fear- yes nice and old in a mostly rentals neighborhood. Like to pick it up and move it!
But then pay over $7000 a year. no thanks.
Redneck trucks all around. Got a knife??

most are

Roads and garbage are staples of local government. They tried to pull $135 garbage fee in Waukesha and fortunately it got voted down. There are a few things that local government is expected to do. Call it a ice arena tax or a mural on the pd tax. We need to establish that government feels we are stupid. Are we stupid?

Vato sometimes I just wanna....... and others you really crack me up!!!:) EXCELLENT!! That show could be a job creator!

The biggest problem for our Government leaders is, they don't think the peasants are sending in enough cash for the Kings to spend!

Wheel in the sky keeps on turning......

Dont know if I'll be in Janesville....

Fear

I got an idea for a reality show........we will be rich....

Keeping up with Prisoner Mall Santas

WAIT!! I meant the rule not the exception!!LOL long day forgive me!!

Holy cow frogger that sucks!! My guess is that you have a very nice home , I live in a nice area(NE Janesville) and my taxes are almost always the same. They have gone up and down in the last 10 years.
In case you are insinuating that I am not telling the truth. I am telling the truth. If you look at the school levy over the last 10 years it is very close to what I have been paying. I also had a sidewalk added that was pre-paid by the developer so it didn't cost me a dime. Maybe I am lucky but I certainly thinnk that I am more the exception than the rule.

Is it $10 per vehicle or $10 per wheel?

fear..."The taxes in Janesville have not gone up very much at all in the ten years I have owned a home here, so all of this whining about a few dollars to pay for things YOU USE, is silly to me. Of course many of you are just fine with all of the fees that are rising but ......thats not taxes because the Eagle scout said he wasn't going to raise them"

How did you get so lucky??
I am up to 4700-afraid to open the darn mail box every day wondering what it will be now.
It has gone up over $1000 in 5 years so I guess that fence we put up added $1000 ??????
Enough is a fing nough.

Oh no a $10.00 wheel tax! Beloit and Sheboygan have had this tax forever and it is capped by state law at $10.00 so stop the fear mongering about how its going to go up every year.

TommyRay, congratulations on soon completing your college education. If you're going to relocate when fees/taxes increase by $10 per year, you should consider very short term apartment leases or maybe just drag a travel trailer around with you from city to city and state to state.

Congratulations TommyRay on finishing your education and for your willingness to relocate for employment. That sure beats sitting in Janesville complaining that the government isn't giving you enough. Hopefully Janesville will in the future have jobs. Sadly, it doesn't look good with the union mindset of our local government. They refused the mining project which would have brought some jobs and the city continues to harrass the job providers. We are not sending a welcoming message. I had hoped the mindset would have changed with GM gone but sadly it has not. If Janesville had discovered oil pockets here, it would not have been allowed to develop. The Obamaites and so called "sustainability" groups would have villified any job producers.

As an unemployed person just finishing college and looking to seek employment, I find it to be just another barrier. The problem with this barrier is that it is coming from my community imposing something on someone who can barely afford to survive. This has made my decision to RELOCATE and never register a vehicle with a Janesville address. This was a very bad decision on the part of the council IMHO and from what I see in these comments, that has been justified quite obviously.

"Read the thread, its INSANE"
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not much luck so far, all I have found is a thread where the only statements about military service are the ones you brought up. Perhaps with more digging I will find a nasty comment about this persons service.

..I'll keep looking

"So this constant banter that taxes should just never go up is certainly well founded right"

Fear, 9 times out of 10, taxes have to be raised because there is an out of control budget.

And badger lover, I would not vote for fear because fear is a yes man who crumbles to union demands.

"Especially since you dodged the question with other quotes."
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You had a question buried somewhere in that sprawling series of posts? Sometimes I can follow what your point is but sometimes your posts resemble a roadmap of some Swiss village goat track.
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Your posts to me have all stemed from your use of a questionable quote. My point was that others should know that this oft reposted quote is not positively attributed to Lincoln and that there are plenty of quotes you could use, "My God" Ronnie being one example of a quote that is positively attributed. As for all the "greedy Liars" that are disrespecting a Dem vet..I will look for the story- I haven't heard that one yet but the fact that someone is awarded a BS does not mean much to me without reading the background (though I admit to starting with a positive bias about the individual)...I remind you that many, but not all awards are politicaly based (or awarded based on how well one is liked by the chain of command) an example: Douglas MacArthur was "awarded" the Medal of Honor (after the fall of the Philippines).
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You do seem to use this tactic quite often lately - throw out a side comment to re-direct the conversation when one of you original statements are questioned (the Lincoln quote)
- I do like how you worked that in...instead of a simple "Yes, that quote may not be Lincolns" you move on to your prefered 1% candidate (as in one who may get 1% of the primary vote, at best) and then the standard "..but what about.....?"
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(p.s. your points are further called in to question when you throw out references to "your God"..you usualy do a better job of debating than that)

fearandrhetoric4dummies: Please run for the city council. I'd vote for you in a heartbeat. We need someone with reason and from my point of view, that's you.

well said RAF.

Many people complain about out of control spending, government debt, government waste, corruption..........

Then, when someone finally starts reining in on spending, they go on a media frenzy and state that they don't care about kids, the elderly, the middle class, the poor, etc........

Fear

Do I hate my daughter when I tell her that don't have money in the budget to buy her an I pad?

"in the speech I am referencing there is no comparison between public and private unions"
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Yet you keep trying to put forth the baseless assumption because he supported the idea of private unions this has anything to do with public unions. Apple v. Grape.

"Once you realize the principals of basic math and actually have suggestions of fat to cut"
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A person elected Governor did just that...but all you have done is cry over it.

Actually you should just put your ome up for sale and move away like others are threatening.

