Fearandrhetoric: I have read all of your posts. I agree with you completely. It is too bad there are some posting here who refuse to look at the real facts. Thank you for sharing with everyone the information you have gathered.

I enjoyed everything you posted. Please keep up the good work. I will continue to read all of your posts.

You have made very good points. It is sad to see that some are so blind.

Good to see some rational discussion on here. Fear seems to be drunk on Kool Aid.

Fear, If oil was the reason we went into Iraq, how come we still are not getting any from there?

Making assumptions of others postings is a risky business but you seem confused so I must conclude the following:
1-your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
.
12 year olds are not our reasons for foreign policy, neither is starvation, oppression or any other nastiness – its nice if we could fix the world but its not going to happen. Leaving that aside, I must conclude that you have no problem with a 60 year old with a half dozen 12 year old wives making tons of money selling you the lithium to power your Nissan Leaf. I personaly would rather not make barbarians rich (see Saudi Arabia for an example of what that looks like), Id rather drag those dumps at least into the 18th century as opposed to the 14th where they currently reside as we would all be better off in the long run.
.
2- while you have a right to an opinion, you should make an attempt to go beyond HufPo talking points. We don’t intervene in country X so we shouldn’t be in country Y. Why not come out directly and state that we should not be involved anywhere. I don’t see a chance of you being happy if we took over all the countries on your list. Complain about smart bombs, I guess we could save some money and use unguided munitions a’la WW2. Sure would save a chunk of change but leveling a city block to take out a sniper would kill more than smart bombs. Your worst offense is seeming to believe our military is running amok throughout the world killing innocents on its own accord. Last I checked the civilian govt is in charge of the military. Once again, if you want to blame someone , look to 1600 Pensylvainia ave. Our current Emperor has not been in a hurry to leave Iraq or A-stan (let alone Japan or Germany, Guantanamo, ROK, UK, Kuwait……..). Perhaps he has had his eyes opend to the necessity of remaining engaged in the world to keep the barbarians on the right side of the gate (though admittedly I think it is more a case of he does not care and it is easier to keep going ahead rather than change things. That would mean he needs to HAVE a foreign policy, its more fun to go on vacation and campaign for re-election).

Like I said, I figured you wouldn't bother with my relatively easy suggestion to put any objective measurements to your contentions and thus strengthen your arguments (if the facts were on your side.) You're afraid of the truth, and rightfully so.

Noleftist- You unintelligent response matches your name. I have NEVER worker for a union of government entity in my life. Your assumptions make you look really bad.
Hiding earnings in offshore accounts, or using funny accounting tricks may be circumventing laws and in some certain terms they may not be TOTAL lawbreakers. However falsely reporting income to avoid taxes , IS ILLEGAL! Again if you do researc you will find that many of this country's largest corporations do exactly that. In fact I posted a list of corporations that do exactly that. Since you simply refuse to believe that corporations commit tax fraud I'll give you a link with about 30 linked articles over the last 10 years of TAX EVASION(CRIME), Tax avoidance, and TAX FRAUD(CRIME). It really soesnt take that much digging to find the truth, you just have to want to believe it. One thing I will say that we can agree on is that our laws are made FOR the corporate giants BY the corporate giants(lobbying) and it makes me wanna puke, especially when we spen more on unneccessary wars in a week than the state of Wisconsin does in 2 years on public ed. Cut 130 teachers? Makes PERFECT sense to those that like to watch wars on TV!
As far as your idiotic rhetoric "no leftist" your comment of "left wing fantasies" just paints you as a mentally disabled partisan. Little do you know I am an entrepeneur, AND used to vote republican until recently. Your A$$umptions about paty affiliation and your stupid screen name allows people to see your predispositions. I do not subscribe to partisan politics, I dislike our absolutely blinding system of government that generally gives you 2 choices. IMO thats EXACTLY what they want, to pit the middle class against one another while they "Take the money and run". In your case they have succeeded.
As an entrepenuer I will tell you , my tax rates have little or NOTHING to do with whether or not I can hire people. The local economy and the ability of folks to spend money does. Its called supply and demand. The tax rates on the individual are at their lowest rates since the 1950's.
I only wished some of you that want to have a debate about issues were more informed , and would actually read and research. Fox noise doesn't give it to you straight. the rhetoric is thick, and so is the BS. People like noleftist are just parrots that hav ZERO objectivity and do NOT want to be educated about what is really happening, they just let Rush, Hannity, Beck, and the rest tell them what to think. PATHETIC!!

Corporations, unlike most government programs, must subject themselves to an independent audit as well as annual state and federal tax audits. Most major corporations have permanent IRS offices in their headquarters because they are under constant audit. Of course, you don't know this because you've never worked at any level of responsibility in a for-profit company (most likely you are on the government dole in some manner, shape, or form, living off of the taxes from corporations and entrepreneurs you are so busy hating and libeling.)

If there's so much cheating out there, you'd better tell the IRS and all the state Departments of Revenue about it and probably fire them while you're at it.

Since you put out no metrics to justify your baseless rants, let me suggest one. Take all the unfavorable rulings in federal tax courts logged over a year (actual cheating) and divide that by total corporate tax revenues collected in the same period. I won't even ask you to net out favorable rulings (i.e. government cheating).

I am quite confident that number will be well below 1%. I am also quite sure you won't do the research to find that out because either 1. You know it to be true, or 2. You are afraid it would be true, thus putting the lie to your mindless left-wing fantasies.

Fear,
IF THEY FOLLOW THE LAWS, THEY ARE NOT TAX CHEATS!!

IT IS THE LAWS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT THE CORPORATIONS.

BunBun- Worse atrocities happen all over the world every day that our "killing machine" seems to ignore citing previous examples.(Rwanda,Sudan,Congo,North Korea, etc...) So lets not act as if the reason we are in Afghanistan is to protect the 12 year old girls from dirty old men. The USA does not just invade nations for oil, there are SEVERAL other resources that we want. Lithium and Nickel are 2 MAJOR newer solutions for improving DC battery power. Mineral riches are ALSO a huge industry as well as HEROIN.(no proof, just my guess)
As far as Iraq goes, we agree. Oil wasn't the SOLE reason we invaded, but IT WAS A HUGE factor. That alone is enough to have war crimes trials for a number of Bush admin officials that misled and lied our way into a war that had zero to do with the reasons they gave. Oil and geopolitics.
Were all of the million people slaughtered in the middle east since we have been there 60 year old men that wanted to marry 12 year old girls? Or were they families and innocent children? Thousands of dead soldiers , tens of thousands PERMANTLY maimed for what? OIL? A permanent base? If you were thr family of a dead soldier and believe that we were lied to, how would you feel? You are a military person, I am surprised that you support such unjust wars run by politicians with no regard for life lost. Dont buy that statement? Why is it that our government doesnt talk about the innocents killed by our "smart bombs" propaganda maybe?

Shrek- Again, if you dont think corporations dont mis-report their earnings, you are the one that is SEVERELY delusional. I gave lists of corporate AND individual tax cheats. Its the first step in the 12 step program DENIAL. You can research corporate tax cheats, they exist, and they are the number one reason there is a defecit. You can point to govt spending , i would be inclined to agree with that. Wealthy people and corporations ARE the largest offenders of the tax code. Its NOT a matter of opinion, its just the facts! Live in your version of reality all you like, does NOT make you correct, makes you a simpleton, unwilling to look around. OR it makes you an employee(r) and a tax cheat yourself.

--and why does fear repeat his nonsense? and go back to his posts? Proverbs 26:9-12

"The group has decided it will rely on the school board and administration to decide how to use the money by determining what positions and programs would best support district students, Rundle said." Change that to "The group has decided that in determining the specific use(s) for the money raised, with the intent of using it toward positions and programs that would best support district students, it will take into account the advice of the school board and administration, but will retain final decision making power within the group." There. You just doubled your money.

Fear,
I read the list and very few are corporations and none of them are the ones that you listed before. Also, these are not tax cheaters, they are people that are delinquent on their taxes, very much different.

I have deduced from your rants that you are delusional.

I'm glad to know that my opinion has enough weight to convict a President of war crimes but I did not state that the war in Iraq was solely about oil (read it again) though that is also a factor. Iraq was more about splitting up a lump of barbaric states and catching Iran in a vice to exert influence there in order to potentially have a check on nukes.
.
One thing I will never concede an inch (or millimeter if you prefer metric) is your statement that the US Military is imperialistic. The US Military has a purpose - to kill people and break things at the direction of the US civilian government. If you wish to argue the benefit/cost/right/wrong of empire, take it up with those who write the order.
.
one last thing since this has gone way off topic....would you rather resources were under the control of people stuck in the 14th century? How are you going to get the Lithium to power your electric car? You want to pay a bunch of people who believe it is ok to kill a 12 year old girl who does not want to marry some 60 year old man?

Bunbun-think I am off on my assumptions about Afghanistan? Read: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...

BunBun- Every other nation in the history of the world that has tried to impose imperialism, has failed and gone broke. That is what is happening to us. the US govt/military is creating generations of new enemies that we will not be able to fight. Having permanent military bases all over the world is doing NOTHING. I am glad to see you admit the Iraq war was for OIL. That proves George Bush is a war criminal and should be prosecuted as such.
we are in Afghanistan for the HUGE mineral resources. The mountains in that country have the largest Lithium and Nickel deposits in the world. Those are the future of energy. We also want control over the poppy market that booms from Afghanistan. Heroin and opium may not be in the front pages, but they are EXTREMELY lucrative, and Americans love money more than anything. By reading your responses, I see that we do agree on something. The US military's main purposes are imerialistic in nature, and also motivated(mostly) by gaining control over natural resources for the CORPORATIONS that control our government, to drive the prices through the roof so they can collect record profits, and recieve subsidies from the US govt. Great nation we call home huh?

No Vato, no more money, just make the biggest corporations that CHEAT on their taxes and get away with it due to their large legal budgets , and excellent financial tricks, PAY THEIR SHARE!! The 14 trillion dollar debt falls on them, not the public workers! Shrek, you just will not read anything other than the WSJ, and thats fine. If you don't think the larget corporations and the wealthiest individuals arent the biggest TAX cheats, then youre just NOT with it. Sorry but I won't post anymore examples because you dont read the substance anyways. I will post a LINK for you to look at, a list of WISOCONSIN's BIGGEST tax cheats, and we shall see if you look, or just spew more crap about how rich folks and corporations dont cheat their way to prosperity.
Link:http://www.revenue.wi.gov/delqlist/Topten.htm
This is a list of the top LOCAL cheaters, all wealthy business/property owners. NONE teachers! Over a billion dollars in State taxes ALONE not paid, not pursued by the dept of admin, period. ONE BILLION in STATE TAXES!!
Any of you that believe the financial hardship is not caused by corrupt corporations gaming thesystem and lobbying to make rules in their favor, are just fooling yourselves, or you are one of them, period. Stop making excuses for these people/companies, THEY are the reason we are in so much financial trouble. The USA is taxed less now than in the 1950's as a percentage of salary. Revenue problem and a spending problem, most of all a corruption problem. Business and politics working together to get disgustingly wealthy, while the great majority are losing everything. When will we revolt? Hopefully soon, before its all gone. Shrek you divert facts to make your opinions look correct, they are not. I have TONS of evidence pointing to shady profit reporting corruption to avoid taxes. The corporations I speak of have legal teams to fight any claim that are budgeted in the tens of millions of dollars. Dont be so ignorant.

"I am sure you will say I am wrong, so i am Ready for it."
.
You are wrong…sorry, couldn’t resist. You asked WHY we have troops in Germany/Japan and I answered. The topic of if it is necessary for a military presence to remain in those countries is a separate question. I’m in favor of removing troops from Germany and Japan and having a semi-permanent presence in Iraq. Like it or not, until oil is no longer a necessary commodity to civilization we will have to deal with the rest of the world. Sure, we could pretend we are Europe (excepting the UK) and withdraw within our borders, slash the military to a skeleton and spend the money on the welfare state and still run out of other people’s money only to find the rest of the world has become FAR more dangerous than it is today.
You are correct in stating that we have not intervened in Rwanda, Congo, Sudan or Somalia (lately) as we have no interest in pure humanitarian missions to cesspits of countries. The only reason we stay in Afghanistan is its location. From there we have bracketed Iran (a wannabe nuke armed country) and have a location near Pakistan (a nuke armed country that is not stable).
As for North Korea, I agree that there is nothing on that peninsula that is worth a dime to the US. Our presence is a hold over of the democrat strategy of “containment”. We have not invaded for 2 reasons: 1) again there is nothing there we need and 2) China supports NK (more to annoy and tie us down) and we owe them (China) too much money. Add the fact that the ROK capital is within artillery range of the north plus the fact that the ROK also holds lots of US Tbills and you see why we aren’t eager to go for round 2.

Fear tries to overwhelm the discussion with rants about things, many times unrelated to the topic at hand.
****
As I said before, IF you have solid evidence of tax fraud, report it to the IRS. The examples you have given are of companies that take advantage of our overly complex tax code. What they are doing may be unethical, but not illegal. You should be directing your anger towards our elected officials, not the corporations.
****
My original point was that we need to eliminate the tax cheats, the people that claim credits that they are not entitled to. Just the Earned Income Credit alone costs the country $8-10 Billion dollars. This is money that is paid out to people, not a reduction in taxes paid.

I have not read all the comments but I for one am not happy that my child was told who was being laid off in her school. She told me she was in gym class and the gym teacher mentioned it but wouldn't give the names of teachers. One student asked if they were to guess the name would she tell them and the teacher said yes. Well, they could easily name all the teachers and when my daughter got in the car after school she was on the verge of tears because one of the teachers being laid off at her school is the teacher she has now. In my opinion children should not have to worry about things like this at such a young age.

You lefties never cease to amuse. Oil! Iraq! Evil insurance companies! Why not bring up Obama's birth certificate?

The article is about the Janesville School District.

One thing I noted is that there was no mention (as usual) of the $100k+ health retirement benefits that teachers get paid out of instructional funds. I suspect that's much more pertinent to the issue at hand than the pay of a pharmaceutical company CEO that doesn't live in Wisconsin and never has.

You lefties are pathetic.

@ l(ady)s(tar)d(ust) -

"Why don't we get rid of second language teachers first-seems to me it's a lot more important to have a librarian on duty then it is to learn french or german and spanish."
Spoken like a true nationalistic 'patriot' -- unfortunately, for me, it was through learning a second language that I had a better understanding of the structure of ours.
I personally say, let's keep the faculty and start downsizing some of the bureaucrats who claim they are in it for the kids.

"This is America, we speak English, read English and write English, in school they teach us how to use language and resources to learn."
Which has gone about as far as water clinging to duck feathers. Check any comment section -- Yahoo, MSN, even this one...There are plenty of people out there who still have to get THIS language downpat -- there are plenty of people around the world who have to get their own languages downpat, to be precise, but the people of our country seem to suffer from an acute form of language lethargy. And with the advent of text shorthand, we're falling even further down the well.
What is that the result of?

Eliminate those corporate taxes (which are paid by the consumer) and corporations will not have to play games with tax havens.

@ fear --

Unfortunately, it looks like oil is part of the deal in Iraq -- as well as the $700 million embassy in its bed of 104 acres...geo-political, yes. But as far as the oil is concerned, from what I've gathered in advance of recent events, which ultimately became the recent events, it is orchestrated chaos, orchestrated upheaval, all to drive the the oil price up (and to drive the Middle East into the ground). The projected target is $200/barrel, so we still have around another $2 to go at the pump, maybe more. However, the top end of that target price will be determined by how much resistance the PTB get from We the People.
.
We shouldn't even be in Libya...there was no declaration of war by Congress -- how airstrikes can be considered 'humanitarian' is beyond me. Obama bypassed Congress, and therefore 'us', when it came to sending our military over there (although Congress has been less of 'us' for quite a few years, now).
Obama should be impeached for this action, just like Bush should have been booted for getting the ball rolling in Iraq, on a 'hunch'...WMDs -- so when was that threat actually directed at us, anyway? (But I digress...)
.
Boots will be on the ground in Libya -- it's highly probable intelligence forces already are and have been. Operation Gladio, anyone? Maybe Operation Ajax, on a much grander scale?
Once again, we shouldn't even be in Libya (as well as pretty much everywhere else), but the Africom seed was planted, and now it must grow.

