believe it or not, the lack of discipline is the reason for the low productivity rates in schools. The bullies and the kids who don't care about learning are the ones taking up too much of the teachers' time. The fear of being sent to the Principal's Office or having a call made home to a parent is no longer effective. Don't blame the teachers. Blame the parents who don't want to parent their disruptive children.

Vatoloco: I agree that parents need to be more accountable for their children's education. Unfortunately, I see too many parents who are not involved, and that is wrong on the part of the parents.

On the other hand, I believe that most teachers are doing a good job for their students. I don't know any teacher who became one because of monetary rewards. They became teachers because "they want to teach." Teachers are rewarded when they see that their students are progressing.

I read your post concerned.

For that, I can thank a teacher today. The value of teaching should not be based solely on monetary rewards. Yes...teachers need to get paid a decent wage just like everyone else. I am certain there are great awesome teachers out there who love their jobs and their students.

Do you think that America has gotten a sound return (billions spent for salary and benefit packages) of investment paying to educate our kids? I realize that teachers are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in education. Parents should be more accountable for their kid's education.

Vatoloco: I am not a teacher. And they do not say this just to get attention. I only put this out there because some people have nothing better to do than attack teachers. Personally, I prefer to respect our teachers rather than trash them as you are doing.

With the kind of attitude you have, our nation will become weaker and weaker.

Personally, I think you need to go back to school yourself. You need to learn a thing or two.

"I also know for a fact that many teachers do buy supplies for their students and that they are not reimbursed. Because they don't ask to be."

Funny how these teachers say that they do not ask to be reimbursed but they tell everybody about it to get attention in how noble they are.

Yeah....OK

If you do not want to be a teacher because you feel you do not get paid enough get a different job. Many private employees do that.

Teaching should be about helping kids learn and feeling good about doing it. I know teachers now that have abandoned their high paying corporate stressful jobs to teach because they wanted to feel as though they were making a difference.

Heidi is correct, some teachers need to recognize that the grass on the other side might not be as green as it is now.

The facts come from public documents that are available to anyone who choses to ask for them. You on the other hand have absolutely nothing. I agree that your comments are good for a laugh. You can't justify the excessive benefits so you try to villify me.
****
As I have said before, show me any contradicting information, it is obvious you cannot.

The trouble is heidib93: Where do your "facts" come from? The source? And do we know this to be the truth? No, we don't.

This blog is good for a laugh everyday.

Just because people disagree doesn't mean that I don't speak the truth. You feel the need to call me a bad person because I disagree with your line of thinking. If this is what helps you justify your position, that is fine with me.
****
I don't need to attack you personally because I am putting facts out there. If you can dispute my facts, feel free.
****
So far none of you have done anything but try to discredit me with emotional responses.
****
It seems like I actually do research, post facts and act in a civil manner. You on the other hand resort to personal attacks and the standard line that my facts are wrong without any data to back up your claims.
****
These are almost always the tactics of someone who has a weak argument.

heidib93: If you are on the school board, we need to get rid of you. You shouldn't have anything to do with teachers. I honestly don't think you have a clue. You spout a bunch of gibberish.

How many people on this post have discredited you? You have quite a few people who try to tell you a thing or two, but it seems to do no good. You don't listen to anyone.

Do you always think you are right? You have a rude awakening coming. There are way too many people disagreeing with you, for you to actually be right.

They do get paid for extra curriculars, they are called additives and they get paid in the range of $27 per hour in the district I live in.

As I have said before, I think teaching is a noble profession, just not anything more special than anything else and not the most difficult job in the world. I have never said bad things about them. If you take them as bad things, you are being overly sensitive due to your emotions on the issue.
****
I just believe that they should pay a portion of their excessive benefits. Why is that so hard to imagine for many of you, paying for your own way.
****
Quit trying to discredit my facts unless you can provide any facts yourself. Emotional arguments do not mean a thing to me, the facts are the truth.

@heidib93- I was a teacher and chose my profession later in life so that I could stay home and raise my kids. When I started working I made a little over $20,000 per year plus benefits. My son was a recent college graduate what landed a job at $35,000 per year plus excellent benefits and I didn't complain because I chose my profession.It took me 12 years to catch up to what he started at. I figured it out one time and, allowing for summers off (while I paid for classes to keep my license), I made $10.00 per hour less that he did. Happy for him and didn't complain. Now that the private sector has experienced a downturn, everyone's complaining. Where were you back then?

ms_sassy_wi: Thanks for your great post. You are correct. I just can't figure out why some people "just don't get it."

DAH people, if you think what the clerk did was fishy,Fraud,or whatever! HELLO!!! She would be found out eventually! Kind of a risky thing to do for the clerk to do if it was indeed not a mistake and a planned thing. She couldn't and wouldn't get away with it. Just dumb. THINK people no matter what side you are on it would have been found out!Put the brains back in your head.

Interestingly most people FAIL to understand the majority of money removed from the next budget was "one time" money placed there under stimulus spending from the federal government. Please explain, how not having this one time stimulus money again, in anyway, now is defined as a cut? Do people not understand what a "one time" stimulus means?

I'm not a teacher, either. I am, however, the daughter of a former JSD teacher.

My Mom had to go to work full-time (private employer) to get insurance that would cover vision. I needed glasses. The School District's insurance (at that time) didn't cover vision or dental. If Mom didn't go to work, we wouldn't have been able to afford them (or done without other necessities). I can't imagine the school insurance not offering vision insurance--CLEARLY children being able to see to read wasn't a priority. I'm still shaking my head over that whole issue. Things are different now, I agree, but the Administration (ie: Principal and folks downtown) didn't have my Dad's back when it came to classroom discipline. He was not one to be bullied by a punk who didn't care to learn. The Principal, et al didn't want to deal with the bully. No discipline options for the teacher in the classroom. Yeah, I'd say that the job of a teacher is "not demanding". Heidi, I'd PAY you to try it for 6 months. Then we'll talk.

heidib93: You really don't know a lot of what you are talking about. You just think you do. And, this is not all teachers posting on this board. I am not a teacher. But I realize what you are spewing mostly is crap. Thank the Lord for other people posting here to tell you like it is.

I also know for a fact that many teachers do buy supplies for their students and that they are not reimbursed. Because they don't ask to be.

I don't have a child in school anymore. My child is past that age. But I will tell you if I did, I would want a good school system and good teachers. Under Walker, too much is being taken away and the school system and the students are going to suffer. Walker's way, or no way, is bad for Wisconsin. He is not a governor. He has no idea how to lead. He has divided our state to the point of ruination.

Please do not post anymore bad things about our teachers. There are too many people in Janesville who respect our teachers. And I can plainly see you are not one of them.

I really don't know what planet you are from.

I'll bet 9/10 workers anywhere would leave their jobs if they won the lottery. This of course doen't include CEOs who get that much money per year anyway.

btw: Heidi, you state that teachers get reimbursed for expenses they incur. I can name at least 10 teachers that I know personally who do not even bother turning in expense reports for reimbursement. They buy the things for the classroom activities out of their personal budgets—GET THIS: SO THAT the taxpayers are not burdened by the extra activities-activities that help them to teach the children in more effective ways than "out of a text book". The fact that they do not turn in expense reports does not negate the fact that they purchase things "out of the goodness of their heart". And actually proves the point that teachers DO want to teach the children of this community...AND some of them would continue teaching or volunteering in a school if they were to "win the lottery". That is a most far-fetched example of proving that teachers do not “want” to teach that I've heard in a long time...however, I think the VAST MAJORITY of the teachers want this career and more than that, they want to do their job well (and DO).