Din't you realize that roads fix themselves, garbage picks itself up, water is delivered to your home for free. Also the salaries of the road construction workers and garbage men etc.. should never go up. Not to mention that costs of material and gas are also never going to rise either. So this constant banter that taxes should just never go up is certainly well founded right? Once you realize the principals of basic math and actually have suggestions of fat to cut, then I suggest being a productive member of your community and make suggestions. Other than cut taxes or VOTE them out!! Kinda simplistic IMO.

I am looking for answers that will point out the need for cutting taxes. The Ice arena money would be a good one. Instead of this constant rhetoric , hows about some specifics?

"So far this year, the state has collected more than $2.2 million in sales tax from dispensaries. In Denver, which has more dispensaries than any other city in Colorado, the businesses have also paid more than $2.2 million this year in local sales tax. Colorado Springs has collected about $380,000 in local sales tax."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana...

Meanwhile...Janesville is taxing wheels...

RAF- unfortunately for your repetetive argument , in the speech I am referencing there is no comparison between public and private unions. I know you keep trying to bring it up, but if you look at the transcript of the speech there is ZERO reference to pblic v private. I know that is the basis for your arguments, but Ron's speech was about COLLECTIVE BARGAINING being a cornerstone of freedom in our democracy. You can keep trying to extrapilate what you want from the speech but i would try reading it before making your own assertions.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/re...

it's too bad the majority of the city council have their heads where the sun doesn't shine.....just remember their names at election time and VOTE THEIR SORRY BEHINDS OUT!

It's funny how they can always find money for crap we don't NEED but then when we need something the only way to fund it is by tax increases. These people need their heads checked. I agree that things eventually need repair and the taxpayers are the ones who foot the bill, BUT in a time the economy sucks, people are losing jobs and not finding new ones, and wages have been cut for a lot of people they spring extra costs on the taxpayers while giving city employees raises??? Seriously!!! It's just not right. It's sad and disheartening.

So when is the recall's going to start on this, If this was done on a all GOP all hill would be going on now. But Janesville is 90% Democrats so no great deal.

$10.00 dollars is just the beginning. Next year they will have to raise it and it will never go away. It will be used for other things too and soon end up in the cities general fund. The new wheel Tax of Janesville, just a new money sorce for the city.

"do you have an excuse for your God Ron and his comments? Forget the public v. private unions rhetoric, is that Ron DIRECTLY addresses COLLECTIVE BARGAINING as a basis of freedom. Period. And you and others dodge the question,"
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LOL. The issue is private v. public unions, keep trying to ignore it through your own rhetoric. Still waiting for your quote from dear old Ron on how public unions are a needed entity in our country...just don't mention air traffic controllers.

""My point was - "experience" means nothing... knowledge and the ability to apply and share it mean everything.""
You mad no point. Name a profession where experience means nothing , besides teaching and you will see how ridiculous that statement really is.

Pilot?
Electrician?
IT?
Plumber?
Machinist?
Doctor?
McDonalds Grill worker?
Chef? Waitress?
Fottball Player?
Construction Worker?
Truck Driver?
Radiologist?
Journalist?
Butcher?
Farmer?

Can you name one other than maybe sales? Experience is not only important, its everything!! Go out and ask a hundered prospective employers what is the most important quality for a hire, andd you will find one answer is consistent, EXPERIENCE.
In education EXPERIENCE is not only essential, its ABSOLTELY the most important attribute of every teacher in the school system. Go to a NON-Union private school and you will find that answer to be truem, and they dont have NEARLY the adversity that public school teachers are faced with. Get a freaking clue bud!

No bun bun, I could care less about impressing you or anyone for that matter. You can bring quotes up too thats great, like you I am not impressed. Especially since you dodged the question with other quotes.
The FDR quote? Sure, but if we would have followed FDR's second bill of rights, we wouldn't need any unions, the problem with this country is, its full of greedy liars that could really care less about anyone but themselves.
Proof? Look at the thread in the news today about another "dem" running for congress. BTW that "dem" is a newcomer and an Iraq war hero, with a bronze star. That being said the conservative weirdos come out SLAMMING him right away because his party affiliation. He has ZERO political experience, and chose a party(which I disagree with) but he did. And how is he greeted by the repubs? Read the thread, its INSANE, all because of a letter. If he were a republican with the exact same qualifications he would be a Red white and blue patriot and a war hero, but since he chooses the other side, he is an the pockets of unions already? Really? The hypocricy of you folks is so funny its entertaining.

BTW Bun Bun do you have an excuse for your God Ron and his comments? Forget the public v. private unions rhetoric, is that Ron DIRECTLY addresses COLLECTIVE BARGAINING as a basis of freedom. Period. And you and others dodge the question, I LOVE IT!!

""fearandrhetoric4dummies - technology and the times are changing too fast. A teacher with 15 years experience is likely a teacher 14 years behind the times."" sorry siggy but you could NOT be more wrong. Technology isn't that hard to keep up with, and just because you are 23 doesn't make you more tech savvy than a 38 yr old. Take it from someone in IT.

In education experience is everything, don't really care who agrees its a FACT. While I believe that there are excellent young teachers out there, however, you certainly cannot teach a young person to deal with variables brought forth in each and every year by different students, their abilities/disablities, and their families. I have a very close relative who teaches elementary school for 15 yrs and she sees different variables EACH AND EVERY year. To make silly comments like that really make me laugh.
Let me ask you this , if your sewer backs up in your home and you find out that your plumbing has a very complex problem, and needs to be fixed or your home will be engulfed in mold. Who are you calling to do it, a plumbing apprentice who may have all of the new tools and some new fixes? OR a master plumber with 25 years experience who has seen your problem before and will fix it so you never have to deal with it again.

Like ANY profession experienced professionals are just better at what they do, period. Your problem is that you hate unions, you hate teachers making a middle class wage, and you like to spread rhetoric that young teachers are somehow better than experienced ones.
Your unadulterated hate for unions has blinded you so much that you seem to think that every teacher is somehow just in it for the HUGE salary and just coasting to that golden parachute of a middle class retirement. The anti-union rhetoric is the problem here, the facts are clear, rhetoric is what clouds everything.