What really angers me about some people is that they just refuse to search for the truth. Now Shrek I just gave you Alomost 20 total examples of the biggest most powerful companies in America and how they either avoid paying taxes, or just downright cheat. If you refuse to read , or just are an employee of one of the companies mentioned, I understand. But to say that my annger is "misdirected" is just ridiculous! The anger at teachers and state workers is the misdirected anger here. these companies are the reasons our nation is in the toilet. you dont believe it, I dont know what to tell you. You have the internet, its amazing what you can find if you are willing to read when using GOOGLE!

And to finish:
. IBM

CEO: Samuel Palmisano (He also serves on Exxon Mobile's board of directors. Palmisano ranked 21st on Forbes' list of CEO pay, pulling down a tidy sum of over $25 million last year.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $19.7 billion

How IBM avoids paying US taxes: Over three years in the early 2000s, the company exploited “a litany of tax breaks” that allowed it to slash its taxes by 95 percent! Bet you wish you could do that.

IBM fun-fact: According to Reuters, IBM has cut 30,000 US jobs since 2003, which is good news for Indian tech workers – the company added 69,000 jobs in India over the same period.

8. Time Warner

CEO: Jeffrey Bewkes (Bewkes pulled down $48 million in pay over the past five years, which was good enough for #56 on Forbes' 2010 list of best paid CEOs.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $3.9 billion

How Time Warner avoids paying US taxes: According to MSNBC, “The entertainment conglomerate managed some swift accounting to use its merger with AOL in 2000 to leave it with little tax to pay. Between 2001 and 2003, Time Warner claimed tax breaks that cut its taxes by 121 percent—and allowed the company to pay nothing at all in taxes for two years.”

Time-Warner fun-fact: A Google search of “Time Warner” and “evil” nets 4.2 million results. 'Nuff said – you already know you hate them.

9. Morgan Stanley

CEO: James Gorman (After his firm played a starring role in crashing the global economy, Gorman took home a $5.7 million bonus in 2009.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $6.2 billion

How Morgan Stanley avoids paying US taxes: It took full advantage of offshore tax havens; then, under a 2004 law, repatriated much of that money for a super-low tax rate of just over 5 percent.

Morgan Stanley fun-fact: JPMorgan is the largest servicer of food-stamps in the U.S., offering benefit cards in 26 states. As Mary Bottari wrote for AlterNet, “The firm is paid per customer. This means that when the number of food stamp recipients goes up, so do JPMorgan profits.” She adds: “JPMorgan is taking its responsibility to keep the US unemployment rate high by offshoring the servicing of many of these contracts to India, according to ABC News.”

More for you Shrek:
. Pfizer

CEO: Ian Read (Read's new on the job, following the sudden departure of former CEO Jeffrey Kindler late last year.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $9.4 billion

How Pfizer avoids paying US taxes: Pfizer uses “transfer pricing” to record phantom profits in low-tax countries based on sales in other countries.

Pfizer fun-fact: The Wall Street Journal, in 2009, noted that “Pfizer agreed to plead guilty to a felony violation 'for misbranding Bextra with the intent to defraud or mislead.' The settlement is the largest in Justice Department history, according to theDOJ’s statement.” It paid $2.3 billion for the fraud.

5. Oracle

CEO: Lawrence Ellison (Forbes ranks Ellison as the 6th richest man in the world, with a fortune worth $28 billion.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $8.2 billion

How Oracle avoids paying US taxes: Transfer pricing again, although MSNBC adds that “Oracle suffered a bit last fall when its Japanese subsidiary had to negotiate an advance agreement with tax authorities in the US and Japan so it wouldn’t get hit with transfer price taxes in Japan... Its stock closed 9 percent below the previous day’s close on the Nikkei, the Japanese stock market.

Oracle fun-fact: In 2004, then Attorney General John Ashcroft sued Oracle to block an acquisition on anti-trust grounds. Just three months after he resigned, Ashcroft opened a lobbying shop, Oracle became his biggest client and the right-wing crooner reportedly smoothed the way for its acquisition of Choicepoint, a company made infamous for its part in disenfranchising voters in the 2000 election.

6. Altria (Philip Morris)

CEO: Michael Szymanczyk (He's #176 on Forbes' list of the most highly paid CEOs, raking in $6.35 million last year.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $5.7 billion

How Altria avoids paying US taxes: According to MSNBC's analysis, “Between 2001 and 2003, the cigarette maker took advantage of $3.3 billion in tax breaks, which effectively cut its taxes by one-third.”

Altria fun-fact: The word “Altria” is derived from the Latin word for “high,” and was taken to distance itself from the baggage surrounding the name Phillip Morris. According to the Center for Public Integrity, Altria came in second in terms of dollars spent on lobbying between 1998-2004, showering politicians with over $100 million.

Really Shrek? I posted 10 HUGE examples, of CHEATERS! Here we go again, dont tell me than my anger at EXXon Mobil is misdirected, that is a knuckleheaded statement. Ill give you some more specific examples:
. Google

CEO: Eric Schmidt (117 on Forbes list of the wealthiest with a net worth of $6.3 billion in 2010.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $10.8 billion

How Google avoids paying US taxes: According to MSNBC, Google reports income in overseas tax havens and then reports its costs here at home. Google also patents its products abroad, licenses its technologies from its overseas subsidiaries and then writes off the costs of the licenses.

Google fun-fact: Google rents 200 goats, complete with goatherd and a border collie, to keep the grass nicely trimmed at Google HQ. Oh, and this week Bloomberg reported that the Federal Trade Commission is considering launching a major investigation into Google's anti-competitive practices.

2. News Corp

CEO: Rupert Murdoch (Murdoch ranked 53rd on Forbes' list of highest-paid CEOs and was the 117th richest person in the world last year.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $3.3 billion

Taxation strategy: In 2008, the Government Accountability Office issued an analysis concluding that one of the companies with the greatest number of subsidiaries in offshore tax-havens was none other than News Corp., which then had more than 150 of them scattered across the world.

News Corp. fun-fact: Fox “News” devoted significant airtime to hyping the financial ties between Alwaleed bin Talal, a member of the Saudi royal family, and the developers of the Park 51 Muslim community center planned for downtown Manhattan. Fox implied there was something sinister about the financier, but didn't mention that he is also News Corp.'s second largest shareholder, with 7 percent of the company's stock.

3. Boeing

CEO: W. James McNerney (According to Forbes, McNerney is the 101st most highly compensated CEO, pulling in a cool $58 million over the last five years.)

2010 Pre-tax Profit: $4.5 billion

How Boeing avoid paying US taxes: According to MSNBC, “despite a double-digit tax rate, Boeing has managed to escape paying federal taxes for the last three years thanks to a plethora of foreign subsidiaries, which act as a tax haven. According to Citizens for Tax Justice, the airplane maker paid 0.3 percent of its pre-tax income in federal income taxes in 2010.”

Boeing fun-fact: Boeing may be a defense contractor that's flush with cash, but it reportedly uses prison labor to assemble cable assemblies for the F-15 fighter. At least the jobs are in the US!

Bunbun- The Soviet Union? When did that collapse? 1991! That is what, 20 years ago? What do we really need to be in Korea for? If we were going to invade them it would have happened during the Bush years, problem with that is that Korea doesnt have any natural resources we need. Instead we have a HUGE military base and stand by while Kim Jong Il starves millions of innocent people. ill bet if there were Oil riches there we certainly would have invaded decades ago.
I understand you are a military man BunBun, and thats fine. All due respect, the USA's imperialism needs to stop. Don't sit and tell me how broke we are that we need to lay off thousands of teachers, and leave MILLIONS of our own citizens with ZERO health care, while we have military bases all over the world to make it easier to move(transport) military equipment? You can ridicule my OPINIONS on my problems with the industrial military complex, but I see NO necessity for our establishments all over the world. We simply do NOT need to be dominating the world. We NEED to educate our population and take care of our citizens. There is no where in the world that we are "fighting for our own freedom". we are NOT involved in ONE necessary operation.
You obviously are far more educated on Military ops than I, that doesnt make you correct on the positions we take , and how we execute them. If we are so morally correct, then why did we not help the innocent people slaughtered in Sudan, Rwanda, Congo or any of a dozen other places in the world. You know why, because there are no resources for us to try to get our hands on. Iraq, IMO was less about oil and more about geo-politics. The goal(IMO) was to establish a PERMANENT military base in the middle east. I am sure you will say I am wrong, so i am Ready for it.

Fred, not old white people like you. Stupid is as stupid does. Hyphens are NOT a part of structured sentences. Maybe next time you should bring your brain to the discussion, instead of your ridiculous attitude. Periods and commas old fella, they are there for a reason, I don't care if you are blind and your 4 year old grandson types for you, get over yourself. Dont call out others for grammatical errors if you have zero grip on it yourself. Done with old angry grandpa, go to bed FRED!

fear--it is "asian" you are like a little boy being potty trained--you want praise for your "poop"--when you get older you will realize that poop is poop (yoiur posts)--as to the letters, i read with one eye and type with one hand--and still include something for you--you will note that the above is in one or two sylbul(sic) words because you seem to have trouble with bigger words--grow up little boy. bigot? you don't like old people, or white people i guess

Fear,
You are angry at the wrong people and you are ignorant on the subject.

Corporations are not tax cheats, they are doing what is legal per our tax laws. If you know of a corporation that is cheating, by all means report them to the IRS at www.irs.gov. They will even pay you a reward if you fill out form 211.

People that wrongly claim credits are tax cheats according to the laws.

The way to correct this problem is to reform the tax laws.

""Why do we need 900 fully staffed military bases in 156 countries? Is that wise spending? 53,000 troops in Germany? 38,000 in Japan? I thought the were our allies? Or are we simply keeping them in check after WW2? The Military machine needs to be cut. There is NO reason on Earth we should be INCREASING military spending by 14.8 billion dollars.""
.
The only reason we keep troops in Japan/Germany is that it takes too long to send equipment where it is needed. Do you have any idea how hard it is to move an armored brigade? Besides our troops refuse to leave Germany as the beer is quite good.
seriously, keep Germany and Japan in check? are you being deliberately obtuse or do you not remember the Soviet union? I well remember sitting on the wrong end of the Fulda gap waiting for the T-72's and T-80's to come a rollin'. Japan? does the PRC mean anything? North Korea? I seem to recall that that war is not over - just a cease fire. I could agree to reductions in defense spending but from your comments, I don't know that I would trust you to suggest good ones.

KI still cant believe someone calls me ignorant, then goes on to say corporations adhere to tax laws! another DIRECT link to follow:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Offshore_t...

Here are a list of corporatons that "follow the tax code":

Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.
Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

You color it however you want, the folks benefitting from EITC are not the ones mucking up the system. You want to poiunt to my ignorance? Your opinion. I would ask why YOU purposely dodge the point of the people linked to dodging WISCONSIN taxes directly as being part of a billion dollars owed to THIS state. How many of those folks do you think benefitted from EITC?
I dont doubt for a second that people cheat on their taxes in every single economic class of society. Which ones do you think hurt society more?
Wait, did you seriously say that corporations adhere to the tax code? And you call me ignorant? If you are such a big fan of Yahoo, maybe you should look up corporate tax cheats and see what you come up with. Cmon, dont throw around terms like that unless you are ready to be called out.
Here Ill give you a DIRECT link with big pictures so you won't even have to read that much:
http://www.usuncut.org/blog/infographic-...
And you have the nerve to say I am ignorant?

Fear,
Go to Yahoo and search for "Earned Income Credit Ineligible". You will find multiple articles that describe the problem.

I did not say to take it away, I just want the tax cheats to quit getting it. Similar to how you rail against corporations, except the corporations are adhering to tax laws.

Your anger is clouding your thinking, maybe you should read other peoples posts and not be so quick to respond with ignorance.

One more for Bunbun. Why do we need 900 fully staffed military bases in 156 countries? Is that wise spending? 53,000 troops in Germany? 38,000 in Japan? I thought the were our allies? Or are we simply keeping them in check after WW2? The Military machine needs to be cut. There is NO reason on Earth we should be INCREASING military spending by 14.8 billion dollars.

I am curious why the answer to our tax/revenue probs from the conservative standpoint seems to always be to take from the poor and middle class and give more to the wealthy? Take away the EITC, is that a solution, really? I would love a link on where you got the numbers about ineligible folks.
Maybe the state could find all of the wealthy tax cheats that are into the state for over a billion dollars. How many people on that list do you think are from the lower/middle class? how many do you think gave money to Scott Walker , so they wouldn't be pursued? (Wink wink)

Bunbun, Why again do we need the most expensive military on Earth? Posting a quote doesn't make it any more right to have military conquests all over the world does it? The US military is directly responsible for the deahts of over one million Iraqi/Afghani civillians since 2003(British Medical Journal), is that what we get for our trillions of dollars? I personally would rather we had a health care system to be proud of, instead we have created GENERATIONS of new terrorists to perpetuate our industrial military complex. I believe that was the Neo-cons Idea from day one anyway. SAD!

Okay Fred lets see, you criticize my grammar, then write an entire post without ONE capital letter, or ANY punctuation.(That is a period) That in itself is funny to me.
Post after post you continue to ramble on about some kind of gay agenda in the public schools. For your next trick you use some racially slanted phrase related to Aisans? Seriously I hope your kids/grandkids are more well adjusted than you are, if not then we have a whole new generation of prejudicial bigots on our hands. At 74 I know it is too late for you, but hopefully your family is better off and more stable than you are sir, I really do. I feel sorry for you now, I hope that your views are just hyperbole. If they are real please just stay home, because in the real world, all races and people of different sexual choices have a place in this society. I for one will teach MY kids to be tolerant of others, certainly not the path you have chosen. How very Christian of you Fred, think of your fellow man, as long as they are caucasian and straight.
As far as my posts, I get private messages all the time from folks that agree with me that enjoy my opinions. I also correspond with folks that don't. I however have ZERO time for bigoted angry old men that criticize others grammar when they themselves cannot even form a sentence, enjoy the rest of your life Fred, you must be a miserable person.

Bun bun, not a shot at the folks at Kandu. There is a person on here that continues to change screen names to get back in that could only suggest changing the food services to Kandu, over and over. Local 81 you are not Cass/jodymac fine, you are still dishonest. First you claimed to be a teacher getting laid off, FALSE. Your lack of knowledge about where JEA dues go , helped everyone figure that out.
Next you cliam to be a former UAW worker that was somehow put off by the JEA when GM closed, as if they coould have somehow saved that doomed pollution factory. So Local81 WHOEVER you are, why dont you just stop spreading false crap about unionized folks just to prove some uneducated point? Just be honest about who you are and what you do. I am not the ONLY regular poster on here that thinks you are someone else, so come clean.

It is estimated that between 22% and 30% of taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Credit on their tax returns do not actually qualify for it. This led to an additional cost to the government (in 2010) of between $8 and $10 billion.

This is an interesting statistic, maybe if the government would fix this, we wouldn't have to lay off so many people.

"The USA spends near 50% of the ENTIRE worlds military budget. Does that make the number any less daunting? "
.
care to share the WHY of that number and how it only tells a fraction of the story? The US has the worlds 8th largest military in terms of manpower. You offset #'s with high-tech. Yes, an M1A2 costs a fortune, you could go cheap if you don't care that your crews would die in droves in a shooting match. We could cut our budget and bring back the WW2 M4 Sherman - that would sure save a buck but then a weak US military is not a cost savings.
"...the most expensive thing in the world is a second-best military establishment, good but not good enough to win." -- Robert A. Heinlein

(Apr 16, 2011 at 3:09 p.m.)Hey , I like this discussion. Lets not muck it up with insults, PLEASE!
.
(Apr 16, 2011 at 10:34 p.m. )I hope the Gaz sees you again for what you are, a Kandu worker trying to score a contract. JOKE!
.
that didn't take long.....and an insult to the folks at Kandu as well. nice.

Why don't we get rid of second language teachers first-seems to me it's a lot more important to have a librarian on duty then it is to learn french or german and spanish. This is America, we speak English, read English and write English, in school they teach us how to use language and resources to learn. Keep the librarians, lose the german teacher.