Also, I realize that teachers get paid an additional amount for committing to teach during summer school. To my knowledge; however, they DO NOT get paid extra for evening/after school programs, including concerts, etc. That is volunteering. The exceptions I can think of would be sports (coaches) and summer school (teaching).

and let's not forget about those horrible police and fire workers. they will get their benefits shut down just as quickly as the teachers. but do you think the police officer or firefighter will step up and ask if you support gov walker's budget bill when you call 911 for service? Nope. The children in the classroom won't either. but guess what: when you take away the morale, you reduce effectiveness. Why would a cop want to rush to your home if there is a home invasion? because he/she is putting their life on the line every day they work. If we, as a community, are just gonna slap him/her in the face (figuratively) by saying "we're tired of paying for you and your donut-eating friends"...then why don't you just get the rapist/thief/burglar out of your house yourself...I'm sure the teachers/police officer/firefighter job looks "undemanding" from the outside. From the outside, everything looks easy. Heidi, how about you try not bashing every career and look at the value it brings to the community. Sheesh. I CERTAINLY hope you are not on any School District Board-ever again.

Keep arguing Heidib - the more you do, the deeper you dig your own hole.

Nobody is putting up numbers because they don't have any to put up that won't look bad for the teachers in terms of benefits.

Selfishness is an ugly thing and the teachers posting on this board are showing how truly selfish they are. If it was really about the kids, you would be willing to give up something since 80% of a schools budget goes to salaries and benefits. Justify it to yourself however you need to, but at the end of the day you have to live the friends and neighbors that your are taking advantage of.

Sorry if I offended you, but teaching is not that demanding of a job. It is obvious that you have never worked outside of the education world. You would see that there are many jobs that require longer hours, much more responsibility and much more stress. Quit with the "its for the children" crap. I guarantee that 9 out of 10 teachers would quit if they won the lottery. It is a job and it is about money. If you want to villify me because I am calling you out that is fine, but you are the one that needs to look in the mirror and justify your fleecing of the taxpayers.

I have the same respect for a teacher that I have for any other worker. Evidently you feel that you need to be held in higher regard, which would explain your need for benefits that are above and beyond what anyone else receives.
Does it get lonely up there on your pedestal?

10,600 votes found in Dane county with only one race being voted for. Supreme court. Seems odd that in a highly contested race in Madison for mayor and a Dane County executive race going on that these 10,600 votes only wanted to vote for a statewide race. Hum......

Heidib93 wrote: "they are compensated fairly for a job that is not all that demanding and they do get additives when they work at sports events, theater, etc. You may think they are there out of the goodness of their hearts, but it is really about the money."

WOW! Talk about out-of-touch. "not all that demanding"?! Seriously? Have you ever tried to teach a room of 22 kindergarten kids? How about 30 teenagers, about half of which don't want to be in school? Teaching may be one of the toughest jobs in our society. Oh - and let's not forget probably one of the most important as well. We're only trusting teachers with OUR CHILDREN after all. Sorry, Heidi, but you've shown your true colors at last. You have absolutely no respect for teachers and have no business regulating education. Your concern is not for the kids - it is for your pocketbook. Selfish is a ugly thing, as you aptly demonstrate.

Heidi, Nobody is putting #s up - because you wouldn't care to read it.
We've read your selective soapboxing and endless bellyaching about greedy teachers (even though they are wonderful too...head scratch). No point in trying to start from square one debunking your mythologies. ------
Instead of beating the teacher benefits dead horse -perhaps you need another target for your anger about your property taxes. There has to be something other than just teachers wrecking the budget.
-----
The trend for big businesses is to demand all sorts of tax breaks and property tax concessions or they will move to Mississippi, then eventually to Mexico. A stick-up. Just recently Scott Walker signed a TIF deal for a wasteful retail development in Brookfield (no wonder those Waukeshins are so loyal to Scott)
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/1...
----
That is not capitalism, it is corporate welfare.

The numbers are correct, if you have some facts please post them here. They reflect that teachers have kept ahead of inflation, not fallen behind as many have tried to claim.

Teachers are not underpaid, they are compensated fairly for a job that is not all that demanding and they do get additives when they work at sports events, theater, etc. You may think they are there out of the goodness of their hearts, but it is really about the money.

This is not a power grab it is a stand against higher taxes. Our property taxes increase every year to pay for excessive benefits for public workers and we have tried to negotiate. Unfortunately there has never been any give from your side and we are finally putting our foot down and saying no more. You see it at mean spirited, we see it as you being unreasonable.

Teachers have a really good deal, so quit trying to play the victim. It is time to pay for the unreasonable benefits that you have demanded.

Hey PastaMan -Who do you think funded ALEC?
------
And gosh darn that railroad exec getting busted for campaign donations in excess of $40K to Scotty. Jeesh- there a million way$ to skirt around that dumb law using your subsidiary entities and indirect cause organizations. Heck, even a few liberals know the way to work around those laws, (though they don't have near the dough I have).

Hey Koch-Bros, Your secret is out. I know you didn't orchestrate the Union Busting Bill. ALEC did. Stop taking credit for others deeds.
Now for those who would like to know who ALEC is, They write conservative legislation for all 50 state Republican Caucuses. They've been around since 1973. Aw heck... just follow the smell.
http://scholarcitizen.williamcronon.net/...

I see we are still on the budget repair bill and trash-talking the teachers who are already underpaid and overworked.

My question (and I think it's a good one) is WHY are we not looking at the insurance and medical procedure scams that have put the cost of medical care out of the reach of so many of the middle- and lower- income populations??? Don't blame the teachers for the cost of health insurance! Blame the insurance companies and the drug companies for offering premiums to doctors who write out the prescriptions for unnecessary medications, that...in my opinion, are CAUSING the medical conditions in the first place. {Contact your doctor if you begin losing hair, can't digest food, can't go to the bathroom, can't "get it up"..or down, have trouble swallowing, have trouble breathing, can't sit or stand....}

and people want to blame the teachers for wanting to educate the children. But wait: these are the same children who will grow up and will QUESTION whether the medications are good for their situation or if they just might cause a worse situation. This country is just trying to make us into puppets who will do as we are told. I think the problem STARTS with the medical insurance/pharmaceutical sales companies and trickles down into government lobbyists. C'mon. I was offered Cobra insurance after my job was eliminated at a mere $600/month for single coverage. Nah. That's ok. I'd rather just contract some disease and spread it to the pharmaceutical company lobbyists.

Koch-Bros - excellent post

heidi - you are obviously not in the education field because your numbers are way off.

Heidib93 - you actually confirmed my numbers, so don't accuse me of making up a lie. The 48% salary vs 46% inflation confirms that teacher salaries have not "vastly outpaced" inflation. In fact, it barely kept ahead (2% over 16 years...wow...hardly getting ahead). The insurance numbers are pretty typical - everybody's insurance has outpaced inflation over the past 20 years. Hardly unique to teachers or schools.

