It is still poster material.

I don't believe in god. I don't understand why so many people care so much about who marries whom. But really, using the same logic as I've seen in this thread, ALL marriage should be banned. All of those heterosexuals getting married just for the tax breaks...ridiculous. Those hetero's obviously don't love each other! It's just for the tax breaks, right?. Homosexuality is a part of our society. Learn to deal and accept it. And try to see what your church- any church - really is...a huge racket developed solely to take your money. Almost all of the religions and books of those religions have very similar stories. They are all the same. There are several religions historically that say their "savior" was born on December 25th. Every religion is based off of some other religion or story and we can all get along just fine without donating our hard-earned money to a bunch of religious kooks, right? Right. Religion causes hatred, intolerance and wars. Much of which, minus wars, can be seen in the comments below. Wake up and open your eyes. Who cares? If you care so much about banning gay marriage, like Marcus Bachmann, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and ask why.

So GMA - its because we use BC? But thats been on the decline now its BCE before current era - if they don't use BC anymore does that mean you will follow the one true god - Thor?

Did you know your biblical god orders his troopers to spear babies by the thousands - I consider that to be morally wrong and not the proper way for civilized folks to behave. Where do you stand on infant spearing by the thousands?

Will the state legalize sodomy now ?

Thats fine gmaof3 you have every right to buuy it, I just dont. I believe in God, I just dont believe the Bible is anything more than a tool for some to use to have power over others. Tail between legs? I could point out unbelievable hypocricy in your storybook, you wouldnt take the time to read the links so I wont waste my time. Slavery is condoned in SEVERAL occasions in it, also stoning women for infidelity, so is a woman having to marry her rapist. Subservient women and slaves? I suppose if you are a white male the Bible works well for you. Otherwise, you might as well give up. Too many questionable parts for me to believe that it is the "word of god", especially when it comes to determining laws that discriminate against people based on who they choose to love.

Millenniums of history are based on a time table. Even modern scholars use this timetable.
"The birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Christ are the "turning points" in world history. It is fitting, therefore, that Jesus Christ is the separation of "old" and "new." BC was "before Christ" and since His birth, we have been living "in the year of our Lord." Philippians 2:10-11."
Link: http://www.gotquestions.org/BC-AD.html
So all you bible bashers can put your tails between your legs.... Call it what you will, but to this day, the bible is the timetable of humanity's history, and I take it at full value.

If the bible is a fairy tale why not follow Thor instead of Jesus? How do you determine which one exists independent of your mind?

Tax status is a policy decision made by elected bodies. Erzoner is correct about it being a preferential treatment - it has nothing to do with fairness.
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MBhammer, there are a lot of good things that have come from what you term a degradation.
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Fear, perhaps a little harsh for some to take, but I agree with your premise. You can be religious, believe in God, and consider much of the old testament as a fairy tale.

I love the Bible thumpers defining morality for everyone else , regardless of what you believe.
Stop force-feeding your beliefs from a mythical book on others. While I believe in a GOD I dont believe that the bible is the definitive word of God. Too much prejudice shown in that book for it to be the word of the all - powerful being. Sorry. You dont get to be the judge of everyone, because a book compiled over 2000 years ago by a bunch of sheepherders in the desrt eating peyote buttons. Hallucenogenic cactus eating doesnt mean they were talking to God, it means their sheep were talking to them. If we are to believe the Bible is the story of the world, then you believe that the world is 13,000 years old. Anyone buying that??

Ezoner: Really? Getting married is a lifestyle CHOICE. You CHOOSE to be married. WHy should you get off of paying higher taxes because of a choice?

I still find it interesting people are still discussing the degradation of America from it's original wholesomeness.

congrats ladies!

Sarah & others -- tax status for Married Couples filing jointly I believe is based upon an old standard where the husband or wife is the primary income and the other partner manages the home. There should be preferentional treatment in that case. When both are full time employees, one could argue that married couples are more likely to have a greater amount of disposible income and offer more in the way of buying power , therefore help to grow the economy and create jobs. Married people should -- based upon that agruement, recieve a better tax rate. But that was not the original intent as I have understood.

American -- I would be willing to accept it as a civil union, however, it was your description or justification previously that leads to the comparison. Pedofiles and even some of the kids indicate that there was consent. Legally, that consent is not recognised because of age. If you go to the pre-1973 definition or description of homosexualism, then you could also make the case that you cannot have consent between two homosexuals. But again, I would accept a civil union, as long as taxation was still based upon the status of single earner for this type of a union. Otherwise, it would be difficult to deterrmine which civil unions were based upon gaining the tax status vs those that were indeed homosexual unions.

Lastly, and I find this sad, what has been done to marriage by heterosexual couples...why is "marriage" worth protecting?

ezoner, "Based upon your basis - pedofilia, necrophilia, etc.. would all be accepable."
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If you are so ignorant as to compare homosexuality between two consenting adults to pedofilia or necrophilia...nothing can be done.
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As for marriage, my solution to that issue is the STATE should recognize Civil Unions. 2 guys, 2 girls, 1 guy & 1 girl...the STATE should recognize that as a Civil Union.
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The church should be in the business of marriage and if a church wants to marry 2 guys or 2 girls or 1 guy & 1 girl that is THEIR business. My marriage would remain a marriage according to the Catholic Church but the STATE would see it as a Civil Union.
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Marriage, being recognized by the state, is a violation of the constitution.
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The state can recognize the churches ability to perform a Civil Union...what the church calls a marriage.
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Nothing changes other than NO civil rights violations and NO violations of the constitution. Everyone SHOULD be happy.

gmaof3 writes: Where I draw the line is labeling a same sex partnership, a marriage. Call it whatever you want, but based on scripture, it is not a marriage.

Based on scripture, I don't believe that the majority of heterosexual couples that are 'married' today should be married. If you go on the scriptural edict that only a female virgin should be married, then that throws out a whacking chunk of married couples.
People who have been divorced? ANother big chunk.
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I wonder just how eager you are to apply biblical principles to your own marriage as you are to apply them to gay couples.
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THose of you that are preaching GOd as a reason to not ahem, 'validate' gay unions- please be aware of the american Patriarchy movement. THe Patrirchy movement seeks to strip women of their right to vote. They urge women to remain at home to be the property of their fathers until marriage. They openly preach against women attending college or ever having a job. Of course, they use scripture to advocate this. Those of you women who think that you should be allowed to own property, drive, etc... well, you are just as evil and hellbound as these gays.
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Remember, social acceptance of women voting isn't even 100 years old yet.

Ezoner... I think you and I are on the same page, more or less.
For other posters here... I guess the sticking point for me is validating same sex unions as a marriage. Sorry, but that just goes against everything I was brought up believing.
If there are legal issues that keep people from making medical decisions for someone designated by the patient to make those decisions, I see no problem with it.
Also, if you can name anyone to be your beneficiary, legally, I'm fine with that too.
Where I draw the line is labeling a same sex partnership, a marriage. Call it whatever you want, but based on scripture, it is not a marriage.
I'm old school, I can't accept it and feel the PC in this country have really crossed a big fat line!
You can pitch a fit if you want, peeps, but many of us will not be swayed by degenerate comments or degrading diatribe.
This story has 160+ comments. The Gazette got what they were looking for... Nuff said.