The council didn't listen to the people who put them there. Time for them to go. It's not just the wheel tax but everything they are dumping on the home owner. Time for some changes in the right direction.

Next on the list...somehow I'm supposed to be impressed by a Reagan quote regarding private sector unions when the discussion in this state is about PUBLIC sector unions.
How about this quote from FDR: "The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." ..."[a] strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to obstruct the operations of government until their demands are satisfied. Such action looking toward the paralysis of government by those who have sworn to support it is unthinkable and intolerable."
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since you brought up George Meany, even he said "(it's) impossible to bargain collectively with the government."
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how about the New York Supreme Court in 1946?
"To tolerate or recognize any combination of civil service employees of the government as a labor organization or union is not only incompatible with the spirit of democracy, but inconsistent with every principle upon which our government is founded. Nothing is more dangerous to public welfare than to admit that hired servants of the State can dictate to the government the hours, the wages and conditions under which they will carry on essential services vital to the welfare, safety, and security of the citizen. To admit as true that government employees have power to halt or check the functions of government unless their demands are satisfied, is to transfer to them all legislative, executive and judicial power. Nothing would be more ridiculous."
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New York Times labor reporter A. H. Raskin wrote in 1968: "The community cannot tolerate the notion that it is defenseless at the hands of organized workers to whom it has entrusted responsibility for essential services."

My point was - "experience" means nothing... knowledge and the ability to apply and share it mean everything.

fearandrhetoric4dummies - technology and the times are changing too fast. A teacher with 15 years experience is likely a teacher 14 years behind the times. A veteran teacher with many years unless they been keeping up (not mandated) a new teacher will leave them in the dust. People change, the students in a class room today are not like students 15 years ago... so older teachers have to be very adaptable otherwise they are not reaching students. Seen this happen many times.

Who are these "Lincoln Historians"?
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An excerpt from the book: “They never said it: a book of fake quotes, misquotes and misleading attributions” (by Paul F Boller, John George)
“(regarding the labor quote)..but Lincoln was not in the habit of calling people “liars” and “fools”, and there is no record of his ever having uttered these words. Lincoln expert Paul Angle long ago dismissed the quotation as apocryphal, and Lincoln biographer Carl Sandburg once said that if anyone could prove Lincoln was the author of the statement, he would go to Cleveland during a blizzard and ‘roll two peanuts around the bronze statue of honest old Tom Johnson,’ former mayor. He never had to roll the peanuts.”

""support starting salaries of 70 to 80 k for new teachers"" really vato? New, unproven teachers? WHat would you pay a 15 year teacher with a masters degree? I am all for paying teachers more but that would be like paying a bookkeeper to be your CPA, sometimes experience is valuable. In education it means everything, sorry.
You cannot put some 22 year old kid green behind the ears right into a classroom and pay that kind of salary! I swear some will go to no ends to smash the union. Then the next budget comes along and you decide that those same teachers are now only worth 20,000 a year, and they have no recourse!!

Bun Bun- Hows about this one?:
""As president of my union -- the Screen Actors Guild -- I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies. One year ago today on Labor Day George Meany told the American people:

“As American workers and their families return from their summer vacations they face growing unemployment and inflation, a climate of economic anxiety and uncertainty.”

Well I pledge to you in his memory that the voice of the American worker will once again be heeded in Washington and that the climate of fear that he spoke of will no longer threaten workers and their families.""

Or maybe:

""These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland. The values that have inspired other dissidents under Communist domination. They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost. They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children. Today the workers in Poland are showing a new generation not how high is the price of freedom but how much it is worth that price.

I want more than anything I’ve ever wanted, to have an administration that will, through its actions, at home and in the international arena, let millions of people know that Miss Liberty still “Lifts her lamp beside the golden door.” Through our international broadcasting stations -- the Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and the others -- let us send, loud and clear, the message that this generation of Americans intends to keep that lamp shining; that this dream, this last best hope of man on earth, this nation under God, shall not perish from the earth. We will instead carry on the building of an American economy that once again holds forth real opportunity for all, we shall continue to be a symbol of freedom and guardian of the eternal values that so inspired those who came to this port of entry.

Let us pledge to each other, with this Great Lady looking on, that we can, and so help us God, we will make America great again.""

Who made those? Ronald Reagan, the conservative god of all creation. So are you still going to tell me that its out of context?

Wouldn't you say that Lincoln would have been pro-union rights? I certainly do. Who are these "Lincoln Historians"? Hopefully not Bill Orielly, there are many falsehoods that have been uncovered. That being said I believe if he were alive today Lincoln would certainly be a liberal, and Ronald Reagan wouldn't even be allowed to participate in debates, like my guy Buddy Roemer.

Ya its only $10. But we already pay taxes on everything, where is that money going? Tax increases as the cost of living increases over time...Obviously...I wish I paid the same property tax now as they did in 1950. So with this percentage remaining close...why the sudden debt? GM closed, Less students...etc. Well if there is less students, why not make it less teachers? Why not spend less on worthless projects? (consulting on 2 way traffic for down town, consulting on bike tunnel, roundabouts, making Milwaukee st by fagan only 2 lanes, Ice arena, skate park, Parking ramp down town they tore down and then rebuilt a few years later, dumb signs all over "westgate corridor", sidewalks to nowhere, careless maintenance guy at Kennedy school, ect...) The list goes on...What we REALLY need is someone with some financial common sense.
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If we spent wisely we wouldnt be in this situation. Giving the irresponsible people more money to play with is NOT the solution but adding fuel to the fire.

"Dianna Lund, 329 N. Academy, suggested an expiration fee on the wheel tax after several years. She cited Rockford's wheel tax, which rose from $6 in the 1970s to almost $200 today."

Does it really matter if the $10 comes as a "local" wheel tax or a tax from "Madison?" It is our (taxpayer) money either way.