---

Oh - and the whole "190 days a year" thing. Most nurses work 190 days per year (4 day weeks) and nobody says they only deserve a partial salary. Time audits show teachers work the same number of hours per year as other professionals - many of them "off the clock". You can't really judge just by assigned hours. If teachers only worked those hours, no papers would be graded, no new lessons developed....and so on. Your $65k number is also very misleading. That is the highest salary, not the average. Average is more in the $44k region. Starting is in the $30k region. (that will vary depending on district). You can now stop accusing me of making up falsehoods. I'll accept you apology in the next post.

A "reasonable tax increase"? That's too funny! Wisconsin's tax rates for both income and property are 25% above the national average already. Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned any tax increase, including your idea of a "reasonable" one, should be off the table.......

-----
HeidiB, your colors are showing, this has never been about balancing budgets and really is just union-busting and vindictiveness towards public servants and their profession (education), because more of them were liberals than not (now they all are by the way).
-----
This is a power grab. If it were balancing budget, at least one teeny tiny part of it would include a reasonable tax increase. But no. Try to pretend all you want.
----
No I am not being nice. Neither are you-and you have not been the entire time no matter how much you mask as being reasonable. You are just taking a side and sticking to it.
-------------------------
How long did it take you to figure out I am practicing overt sarcasm here? A while?

In this theater of the absurd ridiculous that we now know as Scott Walker's Wisconsin, our sarcasm-o-meters are all broken-because he has made the atmosphere ridiculous sad. This guy has severely damaged this state on a deep level for a personal agenda.
---------------------------
Maybe someday we can share a reasonable debate, but its just not possible in this land anymore. Thanks to your governor.

What are the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation? I would like to see the results of their studies. I only have the information from our local districts to reference.
*****
I have no issues with teachers pay, I think mid 60's for working only 195 days a year is pretty fair. It is the benefit cost that is the problem. But you don't see a problem and that is where we differ. You think teachers are better than us common folk and I think that we are all equals.
****
Your use of sarcasm is wearing thin, but if that is the only way you can debate that is fine. Maybe that is how George Soros tells you to do it. Conservatives are not like liberals, we don't have to be told how to think.
****
As I said before, I am done debating with you. I will never change your opinion with facts and you will never change mine because you have no facts.

I see somenone took notice of our Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute studies we paid for..
--------------------------
That is what we like -Lets just focus on the teacher's benefits and pension as unreasonable rather than the overall pay they receive. Then say it over and over and over until it is true. Then we can hear all of Waukesha cry in unison "No Fair! Greedy Teachers Greedy Teachers". Then Waukesha grabs their torches and pitchforks and ...well that last part is just a delusion....
------------------
I do like the HeidiB's approach -say what nice wonderful people teachers generally are one second, while using them as scapegoats and villify them the next. Did Scotty teach you that.

Rocky,
I looked at the rate of inflation from January 1995 to January 2011 and it is a cumulative 46%. Costs for teachers health benefits have risen more than 75% in that same period. The overall cost of teachers including salary and benefits is about 48%, actually outpacing inflation by a few percent. Just a couple of numbers for you to consider. You could have done this research yourself, but then again, it would not have supported your position. Instead you made up another falsehood.

Koch,
Sorry, I thought you were referring to Janesville's test scores only. But either way, I am very proud of our students and teachers. You should be too instead of wanting to keep in "on the down low"

I also find Glenn Beck to be a little over the top for me, but I respect his right to speak his mind. But enough about your radical fringe beliefs. I think very few of us subscribe to your way of thinking, you are obviously a little unbalanced.
*****
Rocky,
Yes there is inflation, but the cost of the high end benefits for teachers has far outpaced inflation. Here is a thought: Why can't teachers accept a lower cost health plan that will reduce cost on the taxpayers as well as reduce the amount that they will have to pay once they are required to pay a portion? Is it too much to ask that they sacrifice a little to make it affordable for all of us? This is called shared sacrifice and I have not seen this from the teachers. It is making them look greedy in many people's eyes.

I agree that a school is a community service but that does not mean there should be no cost controls. Why do you think that they should have an unlimited checkbook? I think that fiscal discipline is a better idea. We could apply money in areas that will actually benefit kids rather than to health insurance which only benefits the teachers.
****
I already have the game Clue and I don't think a nickel will be enough to buy another one. You could invest it and down the road it may turn into a quarter.

That's the ticket Mudsill, any newspaper info that is not positive to our Cause just dismiss it as being a liberal rag.
-----
Then turn around and quote something we hear on FoX or Rush just to make them mad. Yep, That is the not-nice approach that makes us Patriots great. It is called competition and winning. And Yep when those teachers and socialists took on public servant jobs, they lost any ability they ever may have had to compete with heartless guys like us.
-------
Anybody remember when our former president GWB proudly professed that he doesn't read newspapers. Thus he just filled himself with BS from our think tanks - those days were grand indeed. When our de-regulatory and no- tax extremism helped fuel the economic meltdown, he was caught totally off-guard.
----------------
Yeah, that was a classic. I sure miss old George, give it a few more years of Obama and we can complete our revisionist history of the recession causes and take George off the hook. We can put him back on the pedestal with the great Tea Party idols like Ronald Reagan, and Joe McCarthy.

Gosh, Heidib93 - I've been seeing an increase in my food prices the last several years and no corresponding increase in my food quality. Could it be that schools face increased costs because (a)things like energy costs hit schools hard and they are ever-increasing, (b) there is something called inflation - it has been low, but present, and would cause school costs to increase and (c) the employees of schools face the same cost of living as everyone else, so their pay should increase with cost of living just to keep even? Here is a nickel to buy a clue: A school is not a business. It is a community service.

And as far as me being a mean person - isn't that what we strive for on our side? Part of the social darwinism. Be nice to yourself first, then your family and friends - then nobody else - that is unless you are nice just because you are trying to convert them to our side.
-------
Our Tea Party Heros thru history - Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin, Walker, Fitzgerald - those guys aren't nice at all to those other people like liberals. So why should we be?
-----

The test scores have been improving for 6 years not one.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/arti...
But that is actually a good move to avoid being informed of the facts, especially when the facts don't support our tea party ideology...I find instead of facts it is better to stick to Glenn Beck's latest, or for fun- the Left Behind series.
---------
And was it really necessary to dismiss the Birther movement? We ought have open minds as you say, especially for viewpoints of fellow Patriots.

Koch_Bros, You should stop trying to debate with Heidi, she makes you look like a fool!

Koch,
I see that you too are trying to use the liberal tactic of discrediting your opposition by labeling them when you don't know what they stand for. Good try, but it won't work.

I am not a member of the Tea party, although I respect their passion and beliefs.

I also don't support privatization of schools or vouchers, although I agree that in certain districts they are a good idea due to poor teacher performance and fiscal mismanagement.

I think it is great to see the improving test scores, but one year does is not a trend. Lets see where they go in the next few years, hopefully our wonderful teachers will continue to do a good job of educating our students.

I also think social security is a great program, except the politicians have been able to steal the money for other purposes. I would rather have control over my retirement money.

It is a shame that you want to eliminate the safety nets we have in this country. I think that we have to protect our most vulnerable to give them a chance to succeed. We do need to do a better job of making these programs a hand up and not a way of life.

