations responsible for getting us into war based on false pretense, they should be held to account. Including being tried for war crimes. Thousands of American soldiers dead, tens of thousands permanently maimed. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of dead arabs, and people wonder why they hate us and will for generations?

Oh, I'm sorry, did I include an "H"??? My bad. Kid slang, you know.

FDR knew the Japanese were coming to attack Perl Harbor to justify getting into World War II.

baegucb
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Learn English. Poohbah can help you. She's hard, but she is also fair. Trust her in that. You'll do better.

Of course you don't beazulbub.

"I voted for GW both times and IMO Collen Powell also believed false info provided by the CIA."

Obama has provided perpetual false info about the economy.

Spam is good with eggs and corn tortillas.

I'll stay up as long as you will, nartard.

poobah: I think Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo has had one too many Mountain Dews. I have no idea what he's saying. tl;dr

Fear. You don't get it. American presidents foment war. It's their job. The current one is no diff. That's one of my points. He said he'd get us out of Afghanistan, he lied. I watched them build dorm rooms for the Air Force. We are not just going to let those 14 Million dollar buildings go quietly into that goodbye. We are there to stay. Ask why.

Are you? I'll answer that question when you tell me why the compassion of America is equivocal with the loss of American ingenuity and jobs. America goes to war. What's it get us? Mercedes-Benz's, and Japanese tech based upon our rebuild of their country after we bombed it into the stone age? In 1945, GM in Janesville was one of the most technologically advanced production plants in the country. In 1965, it was in decline. No one ever bombed it. In the movie "The Mouse that Roared," do you think they would have done the same thing to the world that we've done? We borrow money from our foreign enemies in the name of foreign policy. How wierd is that, and we're not even from Holland? Answer that one.

baegucb, as you can see, Robot_Lord_Of_Tokyo tries to compensate for the ineffectiveness of his comments with the quantity of his words and a vicious spiral ensues until he finally exhausts himself.

Lotsa trash talking garble. Just hysterical people. cheesh. All a bunch of damn commies!!
I hope that "fact check" article isn't your proof that the Bush admin didn't push us into this war based on false intel. I hope you have more than that. Please don't just shift blame over to the CIA, why is it that its always someone elses fault when its a politician you agree with?

SPAM is actually not that bad. I prefer Corned Beef in a can, but will take SPAM when available. Corned Beef was the main ration of WWI Americans in France. SPAM was created as a stop-gap measure to feed England when protein was at a severe disadvantage. Like marmite, for some reason, they grew to like it and hate it at the same time. That will go away, eventually, when the children who grew up in England during the war die off. SPAM will do the same. You need not fear. Hormel will tank at that point in time, and you'll probably have two or three relatives out of work.

And, as an an aperitif, Poobah, I'd like to add to my last post of the evening that if I thought you'd been there on October 15th, or that you'd ever done anything substantive regarding protesting wars, I'd respect that. Military men have been deploring war since well before I was born. Generals. Colonels. Enlisted men like me. War is a racket. It's a crutch for faltering economies. Hitler knew that, so he built his country back up in the fear of the great depression based upon socialism and public works projects based upon socialism. Roosevelt saw it as the best option to rebuild our country at a time, like many, when Americans had forgotten how horrible war really is. We could have taken care of Germany by ourselves. Instead, he made sure that both oceans were involved. Do you know why? If not, I'll prompt you. My wife's maiden name is Schultz. My mother's maiden name is Krause. It's better to start fighting people that don't have the same last name. It seems that it's a generational thing that is not mnemonic. We have to relearn our mistakes every 20 years or so. In the end, a lot of people are dead for no reason other than the vanity of a single man, or a plethora of people who blindly follow that man. Or woman. Margaret Thatcher ordered the invasion of the Falklands (again) in 1982. What the Brits want from that Galapagos-looking economic wasteland of islands, I don't think they even know. It was pride. That's it. How becomming was that. Apparently, death for no reason becomes us all. Most people don't want to know that, however.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo: spam much?

It's called sarcasm, Clarice. No, you didn't say that. It's meant only to illustrate your anachronistic nature. It's a take-off on the conversation between Hannibal Lector and Clarice Starling, Clarice. I'm the monster, of course. How appropos to Halloween, wouldn't you agree, Clarice?

Fact Check: "Looking back, it is now clear that much of what is quoted in this ad was, even in context, false or misleading. To say Bush and the others "lied," however, requires evidence that they knew the intelligence they were getting was wrong. The unanimous finding of the Intelligence Commission argues against that idea." http://www.factcheck.org/iraq/anti-war_a...
I voted for GW both times and IMO Collen Powell also believed false info provided by the CIA.

I want people to know that the post by Robot_Lord_Of_Tokyo on October 31, 2011 at 6:35 p.m. attributes words to me that I never said and portrays a conversation that never took place.

"Robot: Your son is 8, right? It's after 8:30 p.m. and he's up playing some silly wii game. Don't you think that he might have a better day at school tomorrow (actually, today) if he were in bed or doing something more conducive to winding down his day (such as reading a book in bed)? Just trying to offer some friendly advice here."
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Meant to get back to this, Sarah, I was just having too much fun otherwise. Thank you for your suggestion. It was after 8:30 when you wrote that, I think. He has ADHD, and his medications don't allow him to go to bed much earlier than 8:30 p.m. or so. We have to augment that with melatonin, but that doesn't help much. Between my wife and I, we both get about 4-6 hours of sleep a night, uninterrupted. My son does indeed read books, likes it, enjoys it, and is well above his grade level. He doesn't enjoy reading as much as I did when I was his age, but I'm working on it. To each his own if he doesn't. I won't force him. He has a certain proclivity as to reading. Good. I don't think that he's going to read The Ra Expeditions at age 8, however.