Ezoner writes:When they tread on validating their satus from a taxation perspective vs mine. They are then affecting me financially through changes in tax rates etc... I also take issue with adoption, but really take issue when they use sperm for children.

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Oddly enough, we agree on this. I don't think you should get special status on your tax rates just because you are in a legal contract with someone of different genitals either. I think you should pay the same tax rates as me. I am totally against married people such as yourself mocking my singularity by not pulling your weight taxwise.

As far as adoption of children, you should educate yourself on child outcomes. See, gay couples have to work really, really hard to have the honor of raising a child. You don;t get drunk and wake up at a sperm bank the next morning.

Children in gay families are wanted. And wanted children are well looked after, and well raised children. Almost all children in gay families go to college as opposed to 30% of straight families. Also, child abuse and neglect in gay families is almost nonexistent. Not to mention, they are dressed 200% more fabulously!

Heterosexual couples on the other hand, can produce kids whether they want them or not- the foster system is proof.

As far as using sperm for babies, what are you suggesting- they down it in a milkshake instead?

Housewife -- I am willing to allow them to be, but I hate when people try to make invalid or limited comparisons, or use justifications. Like they are born that way so its ok. Well guess what -- you can make the same arguement to people that have mental illness, pshycosis, necrophilia, pedofilia, name several. When do you say enough is enough and lets get real.

I draw the line at marriage. When they expect to gets a license that validates the union based upon a mental state, I draw that line. I am willing to leave them alone as long as what they are doing doesnt mock my union. When they tread on validating their satus from a taxation perspective vs mine. They are then affecting me financially through changes in tax rates etc... I also take issue with adoption, but really take issue when they use sperm for children. We could have along discussion on the degrading of social norms and behavoir. But there is a limit to what people will accept.

Ezoner- If we are to accept that gay people are born with a mental defect, what do you propose we do with them? I mean seriously, you can go and say they are defective all you want. But are you pushing it to the point where you think they should be institutionalized?

American Products -- your arguement is flawed. Based upon your basis - pedofilia, necrophilia, etc.. would all be acceptable. Morally its wrong. I agree with the pre-1973 psychiatric position that homosexuals have a pre-disposition caused by some mental defect to commit unaccptable, un-natural acts. Its a defect......simple.

totellthetruth said, "Immorality is utterly destroying our country."
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How many centuries has man been saying this about immorality -- and life goes on. It's not immorality you should worry about, but rather the fear and guilt instilled by religion that prevents people from experiencing a wholesome life.

"truth"
Do you really want to use pre-1973 as the example for anything considered healthy vs. unhealthy clinical mental health?
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Just think about what might have been 'healthy' considering men treatment of women...OR the general treatment of blacks?
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Psychiatry pre-1973....not a source I would EVER use.

When did you "moral" folks decide to be straight? Was it a tough decision - are you still tempted sometimes?

Why are there so many animal species that have also exibited same sex bonding?

"That's quite an interesting statement. The American Psychiatric Association doesn't classify homosexuality as a disease or disorder."
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Interesting fact. until 1973 Homosexuality was a clinical mental illness. What changed, special interest groups mostly from Russia and Europe pushed to have this removed. Initially only removed to develop an international standard in Psychological diagnosis, the omission of this diagnosis from the 1973 was for clinical continuity and is generally misquoted.
BTW if you are getting a tax break for something you should not be who pays for it.. I do. Immorality is utterly destroying our country.

I have always argued it is not a choice and it is simple to defend my opinion...
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How many of you, have had wonderful FRIENDS that you know would make an excellent partner but for whatever reason, you just didn't find that person attractive?
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I don't care if you are talking guy/guy, girl/guy or guy/girl...we DO NOT HAVE CONTROL OVER WHOM WE FIND ATTRACTIVE! at least I don't.
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How many have also wondered, "what the world does that "hot" person see in that "ugly" person?" Yet the two people ARE attracted to each other.
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I can't figure out what makes me think certain people are/aren't attractive. At times, life may have been MUCH easier if I could have controlled that...but I COULD NOT.
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I am willing to assume that it is the same for homosexual couples.
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Lastly, why do people care? I don't want to know and do not have an opinion of what any of my adult, consenting couples do in their "bedroom".
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Regarding marriage..... Perhaps this will allow the rate of divorce to DECREASE because heterosexuals don't seem to be really good at keeping their vows.

Congratulations, Amie and Kim! Brava!

The reality is that some are so ignorant to call the Bible the word of God, are the ones in need of psychiatry. Please provide proof of your book being the actual word of God, if you cant do so, then stop trying to legislate laws with it. You can have your beliefs, that is your right. BUT, it by no means gives you the right to legislate with a religious storybook.

Skippy scribbles: . If 2 women are lesbians, then why does one of them always resemble a man, of which they don't want to be with? Same is asked of homosexual men. Why is one of the men very feminine, and the other is not? It seems to me that it is much like a heterosexual relationship."

Because, skippy, they really ARE all heterosexuals at heart! Of course! They just need you with your extremely sharp critical thinking skills to come along, point this out to them, so they can run off and be straight! Silly gay people ALWAYS trying to be straight!

(Hint: one of the first things one can do when they are confident with their sexuality- gay ot het- is shed formerly strict gender roles. It's why we have silly women neuroscientists and weird male hairdressers!)

Ezoner said, "The reality is these people need a psycologist, not a marriage license."
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That's quite an interesting statement. The American Psychiatric Association doesn't classify homosexuality as a disease or disorder. Homophobia on the other hand... Oh my, Ezoner, I think you and MBHammer need some counseling.

And the selling of sickness continues.

poobah -- this is not majority rules -- thats if I even believe the numbers. Where are the numbers, who was sampled, and who was excluded. If you sample Madison WI. You might get a higher percentage. If you sample Roanoke VA, or anywhere in t he bible belt, you will get a much lower approval. SO the numbers really dont mean much. The reality is these people need a psycologist, not a marriage license.

Ezoner, more Americans now support same sex marriages than oppose it. That makes you a deviant. But don't worry, there are many progressive thinkers who don't hold that against you and still feel you should have the right to marry whoever you love.

TheMasterCommentor -- Your arguement holds no water. Homosexuality is NOT a race. It is a sexual prefernece. It is a sexual deviance. Whatever you may want to call it, it is not a race. Therefore, does not, and should not be a right to marriage.

And the Roman Empire grinds on. For now. The enforced inclusion of deviants in our culture is just another marker of how far we have sunk in the last fifty years or so.

LOVE THE SINNER, HATE THE SIN. Everyone in this country has the ability to have an opinion and dislike things. I do have a question though. If 2 women are lesbians, then why does one of them always resemble a man, of which they don't want to be with? Same is asked of homosexual men. Why is one of the men very feminine, and the other is not? It seems to me that it is much like a heterosexual relationship.

One thing is clear in all this. Those who decry the intolerance of those who offer opinions in opposition to the "lifestyle" of the subjects of this story will find themselves overflowing with intolerance for those who offer those contrary opinions.

