UrbanAchiever... well, actually it DOES! That is equivalent to 7 classrooms with 25 students.

I can speak of one school that I know of in Janesville that, over the last 9 years, has reduced its teaching staff by at least 30% due to student enrollment. Some of it was due to a shift of students when the ELL programs were spread throughout the district instead of concentrated in a few buildings, but that didn't account for everything. In those 9 years, the building has lost a math specialist, reading specialist, 7 classroom teachers, 3-4 special area teachers, and several aides and secretaries. The JSD has been trimming its staff for a long time. Now it's chopping.

I'd like to know the teacher numbers from 2002-03 when there were 10,720 students in K-12 where as 2010-11 numbers are 9,656 for K-12 plus 646 for early childhood and P4J which wasn't available in 02-03 thats a 1064 lose of students in K-12. So my question would be. Has the School Board been delaying layoffs for 8years and it's biting them in the behind or do all the factors in this article set the stage for the layoffs???

All of the factors listed in the article were either controllable by or foreseeable by the school board. Just because there happened to be more than one doesn't absolve the board from 100% responsibility for the situation they've created for themselves. For those that want the district run like a business, try demanding accountability from its leadership. That's how the rest of us operate.

gmaof3:
I'll try to explain how losing 175 students does not yield 7 less teachers.
The JSD has ~10,000 students spread among 17 schools, not including charter schools. That averages about 10 students per school, or 2-3 per grade per school. There are multiple teachers per grade, so maybe there's one less student per class (ONLY 26 instead of 27! dang rich teachers!)
If all 175 students came from one school, of course there'd be reductions in staff for that school. In case you're not aware, a school is not a business and comparisons between the two are not universal. It has nothing to do with the scourge you call unions. If the JSD was one giant one-room school house, you'd have a case for reduction due to losing 175 students. But it's not, so please stop pointing all of your fingers at one group, the teachers.

But if we have LESS students... why are we trying to maintain staff? Really? In the real business world, when "purchasing of product" falls off, so does the employee ratio. This is supply and demand. With reduced staff... yes, there is a period of time where they will take on additional responsibilities and workload, until additional employees are warranted.
THIS my friends, is the difference between Union companies and the companies that respond to the "ebb and flow" of business.

Good idea LOCO

mrbread = check this out:

""Another bit of good news: The [enrollment] drop won’t make another hole in the district’s 2010-11 budget, which the school board will discuss when it meets Tuesday.

Pennington said the state-aid formula, which uses enrollment to determine funding, has a hold-harmless clause for districts with declining enrollment. That, combined with the fact that Pennington planned for an enrollment decline when he set up the budget, means the enrollment drop will not affect the bottom line."

Janesville Gazette - Sometime in October/September 2010

er 175/25 = 7 or 7 * 60k = 420,000 oops.

Let's do some math. If the average teacher compensation package is 60k, and enrollment decreased 175 students, assuming an ideal ratio of 25 students per teacher, that accounts for 360,000 of the budget shortfall, of which the district would get 2.1 million per the article in state aid. It seems as though there is a lot of money between the two numbers. Additionally, the failure of the school board to account for the loss in federal aid as well as enrollment differences translates into the laying off of 100+ teachers, at around 60k per, thats 6 million dollars. If the increase in teacher pay is equal to 1.66 million as stated last year during negotiations, there is a severe accounting problem with either schultz or the school board. For them to blam the teachers and take out their own inefficiences at managing a district on the children is completeley inexcusable. Quit repeating the republican talking points like we're broke, and use the math given above, and you find the fault clearly lies in the board's decisions. This is not a teacher problem, its a management problem. The teachers, on a daily basis perform their work and according to recent test results, perform it well. The school board is now asking the public for ideas to balance the budget? Seriously? Really? Do your job, and I'm sure the rest of us, including teachers, will do ours to the BEST of our ability. Take responsibility for your own actions JSD.

When calling someone an idiot, it's advisable to spell correctly.

I noticed that there are no facts to support your contention that older teachers are better teachers. In fact, the head of the Chicago Public Schools recently said if it was up to him, he'd hire all new young teachers and have them rotate out in a few years because they bring energy to the job. Clearly, your platitudes have been lost on him, but I've no doubt you know more than he about how to run a school district.

Regardless, nobody answers my posts because there's no way to justify taking $100k per teacher from classroom instructional budgets to pay for health retirement benefits that absolutely nobody else anywhere gets.

http://storyofstuff.org/citizensunited/

Sure, yada, but will they turn out on election day?

I will keep it short and simple - a college dropout of a famous Milwaukee university is the one responsible for ALL of this. He will be recalled. As of April 18th - 181,490 people have signed the petition for the recall of Scott Walker.
unitedwisconsin.com

Why do teachers need contracts?

