Wonder why only half the "allegation" was posted?

donnaw,
I wasn't aware that Amos & Andy had their own "dialect". In what region of the world is the Amos & Andy "dialect" spoken?

Did you like Stewarts retort on Cain's candidacy with Stewart using an Amos & Andy dialect? Could you imagine the media outcry if a conservative had done that?

Here's Jon Stewart just absolutely destroying Fox News, but, not to worry, he does give them their props for winning Politifact's Lie of the Year award the last two years running. Credit is given where credit is due.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-ju...

Anyone else find it interesting that even the most informative shows on Fox News (O'Reilly/Hannity) have audiences that are only "occasionally outpacing" the audience of a parody of a news show on a network called Comedy Central? If that doesn't strike you as a bit curious, well, you must watch a lot of Fox News.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

Caught a little bit of Keith Oberman yesterday interviewing a Hollywood type smashing conservatives. It was inane and stupid. You can lose half your brain cells watching that
sluggo! Here's another great example of media bias.
www.iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=80534

Thank god for Rachel Maddow on mistakenNBC without her I would never understand real politics. She is as far left ans Glenn Beck is far right. These are not news shows but opinion shows sheepole

fear a great read on the innocent fannie and freddie and the housing crash you still think was all done by wallstreet. http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis...

chris mathews of msnbc newest tag line " I hate that so-called evenhanded so-called objective journalism. You know, you know, you can’t say something isn’t true if it’s true in the interest of evenhandedness."

As has already been established, more misinformation and out & out lies come from Fox News than any other news source (that would include MSNBC & CNN for you Fox News viewers that have been led to believe by Fox News that they are the only news source in existence)

" You cannot, howeverget any kind of straight truth from them, its all slanted. Their news people do the same things that their talk hosts do. You dont have to like the truth, but it is true."
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The same is true for MSNBC and much of CNN, so your point is what?

yours...see easy to do

"I have re read walker fans post like six times, and I think that he spelled maybe three words correctly. Now that I look closer, he/she dint even spell Walker correctly! Still laughing!"
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If you are going to criticize spelling mistakes made by others you have more credibility if yours remarks are spelled correctly while doing it.

Unless you think "dint" was used properly in your case.

walkerfan: Are you trying to be funny?

So, I just got back from Fox News HQ and wouldn't you know it, they've got their 2009 AND 2010 Lie of the Year awards from Politifact on full display. Bright, shining and very impressive. Who said that made up death panels and a fake government takeover of health care couldn't get you ahead in the media?

I have re read walker fans post like six times, and I think that he spelled maybe three words correctly. Now that I look closer, he/she dint even spell Walker correctly! Still laughing!

Walkerfan, is that real post? Could that possibly be "guvner" himself? I dont like getting after folks for spelling , but when you spell MONEY wrong, how do I stop laughing? "take the muney and run"-steve miller.
Still laughing at Walkerfan. Is that the type of voter he counts on? The ones that are as educated as he is? I am guessing Walkerfan dropped out of HS, anyone?
As usual grandys has NOTHING to offer.
Vato, I am more comfortable with SS than I am with anything invested on Wall Street.Everything investment wise is rigged, it just is. I would rather a low interest SS sytem than some kind of "diversified" mutual fund that would be suceptable to losses in the order of 70-90% in a weeks time. I am fine with the free-market with real RULES and restrictions. never happen in this plutocracy.
I love being called a socialist BTW, makes me chuckle!!:) Thats what you do when you have no decent points , or you are scared of your ideas being subject to ridicule.

Thank you guvanr waker. four pasing this bugit. It will help us all two live a betr live an will make the libs give back all are muney so they cant have it know mor. becase they dont desrvre to have non of it becase it is ars not theres. They just took it an took it an now you are maken them two give it all back to us. so thank you for beeng a good man. An a good guvanr.

Why would I want to have social security invested the same as a 401K? I lost enough money in 2008. I certainly wouldn't want to lose more by having social security privatized. Ryan doesn't have a clue. His pockets are bulging and he wants them to get bigger. Please don't tout Paul Ryan's plan to me. I don't want to see people in our nation hurt anymore than they already have been.

I've seen them all and other then Glenn Beck, I like Fox News. It's fun to flip the nightly news and see how one side points out flaws with the right and the other side just give the news.

I admit freely that I tune into Fox entertainment(news) frequently. Its always good for a laugh. You cannot, howeverget any kind of straight truth from them, its all slanted. Their news people do the same things that their talk hosts do. You dont have to like the truth, but it is true.
RAF-Admittedly that was for you!:) I just did that because you like to link politifact on occasion. If you are not for the destruction of the social safety net , you certainly seem to be all about privatizing all of it. You may think that the government(your former employer) cant do anything right, and in a sense you are correct. I would also argue that the private sector is not any better in MANY respects. The financial meltdown of 2008 showed me all I need to know about that. Paul Ryan wants Social Security to be invested in the private market like a 401k. Ask the millions of middle aged Americans how they feel about that after losing TRILLIONS of dollars in 2007-2008 that investment bankers ran away with. I would like to remind you that trillions of dollars dont just disappear into thin air, somebody made off (Madof) with that pile of money, then just went and scared all of our bought off politicians into giving them more, without fixing the system. Hard to do when the former CEO of Goldmann Sachs was hired as the treasury sec by GWB!

I watch any other news station BUT Fox news. I do not like the way Fox news distorts information and plain lies. Fox news is bought and paid for by the right. Fox news only reports "what it is told to report."

grandys,
In case you're not aware, it is possible to find out about the misinformation spewing out of Fox News without actually watching the network. There are other news sources keeping tabs on the "journalism" happening at Fox News.

Concerned, fox news said today was Wednesday...must be another lie.

News died when they came out of the closet in 2008 with tingles and enchantments.

Why do so many people watch Fox News compared to CNN or MSNBC? Maybe the country is feeling stronger toward news the informs them the way they should.

Our watchdog, our look out, our info machine.
Fox still brings that.

RE: Fox Vs Stewart. The score on Politifact says that Fox has lied or put forth false statements 50 times, Stewart...once, for which he apologized for. Let's count how many times Fox retracted or apologized for making false and erroneous statement....oh, that would none. Comparing a half hour comedy/news show to an entire network with 24/7 coverage and talking head commentary is absurd anyway. Wallace is a fine anchor, but he was out of his depth.

CP- try watching #1 Fox news - you get the information the other channels will not report because they would rather fluff pillows.
Fox Business is even better!

You and the other liberals on this site equals all of MSNBC's audience.

People from the left and the right alike know that you do not get true information from Fox news.

Retired,
I am very much aware of that fact because I do not use Fox News as a source of information. Therefore, I am more informed than a large majority of those that do.

walter that means so much coming from you.

Fox News, in general, has the most misinformed audience of any television news source.

"I like politifact too/ Didnt post the links because I knew you wouldnt folow any of them. You say Outfoxed is "far-left" that is a predictable response from a partisan hack. A movie made up of interviews of former employees! People that saw the process. Would seem to be a great reference point to me."
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Fear I am making an assumption you posted all these (politfact remarks) for my benefit or comment. Did you want me to proclaim anyone on fox or any other 24 hour news program has never said anything that is wrong? I never claimed outfoxed was "far-left", I did say it was produced by the ultra left brave new films group; tiny distinction that had to be corrected. You claim to be non-partisan but always decry fox, why is that? Are your silent remarks about mistakes made by other news organizations a silent belief they never make mistakes? Of course that last comment is absurd but no different than you thinking I will gladly support fox for any and all things they say particularly their many blow hard commentators; one of the main reason I decided to stop watching most broadcast or cable news until I find a story I want to hear more about. Then again, you can cling to great accomplishments of the brave new films group, I don't care to watch them.

I have never felt the "need" to tell other vets what to do, letting them choose and pick what they want for their own life is something I have always advocated. You are incorrect in the advocating (removal) for a social safety net, I have never said a Medicaid (a safety net) should go away, I have never stated unemployment (a safety net) should go away, and I have never advocated SSI (a safety net) should go away. You fail to grasp the truth while tossing words don’t you? I have staunchly been against an increasing large government program because they only increase in size and have never performed to 100% of what they claim to do when created. As far as my finances I have always planned my life around the idea my pension, future social security, and future medicare will not be there nor last forever for me. Unlike you, I am advocating to save the systems through responsible spending and planning, not complete take over. It is a shame you have an inability to grasp the words provided without the typical left wing class warfare claims of you have yours so you don’t care comments, but hey whatever makes you sleep at night...right?

"Why does that ENTITLE you to government sponsored care and not an 85 year old person with dimensia?"
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You mean an 85 year old that has medicare has no care for dementia? But isn't that the great single payer system you want for all?

Should the rest of the vets make the same choice you have RAF? and give up their health care from the va? Do they deserve it? Why did you choose not use the VA?
Many people give up 20+ years at jobs and recieve zero pension, what about them? You HAVE ABSOLUTELY advocated against a social safety net, tell me why you say you dont. I see a person that wants to privatize everything except your pension I would guess. If your pension was privatized and lost in the free-marjket, or a large chunk was lost you would feel differently.
See you are of the screw everyone else with no solutions attitude. All it seems you can do is tell everyone how the system is broken, but offer no solutions to fix anything. All I see from you is cut this, chop that. As long as those pension checks keep rollin in, keep standing on that soap box.
I say again, I think you deserve that pension. AND any and all health care you get from the VA or otherwise. I just find you to be a hypocrite, but hey whatever helps you sleep at night.

Heres some goodies from your right wing bull horn- FOX! A little politifact checking, Ready? Remember thes were all statements made on FOX (fair and balanced?)
Less than 10% of Obamas cabinet appointees have worked in the private sector. FALSE!
White house political directoronce seved as right-hand man to Acorn chief, FALSE!
Texas BOE may eliminate references to x-mas and constitution from textbooks. False!
Health care reform is a govt takeover of health care. False. (2010) LIE OF THE YEAR!!
The Muslim brotherhood haqs openly stated they want to declare war on Israel. False.
American troops have never been under the control of another nation. False.
Gov. Rick Scotts approval ratings are up. False.
Massachusetts health care law wildly unpopular among state residents. False.
there has been more debt accumulated unsdr Obama than all other presidents combined. FALSE
Health care bill includes "death panels". False (2009) lie of the year!
cash for clunkerswill give government complete access to your home PC. False.
Halting Gulf drilling costs 8 billion dollars a day. PANTS ON FIRE!
Democrats plan largest tax increase in history. False
Eric Holder was involved in the dismissal of criminal charges against Black Panthers. False
Obama voted "present" in the US senate quite often. False.
John Holdren proposed forced abortions and steruilants in drinking water. PANTS ON FIRE!
Labor union president Andyt Stern is the most frequent visitor at the white house. FALSE!
America is the only country with automatic citizenship upon birth, false.
ORielly never called George Tillr a baby killer , only reporting what others called him. False
Only Fox news picked up that Anita Dunn said Mao was one of herr fav philosophers. False.
Nobody at Fox new said your going to jail if you dont buy insurance. PANTS ON FIRE!!

I like politifact too/ Didnt post the links because I knew you wouldnt folow any of them. You say Outfoxed is "far-left" that is a predictable response from a partisan hack. A movie made up of interviews of former employees! People that saw the process. Would seem to be a great reference point to me.

"your arguments are always that nobody else should get what you have?"
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Never once have I stated others should not receive what I have; many choose to give up 20+ years of their life moving all over the globe while spending months and years away from their families for this great prize.

"You get a taxpayer funded pension and taxpayer funded health care"
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I do receive a pension and have chosen not to use the VA while I purchase private healthcare through my employer.

"and you continuously advocate that the rest of the country doesnt deserve it because businesses need more profits, am I getting this wrong?"
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Completely.

