Spend a day in the classroom and then make your idiotic statements. My guess is that you havent been in school since you dropped out. The painting witha broad brush here is just ridiculous, Vato. I get tired of the same old factless fruitless demaguogery by you. When you are ready to stop making false baseless claims based on nothing more than your own skewed vision of public education and teachers, you really should leave it alone, because quite honestly you could not be more mistaken.

You're painting with a pretty broad brush there, vato. While I agree with you (holy crap I can't believe I'm saying that) that our schools have failed to teach children to actually think; there are many good teachers that do teach students to anlyze, compare, contrast, etc. To paint teachers as lazy sloths doesn't give credit to those who excel at what they do; especially given the challenges schools face today.

Doh! Shouldn't have provided you all an excuse to not talk about education (which was really the point of my post).

You guys never fail me though. You post a bunch of statistics in the hope that we will assume they are indicators of good healthcare without you actually having to state it.

It turns out, according to your statistics, that Cuba has an exponentially better healthcare system than we do. Do you guys actually believe the stuff you post?

Oh, by the way, other developed countries have school systems that provide an education for all of their children too. Of course, you knew that, but hoped that others wouldn't.

Try again.

vat,
You can spend all the money you want in education but when we trail the world in math and science by 23rd or 24th, there is a problem.
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I hating to quote Mr. Cain but, "apples and oranges."
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When comparing what the United States spends versus the rest of the world you run into some serious differences. For example,
.
how many of those in the top 20 educate EVERYONE?
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How many spend $$$ on students with severe disabilities?
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How many have the goal of providing an equal education for everyone?
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How many test everyone?
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Now, perhaps you would prefer the US re-open institutions like St. Coletta so the public schools don't have to spend money on severely disabled children. Pehaps you would be more quick to remove resources for programs designed to help failing students. Perhaps you would remove students more quickly that appear uninterested in learning.
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Perhaps that would improve test scores...for some.
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The uniqueness of the public education system in this country is the promise to offer EVERY child the opportunity at an EQUAL k-12 education. That promise makes it more difficult to have average test scores be the highest in the world. It does not mean that our system is a failure or a waste of money.
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I challenge anyone to research what other countries do with students with disabilities (behavior or learning), students who are failing or students from poor families. Do these "top 20" countries educate everyone? Do they give every child the opporunity of an education?
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This comparison is truly apples to oranges because it is OBVIOUS that year in, year out the United States continues to produce and attract the BEST AND BRIGHTEST IN THE WORLD.

"""Along with the above provision, the state will allow an extra $50 per student and a match of $500,000 totaling $1,000,000 if and only if the district uses its taxing authority to raise taxes to the maximum allowable under the law by fiscal year 2012-2013. (The State clearly wants school districts to raise taxes first)"""
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This is what our COWARDLY gov. Walker wanted. Force VOLUNTEER local school board members to raise taxes leaving him as the Fiscally Conservative "good-guy".

again don't let stats get in the way, these are just a few categories. Lets keep it education. Still stand by your "unquestionably best system"?

United States

6719 per capita spending

26 doctors per 10,000 people

94 nurses and midwives per 10,000 people

31 hospital beds per 10,000 people

78 life expectancy at birth

United Kingdom

2815 dollars

23 doctors

128 nurses

39 beds

80 life

Russian Federation

698 dollars

43 doctors

85 nurses

97 beds

66 life

Japan

2581 dollars

21 doctors

95 nurses

140 beds

83 life

Italy

2631 dollars

37 doctors

72 nurses

39 beds

82 life

Germany

3465 dollars

34 doctors

80 nurses

83 beds

80 life

France

3420 dollars

34 doctors

80 nurses

73 beds

81 life

Cuba

674 dollars

59 doctors

74 nurses

49 beds

78 life

China

216 dollars

14 doctors

10 nurses

22 beds

74 life

Canada

3673 dollars

19 doctors

101 nurses

34 beds

81 life

""Because although US healthcare is the most expensive in the developed world, it is also unquestionably the best.""
The best? Statistics dont point that out but eh what do statistics mean? Unless you are talking about education right? The above comment is your ridiculous opinion not based in any sort of facts. The health of this country comared to other nations with socialized medicine could be pointed to, but why use statistics? Unquestionably the best? You are unquestionably incapable of honesty I do know that much. I know I said i wouldn't feed the troll, but you post ridiculous statements like that and you have to be called out. Not even the most staunch opponents of Obummer care(Me) will say we have "unquestionably the best system." LOL can't stop laughing. You have your slanted opinion, I have statistical facts. The ones you love so much when posting about education:

http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/2009/e...
37th in the world, best?? Must be another liberal organization right?
Dont let statistics get in the way.