Mrbread is correct. Veteran workers in any field are more likely better at their job. With experience grows wisdom. Best and brightest does not necessarily mean young and spry.

The teachers are the union; the union is the teachers; it is one and the same.
How interesting that I don't hear the word "thug" when referring to police unions, police administrator unions, firefighter unions, custodial unions, NFL player's unions, paraprofessional unions...

N24,
If only it were that simple. I am not heavily involved in the union but I have a friend that is a union President for another district. I actually came at him with the same point you just made. Why not take a cut to save jobs?
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He told me the problem is there is never, EVER, a guarantee that the job cuts won't just happen the next year. The union has to represent the majority of its members. To take huge cuts to avoid job loss this year..only to watch the jobs be elimated a year later is a problem.
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The union doesn't like or enjoy this part of the game but it is a reality. It is a FACT that unions have given up $$ to save jobs only to watch those jobs go with no $$ increase the next year.
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Nobody, NOBODY likes what is happening to education in Janesville. Not one single person is celebrating where the district is at. Union members I talk to are scrambling to find ways to help but it is difficult. Every teacher I know is in it for the kids but also must remember their own responsibilities...their own family.
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If it were as easy as take a 8% cut and save jobs it would be done. Unfortunately the question has to be asked...what about next year? What about me?
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Personally, despite avoiding this years cuts...I think...I plan on looking elsewhere because I don't believe for a minute i have long-term security. I pray daily for those that will soon be out of work and for the great students of Janesville.
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I am so tired of the misdirected comments - the unions is there to protect worker's rights and negotiate wages, hours, and working conditions. The school board decided to cut jobs. The board, the board, the board, NOT the union. There are 800+ teachers working for the district, the union is protecting as many as they can. Also - the union IS the 800+ (now 700+) membership - NOT a few people who hold positions. The union (teachers) vote on decisions; they were NOT given the choice to vote on layoffs. In fact, whether or not the union(teachers) would have voted to open the contract did NOT guarantee any jobs saved, working conditions maintained, and everything else that was bargained for in GOOD FAITH.
QUIT MAKING UP LIES please.

Noleft, you are assuming that as you get older, you get dimmer and worse? No one answers your post because your an idiot. I'm sure you are much dumber and worse than you were when you were younger.

Whew! Still no mention of $100k+ health retirement benefits for teachers that come right out of instructional budgets. Things must not be that bad.

Just proof that union bosses are more than willing to throw their best and brightest young teachers onto the bread line and impair instructional quality in order to get their gold-plated benefits.

Shameful.

THIS NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED AT THE STATE LEVEL:
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"The school board, citing the poor local economy, took pains to keep tax increases to a minimum . The state imposes a cap that holds taxes down, but the board went even lower.
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“I think we were looking more at the present than out toward the future,” Severson said. “... We were trying to stave off some hardship for the people of the district.”
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When a district taxes less than the maximum and then spends less, the state reduces aid in subsequent years, essentially penalizing schools for being frugal.
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Most districts tax to the max as a matter of course.
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No one has analyzed exactly what the district’s finances would be today if Janesville had taxed to the max."

For those of you that think that this about a lack of tax revenue vs a spending problem, consider the following:
*******
If Washington wanted to hoist tax rates to actually cover spending, the top tier rate would go from 35 to 88 percent; the middle tier from 25 to 63 percent and the lowest from 10 to 25 percent.
*******
For those of you that don't understand, this means that in order to pay for our current spending levels, everyone will have to pay more than twice as much as they currently pay.
*******
We have a serious spending problem with government at all levels.

“In hindsight, we probably should have been cutting some staff all along,”
I agree... Keeping staff at the present level is ridiculous. The other union argument I don't quite get is "working conditions". Really? What working conditions could a teacher possibly be upset about?
Seriously, I really want to know. Teachers do not have to deal with radiation or coal mine dust or any life threatening situation. But I truly DO want to know what the unions consider working conditions. I just do not understand this part. Enlighten me on the hazardous conditions they are trying to avoid?

Fear, I have read many of your posts on several threads. I am wondering your take on the current school board. I believe you said that you have attended one or more school board meetings. Is this true? If so, what are your thoughts on the current board? Teacher/student friendly? Business friendly? Caught between a rock and a hard place due to Walker's constraints? Or did the previous boards do this to the current board? Other observations?

Point taken, fear. I apologize if I offended or made a poor analogy. If I thought he was pulling the strings for all of this, then he could be in the same book as Hitler. I think any sane person agrees this is SO much bigger and more calculated than just from Walker, but he is scary!! And the checks and balances do NOT exist until the state senate is turned back to the Democrats. The problem is, will they screw it up too?