Robot: First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek?
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Poobah: He belittles women...
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Robot: No. That is incidental. What is the first and principal thing he does? What needs does he serve by belittling women
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Poohbah: Anger, um, social acceptance, and, huh, political frustrations, sir...
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Robot: No! He hates communists. That is his nature. And how do we begin to hate communism, Clarice? Do we seek out communism to hate? Make an effort to answer now.
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Poohbah: No. We just...
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Robot: No. We begin by hating communism based upon what we see every day. Don't you feel other people taking over you and the life of your family, Clarice? And don't your eyes seek out the things that communism wants?

I enjoy this, too, YKM. I've been brainwashed for so many years by the industrial military complex so as not to be offended by hypocrites, bongo-playing liberal neophites, and completely idiotic, disenfranchised, over-middle-aged nostalgics. We actually have to go to training for that, you know. The later is the hardest part. There's no way to deal with an idiotic, disenfranchised, over-middle-age nostalgic. Except for sarcasm.....My favorite. Sarcasm is the best way to make fun of people without them realizing it. You guys are like cannon-fodder. Pickett's Charge, all the time.

See, told you.

"But I also enjoy it more when it goes beyond the usual smears, name-calling and obnoxious ignorance and into raw hate"
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From the mouths of babes. Well, I don't think you are both babes. I assume you are both ugly women who secretly loathe yourselves, but that's just an opinion. If it helps me deal with you, I'm going with that.....
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"Lord_of_the_Flies, since you are such a courageous and outspoken anti-war and anti-occupation patriot and qualify an individual's anti-war sentiments with their attendance at anti-war rallies: How many anti-war war rallies have you attended"
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I rest my case. You forget yourselves, or are complete hypocrites. I'd call you idiots, but I don't want to insult idiots.
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And in relation to anti-war rallies. No, I don't attend them regularly. But I did attend the occupy Afghanistan event for a year, and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a couple of times.

Flies, If you or anyone takes offense by what I wrote, that's your problem. How you say, "and there is probably a good reason for it."

"without parroting Fox News or Beck.
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I don't do that. But I am a member of the military industrial complex. Why don't you just admit that you hate the military and be done with it, or do I have to get out of the military and get hit with a brick or some similar object first so you can raise your blue fists in the air with confidence and say "See!! The military robots have been reprogrammed our way!! All is well!! See??" "Oh, and they hurt him. BAD!! It's the military complex police that did it. Down with Bush!! Down with jobs!! Oh, wait...."

"When their "facts" fall to the scrutiny of reason they resort to name calling and snide remarks."
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Imagine the cat commercials where the cat goes "WHAT??" You mean name calling and snide belittling remarks like are just below you from youkillme aimed at me?? You have a couple in there too, oh lighthouse of peace, spelling and grammar correction, and coexistence. Those the ones you're talking about??? Look down. Hypocrites.

AP Top News at 6:33 p.m. EDT
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Scariest Halloween costume of 2011 is youkillme. Number 2 is Poobah.
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Costume: An outfit or a disguise worn on Mardi Gras, Halloween, or similar occasions.
Sometimes worn in everyday life.
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Ooooooh. I can't wait to see what you say to THAT, Clarice.

I don't Poobah. To be perfectly honest as always, I enjoy it. I would rather have them formulate a explanation for their beliefs based on some semblance of facts without parroting Fox News or Beck. But I also enjoy it more when it goes beyond the usual smears, name-calling and obnoxious ignorance and into raw hate. Sounds crazy, but I welcome their hate.

youkillme, don't let these nasty, belittling comments get to you. It's standard fare from this pool of people you're dealing with. When their "facts" fall to the scrutiny of reason they resort to name calling and snide remarks. Thanks for your comments.

youkillme-I know a psychiatrist who could treat you for your ridiculous ability to deny any semblance of real facts-however I think you truly enjoy living in your fantasy land

That was old intelligence from the 90's and many congressionals later were repeating the lies they heard during briefings from the Bush Administration. In Feb. 2002, Powell showed up-to-date before-and-after intelligence photos of dismantled and swept-clean WMD facilities. They spun around it to claim Iraq had WMD's despite much intelligence claiming they had none.

@youkillme-obviously your brain issue has allowed you to conveniently forget/ignore/choose not to remember all the liberals(especially Bill Clinton) who also told us that Saddam possessed WMD-so they were lying also-correct??And I would assume that you would disdain them just as much-

youkillme: You might start by reviewing speeches given on the Senate floor by then Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and also Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass) regarding WMD's. That would have been in the late 90's or the early 2000's

youkillme said blah blah blah blah. meh.
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(as usual)

So I'll take as a zero. You don't participate in anti-war rallies. The rest of your dribble, meh...

Courageous?? You kill me.....
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One. I was there part of the time listening, but I wasn't marching or protesting. And no, I didn't go there specifically for the march. I was at the Historical Society most of the day doing research. Most of the march/event wasn't anti-war that I saw. It was more anti-walker, unionistas, socialists, and a bunch of unrelated crap. There were many more than 15-20 total people at the event, and many interested passers by, of course. Probably 75 participants total. But I only identified perhaps 15-20 people that were truly anti-war with any conviction. The rest were simply a bunch of, well, I'm not sure what they were, riding the convenient peace train created for thier personal enjoyment. And no, I was not in uniform nor was I carrying a sign. That is not allowed, and I wouldn't disprespect the uniform like that anyway. There is no need for me to be in uniform, anyway, just to make a point of it. I have a right to excercise my first ammendment rights because regardless of military affiliation, I am a citizen first. I don't have to be disrespectful to do so. All I did was talk to people because I was interested in learning about the event and the people there. Like I said, only a few I talked to think like I do and are objective enough to blame everyone responsible, including Obama, regardless of political affiliation. Other than that, meh.