10 dollars per year.

83 cents per month.

19 cents per week.

3 cents per day.

Vatoloco, It is screwing the common man until we get money and lobbyists out of government. That's imperative. One side isn't doing it. Two sides aren't doing it. There are hundreds of sides doing it and pushing their own cause. But in social economics, only one side is being openly attacked by others. That's labor unions. That's where in my book, the equivalency ends.

"Everybody represents something. If unions are at the table, that's free market enterprise and the same representation businesses get when their Rep is at the table for business issues. It works both ways everywhere all the time."

They all get in bed together at some point and screw the common man who is trying to make it everyday.

Did that sound right?

johnnyreb6977, Great Story!! But for Walker bashers? Middleton makes Janesville look like a bunch of sad sacking claw-me-down scrooges. Eric Levitt did nearly the exact same thing, he gave a one-time raise to city employees from "savings" the city collected from those same employees because of Walker's Act 10 budget bill. In Middleton though, they were happy to offset at least some of the wage decrease for employees. They treat their public employees with respect. Not in Janesville. RichE95, the comparison of business to unions doesn't conveniently end where you would like it to end. Everybody represents something. If unions are at the table, that's free market enterprise and the same representation businesses get when their Rep is at the table for business issues. It works both ways everywhere all the time.

All groups regardless of their political leanings, try to influence public policy. The comparison of business and unions pretty much stops there. Public employee unions have used dues withheld by the government to influence elections in order to represent both sides at the bargaining table. Kevin Murray and Tim Cullen (when on the School Board) are perfect examples along with others who seek union support (Rashkin, Steeber etc). They represented the unions but were sitting on the management side of the table. Tough Luck Taxpayers! When a business friendly member was on the board they for sure advocated their side but were sitting on only one side of the table - the management side. The vicious circle was a key contributor to the problems in Wisconsin and remains so in Janesville. Thus the rushing of contracts for both the city and schools before the election of Scott Walker. That was done to avoid contributions that the rest of us make for our benefits.

Fear -- the unions are their to protect the employees from unfair labor practices. If our government wants to employee public servants, no union is required. That eliminates the union money and then I am for elimination of corporate donations to campaigns. Unions should only be present in private business. Compensation of public employees (including benefits) would fall in line with private labor rather quickly and we would see parity, the arguing would end. It would then just be solving issues.

Just for you Walker bashers!
http://www.channel3000.com/education/298...

youkillme, excellent comment. If the Republican agenda was really to reduce state spending, they would have included Fire and Law Enforcement unions in the legislation. These unions, as apposed to the teachers union, are typically Republican supporters, so they weren't included. Walker and his lemmings in the legislature also eliminated items like automatic withdrawl of union dues, and added yearly union certification requirements, neither of which have any fiscal impact on the budget. The Republicans are union busters for political reasons.

"That's why I brought up the same about Chambers of Commerce supporting Republicans. "

I think you bring up apoint YKM.

We have all these forces on both sides with different perceptions.

You are correct, why do millionaires have to lobby when they have much more resources than the average man?

However, the corruption and waste in unions certainly does not help their cause.

The loss of state aid to cities like Janesville is a direct result of Walker's budget. He INCREASED the budget by $1.1 billion. He paid for this by cutting education and other state aid to communities. He can say that he didn't increase STATE taxes, but the result of his policies are most certainly an increase in local taxes/fees.

One of the major problems I've seen immediately coming from those who oppose public sector unions is that most of them don't oppose the union for reasons of purpose or need, but simply because members of public sector unions happen to support democratic candidates and causes. Vatoloco's first sentence, "Public sector unions were conceived to gain more Votes for Democrats" is the worst reason to be against a public sector union. That's a huge red flag. That's also one of the big reasons why many view Walker's budget bill as a war against Democrats. That was uncalled for. If you have a reason of substance to be against public sector unions, that can be worked out. That's why I brought up the same about Chambers of Commerce supporting Republicans. I might oppose what Chambers do because they buy legislation to defeat workers and promote a right-wing agenda, but I don't oppose them or will try to defund them because they are mostly republicans. But Walker and the GOP made this a war - so now we have to respond by identifying who supports it and who funds it.

RichE95, the Dakotas, and much of the central corridor from Montana to Texas, suffered little in this last recession, because of the natural resources they can exploit. The job growth there is in oil and natural gas. Hardly an example of efficiently run governments. They simply have more tax revenue, so local communities did not see their state aid cut like most other states.

You folks do realize that the City Council has nothing to do with teacher salaries, right?

(oops, double post.. hate when that happens)....

just a point of note - the Lincoln union quote is believed to be apocryphal and has been dismissed by most Lincoln biographers. Besides the quote is supposedly from the 1850's but labor unions did not arise in the US till the 1870's. I'm sure you can find quotes to fit your arguments but this one is bogus.

just a point of note - the Lincoln union quote is believed to be apocryphal and has been dismissed by most Lincoln biographers. Besides the quote is supposedly from the 1850's but labor unions did not arise in the US till the 1870's. I'm sure you can find quotes to fit your arguments but this one is bogus.

Janesvillean lives in a make believe world. We live here because it is our home town and we care about Janesville. But the notion that Janesville is run more efficiently than other communities is foolishness. Head to Iowa, South Dakota, North Dakota etc. You will find great schools, great services, much lower taxes, and business moving in. Slurs against others by City Councilmen (Liebert, Rashkin) in a regular meeting are far worse and more destructive to Janesville than anything written in these files. Along with School Board members like Kevin Murray they are a hindrence to any improvement in Janesville's future. We are becoming a community that wants to ride in the cart rather than pull it.

vatoloco...... are the US armed forces not a union of people, working for the same cause. You seem tobe the real issue.... (commical).

positively: You're absolutely right. I can only assume that most of the posters here have never lived anywhere else and have no experience with politics or corruption elsewhere. By no means is Janesville perfect, but it's run very efficiently and actually has a low tax rate compared to peer cities in Wisconsin. You'd never know that reading the Gazette comments, though.
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Really. People think Janesville has problems? You have no, and I mean no, idea how bad it is almost everywhere else. The worst thing that people can come up with is that the city is NOT cutting the salaries of its employees unilaterally and is planning to FIX an ice rink that's been a city facility for decades. It's comical.