Agree with you shermd, but the hitler references arent winning any arguements. Your points are well thought out and well recieved, but the Nazi/hitler references dont work for me, even though I have nothing to say but bad about these clowns. Why dont we just call them clowns? Because thats the intelligence level.
Try not to compare this horrible man to the worst man. Walker may be stupid and destroying the state but Hitler was responsible for the slaughter of 8 million people!

Also, three Republican senators are about to be recalled. So far, with 3+ weeks left, NOT ONE Democratic senator has been. Does that say ANYTHING to you Kool-Aid drinkers about the CORRUPTION in this current administration? There may be one Democratic senator recalled when this is over, but three? And maybe none of them lose in a recall election in their district or area. Just the fact that the Democrats (the real greedy ones, yeah right!!) have enough preliminary signatures for THREE should tell you how the people feel about this GARBAGE!!

Wow, between fearandrhetoric and mr bread, I couldn't have said it ANY better myself!! All of the anti-Obama folks said I was "drinkin' the Kool-Aid" during the health care debate. Well, who is NOW "drinkin' the Kool-Aid" through this blame game against unions and teachers? Seems like the same people that accused me of this last year!! If our governor (though I would NEVER vote for him) is introduced by Sensenbrenner to the Oversight Committee last week as "one of the most polarizing figures in politics," what does that TRULY say about the man? That he is DIVIDING this state, dividing families, and bringing CORRUPT policies that MANY of you believe is "about time we have some fiscal sanity to our government!" REALLY? Tell me ONE thing Governor Hitler has done to achieve this? But the unions and teachers caused all of this in Wisconsin? NOT!!

I would also like to remind the folks that got rewarded during the BOOMS of the private sector. The teachers were restricted by the QEO. So essentially they couldnt get raises during good times and have to take cuts during bad, all because the Corrupted States of America let corporations dupe everyone into the great recession.
Please dont talk about giving back when times are tough. Teachers certainly didnt get rewarded when times were good, and they are NOT responsible for Health insurance corporations JACKING RATES to put us into this crisis. How greedy can they be to expect good benefits for their families? Some of you people boggle my mind.

I agree with fear , and with all those hand-outs where are the jobs? They just want to keep everyone who makes a modest income arguing so they can keep getting multi-million dollar bonuses and record profits. Smoke and mirrors folks. It boggles my mind why anyone in the middle to low class would believe these swindlers.

So unions and teachers are the reason for the economy tanking? Hmmm, I would point another way:
Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.
Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Sorry but if the teachers had opened their contract they would have been subject to much more than just Financial concessions. Tenure and working conditions may be a thing of the past, since the non-fiscal despair bill passed. Now we may be in a situation where the most highly qualified teachers may be pushed out due to financial reasons. Where we can hire 2 first year teachers and push out a wonderfully committed experienced teacher of 10 years plus a masters degree. That is where we are headed, merit pay is a dishonest talking point. The goal is to make all schools into private for profit enterprise, which will push all of the best educators out and downgrade the education in this country.
To the poster that said conservatives havent been bashing teachers, are you kidding? Read every single blog, there are DOZENS of examples on every one of them of folks doing EXACTLY what the other poster said. Give me a break! That is called denial, maybe you havent been doing it , but MANY that agree with you politically certainly do.
I am still curious about this HUGE jump in numbers reported by the Gaz from September 25 to now. A 5 million dollar adjustment seems pretty significant to me, where are these numbers coming from?
I have also recieved correspondenece via private email from Sodemann when he feels attacked, I responded and asked him to NOT contact me any further as I have zero interest in what he may have to offer privately. I wont call him a coward, because I believe it takes some kind of courage to do what he does, but I think we can all be in agreement that certain members of the board are NOT serving in the interest of whats best for the distric, more the large group of people that want their taxes to go down, even though the tax burden right now is lower than it has been since the 1950's!

Santa Fe, I don't understand any of it, it seems like there is some hidden motivation in all of this, and I do not subscribe to conspiracy theories at all. But the storty changes every couple weeks, however the one constant is blaming teachers for the mess. I'll bet not one of them has been asked their opinion about the budget untill this year, when the people entrusted to ensure it is in order screwed up. And now it seems as though the public is trying the teachers for the money ills of the state of wisconsin when they were the ones in the classroom working, while the people entrusted with balancing the budget weren't balancing the D@#n budget! Its infuriating to listen to.

mrbread, you really seem to understand the issues. I hope everyone reads your comments

I also don't agree on the comment about the article being fair. If you add up money from enrollment and stimulus money, That represents 6.9 million alone. How could the school board not foresee this? Are they blind? The numbers were right in front of them. If the Walker Plan adds another 4-5 million to that? Why are we blaming teachers that NEGOTIATED their contract if the cost of their contract represents less than 20% of the deficit? And what is the number we "need" why does it change every few weeks? It seems like the JSD is cutting a lot more teachers than their "greedy" contract dictates. What is really happening at the board meetings?

