"what is it that the "taxpayer" wants? Quality or substandard services? You get what you pay for."
-
The tax payer should always receive fiscal responsible spending. Throughout this state contract details have shown the results of collective bargaining have not always provided this. Quality of service is obtained elsewhere in our society without these same restrictions there is no reason it should not happen with public provided funding as well.

RAF: I agree that defining wealthy is a difficult thing to do, and that is where a lot of confusion comes in with taxing. I do not know exactly what the solution is to make sure that everyone is paying their fair share, but the loopholes that allow the rich to pay a lower rate than the middle class and the poor need to be closed. Again, I agree, I do not know how much this will bring the state, but it needs to be done as every little bit would help. On the benefits of collective bargaining you ask, "what is the added benefit to the tax payers?" I guess my first response would be, what is it that the "taxpayer" wants? Quality or substandard services? You get what you pay for.

I agree tax breaks and tax credits are abused by politicians, a flat tax system with no breaks would be my choice. Not sure how much more money this will bring into the state but I still think it is a good idea.

I do have issues with raising any taxes. Corporate tax costs are always passed on to the end user, in most cases the consumer; so any raise in business costs is paid by the consumer anyway. Additionally raising the cost of business in the state for companies/corporations might keep importation of new jobs lower as well as providing the leverage needed for existing business to leave.

As far as taxing the wealthy more, what is the definition of wealthy? According to the latest available census data there were 56,735 people that made more than $200,000 per year in wisconsin. In order to make up the missing stimulus dollars included in the current budget applied to only these people would cost them $14,000 more per year in taxes, again which only makes up the missing stimulus money. What is the rate you would consider too high? There was a time in our nation when the highest tax rate was 91%. During the many years this rate was in effect all but one of them the debt level continued to increase. http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADP...

On collective bargaining you state it help both sides, what is the added benefit to the tax payers?

Dems even use a jackass for their mascot. It's actually a good thing.

How is jackass even a word that can get a post removed? It is not obscene, vulgar, or sexually oriented, nor is it a creative spelling of any of those types of words. I did not threaten anyone, the word jackass can not be taken as anything racist, sexist, etc. Calling someone a jackass is not harassment anymore than calling someone "ignorant" or a "jerk", which are terms that are used in these discussions quite commonly, without any repercussions. "Jackass" is also not a personal attack. In fact, in my second post I did not even direct the word at anybody.

RAF: The first step to closing the budget gap would have been to not give any more corporate tax breaks. These may help create jobs in the long run, but studies have shown that this isn't necessarily true. If we are in such a financial crisis right now that Walker felt the need to balance the budget on the backs of public workers, the breaks should never have been given. I would also suggest closing the loopholes that allow corporations to transfer money between their subsidiaries to prevent themselves from paying more in taxes. I know that it may not be a popular thing to do, but I would actually suggest raising taxes on the wealthy and on corporations. When the average bonus for a random selection of 50 CEOs has gone up 30% over the last year, but the average salary of a worker is up only 2% over the last year, there is a big problem. http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/...
I am not saying that it is not difficult to run a corporation, some of that bonus money is likely deserved, but when the discrepancy between pay is that large, something needs to be done to level the playing field. I would have suggested putting a 2 year freeze on public worker's salary (maybe 4 years, it depends on the numbers of those under contract and those whose contracts are up), maybe even asking them to contribute the 12% and 5% towards pension and health care, but I would have left collective bargaining alone. There are many counties, cities, school districts, etc. that have come out in support of keeping it around, it actually helps both sides (and no, all of these people are not in the pocket of the union, that argument doesn't fly). I would also have my children attend school in the city of Madison; if it is going to be a shared sacrifice as Walker says it should be, I would not expect the taxpayers to pay for my children to be transported back and forth between Madison and the schools in the city where we formerly lived. I would also not fly around the state to promote my "jobs plan", again on the taxpayers' dime (I'm actually surprised this isn't getting more attention). That's a start, now what were your recommendations?

Your civility is entertaining. Did you plan on answering questions or is your intent to just question positions others have while never once offering your ideas on how to fix the budget issues?

"I asked you again, are you then against the no-bid contracts? No response."
-
It was answered 4 times.

"I gave you links to articles supporting my claim that the DOA has lied and I asked you again, do you really believe what is coming from the DOA? No response."
-
I don't care what a madison paper had to say. I did respond to the estimate 4 different times.

"I explain to you my point that Walker did not actually address all of the expenses that go in to running a school district when he made his fancy spreadsheet, no response."
-
I answered this twice. This has never been the function of the state...

"I point out that there is no way that we as taxpayers will continue to get the same services for the amount of money that we pay, no response."
-
This is an obvious point. What do you want a pat on the back? I did not dispute this did I?

So glad you can keep your comments in a civil tone...I anxiously wait your continued civil discourse while you now answer the questions asked of you.

Is there other, previously unanswered, questions or comments on the issues you have or do you want to rehash the same items over-and-over?

You claim other governors have not done what is being done, yet they are being done; ohio and new jersey to name only two. The problem with these type of arguments, when people make statements claiming things that are completely untrue they fail to look up the truth first...eerily similar to your complaint of the DOA, but never mind.

What is your answer to the budget deficit and debt facing Wisconsin? The current budget included 1.2 billion in new taxes and an extra ~800 million in stimulus funding not available for the next budget; yet the government spent all that plus more. History has shown that increasing taxes has not reduced debt levels; because spending is never controlled. History has shown that tax reductions have not reduced debt levels; because spending is never controlled. Yet when government tries to rein in spending and manage within the means of the taxpayers there is opposition.

With all your questions for me, that I patiently answered, some more than once, the least you could do is provide your answer for the problems and how best to fix them. Complaining over how things are done is the easy part...

Great article about the DOA crowd "estimates"

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/arti...

RAF: To take a page out of your book...

"Still waiting for you to discuss the issues...

crickets, crickets, crickets."

I will again suggest that any school board, village/city council or other local body that oversees how taxpayer money is spent should heed warning that we are watching what they are doing in order to pacify the unions. They are hired/elected to represent the taxpayers not the employees.
The amount of money being spent on union benefits can not be sustained and so it must be reduced.

RAF: There has not been a governor that has ever cut funding from education in the way that Walker is planning to. I will repeat what I said, if he is going to claim that his "tools" will prevent districts from having to cut, he should account for all of the factors.  What is it that you do not understand about that statement?

Wando how many times do you want me to address the same items? I see you have no understanding of the government funding formula nor do you care to want to. What you "expect" from the process has never happened before why would that be any different today?

RAF: Not once did I say it is required that the government go through the specifics. I am saying that I would expect the Governor and his cabinet to crunch those numbers when they are going to make sweeping claims about the "tools" that they are providing. Funny how this was the only thing you responded to, that's ok though I wouldn't expect much more from someone like yourself.