A few years ago, actually about 50 years ago, the "free love" movement started with the idea that "love" is always good. Of course, they weren't talking about love, that was just a code word for sex. There has never been any prohibition, biblical or legal, against love. But there have always been prohibitions against sex. Not all sex of course. Only that which was promiscuous or perverted sex. Promiscuity, however, has become quite fashionable. In fact, many now insist that it normal and healthy (if you willfully ignore the explosion of STD's among other complications, that is). But even more to the point, sexual perversion has also been redefined. It used to include many things that our society now deems to be nothing more than harmless, "kinky" fun. A discussion about the harmful effects of perversion seems so pointless now. People don't want to hear it. They don't want to believe it.

Our history books tell us that the greatness of ancient Rome was destroyed from within. It wasn't the Visigoths, the Huns, the Gauls or any of the other ancient enemies that destroyed Rome. It was the decadence that the people of Rome embraced that brought its destruction. I wonder, if one could go back in time and listen in on a conversation in the Forum during those days, what would one hear? I am certain that one would hear the Romans defending their decadence as their freedom of choice in action. That they have been liberated from intolerance. That what they do is good and right and that the prudes who would interfere with their harmless practices are the real problem. In fact, I suspect that quite a few of the comments below (and following) could be heard almost verbatim (in Latin of course) in the Forum of old. It's funny how, though we all know that those who are ignorant of history are condemned to repeat it, how often history repeats itself anyway.

That progression of "sexual enlightenment" of the last 50 years reminds me of an anecdote about frogs. If you drop a frog into a pot of hot water, he'll just jump out again. But if you put that frog in the pot full of cold water, then turn up the heat, he'll stay there and slowly boil to death. Our society is heating up. There was acceptance of promiscuity, then the divorce rate exploded (imagine that!). Abortion was legalized. Adultery was decriminalized. Now no one's surprised when our children are wantonly promiscuous (friends with benefits etc.) or when marriage is viewed as optional and even disposable. So it's no surprise that gay marriage is becoming inevitable and celebrated. But things do seem to be getting hot!

@totellthetruth - Is interracial marriage "normal"? Is interracial marriage "right"? When I was growing up, my grandfather in Georgia would practically stroke out if he saw an interracial couple. Now it is accepted in our society. Fortunately, some parts of our society are able to see that gay people deserve the same basic rights that you and I have.

As far as your timeline of homosexuality & genetics post - thanks for the laugh. According to you, homosexuality has only existed for somewhere between 30 and 200 years? Ever hear of Alexander the Great, Socrates, Hadrian, Richard the Lionhearted, Pope Julius III, Michelangelo, Leonardo Da Vinci, Julius Ceaser, Pope Benedict IX, or Aristotle?

Gays have existed for as long as your god has made people.

totellthetruth said, "I was joking saying there is sin.."
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So you were serious when you said there is no sin? Good, you're starting to break free of the guilt and fear.

poobah, let me clarify me post, maybe you need to read a little further and a little slower to understand what is said... I was joking saying there is sin, no immorality (jokingly) and The bombers on 9/11 didn't believe they were committing a sin either... I was poking fun at you believing there is no sin or immorality. If a person gets to choose what their own morality is, there is no morality. Where do we drawn the line. Is murder immoral. Some Muslims believe that killing Christians and Jewish people is honorable, should we just allow that immoral behavior too? Where are you willing to draw the line. Obvious you have a no problem defining your own moral boundaries where the majority of people would not. There are some that believe that there is nothing wrong with cannibalism, are they right or wrong. Do they have a right to choose their own morality.
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As far as legal, yes these people have a right to do this. It is not illegal. There are many things that are wrong that are not illegal and lead to serious consequences. Not illegal to drink 1/2 gallon of vodka every day. Totally legal as long as you don't drive. Is it moral? Probably not, will it lead to consequences yes. Like it or not, homosexuality is not normal, it is not right. These two ladies great, God bless them. I hope they do well in their lives. They seem like nice people. They have a right to their opinion, and I have the right to mine, and poobah, you have the right to yours, but don't take MY TAXES to fund your immoral lifestyle.

MooShoo, When I denote a sickness in society I can speak to others what I have identified, I always will be able to do this, free speech, and it's beautiful.

Every person on this blog talking about the condemnmation of homosexuality is no doubt pulling all resources, quotes and findings from google searches of "what the bible says about homosexuality" or "is homosexuality wrong" or another "is homosexuality a choice?".... And of course you get some biased, church-inspired "word" about how all homosexuals will go to hell and how it's wrong and yadda yadda....

Let's just say, MY God tells me, despite whatever the bible's authors interpretted his gospel to say, that ALL God's creatures will go to heaven given they give themselves entirely to Him. He loves all of His people. When we all get to Heaven, I cannot WAIT to see the looks on all of your faces of the people you'll need to share OUR Heaven with! HAHAHAHA!

totellthetruth, if you give an idiot enough rope and they will hang themselves with it.
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Do you care to reconcile your two opposing opinions? This one from 4:06PM: "poobah, there is no such thing as sin.. you are right"
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And this one from 2:24PM: "homosexuality is a sin"

Spells, incantations, prayers and deliverances are not cures. While MBhammer and friends may believe and choose to judge the sin, let us not judge the sinner. There are also bright lines in law the true believers and haters should be aware of. Sexual preference is a protected class and violations of federal law protecting the civil rights of protected classes come with large penalties. Other acts may be criminal under a state hate crimes. So keep praying Hammer and friends, and good luch with that endeavor.

poobah, there is no such thing as sin.. you are right and there is no immorality. The bombers from September 11, didn't think what they were doing was wrong. Lifestyle is how you choose to live your life, how can that be wrong, you have a lifestyle too! People DO reverse and change their sexual preferences. When people go from straight to homosexual or homosexual to bi-sexual, they are changing out of their own free will. By the way, I have no guilt because I am free from guilt. I have no condemnation because I am free from condemnation. I have no fear period. Sorry, but I am 3 for 3.

poobah, Your cocoon life is being documented here for all to see, good luck.

totellthetruth said, "@poobah, homosexuality is a sin, which is a choice of a lifestyle and can be reversed. living with a heterosexual outside of marriage is a sin, which is a lifestyle and can be reversed"
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There is no such thing as sin. There is no such thing as a lifestyle. There is no such thing as reversing one's sexual preference. You're 0 for 3. How does it feel to give your money to the CHURCH in exchange for your daily dose of guilt and fear?

MBHammer said, "poobah, There are testimonies of deliverance from homosexuality. Try google and learn"
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And there are people who have had so much fear and guilt instilled in them by the CHURCH that they have internalized homophobia and hope against hope to not be homosexual. Given that terrible behavior by the CHURCH, I can understand why someone may "testify" they have been "reversed" but it is all a bunch of malarkey and you're just too ignorant to see it as such. I suggest you QUIT Googling as you surely have not learned anything about homosexuality from it.

MANNERS - You got it right on IRISS - well done.

MooShoo, I have heard of testimonies. I believe the cases.