Her serdan, do a poll of those teachers being laid off and see what the spread is for your proclamation. I would bet you would be SURPRISED with the results!! And they would NOT be what you thought!!

This was a great piece of journalism! Frank told it like it is without a hint of how HE personally stands on the subject. Great job in saying that the "emperor has no clothes on".
My conclusion is the problem could have been lessened considerably if the teachers would have reopened their contract. It was in THEIR interest as well. I suspect they stuck to their guns in principle even though over 60 teachers will be searching the teaching field only to find other teachers looking also. They won’t come back to teaching because of bitterness… and I suspect they won’t join a union again either?

Well said, Mr. Bread.

Hearmyvoice and shrek,

No, not well said. Sorry, but the JEA made a proposal. That's what collective bargaining means. BOTH sides made a proposal. No one held a gun to the heads of the school board and said they had to agree to what they did. Or am I wrong? Thought not. Also, people in education want to get paid. Don't you? Would you do your job without getting paid? Like you and others suggested that I meant it's "all about the money, not the kids." Really? Because teachers are getting wealthy on the public's dime? You truly hate teachers and public employees (garbage collectors, police, fire, and other union members) that much? Wow! I hope your trash collection stops. We'll all see how you and others deal with that. Oh, right, I know, you will just take it to the dump that would close or have to reduce their hours because of lack of funding. I love how everyone else has taken their lumps. Now all of the public employees should join us in taking their lumps. I did NOT wish for GM or ANYONE else to lose their jobs or have their pay cut or their benefits slashed when this all started. Certainly, teachers and other public employees did NOT cause ALL of these budget problems in Janesville or Wisconsin!! So, why is the public sector the new kid to get whipped in public? Because you all are drinking the kool-aid. From where? Walker, Palin, the right wing, and like I stated in an earlier post, Fox News. And why, please tell me why Walker can give MORE tax breaks to corporations that are NOT creating new jobs (where are those new jobs being created by the way?) like Wal-Mart, McDonald's, Menard's, and others like them? They would create those minimum wage jobs NO MATTER IF THEY RECEIVED THE TAX BREAKS OR NOT!!

Shrek, what is the financial reality? Do you know, or are you a parrot repeating talking points like "we're broke" or "open for business". An earlier poster noted that last year the JSD reported the wage "deficit" was 1.6 mill, now it is many times that number? I think the problem is, the school board, as well as our governor aren't giving us the fiscal reality of the situation or the "tools" to solve it. You cannot argue for fiscal responsibility at the same time you dole out tax gifts for the wealthy, period. Who knows the reality anymore. If the "tools" is a ten percent wage cut, why don't you offer up your own tools in the form of 10 percent of your wage?

Shrek = Very well said!

Athome,
Actually very little of what you state has happened.
Most of the conservative posters and commentators have said the following:

Teachers pay is equivalent to the private sector, but benefit costs are excessive. We need to reign in these benefit costs by either forcing the employee to pay a portion or go to a lower cost plan. We need to eliminate collective bargaining to ensure that these excessive costs are not negotiated back in by future administrations.

You think it is noble for a teacher to go to work, I think it is financial in nature. Teaching is a job, just as any other profession. Someone may love their job, but ultimately they are there for the paycheck.

Quit trying to portray us as evil just because we do not see eye to eye on this subject. If you took the time to look at the financial reality of the situation, you would understand.

Budget fight an unexpected civics lesson for teachers

They have been called lazy and greedy on blogs and website comment boards.
Their motives and commitment to their profession have been questioned.
They have been told they're paid too much money for their nine-month contracts, that their health insurance is too generous and that they need to pay more toward their retirement.
In recent months, Wisconsin's public school teachers have found themselves at the epicenter of a widespread fight over public-sector workers' earnings, their ability to bargain and the burden they pose to taxpayers and local governments.
And yet, they feel an expectation to shrug off the criticism and enthusiastically report for work every day, where they are entrusted to teach even their critics' children, and meet an ever-growing set of demands on their performance.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/1...

Enrollment dropped by 175 over 2 years, resulting in a loss of state aid. Where does state aid come from??
Union contracts called for more pay increase..relief could come in 2013-2014 when union contracts run out.

shermd71 = If it was known before the contract was signed that the school distric was in the red, than I would put equal blame on both the JEA and the School Board. As for the lawyers not wanting to open the contract, well what can I say!
Also, the surronding communities were hit just as hard as Janesville when GM,Lear and the other business folded. To think other wise is foolish.
As for taking a pay cut I not only took an 18 month pay freeze but six months later I took a 5% pay cut to keep my job. Once the company was on solid footing again we giving a big bonus and the raises were reinstated.
Business 101, when times are good Reward. If times are bad Tighten Your Belt.
Also, as I see it evey time they raise my property taxes to cover excess spending I consider that a bailout.
Don't get me wrong I believe in good education and quality teachers. I have 11 grandchildren in the Wisconsin school system and I will continue to do what I can to make sure they being taught by quality teachers.
But I still stand by my comments below.