I spell wrong all the time. NP. Tell me what far left agenda? That all Americans get health care, that doesnt cause personal bankruptcy? That each American gets an EQUAL shot at an education? Far left is just another label, and a silly one at that. Why cant every American enjoy the same care you do as a servicemen? Are you aware that most every other nation in the world provides BETTER care at half the cost? Not just rhetoric, statistical FACT. Thats gimmie?
What else gimmie and education? What should we do joker? Leave out all those scum sucking poor people when it comes to educating future generations? Should we just conyinue to cut funding for education, while INCREASING funding for the military? Who has their hands out? Defense contractors? Naw , cause that would be far left!
Considering that most of my life I voted for Republicans and am a pro life person, I find it amazing that someone could label me , because I choose NOT to Pick sides. I am a NON partisan. NOT in the middle, I choose my opinions based on WHAT I BELIEVE is right and wrong, okay? You and your air force pal RAF can downplay the "far left" as you put it, I will just continue to make choices on issues based on what is CORRECT and MORAL, not greedy and IMMORAL. You a christian too? Most of you right wingers are, ask yourself what would Jesus do, and if you are honest with yourself, you will find yourself all over the political spectrum, instead of being a right wing Parrot.

I'm sorry left wing agenda. I wouldn't want you after me for bad spelling.

excuse me fear but I am a vet and I fought for this country. you claim to be the middle but every one of your blogs are nothing but gimme gimme gimme. You are about as far left as Joe Biden. you can bring up every liberal link you want but there are still real patriots out here and we don't get paid to be on here 24 hours a day to bring up the left wing adgenda. RAF right on.

Youu can copy and paste my quotes and twist em however you like. To me(MY OPINION, the one thing I am entitled to) you are a hypocrite of the highest order. I see your game RAF you can have the last word, I really dont care.
Funny thing is before you got under my skin, you still FAILED to answer ANY question with a real original opinion about how to fix our "failing" educational system. Again, typical dodge when you are out of links from free-market think tanks.

So lets see you are a former government employee and retired. Now you collect a pension and get health care at the expense of the taxpayer, and your arguments are always that nobody else should get what you have? Very nice. You get a taxpayer funded pension and taxpayer funded health care, and you continuously advocate that the rest of the country doesnt deserve it because businesses need more profits, am I getting this wrong? Or do you send back your pension checks. Will you send back your SS checks as well? Do you refuse your health care payments as well? Because all I see RAF is someone who admittedly hates government and just about everything to do with it, after working for that very entity, retiring and reaping all the benefits. How can you hate your former employer so much? How can you continue to accept all of your taxpayer funded benefits? Your time of work is over right? You no longer work for the government , so why dont you just "pull up your boot straps" and go find all of the "choices" that you advocate that we all should make in the free-market? You are such a true believer in it. Why do you think you are entitled to benefits? Isnt that a part of the "entitlement society" that you preach against, over and over again?
Now back to reality, I actually believe that after serving in the armed forces you ARE entitled to those benefits. I am also glad you recieve them. But what makes you more special than a teacher? Or any other American living in this country? We all make sacrifices, you chose yours, I choose mine and we make them. Why does that ENTITLE you to government sponsored care and not an 85 year old person with dimensia? Why is a poor African-american or a hispanic child not entitled to a shot at a good education? Why must people like you shout down on them while collecting your benefits from the same source that you complain about? WHY?

I couldn't put it any better myself; "When you cant argue points you call people names, its all you have. I understand though Thats what I would do if I were you too."

"then say youre not a partisan."
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Slow down. I never claimed not to be a partisan. I have claimed I am not a republican party member or a tea party member. I have a very partisan position leaning very much toward conservatism and libertarian; not completely either one. I have never hidden from this nor claimed to be anything other than that

My "so called opinions", I certainly can say the same about yours RAF. Of course you see yourself as some kind of fact machine, posting links to mostly RIGHT wing websites, then say youre not a partisan.
Looks like I hit a nerve, GOOD! Getting tired of dull comparisons and silly arguments. I have tried to keep it respectful, but your sheer arrogance is getting under my skin. You never concede points even when you have been proven wrong over and over.
You seem to me like some kid that got picked on in school and hate the world because of it. Sorry if that was the case RAF, but it doesnt make you the smartest person in the world. I have no problems conceding points when I am wrong, because, get ready , I DONT KNOW EVERYTHING!!! And I am fine with it! You have little mans syndrome bud maybe you should try some social activity , it would do you some good!
Yeah Vato- fear me, sure! All your party does is scare the crap out of everyone and gets them to vote for them. Look what happened in the health care debate. Lies, fear , misinformation, after YOUR party spent 8 years destroying the nation and the last 2 blaming democrats for it! My screen name is what it is, because I like to make fun of partisans, mostly republitards. If you actually knew me, you would find I am much more conservative than you think. Unfortunately this new brand of neo-conservatism doesnt code well for the future of the nation. Cool that you buy it, I just cant. Later partisans!!! time for me to disconnect for awhile, people like RAF make my head explode.

Really pledging allegiance to a flag? linking your allegiance to religion? And I am the silly one? Wake up gringos!Why on Earth should I "pledge my allegiance" to a flag? It doesnt mean I dont respect sacrifices vets have made for me and my family, I just think that its an overblown notion. If you want to take it seriously, go ahead, not me, I have more important things going on.When this country starts prioritizing things (education,healthcare) then I will pledge my allegiance. While the USA is forcing its military in soverign nations overseas, killing millions of people from other countries, MY WIFE MY KIDS MY LIFE! That is where my allegances lie. Unfortunately tolerance of others opinions of the direction of this nation is NOT any of your strong suits.
The fact that you blind nationalists think that is somehow important to society is laughable, just like many of your posts.
No Joker, youre just dumb. You werent listening, you were reading (assuming you can read), this is a blog not a radio station.
RAF- Since youre a VET I understand your allegance, but why is the pledge important at all? WHY? I also would like to ask , what about the people that dont believe in a god? Should they be left out of your Pledge? Should they all just get out of the country, because they dont share your belief? Man I thought this was America! I know it used to be, now its cult/mob mentality rule. Citizens (corporations) united made sure of that, as now the millions of sheep will be told whom to vote for by the unlimited TV and radio ads run by them. Once they succed in destroying unions, this will be a one party nation, and a much poorer one.
When you cant argue points you call people names, its all you have. I understand though Thats what I would do if I were you too.

"The "pledge" is a silly thing anyways."
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This explains much about your so called opinions...

I fear I am dummer for listening to his rhetoric

Fear...this time of day I would rather have a glass of wine!

Plus steriods arent good for the elderly I suggest getting off them!:)
Any solutions to education other than rhetoric folks? Or are you just a bunch of parrots? Donna want a cracker?

If you could beat me in arm wrestling I would send back my p90x. Remember you called me bitter, and I just called you bitter and old. You are old, bitter is just what you called me. Sticks and stones. Time for me to make a run to the border.

vato...good link. Remember what Pelosi said, we have to pass the bill so we can see what's in it. Now we know hat's in it. It scares the h.ll out of me.
Fear... Calling people names is not nice. Too bad your elders didn't teach you that. I probably am older than you but I bet I could beat you in arm wrestling, you old prune face. There, now we're even.

Donna , why is it if I am aware of this nations misgivings and want it to be the way it should, that I am the bitter one? Why should I leave? Is that your answer to folks you disagree with? Love it or get out?
This is the problem with some neo-cons (Donna) the "we must have orda" argument. You dont like reality , then give me an answer of how to solve the problem. You and others like you seem to be fine with calling everything broken and want to just take funding away. Inner city families should suffer because you are the bitter old woman that doesnt have any kids left? The answer to the education issue is..... Pay teachers less and take away funding. You have no solution , if you did you might say something other than I am bitter and need to emigrate to another country. Pathetic!
Vato- again, while I think your politics are nutty. Your sense of humor is great. However I am younger than that!:)

donnaw: Do you blame fear for being bitter?

How right you are walterreuther and fear. Congratulations to both of you.

fear&rhetoric,
You are as American as they come. You don't sound as though you'd be happier somewhere else. Your words convey a concern for the country that you love's downard spiral that right wingers put us on and, given their way, would have us stay on so long as the rich kept getting their's. Keep fighting the good fight and giving people the truth whether they want it or not.

Fear... If you dislike this country so much you should think about living somewhere else. You sound very bitter.

Politifact's whole premise is pretty much bunk as Stewart's comment was a response to a question not a prepared statement. His response was structured around the way in which Wallace phrased the question. Stewart answered honestly and the studies generally back up his honest answer. Of regular media viewers, Fox News viewers are generally the most misinformed. The only way to make them appear average was to bring down the national average by including the people that did not view any news media and had little political knowledge. I wonder if the more informed audience of the O'Reilly Factor or Hannity attempts to discourage others from watching the other misleading programming on Fox News. If they're responsible, that's exactly what they do.

I harp on Fox RAF because MOST that hold right wing political beliefs repeat constantly repeat the rhetoric. Plus the constant misinformation that flows from the OPINION shows.
I agree that outfoxed is partisan, Never said it wasnt, still a great example of what goes on over there when deciding what "news" stories to run. All media has bias, its nature.
I would also say the Model in the inner city is not a success. However the problems dont generally lie inside the schools themselves, they lie with the families. You are correct that we cannot change these folks, but we certainly could offer the kids MORE support and programs to make the schools a better place for them to want to be. IMO more funding for the schools in the inner cities that drag the balance sheet down, less special programs to the schools that do not need them as much. Maybe a fair assessment of schools that need more funding/support, and maybe larger class sizes and less special programs for those that are deemed to get the family suppport and have better success because in general families are more involved.
I still dont hear any solutions other than , "dont throw more money at something that doesnt work", nice rhetoric, but then what is your solution? That line is NOT a solution to the problem, its a cop out.

Donna- Really? You care about the under God part of the pledge? What about those that arent believers? Are they not Americans? What about those of us that dont pledge allegance to a flag that represents a nation that is the global bully? Should we not be allowed an opinion?
The "pledge" is a silly thing anyways. I pledge allegance to my WIFE, my KIDS, my profession, thats all. Not some idea of a nation that sends our men/women to die so contractors and corporations can rebuild nations, and participate in the wholesale destruction of natural resources for our own benefit.

If you want an excellent book suggestion from a man that knows this stuff because he worked for 30 years in this industry , all over the world, I would suggest, " Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. One of the better books I have ever read.

So fear the inner city school model is a success? I never stated cutting funding was an answer, I do think tossing more money on a system that has proven to be ineffective has never been a good answer. I have never declared “the teachers” are the issue either. If living in the inner city had taught you anything you would know that if people and families and a belief their children would do well in the schools provided more support would be provided by more families. As in cases all over America there are crappy adults that really have no business being parents, yet we have no control over that. There are many examples around the country were a failed inner city school had been turned around through leadership. Since I rarely watch cable or network news until I read something about a story I want to see I could care less about the polls. I do find it striking that those that don’t like much coming from the right they constantly want to harp on fox while ignoring the striking imbalance prevalent throughout the rest of media. As far as the great movie outfoxed, produced by the ultra left brave new films group, I decided not to watch it. I did look at the group that published first to see who and what they were before making my choice on viewing their work; as I do on most pieces. If you are wondering what bob greenwald’s political views from this great organization the easy place to look is where he spends his money to voice his choice in politics http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search...

speaking of straw-man arguments; Nice response RAF. Ha-ha.

916- I comprehend RAFs posts just fine. What I understand that you may not about the German economy is that they are also suffering from the "global recession" the population is not feeling it nearly as much, because their population ha better general wages and a FAR superior health care system. As most with socialized medicine do.
Dont worry about my convorsations with RAF, add your own thoughts. Although I pretty much know what they are already, as you are very predictable.

Some links for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i357jsF4...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZMZ0waaT...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZMZ0waaT...

This one is good, "Right to be racist"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWimnx0NJ...
Look I watch Fox periodically, I find it very entertaining. To act as if any of the "news" networks should be used as some kind of information source is absolutely silly. They all pick and choose what they pursue, by people with ideological bias. Everyone has bias based on what they believe, its only human.