"Oh thirty cops or thirty bottles of the best wine, what difference does it make?"

Drinketh of the wine...... for I shall taketh your medicare and social security. For it is a pretty sum that I can give to the wealthy on Wall St.
But Paul, what about the women and children? Do they deserve this treatment you so deliver them, for the sake of your own personal gains?
Paul look at your own blood line, do they deserve such treatment?
Why do you keep playing with these peoples lives this way, instead od doing that that your religion would asketh of you?

"The "lied us into the war" canard has been sliced, diced, and discredited years ago." ---------------- By who? When? How? Everything I've read about the run-up to the Iraq War shows Bush, Cheney and members of his administration lied us into war.

The "lied us into the war" canard has been sliced, diced, and discredited years ago.

Third_Eye, I realize you probably don't care whether a president lied us into war or not. I mean OMG. Afterall, it only took 4,481 American lives and what do you care. You're still around.

Lord_of_the_Flies, since you are such a courageous and outspoken anti-war and anti-occupation patriot and qualify an individual's anti-war sentiments with their attendance at anti-war rallies: How many anti-war war rallies have you attended? Were you one the 15 - 20 at the book store in Madison? Since you are exercising your 1st Ammendment rights and thinking independently in relation to military service, were you wearing your military uniform? How do you express your anti-war and occupation beliefs in the military?

Youkillme

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Thanks, you are welcome.

"lied us into war" ???? OMG!

Fly, We don't mock you for that. You mock your fellow Americans for that. You think the blame should be towards the person who you believe lied about getting us out of the wars? But if we point the blame three years later to the one that lied us into the wars in the first place - why we're partisan sheeples. Did you miss anything? You missed everything.

"they're paying you to ignore your true feelings. Just wonderful."
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Yeah, hard to believe that not everyone in the military loves killing people, huh? I love how you liberals think...(sarcasm). On one hand, you'll call service-people ROBOTS because we serve. We're brainwashed from boot camp, and incapable of thinking for ourselves and/or excercising our own 1st Ammendment rights or thinking independently in relation to military service. Then, when one of us actually thinks for themselves and asks questions, like "What the hell are we still doing in Afghanistan?," or "Why did we just help a bunch of rebels that hate us murder their head of state?" you mock us for that. Brilliant!!

The answer was "zero," Third eye. She was being honest in ignoring the question, which I applaud. War is o.k. as long as it's started by a Democrat.
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By the way, there wasn't ONE protest sign aimed directly at Obama at that march and rally on the 15th of October. Most were rubber stamp "Jobs not War" and other rather innocuous (to Obama) posters that didn't really point fingers except at Bush. I found it rather ironic that people are still protesting someone that has been out of office for three years rather than the person who lied about getting us out of one War (and has since participated in the murder of heads of state). Since 2008, U.S. Military operations persist in Panama, Bosnia, the Phillipines, Afghanistan, Columbia, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, and Libya (the wicked witch there is dead now). We still occupy Germany and Japan, of course, as well as South Korea. Did I miss anything?

Lord_of_the-Flies, so you carry out your obligation to our country because it's your job, they're paying you to ignore your true feelings. Just wonderful. I'm so happy and proud that someone with your long family history of deists and patriots protected us smelly, petulant, pseudo-intelligentia communists and mooks from ourselves. Without people like you, who knows where our country would be today.

Fear,
Ignore vatoloco, he/she is an alarmist of the highest order.

LOL!! Meh.

Fear

Do you recall Congressmen Giffords?

Regardless of political party, everyone deserves ample security.

Especially with the extremists ob both sides.

You sir, are not qualified to judge on security matters.

So the answer is ZERO poo?

Fear and (endless) rhetoric: The first amendment is about SPEECH, not about disrupting political and non political events to exercise that right. The 1st amendment right to assemble does not include the right to be disruptive and/or disrespectful.
As I said in my earlier post, the left lacks decorum. The left has no sense of time and place. The left has no sense of venue. Why is this? Because the left FEELS the right to their righteousness.

RoboLord said, "Well, I know you're a bit thin-skinned when it comes to people making assumtions about you, like your chat about being an ignostic (that's how you spelled it)."
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Yes, I spelled it ignostic because that is what I meant to say, ignostic with an "I". Check it out, you may learn something about ignosticism. And by the way, I said I was a pragmatic agnostic - agnostic with an "A". Don't worry, I'm sure it is really hard telling the difference between those A's and I's with your old prescription eyeglasses. Hope you get your new eyeglasses repaired soon and try not to sit on them again! As for your question to me, forget it. I don't owe you any answers.

also fear... does that mean that he was not listening to the other 52%

Fear...So what you are saying is that it does not count unless it is a loss by more that 12%? I am getting a bit lost in the long drawn out points you are trying to make.

Fear, thanks for your reasoned responses. But as we have seen in the past, the people grousing about your comments believe that first amendment rights apply to a very narrow sector of people - themselves. They are the angry, old white men (and the few women they still dominate) that are shaking with fear as they watch their once strong power monopoly melt away. Don't let it bother you - their reign of dominance and oppression over women, non-whites, non-Christians, indigenous peoples and homosexuals is crumbling at their feet. Only the tattered remnants of their last stand will remain as our children build the country our Constitution promised everyone.