@poobah, homosexuality is a sin, which is a choice of a lifestyle and can be reversed. living with a heterosexual outside of marriage is a sin, which is a lifestyle and can be reversed. APA claims now that homosexuality is genetic, which it is not.
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So let's say homosexuality is genetic. Using genetic principles and your 'scientific proof', homo sapiens is what at least 1 million years old. Why is it that we only see homosexuality prevalent in less than the last 0.02% of 'known time.' If this was a genetic predisposal why did we should have seen some prevalence over the past 10,000 years. We have not seen this until the last 30 years at best. The problem with the genetic theory is there is no science to back it up, just psycho-babble. There is no DNA evidence to support this ANYWHERE. Homosexuality is a personal choice. Anyone who thinks otherwise is intentionally neglecting science, which is also a choice.
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SarahB1, why would I post where I work... How is that relevant to this discussion at all?

MBhammer, do you have a close friend or relative who is a homosexual? What do they have to say about the chances for a successful deliverance?
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Do you personally know someone who has been "delivered from homosexuality". And what do you think the chances are they will backslide into sin again?

poobah, There are testimonies of deliverance from homosexuality. Try google and learn

LibertyBelle said, "totellthetruth, I agree that it's a choice. Just as if you liked blondes or tall people or brown eyes. It's a conscience choice that I don't think we can explain why."
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How can people be so ignorant? You don't even have a clue what your conscience is, do you? Liking brown eyes or blonde hair, men or women, one genre or music or another has absolutely NOTHING to do with your CONSCIENCE. Your ignorance about this is just overwhelming. And don't come back and say you meant to use the word CONSCIOUS instead of CONSCIENCE, because that doesn't work either! Think about what you said, if you meant to use CONSCIOUS instead of CONSCIENCE -- you said we make CONSCIOUS choices but we don't know why... That is not a CONSCIOUS choice!!!

totellthetruth said, "Are you absolutely serious that you think that APA should be a source for support that Homosexuality is genetic."
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See, there you go again. Unable to even comprehend what you read. I NEVER suggest that APA should be used as a source that homosexuality is genetic. I used it to dispute hammer's ignorant claim that homosexuality can be "reversed." The APA has taken very strong positions that it can not be "reversed" and that attempting to do so is very, very dangerous -- often with deadly consequences. Why do you think Michele Bachmann's husband lied and cajoled about his clinic trying to "reverse" gays until they found recordings to the opposite? Quit wasting our time.

totellthetruth, I agree that it's a choice. Just as if you liked blondes or tall people or brown eyes. It's a conscience choice that I don't think we can explain why. I just believe God created a man and a women to be fruitful and multiply.
Agree or disagree - that too is a conscience choice.

Who really cares what ppl do? How about everybody worries about themselves and what goes on in there life. Thats whats wrong with our world everybody is so judgemental....

Anyone that thinks people who endure two decades of dirty looks and torment because of who they love - and believing that love is a choice; needs a psychiatrist them self. The earth was flat, it was the center of the universe, mental retardation was caused by demon possession, etc. etc.
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Did you know that the early Christian church, prior to the twelfth century, was open to homosexuality? During the latter twelfth century, not just homosexuality, but all non-procreative forms of intercourse (sodomy, oral sex, etc.) were on the same level as homosexuality, and people began getting persecuted for them. Damn, I guess I'm on the same level as homosexuals because I enjoy foreplay. Funny thing though, I've never been looked down upon for it. I guess cleaning the pipes, being non-procreative, is right up on that list too - guess I'll be waking up with sticky briefs occasionally again. Funny how, according to the church, any sexuality outside of traditional intercourse is a sin, yet for some reason they are so focused on homosexuality.

Are you absolutely serious that you think that APA should be a source for support that Homosexuality is genetic. You need to remember that is was only 30 or so years ago (a drop in the bucket in civilized history huh?) that Homosexuality was considered A MENTAL ILLNESS that required serious treatment including institutionalization BASED ON the "science" of the time.
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Psychiatrists have historically been swayed by the desires of the masses and not science. Homosexuality is not genetic it is a choice. If it is genetic than would it be considered a genetic mutation? Wouldn't it then be EASILY seen on DNA? the genetic theory is very porous at best.

Who cares why and how someone became homosexual!?! I believe if you are happy with yourself, who cares who is not happy with it! Live YOUR life!

Haha, are you serious hammer? You're putting this crackpot up against 38,000 psychiatrists...

More than a singer. http://www.hopefortheheart.org/site/Page...

MBHammer, have you considered using a source like the American Psychiatric Association, a professional organization with over 38,000 members, instead of a singer?

June Hunt refers to homosexuality as a behavior, I agree. People have been delivered from that behavior.

Not at all. I think you would be extremely frustrated to learn that homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you would be frustrated to learn that global warming is anthropogenic. And I'm sure if you'd lived in the 1500's you would have been arguing that Earth was the center of the universe.

And I'm not catholic, poopah.

poobah, "perverted desire that homosexuality is a choice", interesting choice of words, don't you think?

gmaof3, when it comes to this issue, and many others, you are absolutely ignorant. How long did you search through study reports to find something that somewhat resembles your perverted desire that homosexuality is a choice. After all, when the CHURCH finally changes course on homosexuality (which they have started doing), they've lost one of their most powerful fundraising issues. And then who will you and your holler-for-the-dollar preacher friends start hating?

oneday... The ignorance is directly related to differing opinions. Yours is not mine, and mine is obviously not yours. Say what you want, but I believe most people believe that this is not how God designed us. "Go forth and procreate"... uh, ain't happening. Its the most basic of scripture. You will not be able to change those of us who believe in the bible.
Your rhetoric is just that, a way to keep anyone from living up to a morality that is based on natural physics.
I don't hate anyone who has decided for whatever reason, that this lifestyle is somehow acceptable. What I despise is society's lack of morals. That's it in a nutshell.
I'm no preacher and have never said I'm an angel, but some lines, I just won't cross, and our nation is in the toilet because of the immorality that we are faced with.
Just my opinion, of course... but I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

jstwndrn, are you done with your tantrum now?

gamaof3....that has to be the most ignorant post of the decade!

"...homosexual advocates will claim that homosexuality is genetic. NOT TRUE! Nobody is ‘born homosexual.’ In 1993, Dean Hamer of the National Cancer Institute claimed to have found a genetic link to homosexuality. Yet in 1999, the results of an intensive study by the University of Western Ontario found that Hamer was in error. The fact is that after all the attempts to show a genetic cause for homosexuality, no such genetic cause has been found. A British psychologist has had enormous success in providing “reorientation” therapy to homosexuals who want to change. This is not a surgery or a medical treatment, but it is effective. How could it be effective if the cause of homosexuality is physical? Well, it couldn’t be. Homosexuality is a choice, not a genetic predisposition."
http://contenderministries.org/articles/...

Oh, by the way, if you are more than 16 years old, please do everyone in your life a favor and seek professional help. Your attitude really, REALLY needs adjusting.

There are none so blind that will not see.