To Raf_ I never argued about urban problems in schools. What we need to be clear on is why urban schools are posting such dismal graduation rates. You have lived in Germany in your years in the Air Force, have you ever lived in a poor inner city neighborhood? I grew up in one, I have a very REAL understanding of the problems MANY kids face at home. To act as if the schools are the problem, is silly at best. So what is your answer? Just cut funding because the balance sheet isnt rosy for you to look at. I ask you again, read the article YOU posted. The problem isnt the rates in the inner cities, its the achievement gap and how do we fix it? Taking funding away, will solve NOTHING. Nor will some pie in the sky voucher program. Less funding is NOT the answer. My suggestion would be to have more hands on education with higher accountablity rates. I will tell you this, it certainly isnt the teachers failing the MPS, its the families failing the system, and until we can figure out ways to get these folks to participate iun their kids education the problem will never be solved.
What is the solution RAF, what is it? I want you to address the question with your own answer, not posted articles that actually speak to the realities of educating inner city kids. Your honest opinion. I would also point out that the horrible/awful teachers here in Janesville during this economic explosion, somehow have managed to get kids test scores up. I still hear people all over these blogs calling them greedy and not caring for the kids.
BTW, Raf I would agree that the editing on the Stewart/Wallace interview wasnt that bad. Your defense of Fox as a news organization is absolutely hilarious. I love watching Stewart pick them apart, pointing out hypocracies, over and over. I am sure that when Stewart points out that they use the Nazi reference over and over, right after Orielly says they dont is a fallacy right? They just contradict themselves constantly and I find it funny that a comedian on Comedy Central is always there to point it out. Other than the little gaf about misinformed viewers and polls , I found Stewart to be spot on, and enjoyed watching him pick Wallace apart. AAlso, regardless of polls, I would be very comfortable in the statement that Fox viewers are VERY misinformed. I also find it funny that most of the republicans on here love polls when they swing the way they want. Polls are fun to look at but merely fodder, agreed?
Want to find out what Fox does behind the scenes? Watch the DOCUMENTARY "Outfoxed" where dozens of former employees are interviewed about what they observed there. You might find it refreshing.

916- you may laugh about having enough funds, but the fact of the matter is that we have had the worlds largest economy for 100 years and have AlWAYS had the capital to pay for the programs that you seem to hate so much. Where did it go? The USA still has the largest economy on the earth, why is it that we now have no money? Could it be due to greed of corporations COMBINED with the government that they have lobbyed to and bought? If you enjoy being lied to , that is fine , but it is ME laughing at you then.
Why is it that you can make statements about the out of control defense spending in one phrase, yet when it comes to the destruction of public education you could ramble on for three paragraphs( Maybe not that long)? Why is it that you all find it courageous for Paul Ryan to suggest some draconian economic program that literally will allow millions of seniors to go broke or die , all while suggesting that we further cut corporate taxes? Is that courage?
My contention never was or will be that the USA is some endless pit of money, however we most certainly could get our priorities in order here, and start making sure that we continue to strive in the futuure.

speaking of straw-man arguments; " the wealthy have bought market and tax certainty guarantees from a government corrupt enough not only to give it to them, but to do so at the expense to take away basic safety nets from those who can least afford. Because of all those wonderful engineering concepts of choice, competition, responsibility and risk. "

Poor walter accusing an article of cherry picking while you just did the same thing. You skipped over these tidbits as well;

"Fox isn’t last on the list, although it’s close -- 35 percent of Fox viewers earned a high knowledge rating, which was tied with local television news and was one point ahead of the network morning shows. However, Fox’s 35 percent score places it exactly at the national average. This seems paradoxical -- Fox ranks near the bottom of a long list of media outlets, yet it sits right at the national average."

" Fox News as a whole ranked fairly low among regularly used media outlets -- 20 percent answered all four correctly and 18 percent answered three correctly. Still, those numbers beat the national average of 14 percent and 20 percent, respectively. (The best-scoring outlet, the Wall Street Journal, posted scores of 51 percent and 23 percent, respectively.) Fox actually scored better than its two direct cable-news rivals -- MSNBC, which is a liberal counterpoint to Fox, and CNN, which is considered more middle-of-the-road. Also scoring lower than Fox were local television news, the evening network news shows and the network morning shows."

And the overall conclusion: "The way Stewart phrased the comment, it’s not enough to show a sliver of evidence that Fox News’ audience is ill-informed. The evidence needs to support the view that the data shows they are "consistently" misinformed -- a term he used not once but three times. It’s simply not true that "every poll" shows that result. So we rate his claim False."

Politifact is an opinion. Fact is only in the name.

Retired,
Come on now. Politifact obviously has some kind of beef with Johnny StewBeef. They really picked his words apart in order to call them false.
Also, here's a nice little quote:
"For this reason, we believe that this study should carry less weight in analyzing Stewart’s comment."
For a site that claims to be OBJECTIVELY critiquing statements, this sounds an awful lot like an opinion.
Politifact tries to defend Fox News against the big bad 2010 WPO study by picking out 1, count it 1, question that they took issue with. Politifact's contention throughout the article is that it should be recognized that Fox News viewers are already more informed than the average U.S. citizen, yet all of the sudden Politifact claims that they can't decipher a simple survey question? Give me a break. What's more, Politifact didn't even come close to printing the full results of that study. They used one question to claim that the whole thing was unreliable.
I am declaring Politifact's findings to be incomplete and, consequently, worthless.
Regular Fox News viewers are more likely to believe a greater number of political falsehoods than people who never watch Fox News.
Politifact even concedes in their article that of "informed" media viewers, regular viewers of Fox News in general are most often the least informed.
Also, how crazy is it that the 24 hour "news" network Fox News can only put on 2 hours of actual quality informative programming a day, while the rest of the day is taken up with apparent misinformation? Politifact confirmed this, by the way. Hannity and O'Reilly viewers proved to be well informed. However, the rest of FoxNews's schedule apparently undoes all their hard work.

RAF - Oh yeah, waste is the suspect. Lack of choice or competition also fits the argument when waste isn't found. What else? Responsibility of course! Oh man, people lack responsibility - that's what I fail to see next. All of these constructs are simply right-wing straw men created to keep our eyes off the real suspect. Which is the realization that the wealthy have bought market and tax certainty guarantees from a government corrupt enough not only to give it to them, but to do so at the expense to take away basic safety nets from those who can least afford. Because of all those wonderful engineering concepts of choice, competition, responsibility and risk. Things the wealthy want no part of.

Sarah......That's classic! Making comments regarding the Republicans being uninformed, when you have consistently made comments about Wisconsin having a budget surplus that Walker "gave away" to big business--despite having info to the contrary sent your way multiple times.........the pot calling the kettle black once again:)

sarah you mean this part? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

fearandrhetoric4dummies: I enjoy reading your posts. Finally, someone who knows what is really going on in this world of ours. I fear, though, that there are many that do not understand this and won't wake up to the truth till it's too late.

Fear...since you're complaining about cutting parts of the program on Fox with Stewart, what about NBC cutting "One nation, under God" from the pledge before the US Open? Whose bias is running that liberal media organization? Maybe people will see what they are really like.

youkillme, the big difference you fail to see is any waste in private companies reduces their bottom line and makes them less competitive. If their competition can do the same thing for less they will be more successful and survive while wasteful company's fail. As long as the government does not pick and chose who they want to bailout the taxpayer and consumer will be protected. In government there is no incentive to improve. You think that a single wasteful company can continue to pass these costs to consumers while forgetting if their competitor is less wasteful they will sell their product for less, something all consumers gravitate towards.

fear I did watch the whole stewart wallace exchange yesterday on the web. As with all interviews for tv most are cut to fit the broadcast time, hardly a conspiracy. Perception is a wonderful thing, I never thought either wallace or stewart had the upper hand in their exchange, both had their views stuck from their own point of view and neither conceded much. Stewart pretends he is a comedian first and partisan second, fine whatever he thinks. At least wallace is willing to be honest about witch end he comes from.

fear they were words if you don't like them, think about that before you post them next time. Your blanket declaration that that our school system is not failing ignores the fact that certain schools are. So much so that in many large city schools the graduation rate is under 50%. You wanting to compare german healthcare is a joke should we also pay women more for having children like they did while I was there?

fear....You're having comprehension problems. Nowhere did RAF say that "Germany is a model that we should follow". He just provided an example as confirmation that you didn't know what you were talking about. I find your comments regarding this country having plenty of money for the entitlements you advocate for as laughable. I'll agree that our military spending is way out of line, but to shift that spending into government managed programs which have always had a dismal record in terms of accountability and fiscal responsibility in an effort to create this utopia where everyone is equal and receives everything for "free" would be a complete joke.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-s...

Wanna watch Fox news get kicked around by a comedian, doing an interview ON FOX NEWS!!?
Jon Stewart owns this network, and none of them are smart enough to match him. Watch it , absoluteley priceless. i watched the 14 minute interview on Fox, then I went online and watched the 24 min interview online. Jstew tkes him apart in both. Fox news convienient ly edits 10 minutes out. Stew beef OWNS these clowns.

RAF-"Since the left think everything can be fixed by taking more money from a sliver of the population, that causes issues, because it is not true"
Really? Or maybe some just think that this country has its priorities screwed up. Sick of watchin billions upon trillions given away in gifts to the biggest corporations and investment banks on Earth. Maybe we are sick and tired of our nation being held hostage by politicians and lobbyists that speak of a successful free-market system that has stolen their American dream. They invade other nations create an industrial military complex that outspends the rest of the world by 200-300%, they spend trillions on wars that get our bravest and best young men and women killed for nothing, or maybe Oil, or mineral deposits, or just geopolitics.Rebuliding nations at the cost of the taxpayer.
All while cutting funding for medicare for seniors , chopping down our future by cutting education funding, and elling out our middle class to China in the name of corporate profits, all while buying politicians to make tax policy that works well for them , while WE the people pick up the slack, by watching our social safety net is destroyed for world conquests.
This version of America is for the few to push the many into the Abyss. It may work for you RAF but times are getting and will continue to get worse. You can only blame the "left" and democrats for so long. They are all complicit in this. The USA is still the largest economy on Earth, even though we dont have the largest population. The facts are we , DO have the money for these programs, always have, its just time to prioritize. I dont want to take from only the few to pay for the many. I do however want this country to get its proverbial head out of its a$$ and start prioritizing things. WE DO HAVE the MONEY for all of the social programs that I advocate for, just time to start making certain things a priority. ALL of AMERICA is a priority, not just the poor or the rich. A healthy mix of public and private sector is going to be the only way forward. WHY? because NIETHER can be trusted, they are both corrupt and they will both break us. It is time for controls of the greed that has ruined this nation from the inside out, and it is time for a responsible government that cares for its people, not the special interest groups or the damn dirty lobbyists that buy laws.