So it's okay for the market to determine the price increase of your favorite cleaning product,(which puts more money in share holders pockets), but not okay as it concerns rewarding those who provide services to your community? Yes, sometimes it is about money, otherwise who would work any job? Yes, it still is about the kids the teachers work with...but why should they have to pay to work with them?

Why did our unions manage to get raises for their members even though the school board knew it meant a budget problem ahead? Because the unions have a lot of influence with some school board members. And as they continue to prove with their refusal to offer concessions as they said they would, when it comes to a choice between what's best for our children or what's best for the unions, the unions choose what's best for their own interests every time. So much for the union's oft repeated mantras "It's all about the kids", and "It's not the money".

"Tax to the max". Now's there's a slogan near and dear to the hearts of every public employee, except the ones who are elected. "Tax to the max" assures an ever increasing cash flow which is also known as "More fuel for the gravy train". Certainly, those who benefit from ever increasing tax rates are all for "Tax to the max". It's a great policy, from their point of view. It insulates them from these occasional recessions that the cash cows, also known as tax payers, suffer through. Since the cash cows have to pay up or loose their homes, they almost always pay up, even if it means going hungry frequently. I wonder, if the average public service union member were confronted with taxpayers who have no bread, would they say "Let them eat cake"?

It sure does...it sure does.

Can not believe they are just figuring out why we are in a deficit. All the things listed in the article are what bloggers have been saying all along. They don't want to be hung by their toenails but they hung themselves a long time ago. Poor decision making and they know it. Keep pointing the finger and don't take any of the blame for the choices they made and voted on.

jv93: Suggesting that teachers should not be worried about their income and only about the students is like suggesting that GM workers should have only been worried about building cars. Like it or not, at some point money comes into play no matter what the profession is.

I find it laughable that out of one side of your mouth you talk with such nobility about valuing education and then the other side you finally admit the union refusing to reopen the contract was just about money! I love it.

So its not about kids? Its about $5000?

And by theway, hearmyvoice, declining enrollment and losing GM along with my comments about taxing to the max have NOT occurred to the same degree in those surrounding communities (Milton, Edgerton, Evansville, and even Beloit lately) as they have in Janesville. Also, those four districts do NOT have anti-teacher, anti-student board members like Janesville has or has had (Sodemann, Feldt now, Severson) to vote "no" to everything that would help teachers and students. I am sorry, but if schools are to be run like a business (which is 100% WRONG!), then successful businesses put money back into them to create more jobs or more efficient practices, or to identify the problems and fix them. How is cutting positions, cutting funding, and saying education is NOT that important to the students of Janesville and Wisconsin the right thing? It's NOT!! Are there problems in education? Sure. Just like there was in banking (we bailed them out), Wall Street (we bailed them out too!), and in most businesses. Where's the education bail out? The stimulus was a 2-year band aid for a bigger problem. If property taxes aren't the way to fund schools, that's fine. How then? A sales tax increase? Just shut down schools and home-school every child? Cause for some reason, "tax" is worse than ANY four-letter word nowadays.

No, hearmyvoice, my Fox News comment was NOT out of left field. I do not understand blaming the JEA when NO ONE forced the school board to agree to a 4-year contract! Yes, the vote was 6-3, but did anyone force those 6 board members to vote "yes?" I don't think so. And why would ANYONE who will take an enormous financial hit (more than $5000 per year on average) agree to re-open the contract? Would you if your job was asked to do this, but your attorney said no on 3 separate occasions? Again, I think not. For all of the educators losing their jobs, this is WRONG!! But I do NOT understand, hearmyvoice, how the JEA created this mess? Can you please explain your logic? And the Fox News comment comes from zero logic!! They have none, and your blame on the JEA for this mess has no logic or merit either!!

antignorance= Thank you for your responses they were very informative.

shermd71= Despite what you may think I do understand the logic of tax to the max. But I do not understand the logic of as stated in the artical "The board probably was going to raise taxes" as the normal solution.
Maybe just maybe Janesville should take some pages from the Milton,Edgerton,Evansville and even Beloit's book on how to balance their budget. And as far as the Fox News comment my response is: Wow that was really out in left field!

wando, I too sent questions/concerns about my wife's job to him thru this portal, and I too have been ignored by him.