You've got it wrong again, poo. I didn't "say", I was quoting you. You are so confused that you contradict yourself and either can't or won't see it and acknowledge it. And, again, and even more so, you prove my assessment of you true. Very angry. Very sad.

But, thank-you for reminding me why I rarely post on this site. Folks like you aren't interested in a decent and adult discussion. You interact like a rude, spoiled child and someone who learned their conversation skills watching Beavis and Butthead. Makes a person wonder what sort of environment you come from. Well, anonymity breeds bravado, eh? Later, kiddo. I got better things to do than beat my head against your brick wall. Best wishes.

jstwndrn said, ""The Church" IS its members."
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Boy, they have you hoodwinked, don't they? The CHURCH is a few thousand elites who have enriched their lives while doing little more than instilling guilt and the fear of God in their members. Oh, and don't forget the Crusades and other countless hundreds of thousands of lives lost in the name of God -- all thanks to the CHURCH. If you are a member of the Catholic Church, you are not the CHURCH. You are a minion handing over your hard earned money to the CHURCH -- much like I hear tea baggers and other right wing lemmings complaining about how union workers hand over their hard earned money to the unions. At least the union workers have gotten something in return besides guilt and fear. Getting close to time for Saturday evening Mass, isn't it?

jstwndrn said, "Second, your claim: "I NEVER presumed to speak for ANYONE but MYSELF". Followed by your suggestion: "Learn how to comprehend what you've read or quit wasting our time with your posts." OUR time, poo? Is there more than one of you or are you...speaking for others?"
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Yes, in the case of your lack of reading comprehension skills I was speaking for myself and others and you again wasted our time.

poo: First, thank-you for your kind suggestion. I'll do my best. As, hopefully, will you. But please don't take it upon yourself to dictate.

Second, your claim: "I NEVER presumed to speak for ANYONE but MYSELF". Followed by your suggestion: "Learn how to comprehend what you've read or quit wasting our time with your posts." OUR time, poo? Is there more than one of you or are you...speaking for others?

Third: Your reply only confirms my original assessment of your posts. Very angry. Very biased. You obviously have a bone to pick with the Catholic Church.

Fourth: As for comprehending? Let me try one more time. As I tried to explain (sigh), the CHURCH, as you stress it, is made up of the millions of people who are a part of it. Yes, poo, it has its upper crust and policy makers. But they are not "the Church", per se. "The Church" IS its members. Who, imagine this, don't always agree 100% with the edicts of the policy makers. Try, if you will, to realize there are practicing, actively worshiping, GAY Catholics. You do them no service when you bash the very organization they grew up in and are loyal to. Please try to open your mind and grasp what they already have, which is another view than the one you now have set so firmly in your mind. They have risen above and focused on something higher than "official policy". And that's the bottom line.

Lastly: Believe it or not, it's not ALWAYS about religion. People outside of religion have instincts, opinions, feelings and judgments. If someone has an instinctual assessment, a gut feeling, it is just as valid as what Amie and Liz feel, even if it is in conflict with their feelings and tendencies. If it works one way, then it also must work the other. Or everything we all are saying is not worth the time and space being used to say it.

Have a good weekend, folks, Peace, out.

evansvillehousewife, you win my post of the day award. What a great post.

By actions (and words as in this comment board) you WILL know others. Congratulations to Amie and Liz for having such a loving and committed relationship which makes our local community and our entire nation, more stable and enduring. Best wishes to you both.

(This comment was accepted by the site staff)

Article published = slow news day.

Some of you people just don't get it ! There is no doubt in my WORLD,that you have dealings everyday with a gay person just like you have with a straight one.I have yet to see one person in life walking around with a sign announcing their sexual life.Gay/lesbians come from EVERY walk of life,income level,profession....What gives anyone the right to say they don't have the same rights and liberties of the rest of us ?? Ridiculous !!

Actually, libertybelle, your "god" also creates intersex humans.

These are children born with genitals that appear one way but they are actually gentically another. It's been proven... I'm not talking transgender here, I am talking a medical condition, so much so that Ambiguous Genitalia clinics exist all over the nation. Even UW.

Iriss, homosexuality does not destroy society. It is, and always has been, part of society in one way or another.

Society will always exist as long as there are people. What will not pervade is the traditional power structure- white european men. Now we are in a society where fifty years ago women like Amie and Liz would have been quietly killed or institutionalized. Now they have the power to live thier lives the way they want, and that angers you.

So... what would YOU do with YOUR life... the only one you have... if you did not have tyrannical structure in power of your brain??

@Iriss my link shows quotes directly from the Bible, the book you use as an excuse to hate. You use it as an argument yet only choose the texts/passages you want. Facts are facts.

MooShoo, Not a hater. Do a poll and you will find the percentages are in my favor. I can tell you are a person who says another is hating when they disagree with you.

Quite the contrary Donna, I do not judge the lifestyles of others. Please point out my words of hate expressed in comments below. I glady point out the intolerance of others. If you think that shows hate, sobeit.

Moo..most of the hate seems to come from you and your fellow posters. Just because someone doesn't agree with someone's life style doesn't mean they hate them. We all have different opinions and we should all just respect a difference in opinion. Surely, you don't approve of or agree with the way some people live but that doesn't mean you hate them.

Who appointed you arbiter of common sense MBhammer? The only commonality shared here is you and a bunch of other haters had comments removed.

You go ladies! Be fruitful and multiply! ;/

LibertyBellem, well stated and common sense.

So many people...so much misinformation. First - the Bible does condemn homosexual sexual relationships...and heterosexual sexual relationships outside of marriage. If society wants to "marry" 2 men or 2 women, so be it. It will not be a marriage in the way God created it and it will not "legitimize" the homosexual act as far as the Bible is concerned.

----

That said, it is completely inconsistent for anyone to criticize the homosexual couples and at the same time "wink" at heterosexual couples living together outside of marriage. It is the same type of sin. Singling out the homosexual couple is just plain wrong.

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Furthermore, it is also inconsistent for the Christian to expect the non-christian to live by the same moral standards. Sinners sin. That is our nature. One persons sin may be lying, another may be greed, another may be a sexual sin (homo- or hetero-). We are still called to love and gently correct. That does not mean we condone or accept the sin.

---

Lastly- there is no sin in "loving" (agape, philia) another person. To treat another with love and respect is, indeed, a great virtue. The sin enters when that "love" (eros) is between 2 of the same gender. (look up the Greek words because they do a much better job differentiating between types of love...English is too limited).

God CREATED ALL of us - including Adam and Eve. It is so sad that some of the people here are making negative comments toward two people that they may not know. I would not be surprised to find out that some of those same people are racists, but attend church every Sunday. These two fine ladies are also wonderful people.

I have a friend who is Muslim, gay, and a Democrat. I'll bet Iriss would stroke out if he had to be in the same room.

It is also a toy store (of sorts).
;-)

MBHammer, anyone who starts with "no offense" means to offend. I find you offensive.

God created Adam and Eve - a male and female

@Iriss - Twelve years after Denmark legalized gay marriage, Islamic terroristes flew two airplanes into the World Trade Center. Was 9/11 caused by gay marriage, too?