BTW , your other link, from a "free-market think tank? Thats not a biased article at all is it? I could post 30 articles from the NEA and many other sources that would argue the opposite point but they are biased as well, biased toward providing a fair educatio for everyone who wants one. Thats the way it ought to be. Youll have to do better than that to convince me of any failure.
Why dont you go for a more local example? Link:http://gazettextra.com/weblogs/latest-news/2011/mar/29/janesville-students-improve-test-scores/ Hmmm maybe it doe work? Maybe when you cherrypick headlines, you can do it all day, so can I. Maybe the USA could take examples from Germany. Economically and socially link:http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2009/0728_recession_elliott.aspx

Wait , did you just say that Germany is a model that we should follow? Socialistic successful economy that hands their Citizens things like health care and education?
Any other nations that are similar to ours in education RAF that have better economies and health care? Maybe there are a FEW otrher nations that offer education to all of their citizens, I can make a mistake, You do all the time! I dont lie RAF thats a little harsh on your part but whatever.
Your links posted are FUNNY. Did you read the article on the journal site? It speaks EXCACTLY to the demographics problem that haunts our system! MPS is failing because the families they deal with have HUGE social/ substance and other problems!! You like many others that think the way you do look at the headline of 46% graduation rate failing to loook at the OBVIOUS socio economic problems most of the families face in the urban areas in this nation. The suburban areas surrounding Milwaukee graduate at n 82% rate according to your article (from 2003-2004) school year I might add! It absolutely points to what I have saying all along! Maybe it is YOU that should read back and read what I have said over and over about why our education system is NOT a failure. You see it as a balance sheet, you would just assume that the MPS should just have funding cut further, none of those people deserve an education, right? They should be moved to private (for-profit) schools and those teachers in Milwaukee should be held to account for those terrible numbers from 8 years ago! Cut their pay and benefits, thats the way to get the best and brightest to teach these kids that face unbelievable social and economic hardships that most in these rooms couldnt begin to understand. Lives filled with suibstance abuse, physical, mental abuse. Gang problems of the inner city, bad influences, one sometimes no parents to go home to, sometimes NO home to go home to! So your little article headline that makes you feel as if you scored some point about education, speaks to your total and absolute ignorance of the issue. READ the article, the GAP that plagyues these communities is a gap of economic and social privelidge, MOST of the kids in the troubled districts want an education, and MOST of the teachers want to give it to them , I would love to hear a solution for the inner city kids and the variables they face, RAF. Got any? Maybe we should just leave them out, they are just poor minorities in many cases a drag on society for the almighty taxpayer.

There is waste in private run programs too but they get to "write-off" some of it. But when we are talking about money waste, it's not like the money is burned in a campfire never to exist again. I'm not trying to justify waste because most of it is deliberate or fraudulent. I'm just trying to say the money does go somewhere within the economy as crazy as it sounds. But if there's never been a program fixed by putting more money in the system - What are we arguing about? That is - money does tend to do wondrous things, otherwise why are people so desperate to hold onto what money they have? I don't believe the Left thinks everything can be fixed by taking more money from a sliver of the population, but it is as much a part of the equation as the Right thinks it can fix everything with tax cuts or no taxes and privatize everything. While the working poor and middle-class are barraged by ads every minute into purchasing over-priced goods and services from the wealthy class and can afford to buy only because of the credit or insurance industries - something is very wrong. Those two industries have taken away much of the risk for the wealthy by guaranteeing their sales transactions. In the meantime, when the purchaser go belly-up (loss of job, health, accident or other), they tend to lose nearly everything. When the credit industry bites off more than they can chew because of greed, they apply for a government hand-out to balance their books - or else threaten an economic meltdown. While the wealthy "got theirs," their customers at the bottom rung on the ladder got the shaft. This is the biggest reason why the wealthy were able to accumulate trillions while everyone else is broke. The government is little more than a pawn and plaything for the wealthy now because more and more politicians are corrupt and doing their bidding. These politicians use their position to legislate those guarantees for the wealthy. With accumulated trillions, the wealthy can now buy "certainty" from crooked politicians and take away safety net certainty from workers and seniors. This is our corrupted and captured free market capitalist system. Broken and rotten to the core. Just my opinion.

"your argument seems to be entirely aimed at cost and cutting everything so the wealthy can pay less taxes. That is what every argument you make is centralized around. Why not just understand that this country is built for 300 million people not just the 10% that are the only important ones."
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Hardly. I have always stated there is waste in all government run programs. There has never been a program fixed by putting more money in the system. Since the country is based on all people, all people's taxes (money taken from them) are important not just from one class. Since the left think everything can be fixed by taking more money from a sliver of the population, that causes issues, because it is not true.

" Our ed system has NOT failed, NOR is it failing."
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/2...

http://www.wpri.org/Commentary/2008/5.08...

"The facts are that we are the only country on Earth that offers ALL of our citizens an education"
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Completely untrue. I lived more than three years in germany, what you say is a lie.

To you kills question , YES, ALL insurance needs to go. Catastrophic wouldnt be so high if the hospital wouldnt be able to collect such HUGE amounts from insurance companies. An excellent way to change prices, mainly lower them. Presenting false choices given to you by the very companies that fix the system in your favor WILL NEVER make care affordable, it a myth at best.
No offense RAF but your "free-market system is failing for the great majority of Americans, and its only getting worse. I actually just met a family with young children this morning that had health Insurance, until their daughter was diagnosed with a lymphoid disease that had her in the hospital every 8 days for 2 years. The insurance company has FOUGHT tooth and nail to not cover their 2 year old daughters bills, thats a service they paid for. I dont trust any industry that spends almost a billion dollars in salary each year on employees whose sole purpose is to find ways NOT to cover people that have paid their premiums. Yet you continue to advertise this as some great choice that will miraculously drive down prices. RIGHT!!!

Number one- the failure of the market in 2008 showed us that market based solutions CANNOT be trusted. Offering "choice" to health consumers will do NOTHING to prices. Make them rise more than likely as long as insurance and pharmecuticals are running the show. Its collusion that cannot be stopped.
Your comparison of medicine and education just doesnt jive. Right now poor folks can get a shot at an education, good luck getting any kind of decent health care unless your kidney fails or you have a busted limb. Other than Public Ed being tapayer funded , and medicare being taxpayer funded , there are almost ZERO comparisons between the two.
I also would like you to give a solution to what you call a failing education system. a solution that doesnt leave LARGE parts of the population out in the cold. From our previoous conversations RAF I know you have no problems with certain parts of the population that may not be as fortunate as others get substandard care. So if your comparison is at all relavant, then what woulfd you do with all of the families/ kids that cant send their kids to a school far away, or some FAILED private school.
The facts are that we are the only country on Earth that offers ALL of our citizens an education, which makes numbers look great for you to post a "failed" tag on. Our ed system has NOT failed, NOR is it failing. You need to look at other things that arent on a balance sheet. Unfortunately rhetoric works, when you have no solutions. Your answer is to pay teachers less, offer less benefits and less retirement. What do you suppose that would do to the system? Attract young bright minds to teach future generations? If you want to argue curriculum, we can do that, your argument seems to be entirely aimed at cost and cutting everything so the wealthy can pay less taxes. That is what every argument you make is centralized around. Why not just understand that this country is built for 300 million people not just the 10% that are the only important ones. Kids in inner cities have bad family lives and struggle in school, is it their fault? should they knuckle up and just go work at McDs? Sorry but the comparisons of health care and education arent even close. Health care is the top cause of personal bankruptcy in this nation, how does that compare to education? Are families going bankrupt if they cant afford hot lunch for their kids? Or field trip money? Or paying for lost books? Get real RAF, please. Argue the system and YOUR suggested solutions, comparisons like this are silly at best.

With the cost of catastrophic care prohibitively expensive I don't see how all insurance can go away. I do favor a system more like what is used in consumer auto insurance. Most of the car maintenance is paid directly by the consumer and only highly expensive care from accidents are paid for with insurance. By involving third payer in all care the patients are not being served. Nothing in the current system or the massive system being forced through at the federal level addresses this. I don't pretend to know or have all the answers nor do I claim to have the fix to cure it all. Ignoring consumer driven price controls and how it works in the rest of the market is ignoring what can start to work.

RAF, do you support the end of the insurance industry? ALL insurance, not just government backed, hides the true costs of the individual's loss - except for what extra they have to pay for. ALL insurance, not just government, have rates set at a bureaucratic level. ALL insurance, not just government, socializes the losses on the backs of all of the participants in the plan. Your 11:25 statement in my view is strictly private vs public. If you really want patient choice and competition in the health care industry - the middle man must go.

fear.....that list would definitely provide good times all around--until it came time to pay the bill.

fear the current education system is very much like healthcare. Most of the money is taken from taxpayers and paid at rates set by a bureaucratic level (medicare/medicaid and federal and state funding formulas for education). There are many that make money off these besides insurance companies but that is the only thing you see. In both cases the consumer, patient and student, are pawns in the system. They are taught based on what the system wants and treated based on what the system pays. Neither is informed of what the costs are, except for what extra they have to pay for. Neither is afforded much chance to shop for the best service based on the price. Both of these systems cost the most per student and patient than any other modern country. Funny how spending the most for medical care as a nation is labeled as corrupt by some yet these same people want more spent on another failed system education. In both systems there are great people trying to do great work caught in the devised rules that inhibit efficiency and savings. This is no different than the military spending in this nation, the last thing thought of in many cases is being efficient and saving money. The majority of all government programs are inefficient and wasteful, feeding the beast is not a fix for the problems. Letting patients choose where and how to spend their treatment dollars will force change in the medical system just like it does for eye care and dentistry. Letting students and parents decide where and how to spend their education dollars will force change in the education system, similar to how private schools and colleges compete for students. Change is never easy or acceptable, nor is a new plan always the best way (as seen by everyone). Wanting more government control over more of our society and spending by way of expanding single payer in healthcare will only increase the problems and not fix anything. If change is needed why not fix it the right way the first time?

The Second Bill of Rights was a list of rights proposed by Franklin D. Roosevelt, the then President of the United States, during his State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944. In his address Roosevelt suggested that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second "bill of rights". Roosevelt's argument was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness." Roosevelt's remedy was to declare an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee:

Employment, with a living wage,
Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies,
Housing,
Medical care,
Education, and,
Social security
Roosevelt stated that having these rights would guarantee American security, and that America's place in the world depended upon how far these and similar rights had been carried into practice. Later in the 1970s, Czech jurist Karel Vasak would categorize these as the ‘second generation’ rights in his theory of three generations of human rights

Seen by many as the greatest American president this man was truley a visionary. Not a socialist, a realist. Link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4

Donna- First off your labelling defines your every post. You can call me a "lefty" all you like, typical Fox tactics. Second off I am far more concerned with EDUCATING kids properly, I personally dont believe that it should all come directly from your property taxes. When it comes to funding why dont you ask the same questions about the military? Obviously you have no problems with the way and how much of your precious tax dollars are directed that way. To me educating future generations shouldnt be some kind of budgetary argument especially when those saying we spend too much, with no solutions to offer, other than cut funding, essentially meaning pay teachers less.All this time I thought you "righties" blamed the lederly and the entitlement community for the 14 trillion debt (mostly run up by "righties".
Raf- ARe you comparing teachers to insurance companies? Really? Are you telling me that education needs to be according to privelidge? Trying to figure out the relationship between health care and education. Are you comparing insurance agents to teachers? Hmm kinda apples and oranges to me. I think that teachers are providing an extremely important service, that goes UNDER compensated and UNDER appreciated. Where insurance is a scam , and agent sells you a service that doesnt in many cases even give you the service/coverage that you pay for.
I like the folks that use labels like "lefties" though , just shows that you have NOTHING. If you have any kinds of solutions to the "problems" that you percieve education in this country to have, other than cutting funding, cutting teacher compensation, I would LOVE to hear them. Private schools are certainly NOT the answer. I think that they cant achieve the same numbers as public schools(in Wisconsin) even being able to cherry pick their students. So please donna educate all of us "lefties" on your solutions to the education "problems" in this country. I am sure that you believe that education is a part of the entitlement society that you despise so very much. i for one think that as Americans certain things WE ARE entitled to. A good education should be in the bill of rights IMO. Of course the "king Lefty" FDR wanted to issue a second bill of rights that would be MUCH more applicable to todays society,. but his life was cut short before it could happen. The plutocracy that you so adore won out in the end.

It's class warfare to recognize it, publicize it or fight against it.

"Republican tax cuts are a form of class warfare"
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Since all tax payers received a tax cut what is the conflict red?

Red the words class warfare was never typed by you, but your comments are dripping in class warfare. In your last six posts in this blog you have mentioned: giving away millionions, once. Middle income/class, 3 times. Lower income, 3 times. Wealthy, 4 times. Tax cuts, 8 times. Tax burden, 4 times. Unfairly, once. Transfer of wealth, once.