NoBrain- What a genius, another post full of political nothingness, failing to make any legitamite points.
I can sum up every post you make:"Lefties are the devil!!, Righties are angels from heaven that have the solutions to make you all happy.If they only had power again like they did between 2000 and 2006 (both houses of congress and Bush) they could lead us right down the tubes again."
You are a joke and anyone who feeds you should stop because you have nothing to contribute, So now I will stop feeding the troll.

It is interesting that the resident lefties here are always talking about the amount of money that the US spends in relation to other countries for healthcare, but not education.

Why? Because although US healthcare is the most expensive in the developed world, it is also unquestionably the best.

Similarly, US education is the most expensive in the developed world. It is unquestionably not the best, however. I believe we rank right above Albania.

If spending on education had any relation to outcomes, you would hear our lefty friends provide some facts to that effect. Of course, there are none (if anything, you can make the case that the more you spend the worse the results), so they rely on implication, a classic lefty tactic.

It is humorous to listen to the leftist site trolls put out the excuses for this poor performance: parents don't care, "urban" (i.e. black) populations (they're not racists though), as if other countries don't face these same problems. I especially like the "foreign wars" straw man. I'm surprised we didn't hear about the Koch brothers. These people are laughable.

Realist,
I dont live in Janesville, so I dont know about your taxes. I have served on a school board so I know fiscal mismanagement when I see it and Janesville is a perfect example.

OK - it's Tuesday - please update us, Frank.

hey Vato- FYI heres a link of what the US actually spends on education in a year. Its 3% of our yearly budget! THREE!!! Trillions???? Try .1 trillion. thats 100 billion, and thats not all in salaries and benefits. but hey thats just federal dollars, I am sure that TRILLIONS are spent by each state right??
Talk about sensationalistic lies to try to make a point, what a freaking joke! Link:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/

Whenever youre ready to talk serious, I am ready. Try not to be such a blind idelogical hater. You actually have some good points to make, just try to make them intelligently, cheesh.

I certainly think that trillions spent on teacher salary and benefits are well worth the investment, much more so than the TRILLIONS wasted on foriegn wars.
Again VAto the demographics problem that you keep missing is the reason the statistics you quote are skewed, until you recognize that it is hard to have a meaningful discussion about public education. Your problem with the balance sheet are the intangible variables, that dont show up in the numbers.
I would also like to see where you get that we are spending "trillions" on teacher salary and benefits. We live in a country of 300 million people witha yearly GDP of 16 trillion dollars, when you say "trillions" at very least the plural of the word means 2 trillion. Are you trying to tell me that this nation spends 1/8 of its yearly GDP on teacher salaries and benefits? I would argue that is sensationalism on your part and HUGELY overblown. If you want to make serious points about salaries and benefits at least understand basic numbers and how much a million, billion, trillion is, Okay? Cheesh!!

here is another quick point for all of you ridiculous individuals calling teachers "greedy". Since when is a paid professional with 10+ years of experience and a masters degree earning a TOTAL compensation package of 70,000 a year being greedy? Are you kidding me? Yet the same people are making arguments that investment bankers THAT PRODUCE NOTHING, DO NOTHING TO ADVANCE society, make millions of dollars a month and the teachers are greedy? Do any of you realize how stupid that kind of garble makes you look? The most trusted, valuable people in our society are ridiculed by a certain group of sleepwalking programmable zombies because they just want a decent living, benefit, and retirement package? Now that is asking too much and being greedy? Some of you people should really think a little bit before posting such hooey.
Yes Vato the cost keeps going up, why? Maybe it has something to do with inflation? You act as if education is the onlty cost that has inflated. Have you pumped gas into your vehicle? Gone to the grocery store? Teachers in Janesville have gotten raises that are less than the rate of inflation!! They also do pay a small portion of their health care. My question is when will you people stop asking them to take less to do more? When will we all start to realize that educating our population is more valuable than fighting meaningless wars? we live in a nation that spends NINE times as much on defense as education!!