I thought that you were being sarcastic before and I still think that. After listening to your rants though, I know that you are a mean, shallow person that I will no longer have a debate with. You should probably seek some anger counseling as it is bad for your health to harbor so much hatred for others.

Don't worry Shrek. Eventually them liberals will have to come back to their computers and see Heidi the Plumber's boilerplate Tea Party manifesto. Beautiful.
------------------------------
That is it, tell them how they pay zero taxes and reap all the benefits. And how public education system is messed up so bad that only GOP politicians have the knowledge to fix it (hint vouchers and more privatizing). Nickolaus can run the education system - I love her math and computer skills.
----------------
Definitely keep the excellent and improving test scores by Janesville and WI public school students and crappy voucher student scores on the down low.
--------------------------------------
That social security conversion to a national 401K -love it. It would cost a trillion to convert to that system (fiscally impossible right now) but don't let that deter you from rambling on and on. Beat that Social Security is evil into their senses -because that means more money for the Wall St. gambling machine -awesome. Or we'll just bankrupt the whole deal with our tax cut schemes where it we remake it to benefit us Tea Party friends next time we have majority in WH Congress Senate. Goood Times!
-----------------------------
And no base safety net. Yes!!! Never mind that parents do die in this country leaving orphaned children, get disabled etc ---we'll build workhouses and more prisons for them.
Jeesh, I knew us Patriots could figure it all out while the liberals are outside playing with their grimy public school children.

I am surprised that none of the liberals on here have commented about the points made on the last post. It appears that Heidi is very well informed on this matter.

When did I ever say I was for ending public education? I am all for a quality educational system that rivals other nations. Unfortunately we have been increasing our spending on education every year and we are not seeing a corresponding improvement in the education of our children. This would tell me that we are not utilizing the money as well as we could be. Maybe we are spending too much of the money on benefits and luxuries rather than on the things that will really benefit our children.

Once again I applaud your use of sarcasm, you are obviously a very funny person to be around. I do believe that Obama was born in America, I also believe that it would be better for individuals if we were able to control where our social security dollars are invested and I believe in real tax reform, not just your blanket statement about tax cuts for the wealthy. It is a shame that you are so closed minded that you cannot see past the talking points you have been fed.

Regarding the lower to middle class liberals that you speak of, I am sure that none of them mind getting the earned income credit, child credits, making work pay credit, homestead credit, etc. All of these things make it so most lower to middle class families do not pay anything in taxes and many times receive a refund thousands of dollars in excess of what they have paid in. Maybe it is a better idea to close the loopholes in the tax code and reduce these credits so that we have a tax code that is easier to understand and is not an engine for wealth redistribution.

Good work Heidi. Glad you are passionate about the cause of ending public education system. Soon we'll have you back on the Birther movement, undermining social security, and of course, more tax cuts for the wealthy.
-------------------------
For some reason those lower to middle class liberals just don't get it, cutting taxes for the wealthy helps them a beautiful amount.

Koch,
I am actually spending the day building something and when I take breaks I check in on the status of this comment board. I feel it is my civic duty to inform the public about the truth.

I sense that you are being sarcastic in your comments as there are very few conservatives that subscribe to your point of view. Almost all of us feel that teachers and all public employees are our equals and deserve to make a good living. We just don't feel that we should be funding excessive benefits for them and we should be demanding fiscal discipline by our government. It is really a different view of how the world should be, we believe a free market with less government interference allows us to market and utilize our skills to be successful. We also feel that nobody is entitled to success without hard work.

I hope that you are enjoying the nice day as well.

HeidiB using part of the beautiful weekend to jab a stick in the eye of public educators with fantastical comparions. That is True Tea Party Patriotism. In no time our Utopian visions for US will be realized.

Rocky made nothing clear. Most of it was opinion and the supposed facts were lies.

Heidib93: Hogwash. I think Rocky made it pretty clear.

Concerned,
I see that you are using the age old liberal tactic of trying to discredit your opponent rather than present any facts. If you don't have anything positive to add to the conversation don't resort to these kinds of tactics, just don't say anything.

I can back up everything I state with hard facts, can you do the same?

Rocky and Concerned,

LIES do not constitute facts, so stop.

Prevailing wage does not guarantee quality. I know many contractors that are much better quality than the union shops. All prevailing wage does is guarantee a higher pay rate for the workers, a higher markup for the owner and higher costs for the district and taxpayer.

I agree that smartboards are great, but NOT necessary. The amount of money available dictates how much can be spent.

Occupancy sensors do cost money, the money will be made up in less than a year in lower utility bills, shorter if the grants from Focus on Energy are utilized.

That teacher receives twice as many sick days per year than the private sector. To utilize them on one long term illness will deplete them but they would probably re-accumulate them before another long term illness. Also the teachers have a sick bank that they can donate those sick days to other teachers. This is a slush fund for retirement in MOST cases.

The data plans required for Blackberries cost at least $10 more per month than a regular phone. Multiply 10 per district @ $10 per month X 12 months = $1200.00 in extra expenses. Enough to pay for a few extra textbooks.

Most teachers family plans are in the $20,000-$24,000 per year range. I have a paper in front of me that shows that. Quit with the lies on this one, or are you embarassed to be fleecing the taxpayer and you wont admit the truth.?

Most districts pay stipends in the range of $8,000-$10,000 at the time of retirement for 3-4 years to cover the costs of health insurance. This was started because so many teachers retire before they turn 65. This is a nice gesture, but not a cost saver. It saves cost when a teacher retires, but it is not due to the stipend paid.

Teachers do receive seniority increases and they are closer to the thousand dollar range. Teachers do NOT have a 20 year probationary period, they receive tenure in a couple of years and then are very hard to terminate even if they are a very low quality teacher. The QEO is not as damaging as teachers claim, with step and lane increases they are able to get to a very good salary within 10 years, about the same as the private sector. Let's not forget that teachers also only work about 195 days per year compared to 250 for the private sector, they receive additive pay for working at school functions, they receive additional pay for working summer school.

It seems as though I know how schools operate and you are desperately trying to justify the spending problems that schools have.

This kind of incompetency wouldn't be tolerated in the private sector. A person would be getting a pink slip in a hurry. And she seriously needs to get one. Or she should resign so that Wisconsin can get a quality election.

Rocky: It is sad that someone on the school board doesn't know anymore than this. And, yes, she has very inaccurate facts. I am so glad you informed everyone on exactly what is what. Most of know better.

SarahB1: Doesn't mean anything to you that the Vice Chair of the county Democratic party said she is satisfied with the integrity of the vote count? Maybe you want to tar and feather the clerk for what happened. EVERY person in county gov't has a bias, one way or the other. Move on.

Heidib93 - For a "school board member" you have some remarkably bad facts. This will be split into a couple posts.

---

Q: Why do we have to pay prevailing wages on all projects? This does not guarantee better results, it just increases costs. A: Because paying below prevailing wages pretty much guarantees that anyone with a lick of sense goes somewhere else. Do you think it is best for the kids in your district to get the "leftovers"? \

---

Q: Why does each classroom need a smart board? I agree that they are an excellent tool, but a chalk board is adequate if the budget does not allow for it. A: Only classrooms in which you want 21st century learning to take place should have 21st century equipment. The blackboard will be more than sufficient for that 19th century education.