Perhaps you don’t know the meaning of class warfare; "class warfare - conflict between social or economic classes"

"class warfare remarks on tax cuts"

First of all RAF, I made no mention of "class warfare" but since you brought it up, I'm glad you are finally acknowledging that the Republican tax cuts are a form of class warfare. The facts prove there has been a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy as a result of Republican economic policies. If that isn't class warfare, RAF, then perhaps you could provide us with a better example.

Fear and all the other lefties...how much money is enough? How about every property tax payer pays $1000 more a year towards education? Or how about $2,000, or $10,000? Or how about the state funding for education goes to $5000000 more to every school? Will that make the teachers teach better? Will that make the students want to learn more? Let's raise state income taxes by 10% will that make you happy? Let's raise the taxes companies pay by 8% will that be enough? When is the majgic number enough? We have increased programs to fight poverty every year and after $14 trillion later we still have lots if not more poverty. I'm just asking.

"whats your solution to education problems in this country? Take money away and expect better performance?"
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Wow, that has been your fix for the medical system in this country.

fear before offering your input perhaps you should have read the previous ones. I nor anyone claimed the only taxes paid were federal income. My comments were directed to an absurd comment over federal tax rate cuts. For the record I think all the tiny taxes take a toll on all people.

Of course RAF the ONLY tax paid by anyone is INCOME tax right? Forget all of the sales taxes and taxes paid on any service you attain, cell phone bills etc,etc,etc. Aparantly those folks that make say 18,000 a year and dont pay any federal income taxes should shell out 20% more of their income, right? It is funny how that is forgotten by the "47% dont pay any taxes" crowd. Laughable.
Vato- whats your solution to education problems in this country? Take money away and expect better performance? Are you even aware of the problems that public education suffers from? What do you suggest? Just trash the system and provide vouchers for private schools? What happens then to inner city kids/families? Screw em? I love hearing the righties talk about how throwing money at a problem doesnt make it work, why is our system of education a problem? If you actually understand demographics and why certain numbers look the way they do , you might understand that because we are possibly the only nation on Earth that offers an education chance to EVERY individual in this nation, that our system is quite remarkable. I would also point out that we have a tremendously over priced military in this country that we keep increasing funding to, why is that? Aparantly occupying soverign nations is more inportant than educating our next generation? Whats your solution? Cutting teachers pay and benefits to that of a gas station cashier? Letting middle class and lower class elderly die because they cant afford our overpriced medication or care in this nation?
The "fiscal conservatives" in this nation care about funding THEIR ideology, and saying screw everyone else. That is my problem, you people act like you give a care about cost control until it comes to actually controlling cost on things that you believe are important. that doesnt make you a conservative it just makes you a partisan.

Red your ignorance is on display once again. First off when I sleep is beyond your understanding. Since you are the one that flopped the class warfare remarks on tax cuts why are you backing from the subject? You never did respond how you can reduce a rate below zero...

You shouldn't be posting past your bedtime RAF. Middle and lower income families have a greater tax burden than the wealthy when you take into account ALL taxes. While most Fed & State income tax rates are progressive, because of Federal and State deficits, most other forms of taxes (and fees) are regressive. Evidently you fail to grasp the fact that Americans pay many more taxes (and fees) than simply a Federal income tax.

Speaking of jokes red, how exactly do you give a tax cut? Perhaps you have forgotten that taxes are monies given to the government, from people and business. Since the 2001-2003 tax cuts, all tax payers got a rate reduction. Your joke of a complaint, top 20% got an average cut of $5800, while the bottom 20% got $20 shows your inability to grasp the situation. If their obligation, for federal income tax, is already close to or zero there is little or nothing left to cut.

http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collecti...

Really bebe, you should join the Colbert Report. Your last comment was meant to be a joke right?
You claim Obama "pursues policies of increasing tax burdens, increasing regulations and socialistic economic redistribution policies-class warfare at it's best".

Look up the term "double standard" bebe. Republican tax cuts have simply shifted the tax burden to local taxing authorities which are regressive, unfairly placing more of the tax burden on middle and low income households. Eliminating regulations or relying on self regulation ends up costing the taxpayer more in the long run (remember Wall St). But the best is your "socialistic economic redistribution policies". I think we know them better as the Bush Tax Cuts.

This quote was taken from a meeting of the Ways and Means Committee in Sept 2007.
“Congress has enacted more than $2 trillion in tax cuts since 2001, disproportionately concentrated on the rich. In 2006, the bottom 20 percent of income earners got an average $20 tax cut--three-tenths of a percent of their income. Most in that income group got nothing. The top 20 percent got an average tax cut of almost $5,800 or 5.4 percent of income. At the very top where the big winners in the economic lottery reside, the average tax cut was more than 6 percent of income.”
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Keep those jokes coming bebe!

First off, Each district chooses their own path to a childs reading/writing/math skills. There needs to be some sort of standard set of cirriculum. Knowing what I know about the specific cirriculums in both Janesville and Milton , they are very different. To say that teachers are "hog tied" is FALSE. To say that teachers are "teaching to a test" is another false statement. Bush's "every Child left behind" was a totally unfunded piece of garbage , that just was full of beans. It did NOTHING to promote education.
I also would like to point out that it is REPUBLICANS that seem to have a hate for public education. They are also the ones that seem to think that there is a huge number of teachers that underperform. They are also the ones that want the testing to be the measuring stick for teachers and how they are paid. I on the other hand think that teachers are TREMENDOUSLY unappreciated , and UNDERCOMPENSATED.
I know that some of you think they need no union,and that is the reason for suggesting charter schools. While charter schools are nice for kids that learn differently, but most KIDS NEED STRUCTURED learning.
Some may think our systm isn't working, I disagree. I think education needs MORE funding, not less! We need to start prioritizing things in this country , not just saying we need change by cutting funding. The military gets spending increases every year, yet we are cutting education in Wisconsin by a billion dollars? seems bass ackwards to me.
By the way Ezoner your statement about immigrants giving more to their kids , is just so off the wall I dont know what the heck you are talking about. It has NOTHING to do with race. If you love your kids , you love your kids , it has nothing to do with some crazy stereotype. Talk about education, if you start stereotyping it makes you look severely uneducated and bigoted.

Clarity, our financial situation is WORSE than Greece, we just keep printing "money" which gives the illusion that our boat is still afloat. All the federal reserve notes we print devalue the dollar, however. When it finally becomes apparent that our money is worthless, we will have what Greece is experiencing, only WORSE, because Homeland Security has been militarizing our police.

Clairty: I would beg to disagree. I think you very well may see it in your life time.

Fear and You Kill -- You are focused on the wrong problem. The problem is NOT capitalism. Its individuals and that is a problem in either system. In socialized or communist systems its a total abuse of power and position -- in capitalism, its the same. The difference is in capitalism all have an opportunity, in socialism thats not the case.

I would agree with others after watching my kids in school that NCLB actually promotes meiocrity and does not promote excelence. Teachers teach to a standardized set of knowledge and do not challenge or stretch the knowledge capabilities. Parents must now fill that role completely. What I find is immigrants (especially Asian) challenge t heir children and take advantage of their new found freedoms. While Americans typically do not take the time because they are used to education as it was when they were in school and things were more individually challeneged academically. We actually need to return to the educational system we had previously or abandon our current system in favor of charter schools. The system is broken and teachers are hog tied.

@ Fear -

...And it's 'blasphemy', not 'blasphemic'.
.
One of these days it'll click.

Fear --

I too, know quite a few teachers, and several subs as well (my sister is pretty much a full-time substitute in the Beloit School District, not to mention both of my grandparents (mom's side) were substitute teachers, with my grandmother being one for many years). I agree 100%: quite often, parents have not been bringing enough (if anything at all) to the plate.
What I am looking at here is what is being offered as curriculum as of late. The curriculum has been changing, and it has been becoming more homogenized, more collectivist:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/taylor1...
Competition and individualism are slowly being phased out to where the strive to win is considered almost blasphemic. No strive to win (or even rhetorically 'be the best') eventually translates into 'no strive to learn', or at least some element of complacency in being average,
'No Child Left Behind', seemed to keep the ball rolling, what with the indirect adverse effects of an openly broad playing field known as 'attaining proficiency':
http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoove...
And for those who have been trying abide and follow the rules, it's been getting tougher to keep following the rules:
http://www.newsleader.com/article/201106...
and here:
http://washingtonindependent.com/110995/...
Hopefully Congress will let NCLB fall by the wayside.
.
I'm not saying that it's a rampant situation everywhere, but there's enough of it happening to take notice.
.
Meanwhile, what happens if parents bring too much to the plate, without the proper credentials:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...
.
There is absolutely no reason why kids should not have an education. You will never ever hear me argue against that point -- education is a constant learning experience, of course, not only contained within the confines of grades K-12.
It is certain aspects of the system of education however, that I argue are in need of improvement.

its not capitalism that scares me, its unfettered , un regulated capitalism. Unfortunatetly due to human nature and greed, capitalism is failing because of the nature of Americans and their un relenting thirst for more.

If capitalism pushes America to the brink of economic apocalypse like it nearly did in September of 2008, we could see a revolution in our lifetimes. The question is whether the socialized power of government taxation can afford to keep the corpse alive a second time.

Not Government , Goldmann Sachs. they are the government. So is Exxon Mobil, Fizer, shall I keep going? Plutocratic Oligarchy, we dont have a government anymore, it is owned by those with the most money, period! Is that what the "founding fathers" were searching for when they started this nation in hypocricy? Doubtful.
Like the royal rich class we revolted agaiunst in 1770's it is coming again. I can only hope the second revolution is during my lifetime.
Clarity, I am HAPPY to hear you are a successful business person. It is not folks like you I have a problem with. Its the dishonest SOBs lobbying and buying laws in our government.Creating a de-regulated state of society that allows them to jam through a 3 page 1.3 trillion dollar TARP bailout in a few days?

Of the corporations, by the corporation, and for the corporations. Or investment banks , whatever your pleasure.

and crickets...........

And fear, one thing these blue-blooded, patriotic, flag waving conservative capitalists don't want to discuss is how their Republican party supported the bailouts and TARP. When things were really tough, these Republican conservative capitalists supported government ownership of private businesses! Hallelujah.

fear, I'm quite sure the wealth redistribution policies bebe is speaking about are the very policies you see Walker and Ryan attempting to implement. Walker's policies have already resulted in higher taxes on the middle class and lower taxes on the wealthiest. In essence, redistributing wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest.

bebe what regulations? wall street is still running wild, taxes are way too low on rich folks. So could you please point out these socialistic redistribution policies? Health care isnt one, it GIVES insurance companies 30-50 million new customers!! I am anti-Obamacare! It is just a corporate giveaway! Obama is NO socialist, trut me, those of you that aspouse that view have ZERO to back it up. he is a corporatist just like every other damn president we have had for the las 50 years. Your socialist label is a laughable little talking point, and I am laughing. Prove me wrong. Besides health care (which isnt socialistic) what do you have . he kept your tax cuts that helped wreck the economy, he ordered the murder of Osama Bin Laden. You guys should be worshiping him! Yet you hate him because all of your yapping media sources tell you what to say/think/believe and you do! Pathetic!

Clarity, Not sure if I want that huge government, jut want them involved in the right places thats all. I do understand your point of view though. You have yours and I have mine. I just really appreciate honest conversation. Very few that share your POV are capable of such intelligence. Kudos to you, much respect.

I realize, bebe, that all Republicans need to do is hang a "Mission Accomplished" banner to consider their job complete but in the real world change takes a little longer. Unless you have your head in the sand, you know very well that our current economic condition was not the result of just one Republican policy failure and that Obama can't pass legislation just by waving his hand. However, based on history, I am confident that Democrat based economic policies will improve our economy in the long term if Republicans don't stand (or sit) in the way.