shrek,
No need to insult your intelligence as you did so you self by talking out of both sides of your mouth.
" Taxes would still have to increase but not as much as they are going to now. Previous fiscal mismanagement combined with the state cuts have created a difficult situation for JSD."
Please enlighten me, how much has the school portion of your tax bill gone up in the past 10 years? Thats what I thought. The "financial mismanagment" was the fact that they had the opportunity to raise more revenue and chose not to which is a huge part of the reason they are where they are now. Not because of the teacher pay or benefits. But yet you want these few people to pay to balance a budget that isn't balanced because you haven't had an increase in taxes for the last 10 years.
So to conclude I guess my question for you is, did the district cut huge amounts of money from their spending and then ask to raise taxes or not? Because that is exactly what you suggest they do. Nice try blaming this on the teachers again.

>frogger

That is part of their salary. Did you know that teachers chose that way instead of getting paid $3000-5000 more. If you people say"pay your share", then we need to raise their salary then they're going to start paying their "fair share". It's that simple. You can't just ignore the fact that their salary should be with their health insurance/pension fee. With this pension fee, their salary will be $47,000~49,000 average. I don't think that amount is not even close to "too much getting paid" considering what this job requires.

And I would like to ask--what is the perceived downfall of the education system?

Wisconsin public schools are number 1 in graduation rate--have been 1 or 2 for the past five years.

Wisconsin public schools have been 1,2, or 3rd in ACT college entrance exams.

Wisconsin public schools continue to be "best in the Midwest" for SAT college entrance exams.

Wisconsin public schools continue to lead the nation in participation in and passing scores for Advanced Placement programs.

That being said, we still have achievement gaps between majority and minority groups of students, and those won't go away without a serious examination of the larger issues facing society.

Public education is the foundation of our democracy, and without our continued support and investment in the system, the USA will continue a downward path to become a "used to be super-power"

@fearandrhetoric...you rock.

Solutions cost money, it called reality. These things aren't fixed with butterflies and baloons and wishes of goodwill. Harsh realities, but truth. Understand that ysome may not agree with it, but taking ,money away WILL make things worse, not better. Called common sense, you get what you pay for.

we start PUBLIC education at 5 and some communities 4. Before thatit is the parent's job to give them a foundation for the future. STarting PUBLIC education earlier would only raise costs ezoner, those are things that the Republicants are animately against. Just look back at some of the 4k blogs on this very site.
The only solutions from the right wing is privatization that leaves out large portions of the population. But that is what you all want is to starve public ed of funding. To move up the ladder in this statistical battle that leaves out infinite variables and demographics that are crucial to the total equation.

you know vato you still fail to recognize what exactly causes our educationsystem to be ranked where it is. Your biggest failure just like everyone elses that looks at it like you is that you fail to see whwere the LARGE majority of the expense and problems with outr rankings lie. Demographics in LARGE poor urban areas. Looking at PUBLIC education as some kind of balance sheet like you are an accountant , is asenine. If you continue to do that you disqualify yourself from having a real discussion about the VALUE of a system that offers EVERYONE an education and a fair shot at the American dream.
For those taking shots at our local Teachers Union, and saying that because they didnt tear up A CONTRACT because the gov and some cronies decided to change the numbers, are OFFENSIVE, and extremely stupid. To say its not about educating the kids of janesville, aren't looking at the "balance sheet" here in Janesville. Test scores are UP, in many cases those "greedy teachers" are more concerned about educating kids than their own parents are. So honestly make your arguments about how you would like to cut teachers salaries and benefits as some grand plan to help education, but calling teachers greedy as some kind of jumping off point is as stupid and insulting as it gets.
MayI ask you is the garbage man and tash disposal a business? Where's the ROI? What about Utilities? Water? Is there a return o n investment on every single tax that you people shell out? Why is it so hard to understand that some things are for the greater good? Educating all of the future generations children is better for us all, undercompensating their teachers will only HURT long run viability of the system as a whole, how is it that so many cannot or refuse to see this?
Point to your rankings all you like, but please offer ONE solution that concludes a REDUCTION in funding will actually help us rise in those holy rankings that you so often love to use as fodder for discussion. The facts are you have none. Other than denying education to the least fortunate, because they are a drag on the system anyways right? Might as well just stop educating anyone in the greater Milwaukee area. nice reasoning...... gringo,vato!!