Like I said, there are crazies on both sides : )
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/30...

Wando you fail to understand local school districts just like counties and city governments set their own spending priorities regardless of funding levels. Your thinking that agencies that provide funding are required to think of the lower level budget expenditures shows you have no idea how government funding works.

RAF: No need to get defensive, I was just wondering. I agree the system is quite flawed, unfortunately it doesn't seem that it will be repaired anytime soon.

So you're not ok with the no-bid contracts then? Because there is no way for the public to know that the sales would be in the best interest of the state if they are sold under no-bid contracts.

The fact of the matter is that we as taxpayers are not getting any tax-breaks, correct? Assuming that you are not rich/large business owner or a combination of the two, Walker has done nothing to reduce your taxes. This being said, with all of the budget cuts there will be services that are either cut back or done away with altogether. So you will in fact be paying the same amount of taxes and likely receiving less services.

The link that you provided includes the exact spreadsheet that I was talking about. He and his staff did a great job of crunching the numbers in their favor, but did not account for the factors that I had already mentioned. How can they make the claims that 329 out of 423 school districts (I should have said districts before) will not have to make cuts even after the budget because of his "tools" without actually accounting for all of the expenses that go into running a school district?

You seem like an intelligent person, so I'm really confused as to how you really can't see past the b.s. that the DOA has pulled. Do you really think the $7.5 was an estimate? Or do you think that they just blurted out a number to make it sound like the protestors had done irreparable damage to the Capitol? I can assure you that there is very minimal damage to any surface, I have seen it personally and there have been numerous media outlets that have also cried foul at the original "estimate". The DOA has and is continuing to spin numbers in favor of the Governor. How is it that the DOAs crowd estimate numbers are always much, much smaller that the Madison PD crowd estimates? It's because Madison PD is counting people that the DOA isn't. That might sound crazy, but that was the DOAs response when asked that exact question. Can the DOA only count as high as 66,000 and then they just give up, or are they for some reason not able to see the additional protestors that the Madison PD does? (Madison PD estimate was 85,000 to 100,000)
*Just to be clear I completely understand what an estimate is, though I do appreciate your attempts to belittle me. They are rather entertaining.
http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/arti...

wando I have never attended any political rally or event. My political leanings are much more libertarian than any other party. But, thanks to the two party system and the way the people from those parties have set the rules for others wanting to participate it leaves most voters little choice but to voice support for/against candidates from either of the "two" parties.

If you asked do I support or agree with the some ideas from the tea party movement I would say yes. Your point in asking?

RAF: Out of curiosity I must ask, would you consider yourself to be a tea party republican?

"You are ok with the state selling plants at any price, not necessarily to the highest bidder?"
-
If there is a bid for 1 million dollars higher but the new bid will not ensure all power remains on the wisconsin grid and refuses to guarantee a fixed low rate to existing state facilities now serviced by those plants it would be smart to refuse it. It is more than just the bid price that is important here.

"ok with continuing to pay the same amount in taxes and getting fewer services for them?"
-
You are now over reaching. How does one here cause the other? If you are not required to recycle your taxes are also not paying for it...if you choose to that is your choice.

"There was a time when the federal government did not have a negative viewpoint of smoking...The same could happen with phosphorus levels, I myself would prefer to live on the safer side."
-
Then install water filters on your house. Wasting tax dollars so you feel better is not a priority.

"If only simple accounting math is needed to figure out how helpful the “tools” will be why is it that he and his cabinet have not been able to do it correctly?"
-
Really? A list has been published of every county, city, and school district in the state showing their savings or loss. http://walker.wi.gov/journal_media_detai...

"If he is going to make claims that 329 out of 423 schools will not have to make cuts because of the “tools” that he is providing, it would make sense that they actually go into detail and account for the increasing expenses in other areas."
-
What areas?

"You say that not wasting tax payer money is always in the best interest of the state; tax payers are not saving a penny with the nearly $1 billion cut"
-
Not spending money is savings.

"are you suggesting that education funding is a waste?"
-
Did I say that? No.

"Do you really believe that the $7.5 million figure wasn't a lie?"
-
It was an estimate. You claimed it was a lie but never backed it up.

"You said it yourself, they didn't even do a real estimate on the “damage”,"
-
Because the court would not allow removing items to perform the inspection.

"how is pulling a random number out and claiming that it is the real cost not be a lie?"
-
I guess you have never heard of estimates...they are done all the time.

Other Walker/DOA mistruths:
-
Wait, you said other DOA lies...still waiting.

"underestimating the number of protestors at rallies,"
-
Do you have an accurate count? All crowds are estimated...again you missed the definition of an estimate.

"claiming that the protestors have mostly been from out of state"
-
Who said mostly?

"If there were so many security concerns why is it that Walker supporters were escorted into the building...?"
-
During the lock down there were no people admitted exempt lawmakers. If you have an issue with that take it up with the capital police and security, it was their call.

RAF:
I forgot to touch on the Capitol access. If there were so many security concerns why is it that Walker supporters were escorted into the building through the tunnel connected to the Risser building?

RAF:

Ok, just so I have everything clear...You are ok with the state selling plants at any price, not necessarily to the highest bidder?

I understand that people can take their own recycling in, and if you read again I never said that they couldn't. Are also ok with continuing to pay the same amount in taxes and getting fewer services for them?

There was a time when the federal government did not have a negative viewpoint of smoking, that has since changed. The same could happen with phosphorus levels, I myself would prefer to live on the safer side.

If only simple accounting math is needed to figure out how helpful the “tools” will be why is it that he and his cabinet have not been able to do it correctly? If he is going to make claims that 329 out of 423 schools will not have to make cuts because of the “tools” that he is providing, it would make sense that they actually go into detail and account for the increasing expenses in other areas. You say that not wasting tax payer money is always in the best interest of the state; tax payers are not saving a penny with the nearly $1 billion cut so the money is being spent elsewhere, also are you suggesting that education funding is a waste?

Do you really believe that the $7.5 million figure wasn't a lie? You said it yourself, they didn't even do a real estimate on the “damage”, how is pulling a random number out and claiming that it is the real cost not be a lie? Other Walker/DOA mistruths: underestimating the number of protestors at rallies, claiming that the protestors have mostly been from out of state, claiming that everything that Walker discussed with “David Koch” is what he had been saying to the public, claiming that the budget repair bill could not be split up because collective bargaining is a fiscal issue, and the list goes on.....

"You still didn't address the no-bid contracts."
-
Re-read the comments. As long as those conditions are met I don't have any issues. If you want it put in a purchase plan yourself.