It really bothers me to see how embarrassingly "anti-teacher" Janesville has become. Sad...sad...sad....

--guess you're right fear--but I take comfort in that I have children--and grandchildren---and great grandchildren that can spell and use correct grammar--you, unfortunately, appear to be about the worst poster on any Gazette thread, because you simply cannot do any of these--you can, and do, insult others, which is simply like a spoiled child begging for attention

With these outrageous cuts no one will want to move to this district. That includes businesses, families, and teachers in the future. In talking to friends around the state, what they here about our school district is embarrassing! And I'm sure what all the people that have left in the past 2 years shares isn't positive either!

Local81, why dont you keep your statements to yourself. You have no clue where the dues go. Parts go to WEAC and the NEA. You have stated you are a soon to be former teacher(LIE) then you said you are a former GM employee(LIE). We all know that you are cass/jodymac the spreader of lies and hate and UNTRUTHS. Get over yourself and stop coming back with different names. How many different email accounts do you have to keep coming back? I hope the Gaz sees you again for what you are, a Kandu worker trying to score a contract. JOKE!

"Your governor did the right thing and you won! Your beautiful state won! And people still have their jobs!" - Sarah Palin
.
Of course she supports a fellow lying, Republican, one-and-done governor...

fear said, "The curreent reform is a HUGE giveaway to ins companies. MORE CORRUPTION. Its one of the BIG reasons I feel like Obama is a sell out..."
-
This will probably come as no surprise to you, fear, but I agree with you 100%. Obama and the Democratic leadership did sell us out -- all Americans. And it's no reason for Republicans to gloat, either. Sooner or later, TRUE health care reform (universal single payer) will happen. It is simply inevitable and only a matter of time and will probably be enacted not a second too early prior to this country being totally bankrupted by big pharma and the insurance conglomerates.

Poobah, youre not arrogant, you're a socialist;)

clarity said, "I have caught a glimpse into the arrogance of your soul."
-
Yes, I know, I am arrogant enough to think that health care is a human right. I am arrogant enough to think those who can afford to help the less fortunate should willingly do so and not have to be dragged kicking and screaming about it being charity or a handout to "lazy" people. I'm arrogant enough to believe the extreme notion that women are human beings and deserve equal pay. I'm arrogant enough to believe every person in this country should have adequate housing and food and that nobody should go to bed hungry. I'm arrogant enough to believe every person in this country should have a right to an education that makes them competitive in our global economy. Oh yes, I'm an arrogant one. How dare me!

Hey , I like this discussion. Lets not muck it up with insults, PLEASE! that includes calling folks "liberals" as a means for denograting a POV> I respect your honesty Clarity, pls try to respect mine. I offered my ideas for solutions , that YOU asked for. I feel as I am well equipped to defend EVERY one of my ideas. I would like to hear alternative ideas that would employ AMERICANS, take care of AMERICANS. Short of "pull up your boot straps" or any other rhetorical arguements that continue to fall short.
I would also like to point out that when separated from the 'universal health care' argument Americans AGREE with the current reform.(not me) The curreent reform is a HUGE giveaway to ins companies. MORE CORRUPTION. Its one of the BIG reasons I feel like Obama is a sell out, along with extending the Bush tax cuts, that haven't created a SINGLE job in this nation.
I will remind you all I am no partisan. I am for whats right for the people of this nation, not her corporations or those that own them , or the same folks that own our government. You dont think so, look at who is getting richer while most are getting poorer. Its an easy trail to follow.

As I stated Clarity I do NOT believe in the "collective" relative to how you stated it. I just stated that its important to note that irresponsible lifestyles when it comes to health leads to higher costs. Whether its a single payer system or the current for profit system that we currently have. The difference is the current system gives the costs to private corporations that are designed to deny coverage to their customers any way they can. Is there any business in the world other than insurance that makes money by DENYING their services to paying customers?
BunBun- You are correct, I mis spoke. The USA spends near 50% of the ENTIRE worlds military budget. Does that make the number any less daunting? I am fine with 40% of national spending for soc sec and medicare. The medicare costs could be kept in check with my ideas for health care(single payer). You are correct on your facts, I mis spoke I hope this clears it up. Maybe you should look up some numbers on our broken, corrupt health care system. BTW we spend about 1.5 -2 trillion on defense, every year! That keeps INCREASING!!! Whe do we say enough is enough? Unnecessary mid east wars or health care for all? should be a pretty easy answer for any human being. We certainly aren't solving any problems over there. We are NOT fighting for freedom in the middle east, as a matter of a fact I would say our conquests in OIL countries have created a whole new generation of enemies. I am guessing thats what those in the industrial military complex wanted, disagree? LOVE to hear it!!
My source:http://www.visualeconomics.com/military-spending-worldwide/

Save the praying, clarity, it's a waste of time. But hope is a good thing.

clarity, both of your follow-up posts are just pathetic. I don't know what percent of Americans disagree with me, that's not my point. But the only reason they would disagree is because of Republican fear-mongering about death panels, rationed care, etc. which is being done by Republican leadership at the direction of big pharma and the health insurers.
-
On the bit about me choosing which charities I give to -- this has NOTHING to do with charity. That's a big problem with people's thinking today. Everyone should look at health care is a human right, not a charity.

Fear (Mr EYSTER) also seems to believe that 1/2 of the yearly budget is defense spending. Must be some of that new math where 18.7% somehow = 1/2 (math quiz: so what fraction would Social security be when it is 19.6% of the budget using the above ratio of 18.7%=50% as a guide?).

clarity said, "The simple fact is, every American has access to health care in one form or another. Emergency rooms do not turn patients away."
-
You really didn't think about that one very long, did you my friend? One problem with this kludge of a health care system we have is that it isn't a health care system at all. It's an illness response system. And in large part it's because many people simply can't afford coverage. Our providers profits are geared toward treating ill people as opposed to keeping healthy people healthy. Your cavalier attitude of "let them use the emergency room" just perpetuates this failed system.
-
There is simply way too little preventative care being done and emergency rooms do not do preventative care, clarity. And do you have any idea what the increased cost of treating an infection, sore throat, pink eye and a thousand other routine illnesses in the emergency room is versus in a clinic setting? And do you know who pays that cost? Come on.

Remember Clarity if you "work hard" you can gain a scholarship to Harvard. Education is what you make of it. Health care is something that should NOT be determined by economic or social standing, period. If everyone is "entitled" to an education, why are we not entitled to health care?
To answer your question, no I dont think the government should be mandating anything when it comes to peoples choice of lifestyle. However the current world that we live in allows folks to be obese and drive up costs. I would advocate the same thing in a single payer system. then when we as a people take better care of ourselves , we the people save money. If we choose to live and eat irresponsibly we all pay more , that simple. Why should insurance companies continue to make BILLIONS on the unhealthy lifestyles of our population? I say if we dont live right we pay, consequences for actions , disagree? If we live responsible it gets less expensive. I dont think its right for employers like you clarity to have to bear the brunt of the cost, it should be paid for by EVERYONE, because EVERYONE needs health care at some point or another, its just a fact of life. Fair or unfair.

Making things more fair "for the greater good" and welfare of everybody else at the expense of your own self interests runs counter to man's basic human nature and is by definition immoral. It is both the source and the fuel of our current problems in the USA. Any attempts to further this philosophy will only make matters worse. Good luck.

Repeated from another article: Local81: Give it up. You are so off-base that it is truly comical. If you truly are a teacher, then you should have better math skills. As a JEA member you are fully welcome to attend an RA meeting and view the financial reports. For the rest of you, JEA dues are about $750 x about 825 members. Not even close to your concocted $1.4 million. Now, give it a rest.

Clarity- That is a FANTASTIC arguement. Maybe we should use the same logic when talking about taxes. Stop using the term "liberals" its getting old. Human beings want a fair health care system. Plus youre right about emergency rooms , when poor folks get sick thats where they have to go. Which costs our system ENORMOUS amounts of money.
i would offer solutions of at least suggestions for solutions, instead of calling people "liberals" as some kind of derrogatory term. It is rooted in the word LIBERTY, something even conservatives used to believe in. Now it seems as if the "life's not fair" arguement works better for you because you have and millions of others do not. The fact of the matter is that life "is not fair" for millions more Americans than it is not. Maybe sooner than later the majority will be interested in making it honest and fair once again. Until then we live in possibly the most corrupt nation, with the most corrupt health care system on earth, so be proud.
If the definition of your "liberal" term is making life more fair for the less fortunate, where they dont have to choose between feeding their families and bankruptcy from health care, I guess that makes me one. All this time I just considered myself a human being.

Poobah-local81 is no teacher, its cass/jodymac the Kandu employee/owner.
Clarity- The "cracks" in the health care system are far wider than our criminal justice liabilities. Plus what the heck is your "Obviously, if law
enforcement cant solve the problems...can't the liberals." comment all about? What does that even mean in the context of the arguement? Do victims have ights? Sure! Do they have to pay over inflated premiums to a third party company to get police protection? I dont get your comparisons here. IMO your not comparing apples to apples. With all do respect you seem to be kind of ducking the substance of the arguement here. I am waiting for you to argue your philosophy of why our for profit health-care works, and why its better for everyone.
FRED- I have never laughed harder, you are a grumpy frumpy bigoted old white guy. Now your posts make sense , and when I pictured you thats EXACTLY who I thought you were. Thanks for confirming my stereotype. Funniest stuff all night!!

That's what unemployment benefits and savings are for. Union dues are not intended for paying unemployment benefits and as a teacher you should know this without being told.

For your weekend reading and viewing pleasure, this is absolutely golden! The Republicans today almost accidentally passed their own RSC budget! Haha....
-
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/...

Sorry, fred, but I seriously doubt anyone prefers booze and drugs to having health care. Have you ever had a family member or close friend who has become addicted to either alcohol or drugs? These people hate being addicted and wish very much they could remain sober, but it is a disease as surely as cancer is a disease. It can be very difficult for people to demonstrate compassion and understanding for alcoholics and drug addicts, but they need our compassion, understanding and medical treatment services as much as a person with any other disease.

thanks fear--after reading all of your posts I now understand why you feel we need more teachers--you are the perfect spokesperson for the cause

poo--sure they do, as do endless lawsuits that force doctors to carry huge liability insurance. By the way, at 74 I'm still working--one of the reasons is medical care--but--I pay my own way and many, not all, could also pay their own way. unfortunately, some prefer booze, drugs, unemployment, etc. when these are eliminated I'd agree to helping the rest--until then, no

Trying to figure out what safety and law enforcement have to do with adequate care. Please qualify for me Clarity.
Fred you are one comical she-ra. The facts that we spend more per capita on a busted corrupt system is exactly why we need it to change. Single payer systems cost LESS, no one has suggested we give MORE money to the insurance companies/ drug companies are you.
I do like your little grammatical bigoted shot there, not surprising. Almost 50% of our yearly budget is in defense spending. That seems like a sustainable trend doesnt it?
Btw, I will take my Ridgeline and my Accord made in OHIO by American NON-Union labor over any GM POS I have owned in my life. So would just about every single consumer report you can find. Id rather have vehicles that have things crap out.

fred_up, I'm really glad to see a conservative finally acknowledge that we have a serious problem with the health care system in America and that our health care system is not the best in the world. You really are a guiding light for the rest of your conservative friends. Do you suppose that obscenely high insurance and pharmaceutical company profits have anything to do with the high cost of our inferior health care system that fails to cover tens of millions?

--time for my daily laugh, so read a little of the "fear" nonsense--like Honda "quality"--(you can tell it's a Honda because the doors go "crick" when you close them) like the grammar--"there is no books of this such--, "you are not superior enough"--and, it is spelled "restaurant" -- currently the U S spends 15.8% of GDP on health care--the highest amount in the world--thanks to our left-wing friends with their lawyer buddies-- as we are 37th in results, it would not seem more $ would be the answer

(2009 article)Over the past decade, the annual cost of family coverage has risen 131%.
-
The rapidly rising cost of healthcare in this country needs to be addressed. Almost 20% of the school budget deficit is due to the rise in health care costs in one year. Health care conglomerates and insurance companies are making huge profits. Tax payers are funding medical research that only benefits those who can afford it. Businesses are going under due to the weight of trying to provide healthcare to employees. We NEED a single payer,non-profit system. If it is run by government or some kind of private non-profit, I don't care. But our health care system is broken and as much as I wish it were true, the Obama plan isn't going to fix it.

All the jobs lost in the Insurance industry would be made up by employers who arent payinga VAST majority of their employees premiums. No? Why should we care so much about an industry that has DESTROYED so many lives in the USA. 17,000+ people die in the US due to lack of insurance, that is the equivalent of almost 6 -9/11s EVERY single day!!!! Thats not a "liberal" stat its a REAL number. All do respect Carity, this is about morality and human rights for me, not ideology.
BTW we agree that repubs mainly get elected on social issues here , Christians. But what would Jesus say about our health care system geared toward the wealthy and away from the poor?

Outside of 401ks? A lot less invest than dont Ill tell you that.
BTW Clinton, NOT my buddy. I never voted for him, didnt like him in officethought he was a dishonest CROOK. Just hard to argue that those were better times, and principally/financially we were a FAR greater nation then than now. My main reason for HATING Clinton is the fact that he signed NAFTA, passed to his desk by a newly Republican congress I might add.

One of the reasons why Russ Feingold is MY favorite poitician EVER is because he voted against EVERY single trade agreement ,and every single corrupt middle eastern war. He also wants corporate taxes to fall in line and at least tried to fix the campaign donation system. All while being pro- 2nd amendment, and 1st amendment(he was the ONLY senator to vote against the Patriot act)
BTW more middle class folks work than invest. 401ks in my mind are another scam, as was proven in 2008 after the meltdown. Maybe we should privatize soc sec and let the investment bankers destroy ALL of the retirement programs. My mother lost over 150,000 of her 401k in a week that took 20 years to build. Sounds like a god system to me!
I dont quote "liberal" publications, I use FACTS. Especially in health care. There are actual STATISTICS that are researchable about the subject that has ZERO to do with Ideology. Unfortunately they dont support the conservative narrative on the issue.

I almost went on break a minute too soon! It's obvious why some people oppose single payer - the fear mongering done by Republicans at the behest of the insurance and pharmaceutical industry. Both of those industries stand to lose billions of dollars (and Americans save billions) if a single payer system is implemented.

clarity, with fear here it looks like I can take a break. :-)

Healthcare rationing in the United States exists in various forms. Access to private health care insurance is rationed based on price and ability to pay. Those not able to afford a health insurance policy are unable to acquire one, and sometimes insurance companies pre-screen applicants for pre-existing medical conditions and either decline to cover the applicant or apply additional price and medical coverage conditions. Access to state Medicaid programs is restricted by income and asset limits via a means-test, and to other federal and state eligibility regulations. Health maintenance organizations (HMOs) that commonly cover the bulk of the population, restrict access to treatment via financial and clinical access limits.
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act passed in March 2010 will prohibit insurers from limiting coverage to people with preexisting conditions beginning in 2014, which will alleviate this type of rationing.
David Leonhardt wrote in the New York Times in June 2009, that rationing presently an economic reality: "The choice isn’t between rationing and not rationing. It’s between rationing well and rationing badly. Given that the United States devotes far more of its economy to health care than other rich countries, and gets worse results by many measures, it’s hard to argue that we are now rationing very rationally." He wrote that there are three primary ways the U.S. rations healthcare:
1.Increases in healthcare premiums reduce worker pay. In other words, more expensive insurance premiums are reducing the growth in household income, which forces tradeoffs between healthcare services and other consumption.
2.High premiums mean smaller companies cannot afford health insurance for their workers.
3.Failure to provide certain types of care.
During 2007, nearly 45% of U.S. healthcare expenses were paid for by the government. During 2009, an estimated 46 million individuals in the United States did not have health insurance coverage. Further, an additional 14,000 or more people lose coverage every day, due to job losses or other factors

clarity, rationing is one of those politically charged words we should try to avoid when talking about health care. But, OK, for the sake of this conversation, let's use the word rationing. There are many procedures now being done simply to avoid, minimize or document for potential litigation against doctors, clinics and hospitals. We need to fix that. But, I for one do not believe we would need to ration anything beyond what the INSURANCE COMPANIES now ration by use of denial of services. If you want to talk rationing, just look at the horror stories about insurance companies denying coverages. So, let me assume a little rationing would be required for the sake of argument. Would you not be willing to sacrifice a bit of your health care services so that EVERYONE at least has access to health care? Or would you rather exclude tens of millions of Americans from health care so you can keep your quite, by now, inferior health care system for yourself?