Vats arguement is an important one regarding other nations and their math/science and even language abilities. The reality is that we start education late, we try to fix things with money (spent in the wrong areas), we have changed froma culture where women at home raising the children is not seen as a job (or vice versa). Some nations recognize that you cannot limit the grow of a few at the expense of the few at the lower end of ability (not wealth, but ability). There are serious issues with our education system, and like SS , Medicare etc.... we are not tackling the real issues and providing the significant solutions/changes required because the status quo or small fixes will not rock the boat (or the vote). It is going to take a major disruption, (larger than we have seen) to our financial system to correct the problem. We require a complete reset.

Realist,
There is no reason to try to insult me unless your argument it weak, which I expect it is.
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The JSD has cut quite a bit, it shows how bloated he district's budget was. They are now getting down to the hard cuts. These cuts would not be as difficult if the teachers' union would agree to pay a portion of their benefit costs. Taxes would still have to increase but not as much as they are going to now. Previous fiscal mismanagement combined with the state cuts have created a difficult situation for JSD.
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Many other districts in the state have been planning for these types of cuts for a few years. JSD knew they were coming eventually and failed to plan accordingly. The other districts have been able to absorb the reduced spending with a combination of small cuts and the employees paying a portion of their benefit costs. Those districts are doing pretty well, education levels are the same and the burden to taxpayers has been minimized.

Craig HS has a 35 foot ceiling and a full wall of windows in their cafeteria. Who designed and approved that money and energy saving feature? not! Another example of tax money wasted on what? Education?

I have seent he upgrades to the Craig high school. Holy Crap. Does it need to be this fancy to LEARN??!!?

I struggle with the prevailing logic of "everybody chip in and pay...it;s only $50.00/year more". What about if I overspend my budget? Can I count on you liberal's to throw in $50.00 each so I am bailed out of my mess? I don't think that will happen and I don't think it should. I also don't believe raising taxes is the answer. Fearandrhetoric...plays as if he/she knows what everyone elses motives are...but in reality knows nothing about any of us or our motives. We want to stop throwing away money at education. I am all for a quality education for those that earn it and work for it, but not at greedy, spoiled teachers and administrators. Let's face it, we are wasting education dollars on some that will never utilize it and will never, ever appreciate it.

I CHOOSE where to INVEST my money. TAXES are not an investment, they are a forced payment. Also, I don't invest in businesses that can't balance their budgets but am forced to pay taxes to support them.

@fearandrhetoric...

thank you. I think I'd enjoy having drinks with you.

Folks, to be pro-business, you HAVE TO BE PRO-EDUCATION. You invest in education, you invest in the economic well-being of the community, the state, the nation.

First off teachers cant have a 401k because they work for a non profit. Many of them do contribute to a 403b which is a similar venture.
Second, their COMPENSATION is their salary and BENEFITS. Please stop acting like they don't contribute, they do. Part of their compensation package is money to a pension. EVeryone knows it, now because the private sector has screwed up so badly that the free markets have destroyed millions of 401ks nationwide, the first place you want to take from is the teachers that are in a profession that affords them a pension that they PAY INTO , and you want more? Why is it only tangible to you people unless it is an EXTRA deduction from their paycheck? Understand that the money and compensation is negotiated and is THEIRS, not yours. EVERYONE pays taxes, that doesn't make you somehow their employer. It makes you a taxpayer, nothing more nothing less.

that 3000-5000 is their own money they should be contributing to their OWN 401k- nobody is trying to take anything form you. It is about time you pay for you OWN 401 k like everybody else has to. It is also about time they help pay for their medical insurnace like everybody else. Oops sorry not like everybody else because some people don't get to even contribute to these kinds of bennies because there are NONE for them.