From Poo: "I've been an activist against wars since the late 1960's. Your son is surely in more danger from any expectations that he may feel for continuing your family's long history of military service than he is from people like myself who have spent their entire adult lives protesting war."
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You forgot to say "Republican Wars." I highly doubt that I could find anything but support from you for any war a Democrat had anything to do with, including our current POTUS, who's track record so far include NOT getting us out of Afghanistan as promised, and recently participating in the removal and murder of foreign heads of state so that they can impose Sharia law upon their citizens. Don't even bring up his "getting us out of Iraq." That was a deal done years ago, and simply is going as planned. My point being in that he's no different than any other president, except perhaps to you, and I guess anyone who dies unecessarily during his reign is an acceptable death. I'd say that's a bit hypocritical, wouldn't you? I'm sorry, am I making an assumption? Well, I know you're a bit thin-skinned when it comes to people making assumtions about you, like your chat about being an ignostic (that's how you spelled it). But I've noticed that you don't treat others the same way, like me. So you DON'T treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. That's called hypocrisy, too.
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And BTW, I am proud of my service. I'm also an isolationist. I don't believe we should be doing what we do in the world. But I do what I have to do because that's my job right now and I made an obligation to my country. I am not, however, required to like it or agree with it. That probably ties in with what you think, that we shouldn't be messing about policing the world, but you don't like other things I say, so you attack me. If I was totally in line with you, goose-stepping in concert with you, and if I'd gotten hit in the head with a rubber bullet at a protest, I'd be your hero, like Scotty. Or are you hypocritical about that, too?
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Q: How many anti-war rallies have you attended since Obama was elected? Be honest. The last local one was October 15th in front of the University Book Store on State in Madison. All of 15-20 people who's concious outweighs their former love for Obama were there.

Good grief people! I am thankful to fear for pointing these things out, and you should be to. Of course, if you are completely right wing you are not going to agree. Have you forgotten this is a forum where people can express their opinions?

fear are you done hyping a dumb point yet? It is not up to the politician(s) how many security personnel are needed and when, but you already knew that...

FOR YOU maybe, but try to remember Russ was voted out by 4 points , Walker was voted in by 6 points. That leaves dog gone near HALF of the state that have HUGE problems with this guy and what he has done. Again, because YOU disagree with them does that mean that 52% of those who voted last time should be heard and the other 48% ignored because YOU disagree with them?
AGain freedom of speech is not reserved for the party in the majority. I also would say that Fiengold was voted out in an election that was MORE about Doyle than Russ. A HUGE republican base came out to vote AGAINST Doyle. Now we have one of the most disconnected , stupid senators not only in the country but possibly EVER! I mean did you watch the debates? My lord. BTE Ron Jon married into money, has done very little on his own in life. And othe than the occasional appearance on Fox have you seen him in Wisky? Russ used to have listening sessions in EVERY county in Wisky, EVERY SINGLE year in OFFICE. BTW have you seen the polls of a hypothetical race between him and Walker in a recall? Holy cow! Like a 12 point lead? Shows how much Wlaker is lved. He owned Barrett in the 2010 election in independant voters, which he has lost. Last I checked he trails by double digits in that category now in every single poll. That is why he and his party are sweating the recall so much.

Fear.....it still comes down to one thing and one thing only.Vote them out of office. Yes, people were angry with Fiengold and did what was right in their mind trying to yell him down the road, when they woke up (which did not take that long)and figured out it does not work, they voted him out of office. Being in the middle all I am seeing is nothing but drum drum drum yell yell yell recall recall recall. It is getting old fast.

What I see here is that the frst amendment only applies to those that dress and act a certain way. Funny I never read that in the bill of rights, can someone tell me where there is a personal hygene clause there? Anyone??
Sorry to say but the first amendment isnt available for people that use deodorant and wear nice clothes, and go to tea party rallies, and clap when Walker and Ryan speak. The others are just dirty, drum pounding hippies that should be arrested for........ not agreeing? Nice democracy, Lovely how some like to wrap themselves in the constitution when it works for them.

@fear-the same old fear and rhetoric spewed by you over and over and over and over-blah,blah,blah......

Funny how people dressed as zombies shouldn't be allowed to redress grievances , huh? It seems that the freedom of speech only applies when you fit a certain description. Why did Vos have those people arrested? Because they were bugging him? Or were they threatening to eat his brains??
Do you need 30 extra police officers? THIRTY!! WHat I continue to see from certain people is that they are annoyed with the methods of protest, yet you really fail to present ANY circumstance in which these poor republican lawmakers were realistically threatened at listening sessions. Loud boisterous disagreement is NOT threatening, sorry. Dressing up like a zombie is not threatening. Banging drums and smelling like body odor is not a threat that should show the need for THIRTY officers. If Representative Ryan feels he needs that type of protection, then I believe he should pay for a percentage of it, because this is a result of his own cowardess and paranoia. HUGE Overkill and an effort to sensationalize his own PR speak, because all honety thats all this was. I have posted videos where people that overtly disagree with Ryan PAID to get into an event stood up to disagree with him and were forceably removed by police, INCLUDING a 71 YEAR OLD retiree!! Yelling at your representative is NOT against the law, ask Russ Fiengold when he had a listening session in Waukesha county in the midst of the health care debate. he sat there and TRIED to have a discussion with 300+ enraged conservatives That screamed at him because.....they disagreed with him, yet no one arrested , and no one removed. Double standards are a fickle thing aren't they?
You may HATE Russ Fiengold, at least he stood by his positions, didn't hide from those that disagreed with him, and was willing to discuss with people that disagree with him. Directing people to his website, offering candy, and packer schedules is not a discussion of issues with your constituents.
I could have respect for these conservatives if they werent such chicken hawks and afraid to stand behind what they support. Talking about zombie costumes and dirty drum beaters doesnt qualify as relavant. All I see is cowards using law enforcement because they are afraid to face the music. If you are a public servant then you should stand up and address cinstituents that you disagree with as well as supporters, and you shouldn't need THIRTY cops to help you feel safe. There is no reason to use the special olympics ceremony as fodder for debate here, that is just a talking point that is meant to be used for devaluation of the protest. One has nothing to do with another. In Fact Governor Walker has cut more funding to people with mental disabilities than any other public servant in the HISTORY of our state if you want to have that discussion, but again that is not what we are talking about here is it?