Clarity- If you dont believe rationing isnt already happening you are MISTAKEN. All over this country care is "rationed" by insurance companies. Problems that could be WIDELY avoided with preventative care. Remember different demographics exist in EVERY country in the world, not just in the USA , so I am trying to figure out exactly what you mean by "our population" please clarify.
If there are a larger number of poor folks in this nation, there are an entire list of reasons why. Privatized for profit health care being number 1.

Clarity- I offered SEVERAL solutions, the tax structure being ONE. A big one, but ONE. I would be more motivated to have CORPORATIONS pay their way, than individuals.
Just because you read something in 2 conservative newspapers about getting more than they give, doesnt make it true. When you factor in sales tax and fees you pay in life I would like to see that number in reality. I would also like to point out that poverty in this nation has INCRESED since the year 2000, that may have something to do with those "statistics". Plus if that many folks were recieving "entitlements" Republicans would never get elected, EVER!!
More people are unemployed and poor because of free(unfair) trade and health care than ANY other reason, period. Since NAFTA and the other trade agreements were passed MILLIONS of jobs have disappeared. Wonder why you are more interested in stockholders than the American middle"consuming" class? Fascinating,your reasoning is to me!(Yoda speak) Hmmm?

Clarity- I am also wondering why we should continue the most CORRUPT unfair health care system on the planet? I believe as most do that health care is a matter of human rights, not privelidge. So why should employers like yourself be on the hook for the majority of premiums for their employees? Especially when those premiums are IMMENSELY over inflated for insurance companies to make boatloads of CASH?
What about the millions of Americans that pay their insurance in good faith and are denied coverage for any of a hundred BS reasons? Insurance companies pay BILLIONS in salaries each year for their employees to find reasons to DENY coverage to their customers! FACT!
ALL of the statistics point to universal health care as a FAR more efficient system than our IMMORAL for profit system. Infant mortality, diabetis, life expectancy all of them are better in Canada , France, England, Germany any of them are ahead of the USA because their systems are BETTER, their people are healthier.
BTW I do feel healthcare is a RIGHT not a privelidge. So inessence the term "entitlement" applies here. EVERY single person in a so-called "great nation" should have adequate care, period. How great can acountry be if the NUMBER 1 cause of bankruptcy is lack of health care coverage? That includes people that have coverage that get screwed by the insurance carrier. There are more cases of THAT then people with no coverage.
Its not a philosophy its a core belief backed up witha litany of FACT!

clarity: I don't disagree with your statement that more products are made overseas because of the lower cost of production in places like China. However, you say that many companies can not make a profit if they run their production in the US. I would argue that they can still make a profit producing their products in the US, the profit is just smaller than it is when production is shipped overseas. It is the greed of corporations that ships production to China, Mexico, etc. more than the cost of labor here in the US.

Good questions, mrbread. Perhaps the only way to get an answer is to go to a school board meeting and ask them point blank. Bring many other people to ask the same questions so they can't ignore you or blow you off. You still may not get a satisfactory answer.

To the tax structure. In the 1980's and 1990's the USA was successful because of targeted tax INCREASES by both Ron Reagan and Bill Clinton. Thats right, Ron raised taxes, over a dozen times during his presidency.
The Bush tax cuts have been in place since 2000 and we have had NET job loss. Blaming 9/11 for that is a cop out. Our markets absolutely EXPLODED after 9/11 more imaginary wealth was created between 2000 and 2008 in the HISTORY of this country. The financial crisis HAD NOTHING to do with 9/11 that is a FACT! No disrespect intended clarity but that is a miscalculation on your part. the markets were weakened for a couple of months, but rebounded IMMEDIATELY.
I am sick of HUGE companies that reap HUGE profits (GE, Exon, Shell,Pfizer, Metlife) in the Billions pay ZERO taxes NONE, they actually get tax GIFTS, but none of you repubs are screaming about that, you blame public sector unions for fighting for respectable wages and benefits for their members? PATHETIC!
Why are you so oppposed to a 4% increase in taxes for the wealthiest Americans? They will not be moving away if their taxes go from 35 to 39% , its just hyperbole.
Facts are corporations have bought our political system and the great majority of people (90%) feel the pinch because of it. Unless you make 6-7 figure salaries or have a moral reason(abortion) , how could you legitimately support the Ryan plan. It screws the elderly, middle and lower class, and almost EVERY single educator in the nation. I know facts suck, but the truth isnt that hard to find, this country is great if youre wealthy.

Fear, I think that there are two questions you ask to determine your political leaning. What about all of us? or What about me? You fill in the proper affiliations.

How many teachers are in JSD? around 850? If so, 14% of all teachers are being cut? Where are comparable cuts coming at other levels? I doubt administration is being cut by 14% of their staffing. It seems that 125 teachers is a huge percentage, given that the budget shortfall estimate is around 10 percent of annual budget, where are all the other cuts? You can't (as a school board) claim that the cuts that affect students are the last ones you want to make, and then make what is clearly the largest cut to that population. Last I saw, the districts wages (payouts) was around 75 million, of which a little more than half was teachers. Where is the other 35 million dollars or so in wages go? Is cutting teachers really the last option? Or was this option the most popular by the school board to earn concessions from the JEA? These are questions I would like to see direct answers for, especially as the children in the JSD are going to be GREATLY affected by reducing the teaching staff by such a large number.

The problems with any arguements on 401ks fall on deaf ears with me. Mine was almost destroyed by the financial meltdown of 2007-2008. That had NOTHING to do with outsourcing, everything to do with corrupt investment banks and credit ratings agencies. I dont trust the "free market" because its NOT free or fair, its rigged by the most powerful and the richest investors.(Goldman Sachs)
The "global" economy also doesn't hold water with me either. I thought republicans want to create jobs? I am starting to think thats more of a catch phrase than a reality. Almost all of the corporations that moved away were EXTREMELY profitable here BEFORE they outsourced everything, they just found more profits. I find that the trade agreements are a VERY black and white arguement, you either want Americans to work or you want Chinese folks to work for pennies on the dollar. If you set up the same rules for everyone the playing field will be even. Once China holds corporations to labor and environmental standards that the USA holds them to then I am absolutely fine with lifting tariffs. I am fine with globalization as long as the playing field is EVEN and fair for American workers, not investors. I feel that is the philosophical difference between conservatives and progressives. One group cares about American JOBS and the other cares more about Investors. Disagree? prove me wrong.

The uninformed comments by those calling the teachers greedy have to stop. They worked without a contract for years and then get a lousy 1.5% total for the next 3 years.For an average teacher thats $450 a year increase in pay .Doesn't even cover the cost of gas increase for a quarter of a year.The pension is not spendable income and was set up to incourage people to work in this low paid under appreciated profession. Blame the school board for paying school administration staff over $120k a year each plus the same pension and insurance contributions as teachers and for conning us into $100 million in new taxes for schools that will have empty classrooms.Where are the cuts to this highly paid staff who managed us into this mess!!!!

Why don't the republicans call it like it is. They don't want the best public employees, they want the cheapest ones. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

I am tired of listening to people fight with each other....what really needs to happen is for the government to take care of we Americans and not all the other countries. We need to quit sending money to so many countries instead of helping our own people. We need to make the congressmen treat themselves like they want to treat all of us. Make the illegals become legal or go home. Make people on welfare take random drug tests and if they don't pass they don't get the welfare. Start taking care of all of us and get rid of the government waste and perhaps we could quit fighting with each other. So sad!!

vato: Gotcha, like I said, there are negatives to every job. I'm not actually a teacher, public employee, or even a union member at all. I'm just fed up with the lies that have been coming from our state capitol over the past few months. I have great respect for people of all working backgrounds; I myself have worked in some pretty awful conditions with pretty awful hours. I know that it is sometimes hard to get past the rhetoric of the "haves" and "have nots", but when it comes down to it (mostly) all of the people posting here are middle class and should work together, not against each other. Ultimately I don't see the cuts to education, eliminating collective bargaining, and essentially disbanding public unions having a positive effect on anyone.

clarity said, "Finland has a progressive income tax system where EVERYBODY pays in. Not so in the US."
-
The United States tax system is progressive and has been for 60+ years. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but in a progressive tax system there may well be some people not paying taxes (at the LOWER end). The problem are loopholes and breaks which make the EFFECTIVE tax rates look more like a regressive tax system.
-
But, clarity, I think you miss a key point here. With universal, single-payer healthcare, there would be significant savings that could help insure those who can not now afford health care. Get rid of the middle man, the private, highly profitable insurance companies and lower costs through volume purchasing by going single payer. My point is, there will always be people who can not afford health care, and we should not expect everyone to pay taxes or health care premiums if they simply can not afford it. You know as well as I do, we all end up paying more for the uninsured than we do for the insured because they end up using emergency rooms which are terrible expensive.

One of the reasons I finished my degree was so that I wouldn't have to make $30,000 a year anymore. If I graduated (with $40,000 in student loans) and still only made $30,000 per year, I'd be looking for a new line of work (or a new employer at the very least.) If teacher pay is gutted as badly as many people seem to think it will be, I suppose many of our teachers will do the same. They'll seek out new employers, private schools maybe, leave the state, or leave teaching behind entirely.
.
I don't blame teachers for this mess, but I don't blame Gov. Walker either. I think there were many financial missteps that went ignored over the years and this is the mess we're left with. No matter how we try to fix things, someone is going to get hit in the pocket book...laid off teachers, laid off citizens whose taxes just went up, etc.
.
'Right versus left' finger pointing doesn't do a thing to solve the problem...it just distracts people from finding a workable solution. If I'm yelling at you, I'm not listening, and I might just miss a really good suggestion. This, "I'm right, you're wrong; so I'm not listening," behavior is probably a big part of what got us in the mess we're in now.

vato: If you would have actually read my posts you would see that I was talking about the continued cuts that will happen under Walker's plan. Obviously one should not make a decision on employment solely on the amount of money that they make. You did fail to point out the negatives of being a teacher; working long hours beyond the contract, taking work home, having parents belittle you, having to go to the authorities when a child in your class is being abused at home, etc., etc., etc. There are positives and negatives to all jobs, don't act like being in education is all sunshine and lollipops.

Finland actually has free universal healthcare, and free university education for its citizens. They currently are considered to be the gold standard for education, and have a very respectable health care system.

Wando, qualify that a bit. We will see fewer quality educators coming to Wisconsin!

NCC and fear:
That is exactly the point that I was trying to get across. There is nothing wrong with a 30K a year job, especially given the current economy. However, to expect people to settle for those types of positions after spending 4 years and thousands of dollars on an education is wrong. NCC, I completely agree. Once you get your degree you should not settle for just any job, you should make sure that you are getting paid what you are worth. With the cuts that Walker is making we will see beginning teachers making 25K, no doubt about it. I do see a sharp decline in the number of new quality educators coming out of college if these cuts in salary and benefits come through. To expect college grads to continue to go into the field of education would be naive.

The long-term plan, of course, is to create an electorate so stupid that they vote Republican.

Settling for 30k jobs out of college in America, is the most preposterous thing ever! I for one want this nation to be great again, it certainly wont happen by reducing taxes on wealthy people, and destroying Medicare.

Clarity- I would offer solutions , but no one is brave enough to approach them. They are considered too national and broad based.
First, change the tax code. Take ALL corporate loopholes away , if a business/corporation earns a profit, its taxed. No more days of GE RECIEVING 3.2 billion in tax GIFTS for a 14 billion dollar profit.
Tax persons making over 500,000 at the 39% rate that was there during the Clinton years. I was NO fan of Billy, but the nation created 22 million jobs during his presidency.
In the 2000's post Bush era tax CUTS we had net Job creation od less than ZERO. I like the 1990s idea MUCH better.
Second, REPEAL all free-trade agreements IMMEDIATELY. If multi-national corporations would rather employ Chinese workers at 10 dollars a month, let them pay HUGE tariffs to bring their unsafe overvalued CRAP back to Wal-mart for sale. Until we can make trade completely fair for the American worker, I say screw the corporations that outsource jobs in the interest of bottom lines.
Third, bring ALL of our troops HOME NOW! We aren't "defending freedom" in the middle east, never were. All we are doing is making generations of new enemies. Plus we are spending 500 million a day there, multiply that times 356 days a year and thats BIG money WASTED.
Fourth, its time for UNIVERSAL health care. A complete and total PUBLIC system. Why on earth should employers be made to bear the brunt of the cost for their employees insurance. Health Insurance is nothing but a scam anyway. Paying middlemen BILLIONS of dollars, so they can deny coverage/care whenever they see fit. We pay 10 times as much for Insurance now as we did in 2000, and we get worse coverage. Love how its called socialism, and how horror stories of rationed care are spread. Facts are our system is 37th in the world. That is hardly successful. Plus,we spend more per patient than any other country on Earth and for what? We have worse hrealth stats here than DOZENS of countries with socialized medicine, those are FACTS

There is NO books of the such in Janesville SD Fred up, I believe we are in Janesville Wi so you'll forgive me if I havent read the NYC public schools cirriculum. I would also venture to guess that type of reading is slightly more necessary in the BIGGEST city in the country. I am all for it, if parents won't educate their kids the schools certainly should. To shield children from the reality of homosexuality is just ignorance, whether you believe it to be sin or not. Done with your Rhetorical garbage.

Agreed, it is by no means rosy. But, like I said, 30K jobs aren't as hard to come by as you would like to make it seem.

Disregard my last message, I think I know what you were saying. However, 30K in the private sector for a college grad is not like winning the lottery. There are a lot of 30K jobs out there for people with a college degree

clarity: How is 30K in the public sector more than 30K in the private sector?

Who thinks $30K coming out of college is better than other college graduate entry level positions in the private sector? Have you looked since that turn of the century?

Yes, I know. You brought it to light in a very negative manner. I was pointing out there are many others, including the wife and mother of our previous president, who cast same sex marriage in the same positive light as opposite sex marriage.

poo--there was nothing in any of my posts either for or against same sex marriage--I only pointed out what is being taught

fred_up, did you know that the wife of George WALKER Bush, coincidentally a teacher, supports same sex marriage and has encouraged education and awareness to help fight the ignorance and hatred against same sex couples?
-
Oh, and by the way, the mother of George WALKER Bush also supports same sex marriage.

fearand rhetoric--just in case someone else is pecking the keys for you, thought I'd help you out--"bigot"--one who is intolerant of anothers views--sound familiar? As to Barack Hussein Obama, the lyrics are on the 'net--it was being sung in a classroom in NJ I did not, repeat, did not, coin the song. You can also find "Billy has two mommies", "Heather has two mommes", etc.--published about twenty yrs. ago, AND approved for reading in some grade schools--ex. NYC public grade schools (and others). You would really benefit from doing a little reading--

Well, the tone of this discussion has been very civil in the last 30 minutes or so and meaningful. You asked for solutions, clarity, but I'm afraid to risk disturbing the civility with my solutions... I'm sure you know it would involve more involvement of the federal government. Health care costs are a major concern of all persons and employers and we need to get insurance companies out of the mix and provide health care for all Americans and eliminate the ridiculous mountain of paperwork. We also need to have a meaningful national discussion about what we want to be as a nation. We have frequent commissions on entitlements, responses to natural disasters and other disasters of all sorts. But there is never a national discussion about what we as a nation want to be. The politicians conveniently leave this to campaign time - and then it's just all rhetoric without anything meaningful discussed. As you know, I want those who can afford to give more to give more. And I want those who need to be given. There's simply too much wealth in this nation that we can't come up with a solution to this without tearing each other down and accepting less and less as inevitable. Anyway, thanks for the civil discussion.

clarity: 30K isn't anything special. Because of the "tools" Walker provided, salaries and benefits will decline. This will put teachers well behind the private sector. Is this the "different" treatment that teachers get that you were referring to?

clarity: 30K isn't anything special. Because of the "tools" Walker provided, salaries and benefits will decline. This will put teachers well behind the private sector. Is this the "different" treatment that teachers get that you were referring to?

clarity: I'm not saying that 30K is unacceptable, I'm saying that it's going to be hard to get people to want to be teachers if/when benefits and pay continue to decrease. Do you agree?