Similarly, just because out of wedlock births rose after gay marriage was legalized does not mean that the increase was CAUSED by gay marriage.

And, when you get right down to it, just how WOULD gay marriage cause out of wedlock births? By the nature of the relationship, gay and lesbian couples can not (by themselves) produce offspring - whether married or not. Does your source explain the cause behind this rise in births?

Hmmm...I am thinking I just got the reply to my question.

Wow, did someone run out of their supply of psychotropics?

@Iriss sorry the last link didn't work properly. This one should. http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyC...

@Iriss one more thing. Go to this site, read it, and check your Bible. It DOES say these things. Do you own a Canadian??? http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyC......

@Iriss Where are you getting your facts from? Just because you say it or read it doesn't mean it's true. I would encourage you to find the source, check it validity and then post again. Otherwise...you're to be taken with a grain of salt...and spewing a lot of hatred.

You are correct.
Bigotry is not your biggest problem.

I am saddened to live in a world, and call myself a Christian, if I am identified as a bigot, like the ones on here claim to be. I will be honest, as I read each and every comment on here, I teared up at the absolute hatred and closed-mindedness of people that claim to follow the Word of God. I can't believe that while every other scripture can be interpretted many ways and churchgoers are quick to figure out a way to apply it to their lifestyle, that this is one they can only interpret to mean hating and unaccepting, and likely burning at the stake if it was legal. Being gay/lesbian does not corrupt your children, it teaches them tolerance, acceptance, and beauty of all people. Being gay/lesbian does not ruin the sanctity of marriage anymore than being Black and allowing African Americans into our country/communities to live as we whites live, ruins the pride and sanctity of celebrating ones heritage and ethnicity as a white person. I pray my children are able to learn acceptance, kindness, and love for people all over the spectrum. I pray that my children are comfortable enough to come to me one day and tell me that they are homosexual, if they are, and know that no matter where our society is with acceptance or condemnation, that I will love them and their chosen partner unconditionally and in the Word of God.

Call it what you want: scripture, God's Word, wrongness, immorality, intolerance....

I call it one thing: HATE

And for those of you that do, shame on you, and I hope YOU'RE prepared for what YOU will face when you reach your judgement day. I can feel nothing but peace in my heart, head and soul for accepting ALL of GOD's creatures regardless of any attribute they possess. I love God and His beautiful people.... ALL of them.

What is the % of divorce in those gay marriages? Men and women have messed that up for years. Just saying;)

Congratulations Amie and Liz on the longevity of your relationship. It's too bad that people have posted some nasty or unnecessary comments on here.

I don't recall reading anywhere in the article that the LGBT community in Janesville was asking for acceptance. The article talks about social change. The reality is...society is changing.

According to the Gazette why is it okay for us to comment on sexual orientation but not race? In the articles on the disturbances at the state fair not once does it mention that the mobs were blacks and not only fighting with each other but large gangs of blacks were attacking whites etc. The Journal Sentinel covered the whole story with comments and all. It is what it is. The Urban League did a great job on tv discussing the situation as did the Milw Police Chief.

The number of same-sex couples is undoubtedly much higher than reported because an estimated 10 percent of the population is gay or lesbian.
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Thank you gazette for posting made up stats from an untrusted source. 10% are gay or lesbian is WAY overstated. 1/2 of 1 percent is much more like it for our area. 10% in openly homosexual communities.
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I am opposed to people who are involved in immoral lifestyles (based on the beliefs of the founding fathers of our country) getting benefits because of their immoral lifestyles. As individuals, they have individual rights, but married couple rights belong to married couples. period.

Amie & Liz are wonderful people with big hearts and love each other dearly. For you haters, if you loved someone as much as these two did, the world would be a better place. Just because you read the Bible or go to church doesn't make you a good person. In my book, action speaks louder than words and those 2 women have proven themselves. Good on them for having the courage to do this.

i will agree with the statement,that im sick of hearing,who cares?i sure dont,and if you do,then you should find something else to occupy your time with,lol.everyday someone is talking about this crap,im so sick of hearing,as others are to,but dont say anything.if this is how one decides to live their life,let them,its none of our business,if it dont involve us,and for those of you who do live this lifestyle,please quit shoving it down everyones throats,maybe if you werent like a flashing billboard all the time about your rites,others wouldnt bother you so much.you got what you wanted,now leave people alone.

Amen poobah
&
Amen Dwight
Praise the Lord Jesus for enlightened folks such as you. There's still hope for humanity yet. Much love.

It is not about gender it is about people that find someone they are compatible with and understand unconditional love regardless of what you think or say. The lifestyle that one chooses is a part of a life that is theirs and if you are so uncomfortable with it IMO maybe you need to soul search yourself.I happen to know these two and am proud to call them my friends.

Love knows no boundaries. All love is equal. You were born this way. Wake up Janesville, no one has to hide anymore, you who oppose love, are the ones who people will stare at now. There is no conversation, no fight, because love will always find a way.

Live and let live. Let "couples" be together and allow them to be happy. Same sex parteners should be treated as equals. Simple as that.

DwightKSchrute, thank you for such a wonderful and thoughtful post. It was one of the most eloquent and heart-felt posts I've ever read.

jstwndrn said, "poobah: You are over the top and obviously very angry about something. How can you presume to speak for so many with your claims and extreme generalizations? Your bashing of the Catholic church speaks for itself, as you fail to realize that when you falsely generalize and attack the Church, you attack the very people who ARE the church."
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First of all, you are 100% incorrect by saying when a person attacks the church (and note I capitalized CHURCH in my post) they are in no way attacking the members. I was absolutely attacking the policy makers -- and let's face it. The Catholic CHURCH is a very elitist organization where policy is set at the very top echelons of power.
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Secondly, I NEVER presumed to speak for ANYONE but MYSELF.
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Learn how to comprehend what you've read or quit wasting our time with your posts.

xlsi....Thats what folks said when the 1964 Civil Rights Act was passed. Wake up, my friend. Its the 21st Century.

"Shoving it down your throat."
Really?
Flip open that Gazette.... oh looky here in the community section! MARRIAGES. All heterosexual marriages. How about that.
Births! Wow. THey list a male father, female mother. Hmmm.
I suggest that the Gazette respect xl's feelings and stop shoving these relationships down his/her throat.

While you're at it, stop running those anniversary pics of those couples married 50 or 60 years. XL is sick people's lifestyles shoved down his throat...

If you dont like the media shoot, then GIVE them equal rights. Make it law, let them get married, and you wont be forced to read stories about these issues. Maybe you shouldnt read a newspaper website if you dont like social issues.

xl-Push it down your throat? How does it affect you one Iota? You read the story , no one forced you to. If you believe in equal protection under the law, this should be no problem for you. I think the whole "push it down our throats" argument is just dumb. Heterosexuals have been shoving it down their throats for centuries, while oppressing their chances to marry the person they love. That is shoving it "down their throats". To me that is code for HOMOPHOBIC. What are you so afraid of, that you will turn gay?