----

Q. Why do we leave so many lights on at night in the schools? Occupancy sensors will significantly reduce the energy usage. A. Then buy them. Oh...yeah...they cost money, too.

-----

Q. Why do teachers get sick days in excess of the amount necessary before long term disability starts? These days are usually cashed in at the time of retirement, not used for illness. A. Teacher X gets cancer (God forbid) - uses sick days until LTD kicks in. Now, under your idea, all accumulated sick days are gone. Teacher X recovers to the point of coming back to work (hooray!), but has a relapse a year later - with little or no sick days left, Teacher X has a huge gap between sick days and LTD.

Q. Why do we pay for administrators to have Blackberries? Aren't regular cell phones adequate? A. Blackberries probably cost about the same as "regular cell phones" these days.

---

Q, Why do teachers have health plans that cost in excess of $20,000 per year? This is excessive compared to plans in the private sector which are in the $12,000 per year range. A. This is the one that is telling...teacher health plans do cost in the $14-$16k/year range, under the BRB that means a cost of $12,400 to $14k/year for districts. NOBODY has a health plan at $20k plus per year. Private sector plans are in almost exactly the same range. The only thing over 20K is if you aggregate all fringe costs - including health, dental, WRS, FICA, and so forth.

----

Q. Why do we pay multi thousand dollar stipends to teachers when they retire? It seems this is a reward for working, a nice perk, but not necessary. A. Stop reading the tea party press releases. These "stipends" (or Emeritus positions) are very rare - I'm not aware of any in this area of the state. Even when they do exist, paying this as an incentive to retire usually saves the district money and is initiated by the district, not the teachers.

-----

Q. Why do we increase teachers salaries by a thousand dollars or more just because of seniority? Shouldn't raises be based on performance? A. Again - telling - teachers receiving "thousands of dollars" for seniority hasn't happened since 1993 -when the QEO went into effect. Most seniority increases are a few hundred dollars. The real question is why do teachers have to go through a 20 year or more "probation" until they receive the full professional salary for their job? Most private sector jobs pay people, after probation, the same professional salary - plus some merit increases.

@heidib93...I would love for you to list more.:):)

I am a board member in a local district so I know exactly the wasteful spending. I also know that teachers are re-imbursed for expenses that they incur. I just see the expenditures from a different perspective than you. The things I see as wasteful, you see as necessary.

A couple of examples:

Why do we have to pay prevailing wages on all projects? This does not guarantee better results, it just increases costs.

Why does each classroom need a smart board? I agree that they are an excellent tool, but a chalk board is adequate if the budget does not allow for it.

Why do we leave so many lights on at night in the schools? Occupancy sensors will significantly reduce the energy usage.

Why do teachers get sick days in excess of the amount necessary before long term disability starts? These days are usually cashed in at the time of retirement, not used for illness.

Why do we pay for administrators to have Blackberries? Aren't regular cell phones adequate?

Why do teachers have health plans that cost in excess of $20,000 per year? This is excessive compared to plans in the private sector which are in the $12,000 per year range.

Why do we pay multi thousand dollar stipends to teachers when they retire? It seems this is a reward for working, a nice perk, but not necessary.

Why do we increase teachers salaries by a thousand dollars or more just because of seniority? Shouldn't raises be based on performance?

Would you like me to list more?

It's lovely how some are fine with our children being stupid. The rest of the world is advancing by leaps and bounds, yet here we are scratching our bums and asking when the next football game is on.

Heidi: I know teachers who take money out of their own pockets to buy supplies for their students because there is not enough money to go around. I think you are expecting way too much. And you do not know the inner workings of the school system and what is going on, if you really believe this stuff you are spouting.

Hmmm... now the school districts "have to control it a bit." Yeah, I'd say having to layoff 131 teachers is controlling it a bit. I never had excessive funds in my budget when I was a teacher. I'm guessing you've never worked in a school district, Heidi, if you think there has been gross overspending.

It will affect education only if the teachers decide that they don't want to do their job as well. I believe that you live in "La La Land" for believing otherwise.

Heidi: You are living in la-la land if you think this won't affect education in Wisconsin.

Funny how when someone disagrees with a liberal they are attacked personally. Walker is forcing school districts to be accountable for the money that they spend. They have overspent for years and now have to control it a bit. This will not affect education unless a district has not maintained its fiscal house previously. The districts that have done a good job are not cutting services. You should do your research and quit resorting to childish name calling.

Sorry, I just said I wasn't going to label anyone. I just did. Well, anyway, I do not trust our governor, not one iota.

heidi: You are not living in the real world. I_luv_jvl says it like it is. He knows of what he speaks. You seriously need to do some checking on what our governor stands for, what he has done, and who he associates with. He is a crook.

A great leader? Heidi, are you 12? What "great" leader cuts millions of dollars of funding from schools and state agencies in order to hand the money over in tax breaks to the rich? Our state is no better off, but the rich are richer and the poor are poorer.

I have to say that I think Scott Walker is being a great leader. He is bringing about the change that we have been asking for.

Government Accountability Board - file your complaint at:
http://gab.wi.gov/node/1284

916WI: The same goes for you. But I am not going to label anyone.

Concernedperson......I have absolutely no problem listening to your opinions. I get a kick out of the hypocrisy present in many of your comments:)

916WI: We have to listen to you. And you have to listen to us. Unless of course, you don't want to listen to us, then you don't need to post here.

I will continue to say what I think whether others like it or not. Our governor is a disaster for the state of Wisconsin. He has yet to show any leadership ability. Everyday that goes by he shows again and again how incompetent he is. Every single day my opinion of him gets lower, and lower, and lower, and lower. That is what it is. Don't post if you don't want to hear what others have to say.

concernedperson......Your quote, "Usually the ones doing the namecalling are the "root of the problem."" is classic considering the way you berate our governor at every opportunity.......
As far as labeling Walker a "divider", I think you could EASILY apply that same label to union leadership--wouldn't you agree?

Minan.......That's the stupidest analogy I've heard. So because the Brookfield voters didn't have their votes uploaded correctly they shouldn't count? The chair of the democratic party in that county took part in the canvass confirmed that the current counts are accurate, and you're still ignorant enough to be claiming voter fraud? Classic coming from the libs--whose party claims that voter id isn't necessary because voter fraud doesn't exist:)

916WI: You are calling me a hypocrite? Usually the ones doing the namecalling are the "root of the problem."

916WI: I have repeatedly said that I did not agree with everything that Doyle has done either. And I do not agree with everything Tommy Thompson did either. Now, Tommy got in trouble for tampering with the Wis. Retirement system. He was ordered to get it paid back. Be realistic here. What Tommy did WAS NOT OKAY. And our current governor leaves a lot to be desired. He is not a leader. He is a divider. He doesn't have the foggiest idea of how a governor should conduct himself. He's getting himself in more trouble all the time.