Also - clarity - this whole line of "happy to have a job" stuff is really weak. Do we not have the right to the pursuit of happiness anymore? Do we not have any ambition? Do we find ourselves so worthless that we can be exploited to the point that we have come to?

It would save the district money if teachers paid more of their health insurance and pensions. But - how about next time you're short on groceries because you overspent, I think you should lower your kid's allowance.
Allow me to explain - the district went into the hole 10 million dollars and then hid it behind Walker (who, incidentally, only added 3 million to the hole). The teachers are not to blame here. The contract was negotiated in good faith, and board agreed to it. They agreed that they had enough money. That is not the teacher's fault. But everyone expects them to pay, which they were actually thinking about doing except once the contract opens...well...

Hey scooby doobie dookie, you dont know me or my deal. this is a random blog for OPINIONS. I make a difference everyday as a PROUD father of three, a member of my child's PTA ,and volunteer at the YMCA. Not that I need to qualify myself to anyone, but your personal shots were unnecessary and unwarranted.
You dont like my posts dont read/respond. I am always up for discussion, I just have to call out uneducated BIGOTS. Anyone who thinks there is some hidden gay agenda at the public schools is the same person that would use "hussien" as a perjorative.
Scooby needs a scooby snack? Discuss the issues, I dare you. Maybe then you'll make some sense. I can respect some folks with different opinions than me, I just dont have tolerance for bigots and idiots.
Stoop to my level? I am not the one saying there is some hidden pro-homosexual agenda, fred up. That is lower than I could EVER stoop. Not to mention EXTREMELY wrong and false.

clarity: Again, with the twisting things and then heading in a different direction. Can you not just answer a question? I'm not sure how old you are, but judging by the fact that you started at $9000/year I'm guessing that you have been out of school for quite some time. If you are at all familiar with the going rate for college graduates in the private sector you might understand that expecting better than 30K and bennies is not out of line at all. In fact, one of the other "tools" that Walker is providing is the ability to lower entry level salaries, so in reality the first year teacher will probably end up making $25K and still have to pay 100% of their benefits.

clarity: Do you think college students would continue to go into the field of education if they knew they were headed toward a job which they started at 30K and had to pay 100% of their benefits?

No takers?

If that is true that those adjustments you mentioned would cover most of the deficit, then do you think these layoff notices are just a formality and there will be no layoffs?

to: fearandrhetoric4dummies

I think you should smile and take a deep breath and find a happy place, somewhere else, put your concerns and rants to use in politics somewhere. This Blog will get you NOWHERE! If you have so much issue with everything do something about it. Mocking people and puckering up this comment line is a waste of your time. Go Make a Difference. Scooby Out.

clarity said, "wando...this has nothing to do with Walker."
-
clarity, are you suggesting that the $900 million Walker is cutting from local education funding has or will have no impact on the Janesville school district budget? Of course, Walker is giving the local governments "tools" to help them recoup that $900 million by cutting costs. Can you please explain to us:

1) just exactly what these tols are

2) how much these tools will and/or have saved Janesville

Thanks.

--"Barack Hussein Obama" was in the classroom chant--I didn't put it there. As to the name calling, I guess you win that--I won't stoop to your level--

BTW- to teach kids that discriminating against anyone, whether they are gay, straight, black, or whatever SHOULD be a part of education. you may object to homosexuality or be a racist, but your kids should understand that discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. Even against people with the middle name hussien.

Fred up- That kind of post just shows your lack of true knowledge of anything to do with education, it also shows that you are a bigot. Anyone who thinks there is some widespread indoctrination happening in public schools is just stupid. You really think that there is some kind of gay agenda? Your use of the presidents middle name as a perjorative is very telling to your personal bigotry and ignorance. My advice, stop being a right wing repeater, you sound like a damn dittohead.
Clarity- the post about the restarounts and pizza places, was REALLY funny, and true! You are wrong about Janesville and their care for the schools. I believe if a referendum were placed before the city to raise revenue to keep teachers specifically, it would pass.

Does anybody want to still tell me how cutting collective bargaining is going to save the state millions?

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/on...

Koch Bros: Gotta say I love your posts, nine times out of ten I actually laugh a little when I read them.

In regards to the massive schools, I agree and disagree that they are the problem. In a sense yes, the buildings themselves have led to the problem in Janesville, especially since we are still paying of the additions to the Parker and that other high school. Had GM went under three years earlier I don't think the remodeling and additions would have been done. However, I think that with the continued cuts to education in the state we will see more and more "conglomerations" composed of multiple cities and towns, especially in more rural areas. This might actually benefit these areas as they will be able to pool their tax bases together and hopefully be able to put together one good district rather than five or six mediocre ones. I don't know if this will really happen, but seeing how much some of the smaller districts are currently struggling, it is a definite possibility.

Thank you clairty

--the argument is rapidly becoming sickening--I attended a one room schoolhouse (it is still standing) and both of my parents taught in one room schoolhouses. Teachers then also had an agenda--it was us, the students.
We were not taught how to use computers or i-pods, nor were we taught "Mary has two mommies" or "Barack Hussein Obama, mmm, mm, mm." We could, however, fill in all of the counties on a Wisconsin map, fill in all the states and their capitals, (yes, there were only 48 then) fill in all the countries on a world map, work a square root problem,practice penmanship and a host of other things.
We had a free hot lunch program--when it was the turn for your family, your mother made a dish and it was heated at school and shared.
Until teachers of today realize that their prime objective is to TEACH--not promote personal agendas, demonstrate, complain, protest, unionize, etc., etc., etc., test scores will continue to decline. In the interim, teachers with such agendas should find another profession. They, and our students, would be better off.

clarity: How is taxing to the max even relevant here? Where did I suggest or even say anything about taxes? Do you understand that you actually are in the minority in this community?

clarity: I find it hard to believe that you didn't get my point. But, here it goes, the city of Janesville is actually more progressive that you seem to believe. Most of the citizens actually care about schools and the quality of education that is offered in the city. Most citizens are unhappy about the number of cuts that are being made in the district. Finally, most citizens would be willing to fork over a few extra dollars to ensure that the quality of education offered remains the same and does not fall due to the amount of cutbacks being made. I'm not saying that everyone will be able to donate $300, but many would be willing to donate what they can.

clarity: Maybe you've missed the last couple elections, the MAJORITY of Janesville does not back Walker. In Janesville Barrett handily beat Walker, and if you are one of those that believe that the Supreme Court election was a referendum on Walker, Kloppenburg was a clear winner over Prosser. Maybe it's just that the "silent majority" in Janesville really is silent, completely silent?

who: I agree, this is not all Walker's fault. Much of the deficit is due to the poor performance of the school board. I have said this in prior posts, and I'll say it again, the board should not have approved the most recent contract. They had to have known that the district was facing a $10 million shortfall, yet they still approve a new contract? That makes absolutely no sense and is why I am amazed that Sodemann was re-elected. He was the president of the school board when these contracts and other fiscal decisions that led to this predicament went through!

However, to put the blame on the teachers is also wrong. The $10 million dollar hole is hardly their fault. If fingers are being pointed they should be directed towards the school board and the administration.

bigfish1 said, "GREAT POST WONDERS ! Facts , hard to ignore..."
-
Just to be clear, there was only one "fact" in his post, the rest of it was hyperbole.

Fear – You say it is Scooters fault. Janesville is already over taxed and they have already borrowed from the fund10. I again post from the Gazette:

Article from October 27, 2010 in the Janesville Gazette.

JANESVILLE — The Janesville School Board finalized this year's budget on Tuesday, dipping into its financial reserves to fill the final budget gap.

At the same time, the board set the school property tax levy at $35.88 million, a 3.17 percent increase from last year.

Some board members had considered pushing property taxes even higher in order to cover at least some of an approximately $2 million shortfall, but no one suggested that Tuesday.

The board voted unanimously to use the Fund 10 balance to cover the shortfall and give final approval to the 2010-11 budget.

Article from December 26, 2010 in the Janesville Gaxette.

It’s far too early to say how many teachers might be laid off. The district is facing a potential budget shortfall of nearly $10 million.
I once again ask how is this Walkers fault.

clarity-when the teachers' contract runs out, they won't have to agree to concessions, they will be forced to. So go ahead and pony-up in advance!

'Drive through ANY teachers parking lot in the area and count the foreign imports versus the American made vehicles'

do you check the VINs to verify theyre imports?? about 80% of all 'foreign' vehicles are built in the united states by american hands. oh yeah, and just last fall GM put 500 million...into a plant in mexico. i dont expect you to expand your thought process all the sudden so maybe just drop the uninformed ignorant posts. ehhh that wont happen either...carry on.

It is PARTIALLY Scooter's fault for taking 5 million in state dollars away. Also for taking away local municipalities power to raise proerty taxes if they see fit. If a city/town decides it to be in the best interest in their community to raise taxes, they should be able to make that decision on their own, not Scooter. Its very hard for me NOT to make the dictator comparisons, because that is what it feels like.

I do think its quite funny when folks call you out on spelling, then go on to do it in that very post! Worth a chuckle!

Yes Mark - I noticed, but I really could care less about peoples gramatics or spelling. More concerned about misplaced blame and flawed thinking.

"yor" LOL. C'mon outoftime!! Let's "heer" from you.

916 how are Madison schools any mors subsidized than any school district? Could you point to a reference that states that for me I would be interested in looking into that.
I do of course understand as I am sure do you, that the bigger districts get more aid because their bigger. They dont get more per capita(student) than we do. So please point to some kind of factual reference or a link for me to follow. I am always glad to read, also always glad to figure out the grey and not just look at black and white.

Good posts, Fear. And by the way, after outoftime chided you for yor spelling, she (he?) went on to type that people have "loss" their job, cannot pay "anymore" rather than the correct "any more," and "over staffed" instead of the correct "overstaffed."

So do you still stand behind your billionaires? Even though they are slowly shifting their operations to China or chinese made goods? Ya great post, except you forgot to look a little harder!
Maybe I should try not to misspell a word so some can tolerate my "igorance" Cheesh!

BTW- I never said tax the folks that are strapped. Tax the folks that can afford it! Tax ME! I can and will be making donations to the JSD. Tax people that have, not the folks that don't. My model is simple raise taxes slightly on the most wealthy. Close down Free-trade with ALL 3rd world nations, make it fair to the American worker. Whats wrong with that?
I dont want to hear another post about the teachers "foriegn made" automobiles, then watch all of you sheep go to Wal-mart , Menards and all of the other big box stores that sell nothing but cheap foriegn made CRAP!
Remember smarties, my Hondas....Both Made in O H I O , not taiwan, China, Mexico. I Would buy products mad anywhere as long as OUR government collected tariffs upon entry to the country.
For those of you that struggle with your LOW tax burden , remember that thenext time you buy anything at Wal-mart that says MADE IN CHINA.

916 since you enjoy bashing
Consider these facts about the Madison Metropolitan School District:
•Expansion Management Magazine, a national business journal, annually ranks Madison among 1% of school districts in the nation, based primarily on graduation rates and college board results.
•Madison is one of the few districts in the country to have schools at the elementary, middle and high school levels rated as National Schools of Excellence by the U.S. Department of Education.
•Madison receives national recognition annually for its outstanding qualities, including 5th best in the nation by Forbes Magazine for business and careers. Education figured heavily in the ranking.
•In its 1997 annual ranking of the nation's 300 largest metropolitan areas, Money magazine named Madison the best place for education.
•Madison Schools have small classes and low student-to-teacher ratios.
•Madison invests more in the classroom and less on administration than other districts.
•An updated Strategic Plan establishes new priorities that reflect emerging challenges.
•Madison's AAA Bond Rating points to the district's sound fiscal management practices.
•Madison students score significantly higher than do other Wisconsin students on the primary college admissions tests, and more Madison students take the test.
•Madison has more than six times the National Merit Scholar Semifinalists than a district this size would have on average.
•Local students outperform their national counterparts on basic skills tests and graduate at a higher rate.
•Fewer children attend private schools in Madison than in other Wisconsin communities.
•Each year Madison has over 50 National Merit Scholar Semifinalists, when a district Madison's size would typically have no more than nine.
•Madison students surpass their state peers in the highest performance category in 14 of 15 tests on basic skills in reading, writing, math, science and social studies at the 4th, 8th and 10th grade levels.
•Madison students outperform other students on the SAT and ACT college entrance exams. SAT scores for Madison students are 20% higher than the United States average, and ACT scores for Madison students are 10% higher than the state average.
•Madison's graduation requirements are higher than the state requirements, and the district's graduation rate is higher than the national average.
•More high school students in Madison take advanced courses, and a higher percentage of Madison students, compared to the state average, pass Advanced Placement (AP) exams, demonstrating college-level proficiency. On the AP exams, 86% of Madison students taking the test earn passing scores, compared to 70% of their Wisconsin counterparts.
•Students from Madison alone comprise 33% of the Wisconsin students named as prestigious Presidential Scholar semifinalists from 1999-2003. Seventeen out of the 51 high school seniors named from throughout the state in this period are Madison graduates.

916WI: Yes, we have a budget deficit in MN, and yes, we'll have to make cuts, but it's about priorities. Education is the future and the MN democrats will try very hard to protect education. It's likely we'll see some tax increases. I don't mind paying more taxes if we can get some top-quality teachers for our kids. The sacrifice is worth it to me.

I cant spell? Okay I am no spelling bee winner but that doesnt meean ANYTHING, is it "coolaid" or Kool Aid? You folks are funny!

Lets get to SC Johnson, one bad apple? They were named best employer in China in 2007! What a distinct honor! I would suggest NOT using the products mad in China because who knows what harm they might do you.
Menards? Well hey if paying HS kids 8 bucks an hour to restock shelves with Chinese made products is "patriotic" then I am on board! Hell they seem to be more like a Locally owned Wal-mart!
Billionaires arent billionaires because they are honest , hard working christians. They are what they are almost exclusively from stepping on entire classes of people to get there. Sure they donate to charities generally for tax write-offs, still very commendable. maybe we wouldnt need so many charities if more working class families could just make a living wage. Nah, need tax breaks for folks that have more money than their grandkids will ever be able to spend.

Where to start? Start by commenting on a person's automobile choice. I own 2 Hondas both made in OHIO! Lat time I checked thats in the United States. Made with NON-union labor. I used to own Chevys my entire life , I got sick of replacing alternators, starters, water pumps, ball joints and the like. My 2 AMERICAN MADE Hondas have a combined 250,000 miles and I have replaced tires, spark plugs, and changed oil. Ill take that quality over General Motors Garbage made by drunken employees anyday. If teachers "choose" actual foriegn mad crap then its their choice. I thought repubs were all about that.
Second, free trade has absolutely DECIMATED the middle class in this state. 75,000 to 100,000 jobs have been lost because of NAFTA alone(signed by Bill Clinton). Tax Billionaires FAIRLY? Yes I am all about it, because they can certainly afford more. A 4% increase on their income taxes isn't uprooting them to another state OR country. Have some of these billionaires had a positive effect on the state? ABSOLUTELY! Does that mean we should somehow give them tax breaks because they run a corporation? ABSOLUTELY not! I am sick and tired of bribing businesses to stay here with tax dollars. You people piss and moan about your taxes being too high, yet are fine with the govt of Wis giving 20 million dollars in tax gifts to Sub-Zero? Or hows about bribing Harley to stay? Millions more? We lost Thomas industries to Louisiana because they out bribed us and they promised Thomas ind lower wage standards, nice ethics. You people can bow to the feet of these billionaires all you like I say they pay more or move to one of the 3rd world countries that they make their products in.
While your busy getting all teary eyed about Kohler, I would ask you to look up their manufacturing locations. They have been steadily INCREASING their Chinese presence, 5 factories, soon it will all be over there. Maybe we should bribe them to stay too? Forget schools, spend tax dollars on corporate bribes! and I am the dumba$$? 18,600 of Kohlers 30,000 employees work outside the USA!