These days -- I would not be bothered by extra security for either side. Maybe if Ms Gofford would have had the extra security there would be a little girl still alive.

Fearandconfusion: Quote "If Mr Ryan stands by his ideas, and portrays himself as a uniter not a divider, then why 30 officers?" end quote
From Wikipedia: "On June 8 in Madison, pro-union protesters dressed as zombies and caused some concerns during an event where the governor honored the accomplishments of members of the Special Olympics. The organizers of the ceremony said the demonstration had not disrupted their event. The protest occurred the same day Capitol Police removed a dozen protesters dressed as zombies from the office of Representative Robin Vos (R-Rochester) and arrested them."
And then there is this:
http://www.fox6now.com/news/politics/wit...
I think the 30 officers was warranted based on the documented behavior of the lefties, who seem to have no sense of decorum.

Fear - I do believe not too long ago a woman with the same type job as he was hot in the head while conducting the same type gathering. It doesn't matter what party you follow or belong too but If I were one of them I do believe I would also want a little extra protection during a town hall type meeting. There are a lot of nut case political followers of both parties that would stop at nothing to take someone out.

First,,,,,http://recallwalkercountdown.appspot.com/
then Ryan.

partarican1 I realize there are "in touch" people that didn't vote for Ryan.... but after all that has happened in his district during his tenure.... it is kind of amazing he keeps his seat....

It's halloween, and I have STALKERS!! How thrilling!

lets try it again? If Mr Ryan stands by his ideas, and portrays himself as a uniter not a divider, then why 30 officers?If you are o proud of what you propose then why is it that you need to hide behind extra (unecessary) police protection? Why are people that disagree with him either forcably removed from his presence or ignored?This guy is a coward of the same order as Scott Walker, just a little smarter, or at least more well versed in his rhetorical responses. "go to my website", or "Would you like some candy?" or "Hows about a Packer/Badger schedule?" Arent answers to tough questions, they are chicken excrement answers. And quite cowardly.

Well, youkillme, in the past Robot_Lord_Of_Tokyo has used his military service and his family's lengthy history of military service to tell another veteran to be quiet. So I had thought he was proud of his service and his family's long history of military service. But his latest comments tonight certainly confuse things.
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His prior comments were made around 7pm on the evening of October 8, 2011 in this article:
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http://gazettextra.com/news/2011/oct/04/...
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"I have so many relatives dating back to before the revolutionary war that have protected our country, including my immediate family and myself, you can't even bring that up."
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"My family has been here since before the Revolutionary War, that's all. My blood has chewed a little more dirt than his, I think, but I don't see you defending that, do I?"

That is an interesting statement there poobah. Is RLOT proud of his military service? Or is he ashamed? How will he teach his children about the country that sends their children off to fight wars on foreign soil? Will he god-xxxx America or will he want his kids to carry on the past traditions of courage, responsiblity and honesty that he seems so proud of?

Robot_Lord_Of_Tokyo, you've made frequent mention of your military service and your family's long history of military service. I've been an activist against wars since the late 1960's. Your son is surely in more danger from any expectations that he may feel for continuing your family's long history of military service than he is from people like myself who have spent their entire adult lives protesting war. Teach your children well, their father's hell did slowly go by.

I'm interested in your response, poo, but I have to admit that I have to work tomorrow, and I'm tired. I, at least, want to put in a good day's work starting in the morning. You'll be better off for it, and you can blather some more because of it. And to be honest, right now, I enjoy my eight year old son playing some dance game on the wii right now, I'm going to watch him have some fun, and try not to think about how you want to destroy his future and make him go to war like I did because of unadulterated ignorance and selfishness. So I'm signing off for the night.

Most of them. If it wasn't so, they wouldn't send their men to die for nothing on foreign shores. Selfishness. Nothing less.

Robot_Lord_Of_Tokyo said, "Now, Americans think that the country owes them something. They lack responsibility for their own lives. They want a parent for the rest of their lives to take care of them."
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How many of the 312 million Americans meet all of the criteria you listed above?

"Ryan's proposals will end Social Security and Medicare as we know them.
"
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You know, sane people think that might not be a bad idea. You know, getting back to what we were. We were an independent society. People wanted to come here to be better. They could live here, and eke out a living or make millions. It was up to them, and they understood that. It was all up to them.
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Now, Americans think that the country owes them something. They lack responsibility for their own lives. They want a parent for the rest of their lives to take care of them. No craftsman anymore. No one who takes account for their lives. A few do, but they are of no account in the minds of the rest of you. Responsibility. Honesty. Courage. Words, or will you people finally stop being sheeple? Elect your own. Quit being convenient.

Oh, I'm sorry vatoloco. Only your alarms count.

916w

You kill me is an alarmist of the highest order.

916WI, I did not imply to do nothing.

youkillme......If you want to discuss ending Medicare and Social Security, simply doing nothing and letting them continue on their courses would be the easiest way to do it. The trust funds that the programs depend on are scheduled to run dry in 2017 and 2037 respectively.

If only Paul Ryan would not have spent the last twelve years in Congress sponsoring and voting for tax exemptions, credits, loopholes, subsidies and tax shelters, he would not be here today under heavy police guard blaming government for leveraging winners over the losers with tax exemptions, credits, loopholes, subsidies and tax shelters.
/
whzbang, you need a brain - not a link - to understand that Ryan's proposals will end Social Security and Medicare as we know them.

Paul Ryan voted to end Social Security and Medicare.

And by the way, poohbear, where was I telling someone they are stupid? If someone took offense, that's their problem, and there is probably a good reason for it.

poobah, thank you for correcting my spelling. I'm a little bit at a disadvantage right now, as I sat on my glasses last night and I'm using an old prescription, which are bifocals. I'll be more careful. In any case, I've always noticed that only mooks make a point of noticing fat fingres. Get it??