I have HUGE respect for Dwight, JL, and crunch munch. Posters I almost always disagree with, excellent posts!
Lets start with Catholicism. The Catholic church preaches that homosexuality is a sin, yet protects gay, child molesting priests for DECADES!! Talk about the definition of hyposcricy. "You must remain cellabit,.....unless you see it fit to abuse an altar boy?" This is the reason I left the church.
My problem with people using scripture is that it is a book written by HUMANS that "claimed" to have God talking to them. I would also like to point out that the current version of the Bible that so many subcribe to as ,"The word of God" was assembled by cardinals and bishops in the 1500s! Several Gospels were purposely left out because of their specific stories of Christ teaching that a person need not attend a church to be admitted into the Kingdom of God. I think that the Bible is a great book, but FAR from the actual "Word of God".
Funny how God has changed over the centuries isnt it? The bible advocates for the ownership of slaves, and the subserviance of women to their husbands. I tell you that God sure has become diverse as the centuries pass, hasnt he/she/it? Anyone brave enough can look around the internet for hypocricy in the Bible, and understand that using it as some kind of moral barometer, especially in this case is just plain WRONG!!

personally i don't give a rats butt what you do in your PRIVATE life but don't push it down our throats and expect all of us to be all happy happy joy joy about it. If they would just stop with all the media shoot, people might be more tolerant. but no they just keep pushing and pushing. Just stop and let them live the way they want. i just don't want to hear about it anymore

Whats Right for you may not be right for others!

Its not what "is" but whats believed.

Life will NEVER be equal until we learn to except others difference.

Who's to say ones right and anther is wrong. To each as it's own.

GAY MARRIAGES- 2 people committed for life.
STRAIGHT MARRIAGES- 2 people committed for life.

Its not our job to judge! check the Bible.

2 PEOPLE COMMITTED FOR LIFE-
should be able to count on each other financially, raising a family healthcare, life insurance... without marriage this is often impossible.

JUST BECAUSE YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE SAME SEX, WHY SHOULD THIS BE TAKEN AWAY.

If you where in a same sex relationship you where the only on that could work,your significant other had 3 kids, and no other parent to care for them

ALLOWING GAY MARRIAGES/FAMILIES- gives that one other person the ability to be financially responsible, possible assess to healthcare care, life insurance for the whole family and rights to both partners in all legal aspect
"just like those in straight marriages"

NOT ALLOWING GAY MARRIAGES-Lets find some more government programs to support those children that could be being taken care of by a partner that is gay "but where not going to allow that because we don't believe in gay marriage.

GIVE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CARE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHER
OR
GET YOUR CHECKBOOK OUT AND CARE FOR THEM YOURSELVES.

It always amazes me when people claim to be oh so tolerant of others, while at the same time telling those people THEY don't happen to agree with to keep their lips zipped, and then go blissfully on their way, patting themselves on the back about how open-minded they are, all the while failing to realize what they have just done. How does that work, Moo? Public=Open Forum=Discussion.

poobah: You are over the top and obviously very angry about something. How can you presume to speak for so many with your claims and extreme generalizations? Your bashing of the Catholic church speaks for itself, as you fail to realize that when you falsely generalize and attack the Church, you attack the very people who ARE the church. And I reiterate, I have never heard mention of it ONCE, let alone "repeatedly and selectively reciting anti-gay passages". Perhaps you're thinking of the Baptists? LOL! Seriously, I don't know where you are getting your info, (do you attend Mass frequently?) but it is definitely and outlandishly off-base.

crunch-munch, you also. To say "The only people who condemn LGBTs are religious people." and "Atheists the world over support LGBTs" are absurd statements that I'm certain you can't come close to proving. While religion/Christian bashing may be a popular and easy target, jumping to the conclusion and then stating that anyone who doesn't agree with homosexuality is a vile, lazy, lemming-brained, no-good God-lover isn't any better than those lovely people who go around spouting garbage like "God hates fags".

I actually don't now and never have considered myself "religious". But, I have always tried to nurture my spiritual side, along with the physical and mental, and have gone through periods in my life where I attended church often, seldom and not at all. And not just Catholic, but several different denominations. I haven't even stated that I am against homosexuality. I just made statements about choices and my experience and first-hand knowledge of the thousands of sermon subjects I have heard over the years.

I congratulate any couple who has learned to compromise, make sacrifices, and continue to love one another for a 20 year relationship. Amie and Liz have lasted longer than lots of Christian heterosexual and/or married couples.

Well said cidzerda.
*
I love the sinner, and I celebrate the union of Amie and Liz. For those of you who choose to hate the sin, save it for your private prayer rather express it in a public forum. That is the way I choose to approach the subject with my tolerant Christian beliefs.

My views have evolved over the years. Now, I just say meh, none of my business.

These are clearly the bravest women in Janesville--or any other place in Rock County. They had to know that their appearance in the paper/on the website would cause people comment about their lifestyles, and even say nasty things about them. But they agreed to be in the story anyway.

We try pretty hard to take those nasty comments down quickly.

Of course, it's a lot easier to say nasty things when you're anonymous, and don't have your name and face on the website.

Snarkily yours,

Catherine W. Idzerda, Gazette reporter,

dni79: Knock or ring the doorbell, my friend. It's your choice. However, you misinterpret what I call choice. And someone else insisting that you do something is hardly the same as making the decision yourself, is it?
I'm simply saying that not all homosexual relationships are based on a person feeling that they have no other choice. Which, actually has a rather negative connotation and wouldn't be a very pleasant thing in itself, would it? One thing I am saying is that I know for a fact that relationships can be and are based on many different factors, be they heterosexual, homosexual or otherwise. It might be the result of experimentation, or finding love, trust and honesty, or maybe early orientation by an older influence in one's life, etc. Or it may be as simple as if it feels good, do it and who cares what anyone thinks?
And how do we explain people who switch back and forth from hetero to homo? Which is the real tendency and which is the false? Or how about someone who feels they have no choice but to have sex with children? I'm sure you don't say we are to be accepting of that because that is how those people just happen to be wired.

......and JK.

Well said, Dwight.

For those of you quoting scripture...this is a must read. http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyC...

Serious question for those citing scripture: I can see how you might interpret it to rule out gay male relationships, but where does it ban lesbian relationships?

And addressing the point that someone has never heard their priest say to hate the sin, but love the sinner... By them repeatedly and selectively reciting anti-gay passages (while interestingly enough ignoring other passages such as children who curse their parents shall be killed) and then on the other hand condemning violence, they are in fact suggesting to the congregation they should hate the sin and not the sinner. But we know from the numbers of dead and injured gay people killed by people indoctrinated with religious zeal by the church that this is just a clever cover for homophobic behavior on a grand scale. I admire those members who can think for themselves and rise above the indoctrination. But unfortunately, many never do.

analertcitizen said, "Poobah- You said "...and organizations like the Catholic Church..."
Whoa whoa whoa- I am a Catholic and very much support Gay and lesbian rights and marriage. Please don't condemn my religion and more than you expect people to condemn yours."
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Sorry, I will contintue to condemn the Catholic CHURCH until they change their insane anti-gay positions that have cost the lives of thousands of gay people. You can not possibly try to equate someone condemning a person with someone condemning an organization. Organizations wholly adapt their own policies and positions. Sexuality is not a choice. So until the Catholic CHURCH and other organizations change their anti-gay rhetoric that has taken so many lives of gay people, I will not stop condemning them.