"Recycling...However, the funding for recycling is also being cut back which will in turn have an effect on if/when cities pick it up at the curb."
-
Not everyone has city trash pick-up. Pretending people can't be responsible on their own is a flaw. If they want to recycle they will.

"Phosphorus...wouldn't you rather have the state be proactive in mandating that phosphorus levels be lower than our neighboring states?"
-
No. If other states and the fed have determined current levels are safe spending additional money is wasteful.

"Education.....After reading quite a few articles I really feel that the jury is still out on how effective these "tools" are going to be."
-
It is called simple accounting math, not that hard to figure on your own if you try.

"From what I understand Walker did not account for increases in book costs, electricity, need for new desks/materials, etc."
-
This has never been the job of the state. This has always been at the discretion of local administrators to determine where their funding is spent.

"Plus, you didn't really address whether or not this is in the best interest of the state in the long run."
-
Not being wasteful with tax payer money is always in the best interest of the people of this state.

"Capitol Restrictions....I must have missed the part where the judge told the DOA to restrict access to the Capitol on the night when the Senate voted the bill through and again the next morning when the Assembly voted on it."
-
You also missed the point where the capital was to be closed at night, no exceptions, and the threats received during that day required a close/lock down of the capital while a security check was completed. Ignoring the facts of the events leads to much misconception.

"Repair Estimate....So am I understanding correctly that you are OK with the DOA blatantly lying? Because that is what they did and have done repeatedly."
-
An estimate is now considered a lie? Please list the other "lies" you claim have been made by the DOA.

RAF:
Power plants...
You still didn't address the no-bid contracts. If they are in need of repair wouldn't it be a better deal for the tax payers if the state sold the plants for $9 million less, rather than use state funds to repair them only to turn around and sell them?

Recycling...
You were right, they are backing off the mandates as well. I must have misread the first time going through some of the information. However, the funding for recycling is also being cut back which will in turn have an effect on if/when cities pick it up at the curb.

Phosphorus...
Studies have shown that higher levels of phosphorus in drinking water are not healthy. If this proves to be true wouldn't you rather have the state be proactive in mandating that phosphorus levels be lower than our neighboring states?

Education.....
After reading quite a few articles I really feel that the jury is still out on how effective these "tools" are going to be. From what I understand Walker did not account for increases in book costs, electricity, need for new desks/materials, etc. If this is true I am not sure how these "tools" are really going to help and many school districts in the state are saying the same thing. Plus, you didn't really address whether or not this is in the best interest of the state in the long run.

Capitol Restrictions....
I must have missed the part where the judge told the DOA to restrict access to the Capitol on the night when the Senate voted the bill through and again the next morning when the Assembly voted on it.

Repair Estimate....
So am I understanding correctly that you are OK with the DOA blatantly lying? Because that is what they did and have done repeatedly.

"Power plants...However, you didn't respond to the fact that $9 million is going to be spent to spruce them up for their future owners, or the fact that they will be sold on closed no-bid contracts. How do you feel about those issues?"
-
As I said selling them is in the best interest of the tax payer. There might be a reason the 9 million is required or not (not sure). Either way as long as all power is sold on the wisconsin grid grid first, still controlled by current state regulations, and the state properties these plants now service are provided a guaranteed rate I have no issue with it. Saving money is saving money that has always been my issue.

"Recycling...The mandates themselves are not being rolled back, just the money that helps to offset the cost of running a recycling program."
-
You need to re-read the proposed legislation. It removes the mandates and the funding for the mandate. Nothing keeps people or cities from having their own programs.

"Phosphorus levels...."
-
What is wrong with having our state standards the same as surrounding states?

"Education funding....Spin it how you like, but there is going to be nearly $1 billion less coming from the state government and estimates of $400K-$600K less if local governments are not able to increase taxes"
-
If districts and local governments use the tools, as provided with the current law (after posted), most districts will have more money available for education than last year.

"Capitol Restrictions...."
-
You conveniently left out how the judge ruled about closing hours and the building should be empty during those times. Since this was a problem the remainder was done for safety.

"Repair Estimate.....I know that they have since taken that statement back, I guess what I was saying is do you think it is right of Walker and the DOA to put a number like that out there when it is obviously a lie?
-
The estimate was made without being able to do a full inspection. With that a high number was a guess just like a low number would have been. Again as I said, the claim was not valid (based on an inspection), so what about it.

RAF:
Power plants...
I agree, it may be less expensive in the long run for the state to purchase power from a privately owned power plant. However, you didn't respond to the fact that $9 million is going to be spent to spruce them up for their future owners, or the fact that they will be sold on closed no-bid contracts. How do you feel about those issues?

Recycling...
The mandates themselves are not being rolled back, just the money that helps to offset the cost of running a recycling program. Citizens will still be required to recycle just as they have been. It is more likely that some cities will not be able to afford to run their own programs.

Phosphorus levels....
I'm trying to track down a link of a video for you. I was part of a study about six months ago that went over the long-term effects of high phosphorus levels. I'll let you know if/when I get ahold of it.

Education funding....
Spin it how you like, but there is going to be nearly $1 billion less coming from the state government and estimates of $400K-$600K less if local governments are not able to increase taxes to make up some of the difference. Another question you didn't respond to, is this going to be best for the state of Wisconsin in the long run?

Capitol Restrictions....
The judge actually ruled that the Capitol was supposed to have the same access as it did on January 28, meaning all entrances should be open to the public. So, no, these restrictions were not put in place after the court case. You can look the case up on the Wisconsin Circuit Court site.

Repair Estimate.....
I know that they have since taken that statement back, I guess what I was saying is do you think it is right of Walker and the DOA to put a number like that out there when it is obviously a lie? I feel that they came out with an outrageous number just to portray these "union thugs" in a negative light.

"Do you think it is in the best interest of the state to spend $9 million to fix up state power plants and then sell them on no bid contracts?"
-
Currently these plants don't meet existing EPA guidelines. It would be cheaper for the tax payer to purchase power than renovate and upgrade these. I have no issue with selling the plants as long as the power made from those plants remains on the wisconsin power grid for wisconsin users to purchase, remains regulated by current state guidance, and offers a set low rate back to current government properties where these plants now operate.

"Do you think he should roll back the recycling programs?"
-
Mandating anything like this was already wasteful. Nothing is keeping people or local towns and cites from setting their own rules.

"Or how about rolling back the requirements for phosphorus levels in drinking water?"
-
Placing our local governments standards to the same level of neighboring states is not a drastic problem.

"Is cutting nearly $1 billion from education going to help the state in the long run?"
-
Since the next budget will be over ~800 million short of the last budget (no more stimulus) spending less money is wise. Claiming 1 billion is removed from education is twisting the truth, try to be more honest.