Nobody want to pay more tax including me, but I'd say "tax to the max". Too much cut was done already. And I don't think each teacher should pay $3000-5000 more (when their average salary is $44,000) to save the system when we all can help by paying about $50 each.

There is clearly an incentive to tax to the max. This allows Walker to say he balanced the state budget (while INCREASING spending) by witholding state aid from communities that fund the aid, then bait those communities to raise their own taxes. The $1 million "bonus" should be a red flag to anyone with a brain.

Shrek,aka genius,
"The state does not want the school districts to raise taxes first, the state wants districts to cut spending first and then raise taxes (if necessary) to balance the budget. Janesville is one of the districts that is struggling with this."
So did they not just cut 10 million for this year from the budget? And now they want to raise taxes to cover the remaining budget? Hmmm, sounds like they cut what they could and now need to raise taxes. Isn't that what you said the "state" (walker)wants? Can't wait to see you try and backtrack out of this. Waiting.......

Whzbang, but it's the GOP who are up in arms over reports that the bottom 50 don't pay much in Federal income tax. Their theory is if you have a refrigerator with a six pack of beer in it - you're rich enough to start paying something. It's the Democrats who are accused of the putting the six pack of beer in the frig.

They should raise them to the maximum allowed to gain maximum state funding from the state. When they raise taxes, NO ONE will go broke that already wasn't. All of this tax drama is from a bunch of folks that CAN AFFORD it. Don't let them fool you they just want to ruin education so they don't have to pay ANY taxes, period.

Looks like Mr. Whipple can't resist giving the Charmin another good squeeze. Ouch!

Anyone here pay property taxes of $1 a week? Evidently luvujvl does. That means his house is worth about $2,600. Where in Janesville can you buy a house for that?

Shulte's comment is 100% wrong. The state does not want the school districts to raise taxes first, the state wants districts to cut spending first and then raise taxes (if necessary) to balance the budget. Janesville is one of the districts that is struggling with this.
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The interesting point is that there are number of districts that cannot balance their budget and all of them have the same problem. The employees do not pay a share of their benefit cost. Maybe Governor Walker did the right thing.

You kill, I think it is the Dems that think we are all rich and must be taxed more. If you are in the bottom 50% you are poor and needy and if you are in the top 50% you are considered rich enough to pay more taxes.

Just remember it was the teachers in Janesville that spit in our eye when asked to pay their fair share of health and retirerment benifits.

Maybe a 10%-20% pay cut for administration would be acceptable? I feel that pay cust are the best path forward and tax increases would be more accepted if the administartion showed they would be willing to give something back. SOmething significant. Otherwise -- no increase.

If you have heat or an air conditioner - you're rich by GOP standards. Time to start paying your fair share.

$40 trash- even though new containers are coming to save $
water bill going up
$20 wheel tax(most have <2 cars)
taxes going up-schools etc
gas is NOT going down
insurance already went up because of mandatory laws
alliant going up
groceries going up
PB going up
I mentioned before mine has gone up over $1000 in 5 years- this is riducoulous
yep what is another $50-
They don't get it-It isn't JUST $50!!!!!!
Those "just $50 for me are over $1,000
remember this is per $100,000 house - so for some this is doubled.
You wonder why some don't turn on the heat or air!

Tax to the max! They have cut too much already!

I wonder if Schulte would still feel that tax to the max attitude if she weren't making $120,000+ a year and actually felt the current economic crunch that so many in Janesville continue to feel. As far as it only being a dollar a week, well wouldn't it be nice if that were the case but it's not only a dollar a week, it's ten dollars here fourty dollars there, increases across the board with more to come! Where does it end, at what point will the heads of local government learn to live within their means? Every person in Janesville is seeing increases in every area whether it's property taxes, water bills, garbage collection fees, which for years was covered by property taxes no matter what they tell us, they were! Put in sidewalks and then we can increase the value of your home and tax you even more!! It has to stop or we will lose even more of Janesvilles tax base as they continue to leave for other communities that can operate within their means. So NO, it's never a dollar a week as Ms. Schulte would like you to think! Tax to the max is not the answer.....

No, It isn't.

$1 a week is a reasonable request.