(From the The Bureau of Economic Analysis)
"The average GDP growth during years with a Democratic President (5.1%) is nearly three times as great as those with a Republican President (1.8%). The average GDP growth during the entire administrations of these last 12 Presidents is also quite different. The four with the greatest average GDP growth are all Democrats: Roosevelt 6.4%, Truman 6.2%, Kennedy 5.7%, and Johnson 4.2%. The four Presidents whose administrations saw the weakest economic growth were all Republicans: Hoover -7.3%, Bush41 1.9%, Bush43 2.4%, and Eisenhower 2.7%. For simplicity, the economic growth of the entire term is associated with the elected President, for the unfinished terms of Roosevelt and Kennedy."

clarity,
Well if you're operating a small business and you're paying your taxes, then you are getting the tax breaks whether you think you are or not. If you're business doesn't qualify as a small business, congratulations to ya.

Well, clarity, then perhaps you and the President aren't so far apart idealogically after all. If you had a better understanding of how Obama's policies were benefitting your business, you might realize that. You must be too busy being "profitable" to do your homework.

If not government then who? The private sector is in charge right now and have driven costs higher than any in the world. We pay twice as much for WORSE care! Single payer system may not be the answer for you because you think government is inept. The ONLY way to control costs is with regulation, sorry to say it but free-market economics cannot be allowed to rule in health care, that is the reason costs are so high.
A single payer system may not be perfect but its better than ours, and it WORKS in other parts of the world. Private sector CANNOT be trusted with this particular industry. I also believe that energy should be socialized as well. Outside of that you can have your free market.

I'm so tired of hearing them say they're doing what they were voted to do. I did NOT vote for any Republicans to rob from the poor to give to the rich. If I had a chance, I'd take the vote back in a heartbeat. Oh, that's right. We will get the chance. :)

clarity,
You know as well as I do that being successful in business involves a fair amount of risk. I hear a lot of people that run their own businesses talking about "uncertainty", and it's a whole lot of hot air. The President has presided over 17 new or extended tax cuts or credits that have allowed my business to flourish in an industry that has been notorious for failure even in good economic times. The whole "frozen at the switch" excuse is nothing more than a cop out. Even when the health are law fully takes effect, its impact will be minimal given the benefits we're already receiving and the profits we're already seeing. We have been hiring though not very much. The reason for that being that we never had to lay anyone off. If a truly small business is having difficulty, it certainly doesn't have much to do with Obama's handling of the economy. It has more to do with the owner's handling of the small business.

Clarity- said "Regarding legislation...I can start with the EPA and end whereever you would like. Not to thrilled about Obamas proposed tax increase either" What about the EPA do you dislike?
I would also like you to speak to the "tax increases" I could have sworn that Obama agreed to extend your precious tax-cuts for the wealthy. So you should be a supporter. I dont understand. Help me to understand your logic.
Do you agree with my contention that the burden of health care should be individual based, not employer? Single payer is the ONLY way.

It wont if you already provide your employees with decent benefits Bebe, dont you think that most full time employees should have a decent benefit package?
I am not going to beat around the healthcare bush with you people again. In short I will say this. Obamacare is NOT the answer. We all NEED care so Weall should PAY FOR IT!! Single payer system where all taxpayers are on the hook. Employers should not be paying the lions share of insurance premiums, in fact health insurance should NOT exist at all. It is the most corrupt Immoral business on Earth.
Look on youtube and type in " Health care Horror stories" you will see hundreds of stories of people that PAID for coverage that got screwed when they or a family member got ill. Thats what you people want to continue??
Dont hate the player , hate the game.

Why do you hate the EPA? Because they make laws so that businesses cant dump sewage into lakes and have to monitor theuir own emissions? Did you not see what Bejing looked like during the Olympics with their people wearing masks? That is where you want to go so you dont have to follow any environmental laws?
Please state the EXACT envronmental laws that scare you as a businessman, I would be intrigued to hear why you seem to hate environmentalism so much.

The only knock on this Budget is the Wisconsin EIC credit reduction and you can't tell us the percent the credit lowered to.

But seriously - if you admit that you read all of fearandrhetoric4dummies posts, you're not telling the truth.

Some people have way too much time on their hands.

Auto bailoout was a LOAN that is being paid back with intrerest!!! Taxpayers make MONEY!! 1/40th the size of the bank bailout and directly saved between 1 and 2 million AMERICAN jobs. I think that is a good thing, try to leave the unions out if you can.

Pork? Cmon Vato, what about the bank bailout? That didnt save a job! Cost more than the stimulus and is GONE, basically gave the folks that killed the economy a trillion dollars for their trouble? That happened under.............

OH Joe (not really Joe) the plumber (not really a plumber), with the "spread the wealth rhetoric? Really? thats what you have? Now theres the comedy I was expecting!
Um I dont spread fear , I am all about FACTS and LOGIVCAL arguments. If you choose to skim and not read the facts, your choice. I cant push my comments out in 3 rhetoric filled statements, sorry that your attention span isnt long enough.
3 billion first off is a TOTALLY overblown number , and is little more than 5% of our total economy over a two year period. Lets not misconstrew here , the budget is a 2 year budget. I dont see how our governement can go from a 137 million dollar defecit (2009-2010 budget) to 3 billion. Unless of course you take MAX funding requests from EVERY single state entity and add them up. Of course that is the exact same budget trick that Doyle used to get elected over McCallum, advertising a MUCH larger defecit than was actually true. If ANYONE believes that Governor Monkey Butt is going to take us to 100 million thats is a grand belief, we are pretty much there any ways! Case in Point:http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf
remember everything is based on projections including Scooters grand dreams of 250,000 jobs and his assumption that our projected defecit is 3000% higher than the last bi-ennial budget.
Maybe if we pursued the to tax delinquents to the tune of a BILLION dollars annually in Wisconsin, then we could close this hole at the expense of the tax cheats and not the middle class families and public education.
Case in point:http://www.revenue.wi.gov/delqlist/Topten.htm
Highly doubtful with a republican AG! Pretty sad when they refuse to prosecute wealthy law breakers, huh! Probably campaign donors. How many state workers , teachers on that list Ill bet.
I have to make my points with MY OWN words. Unfortunately Vato when I speak of the parrots and the zombies I am simply talking of folks that REPEAT their points from TV, and Radio. BTW how am I supposed to take your link seriously when its from the heritage foundation? Probably the most slanted site on the internet. That is somehow proof that your point is correct? I keep looing back and i dont see many links from you that are from lefty sites? Why is that? Maybe because you only visit ONE sides sites, and ridicule the others without reading? seems to be the truth to me.
Back to work , Ill check back later to see how many more of you will be repeating Vickie McKenna(not her real name) or maybe Chuckie Sykes, or maybe Belling. A fine bunch of undereducated loudmouths on the radio.

OH Joe (not really Joe) the plumber (not really a plumber), with the "spread the wealth rhetoric? Really? thats what you have? Now theres the comedy I was expecting!
Um I dont spread fear , I am all about FACTS and LOGIVCAL arguments. If you choose to skim and not read the facts, your choice. I cant push my comments out in 3 rhetoric filled statements, sorry that your attention span isnt long enough.
3 billion first off is a TOTALLY overblown number , and is little more than 5% of our total economy over a two year period. Lets not misconstrew here , the budget is a 2 year budget. I dont see how our governement can go from a 137 million dollar defecit (2009-2010 budget) to 3 billion. Unless of course you take MAX funding requests from EVERY single state entity and add them up. Of course that is the exact same budget trick that Doyle used to get elected over McCallum, advertising a MUCH larger defecit than was actually true. If ANYONE believes that Governor Monkey Butt is going to take us to 100 million thats is a grand belief, we are pretty much there any ways! Case in Point:http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf
remember everything is based on projections including Scooters grand dreams of 250,000 jobs and his assumption that our projected defecit is 3000% higher than the last bi-ennial budget.
Maybe if we pursued the to tax delinquents to the tune of a BILLION dollars annually in Wisconsin, then we could close this hole at the expense of the tax cheats and not the middle class families and public education.
Case in point:http://www.revenue.wi.gov/delqlist/Topten.htm
Highly doubtful with a republican AG! Pretty sad when they refuse to prosecute wealthy law breakers, huh! Probably campaign donors. How many state workers , teachers on that list Ill bet.
I have to make my points with MY OWN words. Unfortunately Vato when I speak of the parrots and the zombies I am simply talking of folks that REPEAT their points from TV, and Radio. BTW how am I supposed to take your link seriously when its from the heritage foundation? Probably the most slanted site on the internet. That is somehow proof that your point is correct? I keep looing back and i dont see many links from you that are from lefty sites? Why is that? Maybe because you only visit ONE sides sites, and ridicule the others without reading? seems to be the truth to me.
Back to work , Ill check back later to see how many more of you will be repeating Vickie McKenna(not her real name) or maybe Chuckie Sykes, or maybe Belling. A fine bunch of undereducated loudmouths on the radio.

Kiesha, Walker is raiding the WRS to the tune of 150,000,000 a year.

Clarity,
I could use some clarity on one of your points. Do you really want to see the economy stagnate simply because your idealogy is different than the President's? Do you believe that people with an idealogy that differs from your's deserve less of an opportunity to succeed? It sounds like you believe that those that agree with the President should not be allowed to prosper. If I'm wrong here, please correct me because if my assumption is accurate, you are the embodiment of pure evil.

Finally…A budget without gimmicks or stealing from other programs or dependent on Federal funds. Even the Milwaukee Journal admits this is an honest budget that will do what it says: Cut the deficit from 3 billion to 100 million in two years. THANK YOU GOV. WALKER FOR NOT CAVING IN. God Bless You Sir.

Can you please list the tax breaks that all these wealthy corporations are getting? -jcommon

One word: loopholes
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21...
Tax rates should ONLY be adjusted in conjunction with tax REFORM which is why the Bush tax cuts, which were meant to be an economic stimulus, failed miserably.
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Really grandys! You’re going to toss around that “elitist socialist” crap again? Given your use of the terms it’s obvious you don’t understand the meaning either word. If you are serious about elected leaders taking responsibility for their actions, then insist State Legislators take a pay cut to help balance the budget, even if it would only serve as a symbolic measure. The current deficit resulted from a the failed economic policies of a Republican President and the lack of restraint by BOTH Republican AND Democrat State Legislators, NOT teachers and public employees. All we get from Republicans is the same propaganda (trickle-down economics) as they pretend to promote economic growth while blaming everything and everyone for their own ineptitude. Tommy Thompson left a deficit even as he lost billions in future revenue by taking Wisconsin’s share of cigarette litigation funds in a lump sum to help “balance” the budget and Bush left a behind a massive national deficit after 8 years in office. Republicans should do what they do best; whine, complain and get out of the way and let Democrats grow the economy. What part of “failed Republican economic policies” don’t you understand?

Oh and lets not forget George Soros telling Obama to dictate.
Which he is, bypassing Congress to EPA on Cap and Tax and Libya War.
Socialist or worse

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/201...

take over of private car company, healthcare, oil drilling, suing boeing, housing manipulation, stimilus to union and donor buddies, crony capitalism,
etc etc
actions speak louder then even words he wishes he could lead communist China

Thanks, fear, for every one of your posts. I enjoyed reading every single one of them. As usual, you make a lot of sense.

Vato- More expected rhetoric. Could you please point out ONCE where MR Obama has said socialism is the way? I looked and looked , but couldnt find it. More hyperbole from a fear mongering parrot. Give it a rest , go back to the comedy your better at that.
Try to make an argument that makes substance, I dont think you can.

Grandys- you know I was thinking the same thing about you! Maybe you should lay off the sauce so early in the afternoon! It REALLY clouds your judgement.

I live a mile from the Janesville Wal Mart and havent been there since they opened. Its NOT that hard to do. There are plenty of other stores in Janesville to shop at, lets support them, get this eye sore and drag on our country out of here. I know one way to get em out, have the employees unionize, they closed a store in Canada when that happened!