"Do you feel entitled to our police, fire, streets, streetlights, libraries, public schools, etc.. without paying for them?"
Ah yes...the standard liberal response. As predictable as the sun rising. Much of our government spending is not essential services. Wake up! Your understanding of insurance is laughable. Insurance is socialism? Sorry, I'm still laughing. CHOICE is the key. Get a clue.

mmof3 Apr 8, 2011 at 9:35 p.m.
……originally social security was supposed to be a program that was an investment…
..
Incorrect. Social Security has always been a ponzi scheme.
..
The SSA was enacted; August 14, 1935
..
The payments to the states were retroactive to….”beginning with the quarter commencing July 1, 1935,”
..
So, please explain how you make an “investment” a month before you STARTED collecting/appropriating funds?
..
I’ll even provide the link, so you can read it for yourself: http://www.ssa.gov/history/history.html

concernedperson......Your passion to protect the funds that service the union workers from "that scoundrel Walker" is admirable. I would like to know where you were when Doyle and the democrats were raiding every other fund in the state to assure the unions had money to contribute to their funds........hypocrite.

jv93 BS!! Insurance is socialism. Being a willing participant in it does not change its socialistic format. I'm so sorry you are forced to pay taxes here - did you expect everything here for free? Do you feel entitled to our police, fire, streets, streetlights, libraries, public schools, etc.. without paying for them?

Without putting words in his mouth, I'm sure brother Mudsill has a CHOICE of whether or not to purchase his insurance. I like Mudsill however am FORCED to pay my ever increasing tax bill to fund the social agenda of an ever increasingly centralized government. A movement I despise.

Mudsill, Fellow True Patriot that you are. I am sending you some gift cards for Applebees...and a big screen TV for Fox News. Shhhhhh. Quiet down about the Social Security. Even Dwight Eisenhower recognized the folly of getting rid of it.....Yes, you are a great American and your services will be needed soon. Just bide your time a while longer Cousin Eddie, and soon we'll have this theater of the absurd ready for your performance. Bless you Patriot.

Mudsill, do you own any insurance? House, auto, health or even pet or appliance insurance? Because if you do....... you are participating in a social program that takes responsibility away from the average person, and puts in on everyone else when you have an accident or catastrophe. Get rid of all your insurance and take responsibility for yourself - we can't afford you!!

Be patient Fellow Patriot Mudsill. Taking down Public Education...Social Security..Its all on our list.

It is amazing that when a position is questioned immediately people become victims. I did not once call the republicans dumb some of the points I agree with... But if you look honestly much of this agenda does not pass the sniff test.

I gave my self only a few hours to beat my head against the desk, so this is my last thought. Some of us are forced to rely on programs that we wish we did not. SS was opened to disabled workers a long time ago if it was determined they had an illness that would prevent them from collecting. The door was then opened for too many... And many who have contributed nothing. Those of us who are collecting because we will not reach our retirement, but have paid in for dozens of years would trade in a moment.
Same goes for anything else, when we continue to bend rules... There are no rules.
We argue over voting machines while companies we bailed out are giving away our money.... Is that not the real issue? If they paid us all back the money they owe, would we be in debt?
But we argue over what we are led to argue over while the real issues continue

Mudsill thank you for making my point... No I am not "daft" as you put it, and yes originally social security was supposed to be a program that was an investment to secure a retirement for people who did not have pensions. Now unfortunately it is filled with people getting disability money for things they have no business collecting for.
I am surely not speaking of the elderly who have reached the age where they have the right to what was promised... But educate yourselves as to where much of that fund goes. If it is no longer going to be what is was once designed to be, let's be honest and call it what it is. Yes people should not be forced to pay for something they will never be able to use.
I never once called the republicans dumb... I just think there is enough dishonesty for many to share.

mmof3 I know I'm just an ignorant Republican but what does this mean? "If we are going to raid the account for people who pay nothing, and for things we have no business spending it on... Then we should get our investment back."
Who paid nothing? What things are we spending it on and who's spending it? What investment?

mmof3: Thank you. There are so many who have worked so long and hard, it is unthinkable that anyone should have access to WRS except the retirees who have paid into it. There will be war if Walker tries any such a thing.

Sorry richard. Looks like you will stay poor. How many IOUs do you want. There is no money in the system. The money that is being paid in today is being paid right out to SSI recipients. This is exactly how a ponzi scheme works.

Poor Richard... Yep I think you should. That is the republican point. Give the people their money to be responsible for themselves. If we are going to raid the account for people who pay nothing, and for things we have no business spending it on... Then we should get our investment back.

I agree with no absolute enforcement of either because it would destroy both the pension and social security. However, if you are going to make all of us continue to pay... We should have a say. I disagree with the way social security is raided. I most certainly disagree with allowing access to the WRS by anyone but retiring workers.

mmof3-Would it be OK to take our money out of Social Security so we could invest it? I've been paying into it 40 plus years. I'd like to get something out before it goes broke.

Clarity: Thanks for your opinion and I respect it. I am waiting to pass judgment on Doyle and Obama both. Wow, we agree on that. It's just that what I have seen so far of our current governor, I am very displeased. He cooperates with no one. It is his way or no way. I will not accept that in our governor, a person who is suppose to bring people together. He has done nothing to bring our people together in the state of Wisconsin. He keeps doing irrational things every week.

mmof3: Thank you for clarifying. Yes, they should have the option to get out. All I am saying is if our governor gets that greedy, we don't have a choice. I voted for Gov. Thompson twice. And later, I was sorry I did. When I found out that he accessed the Wis. Retirement System to balance the budget, it made me sick. He was found to be wrong, and ordered to get it paid back. All I am saying is if our new governor tried that, he won't get away with it. And I do believe he would stupe that low. Like it or not, I don't trust him one iota. I support our public employees too and I always have.

Going further, because some on this blog, have brought it up. I do think that GM employees got a little bit greedy. And that they could not keep on having everything they wanted. So just to make it plain, I think that had something to do with what happened to GM. They kept on raising the price of vehicles until everyone else who didn't work at GM, finally could not afford to buy them. So, I do agree, some unions got too greedy. But I don't think the teachers are some of those people.

And as, jw wrote earlier, to make it simpler: If the unions are busted, there will be a lot of consequences for workers in the state of Wisconsin, and safety is one of those issues.

"Rep. Barca has already stated he is concerned about the pension fund under this governor. Well, if he tries, he won't get away with it!"

WE have been concerned about taxpayers subsidizing union pay and benefits for many years and unions get away with it.

It only matters when they take union money away.

An error in reporting, not counting. The ballots were properly counted but not properly reported.

Please do not tell me that some of you on here have not forgotten to save a file after you have produced or modified it.

Concerned person... I think you misread my point. I do not think we should be doing any of this. I think we should support our public employees, but if the "bigger picture" is to access that fund... Then people should have the option to get out and manage their own money. It would be horrible that it would ruin something so positive, but better than getting nothing.
I have learned plenty about my governor, obviously more than most. I am only saying that if he is being honest... These public employees should not be "forced" to hand over their money, they should be able to "opt out" just like the public sector.

Clarity: I have learned in my life that there are a lot of people you can't trust. And he is one of them. That's my feelings and my opinion, just like everybody else on this blog says their feelings.

Rep. Barca has already stated he is concerned about the pension fund under this governor. Well, if he tries, he won't get away with it!

Clarity: I AM NOT WRONG! I AM QUITE RIGHT!