Fear, you need to just stop typing. First, you can not spell! Second, do not generalize that the people posting must be former GM workers that are upset about losing jobs. Just because somebody loss their job and lives in Janesville does not mean that they worked at GM. Some of us truly can not pay anymore in taxes. It's hard to give more money if you can barely pay for things you already have. If this subject is so dear to your heart then you fund the money and correct all of the wrong doing! It may come as a shock to you, but some of us are educated beyond high school. Back to the real subject. Bottom line is that cuts need to be made and things need to be restructured in the schools. If the number of students dropped then we are over staffed. They need to be cutting the right people.

GREAT POST WONDERS ! Facts , hard to ignore...

I don’t think some research before they act. Wisconsin has 9 billionaires as of March 11 2010, yep that’s right 9. So if I read some posts you want those 9 to support Wisconsin? Well heck why not?
How many jobs have been created by poor people? How many jobs have been created by those 9 billionaires?
Let’s see who some of them are shall we? Herb Kohler, gee I wonder how many jobs he has created in Wisconsin? The Kohler family almost single handedly put an entire town on the map.
John Menard, how many Menards are there? I bet you have gone to one and may even know some that work there.
SC Johnson, other than one bad apple in that family how many jobs have they created?
An untimely death took ken Hendricks, another billionaire that created how many jobs?

Yeah let’s tax these people higher for making something and helping to employ thousands, GREAT IDEA
In the words of Red Foreman dumb ass

Article from October 27, 2010 in the Janesville Gazette.

JANESVILLE — The Janesville School Board finalized this year's budget on Tuesday, dipping into its financial reserves to fill the final budget gap.

At the same time, the board set the school property tax levy at $35.88 million, a 3.17 percent increase from last year.

Some board members had considered pushing property taxes even higher in order to cover at least some of an approximately $2 million shortfall, but no one suggested that Tuesday.

The board voted unanimously to use the Fund 10 balance to cover the shortfall and give final approval to the 2010-11 budget.

Article from December 26, 2010 in the Janesville Gaxette.

It’s far too early to say how many teachers might be laid off. The district is facing a potential budget shortfall of nearly $10 million.

I once again ask how is this Walkers fault.

In light of Walker's bad experience during his short college stint, I can certainly see why he and his lap dogs on this site have it in for education and those who are educated. Very sad to see these cuts to Janesville's programs. It will certainly have a negative impact on kids. I hope all of those who are losing their jobs are able to land on their feet.

Fearandrhetoric........You can't be that ignorant....."The most liberal city in the state" is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer dollars that come from hundreds of other cities in Wisconsin. If the "lesson or three to be learned", is to have the largest state university and all of the state government offices along with the millions of taxpayer dollars injected into your cities economy directly because of this is your idea of a "lesson", it really does fall a little short. I know you like hearing yourself talk, but seriously?

By the way don't think I want this crap to happen to the kids, but I do think its the teacher fault for being greedy and not taking the cuts everyone else got. Stop blaming everyone else because there's cuts, its not a surprise.

I have to disagree that Madison is the best place to live. The Madison schools are doing poor financially. It is the suburban schools such as Middleton that are doing well and it is because they have a much better tax base and growing enrollment. Schools that have growing enrollment are the ones that are doing fine because they can justify the yearly increases in costs. Districts that have declining enrollments, such as Janesville will have to cut in order to right size themselves. It is painful for those getting cut, but they need to look at relocating to the growing disricts.

fearandrhetoric4dummies ....that is a perfect statement from that gentleman! Thank you for sharing that. He is accurate --- I agree with both of you. I'm sick that we're losing Title 1 and special needs teachers. Even more than counselors, these people ARE NEEDED!! Can anyone tell me what the school's administration is doing to help the budget crisis? Are they taking any cuts (salary? benefits?) I haven't seen a thing about what they have to sacrifice. And the thought of 3 charter schools, when we already have some and are in a budget "crisis" makes me sick as well! Really? Do we really need those? If so, I would certainly hope that they hire the teachers and staff that are being laid off. They are beginning with the wrong group of people to lay off. I don't think any group is right, but there certainly are expenses that could be contracted out and a much less of an expense.

MN Mom......I find it absolutely comical that you can come in and pass judgment on what our governor is doing. Rather than address spending, when Minnesota is facing a $6 billion deficit--their governor's great plan to resolve this is to "tax to the max"! Minnesota will soon have some of the highest tax rates in the country. Hardly an incentive for business to expand now, is it?

Thexcessive benefits arguement doesnt work for me. Whose fault is it that the inflation rate for benefits is 2 times that of regular inflation? Benefits rising at astronomical rates is NOT the fault of the educators, its the fault of all you suckers that think a privatized health care system is the way to go. Like gas I hope that soon all of you are broke because the greed and arrogance of these companies drives the price up the value downa and all of your finances in the crapper then maybe youll realize what youre doing.

I would also like to point out that the city of Madison , being the "liberal" bastian that it is. HAs a private fund for their schools that donates tens of thousands every single year to help their schools keep many of their fine-arts programs, and engineering programs. One of many dozen reasons that its a much better place to live than Janesburg.
Funny how the most "liberal" city in the state is the best place to live huh? Maybe we might want to learn a lesson or three from them?

The Janesville school district is in financial trouble because of a multitude of reasons.

Fiscal mismanagement, the QEO, excessive benefits, declining enrollment & loss of tax base.

The only ways to get out of this are to cut spending and/or raise taxes. It appears that taxes will be raised due to the revaluation of properties. Now it is time to cut spending. 80% of a districts budget is salaries and benefits, it only makes sense to start there.

This appears to me to be some bitter former GM employees pitted against the teachers because they havent lost their jobs too. Befor we were all jealous of the GM/UAW workers that could get hammered on the job and be protected by their union. Now the same folks attck teachers? How many teachers could go to Zackow's and pound back a half a bottle of Vodka in 30 minutes and go back and teach, and be protected? NONE! You people are just PATHETIC!that is the major difference between private sector unions and public sector.

BTW any working class person that votes republican is voting agianst their own economic interests, period. Taxing imports highly to prevent corporations from moving will help US(Americans) get back to work. How could any middle class person in their right mind support Repubs like Ron Johnson, that continues to speak out loud about investing in China? Wisconsin has lost over 150,000 manufacturing jobs to China alone!!

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/9999...
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/9999...

Where are the cuts to employees who do not help the kids? I'm pretty happy right now that I chose to apply for open enrollment OUT of Janesville for my daughter. There are plenty of ways to save money without cutting key and essential positions within a school. And how in the world can the Superintendent and School Board validate operating a school with less than 250 kids (Harrison). I mean come on!! Just wait Janesville School Board and Ms. Schulte - as money leaves with your students to districts who have a higher regard for education. Mine will be one of the first to leave.

I grew up in Janesville, but live in MN now. We are about to embark on strategic planning for our school district and I have urged our leaders that will be planning for our future staffing workforce to consider recruiting high-performing teachers from Wisconsin. Our democratic governor would not allow what's happened in Wisconsin to happen in Minnesota. We particularly could use good math and science teachers.

Who- there wasnt a 10 million dollar shortfall! The state cut aid by over 5 million dollars! Lets also NOT keep saying the fund 10 balance as "borrowing" from the district. if anything the district has borrowed that money from the teachers. Dont believe it? Why not ask a board member how the fund was created? Ask them what an "insurance holiday" is, I think you might find it interesting.

BTW any and every single job lost in education and the public sector counts against Scooter's 250,000 farce of a promise. The jobs that are being eliminated like the ones in the district are professionals that make a decent wage, and they will be replaced by temporary Stoughton trailer jobs at 10 bucks or less an hour? Talk about a state in reverse!

Vigalany

Your kidding I hope, I've worked 33 yrs for unions thats what they do. The problem is not a secret, teachers loose there license as often as Haley's comet shows up. 2% of public school teachers get fired compared to 10% of private school teachers. from DOE Maybe read the "Natioanal council on Teacher Quality Report good read.
Google the subject if your serious about stats. its not one sided issue either. Huffpo has a nice artical, and it usually costing over $100,000 per case.
By the way your union had revenues over $25mil in 08 with lots of money going to the very guys who negotiate your wages and benefits. By the way these guys are the ones suppose to represent the rest of us also. (Cullen}
Maybe thats why so many working class people do vote Republican.

Dear God,
Please help the wealthy and greedy to stop taking away from those who have made it their life's choice to serve the community and to help your children learn. Please help them to understand that Christian values don't point to a society where the wealthy flourish and the poor are made to struggle even further.

Wait..... I have a better idea, instead of writing to God for help, maybe the people whining about high taxes(they're not) they might consider that dragging down Public ed is a BAD thing for the community, just as is degrading TEACHERS. They SHOULD make a nice salary WITH benefits , thats the least society can do for them for all they do for us.
A small side story; I was having a conversation with an elderly gentlemen who labeled himself as a conservative somewhat to the right of Cheney. We started talking about schools and taxes. His words to me were,"I dont think a majority of the state workers should have these lavish benefit packages. However, when it comes to teachers,police, and firefighters I want to pay more taxes and pay those folks MORE, because those are jobs that I would NEVER want to do, nor could I do. I think they are the most UNDERPAID professions in society."
I found that statement to be not only surprising from this man, but almost stunningly accurate. Yet , our commnity/state/nation just continues to piss and moan about taxes, when we are taxed at the lowest rate since the 1950's! No wonder there are problems! Between all of the manufacturing jobs being shipped away tax-free to 3rd world countries, and the corporate tax welfare system currently advocated by both political parties, we have a revenue problem, plain and simple. I say forget taxing iundividuals, tax corporations that move away. Make it so expensive to bring their CRAP back here that they have to stay. Free-trade agreements arent free and they certainly aren't fair. I would go so far to say they are un-American and have rendered over 20 million Americans unemployed. Its high time to shift the burden hwere it should be, to the system cheaters that are ruining america. That doesnt include teachers.

This is not the fault of the teachers completely. This is also the fault of our school board who can't seem to keep track of funds properly. Shocks me to think that some are business owners. Hard decision to make but the teachers should have opened their contract and took the hit of having to pay into their benefits. Many people in Janesville took harsh hits these last few years and have made sacrafices just to survive. My spouse lost his job in 2008 and my hours were cut for over a year, plus my insurance premiums went up. We moved forward, I guess survival of the fittest. There should have been cuts at the administrative level. Start with Karen. She does a poor job and is over paid. I have no time for her because she had no time for me as a parent with a child in school.

if all the librarians are cut who will teach our youth about the dewey decimal system??

Dear God,

Please look over the people whom their lives have been effected by these trying times. Guide them with your wisdom and lead them to better times. Look after those that need help and take forgiveness to those whom speak out in anger and prejudice. Janesville must endure these hard times and focus on a the good that is so hard to find. Give hope and courage to the honest, and provide all with a warm heart.

AMEN

I have read most of the posts and once again this has turned into a Walker bashing because of the collective bargaining issue. Will someone please explained to me what why Walker is at fault for the $10mil shortfall for the Janesville School system that was there before Walker was ever elected. This was coming to a head this year with or without Walker. This has been coming for years. Now it's time to face the music for all the mistakes the board has done over the pass several years.

"The tax which will be paid for education is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up if we leave the people to ignorance."
-Thomas Jefferson

assetbuider said, "They are also losing many grant funded positions like the Alcohol and Drug Counselor/Coordinator, youth advocates and social workers. Basically all of the studen's support systems will be gone."
-
This is really pathetic. It is reminiscent of the Reagan years as Governor in California when he systematically closed mental health hospitals and then as President when he de-funded community-based mental health facilities. The people living in these facilities were put out on the street. Homelessness, along with crime, increased.
-
Taking away any type of support system from people in need of them is folly. We all end up paying a far higher price in the long term. As more and more families struggle and are unable to pay for adequate health insurance, these services are needed even more. A very sad day, indeed.

I am a teacher and I can tell you FOR A FACT that many of the teachers I know (including me) would not have agreed to a raise if we knew this was coming down the line. It was very stressful to make the decision about keeping the contract closed but we were concerned about losing it all together (and all of the non-monetary items it includes) if we made changes. I know that some teachers next year are planning on setting up an automatic donation of their raise (or some other potentially higher amount) to be removed from their paycheck to help the district. And teachers are doing that because they care! I am deeply saddened by the loss of so many great teachers. I am terrified about what will happen next year especially when I see teachers that were not cut just leaving because they can't take it anymore. The stress of being a teacher in Janesville is very real. I can't believe how many hateful people are out there that want me to accept full responsibility for this situation and deal with it on my own - as if the future generations of people in Janesville have no impact on them!
This isn't our fault. Don't even try and tell me that the teachers’ contracts SUDDENLY resulted in a 13 million dollar deficit. I would love to see exactly what decisions the school board made that resulted in that deficit. If they approved of a contract knowing this was going to happen (as the board president suggests) then they shouldn't have approved them in the first place. Send it to a mediator! But if this was an elaborate "I told you so" move by our board then shame on them. But I tell you, I'd really like to see the math behind this. Something just isn’t adding up. End rant.

I know that 4 secretaries and 2 clerks will be cut at the ESC. They are also losing many grant funded positions like the Alcohol and Drug Counselor/Coordinator, youth advocates and social workers. Basically all of the studen's support systems will be gone.

@pro-walker- There is no exodus to the private sector because believe it or not, teachers do love their professions. Logic alone should tell you why kids might learn more but I'll spell it out for you- you can hire any 14 year old to "babysit" for $3.00 per hour- little harder to get a qualified, Master Degree teacher to babysit.

Analertcitizen: "By the way, the kids might actually learn something too. " Why would the schoolkids learn more because you are making more? Your logic is skewed. And if teachers have it soooo bad with their "meager" wages, why isn't there just a mass exodus into the private sector? Could it be that you guys have a pretty good gig and you're hellbent on keeping it that way?

redtop-still waiting for those stats...

Now complain about teacher's salaries and benefits? Remember back in the days when an 18 could sit in a classroom as a senior and do very little work only to graduate and go to work at the GM plant or another business and make more within 3 months than their teacher's made after 20 years. Anyone remember those days? I do

Here we go I'm surprised it took this long to bash GM workers, yet there money helped pay your wages, and G.M. payed lots of taxes to the city. You now if it was so great at G.M. you could have come down and tried it out.

No doubt, poobah. It is sort of nice to expose the ignorance in the opinions of the people who choose opposition on a topic because their favorite TV personality tells them to. I think if they actually knew some of the teachers personally they might find the fortitude to form their own opinions based on reality.

Said best by Guns N Roses...
"What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach...
So, you get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it!
Well, he gets it!
N' I don't like it any more than you men(women)." Its about that simple...Agree?? Trying to get these people to pay attention and listen up is like raising your child!

*Heard this somewhere and thought it fascinating.
Pay Master Degree teachers a good babysitter's wage of $3.00 per hour and do not include any benefits. That would total $120.00 per week. The catch is that you would have to multiply that by 30 students per class- totaling $3600.00 per week. Still no benefits though. I'll take that deal any day of the week. Of course, Bachelor Degrees should only make $2.00 per hour totaling only $2400.00 per week. By the way, the kids might actually learn something too. We need to stop complaining about the meager earnings of teachers

" If you told anyone 2 years ago that a 2% raise is lucrative and teachers are too rich, they'd laugh you off the "

That was then this is now, times have changed and the Union should have changed with the times to avoid this disaster, and to now cry foul is just goofy.

Vigilandy, I hope you aren't holding your breath for redtop49 or any of these other teacher bashers to produce any accurate statistics or facts. They can't do it because their "facts" exist only in their imaginations -- still resonating with the intonations of Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Palin. Bachmann and O'Reilly.

redtop49-I wonder if you have any statistics that support your claim that unions protect "bad teachers." If so, please share. Also, if you you could define what a "bad teacher" is, and outline what the district does in the case their is a "bad teacher," please provide some concrete evidence...

Now complain about teacher's salaries and benefits? Remember back in the days when an 18 could sit in a classroom as a senior and do very little work only to graduate and go to work at the GM plant or another business and make more within 3 months than their teacher's made after 20 years. Anyone remember those days? I do.