Billy Jean is not my lover. She's just a girl..

I feel sorry for the 30 police. They and the fireman too will probably feel the pain of Walker's cuts soon enough.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo: What middle class?? You mean the dwindling middle class??? Question: How did you come up with your blog name? Kind of an interesting name.

SarahB1
Why do you insist on calling people liars all the time?

I was there, no reason to hide that fact.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo, using incorrectly spelled words while trying to belittle another person's intelligence only belies your own intelligence.
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contituents = constituents
psuedo = pseudo
intelligentisia = intelligentsia

"He clearly doesn't LISTEN to his constituents."
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If you mean by "contituents" a bunch of smelly, petulant, psuedo-intelligentisia narcissists, then yes, he doesn't listen to you. He listens to the common people, the REAL people, the middle class that elected him to office because we don't want your communist utopia. He doesn't listen to freaks.

Thanks for helping trust-fund babies and not the middle class!

Let me get this straight... I'm supposed to take time out of my Friday, to spend an hour listening to Mr. Ryan try to indoctrinate me, then, if I dare (with 30 police waiting in the wings to arrest me if I'm deemed out of line), I can ask a question, which he will twist into one of his talking point answers. Waste of time! He clearly doesn't LISTEN to his constituents. I send him email, I get a canned response, same as the canned responses he gave to the people who attended this "listening" session.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo
Oct 30, 2011 at 2:12 p.m...... just kiss Walker or Ryan.... the smell of theft will never wash off.

Kay5, taxed and regulated out of this country? HORSE PUCKEY! Your statement is a myth (corollary to the tinkle down fairy tale). If there is a demand for a good or service, a smarter, less lazy business person will step in, do it, and make a profit within the confines of the regulatory environment.

Tell me again why we should feel sorry for them!

For the 1 percent of the population with the highest income, average real after-tax household income grew by 275 percent between 1979 and 2007.
For others in the 20 percent of the population with the highest income (those in the 81st through 99th percentiles), average real after-tax household income grew by 65 percent over that period, much faster than it did for the remaining 80 percent of the population,
but not nearly as fast as for the top 1 percent.
For the 60 percent of the population in the middle of the income scale (the 21st through 80th percentiles), For the 20 percent of the population with the lowest income, average real after-tax household income was
about 18 percent higher in 2007 than it had been in 1979.

As a result of that uneven income growth, the distribution of after-tax household income in the United States was substantially more unequal in 2007 than in 1979:
The share of income accruing to higher-income households increased, whereas the share accruing to other households declined. In fact, between 2005 and 2007, the after-tax income received by the 20 percent of the
population with the highest income exceeded the aftertax income of the remaining 80 percent.

Kay5 said, "Sounds as tho all you envious people would rather have businesses taxed and regulated right out of the country. How's that going to help the workers here any?"
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Mike Kimel did some interesting work with corporate tax rate and unemployment data that covered the period from 1948 to 2009 and you can view that at http://www.presimetrics.com/blog/?p=162 From the cited study, "If you look at the entire data set, the correlation between tax rates and unemployment appears to negative. That is to say, lower unemployment rates tend to be associated with higher corporate tax rates, not lower ones." Kind of blows a big hole in trickle-down theory, doesn't it? And it helps explain why the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer over the last 30 years since Reagan-era tax cuts. For the first time in modern history, we are no longer an upwardly mobile society as Ryan likes lying about. American children now face the prospect of making less in wages and benefits than their parents (adjusted for inflation). And the rich get richer.

And here we go again! Let's feel sorry for the rich! How many times do we have to say it???? Trickle-down effect does not and has not worked in the past. The rich are getting richer and the middle class are becoming poor. No more middle class if we keep coddling the rich and big corporations. Ryan quit spewing your lies.

Costume party tonight!! I was going to go as a democrat, but even after rolling around in garbage all day, I still don't stink enough, havn't molested enough gerbils, and I can't get my head up my butt........

garyp when did Ryan say he wanted to end social security and medicare? Link please. I thought he wanted to save it. Not fixing SS and Medicare will be the death it.

At least on these blogs, emac has some common sense. No one has to "agree" with everything I write. It just happens to make more sense than most of what I see on here. Fear and rherotic based upon fear and lack of responsibility. Everything seems to be everyone else's fault. Baaaaaaaaaah.

As Ryan would say to all you suffering with foreclosures and old people on fixed incomes..... " I hope you take your blood pressure medication".
This Koch robot is put out with his script to convince people to give away all they have.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo- Although I don't agree with everything you pos,t I do agree we need to stop "policing" the world. I suggest we bring home all of our troops (yes, all of them) and shut down the bases. If a country wants to pay us too stay we can have that conversation. I also think the financial aid to other countries needs to stop, not forever, but until we are solvent again. Americans are fooling themselves if they think we are well respected in the countries we help. Fix whats wrong here and then worry about the rest of the world.

You are right. They can make a living carving cribbage boards for a living, and making paper out of grass. I hope cribbage remains as popular as it is now, or they are screwed.

Sounds as tho all you envious people would rather have businesses taxed and regulated right out of the country. How's that going to help the workers here any?

"OK with uncertainty in the lives of the poor and middle class that struggle to invest in education, their homes, their children, and their future."
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Earn your home or build it yourself. Invest in your children's education by teaching them yourself. If you think you can just let them go to school and forget them until they come home, you are wrong. Invest in their future by creating a world they can live in. If you don't know what I'm taking about, you could be responsible for killing your own children, you know?? Setting them up for failure because of your lack of understanding of the world is no excuse.