No bill has passed. YET! He is a scoundrel and if you think this governor won't do exactly as Tommy Thompson did, you need to think again. He will not get away with it because he will have a lawsuit so fast it isn't funny.

And in my book, Gov. Thompson was much more honest than Gov. Walker is. I DON'T TRUST HIM WHEN I'M LOOKING RIGHT AT HIM.

MMOF3: You need to learn some things about your governor.

MMOF3: LISTEN WILL YOU? AT RETIREMENT, THEY CAN. NOT BEFORE. DUH?

The point is simple... The whole thing is a litany of double standards dividing us all. Nope Kloppenburg should not be announcing victory... Nope Prosser should not be gaining votes from a county that cannot do things properly.
Nope we should not be in this big of a financial mess with all of the wealth in our nation, and nope we should not blame one section of our population for the poor choices made by another.

We also should not force people to support those financially that they choose not to. Is that not Walker's point? If so, stop allowing people who have not paid in to raid our social security, give the people their money back to invest as they choose. The same goes with a pension... If you force someone to pay, they should get a say.

And yes it is not a discussion about pensions, but yes it is as well. You cannot pretend that this does not have bigger implications... One and a half million people felt there was more at stake.

Thanks for being foolish, and yelling something incorrect. Teachers cannot take from that fund either until retirement. Contributors, should not be forced into a pension if they do not choose to. Up until now it was not as much of an issue, as it was a wage incentive, and not a "forced payment".

If there are fears that the money will be taken, the contributors should be given a choice. If this was not about accessing the fund, why would there be no option for workers to "opt out" and not be forced to pay into the fund. If you are forcing someone to pay something, they should have an option on their participation.
Is it fair to take money from all of us to "save" a company, and then tell me that the people who gave to protect your job are the "problem" while you collect a "bonus". Yep for those of you who are getting those $4000 bonuses, you can be angry about what we give our police and fire fighters the day you turn that check over to the governor... not a day sooner.

biggerstaff,
"Sweet! I heard the unions are bringing back the GM production plant to package compost.

Gotta love these losers! LOSING!"

I checked ccap for biggerstaff in janesville. You might want to look in the mirror for a definition of loser. I thought I just saw in the paper that one of your relatives was busted for stealing from employees pensions?

mmof3, My retirement is in WRS. Why would I take it out? I'm not understanding where this rhetoric is coming from. Nor do I see anything that says Gov. Walker is going to be transferring funds out of WRS. Please give your sources.

So this is a pension blog? What?

mmof3: BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE IT OUT. THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN TAKE IT OUT ARE TEACHERS. EVERYONE ELSE IS PROHIBITED FROM TAKING IT OUT.

smallBIZ - how ironic is it that someone running to be a judge would exhibit such poor judgement?

Interview with Nicholas' state-level co-worker:
http://solidaritywisconsin.com/audio/int...

http://gab.wi.gov/feedback/complaints

clarity: Yes, I'm going to tell you too. He is raiding from the pension fund. And he has absolutely no right to do that. Tommy Thompson did that too. Tommy got himself in trouble and had to see that it got paid back. Walker is opening up a whole different can of worms with this one. And he will be sorry he did this because people are not going to put up with it, plain and simple.

He is a disaster as a governor and for the state of Wisconsin. He is devastating our state and the people in it for his own gratification. It is not for the betterment of the people of this state. I wish you would wake up.

But I'm SURE I heard a victory speech by JoAnne Kloppenburg - what was that all about?

Clarity... Make sure you research a bit more, no disrespect intended at all, but the retirement age for officers is set to dramatically increase. I do not want a 60 year old saving me, I want him greeting me at WalMart.
Education does play a factor, who is going to invest to be an asset to their community in the capacity of police and fire if they cannot afford to pay back student loans when they are finished. We do not expect that of any other private profession. If we are going to compare, do it fairly. Compare all aspects not just the ones that support what you want.

that means education has to come into play, so does experience, and the physical toll of the job. Are you truly going to tell me that the bank executives that ruined our country's finances deserve a better future than the officer that was just shot in Fond Du Lac? We are foolish to let this keep our eye off the real issues.

Janesvillefirst do you have a WRS pension?
If this is so "good" for everyone, take out your personal contribution... Minus of course what you have already received. We will let you have the rest to invest. No more monthly payments.
After all you are receiving that stipend off of the investment of the bulk of the rest of the contributor's money. I do not think they want to be in the fund anymore supporting those who do not support them.
It is only fair to let them have their money to do with as they please.... So sorry if that changes your retirement. Fair is fair right? You can go back to work like those men and women whose retirement ages are being changed.
One you reach the golden ring... Do not advocate for all the rules to go away, you may be the one left with nothing.

Get out the life preserver-somebody has gone off the deep end.

youkillme, "How was Kloppenburg supposed to know somebody was holding back a key piece of evidence?"

-
Sadly, this is an example of her inexperience. While I can't prove it, as I wasn't there, I would bet money that Ms. Kloppenberg's handlers pushed her to declare victory when she had that slim 204 vote lead with the *hope* that Justice Prosser would concede. They should have known better than to put her in that position.

Clarity... That is exactly the foolish position that makes people think that the WRS fund is public. Yes those workers pay... They have paid with no raises for years, they have paid with lower wages than others in the private sector with a similar education. An officer is required to have at least a bachelors degree for most positions... More education than our governor. Comparable wages? The benefits ARE earned wage incentives, not gifts.
If you are taking that from these people, then you owe them the equivalent that a private sector employee makes with similar education and experience. That will never happen because it would bankrupt every city, county, and municipality. What does that tell you?

Clarity, I saw that post by Jetski and it pretty much admits everything we knew about Kloppenburg and the liberals. They knew all along she was unqualified and second rate yet were willing to throw good judgment under the bus for a cause. Its the union way!

@mmof3: I am retired from a public safety career of 35 years. I'm not aware of anytime during that period where any public safety union ever encouraged people to boycott any busineses. You will note that none of my post diminished the job that they (we) do. It's pityful however that the unions have gotten into this low life behavior. That's my only point.

Liquid cool... Then have the guts to open your bank account. This is not about whining as you so "childishly" put it. It is about stealing, lying, and cheating. Most of these people have given all that has been asked, they just want their investments left alone.
THEIR money in THEIR accounts... Do you really mean to say that you feel it is proper that those people have their private retirement company opened to the state? It was made private for a reason, so the money was safe. Are you truly saying it is fair to steal a private investment and not to allow those whose money is there to have a say if they choose to remove their contribution?

You are advocating that no one has a choice? Would that not be a double standard from your whining comments? Many are not whining about who is in charge... But they do not have to be forced to trust him with their private money either... Given his track record I do not blame them!

mmof3-I know Mouse won't believe this but my wife has worked for the state for 26 years-she's a former union stewart (so is my step son) I read the union propaganda that comes in this house every month and no where are they claiming Walker is gonna raid that fund. Post some sources please.

Still people whining from the unions & the left? It was an error that was reported to the UNOFFICIAL MEDIA RESULTS.. Get it? Votes were not magically found, they were always there and they were verified. Get over it, your like my 4 year old when he does not get what he wants!

It's in the budget repair bill 28,000,000 till the end of this fiscal year.
The 2011/2013 budget = 150,000,000 per-year.
He takes from the WRS fund set up to pay the employee portion of their health coverage. Now employee's pay a portion of that (12%) the money that is no longer needed from that fund (12%) is to be transferred to the general fund.