Maybe Michelle Bachman's husband can "cure" them.

officerfriendly: they are hanging out with jim morrison somewhere in the desert

i love that newt gingrich can...well be newt gingrich...but two people of the same sex in love crosses a morality line. thats a sad thought process really.

jstwndrn, I'm just going to knock on your door tomorrow and insist that you engage in relationship with whichever sex you are not attracted to. That's what you're calling "choice." Think it through. Go ahead, imagine it, I promise it won't really come true. You gotta do that, cause all of sudden for some reason we can't fathom (we're pretending for a moment), that's the way you have to be.

Of course, you have a choice. You may choose to do as you are instructed. Or you may choose to live shunned by society.

How's that "everybody has a choice" thingy workin' out for ya now?

I vote republican 80% of the time, I believe in Jesus Christ, I'm a straight male and I used to be strongly anti-gay marriage - that has since changed. The biggest fallacy I had to overcome was the lifestyle "choice"...or so I once believed. It's not a "choice" and people need to get past that. Another thing Christians need to do is look beyond the homophobic indoctrination that many denominations preach, and as Christians (believers in Christ and his teachings), understand that love and acceptance were his main teachings. Hating the way someone was born, the way someone was created, does not jive with the teachings of Christ. Want to quote the Old Testament? We are no longer bound by the old "written law"...
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"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6. We are to 'serve in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the written law'; is discrimination serving the spirit?
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I challenge each and every person that considers them self a "Christ"ian to look deeply into teachings of Christ are realize how much you're being indoctrinated with the "old law" and not the new way of living in the Spirit.
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You may say it's not natural? Every feeling and emotion we have as humans is natural unless directly changed by ingesting a mind-altering substance. Is it so hard to believe that a chromosome or DNA strand or something natural dictates a persons sexual preference?
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Take an honest look around. It wasn't all that long ago when spirits and demons were thought to cause illnesses we can now explain with science. Do you think it will be that much longer until we can pinpoint a part of the human DNA that dictates our sexual preferences?

Everyone in life has choices, to say otherwise is less than accurate, no matter what the subject, including sexual preference. While the intensity of preference may vary from person to person, the choice can be and is made due to other factors than an overwhelming or irresistible urge to be with a person of the same sex...or not.
Also, I have attended Mass at "the Catholic Church" for many, many years and in several different locations and I have yet to hear any priest anywhere preach "hate the sin...". In fact one church I attended had an openly homosexual choir director, whose "spouse" attended Mass also, and one had a homosexual staff member.
So, poobah, whilst thou knockest others for their narrow-minded attitudes, perhaps thou dost practice the same? Just food for thought.
Lastly, what exactly is so "gay" about the homosexual lifestyle, anyway? Gee, is that really what they meant by the term "The Gay Old Nineties" and "they'll have a gay old time" in the Flintstones theme song? Just wonderin'.

I don't tell anyone how to live. Just that the lifestyle is not mine, nor is it something I grasp. Live and let live is a good way to put it. I'm in no position to judge... this is a forum for opinions. I just threw mine out there. Beat me up if you choose, but I am as entitled to my opinion, as you are, yours.
dini79... you would be pulling from old testament scripture... those rituals were halted after the death and resurrection of Christ. Its called the new testament.
Just giving you some fyi...

Thanks dini-What happens in Rome usually stays in Rome. It doesn't ususally reach across the ocean. There are a lot of things I don't agree with but I am still Catholic.

analertcitizen, good for you, and I mean that with sincerity. But you do know that your beliefs go against papal dictum. On the other hand, surely we can find better ways to express ourselves about organized religions, true enough.

Congratulations on the longevity of your committed relationship, Amie and Liz. I have a sense of what you've encountered over the years, and I think you may have a lot to teach other couples (of any stripe) about how to keep it together. Thanks for letting us share in your story.

Now ... lol ... ok, show me the part in scripture where it says same-sex love is wrong, and I'll show you the ones that tell you not to shave, nor handle the skin of a dead pig, that you must stone to death he who works on the sabbath ...

Whatever. Live and let live as far as I'm concerned does apply to Christians, even the loud-mouthed bigoted ones who tick off Jesus with their bigotry. Just check your bigotry at the door, please. Do unto others and all. We're not all Christians in the world (I realize this is coming as a terrible shock to some, but it has been true since before Christ, you know) and not all Christians share the same beliefs.

I don't run around telling you what to believe. How about you don't tell these women that their biology is wrong.

You know what's funny about this situation. The people that are against gays are also probably the same people that think they stand for freedom. HAHA yea freedom for you to controll people. Now you see how they're no differnt then the big gov. lefties that they dislike.
And on the flip side. I wonder how good it feels to know you will never be able to live a natural life. A life where you and your soul mate create your future generation with a part of you. Instead they will go shopping on the internet for a good place to buy a kid. Just like I do for my car. I wonder what you will tell your kid when they ask you why you picked them. "Well the place we bought you from came up on google adds first."

Poobah- You said "...and organizations like the Catholic Church..."
Whoa whoa whoa- I am a Catholic and very much support Gay and lesbian rights and marriage. Please don't condemn my religion and more than you expect people to condemn yours.

packersfan1... this is such a guarded topic. But, I do agree with you. I can't despise a person for who they are but the choices they make will draw all sorts of attention in the religious sector. For churches to actually condone homosexuality, as far as I am concerned, means they do not consider the scriptures, as the Word of God.
I'm not going to get into an argument with any one over this. The scriptures are very clear about homosexuality, and I can not possibly add any comment over and above what I believe.
Let's just say I will continue to disagree with gays' and lesbians' lifestyles as I morally can not accept it.
I don't judge them, as it is not my job.
Poobah, we don't "NEED' to stop doing anything. WE haven't changed OUR beliefs, society has. By the way, "hate the sin, not the sinner" IS scriptural.

What could possibly be morally wrong about love?

packersfan1...Would you apply your "morally right" philosophy to Muslims? And by the way, you are not the #1 Packer fan, I am. I have a sticker on my car that says so. And don't tell me....you're a Republican.

packersfan1 said, "I'm not condemning them as people. I'm condemning the lifestyle."
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You are indeed condemning them as people and you need to quit hiding behind that thinly veiled excuse for doing it. It is not a lifestyle, neither are opposite sex marriages. They are both loving relationships. By calling it a lifestyle, it sounds like you think their sexuality is a choice they have made and it is not. Not any more than a straight person chooses their sexuality. I'm sick and tired of people like you, and organizations like the Catholic Church, preaching to "hate the sin, not the sinner."
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Hopefully, sooner than later, articles like this won't be necessary but I applaud the Gazette and Gina Duwe for helping to increase awareness and acceptance.

Just because it may be "socially acceptable" doesn't make it morally right. I'm not condemning them as people. I'm condemning the lifestyle. The philosophy "live and let live" should also apply to Christians, but I know it doesn't. Sounds like a double-standard to me.

It's about time. Live and let live.