The teachers signed their contract before the election. They did not sign it to avoid the governor's whatever. When you criticize teachers for stuff like this, you sound like ignorant idiots. Also, try not to use Republican talking points terms like "unsustainable" when talking about budgets and "lucrative" when talking about contracts. If you told anyone 2 years ago that a 2% raise is lucrative and teachers are too rich, they'd laugh you off the island.

Nicksmom is right.
I remember when they were negotiating the contract the teachers saying even though the towns people are broke (G.M. Lear.....) that they should get raises because they didn't get what they deserved when times were good because of the limits set by the state. I remember thinking wow what an attitude, the teachers should remember the only reason many of these kids are still here is because there parents can't sell there house, and follow there Father, or Mother to wherever they transfered to.

Really why do teacher need a union? they have a monopoly they get your tax money even if you send your kids to private school. The only reason is to protect bad teachers.
If you people want to see how a good school works visit a private school in town, the admin. is the Principle and a secretary and the parent run everything else.

redtop: You're apparently missing a lot. There are plenty of reasons that the JEA did not open their contract, just read a few comments on the boards here. One of the sticking points for not opening the contract was that the board and administration would not guarantee that the money saved from contract concessions would even be used to save jobs.

Feel sorry for the Janesville teachers? Not a chance. Janesville has been devastated by the economy and what did the teachers do? Push through a contract to avoid Walker's insurance and pension contributions, which if accepted would have saved the district millions as well as preserved jobs. And now you want taxpayers to help bail you out with $300 voluntary contributions? Let this be a lesson to all of you about greed. Shame on you Janesville teachers!

I'm I missing something didn't the union have a chance to open the contract to save jobs? What did they think was going to happen, even the UAW new when to give in to fight another day. When is the left going to get another talking point the one about corporate taxes is played out, U.S. companies are soon to be the highest taxed in the world and many are moving out as will the richest 2% there always talking about. You know I'm far from rich but I find it funny when people point a finger and say he should pay or she should pay they can afford it, but now it's the teachers turn, and all hell is breaking out.

Why are there no cuts to administration? Why do we need 2 asst.principles in any school? When I graduated from Craig we had one asstant and that was all we needed, when did that change? The biggest issue is workers fighting workers and the wealthy getting tax cuts.I don't mind giving my fair share. Why don't the rich see it this way, oh thats right GREED IS GOOD. More for the wealthy less for everyone else.This is how revolutions start but those in power never seem to understand that until its to late.

Sorry to be so negative. I don't have the answers either. Unfortunately this is a horrible situation and Save Janesville Schools is making an effort - which is more than anyone else seems to be doing. I apologize.

vatoloco said, "poobah-Unfortunately I have my own family and I do not have time to help the less fortunate."
-
But yet you have time to sit on here and make ridiculous comments all day long about democrats, teachers and unions? Right...

vatoloco said, "I was not aware that Cullen was involved in holding budget hearings about the City of Rockford's budget."
-
As long as you have time to make ridiculous statements like that, I'm surprised you haven't yet contacted me via my profile page to accept the offer I made to you about two weeks ago to help less fortunate people in the Janesville area. You always are touting less government intrusion into the lives of people and more community and citizen responsibility. I offered to match your contributions to any local charity or to share the cost of medical bills for someone that needs medical services and can't afford them. You went silent after my offer...

Perhaps privatizing education in this state is the solution if we can't/won't adequately fund public schools anymore.

Would you not think our highly educated administrators would find a more diverse group to cut? Is it really a good idea to cut all of one group out and not touch other areas, such as cut some fat from the top? Why are their no clerical only positions on that list. Couldn't we cut some of those and make things easier on the kids? Maybe they are cutting these particular jobs in order to further inflame the public. A veiled plea, don't hurt the kiddies donate money! There has to be a better mix of jobs cut, this makes no sense at all.

Yes Local81 is full of it; I am a teacher and I do NOT pay $75 dollars per check to union fees and i am a full time teacher. As a matter of fact, I pay $1050 less than he/she does per year if that is the case!!

Can't Gov. Walker help? Isn't he the "job creator"?

It's sad to me that Parker High School sophomore Colin Murdy has more sense than the adult decision makers - he's right, and his sentiment is only the tip of the iceberg.

"The group has decided it will rely on the school board and administration to decide how to use the money by determining what positions and programs would best support district students, Rundle said." oops............later, when you wonder why nobody would donate money to your cause, please refer back to that statement. This was supposed to be an independent group, run by parents and business people from our community...what difference does that make, when in the end all the funds will just be turned over to the JSD to do whatever they want with it?

*My post below was directed toward local 81 only. Sorry.

In every workplace there are people who are angry, bitter and difficult to work with and everyone wishes they were gone.Schools are no different. From your posts, I suspect you may be one of those people and no one is sorry you're leaving.

If Local81 is a teacher in Janesville then god help our children! Local81 let me know what school you will be going to so I will make sure that my children never go there! Are you sure you don't want to bring up contracting out to Kandi oh I mean Kandu again? Your two sticking points are really making you look foolish.

Arn't all teachers for "learning support"?

liverpool....Your comment, "He got the little people fighting and will use the opportunity to screw every middle to low income person in this state" makes no sense at all. You're looking at a very small group within the middle class (possibly 7-8% who are unionized public employees) and claiming that they represent the middle class of Wisconsin. They don't. I consider myself and almost all of my friends middle class Wisconsinites, and there is no fighting among us. We support Walker and his policies. Wisconsin tax rates are already too high--income tax and property tax rates are 25% above the national averages. What we have here is a very small group of Wisconsin's workforce doing a serious amount of screaming. Seriously, what did the union expect when they demanded 100% taxpayer financing of their pensions, 97% taxpayer funding of their HC premiums and 2% taxpayer funded raises in a district facing a $13 million deficit. This act alone is a demonstration of how disconnected from reality they are. I know their battle cry of "tax to the max" was one way they planned on covering the shortfall. Unfortunately for them the rest of the middle class is already "taxed to the max". We simply cannot afford it anymore. The sooner the unions come to terms with this, the better off everyone will be......

The proposal to have a teacher do AD duties mentions in last paragragh, "teach three periods and have two preparation periods". Please explain why if you teach three periods you need two preparation periods. That sounds like a lot of preparation time to me.

BellagioBound--As usual, you don't understand the topic. There is nothing wrong with conservative, non-union members having money. The problem comes when Der governor decides that those who Do have money don't have to pay any taxes, while those who make $35,000 a year and pay out thousands of dollars each year for their own medical bills (YES, I have the bills and receipts to PROVE that we pay those medical expenses, despite the lies from the right wingers to the contrary) have to pay the tax share of those wealthy people. Get it now?

Senator Cullen is holding an informal budget hearing on Wednesday April 20th from 1:00 to 5:00 at Blackhawk Tech! Here's a link to a FB post...

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/even...

This is what the taxpayers have to put up with because the union refused to re-open the contract and because the School Board doesn't have a pair of cojones between them all enough to force the issue. That's right: screw the kids because the union is acting like it's 1947 instead of 2011 and the Board is totally clueless. In the end it's only the kids and the taxpayers that are gonna end up taking it up the backside and we all know it. Parr's really done a helluva job looking out for his members, and the Board has really done a helluva job mismanaging the budget knowing that the state is broke. Way to go, guys......way to go.

Local81 is jodymac,cass, and not very intelligent. If you really were an educator I would consider that you be fired becaue you are not superior enough mentally to tech elementary kids. You and your posts are just silly, and getting sillier.

local 81 is probably one of the few teachers that voted Republican as her hatred for the union clearly shows. If local81 truly is a teacher, some say she may be an imposter, than I hope someday local 81 will realize the injustice Republicans have caused and the unions have only tried to help. Until that day arrives I am glad she is not teaching any children as she must be incompetent to think otherwise.

loco81-I think you are the first person to effectively write what a drunk person sounds like. Your posts are weird and unsettling. The people responding to your posts are NOT really voices in your head...We are people that are trying to find their way just like you are attempting to do. We live this everyday; you read about it in the gazette everyday. There is a big difference...and stop drinking while your posting.

Local81 is not a teacher. She used to be Cass, then another name I've already forgotten, and when that one was deleted also, she came back as Loco - I mean Local81. She spews the exact same misinformation. It's pretty easy to detect.

local81 you speak about the "union" as though it is one person you have a personal beef with. I am part of that same union and I am far from happy about the lay offs. Giving our dues to save a job... what cut the Jea gets would hardly save any. I am not sure where you get your information? As far as someone unqualified filling your position you also should know that is not true, any person filling a position must be qualified for that position. Maybe they just are not as nice as you are? Our union not only serves the needs of it's members it serves the needs of our students, I would think you would know that. (class size, programs, resources etc.) I hope you find some kind of peace with the world you seem a little confused. :)

boss walker is sitting in the 16000 sq ft 34 bedroom mansion on the lake laughing at all the little people of Wisconsin fighting amongst eachother. He got the little people fighting and will use the opportunity to screw every middle to low income person in this state. After leaving this States people in ruins, the boss will move on to national political stardom and/or will profit by political payback from those wealthy individuals he helped get even more wealthy at the expense of the little people.

Hi analertcitizen

loco81: If you are a teacher (which I highly doubt), the person that will be stepping into your position is most likely a guidance counselor or LMC staff member that originally was a licensed elementary ed. teacher. This person has retained their license even though it was not required for their current position. I would love to hear you explanation as to how they are not qualified....

First - teacher is not capitalized - are you sure you're one?
Second - not qualified? right - how is that? Maybe you should be contacting the school board.

Hi Sluggo

analertcitizen - they were in school benefiting from a free and appropriate education ;)

I have posted this before on another blog. All of you people complaining about teachers salaries and benefits, where were you when teachers made substantially less than anyone else?
*I was a teacher and chose my profession later in life so that I could stay home and raise my kids. When I started working I made a little over $20,000 per year plus benefits. My son was a recent college graduate what landed a job at $35,000 per year plus excellent benefits and I didn't complain because I chose my profession.It took me 12 years to catch up to what he started at. I figured it out one time and, allowing for summers off (while I paid for classes to keep my license), I made $10.00 per hour less that he did. Happy for him and didn't complain. Now that the private sector has experienced a downturn, everyone's complaining. Where were you back then?

I_luv_jville - cool link, check this part out:

"(h) Library media services. Each school district board shall:

4. Provide library media services to all pupils as follows: to pupils in grades kindergarten through 6, library media services which are performed by or under the direction of licensed library and audiovisual personnel; and to pupils in grades 7 through 12, library media services which are performed by licensed library and audiovisual personnel."

"I is a kallege stoodent frum Jansvile" So to be in a slogan for Janesville, because we have to cut teacher! What a shame, maybe Milton isn't to far to drive everyday?

"I is a kallege stoodent frum Jansvile" So to be in a slogan for Janesville, because we have to cut teacher! What a shame, maybe Milton isn't to far to drive everyday?

Loco81/jodymac/Cass/whateveryournextscreenidwillbewhenyougetbootedoffagain - don't try to pretend you are a teacher. If you were, you would know the amount of union dues per year and you would also understand that of those dues, very litttle actually goes to the JEA. NEA takes their cut as does WEAC as does the local uniserve. Get a clue or get off the boards.

i_luv_jvl, seems to me Walker would simply order modification of administrative code to accommodate the effects of his $900 million in education cuts. He had such little concern for public employees and the Senate absolutely no concern for open meeting laws, why would they not just re-write the administrative code?

N24? Did you attend the public meeting on Save Our School? The teachers are already leading the drive. I'm not sure what you're saying when they are the team leaders already.

I think the school board needs to take a look at the state standards. Perhaps we need to email the link to them:
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/code/pi/p...
It looks to me like they are in violation.

Here are the state requirements for library media:
(h) Library media services. Each school district board shall:
1. Have on file a written, long−range plan for library services
development which has been formulated by teachers, library and
audiovisual personnel and administrators, and approved by the
school district board.
2. Designate a licensed library media person to direct and
coordinate the district’s library media program.
3. Provide library facilities within the school building and
make available to all pupils a current, balanced collection of
books, basic reference materials, texts, periodicals, and audiovisual
materials which depicts in an accurate and unbiased way the
cultural diversity and pluralistic nature of American society.
4. Provide library media services to all pupils as follows: to
pupils in grades kindergarten through 6, library media services
which are performed by or under the direction of licensed library
and audiovisual personnel; and to pupils in grades 7 through 12,
library media services which are performed by licensed library
and audiovisual personnel.

Loco - YOU did not pay the union dues. The teachers did, out of their own pay. Go away.

PI 8.02 Compliance audits. (1) The department (DPI) shall
conduct an inquiry into compliance with the standards upon
receipt of a complaint and may, on its own initiative, conduct an
audit of a school district.

When I was a teacher, I felt my union dues served me very well. My reps helped to keep my classroom environment most conducive to learning. They relieved me of things like lunch duty during my prep so I could build meaningful lessons. They allowed me input into the school calendar each year. They helped to bargain lower class sizes so I could be more successful in a classroom of students that demanded my attention. The list is long of how much they did for me and my students. I'd have paid three times as much for what it provided for me.

totellthetruth: If you don't understand what the members get in return for their $750 in dues you should not be making any comments about the situation.

"Any successful economic development strategy will require a strong integration of the private sector and our educational institutions. Despite the national recession, job creators still report difficulty finding enough highly qualified workers in all industries. This is why we must ensure that investments in our schools align with our job creation goals." - Scott Walker
-
http://www.scottwalker.org/issues/jobs
-
"Walker is proposing cutting education aid by about $900 million, or 9 percent statewide."
-
http://politics.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.h...
-
There you have it in a nutshell, folks.

Local - you completely made that up.

Cass: Will you ever learn to speak the facts instead of wild, fictitious statements?

Okay, I found the state guidelines. Tell me if you think the district can meet these terms with one couselor in the whole district:
(e) Guidance and counseling services. Each school district
board shall provide a program of guidance and counseling services
for all pupils, which meets all of the following requirements:
1. The school district shall maintain a school board approved
plan for the provision of a program of guidance and counseling
services.
2. The program shall be developmentally based and available
to every pupil in every grade of the school district.
3. The program shall be:
a. Systematically planned by licensed school counselors in
collaboration with other licensed pupil services staff, teachers,
parents and community health and human service professionals.
b. Provided by licensed school counselors in collaboration
with other licensed pupil services staff, teachers, parents and community
health and human service professionals.
4. The program shall provide developmentally appropriate
educational, vocational, career, personal and social information to
assist pupils in problem solving and in making decisions.
5. The program shall include pupil appraisal, post−secondary
planning, referral, research and pupil follow−up activities.
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/code/pi/p...

There is a place to report non-compliance.

OMG, seriously? One in the whole district? Surely you jest!

Looking at the DPI website. I'm sure there is a mandate of some sort to provide counseling services for our students. I don't think our district is complying if they've cut all counselors.

Local81: Teachers don't pay 1800 dollars a year in unions dues! It's around 750 dollars a year. Quit spewing information if it's not accurate!

State requirement is one per DISTRICT. Schulte says there will be one for the DISTRICT to cover all the elementary, middle and high schools. She like most of the board members have no clue what they are doing to this district.

Isn't there a state requirement for Counselors? How can they do that?

Local81, you are a national treasure. On one hand you blast the union leadership because they've negotiated salaries and benefits that you feel are way too high so you want to take away their collective bargaining rights. And on the other hand, you are suggesting the dues teachers pay are extraordinary. Well, using your own logic, it is apparent the unions are doing a good job for the teachers. Great logic there, buddy.

Nice Fred. Very caring.

To the poster who wanted to know what was cut at Craig.
4 counselors- That's right no counselors left in the building
3 English teachers
3 special ed teachers
2 science teachers
All librarian/LMC staff
2 art teachers
1 business teacher

Teachers and parents are asking the board and Schulte how is this going to work? Her response is "oh it will get done. People will just have to deal with it.
I personally have pulled our 3 kids out for next year and have been accepted to Milton. Yeah!!

Wrong. There are approximately 800 teachers that pay $700 in dues per year. Where are you getting your info?