"Will giving Walker the power to appoint 35 more tax payer funded positions to his staff make him a better governor?"
-
Expanding government is never a good thing.

"Is it right that he has limited access to the Capitol even after a judge has ruled that couldn't be done?"
-
You mean the limits imposed by a judge?

"Or how about the $7.5 million estimate to "repair" damage done by painter's tape?"
-
As far as I know that claim is not valid. What about it?

Gandalf the current tax scheme is broken precisely because of tax loop holes via credits and deductions. A simplistic approach would illuminate all deductions, thus providing a tax level that would be paid by all; not skipped over by tax lawyers and accountants.

RAF: I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a dig at me or not, but I can assure you that I haven't waffled in my beliefs either. I can respect you stand on individual and corporate taxes, but what about the other things that Walker has done or is in the process of doing? Do you think it is in the best interest of the state to spend $9 million to fix up state power plants and then sell them on no bid contracts? Do you think he should roll back the recycling programs? Or how about rolling back the requirements for phosphorus levels in drinking water? Is cutting nearly $1 billion from education going to help the state in the long run? Will giving Walker the power to appoint 35 more tax payer funded positions to his staff make him a better governor? Is it right that he has limited access to the Capitol even after a judge has ruled that couldn't be done? Or how about the $7.5 million estimate to "repair" damage done by painter's tape? These are just a few of the issues that I have with what has happened to our state since he has taken office.

Wando I have always been steadfast in my beliefs, unlike others. I think there should be a flat tax on all, corporate and individual, with no tax credits or tax incentives. I think policies based on one group vs another are always wrong; not holding first responders to the same rules was a mistake. I do understand his reason for not holding first responders to the same rules, but I don't like it. I think any law created to protect you from yourself is bad; like personal mj use.

Perhaps if you did open your eyes and ears you would see who the true lemmings really are...

RAF: To be honest with you I still believe that you are a lemming. You claim that you don't agree with all of the republican legislation, yet I haven't actually seen you come out against any of it. Here's your chance, tell me what it is that you disagree with.

Wando your original comment was "Your willingness to blindly follow". I asked you to clarify that. Based on your current explanation you have no founding for this comment. Either one of two things exist here, you don't recall things you have stated or you're a liar...which is it?

RAF: If you read my last post you'll see that I never said you agreed with everything they are doing. I said "if" you agree with everything, so I don't know what kind of retraction you're asking for. Again, I already knew that Risser and Cullen were writers of rule 93, back in 1983, so you're not telling me anything new.

Show where I said every part of all legislation passed by the republicans is in the best interest of the Wisconsin people, then you could try your ignorant comments again. Since you can't I am sure you will be forth coming in your retraction.

By the way, interesting revelations have shown the authors of the terrible senate and legislature rule 93 were democrats even co-sponsored by none other than jansevilles own fleebagger (cullen) 28 years ago. Interesting how the little things are always over looked...those evil republicans it is all their fault.

RAF: If you truly believe that every part of each piece of legislation that the Republicans have passed or are trying to pass are what is best for the sate of Wisconsin, you are blindly following. Remember, there is no negotiation with them. It is their way or the highway (or I90 East to Rockford). I can respect that you have a differing opinion than mine when it comes to some of the points, but I don't understand how you could really believe that everything that is going on is in the best interest of Wisconsin and it's residents.

I see you skipped trying to explain blindly follow again...

Perhaps you don't understand the conference committee process. Since the senate and legislature both had different versions of a bill before them (look it up), the conference committee was a legal requirement to change versions by removing fiscal measures.

RAF: Ahhh, semantics. Yes, we technically have no "leaders". I would argue however, that the seats that these people are elected to are positions in which they are supposed to be the leadership of our State.

I know about Senate Rule 93, and I think that it is still too hard to tell whether or not the rule applies in this situation. I'll give you that they were in special session, but the conference committee that was created was not doing what a conference committee is made to do. I see a lot of grey areas in all of this. Ultimately it will get to the State Supreme Court before a final ruling is made.

wando thanks for explaining what you think blindly follow means, now try to put that into your previous comment. Where am I blindly following anyone, not forgetting of course in this country we have no "leaders"; we have elected representatives.

If you took time to read the legislative rules for special sessions, the same ones that have been used for decades in this state, you would see they followed those rules. This blip only further shows the lengths groups will go to keep something they want. This is nothing compared to what the budget and true cutting of spending will do. How as a nation do we ever cut or even limit the expanding wasteful spending when people, who think they are entitled to something, cry and moan at every attempt.

dj: As much as I would like to believe that they did their due diligence to ensure that they were following the law, I just don't. The current administration has broken the law on more than one occasion, so it would not surprise me in the least if they did so again.

wando, don't you think that the open meetings rule was vetted prior to the vote to make sure they were following the rules as set forth in the Wisconsin constitution? This is just a display of some liberal bulling tactics followed by an activist judge.

RAF: To blindly follow means to follow a leader without uderstanding the consequences that may come with a decision; to continue on a path with complete disregard to what is at the other end. 
   
I am well aware that Sumi did not make a ruling on the case today and that the bill can be re-voted on making the court case somewhat of a moot point. Do you understand that in all likelihood the open meetings law was violated?  Or is the law something that republicans in general do not give a second thought to?
   
I'm good on pictures for now, thanks though : )

blindly follow?
-
A temporary injunction is not a ruling...before you start thinking people are blind perhaps you need a dose of reality. Even "if" the procedure is declared wrong, the bill will be re-voted on and passed in it's current form. The hi-jinks over the stall tactics won't survive.

Any other cute pictures, or was that the best you could find? If you need more video's of real goons, or pictures, just let me know.

RAF: Your willingness to blindly follow is also very endearing and entertaining. Gotta love it when the law is upheld.
http://m.host.madison.com/mobile/article...
Oh, how about this?
Real classy goons.
http://www.google.com/m/search?site=imag...

Wando, there are weird people in all walks of life. Some goons infringe on others rights by destroying legal petition papers for recall, while others think this is evened out by actions people take in another state. The false equivalence is very endearing, please continue it.

Seriously Poobah? Lets start with GM...
http://samuelolson.wordpress.com/2011/02...
..."Unions have mostly died out in the private sector, now sitting at a mere 6.9% of the workforce in the US. The majority of those remaining are primarily working for companies that you hear about in the news alongside words like “bailout,” “bankruptcy,” and “outsourcing.” Private businesses can’t compete when the labor they require has a set price. Product prices fluctuate due to the reality of supply and demand, along with other factors like the economic situation consumers may be in at the moment, with a tendency for either spending or saving. Hikes in labor costs, or even constant wages when demand for products is low, drive the final cost of goods or services beyond what consumers are willing to pay. A company in such a situation is often forced to move manufacturing out of the country, to a place the unions can’t follow, or suffer the consequences brought on by the more efficient, non unionized workforce, of their competitors. Have you ever wondered why your Chrysler is made in Canada, or why your neighbor’s Chevy comes from Mexico? Or further, why Toyota (the largest car manufacturer in the world), Volkswagen, and a number of other car manufacturers can make a profit building quality vehicles in America when our “American” companies can’t afford to, and instead rely on outsourcing? Unions."