Off topic, but has Bill Sodemann ever sent anyone else on here a message to their e-mail. After I spoke badly of him in one of the blogs last week I had an email from him (via the gazette) within minutes. I responded and asked him a few questions and he never got back to me. That just goes to show how important the public is to Bill; if you speak negatively about him on the gazette blogs he'll respond immediately, but if you actually pose a few legitimate questions as a tax payer in the city of Janesville he will not respond. Has anyone else had a similar experience with our coward of a school board president?

Yes, hearmyvoice, as has been stated by SEVERAL posts since mine, if Janesville is not taxed to the max, Janesville LOSES state aid each year it does this. Which means, over the past 10+ years (as I stated in my post), Janesville LOSES more and more state aid because you people do NOT understand this BASIC concept!! Again, it's NOT my concept, it's a fact that I am trying to underscore as where to lay the blame. And it's OBVIOUS that the school board and its dysfunctional members over the past 10+ years (especially the current/outgoing ones) have put Janesville into this mess. I get it. People don't want to pay more in property taxes. Well, this is what you get then. Crappy schools where people will bail to Milton, Edgerton, Evansville, and EVEN Beloit!! Cutting middle school sports may seem reasonable to all of you, but this will pit all other districts that have middle school sports against Janesville. Take a guess where these families will send their children and their tax dollars? Exactly!! But, I don't want to pay more in taxes (even after the past 10 years has NOT been close to taxing to the max!!) You people truly need to watch less Fox News and dig for some actual facts before spewing your lies!!

Mismangement of funds, lack of utilization of technology to reduce the use of paper,and poor education in Janesville are all contributing factors to the budget crisis. If for once the focus was on academia versus sports and extra curriculars maybe then parents would keep their kids in Janesville schools, keeping the revenue in the district.

If people would use commonsense once in a while especially in areas of finance we wouldn't have all these problems! If you don't have the revenue to pay the expenses you don't keep spending.

There has been a good point made about the teacher’s contracts costing the district $6 million more than anticipated. This is simply a lie. The current contract was a huge decrease in costs over previous contracts. The JEA went into negotiations with the intent of asking for a zero percent raise, but changing working conditions. The school board and their school administration advisors chose to pay the teachers rather than change the work rules. The board listened to the advice given to them by the people they hired to advice them. They were fully aware of the choice and its ramifications. So what does this contract cost in comparison to other contracts? 2008/9 a zero percent increase, so zero, 2009/10 a pay increase of 1.5% for a $685,000 increase. The school board made no effective changes in contract language and only gave an average increase of .75%. For the board this was a pretty good agreement. It saved the tax payers an increase of property taxes and continued the administrations work rules that they felt they needed. However, this was a four year contract, so the other years must be taken into account, but other factors must also be taken into account as well. I will comment on the next two years in another post, so stay tuned:)

No, I was not advocating for taxing to the max, I was simply pointing out how we got to a $13 million dollar deficit. To avoid the deficit the board should have made cuts to the budget if they wanted a zero percent tax increase. Using the fund 10 only balanced a budget they were unwilling to pay for. In an effort to give everyone what they wanted without paying for it. They should have stood up and said we need to balance the budget without a tax increase and without using the fund 10, this was clearly their intent. They could have slowly eased the budget downward; this would have saved the taxpayers money and made the school district more efficient. This year they cut 50 teachers due to enrollment, if each teacher has a class of 30 (I know this is high) that would have meant we have lost 1500 students this year. We haven’t lost 1500 over the last 10 years, so why were there 50 cut this year? The elimination of classes with small enrollment is a big part of the answer. The school board could have slowly cut limited enrollment classes over the space of years. This would have been politically unpopular so they created this year’s deficit to force them to make the decision. Yes, I believe some of the board members were smart enough to see this coming and plot this course out. Instead they sat back and waited for the school budget to implode and say I told you so.

Why is this deficit being blamed on the contract? The other districts in the area are/were better off then Janesville is. What is missing here is the shake down of the taxpayers with the add ons of the schools and, in my opinion, the possible illegal doings that have and will not be addressed during the constructions. The rumor that is going around too, is that there was $30 million in the funds and now it is down to about $10 million.

Does anyone else find it interesting that there is a statewide school board lobbyist? Wonder what that pays? What a joke!

I have to say that the other realitybytes is a total idiot with no understanding of how finances work. The school district should always tax to the max or close because then they get more money from the state government. It's like getting a good rate of interest on your investment. The truth is that for too long people in this town have relied on the tit of GM and not had to worry about education. Education is the great equalizer! The better the education, the more opportunities are available. It is no longer acceptable to do mediocre in school because you know GM is there and you can get a good wage. All you former GM workers that sit around all day watching Fox News and then try to get in a few of their talking points are the biggest hypocrites anywhere. YOU ARE ALL SOCIALISTS!! The funny part is that you can't even see that.