Strict party-line voting on something as important as the budget shows the electorate sheep are voting in the wrong shepherds. We need more independent voters and politicians to brake/break the ruinous see-saw partisan politics that are plaguing both Wisconsin state and the Federal government.

Clarity- could you be specific on those 'regulations' that the Obama admin has passed other than health care reform? That will NOT have any direct affect on your business, unless you already choose not to provide any benefits to your employees. Which is why I advocate a single payer system taking that burden OFF of employers and placing it on the citizenry(where it should be) companies shouldnt be shouldering the load when it comes to health insurance.
I would also like to point out that Obama has left in place the beloved "bush tax cuts" so what is it you are waiting on, specifically. I think that you and others just dont want to contribute to the economy succeeding under a president that you have an ideologicxal problem with.
Please dont give me the BS aboout exports, the USA has a trade defecit of about 50 billion dollars. Many of the countries that ship goods here wont allow ours in, is that the "global Economy" that you speak of? If a "global economy includes sending jobs to China to make MORE money, then I want NO part of it. MOST if not all of these multi national corporations were turning a fine profit before they lobbied to move overseas, so the argument that these companies were hurting before making their products for pennies on the dollar is just nonsense. Plus, why is it that all of you free(rigged) market capitalists seem to have no problem with taking advantage of countries that could care less about their people and have ZERO labor or environmental standards? Just shows me that folks are money hungry, inhumane , and greedy bastards. Dont act like you care about the country if yyou advocate moving manufacturing to other nations in the name of MORE profits. NIKE was the biggest shoe maker on earth BEFORE moving their ops to Taiwan.
I say it again, if youadvocate for free trade you are Anti-American. Free-trade has been the biggest drag on employment in this nation PERIOD. Middle class , GONE!! 20 MILLION AMerican manufacturing jobs gone since Clinton signed NAFTA. Bush , Obama and all of the damn politicians are guilty of this crap, wonder who is stuffing their pockets?
Clarity- You tell me how globalization helps America, other than inthe investing class? As we have seen they havent done that well either. This is just another prime example of Class warfare.

sorry, I was incorrect on the year and
no qualifying children is zero credit
1 child is only 4% in 2010
2 is 14%
3/more is the big one at 43%

But like Obama told that guy - stop having so many kids. His words not mine

*Yet, the legislature thinks it is better to keep that money out of the state for the sake of making sacrifices.*

In case you haven't noticed, the FedGov is 14 trillion in the hole.

dtb - EIC is the federal earned income credit.
Wisconsin's seperate state only started in 2009 and was 10% of the federal.
so if you're a couple no qualifying children $457.00 for federal 10% of that for state. $4.57 credit in 2010

So how much to the credit now 9% of federal? 8% ?

I'd reckon about 99% of all legislation is passed along party line voting, so why bother pointing it out this time? Editorializing just has to be part of every single news story these days, doesn't it?

clarity, to answer your question to sarah, the EIC is a big one that will hurt many of the working poor.
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Also I haven't shopped at Wal-Mart for 10+ years even though there aren't many other options where I live.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20...

Well at least I don't see the Koch Brothers on Obama's long list of donors who got jobs and stimilus money.

who's hurting the most right now from Obamanomics???
Poor and middle class.
Gas, food, housing, jobs, debt

Good post, fear. What's actually amazing is that how many of our children actually come away with a good education in spite of the overall larger system and all the limitations inherent is such a large beaurocracy. What it comes down to is the peple in the trenches, the teachers who are dedicated to trying to improve the lives of their students. Take them out of the equation and we're in trouble.

I am spending my money out of state so I do not have to give them any more tax money. As soon as I retire I am out of here.

I would like to see one positive suggestion for fixing WI's budget mess from all of those who gripe about the Republicans, big companies, etc. etc. All you folks do is whine & complain - If you have an idea speak up, otherwise quit griping. Doyle didn't do anything during his tenure, and neither did the dems when they controlled the legislature.

DaddyM- I will not buy into the argument that our education system has or is failing. You HAVE to take into account demographics. EVERYONE in this country is ENTITLED to a shot at an education, yes I said it the "E" word.
You and the rest that say our system is failing is looking at what as a barometer, standardized test scores? I am related to and know MANY teachers. Teachers are not failing these kids on a large part. Parents are failing their kids on a much larger scale. You cannot find articles on the internet that speaks to the realities of what so many teachers deal with on a daily basis in their classrooms. They simply cant win. If they teach in the bigger urban areas where we generally see kids that have almost no home life , no parenting, how on earth can they succeed by the scores on some test? Youll never sell me on that.

Teachers and schools NEED more funding and more personnel to deal with bigger and bigger problems that kids have stemming from home. You say stop throwing money at it, because its failing, I say taking funding away certainly wont solve anything either. Nor will vouchers given to private schools, whose all important test numbers are LOWER than public schools that cannot pick and choose their students. Ill quote clarity, what to do?
Maybe if parents would stop acting as if the schools are there to serve them and start taking part in their childs education, our system might look a little better to folks that want to look at public schools like some kind of balsnce sheet.

Unfortunately we cant(shouldnt) federally fund a program to teach parents to be parents, BTW this problem is NOT just poor families. I see a lot more families that are well to do that have kids that are not well parented at all. Time for parents to use common sense and care enough about their kids, make them a priority, it is NOT the rule anymore.

It's all good!
Thanks everyone for the great responses.

I love liberals
Real choice for ALL workers.

Clarity- Corporations also lobby for "free" trade laws that allow them to ship MILLIONS of jobs overseas as well, and allow them to bring back their cheap Chinese crap back to Wal mart to sell to all the sheep at "low-Prices". Maybe if we could close down these awful free/unfair trade deals until they benefit American WORKERS, then i would be ALL for a corporate tax cut. Until that day comes, and we start manufacturing here again, I am going to be for higher taxes on Comapnies, especially ousourcing ones. I think that the trade defecits we have may be the biggest problem this nation faces in the employment battle. NO republican led tax cut will make anything better here. As a matter of a fact since the Bush tax cuts the country is less about 8 million jobs! Btween the tax cuts and free-trade, no wonder we face high unemployment! Try also to remember that corporations are sitting on RECORD profits right now and NOT re-investing, why is that? Please no BS about uncertainty in the economy, there is more to stand on now than in 2008! They are a bunch of hoarders. Now tell me how MORE tax cuts will benefit the nation? How more free-trade deals will benefit the nation? I say if you are pro-free-trade you are anti-American worker. Tell me where I am wrong without the rhetoric repeating please. (here comes the labels!!) LOL

Ps Clarity, thanks for an honest rhetoric free discussion. I do enjoy our little "talks";)

@ Shermd -

The capture of bin Laden more than likely has more to do with political gain and less to do with skill:
http://www.corbettreport.com/osama-bin-l...
...Okay maybe it had something to do with skill -- the skill of Marfan syndrome:
http://dir.salon.com/people/feature/2001...
and this:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/rober...
.
The Department of Education is just one of many bureaucratic nightmares in the old USofA -- tossing more money its way will do nothing to curb the downward trend of our education style:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/art...
This is not a knock on teachers. This is a knock on a system.
The EPA is no different. Remember, it was the EPA (as a directive from the White House) that stated the air in downtown NYC was safe to breathe within days after 9/11:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076626/
What did their gun-jumping do? Only assert a higher chance that people would fall ill to the toxic dust swirling in the air over there:
http://www.villagevoice.com/2006-11-21/n...
...Maybe the EPA was lied to, as they claim. But with something as devastating and monumental as this, the last thing on my mind would have been, 'Okay, so how quickly can we get this place back open for business?'
Sorry to say, but with that kind of common sense-lacking attitude, I don't think the EPA has room to talk on what it deems good and bad for the environment and welfare of the people.

keysbrew - How can you believe that Walker is looking out for all workers?

'Walker equals real choice for ALL Wisconsin Workers.'

Given that fact that his Budget reduces the WI earned income credit while simultaneously reducing the capital gains tax for investments in Wisconsin to zero, I find your notion hard to accept.

Personally, I've never broken a sweat making money on my investments. It is by far one of the easiest ways to increase my income. Yet, those who qualify for the EIC do so by trading their hours for a wage. One that has been deemed too low to be enough for self sufficiency.

Bottom line, many of the measures taken to adjust the budget are little more than class warfare. Choices were made to allocate funds in such a way as to pit workers against each other while finding ways to pander to the people with the most money to invest.

The entire vision the Gov Walker has to create jobs in Wisconsin hinges on his ability to convince businesses to come here. Yet, simply eliminating taxes doesn't necessarily mean these businesses will be convinced to do so.

Profitability doesn't go up just because tax rates are lower.

I love Wisconsin!
Real choice for ALL workers

shermd71
I agree with you Kapanke is in trouble, but so are Hansen and Holperin
7/2 GOP - we will see.

I just think it is so funny that you liberals throw everything at us in the Prosser race and you lost that too and you still think you have the majority to turn things around.

I love liberals.
Walker equals real choice for ALL Wisconsin Workers.
Next step - right to work state.
Real rights not forced unions

Those who wonder where larger protest crowds have been this week clearly haven't been in Madison to be witness growth since Walkerville arrived. Shame, shame, shame on the GOP tyrannts and the media who so lightly dismiss the People's actions defending the honor and integrity of our once great state. (http://dane101.com/current/2011/06/15/ph... ) Battles are being lost in Walker's literal declaration of war on the people but the People WILL eventually prevail.

I'm glad the bill passed the assembly. Hopefully, it will pass in the Senate and then on to the governor for his signature. If and when the budget bill becomes law, maybe after that the Capitol square will go back to normal and all protesters will leave because there won't be anything for them to protest anymore.

Mayor Barrett ran a poor campaign. What if he ran a better one? Or if Russ Feingold ran against Mr. Hairclub for Men? Bet the results would NOT be what you Republicans would think, hey?

This country is run by corporations, period! Far right, left IMO is just fluff. We live in a Plutocratic Oligarchy and its getting worse. This nation is owned by MONEY, thats it, for me it is THAT simple. We govern by greed not by whats actually good for the whole of the citizenry!

Well, kaysbrew, I am GUARANTEEING that Mr. Kapanke in LaCrosse will get DESTROYED by Jennifer Schilling!! So there's the first domino to fall!! Olsen and Hopper eeked out wins in their last elections, but that was BEFORE they voted for this FARCE of a bill!! And enough signatures were gotten for 3 more Republicans!! So, yes, kaysbrew, WE WILL SEE!!

January 3, 2012 can't come quick enough for a sane person in this state!! The State Senate will already have flipped to the Democrats. That means one check and balance is in place. The second check and balance can be to see Mr. "Hairclub for Men" (Walker) squirm through a recall election that he will STRUGGLE to win, and then Mr. Knilans, Mrs. Loudenbeck, and the others that should NOT be our assembly people get voted out!! Oh yeah, Knilans alleged "amendment" is more Republican POSTURING to get the JEA to open their contract or look greedy to the public. Well, that will be the 4th time asked, and I would guess the 4th time to say "No thanks."

shermd71
We shall see.....

Hey grandy, where is personal responsibility in your party when you can GIVE AWAY money (tax breaks) to your buddies and create a FAKE financial crisis that "required" this BOGUS collective bargaining stripping bill? Didn't God/moron/Walker say to Dennis Kucinich that he did NOT run on stripping union rights and this was NOT a budget issue? Right!! So, DON'T tell us about personal responsibility because the Republicans know NOTHING about personal responsibility or HONESTY or MORALITY!!