--those getting the axe can now protest on THEIR time--

Local81, (aka Cass and then another name before she got booted), is seriously twisted. Soon you'll have to create a new username AGAIN. I recommend Loco81.

It's difficult to read some of the garbage being spread on here. I encourage anyone who thinks that the Janesville Educational Association has a big bankroll, or gathers 1.4 million in dues each year to seek out the truth. How insanely ridiculous. Those of you spreading this crud when you know you have no idea what the figures really are should be ashamed of yourselves for intentionally sabatoging our school district.

Local81 said, "I suggest property owner join together to form a class action lawsuit against the Janesville School Board for illegally taxing property owners."
-
Haha, that's one of the most hilarious comments I've ever seen.

Bellagio, name ONE local union member that has gotten rich on the teacher's dime.

N24 - Don't listen to Local81's hogwash. She's been told many times how wrong her figures are, but she keeps spewing the same garbage falsehoods. Ask her for some proof of her words. She doesn't have any. I KNOW she doesn't because I know she's so wrong.

How dare they jam through a contract without making a sacrifice and then turn around and ask the residents to chip in $300! You made your bed; lie in it! There would be a lot less lay-offs if you guys would have just paid your fair share.
Don't knock on my door asking for a handout because you're more than likely to get a boot in your butt.

Well, I am going to grab a cold beer and watch the Cubs play Houston. They'll probably lose (again), but that's okay. It's one of the things that makes this a great country. I can cheer for losers if I so choose. Have a good night all and and fight for what you believe in. Whatever that may be. It's your choice.

That's okay poobah. Like I said before I don't have the answer. The tax code is an abomination. All I know is I am tired of being overtaxed and payin for all kinds of crap that isn't a necessity for this country to do well.

Because a flat tax is the most regressive and cruel form of tax policy that exists. We need a truly progressive tax rate similar to what we had in the 1950's - minus the loopholes. Sorry if you thought I was barking, but I get frustrated when people keep moving the target.

Instead of barking on here all day why aren't you out starting a grassroots movement for enacting a flat rate tax? You're retired, plenty of money, time on your hands. You'd be perfect! Let me know where your first rally is and I will personally show up and shake your hand. I will march side by side with you. I will take an unpaid day off of work. How's that sound poobah?

Let's see.... Total wealth - wealth of top 400 - wealth of bottom 60% = wealth of unclesmoothie's missing middle. And you want to cut education spending? Do I need to do the math for you?

According to the current US census website, that leaves another 137,842,954 people out there. What's their story?

Dear Janesville, I am a slob and a union thug who does nothing all day long except think of ways to cheat my fellow tax payers... are you kidding me... the mess that the School district of Janesville is in is not the teachers fault. It is not the Jea's fault. It is Everyone's responsibility. You can say cuts had to be made, but yes it will affect children, yes we lost GREAT teachers. If you read this and respond in your thought "this is not my fault" have you ever attended a school board meeting? volunteered in a school, asked questions about the schools? or do you just sit back and complain or do nothing?. It is time to stop complaing about the teachers, the Union, the School Board, or those lazy union thugs and get busy. No matter what side you are on, do something anything big or small, but no complaining... complaining gets all of us no where. As for the School District of Janesville I will be giving you absolutly all that I can as I have done for the past 20 years of my life. Knowing that there are people out there who do not value the job I do. But guess what, I am not doing what I do everday for the people who are reading this, I do it for the kids. They deserve it. I love my profession, with PASSION! I know my days are numbered until the extreme right trys to cut my program but until then the kids I teach get 100 MILLION% of me and my well educated experience. So tax payers you are getting your moneys worth out of this Union thug/slob. Have a good night Janesville.

Yes I know many of you are upset with how the JEA handled some things; believe it or not some of the members are upset with it as well. There was no quick fix; it couldn't be a said and done thing. I don't blame any teacher for not wanting to open a contract while Sodeman watches and drools over the opportunity to basically strip teachers to the bare minimum. What is more alarming than the ridiculous number of individuals that lost their jobs is the fact that this year Janesville kicked butt in state test scores. What is going to happen next year when there is no learning support teacher to get kids ready for state testing, no teachers to help those students with specially designed IEP's, no counselors to make kids aware of what they are struggling in and how to improve. High school students will have to figure out on their own how to apply for financial aid, grants and scholarships. Kids that are a few credits short will no longer have their counselor to get them back on the right track to graduate. But hey in this community I'm sure we'll see numerous volunteers that will help fill these crucial gaps in our schools. Since everybody seems to have so much time on their hands to complain about how awful teachers are now is the time to PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

I never said it was fair. Not once. Bring on a flat rate tax for EVERYBODY!!! As much as I'd like to see it, it will never happen. The U.S. tax code SUCKS! But if you have an ace accountant you can swim through all the loopholes you like. How many people who make between $25,000 and $35,000 a year have a CPA do their taxes? Not many I am sure. Instead of having huge rallys for one sectors single cause why aren't there rallys for a flat tax rate? Get out and force the issue. The politicians will at least make a half hearted attempt to do something about it. Ya gotta start someplace.

unclesmoothie, here are the statistics to back up the numbers I have given you. I hope you take the time to read this.
-
2009 Total wealth of Americans = $53.15 trillion
2009 Forbes 400 (400 wealthiest Americans) wealth = $1.27 trillion
2009 Bottom 60% (183,317,542 poorest Americans) = $1.22 trillion
-
http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/29/forbes-...
-
http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_589...
-
There are two other fantastic articles that appeared in Vanity Fair and The Atlantic regarding the wealth disparity in America and the dire consequences we face if the increasing wealth disparity trend is not reversed.
-
http://www.vanityfair.com/society/featur...
-
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...

The tax cuts for the wealthy are sure about JOBS, aren't they. I can hardly drive down the street, what with all the moving vans bringing in the new businesses. But they keep the money, don't they?

unclesmoothie said, "Sitting around and complaining that somebody has more than you doesn't help."
-
I am not complaining they have more than me. I have plenty of money. But how does it help to continue to take from the poor and give to the ultra-wealthy? Can you please do one thing for us? Please research the wealth disparity gap in America over the last 30 years and report back to us if it has grown or shrunk. If it has shrunk, then your trickle-down Reaganomics have worked. If it has grown, then obviously the Republican trickle-down that you continue to support isn't working.

OK, unclesmoothie. I'll simplify it for you. As poobah points out, the 400 who so cavalierly disregard own WAY over 1/2 of America's wealth. But it is not just these 400 that you think we should all carry on our backs. You want those of us who earn $25,000-35,000 a year to carry all of the millionaires, too, and all of those in the high 6 figure range, who also get the cuts. You guys just cannot bring yourself to admit that there IS a fair share, and that you need to pay it. We all do. But to ask small- and middle-income earners to pay for EVERYBODY is NOT fair.

I am curious, how much of the corporate tax breaks are actually going to each of the billionaires that keep getting mentioned? I thought that they got breaks from hiring new employees and relocating businesses to Wisconsin.

vatoloco said, "And what do these Americans owe you poobah?"
-
They owe me nothing. I retired at a young age and have all the money I will ever need. But they owe this country much. Fortunately, many of the liberals among them are beginning to understand this - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, George Soros. The 400 wealthiest Americans had once paid 94% in Federal income tax. That was reduced to 70% in the 1960's and then to 28% by your party hero, Reagan.
-
So for starters, let's adjust their tax rates and eliminate their tax breaks. Not for me, but for the sake of this country.

Sitting around and complaining that somebody has more than you doesn't help. It is what it is and will never change. Did you see Obama's pitch today? I voted for the guy and I am appalled at his plan. I am appalled at Ryan's plan. We need a fix. I don't know what it is and I don't have the answer. But if someone doesn't come up with one soon it's gonna get real ugly in The Good Ol' U.S. Of A.

I never said I was against the teachers..... I pointed out that it's nonsense to blame 412 people..... I believe there is plenty of blame to go around. Until ALL of the people responsible for this mees accept responsibility it will NEVER get any better. All of this finger pointing and labeling is ridiculous.. It isn't solving anything. As a matter of fact, it's making thing worse.

Too much Fox/Fixed News for billnewbie, uncle smoothie, and jv93, I think!! By the way, how has Paul Ryan helped his District since he has been our representative beginning in 1998? NOT AT ALL, that's how!! So, more demagogue from the Republicans to do exactly the opposite of what they accused Obama of trying to do...........shifting WEALTH from the poor to the corporations and wealthy who ALREADY have most of it!! Hmmm. Seems like that's fair, hey?

Well jv93, unclesmoothie, and billnewbie, we are losing 125 of those union people in the Janesville Schools!! How dare they be paid a decent wage for their jobs!! How dare they get what was NEGOTIATED in GOOD faith for (salary and benefits)! How dare ANY union member gets paid at all!! They should just WORK FOR FREE!! Just like China. $1 a week for building and making the CRAP that all of you buy!! Yep, those dang unions are the culprit for ALL of the problems in Janesville!!

That may be but how is all of this mess their fault? Dems have controlled the fed and state houses while most of those 412 made their billions.

OK, unclesmoothie, time for my soapbox speech. The wealthiest 400 Americans have more wealth than the bottom 180 millions Americans. That's right, 400 people own more wealth than 60% of Americans.
-
Still seem kind of silly? Wake up!

Yeah, and those union leaders are starving. They need that extra income to buy food. Just look at them. Every last one of them is underfed and malnourished! We must do something about this immediately. How heartless all of you are!

Do you people hear yourselves? Does anyone know how many BILLIONAIRES there are in the United States? The source I checked said 412. (As of March this year.) Seems kinda silly blaming this entire economic mess on 412 people. Some of whom are raging liberals I might add. You have been hypnotized by the media folks.

billnewbie said, "I guess they should just expect to eat more Ramen Noodles or rice for dinner just as our grand parents should develop a taste for dog food..."
-
Geez, your plan sounds just like Walker's plan!

I also occurred to me that some of our neighbors here in Janesville are unemployed and underemployed families struggling to keep a roof over their children's heads as well. I guess they should just expect to eat more Ramen Noodles or rice for dinner just as our grand parents should develop a taste for dog food so that our loyal and hardworking public service union members won't need to make any dangerous, precedent setting sacrifices.

Hum, let's see, holding the line on property taxes here in the city of Janesville benefits billionaires? I didn't realize that Janesville had even one billionaire in it. I also didn't realize that keeping property taxes under control is giving money to those billionaires. I thought it was just an effort to keep our retired grandparents from being driven from their homes by out of control taxing and spending.
You know, come to think of it, I know for a fact that many of my neighbors are retired grandparents living on fixed incomes who can't easily afford a tax increase. But I know of no one in Janesville who is billionaire. I think someone has been taking the rhetoric of our loyal and hardworking unions a little to seriously.

Why does there have to be 2 assistant principles at each of the high schools? Trim it down to one at each school. That will save a nice chunk of change right there.

My heart goes out to the teachers laid off - not all were young ones either.
I find it sad that our culture is so obsessed with youth that no credit is given for experience and maturity.

It seems bigfish thinks he stands for something positive. Not sure what that is, but it's NOT for the future or for the students in Janesville!! Unions have destroyed schools? The budget? Really? Can you be that clueless? And Glenn Beck? You watch him too? Wow!! The fact that you get a vote bigfish is scary!!

So, Rusty, what you are saying is that you believe that our money should be given to billionaires, and then we can recover a tiny portion of what we have given to the billionaires by taking it away from $30,000 a year earners. GREAT solution!

Are people with children leaving Janesville? I guess the only ones left are the complainers who complain about anything and everything. Hopefully they move to and area where people appreciate all people, including the ones who they disagree with.

bigfish1 said, "Or helping the kids?"
-
Why are YOU suddenly concerned about who is going to help the kids? You voted for Walker, didn't you? You knew this was going to be the result of electing him, didn't you?

It STILL amazes me that the Conservative movement does not understand that these changes in policy and vision by the Janesville School Board all the way to the federal government will PERMANENTLY destroy this country!! How does giving tax breaks to corporations that ALREADY do not pay their fair share of taxes work out to the 250,000 jobs Governor Hitler promised? Maybe he meant 250,000 jobs that will be outsourced to other states or other countries? Maybe all of this union busting and ransacking the middle class to pay for his corrupt agenda is going to allow for 250,000 new jobs at $3.35 per hour as it was when I was a kid. Please tell me what Walker or ANY Republican has done just in Wisconsin that has HELPED create jobs? All of the rallies by unions in February? Stripping the so-called non-budget items (collective bargaining) out of the budget law when the Senate Democrats were showing the people what the bill actually said? Or the CORRUPTION in Waukesha County with Prosser's new-found votes? Can't ANYONE see how this is ALL WRONG?? Am I the only one that sees it? Hey all of you Republicans, WAKE UP!! The Republican leaders (Boehner, Christine O'Donnell, the Fitzgerald boys, Walker, Paul Ryan)...........NONE of them give a rip about you other than your vote and being lead to slaughter with all of the Democrats being destroyed by all of this crap!! And what about the school board now? Feldt, a new member, who was encouraged to run by Sodemann. Sodemann and Severson who don't really think ANY services in school are necessary or important. And both knows NOTHING about schools and what ACTUALLY goes on during a "normal" school day!! Ask them if they TRULY understand how these cuts will negatively affect the Janesville Schools. They have NO CLUE!! And those of you that voted them in should be ASHAMED of yourselves!!

witaxman--I DID suggest a solution...you just were not able to understand common sense. My solution is to put the money into our schools instead of into the pockets of billionaires. Do you get it now? Are you now able to better understand? I didn't think so. It's NOT about living within our means...our means are there, or were until people like you and walker decided to give those means to BILLIONAIRES.

I didn't see how many from the ESC office were cut.

MarkR and poobah: Very good posts.

Yes the dumbing down continues. Sad, but true.

When will the people wake up?

Thank the unions for years of raping the taxpayer , this was inevitable . With all these layoffs how exactly are the unions helping the teachers ? Or helping the kids ? How are they good for the community ? How are they good for our country ? My opinion , unions don't belong in the public sector at all ! Have a nice day...

markr - your kids will be immigrants to China where they will have a manufacturing job, after the excessive demands of unions break the job market here.

I agree completely with you markr. You hit the nail on the head.

markr - why is asking the teachers to help pay for their benefits giving money to anyone? and why is OK to be wealthy if you're a libeal (aka George Soros) but not if you're conservative? if you're so critical of what has to be done so the District can live within its means then why don't you suggest a solution as opposed to just criticizing everyone you don't agree with?

I just don't understand how it could be possible to think that we can cut ALL the librarians, counselors and learning-support teachers. I understand the need to cut-back, but to sever all of a certain position doesn't seem possible, or remotely wise.

Does anyone know how to get in touch with the Save Janesville Schools group?

A sad day for kids in Janesville and the rest of Wisconsin as the policies of Walker and greedy conservatives continue to steal from the low and middle income people to give it to the ultra-wealthy with the children suffering the consequences.
-
In another decade or two, society as a whole will suffer the consequences as our schools graduate fewer students capable of competing in a global economy.
-
The dumbing-down of Janesville and Wisconsin continues with Walker at the helm.

why is living within your means so hard for some people to understand? the Distric doesn't have the $$ and cuts have to be made. if the teachers and other unionized employees were truly worried about the students then maybe they would have helped by paying more for their benefits.

Does anyone know specifically which positions from Craig/Parker were cut?

billnewbie--What is too bad is that people like you support giving HUGE amounts of OUR money to your favorite BILLIONAIRES so that you can watch children suffer. The Koch brothers need OUR money far more than OUR schools need it. Why worry about the children? They'll grow up to get the 50 cent an hour jobs that the teabaggers will lower the minimum wage to, and you'll be happy as a bug in a rug.

It is too bad that we have a governor and legislature that is prioritizing corporate tax breaks and funneling money to road construction contractors as opposed to our children and their future.

Well, maybe we'll have nice roads taking people by the empty communities that once thrived with schools and libraries as their anchor.

Like everyone else, the school district has to live within its means. It's really too bad that the unions wouldn't follow through on their pledge to help pay for their benefits. This cut didn't have to be so deep. And a lot of young, energetic teachers are being let go simply because they are young. Age discrimination in reverse. Too bad they don't have a union that represents their interests too.