Way to dig Sluggo, waiting to hear some responses to the hypocracy. What a bunch of ignoramuses. So Let me get this straight, the Gaz in THIS particular article is saying that salaries and benefits will cost the district :"The increase in salaries and benefits for all employees next year is $3.86 million. Health insurance is expected to increase another $2.6 million" So thats 6.4 Million dollars in Mr Scultz's article today. In September of 2010 the EXACT same contract was going to cost 1.66 million? How does that number inflate by almost 5 million dollars in less than 7 months? Something just doesnt seem right here. Do we have Kathy Nicklaus from Waukesha county forgetting to find money here in Rock county? How can these numbers be so far off? Especially with 130 less teachers on the dole than last September?

Please Mr Schultz could you clarify the desparity in these numbers? There seems to be a ton of false rhetoric flying around here annd I would just like to know where these numbers come from and who is providing them to you. Thanks.

Two more things:

The numbers changed-
"Several board members suggested the result of the higher salaries would be cuts of teacher jobs and larger classes in 2011-12. Sodemann suggested the loss of 25 to 30 of the 800-plus teacher corps. DuWayne Severson said up to 40 teachers could be cut."

They knew -
"[Severson]said next year’s budget would need to be cut by $4 million to $6 million, the board would not raise taxes to cover that..."

The contract was not hurried through -
"...the 15-month negotiating process..."

Janesville Gazette, 9/15/2010

Hmmm...interesting:
"Another bit of good news: The drop won’t make another hole in the district’s 2010-11 budget, which the school board will discuss when it meets Tuesday.

Pennington said the state-aid formula, which uses enrollment to determine funding, has a hold-harmless clause for districts with declining enrollment. That, combined with the fact that Pennington planned for an enrollment decline when he set up the budget, means the enrollment drop will not affect the bottom line.

Pennington still has to contend with a $1.66 million budget hole created by higher-than-anticipated costs of the new teachers contract and insurance. That’s less than an earlier estimate of $2 million, however."
Janesville Gazette, 9/25/2010

Why weren't staff cut when enrollment dropped? It says a drop of 175 over 2 years. There are over 10,000 students so if you split that 175 up, it might just be one or two kids from each class. You can't cut a teacher when the class drops from 30 to 29/28 students. It isn't as simple as cutting one teacher for each 25 students that leave because those students are spread out over the entire district.

youkillme 8:57pm post. Excellent!!!!

hearmyvoice, what was the question?

Why wasn't staff cut when enrollment dropped?

Realist, I think Janesville's school district is worse off than others mostly from the psychological effect of having a recent $70 million school expansion and renovation project still on the tax books during enrollment decline while losing a $200 million payroll generator in the GM plant. Not many communities suffer from that double takedown. N24, I would like to take your word for Obama ordering a 20% wage reduction for Belvidere, but could you post a web address to verify what you are saying?

N24, you may forget (or misremember) that Chrysler received a fairly substantial loan from the federal government. I'm sure there were strings attached. That may have something to do with the 20% pay cut you discussed.

Many people are blaming the current teacher contract as the reason the JSD is in the current mess. Does anyone know how much more the current contract cost the district than the previous one? I know teachers got a raise, but how much did the increase in salaries actually cost compared to the 2007-09 contract? Compared to the 2005-07 contract? How much did those contracts go above and beyond the cost of inflation? If someone were to find these hard numbers, it may shed some light on to what is actually going on with the JSD budget. I know a few teachers, and by no means were they getting rich over the last few years, perhaps just getting what was not given to them in previous years.

Many people are blaming the current teacher contract as the reason the JSD is in the current mess. Does anyone know how much more the current contract cost the district than the previous one? I know teachers got a raise, but how much did the increase in salaries actually cost compared to the 2007-09 contract? Compared to the 2005-07 contract? How much did those contracts go above and beyond the cost of inflation? If someone were to find these hard numbers, it may shed some light on to what is actually going on with the JSD budget. I know a few teachers, and by no means were they getting rich over the last few years, perhaps just getting what was not given to them in previous years.

"Could our Governor issue a executive order requiring the JEA to work with the tax payers on the terms it is for the betterment of society."
Awesome idea, the part I don't get is if the teachers were to pay 20%, how would that be working with the taxpayers?

You people really amaze me. Sodeman, Severson and all of their followers must be blind. You are honestly blaming the teachers contract for this shortfall? Read the article. The number the district gave of 3.5 million is what the contract cost. Which I am sure is bloated.
Why would they bloat things, " Health insurance is expected to increase another $2.6 million." I could understand this estimate three months ago but now that they have decided to cut its employees by 20% and still with the insurance increase? I am not a school finance expert by any means but something just doesn't add up, then again neither are any of the board members.