"Don’t tax them so much, and don’t regulate business so much, because that causes uncertainty ...Rep. Paul Ryan said"
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Ryan doesn't want uncertainty for the rich, but seems OK with uncertainty in the lives of the poor and middle class that struggle to invest in education, their homes, their children, and their future.
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Ryan's logic relies on a religious faith in the "invisible hand" restoring American prosperity. I'd rather invest in people I can trust--like the middle class. Please tax those with excessive wealth and invest in the middle class and our children. They will free them up to create the wealth needed in our society.

Ryan just doesn't understand what it means to be average. His approach is good for rich people and corporations, but not for the common man or family.

4bears-I'm from Janesville and I did not vote for Ryan...he is out of touch with the reality of real life in his district...when was the last time he spoke out about homelessness, poverty, or crime? What about all the foreclosed properties and people drawing unemployment compensation?
I really wish I could have been at this last session and will make all attempts to attend in the future..

I am amazed that given the facts as they developed since the Reagan administration, that Ryan still believes that cutting taxes for the rich is the best thing we can do to spur the economy forward. If keeping money in the hands of the wealthy were the solution, this economy, given that the rich are richer today than they have been since just before the great depresion, would be in great shape. As for further deregulating business, I have to question Ryan's grasp of recent history. The banking industry has been deregulate to the point where they can drive this economy of this nation to the brink of depression, and litle has been done to rectify the situation.

talk about out of touch... well Janesville, you help keep this nutjob in office, and hasn't he served you well??? who do you blame?

Just make taxes fair and end all the huge subsidies especially to those making huge profits like the oil companies and farmers and all the others we as citizens don't even hear about.

fear-I hope you got some sleep after your rantings, you sounded really stressed out. I think maybe you might be one of the people the 30 police are watching for to go nuts. Are you off your meds?

I think Ryan forgets that he IS a public sector worker. However, he is one with benefits that other public workers do not get. How lucky for him. I do hope that soon he will be an unemployed worker trying to get a private sector job (his first as an adult) and experience the joys of trickle down economics and out of pocket health care costs for himself and his family.

Some readers believe that Pick Pocket Paul will be gone after the election. I go to church but I don't have that much faith. I believe he may still be in office(not necessarily here in the First District). Maybe I need to switch to his religion. I suspect, perhaps, that his faith has made him what he is today.

yada

Glad you announced your arrival!

Its WACKO time.

factsplease

Next time, go for yourself. He spoke for an hour, then took questions. The article stated that, I didn't think I needed to RESTATE it.

fearandrhetoric4dummies

Was that the woman from Madison...the one from Baldwins area?

Another bonehead soon to be gone.Title, "Ryan hears from voters" is a complete farce I agree youkillme...nemesis wow not a clue still.truth1 you are alike to the GOP you agree 100% I don't believe that as your statement says different as walker the one you agree 100% with also agrees and supports the GOP with your last part,, WHY aren't they reducing pay and "benefits" for themselves???
And this cutting taxes on the rich, thinking its going to "create jobs" is just whacked.

When confronted with tough questions his answr seems to be " go to my website". This lady in Walworth was pissed and wanted answers and she got "go to my website"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...

Want a job? Wanto to discuss? NO how about a packer/badger schedule? Would you like some candy? THis guy likes to hear himself talk, cannot stand being challenged, and is an un equalled coward, except by Walker maybe. To Ryans credit , at least he is out in the ppublic. Scotty in Janesville? Sneaking in and out the back door. Ron Johnson? Getting 10 million dollars in "deffered salary" from his company to build a mansion, while he continues to hire prison labor at pennies on the dollar?

And so many of you parrots keep on with the jibberish that these are somehow the representatives of the silent majority? Keeps getting better, huh.

What I wonder is if he and the rest of his republitard friends are so proud and happy of their ideas why are they wating taxpayer dollars and funding all of this extra , unecessary protection? It seems to me that they are afraid of dissention and confrontation. As a 71 year old retiree found out at a function in New Berlin. How important is the 1st amendmaent to these cowards?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLqg1wfQJ... whatever
you do dont speak up or you will be arrested.

Paul Ryan is a PR machine. He laughs at people that ask him about his policies, he keeps repeating the same old points? How much money does anyone think he has seen in lobbying?
God Bless America and the cowards that WASTE tax dollars to protect themselves from the BS that they support based on Lobbying interests and donors, not constituents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBhdXfCda...

RLOT again a bunch of empty blather from you and labels, labels, labels that mean nothing, I sear its like you work for Fox Noise or something.
What you need to understand is that following voting records and bif political donors IS the smart , intelligent thing to do. Maybe a great way to find out who is buying that politician?
Still trying to figure out how exactly posting a link and saying follow the money is deplorable? Or have anything to do with facism or Spain, but I guess thats what happens when you forget to take your pills, the turets comes and goes huh? Just stat belting out a bunch of unrelated nothingness. Whatever scrambles your eggs I guess. Cheesh, is that all you have?

Did he enjoy his $300.00 wine afterwards? Or, maybe he had a steak and Sushi date with Duffy?

Pointing out the inequalities of our current economic plight is not "class warfare" Mr. Ryan, and you know it. Highlighting the fact that the 1%'s income/profits increased exponentially while the rest of the world flounders is not "class warfare", Mr. Ryan, it is pointing out the obvious. Looking at the bankers that received TARP bailout funds, robosigned mortgages, created a vast and confusing network of financial dealings that made determining actual ownerships of said mortgages nearly impossible, and now throwing foreclosure Halloween parties poking fun at homeowners is not "class warfare", Mr. Ryan. What IS class warfare is the demonizing of demonstrators and average Americans, portraying them as uneducated masses by the few that pull the purse strings of America. Changing terminology from "rich people" to "job creators" does not change the facts, and is not reflective of reality. People want answers, people want justice, and people want to believe the the American dream wasn't a huge joke. What is "obvious" is that there are career politicians, such as yourself, that have more interest in propping up GOP ideology rather than having a voting record that actually reflects your constituents desires. We have a defense industry that, threatened with cuts, have point blank said that any reduction in military spending will torpedo the economy, so we need to keep the government war machine fueled up and ready to prime our gasping economy, after all Jesus loves the bombs, bullets and burning children, right?

wislady-"Quite enjoyable to listen to someone who can speak for an hour without a teleprompter or notes"
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And I thought a listening session was supposed to be him listening to his constituents...silly me.