Don't get me started.... I got a whole binder full!

RAF: The door swings both ways. There are extremists on either side.

wando what do people in texas, acting out in texas, have to do with people in wisconsin?

Real Classy Goons

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-573110

My bad,,,when I hear stimulus money all I think of is the money wall street goons got!!!

bluecollarjoe you need to do some research for yourself. The ~800 million was paid to wisconsin from the stimulus program provided by the current president, most of that went to pay for and protect public worker jobs; preventing layoffs.

How can people not understand the problem is big money control over our government!!!!!!

"Also the federal government supplied another ~800 million in stimulus funding.",,,blackmail money paid to wallstreet to not cripple the economy any more than they did!!!!

but they swallow the lies of the big money Republicans who believe the United States should be government by the rich and for the rich.

Real classy goons

http://www.waow.com/Global/story.asp?S=1...

bluecollarjoe interesting piece. Do you understand the very next year a 1.2 billion dollar tax hike was pushed through the legislature in less than 36 hours with no hearings. Also the federal government supplied another ~800 million in stimulus funding. That comes to an extra 2 billion dollars than the previous budget had and THEY STILL SPENT IT ALL.

It doesn't matter how much you raise taxes, until those in power stop spending it faster then they get it nothing will change. It all comes down to spending...

heidi:Joe, are you serious? This budget problem has been brewing for years. The following was taken from a November 21, 2008 article on channel3000.com.

"A report from the Department of Administration showed tax collections are expected to fall by 2.2 percent this year and 3.9 percent next year. That, combined with spending commitments already made, will put the state $5.4 billion in the red by the middle of 2011. That is more than 17 percent of the entire budget."

EXACTLY so why keep giving tax breaks????

Well said mudsill, You should see his incoherant rants on other blogs.I believe he is just baiting ( thus the ironic "Mouse" name) people to satisfy some primevil desire to feel superior,he's truly a legend in his own mind! Oh, and he hates Johnsonville brats too.

Mouse would much rather protest than look in the mirror.

gmaof3 said, "If we DO NOT pave the road for new industry in Wisconsin, all of our GM workers and others that had their lives destroyed by the pullout of UNION ran companies, families will suffer and lose what ever pittance they have left, that might resemble an income."
-
Last time I checked, the board of directors and officers of GM were still running GM. Can you please name one company that is "UNION ran?" Thank you.
-
Instead of telling me to "deal with it" could you please answer my question? And that was to name one company that is "UNION ran" to use your words.

I love the fact that everyone thinks this recession hasn't affected the public sector at all. I lost my job , but my husband has his " greedy ,overpaid, bloodsucking public job" We to are on a shoestring budget, no perks here--but hey--i should lose the house because you want me to. Great--that will help everyone. (he must of missed the get rich public job as he makes less the $39,000 after 18+ years) yup just rolling in it around here.

Honorsfirst, You, my friend, said it all!

First off, alwaysright, I absolutely do NOT think that GM employees have a bleak future or that they have all fallen into some black hole and disappeared. For those that did just as you say YOU did, pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and made life altering changes, they are taking responsibility for their OWN futures.
I TOTALLY get your point. Its been MY soapbox for months! MY irritation is the mentality of entitlement, simply because the proverbial rug has been ripped out from underneath someone.
My family has also had to endure hardships that forced us to "live within our means"... EVERYONE should know where that line is!
Billnewbie... we have pretty much always been on the same page.
zoom, poobah and kingrizzo, I don't know what else to say. We NEED these changes so our children have opportunities for employment without thugs telling us what to do. This is the "new deal"... so deal with it!

Hurry up and pass contracts. The unions helping the state again!

Well said.

Any school board or city/village council that would rush to agree to a contract in order to bypass the new law should be held accountable by their constituents for needlessly paying out more money than necessary to satisfy a contract. The folks in leadership positions that do not do everything they can for the taxpaying citizens by prudent spending, holding costs down, maximizing returns on the taxpayers dollar should not be in these positions.
The council members, administrators, managers, board members are elected or hired to represent us...not the employees working for them. If the employee is not satisfied with the pay/benefits they receive, go elsewhere and better your position in life. For our educated elite (as they like to consider themselves), looking for and securing other employment should be fairly easy and employers will most likely drop over themselves in an attempt to hire as many of you "educated" folks as possible.
People can not be so oblivious to the economic health of our state and country. We have to make radical changes in benefits and entitlement programs for the sake of our children and grandchildren, otherwise our hopes of them navigating through lifes challenges with any chance of success is pretty bleak.
These times can be known in the future as the time when we took positive, but painful action to correct the course this state was heading. Let's hope so...

A better lead in... School boards and local governments across Wisconsin are rushing to shoot themselves in the foot.

Billnewbie,
"Most of the folks here are retired, or unemployed, or minimally educated (thanks to our public school system) and therefore barely employable." Why don't you try something new and get out of the trailer park. While I agree Janesville has a significantly high number of "minimally educated" it is a bit of a stretch to push that on the teachers or the system. It is a community problem that does not support education, end of story. I am not even talking about not wanting to pay for YOUR public schools, but more about the mentallity. Read these blogs, and not only from this article but the thousands of articles from the last few years that have anything to do with education. This is, my bad, was a manufacturing town. That is now gone. What other options do the kids of this town have but to get a decent education and get the hell out of here. Keep cutting and you will see what happens. This will be a mini-detroit. I am sure you love your town and think it is great so why don't you try and do something to improve its reputation across the state of being the armpit. The only way you are going to do this is through education. Don't think it has a bad rep, ask anyone not from Janesville.

If you put the budget issue aside and think about all the support this union and the state workers are getting, I am sure that when it’s my union/employer and benefits that are being threatened that you folks will come out and rally for my benefits...hahaha yea-rite

These are so simple a public school student could understand. This way it involves no reading: Teachers Unions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...)
Public Sector Unions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4PwZCWU...)

Dr. Talk: I don't even know why I'm bothering to do this, but you said "The catch? No union, no tenure, and teachers are held accountable". If that wasn't you trying to relate it to the situation in Janesville, I guess I don't understand why you were even posting the link in the first place.