"When a district taxes less than the maximum and then spends less, the state reduces aid in subsequent years, essentially penalizing schools for being frugal.
Most districts tax to the max as a matter of course."
Please people of janesville keep complaining about how high your taxes are.

"No one has analyzed exactly what the district’s finances would be today if Janesville had taxed to the max."
Hmmmm... very convenient for the district. Why would you want to know how much you would not be in the hole from a mistake? Why would you want to learn from your mistakes?
I still can't figure out why Janesville is far worse off than almost every school in the state? I guess other districts must have weaker teachers unions than the thugs in Janesville.

N24 did dtb give you a clear answer on the teachers union?
I would say the response was clear as mud!

Wait a second realitybytes. The Janesville school district has this problem because they did not tax to the max. NOT taxing to the max is the failed strategy. Janesville doesn't know what taxing to max even looks like. I doubt too if Walker's budget repair bill changes the state aid formula for schools. In fact, some the wealthiest school districts that afforded to "tax to the max" will see increased state aid under Walker's plan.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/11804...

realitybytes I agree 100%. I for one am very tired of being Taxed To The Max!

N24, you're as in the dark on school issues as local81/jodymac/cass ever was.

the Democratic party war cry: TAX TO THE MAX, TAX TO THE MAX, DON'T LISTEN TO THE FACTS, TAX TO THE MAX.

It has been a failed strategy but it's the only thing they know. The voters are tired of this policy and they wanted a change. I am not saying the Republicans will magically fix things, but TAX TO THE MAX isn't working and Gov. Walker is at least TRYING to make a change. Change can be difficult for people.

shermd71 & antignorance are you both saying the school board is at fault for not Taxing To The Max?

But if the teachers unions used that money to help their members it would not be available to contribute to democratic party election campaigns. Because..."every kid deserves a great school!"

This revenue problem was created by a board that does not understand school funding and who were unwilling to listen to the past administration. The new administration is trying hard, but are simply too inexperienced to know the ins and outs of the complex funding system. For proof simply look at how much state funding Janesville received prior to the new administration. You will find that state funding is falling, though declining enrollment does come into play not to the degree we are losing funding from the state. The funding formula simplified is for every $1 dollar of local funding (property tax) the state will send $2. For every $1 not spent locally; the state takes $2. For the past two years our school board has chosen to use federal grants and the fund 10 balance to lower local taxes to zero. Though their intent was admirable, the effect was that the $8 million they used over the last two years was not matched by state funding. This has created a structural deficit of $10 million dollars. The state reduction this year of $3 million only exasperated the problem.

No, no, no, doc0430, this problem began MANY years ago!! NOT from the unions alleged greed (what a joke!), but from the INEPT school board and it's dysfunctional members over the past 10+ years!! Not taxing to the max has cost the school district millions of dollars based on the way the formula works!! But teachers and the union did NOT cause this problem!! YOUR elected school board officials did!! And now, this district is paying for it DEARLY!!

Nemisis, NO NO NO, thats not the problem here, in September 2010 there was no budget repair bill what so ever even in the works, Gov. Walker didn't get elected until November 2010, thats two months after these bloated contracts were signed, the teachers union created this problem and knowing that back in September 2010 more than 80 jobs would have to be cut with the new contracts dollars being spent they demanded it anyways, so do not think that the budget repair bill created this whole budget shortfall on it's own, the new contracts themselves left the school district $10 million in the red before the budget repair bill was signed and after it gets through the legal mumbo jumbo it's going through now it will leave the district about $13.4 million in the whole. Basically $3.4 million of it is due to the budget repair bill which is a number that could've been dealt with much easier.
So that now being said if the teachers union wouldn't have strong armed the school board into these new bloated contracts (that are going to leave the district struggling until June of 2013 when they run out), Janesville wouldn't be in such a financial dire straights with the school district, and next year is going to be even more difficult when that budget rears its ugly head yet again. Good luck to the school board in trying to figure this huge whole left in the budget by those approved contracts all out, and to the four that voted against the last contracts (it was approved by a very narrow margin back in Sept. 2010 5-4) you knew back then what that would do and unfortunately your peers didn't listen or see the mess that they were approving. But people please don't blame the budget repair bill for this whole mess when that simply is NOT the case here.

The teacher contract was approved in September, well before Walker won and the BRB was introduced.

"One way to get better, Severson and Stottler suggested, is to establish a long-range financial plan so the board can anticipate rather than constantly react to changes in the financial landscape."
_
I'm thinking this idea is too little, too late! We have to get through the next two years with some semblance of a quality school system or things will only get worse for this city.

It is pretty telling the mentality of the school board members. They screwed themselves and the tax payer by hurriedly approving a new union contract that allows for maxed out pay increases before the BRB became law, knowing the taxes they love to increase would be frozen under the BRB, and poorly assuming the state could pay their portion with no cut backs in state aid.