Nemesis, Darwin is an American in sheepish clothing. He's communistic in nature. He thinks we should be like Europe. I guess he must have visited there once. Probably Amsterdam or Stockolm.....

Seriously? 30 Officers? for 15 protesters - all of who were at least 50 years or older, and a visually impaired guy?

Oneday, that is such an ignorant statement it's deplorable. I'm assuming you're a democrat. All democrat support comes from Labor unions. How partisan is that??? Just like Facist Spain.

Paul Ryan is a Hoover Republican.

This very much unnerves me. I admit I have voted for him in the past. I won't vote for him in the future. I won't vote for someone who feels fear from constituents. I have never heard of 30 officers protecting a local politician. It seems he is not listening. I feel this was a public relations talk, not a listening session. It was a lecture by a man who believes he holds great power. We are behind his power with our vote and this needs to stop. A bus to hold dissenters? This reminds me of communism.

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category...

Look at Paul Ryan's contributors are and how he votes on issues. It's very obvious who he represents....and it's not us.

It was informative and civil, a lesson for the Madison crowd. Too bad the 12 people outside didn't come in to listen.

Quite enjoyable to listen to someone who can speak for an hour without a teleprompter or notes....and no stuttering or babbling.

DwightKSchrute- I was dumb enough to vote for Paul Ryan last time, but I will not make the same mistake again. I think you will find many of Ryan's former supporters look to someone else next time. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, I think not.

Mr.Darwin your understanding of economics is equally juvenile. I bet you call the situation in Greece is a good thing. And the rest of the european countries are a close second thanks to liberal socialist government decisions and policies - this includes government run healthcare.
Hopefully you turned off wheel of fortune before you read this.

Gee, why do think all the police were there?
Was it-
A) To protect the voters from Ryan attacking them?
B) To protect the voters from attacking each other?
C) To protect Ryan from some crazy left winger attacking him?
I love the comment you couldn't get within 10 yards of him-Why would you want to or need to?
Wake up to the new facts of life that there is now an element that is borderline crazy and can't be trusted to act civil and non-violent. And it includes the Left and Right. (By the way the answer is C)

Sorry Mr. Kenneth Pearson, but when Paul Ryan signed a pledge of devotion to an individual who does not live in the 1st Congressional District of Wisconsin, Grover Norquist, he essentially nullified your voice and all voices from the district who strongly believe Congress should raise revenue to pay the bills. Our wishes don’t count.

nemesis, in fact, every dollar government spends is an addition to the economy. The formula for aggregate demand is "AD = C + I + G", where C is consumer spending, I is investment, and G is government spending. If a company sells something, it does not matter whether it is a government that buys it: they sold it, they then have the money to use to pay workers. This is Economics 101, but when you learn your economics from Fox, I suppose they skip that part. I wouldn't rely on them; you look pretty ignorant when you do.

There was certainly more then 30 officers present,all you had to do was count them. Especially when you consider there were non-uniformed officers around. Nothing like a good show of force to scare peaceful protedsfsters.

Let's not forget that Paul Ryan wants to end Medicare and Social Security.

Mr Nemesis, your juvenile understanding and logic are sad. First off, every modern economy except ours has some form of nationalized health care, including the northern European countries all of which I might add have trade surpluses. You do understand surplus. So, how does it work there but not here? Are you now an American't instead of an American.

“I don’t think it’s healthy for us to be stoking the flames of envy and resentment. I don’t care about rich people.."

Other side of his mouth--"It’s not right that public-sector workers should get better benefits than the people who pay the taxes to support those benefits, Ryan said."

Thirty police officers, right pretty boy?
This fellow is a hypocrite, a rich man's tool, a POOR representative of the people. He plays the politics of division while bemoaning the same.

He was in his job when the country and the economy went down the drain. He voted for hundreds of billions of dollars in bailouts that were used to give poor performing executives and ceos bonuses that were 30 and 40 million dollars and more to the individuals. His time has come and gone, he needs to be removed from office.

It is amazing to me how short sighted some people are. Government can not make jobs - they can only make it possible to make jobs happen by reducing the regulatory atmosphere. Obama wants to enact Obamacare which would force so many terrible regulations and taxes on companies and people it would stifle the economy into a depression. Already some provisions of it are being enacted and the negative results are being measured. If Obamacare was so good why are many companies and states opting for a waiver.
The EPA wants to and is dangerously close to classifying many common naturally occurring gasses into a taxable commodity - carbon dioxide for one. That alone will make many companies who are able to employ people now change their minds. So the sign above that reads JOBS-JOBS-JOBS will remain a fantasy. And if that guy holding that sign JOBS-JOBS-JOBS wants more government intervention - just wait - they are ready to give him what he wants.

Ryan wins with ~63% of the vote again...book it.

Here’s one reliable test of a good public official: You don’t have to call out a battalion of 30 police officers when you schedule a townhall appearance.

"Trickle Down" doesn't work Paulie. It has never worked! (Remember Reagan?) Guess you must have missed that day in US History at Craig.

I agree with what Walker did 100% and will be voting for him again but, yes, WHY aren't they reducing pay and "benefits" for themselves???
And this cutting taxes on the rich, thinking its going to "create jobs" is just whacked.