You kill me

I agree. But private unions do serve that purpose, to equalize the work environments. Private is a whole different matter.

janesvillean, honestly you make me laugh! You make it sound like money from the state is free paper! Where do you think THAT money comes from? The magic money fairy?? The burden of financial acumen should be at the level that spends it.

Vatoloco, Chambers of Commerce are conceived to gain more votes for Republicans. What does that mean? Nothing. A bunch of opinions. The fact is employee unions are needed in monopolized work environments. They are desperately needed in China, but Communists run the country and would rather exploit labor than empower it. The facts are clear. America rose to prominence because its labor force rose to prominence. And we are declining for those same reasons. It doesn't matter whether liberals were once skeptical of unions or what Mayor Lagaurdia or Ronald Reagan have to say about public sector unions. Those are biased projections.

You kill me

Public sector unions were conceived to gain more Votes for Democrats.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpete...

IN A well-informed article in the Wall Street Journal Fred Siegel points out that, far from being part of the natural order of industrial society, public-sector unions were created by deliberate political decisions, as the Democratic Party saw a treasure trove of votes in organised public-sector workers. What was created by political will can also be undone by it:

The turbulent years of the 1960s and '70s are best known by the headline-grabbing civil rights and women's rights movements. But there was another "rights" movement, largely overlooked, that has also had a profound effect on American life. The looming public-pension crisis that threatens to bankrupt city, county and state governments had its origins in those same years when public employees, already protected by civil-service rules, gained the right to bargain collectively. Liberals were once skeptical of public-sector unionism. In the 1930s, New York Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia warned against it as an infringement on democratic freedoms that threatened the ability of government to represent the broad needs of the citizenry. And in a 1937 letter to the head of an organization of federal workers, FDR noted that "a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable."

Employee unions are absolutely needed in government because government is a monopolized work environment. The American labor unions are one of several examples of American exceptionalism and their decline mirrors the decline of our country. I wonder about several of the posters here about what and who they would blame if there were no labor unions. Next in line I suppose would have to be government and then Democrats.

What next? A wheel tax on lawnmowers and snowblowers?

Mouse

Let's us know when you are ready to discuss real issues....

Fear

I am not bashing teachers. I am bashing the process of education.

I support starting salaries of 70 to 80 k for new teachers but we need to do a better job of recruitment and better methods of getting rid of bad teachers stuck with antiquated teach practices.

Just because you have an education degree, or masters or PHD, does not mean you are effective.

Education reform has to be driven by parents, teachers, and community interests and not government officials or unions.

Having worked in several union environments I assure you that they spend 95& of their time protecting the 5% of workers who don't deserve it. Unfortunately, the dismissal rate for poor teachers is nowhere near 5%. None of this is about the children. It is all about adults who have no understanding of how economics work. The market will always win in the end no matter what the system - (see Soviet Union, East Germany etc). Reform will come to Janesville - the question is how painful will it be? Our City Council and School Board are on a path to more pain.

RetiredAirForce..... was the airforce a union, or did you just do as you liked? Pack your peanut and jelly and go fly a bomber..... was that how it worked?

Earned said-""Our teachers walk around as if we owe them, kinda like GM workers use too... ""
And you said you dont make blanket statements? THAT is what sets me off. Again hate is hate , don't backtrack now. I don't get defensive of teachers unless someone make s ridiculous statement, and THAT WAS ridiculous.

" they need protection from politicians that are bought and paid for,"
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Who protects the taxpayers from the public union bought and paid for politicians?

"You must not have respect for children since it sounds like you are a very anger educator yourself."
Maybe you should ask for a refund of your diploma, what does that sentence mean? My "supposed" college degree? At least I can form a sentence!LOL.
I am not a teacher, BTW.

If you read my post, I am not bashing all teachers. I am upset with the lazy Union Representation that in all honestly only seems to care about protecting the bad teachers not working for the hard working ones. I have never said a teacher is a babysitter, nor that I don't respect teachers. There are teachers in the Janesville School District, the UW Colleges that need to be replaced. But the Unions want to keep the bad ones and don't protect our tax dollars so that our children can have a great education.

and it is people making dumb blanket statements that sicken me. Comparing teachers to UAW workers at GM sleeping,drinking doing drugs on the job is the dumbest comparison I have ever heard. But your hate for unions defines every quote you make.
Remember I have NEVER belonged to a UNION in my life. I do understand the need for them. I also have no problem with paying more for other generations education,why, because it is important, and because someone paid for mine.

Hate is an easy emotion to debate , especially when you make ridiculous blanket statements.
Still waiting for your link to the "YOU TUBE" video. I happen to have collected signatures and have seen NOTHING but respect, so please provide example, thanks.

ezoner , at least you make a point without bashing name calling or labeling. That being said, they need protection from politicians that are bought and paid for, not the government. Especially our most important servants, Police, fire, and TEACHERS.

fear... did the taxpayers of State of Wisconsin pay for your supposed college degree? You must not have respect for children since it sounds like you are a very anger educator yourself. Maybe if you are a teacher or school administrator than you should find other employment. You are angry about everything not just teachers being lazy. There are hard working teachers, but there are lazy teachers that give the hard working ones a bad name. I have NEVER SAID THERE WEREN'T GOOD HARD WORKING TEACHERS!! It is their Union Representatives and how they chose to stand behind the lazy ones that sickens me! Maybe that is why you are still employed who knows.