Oh yes, Janesville is just loaded with the children of rich kids feeding at the public trough. No wonder our city council rubber-stamped the unions' proposals so quickly. After all, only property owners pay property tax and every property owner is rich!

If I were to adopt such statements as those without question, I'd be a tax-to-the-max-ster too. There's just one problem though. The richest people living in Janesville seem disproportionally to be the ones who work for local governments in Janesville. Most of the folks here are retired, or unemployed, or minimally educated (thanks to our public school system) and therefore barely employable. "The rich" folks from Janesville, if there ever were any, left this tax and spend paradise years ago. Even many, maybe most, of the retired but still well paid government union workers from here moved to tax friendlier climes like Nevada, for instance. A lot of them are tax-to-the-max-sters too. You see their posts here on GazetteXtra rooting for more fuel for their gravy train. Tax increases don't bother them since they aren't here to help pay for them.

That "evil rich" canard works better on a national level. Here in lowly Janesville, there aren't enough rich folks to start a basketball team. You can tax them all to the full extent of their income and you won't solve any of the budget crunches facing the school board or the city council. You have to tax the folks who are barely getting by the way things are. It takes a committed union mentality to ignore the plight of folks like that while insisting that union members deserve much more and that they should refuse to compromise.

I have read and re-read Mouses posting, still don't understand his stance is on this issue. But, I wonder the same as some, why are they in such a hurry to push through contracts that only seem to keep us in a situation of promising contracts we can't afford? Is that respecting their employees? Is that what put us in this position in the first place (giving more then they have)? Are they lackeys of the unions? Do the unions care if teachers are laid off so the guy with tenure can get a raise? Are the unions/democrats saying we don't have an issue in balancing a budget? We have enough money to keep everyone happy? Even if we do have enough money now, how much longer can we take from this fund to support another?

"Dr. Talk: That story was about an experimental chart school so it's not really relevant to what is currently happening in our state."
--wando

I never said it was relevant to what is happening to our state; I just said it was an excellent story. So I guess your comment is irrelevant.

"The only thing interesting is there was no budget problem till Walker gave away $1.4 mil in cuts,,,,,,,still got the blinders on????"
--bluecollarjoe

Time to remove your blinders Joe:
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

Joe, are you serious? This budget problem has been brewing for years. The following was taken from a November 21, 2008 article on channel3000.com.

"A report from the Department of Administration showed tax collections are expected to fall by 2.2 percent this year and 3.9 percent next year. That, combined with spending commitments already made, will put the state $5.4 billion in the red by the middle of 2011. That is more than 17 percent of the entire budget."

The only thing interesting is there was no budget problem till Walker gave away $1.4 mil in cuts,,,,,,,still got the blinders on????

Isn't this interesting. Suddenly, unions want to get deals done now. But isn't there another side to the story? The governing bodies with which the unions have to make those deals need to be willing to hurry up too. But it's to the advantage of those governing bodies to delay until after the new law takes effect, isn't it? Yet those governing bodies (like the Janesville city council) seem to have the same urgency to finish deals that the unions have in spite of their fiduciary duty. How can that be? Aren't these governing bodies suppose to be positions of public trust? Shouldn't they have the interests of all their citizens at heart? Yet they seem committed to the same goals as the unions. Could it be that the unions have too much influence over the governing bodies with which they negotiate? Is that why the Governor pushed his bill to restrict bargaining rights for public sector unions? The fact that these contracts are being finalized quickly which entirely benefit the unions at the expense of the public which the governing bodies are suppose to represent is proof positive that the unions control both sides of these negotiations and are proof also of the validity and need of Governor Walker's new law.

retiredfed,good post,READ THIS,,,,and keep reading it till it sinks in,,,,,Based on the comments about many of the articles written during this budget repair bill debate, the GOP and their backers plan of divide and conquer the middle and working class seems to be working. By pitting non-union working and middle class people against union working and middle class people the GOP and their wealthy supports can succeed in the class warfare that Warren Buffet talked about in a New York times article as far back as 2006. He was quoted as saying "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." Keep fighting amongst yourselves and soon there will be no middle class in this country. Once the class war is completed by the wealthy and corporations there will be two classes. The rich class and the serving class. Which class will you fall into?,,,,,,to bad the low-income rebubs don't understand what is going on!!!!!!

Mouse: I might be part of the other 98 pieces. Whether you are "wealthy" or "middle class" or "poor" we are all going to have to pay "our share". Maybe, part of the other 98 pieces is a teacher, a policeman. Who defines who is wealthy? I'm just saying that your life isn't over because you have to live with less than before. You make "adjustments" as best you can.

Another point I'd like to make is, my life might be changing in order to keep the lifestyle the teachers are able to afford today. It looks like we all will have to contribute so the teachers can still be blessed with their benefits and cost of living raise. Is that fair? I don't think so, but looks like my life might be changing again, so someone else can keep their rights. And the teacher is expecting me to by pushing their right to protest/bargain so their life doesn't change. I'll do what I can, but we the people are not going to have a say..in how our lives will change to spend more out of our pockets to keep them the same.

gma3: I hope you don't really believe GM employees lives have been ruined...their lives maybe have "changed" but they are still "living" their lives. A person shouldn't rely on any occupation to define who they are. Lives change everyday, it is up to the GM employee and the teacher to change with it. It is a lesson I learned 12 years ago when Beloit Corp. closed. Lives change everyday for someone, including the 14 Democrats that left town to save the people, including Scott Walker who is trying to run a state in the black. Including the teachers, teachers aids, janitors, policemen etc. that may have to live their lives differently. Their life is NOT over. Surprise, my life changed in 1999 but I'm still here, and have found great happiness. Get the point I'm trying to make???

An even clearer explanation of teachers unions: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...)

Teachers unions explained: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...)

Mouse......I'm not going to pick on you. I make it a point not to make fun of the mentally challenged........You shouldn't have eaten all of that insulation growing up though:)

*charter school, not chart school

Dr. Talk: That story was about an experimental chart school so it's not really relevant to what is currently happening in our state.

factsplease.......The big difference is that Walker had the support(votes) to pass his legislation without compromising it. Obama did not have the votes and was forced to compromise his legislation because of this to pass it.

JasonTh-You completely missed my point...Republicans rail against "Obamacare" (which is essentially a Republican plan) yet when trying to come up with an alternative to Medicare, Ryan is proposing a plan nearly identical to it! (The "socialist" was in reference to how often Obama has been called that because of his Republican health care plan...a joke)
And for those who like to compare Walker with the healthcare plan being "forced down your throats", ever hear of the public option...which was taken out of the plan due to opposition. That is what Walker refused to do, give up ANYTHING in the spirit of compromise.

KingRizzo---You're absolutely right. Walker was inflexible--as he had to be to get the desired result.......