Hmm, reading Kaysbrew's idiotic comments, and you would think that the ENTIRE state of Wisconsin was pro-Walker. Really? We'll see when he IS recalled!! And this anti-Obama sentiment? Really? Catching Bin Laden in 2 1/2 years compared to 7 1/2 for Bush? I DON'T AGREE!! And HOW can Obama get anything done when the Republicans BLOCK EVERYTHING he and the sensible party (the Democrats) want to do? So, let me get this straight........the Republicans want to de-fund Planned Parenthood (I can't believe ANY woman is a Republican!), de-fund A LARGE CHUNK of public education (good luck with that in federal country, by the way!), the EPA (we don't need clean air or water, just look at Ethiopia!), and ANY of the FEW remaining "rules" for Wall Street and the banks. WOW!! And the "sensible" party is the Republicans? Yea, I can see that!! Oh, and what about the elderly vote going to the Democrats when OUR GREAT (NOT) congressman, Paul Ryan, and his plan hits the scene? And WHERE ARE THE JOBS from Scott Walker? And in the 14 years of service (what a joke!) from Paul Ryan, WHAT THE HECK has he done for this district? I will answer that, NOTHING!! SO, this alleged wave of anti-Obama sentiment that will ripple over the country is a FARCE!! Even Donald Trump (the savior, NOT!) says the Republicans will LOSE the House of Representatives in 2012. Kind of like Scotty and the Republicans will lose the State Senate after the August recalls. Olsen, out. Kapanke should NEVER have won, he will be out!! And Hopper, out!! There's the flip!! Not counting the other 3 Republicans being recalled!! Also, how about the Republicans LEADING in this state in terms of MORALITY by running their FAKE Democrats to run in the July primaries!! That's pretty moralistic, hey?

Thoughts: On pay to play -- way both sides operate .. on federal side they say they will end earmarks but both sides continue to do it ... Why? to get reelected. On bringing up the collective bargaining bill again with 24 hours notice and passing it legally ... Why? Marty Biel the executive director of the states's largest public union went on record several weeks ago that they would challenge the law in court once it was passed legally. So having the Supreme Court rule saved a step since they are now challenging it in federal court. In terms of using bailout money from the federal government ... the country is going deeper and deeper in debt ... it is not free money ... just more we owe the Chinese. Riots in the streets in Greece because Greece in on the verge of default and trying to install austerity measures because they lived beyond their means for years and gave too much to the people who now expect it to continue. Portugal, Spain, Ireland expected to be next and eventually the United States. The far left and far right run this country and have lost their way ... No middle ground in congress anymore. Supposed to be a representative democracy (we vote for people to represent us). But given the choices right or left, I am guessing the politicians in Washington and Wisconsin do not represent about 80% of the people in the middle. Marco Rubio stated recently that politicians need to start putting the country first and their reelection campaigns second. I do not see that happening on either side. IMHO

well fear the self proclaimed non liberal - okay....
I have no doubt there will be enough signatures to recall Walker. Since that can't happen until 2012, we will be in the eye of a anti-Obama (Democrat) campaign that will highlight the good things that will be happening in Wisconsin and the difference Governors are making like Christy, and Walker in former blue states.

Anti-Obama shlacking equals Walker re-election in 2012 and much more in November.

Fair enough RAF on both points. My words were misused, I didnt mean ALL of them and you well know it. Hard to do political favors for EVERY single donor. He will try though! I know Michels construction gave and will recieve! While we cut HUGE amounts from public ed. Thats how contributions work, I scratch your back you scratch mine. Will you deny that the Governor is doing favors at all? Or is that just the way it goes Jim Doyle did it too BTW!!

fear I am as much republican as you are democrat...

KAYstew- keep telling yourself that! We shall see! What about Scotty? He will certainly face recall, if you look at all of the polling I would say he is in big trouble! What will the zombies do without their king?

fear your own words; "What about all of Scott Walkers campaign supporters now reaping the benefits of tax breaks and huge government contracts"

RAF you keep saying you are no republican! You most certainly are and thats okay, just stop hiding it! Cheesh!

OF COURSE IT WAS!!! I pointed out Prossers statement because of the recent election! The FACT of the matter is that the decision was NOT made by rule of law. Which MAriann Sumis decision WAS correct! The open meetings law WAS violated!
To Clarity's point- they have all the power, just bing the law back up and vote it in, LEGALLY! Dont violate meetings laws. My point was NOT that just republicans live on the supreme court, it was that PARTISANS DO! The fact that the court even took this up before going to appelate tells me all I need to know.
RAF- did I say ALL conributors? NO! But you certainly mad NO case that many certainly are reaping HUGE benefits in the form of state contracts! Is that not a form of corporate socialism? Cmon I expect more from you than that!

mouse, poor mouse clinging to Keith O.
KO the knocked out - too left for even MSNBC

HA, Good one. Keep trying

So was Knilans amendment in it? The one the Gazette keeps writing about that would allow the teacher's contract to be changed without voiding the whole thing?

mouse likes bathtub boy...go figure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcuqM1LEi...

fear - zombies are their words and their actions.

Map of voters who were engaged for the Supreme Court race and probably will be for the Recalls.

6/3 becomes 7/2 GOP

http://ericcompas.wordpress.com/2011/04/...

Didnt take long for another "liberal" tag to come out! The zombies are out in full force today.
Folks I am no democrat, unlike almost every person on this site I dont subscribe to partisan politics. You can certainly continue to do so , and if calling people liberals because they want to bargain for a better wage, then okay thats your choice. I think that is just what the corporate media wants!
Shrek , when you cahnge the tax code to only benefit certain groups its a giveaway, especially when it affects services. I will remind you the last time the national budget was BALANCED a thing that so many of you claim to want, income taxes for the wealthy were higher!! You can say we cant tax our way out of this, fine. But cutting taxes and fighting unfunded wars isnt doing it either. Bush tax cuts have driven the economy down, along with massive de regulation of financial institutions, driven by BOTH political parties. Some of you are just slaves to the crap you watch on TV,radio, or specific websites. Get your heads up , look around, do some research for gods sake it wont kill you to read alternative sources.
CBS,ABC,NBC,FOX all the big networks are all ideological and have certain interests in mind, ALL OF THEM!! When will you people come out of your Liberal vs Conservative hpnosis??? Its the people vs. corporations. Many of you are happy living in a plutocracy and enjoy political ads that LIE aboput every candidate. He with the most money wins. does that make you all happy? Let them keep lying to you. Call me whatever you like, I dont care. I am here to share my views, HONESTLY. Labels are for kindergarteners that need to find their crayons.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/061...

Here you go mouse, we don't put on pink dresses and chase reporters around the capitol or dress like zombies or blow horns in people's ears, or scream f-bombs at 14 year olds or send threatening letters to small Union Grove businesses. We vote and it looks like the 9 senators will be 7/2 GOP instead of 6/3 come July.

"What about all of Scott Walkers campaign supporters now reaping the benefits of tax breaks and huge government contracts"
-
Really? All of them? This after you just posted about thick rhetoric and no facts...pot meet kettle; seems to be the democrat way lately.

and yet Fear would have been happy if Kloppenburg got in. All 7 judges thought Sumi over reached/over stepped her limits but the 3 voted down knowing it didn't matter and simply saying they wanted to drag this on. I mean, more time to think it over.

polling on Walkers approval has been around 43%! polling on the collective bargaining bill is running 62% negative against the gov! Could someone link me to a poll that favors Scotty and his boys? Those are RASSMUSSEN numbers, the company that works DIRECTLY with Fox, so what does that tell you about polling numbers in favor of this?

more hyprocrisy from the left on big money and special deals.

http://gawker.com/5119039/google-execs-p...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/061...

Tax breaks are not the same as give-aways. These companies are not being given any money, the amount of taxes that they pay is reduced.

This makes sense, unless you look at it as a liberal. A liberal believes that everyones money belongs to the government and the government should use as much as it deems necessary and will let you keep the rest as a courtesy.

Fair enough clarity, but what polls are you looking at? All of the polls I see say that the overwhelming majority DONT want this type of radical change, especially when its not necessary. The whole "times like these" phrase is another one that wears thin on me, "times like these" were created by massive failure and greed in the private sector(Collaborated with by the politicians they bought in both parties). So why should middle class folks and millions of teachers and other folks pay the price nationwide?
What I get sick of is the use of catch phrases to try to make points that just arent legitamite. WE ARE NOT BROKE!!! THERE IS MONEY!!!! The announcementrs to the contrary are just absolute falsehoods. There is NO reason to make any huge changes to collective bargaining, public education and the like, maybe slight ones, but this is an ideological argument period, not a fiscal one. If that is the point you want to make I can at least say to you CLARITY," Yes you are right , the repubs won, so they get the spoils. Plus I have never seen a group come in and try so blatantly to fix the rules to keep themselves in power.
The funny thing is about your polling numbers, we will see this summer and next January how popular the Walker boys all are, hopefully we can get some checks and balances in, since the supreme court has proven to be a rubber stamp. BTW, Did anyone see David Prosser's opinion on this recent decision? I thought this was supposed to be a non-partisan court. We ALL know thats not true.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20...

fear-look to your own

Grandys , can you make any legit points without using cute catch phrases, (elite , socialist)? I hardly think anyone who needs medicare,medicaid, or a good public education is ELITE. I also think that none of the folks that you speak of are at all concerned with the governmental model of socialism. So what EXACTLY do you mean?
Are the large pharmeceutical corporations that accept billions in federal subsidies social elites? I would say they are much more qualified to fall into that category than poor folks that just want a part of the American dream! What about Big OIL? They get 4 billion a year in corporate welfare from the taxpayers, I never seem to hear you screaming socialism then? What about all of Scott Walkers campaign supporters now reaping the benefits of tax breaks and huge government contracts, is that not a form of socialism?
I could point out dozens of examples of your statements being hypocritical, but why waste the time? You kaystew and the rest of the zombies will just rattle off some more talking points that make you puff out your chest like you know what youre talking about, but have very little to back it up , other than labels handed to you by talk show hosts that aspouse your views.
I could go on for days,

the sad state of American government is shown in the vote tally. I find it hard to believe that there was neither a republican who didnt support the budget, or a democrat who did. Partisan politics suck, and needs to be removed from government.

another board thick on rhetoric, thin on facts. Seems to be the republican way now a days. 66 billion dollar budget with a three billion(over stated) dollar defecit. Give wealthy more take medicaid form por folks, destroy public ed , fund your political donors. You republicans always scream about "Chicago" politics, isnt that exactly whats going on here? Its like organized crime mentality. Just ask the railroad business owner that funneled donations into Walker's coffers to land a state railroad contract. Pay for play boys and girls, if you gave the Gov money he will reward you no matter what is good for all the people of the state.
BTW the "projected" defecit being too large but even using the numbers that they provide you still are talking about a 5% defecit, hardly makes us broke. This fearmongering crap gets lost on me. Glad to see it works on all of you though. This WILL lead to more poverty and home foreclosures in WI,GUARANTEED!

What a sham of a government we have in the White House

What a sham of a government we have in the state of Wisconsin!

Panama,
Can you please list the tax breaks that all these wealthy corporations are getting? I always hear the same thing about how these big bad corporations are getting all these tax breaks, but there are never any specifics.

My, my the ever pious grandys is attacking the protesters again. Yes grandys, only Republicans have the capacity to "understand their responsibilities of life". That must be why Fitzgerald made the claim, "Are we making tough choices? Absolutely."
Yes, the Republicans faced the hard choice of giving away millions in the form of tax breaks for their donor base or eliminating tax breaks for hard working, lower income families who use those extra dollars for necessities like food and clothing. Now all we have to do is wait for the handouts from the wealthy and investors and hope they spend their largess funded by the tax breaks to create "living wage" jobs.

i dont like the govna's approach, but he was voted in, he got the votes he needed and the court upheld everything. this is how the system works. i wish the federal govt would at least allow 'the people' to decide the fate of a relatively harmless plant...

"We're doing the job we were elected to do," Republican Assembly Majority Leader Scott Suder said. "We balanced the books and we did it without a $5 billion federal government bailout."

So, the best way to handle our budgets these days is to reject revenue for the sake of making 'difficult' cuts. Each and every taxpayer in this state pays Federal taxes. Yet, the legislature thinks it is better to keep that money out of the state for the sake of making sacrifices.