""Fear

You also need people that make tough unpopular decisions not yes men and women. That does not cut it either
""
That being said vato we need people making decisions based on whats best for the district not based playing to a base of empty nesters in town that don't want to pay property taxes, or based on what they do or don't want to pay in property taxes. Blaming everything on teachers salaries is a common tactic for some in this district and getting old. NOTHING is more important than the teachers, NOTHING, so the constant bashing of them has caused many of them toleave for other districts where they are making less money. Smeone needs to address the fund 10 balance and tell the taxpayers in Janesville why there is a 30 million dollar surplus built (on the teachers health insurance) that they will not use to balance the budgetI get so angry with this constant teacher bashing here and yet the district has banked upwards o 30 million dollars because of savings made from surpluses in the health insurance fund for the teachers. Ask questions DEMAND answers.

""You are very hostile and confrontational. I have the video of the Recall Walker Rally people, and it is on YOU TUBE!!! Don't you think I would upload that garbage? I have children in the Janesville School District and am tired of the Lazy ones that keep their jobs due to a lazy teachers union that doesn't want to cut the dead wait. If you can't agree with that then maybe you should take that high school diploma back and get a refund.""

That is a private message I recieved from Earned not given.
First I would like Him/her/it to post the names of the so-called lazy teachers since he has proof of laziness.
Second I would like a link to the "YOU TUBE" post that shows this I have looked for it and cannot find.
Third should I return my college degree for a refund too? since I dont agree with your teacher bashing hate speech?

All this coming from a guy who says he is now leaving the city of janesville over a 10$ wheel tax, really? Seriously, have your opinions and POST them. Don't send me private messages telling me to return my diploma like that would be offensive to me coming from you. Good luck leaving Janesville and moving, you will find out how excellent the Janesville schools are. My guess is that you are one of those parents that thinks that your kids teachers job is to babysit your kids, because there is a TON of that gouing on in janesville.

Just have the courage to come at me on here, dont hide like that. If your post gets removed so be it, I certainly am not afraid of a private conersation, as long as its not ridiculous, hate filled, rhetoric.

BTW you are right I am VERY hostile when it comes to people bashing teachers. It drives me NUTS. Until you are ready to volunteer in a classroom for a week and tell me again how lazy they are, then your hate is based on little more than a talking point.

All poublic unions should be elminated. These are all government employees and should be allowed to be unionized. If the government is so great (As libs believe), then no protection is required from the government..... only unions in the private sector would be necessary.

Fear

You also need people that make tough unpopular decisions not yes men and women. That does not cut it either.

keepyoujoy... I agree totally, we have local dieing Union's that want to keep their candidate's within the City Council each and every election. They are going away but in all honesty the UAW 95's educational basis isn't more than Union Education that is drilled into their brains since day one. I feel that we should change alot around here, one being that major issues the council votes on should be a referendum during all elections. Let us vote on what we want, hear our voices not just give us one to three minutes to talk to the council when they meet. They don't honestly care and have already made up their mind before the meeting starts. After seeing the past counting of votes and seeing the council's reactions to some comments, I think that honestly they don't even communicate together about hardly anything. Then you have cry babies that want to hide behind a screen name on here and try to call people out all the time. The $10 dollar wheel tax is stupid, but the fact the council isn't honestly seeing the big picture of our city makes me sick and honestly this is a union sinking ship here in Janesville,WI. There is alot that needs to be fixed starting with Local, then State, then Federal! Eric Levitt in my personal opinion needs to be fired, so that he can see what the majority of our residents are feeling. Yuri Rashkin is the only member of the council that can relate in a small bit to any resident here. However he did what he did to himself, it wasn't due to closure of GM or any plant that supported it. So that is on him.

""Problem is the system of elections we have in Janesville.
Janesville needs a modern mayor system so there is a easy accountability.
All Council seats should all be up for election at one time.""

I AGREE , I would also go so far as to say the same should be true of the school board. a lot tougher for the anti-teacher zealots to get elected in a stand alone, instead of getting 20% of the vote and getting in.

Poor Sigma, the private sector employee who only owns six vehicles. Sometimes it does suck to be you.

Taxes are the price we pay to live in a free society.

$10 a year is not too much to maintain our streets. We all use them every day.

city council works for free? Would you trust a doctor or lawyer that worked for free? Why are we leaving important decisions in the hands of people that dont even get paid to do a job? Why should they care??

Problem is the system of elections we have in Janesville.
Janesville needs a modern mayor system so there is a easy accountability.
All Council seats should all be up for election at one time.Presently we do not have a mixture because a group of people can vote in groups each election, and keep all their key members on the board with their agenda.
Janesville needs to compensate elected people with a small wage like the schools do a coach to offset the expenses.
We need away to encourage candidates.
Janesville is a rare City that does not have a Mayor,and compensated council people.

"The 2012 budget includes raises for police officers, firefighters, bus drivers and public works employees."

In an age where millions are unemployed, this is absolutely ridiculous.

Public sector unions need to be outlawed.

Private unions I have no issue with.

I can't wait to move out of this union controlled sinking ship of fools.

Isn't this a good thing? Instead of some politician in Madison raising fees and taxes, our local government has to answer directly to its constituents and take some responsibility for their actions. If they need more money, they don't have to ask Madison for the money, and then have Madison raise fees here, instead they have to directly go to the local taxpayer. Yes, it may put some burden on the local governments right now, but it should have happened long ago. More fiscal responsibility is put on the local governments and your local fees are going to stay local and provide for YOUR public employees salaries.

positively - you think we have one of the best run cities in the USA? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! They are financially handicapped.

This comment taxed to death by the city council.

I hope they dont find out about my unicycle

fear..did ya ever think Lincoln meant labor in general terms and not unions as he didn't use the term union, especially if there' were no unions then?

If the taxpayers in the city of Jville dont take notice what these four city board members
are doing and permanently remedy the situation
we are doomed!

fear you don't get it, most on the right have no problems with private unions. Reagan, if you forgot, stood up against a public union and fired them all; air traffic controllers.