Zoom.....So when one spends more money than he/she makes and then switches from paying cash(because there is no cash left) and starts paying their bills a credit card. That person is not broke because they have access to the credit card?
Great idea! Just finance all of your debt by borrowing and creating more and more debt in the process..........

Excellent 60 Minutes story about teachers that make $125,000 per year. The catch? No union, no tenure, and teachers are held accountable.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7...

NCC1701 - WOW! - Excellent quotes - You have said it so well - thank you. We do have a voice in a democracy and I was happy to see our sec. of state not publishing the Walker bill until the last possible time. Good job Doug!

I feel sorry for the Milton teachers who stayed at school while others closed and their board refuses to even consider looking at extending the contract for a year. Every teacher in the mist of getting a new degree or spending money to educate themselves further stands to lose big time. Most of these unions are giving up the fiscal part of these contracts that Sir Walker wanted anyway.

"inflexible public union"

It was Walker and the republican legislators who were inflexible with this bill.

Zoom: GM went bankrupt because of a combination of inflexible/greedy unions AND a corporate management that had its head where the sun don't shine. Both those entities made a habit of only thinking for themselves for a long time and a poor economy finally caught up to them. This state does not sell a product that it can simply re-tool or raise prices on. It relies on taxpayer money to run. Do you honestly believe that an inflexible public union has zero responsibility for the states financial situation?

gmaof 3 wrote: "We're broke."

"So, let’s review.

Walker and other Republicans say the state is broke, so broke that there’s no money, and because there’s no money, they are unwilling to negotiate over the terms of the budget-repair bill.

Experts agree the state faces financial challenges in the form of deficits. But they also agree the state isn’t broke. Employees and bills are being paid. Services are continuing to be performed. Revenue continues to roll in. A variety of tools -- taxes, layoffs, spending cuts, debt shifting -- is available to make ends meet. Walker has promised not to increase taxes. That takes one tool off the table. Another tool was never there: declaring bankruptcy. We’re not broke or bankrupt in part because under federal law we can’t be.

We rate Walker’s statement False."
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

gmaof3 still thinks GM went bankrupt all because of the unions. Nevermind that they had too many brands competing with each other, too many dealers competing with each other, or that Ford had the same union contracts without a bailout, and that the unions have given concessions.

GM Janesville closed because they happened to make gas guzzling SUV's when fuel hit $5/gallon, and was the oldest plant in the system. The recession simply accelerated GM's race to the bottom.

It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood,
A beautiful day for a neighbor,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?

It's a neighborly day in this beautywood,
A neighborly day for a beauty,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?

I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?

Won't you please,
Won't you please,
Please won't you be my neighbor?

www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter states that Sen Sherrod Brown (Ohio) told the complete truth when he said Hitler didn't want UNIONS (Germany outlawed Unions in 1933), Stalin from Russia didn't want UNIONS, and Mubarak from Egypt didn't want UNIONS. I guess we now know where all these right wing poster's and Pundits on the Gagzette's blogs really want us. Isn't it remarkable who is calling who Union Goons and/or Slobs. I can't see where you can call these pro Walker Repukelican supporters good Americans but are in reality subversive anti-american lemmings of failed European Policies of the past WWll variety.

And how exactly is the new health care plan, socialist? Do you even know what the term means in a social, economic, or political reference?

Oh, wait... you got your education from Fox & Friends, didn't you?

No more freedom of speech! Get off my lawn!

mls, shut down your computer and go visit the capitol building. You'll see the millions of dollars in damage yourself! And while you're looking for the damage, maybe you can point out the palm trees on State Street.

"Obviously, those demonstrators had only their own self-interest at heart."

Is that why we saw all those off-duty police & firefighters (who are not effected by the bill), students, farmers, and private union employees there too? You know...looking out for themselves?

It really irritates me that those low-lifes who did all that demonstrating in Madison have done all that damage to the inside of our capitol building, as well has the lawn. The lawn will have to have a complete landscaping. This is going to cost all of us, even those of us who are completely behind what Governor Walker is trying to do.

Obviously, those demonstrators had only their own self-interest at heart. I don't believe for one minute they were in any way trying to protect students from K through 12.

In addition, the union bosses who were organizing these demonstrations were only doing it because they did not want to lose union dues.

916...Well the ones listed in paper a few weeks back have been here for years.I will go back and read the article to be fair,but sure it said nothing about corp.not here for 2 yrs.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/119xx/doc1196...

Paul Ryan now wants to turn Medicare into a system suspiciously (almost exactly) like "Obamacare" LOL! Subsidize people so they can buy insurance from exchanges.... But I'm sure it will sound better coming from him than from Obama! LOL! Socialist!

gmaof3 said, "If we DO NOT pave the road for new industry in Wisconsin, all of our GM workers and others that had their lives destroyed by the pullout of UNION ran companies, families will suffer and lose what ever pittance they have left, that might resemble an income."
-
Last time I checked, the board of directors and officers of GM were still running GM. Can you please name one company that is "UNION ran?" Thank you.

123.....I am fairly sure that this tax break that we are talking about is for companies that have not operated in Wisconsin for 2 or more years.......

So could any of you quit lambasting each other with childish digs and get to the point? The State is broke... union dues cost money for some fake network of Hoffa thugs to give SOME state employees bennies which every other "employee" in this state pays for. Bargaining rights? Why do you think you are any more "entitled" than the rest of us? College educated? Fine.. tell that to the line workers at a manufacturing facility who had their plant shut down... I will not pay for your perks anymore. I PUT Walker in the house as did the majority of the voters of this State.

Mouse....A little hint for the little guy--When you attempt to label someone as being "slow", it makes a more convincing argument if proper grammar is used while doing it.......It's "you're" not "your".......

Clarity...lol So you think corp.that is already in Wisconsin,can hire people to add $200,000 in payroll and receive the tax break?Again I ask you how is that going to help Wisconsin?They may not be minimum wage jobs,but it won't take much more to meet the requirements.After 2 years do you really think employers will keep workers with no tax breaks ? What about the 3 local business that will be hiring soon? One starts at $13.00/hr...well there's 6 new hires and another company off the tax bill.Sure is going to help Janesville,don't you think?

Mouse.......Calm down little guy.....When did I ever say that Koch needed financial help from the taxpayers? Show me the specific quote please......

Clarity....Please don't mind mouse.......His parents allowed him to eat insulation when he was a child, the formaldehyde in the insulation rotted a good portion of his brain, and now he has this issue(along with many others) with assigning blame to the Koch brothers:) It all came full circle for the poor little guy........