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt 1937: "All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."

1959 the AFL-CIO Executive Council stated that "government workers have no right [to collectively bargain] beyond the authority to petition Congress—a right available to every citizen."

There are plenty more, should I go on?

Funny how whenever a conservative says something it's an out and out lie, but when a liberal says something it's the gospel! Have a question ask a liberal they know it all, they think they have to control every aspect of a persons life after all! If the conservatives get their way this country will be known as the Nanny States of America!

"What another TAX? Kathy Voskuil, Russ Steeber, Yuri Rashkin and Deb Dongarra-Adams voting in favor.."

mr Steeber's entire career was and is funded by the "taxpayer" heck he'll probably even get one of those merit bonus's too....

RAF_ What about Ronald Reagan? President of a union and supported them in a speech 2 months before being elected.
""

These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland. The values that have inspired other dissidents under Communist domination. They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost. They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children. Today the workers in Poland are showing a new generation not how high is the price of freedom but how much it is worth that price.""

fear, what public union did Abraham Lincoln stand behind...oh yeah there wern't any then. Hmmmmm.

fearandrhetoric4dummies... I am fed up with the immature actions of the Recall Walker's, OCCUPY who actually walked up to a Service Member in Civilian Clothes this past weekend (3 Janesville School Teachers) and when asked to sign their petition he declined. These teachers actually called him,"Unpatriotic" not knowing what he does for a living. I was disgusted by this and the fact that our City Council SHOULD be PROFESSIONAL, however Mr. Liebert and Mr. Steeber have proven they are far from Professional! The Council hasn't done ANYTHING to bring Jobs to our area except Slander Governor Walker when they don't agree with something.
It is funny that when Republican's don't agree with something the Democrats do they deal with it. When the Democrats don't like something a Republican does they cry until the get their way. I am so tired of the drama around here, our police and fire work hard. Our teachers walk around as if we owe them, kinda like GM workers use too... The Federal Government has failed us through bad business practices, and now the Local Government is trying to fill in where they left off.

Four city council seats will be up for election. Some of posters here who regularly claw down their neighbor and want public employees and services for free should step right up. At least the pay scale for Janesville city council members is something you can agree with. It should be a crowded field.

"If any man tells you he loves America and hates labor, he is a liar. If any man tells you he trusts America , yet fears labor, he is a fool."
-Abraham Lincoln
a well renowned socialist.

I find it absolutely hilarious that someone actually would threaten to sell his home because of a 10 dollar wheel tax? I am still laughing!! Please leave, OH ya good luck selling your home in this market! BTW the bath you take on selling your house would have paid for your wheel tax for probably 200 years!!

I am with the previous poster, the tax complainers are the same ones that will piss and moan when the police take an hour to get to their house in crisis, or if their home burns down because of a broken down fire department, or when their kids are ignored by their teachers who just graduated from HS. The fact is ROADS cost MONEY, the people that use them i.e. car owners should be paying for it, remember no one forced anyone to buy a car, let alone 6!(LOL)
The taxes in Janesville have not gone up very much at all in the ten years I have owned a home here, so all of this whining about a few dollars to pay for things YOU USE, is silly to me. Of course many of you are just fine with all of the fees that are rising but ......thats not taxes because the Eagle scout said he wasn't going to raise them? Any local tax increases can be directly attributed to funding cuts from the state , YES. Do you even know ow the tax formula works? BTW I have news for you that tax money is also money that we all contributed, so MAYBE all of those Walker tools aren't quite the fix that we needed.
I have many issues with the city council, but this is certainly not one.

Blame Bush for the middle eastern wars? Um ya, who made the decision to march over there? You certainly could tie many other administrations to the sub-prime crisis one of them being Reagan, others being Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama. As far as Jimmy Carter goes I think the statute of limitations is starting to be a factor don't you?

If $10 is good $1000.00 would be better, there is never a limit on doing good.

I see an incredible number of Illinois plates while driving around. Umm.. How can we get in their tax dodge?

Do any of you who are posting read what you write? Seriously, we have one of the best run and most efficient cities in Wisconsin. We have a city staff that is devoted to making this community a good place to live. And we have amenities to be proud of. The comments made by council are right on; we need to plan for major repairs to the infrastructure which was developed twenty plus years ago. (And no - I don't work for the city)
It's really sad to read so many negative comments. And it really doesn't matter what the topic; the same writers are consistently negative. How sad to go through life being so angry at life.
And for those who feel $10 wheel tax is too much, how much do you pay for a pack of cigarettes or a case of beer? Hmmm.

The price of a twelve pack and it might save you from a 5th DUI.

This is a very regressive tax, and the Council should be ashamed of themselves. They have created a precedent for our city to do anything possible to raise revenue without affecting the property tax levy. Next target will be motorcyles and RV's, or perhaps a per bag fee for garbage, all representing a race to the bottom for Janesville.

Thanks Janesville City Council you have just made my decision for me. I will be selling my house in Janesville, WI and will be leaving thanks to the small minded 6 who listen to Eric Levitt instead of actually thinking for yourselves. It is bad enough we are in bad times financially as a City, but you want to make it worse! I am so disgusted with all of you City Council.........

at least my bicycle is safe for know! that will be next

fubar75 - collector and hobbyist plates you only have to pay a 1 time registration fee and they are good forever.... no annual renew. So they can avoid the wheel tax...lol. I have 6 vehicles... this sucks.

Blaming this tax increase on Scott Walker...?

You probably blame George Bush for the war in Afghanistan/Iraq, Ronald Reagan for the sub-prime banking crisis, and Jimmy Carter for the high cost of new homes.