Clarity, I can tell you one thing I haven't done. I haven't ruined the reputation of the whole state of Wisconsin like our wonderful dim-witted governor. Walker will accomplish something, he will be the first Wisconsin governor recalled. Maybe he can get a show on Fox News with Sarah Palin. She's had such a long and accomplished political career.

123......What does Walker have to lose by not offering than incentive? Without it, some companies would not relocate here regardless, so any increase to the tax base is better than no increase......no? You are the only one saying they will be minimum wage jobs as well. You're neglecting to include operating costs as well. That company will probably have to lease a building, hire local contractors to retrofit and maintain it, purchase supplies for day to day operations from local vendors. There are the state and local taxes that would be generated by the employees as well--income/property/sales.......While I realize that your jaded opinion of Walker will not allow you to show support for anything he introduces, I find a program like this something that has very few negatives......

clairty...Don't assume you know what I do for a living.A small business owner like yourself needs to be a corporation to get the tax break.If your business can support $200,000 in wages for new employees...More power to you !!My guess would be that there may be a few that take advanced of this tax break,but not enough to cover the $100 million he is offering.

Walker had to drop out of Marquette because he failed his State Government classes. It really shows with how he is running the state. Maybe the Fitzgerald brothers failed the same classes as well.

Hey Realist, my wife is one of those lazy thugs that went to school for six years to get her masters in education so she can teach your kids. I guess the planning and grading that she does till 7pm each night of the week and the extra work on the weekends she does justifies her being called a thug too. Teachers are salaried, which means she doesn't get any overtime for the 50+ hours she puts into teaching each week. She would be more than happy to teach year around, but that would mean paying more in taxes so we could have year-round school. God knows people hate paying higher taxes, especially the upper-class.

"The unions asked to give up the money concessions in exchange for collective bargaining."
-
You do understand the unions are not part of the senate or legislature in this state don't you? The fleebaggers were offered a better deal but turned it down...wonder who told them to say no?

"Our state is broke... "

Still with that lie? If the state is broke it can't afford to spend the hundreds of millions of dollars on roads that Walker is proposing.

"We want to negotiate...well....not so much."

What is left to negotiate? The unions asked to give up the money concessions in exchange for collective bargaining. The republican trinity said no, and now you're blaming unions for what, exactly? Not following through with a good deal that Walker poopoo'd anyway?

If we DO NOT pave the road for new industry in Wisconsin, all of our GM workers and others that had their lives destroyed by the pullout of UNION ran companies, families will suffer and lose what ever pittance they have left, that might resemble an income. Seriously... sorry for ya... but your unions can not get you back to "that place". The rest of the state can NOT afford you! I willingly pay your wages as you are a valued part of society and your contribution to our children's education is irreplaceable. Thank you for choosing education.
Our state is broke... THIS governor is fulfilling his campaign promises. We simply can NOT afford "union ran" entities.
Pay for your OWN health care and retirement programs. All of we taxpayers do! College educated or not, take responsibility for your OWN bennies...

The fact that all these school boards are rushing to make contracts with their teachers before the new law takes effect just shows their stupidity. Now they will be locked into deals they will not be able to afford, and then blame Walker for their own stupidity and the greed of the teachers and unions.

These districts will be forced to do more layoffs, and they had better realize it is their fault and not Governor Walker's.

Liverpool,
I can answer your question of when will these people in this town be happy. The answer is never. Even if the teachers were making the same as they were it would be too much because they have three months off a year. And they are lazy thugs.

clairty...To give corporations 2 years of no taxes for 13 jobs ?? How is that going to help ? Really? It will take a LOT of corporations to add 250,000 as he promised.How can someone support a family on a minimum wage job? Do you really think they will be lined up to open for business in Wisconsin ?? lol

It appears most of these school districts that are completing the contracts with the teachers are having the teachers pay the 5.8% toward their retirement, make more contributions to their health care and are freezing the teachers salaries, but some people are not happy yet. boss walker would like to see the teachers making minimum wage. Just because walker thinks it is a good idea doesnt mean it is a good idea? At what point are people going to be happy. How much do teachers have to give up? At what point do good young people, interested in teaching, decide that teaching is not a good proffession to get into and the compensation does not justify the expense for their education? what will happen to free, quality education in this State?

It's hilarious how one guy (Gov. Walker) can make a so many people scramble around!!!!

No worries mates: Local districts will lock in deals in the next 10 days ... then end up having to lay off teachers .... then blame it on Walker because he said there would not be layoffs necessary if his plan was implemented. I can see the headlines now .... Skirt around the bill and then blame Walker and raise property taxes and lay off employees.

Walker signed a law Jan.31 that said that companies that relocate to Wisconsin will not have to pay corporate taxes for two years.
The law stipulates that the company must move at least 51% of the workers on its payroll or at least those who account for $200,000 in wages.
Sweet deal for the corporations......
Lets do a little math !
Average full time worker works 2080 a year.
Lets say the worker makes $7.25/hr.
2080x$7.25=$15,080.year
That means corporation needs to hire......13 new employees to meet the requirements of not paying taxes for two years.
Sweet deal in my book !!! Some will say 13 jobs are better than none.But with Walker saying he will bring 250,000 jobs to Wisconsin....Yikes how many corporations will that take ?? With that also time will tell when he announces next week who is willing to relocate back in Wisconsin.
I'm glad I don't drink kool-aid !!

A MoveOn official adds that the organization has already raised over $800,000 to support the recall drives against GOP senators.

George Soros, making money the old way!

tj57 typed..... Watch and see how many of these districts and communities have to go to referendum and beg for more money to meet these ridiculous contracts. When their respective communities say NO, then where will they be? Take Janesville. The referendum would be to essentially fund the raise for the teachers. How do you think the tax payers will respond to that?

I Totally agree with you on this one tj57

Watch and see how many of these districts and communities have to go to referendum and beg for more money to meet these ridiculous contracts. When their respective communities say NO, then where will they be? Take Janesville. The referendum would be to essentially fund the raise for the teachers. How do you think the tax payers will respond to that?

The Janesville teachers are more fortunate then many. They are locked in until 2013. However this lock in is creating mass lay offs because the unions again got gready and didn't look out after there members. For a few weeks the union will look good until the pink slips begane to appear.

I don't want Spoden or Rashkin representing me at any union negotiations. This is the problem with collective bargaining.

poorrichard: If the board that approves the contracts is made of elected officials, how can you blame the unions when the contract is approved?

Or is it possilbe that these school boards are lackeys of the local unions? Wonder how many teachers will be laid off in these districts but then why should the union care? They can just raise the dues to cover their lose.

and that we're not broke???!!!!

grandys: You're funny. Maybe the municipalities and school districts are rushing to agree on contracts because they actually respect their employees and don't believe that eliminating collective bargaining is right. Just a thought.