You are letting them steal your power, and pride when all you do is complain on a anonymous web page.
There is power in numbers.Join a Janesville Facebook page, and start a online petition that is identifiable so Officials get a clear message of the what the voting public would advise.

doc0430, Walker did not restrain himself, he did not cut his own budget. He cut programs but did not cut his budget proportionally, instead he spent like a wild bloated drunken sailor and increased overall state spending by $1.1 billion and is expecting a $300 million surplus. Where did he get this money from plus fill a supposed $3.6 billion hole? That's a $5 billion reversal that somebody is paying during hard times. Get used to it.

yet another reason to move out of janesville... way to suck more money out of poor people...

Maybe it's time to occupy outside the Janesville's municipal building, right out front Mr. Levitt's office! Taking this quote from the article; "City Manager Eric Levitt said the council should not count on more funds from the state. The continued decrease in state aid in past years means the city has to find new revenue to provide the same services, he said." The continued decreases doesn't mean you need to raise local taxes, it means you are needing to be more fiscally responsible you idiot! The Governor isn't making budget cuts so you have to raise local taxes, he's doing it to show there needs to be some restraint done doing these hard times, when will they learn this? When Janesville has a 50% vacancy rate in homes and businesses?? Where will all the extra money come from then?!?

Not that $10 is a big deal but what about people who collect cars. Doesn't seem fair to pay an extra tax because of a passion/hobby. I know I'm wishing in one hand...but it would be nice if they exempted collector/hobbyist cars that don't see the city streets the proposed tax is supposed to help.

How does everyone like Scott Walker's tools now?

(This comment was wheeled out of Janesville by the site staff)

$75 for a car, $145 for small SUV, and $185 for a pick up truck in Chicago. Ever drive on the pot hole filled streets there? Won't be long and the "fees" will be the same in Janesville. Oh, and they boot your car if you don't have a city sticker.

Time to move out of Janesville!
Obviously the city doesn't understand
the unemployment and lower wage situations!
Not to mention all the foreclosures and
empty houses! How do they figure the cost
of everything is going up for services, when
both businesses and homes are on the decline????

Ten bucks says the monies are used for projects other than road repairs. How many vehicles are registered in the city? Times $10.00 each, that's a pretty hefty amount for just road repairs. I don't see how the wheel tax has made the roads any better in Beloit than they are here in Janesville.

How ironic! The city that was built on cars, now gets taxed on cars after the plant is gone. The public unions will get their money, the tax payers get it in the end!

What another TAX? Kathy Voskuil, Russ Steeber, Yuri Rashkin and Deb Dongarra-Adams voting in favor.. Do you people realize that wages and jobs are no longer here as before... Wages, cut.. Jobs, Cut..... Everyone is taking LESS.. Yet the city manager wants to keep all the services... Lets try this.. Until things get better... The city cuts services... and JOBS.. and Wages.. Just like the rest of the people... You don't get more...YOU TAKE LESS... Well, come election time.. I think those above will find they no longer have a council job... Common sense should rule the day.. NOT HERE... It's all about bonuses and raises...

What a terrible thing to do to your city residents - shame on you city council. If you get too much wheel tax money, you will probably give it to city workers as extra-additional-merit pay supplement.

Once again, the Janes-evil council rips off the city residents. They stiff us from both ends - new taxes (like the wheel tax) and merit payment to city workers (with the EXTRA money they didn't need)

What another TAX? Kathy Voskuil, Russ Steeber, Yuri Rashkin and Deb Dongarra-Adams voting in favor.. Do you people realize that wages and jobs are no longer here as before... Wages, cut.. Jobs, Cut..... Everyone is taking LESS.. Yet the city manager wants to keep all the services... Lets try this.. Until things get better... The city cuts services... and JOBS.. and Wages.. Just like the rest of the people... You don't get more...YOU TAKE LESS... Well, come election time.. I think those above will find they no longer have a council job... Common sense should rule the day.. NOT HERE... It's all about bonuses and raises...

As it turns out, we need a wheel tax to help fund the merit payments to city workers.

Janevillian why blame the state? City council voted for merit increases for some city workers, ice rink, etc. you can't spend money you don't have. Learn to live with what you have. Walker is doing what should have been done a long time ago.

Good Comment JANESVILLIAN - So very correct you are about Walker. It should be called the Walker tax - Good name for the guy that will be RECALLED.

And the exodus out of Janesville continue....

And after this if theres still pot holes in my street that the city keeps patching up with crap that leaves rocks all over the street, I'm complaining to the city directly. There shouldn't be any excuse for them to not re-pave a street that is one giant pothole patch.

This is the first time ever that I think I'm considering not paying to register my car..

Till you form/join a identifiable Facebook group,and form the modern way to do a petition on change.org you can complain on here, and attend council meeting, and speak for ever.
No one listens to one person,and people with out a name.
Call a Council person about a issue is not track able, and worthless.
Online facebook petition are identifiable,and have been used through many Governments.

Till you form/join a identifiable Facebook group,and form the modern way to do a petition on change.org you can complain on here, and attend council meeting, and speak for ever.
No one listens to one person,and people with out a name.
Call a Council person about a issue is not track able, and worthless.
Online facebook petition are identifiable,and have been used through many Governments.

This city council, with the crap they are pulling...sidewalks, now this wheel tax, better pay attention to what's happening to Walker. They are not listening to the citizens of Janesville but rather doing what they want regardless of what the people who pay their huge paychecks think. Is this council dumb enough to think they are going to keep getting voted in time after time? People are clearly fed up with government that doesn't listen!

There's four council members who just LOST a vote next time around...

Their cost went up very slightly for water, but they're jacking us for 21%. Why do people put up with this?

I think it's time to start removing counsel members along with the governor.

It isn't a raise. It's prevention of a pay cut that was decided in Madison, not here in Janesville.
.
This wheel tax should be called the "Walker tax". It's pretty sly how they set this up so that every taxing body in the state would have to decide between cutting services or raising taxes or fees, making the local councils and boards the bogeyman.

It's time to pay the true cost of car use. Good going Janesville. $10 is not enough.

I'm a middle of the road guy, but wow. Raises? To city employees and taxes/fees?