Clarity- I think he meant to say that was the only fund left that Dolt didn't "fix".

Poorrichard... Yes most do love what they do, but everyone needs to secure a future for their family. What everyone is so blind to is that the Police and Fire professionals share the same retirement system that is being " opened" as a public bank account. Many chose what they do and to sacrifice as they do in order to secure a future. Not one that would make them rich, but comfortable when their bodies no longer can maintain the riggors of the job.

Now the people who provided us all with safety are being attacked. They placed THEIR money in a pension fund that was SECURE. It is not public money, that was part of their wages. It is the same as telling you tomorrow that your personal bank account is now property of the state. Sucks that you thought you were smart and saved wisely. Jimmy over there spent like a drunk sailor, we could not take from him... Sorry.

Like I said if this was about "fiscal responsibility" reward those who were. Give them their money, and allow them to invest wisely as they have. Stop the pension all together. Allow the public workers what they have earned, and let them decide what to do with it.

http://scottwalkerwatch.com/?p=2180

Just for the record... I am not republican or democrat. What is right is right, and what is wrong is saying one thing and doing another. Bending the rules as you please. Mr. Walker is the governor and deserves the respect of the position, WHEN he respects ALL of the people he serves. By the way... Last time I checked, 5 percent is not an "overwhelming majority" it actually is closer to an accepted accounting error. So maybe... Just maybe one group should not act like they are king.
When the tables get turned no one likes how that tastes. I also would not put all of my eggs in the basket of a man that was kicked out of college for cheating, and who mismanaged the largest city in Wisconsin so poorly that the state took over most of their public services... Just sayn'

mmof3- Nobody begrudges the Police and Firemen their money - they definitely earn it but if you ever watch Cops one of the first thing you'll see is they do it because they love that line of work.
They're not doing it for the money. Most of them are smart enough they could make more
money in different jobs if you wanted too, but they don't.

Pastafarian you could not be more correct... That is the bottom line. The only place there is money is in the WRS pension fund. Walker needed to get rid of collective bargaining to raid what is not his.
I know everyone... You who voted for him, open up your bank accounts for him to take as he pleases. If you are not willing to do that, than you have no idea what those people are facing.
If this was not the issue, then dissolve the WRS... Give each contributing member their investment back, and let them choose what to do with it. No more pension fund. After all there will be none left when Walker is done with it.
If this is truly as it is presented, then let the workers take what they earned, and let them make their own decisions on where to invest it. Obviously they have done well so far, since the WRS is the best managed retirement system around. Not because it is so overly funded, but because it was intelligently managed.

That option will never be given... Because Walker is lazy, and instead of real solutions, he looked and found an easy way out. He is going to rob from the men and women that served our cities, counties, and villages without providing them with a choice. What about that is democratic in any way.

Speak up republicans... Why would the WRS participants not be given that as an option if this truly was not about using their personal, and private funds as a public bank account? All of you that love Walker loan him your 401 K! See what return you get. If this is not about crooked veiled agendas... Give them the option to have their money back, and opt out of the pension system all together.

i_luv_jvl - WHAT?

Give it a chance first? Let's say I own a business, and I have one $1,000 bill for one rich person, and one hundred $10 bills for some average people. The rich guy is my best friend, so I decide to charge each of the one hundred average people double to pay the rich guys share, the bills get paid. The bill still got paid, but was it fair or right? Do you think the "little" people might be a little upset?

I find this extremely telling, Kloppenburg runs out in the front of the cameras declaring victory on a razor thin unofficial 200 vote lead. The VERY first important decision she makes = WRONG!

Gosh, Janesville First. I guess all those people who gave their winning speeches Tuesday night should have been waiting a week first, huh?

"pro-walker - do you think giving more and more money (tax breaks) to the rich and then taking away from the middle and low class is solving the problem?'

How are we going to ever know if Walker's budget repair bill will work if the liberals keep road blocking an attempt at fiscal responsibility?

Give it a chance for goodness sake. I am sure people will start liking these ideas once we start seeing the effects of controlled spending.

Janesvillefirst:
Police and Fire professionals do what others do not, they leave their home ready every day not to return. That deserves more than you provide them. In the past twenty years, law enforcement has changed so much that we as a population feel it is appropriate to "monitor" EVERYTHING that officers do. The only place they are not recorded is the bathroom. They are constantly watched and scrutinized, and for that we as a society feel the right to second guess their every move.
Has anyone ever stopped to think how fearful some of the interactions that they have every day could be? Human beings behave differently under stress, but officers are expected to be perfect at all times. What person in their right mind would go to school for law enforcement now?
Go back in history when there were real thugs, crooked politicians and bought police officers. History seems destined to repeat some things... But instead of an organized underworld, we will have uneducated gangs and drug addicts doing as they please.
Funny how you can say how hard people who do not have a union work... News flash, public unions such as the WPPA are not the "great evil" you speak of. They work mandated hours, have taken voluntary pay freezes, and have given back incentives such as clothing allowances( for uniforms damaged in the line of duty) to help this issue. For all of that, people like you feel you understand enough to pass judgement. Make sure you never call for help, as public employees "do not work" like the rest of you.
Maybe, just maybe the issue is things such as the state paying private companies double when they work on state jobs... Example: private company pays an employee $25 per hour to work a dump truck on a normal day... But whala when working on a state highway same worker doing the same job makes $50 an hour! Ask a police officer or firefighter when they got a "bonus" for doing a good job.
I will answer that NEVER! Not only no Christmas bonus, but by the way... You work Christmas, and every other holiday. Not complaining because of the other benefits that were EARNED!!!! No one gives those men and women anything, what they do deserves to be compensated.
Hmmmmm wonder where the money went
I am sick of this entire thing being surrounded by people's opinions of teachers. There are other people, good, honest, and hard working people that are bearing the brunt of poor choices made long ago. Not fair! Just because the private sector made poor choices... Fanny Mae, Bernie Mac, ...etc. Does not mean that the little that some public sector employees have been given should be on the market. Really research more than just the teachers. Then remember the caliber of people you will get protecting and serving you... Sleep tight

How was Kloppenburg supposed to know somebody was holding back a key piece of evidence?

I know many of you lefties are breathing a sigh of relief that Kloppenburg didn't win. Who would want someone who would make a decision on a case without all of the evidence being in? That's exactly what she did when she delcared herself the winner (and whinner) on Wednesday. Everyone knows there is no winner until the results are certified by the GAB next friday.

pro-walker - do you think giving more and more money (tax breaks) to the rich and then taking away from the middle and low class is solving the problem?

Walker needs Prosser on the court to OK the 150,000,000$ dollar a year raid of the WRS pension fund.
The money in the pension fund belongs to the pensioners not the state. The state has no legal claim to that money. The state will have to pay it back after they lose in court.

Leftist - It is still a referendum on Walker. We took a no name, under qualified nobody from a losing one sided campaign 6 weeks ago to a near win and MAJOR upset of an incumbent who is way more qualified. It is actually quite successful how motivated we became in a short 6 weeks. Just because this wasn't a voter win for us doesn't mean we lost. This is a huge victory, you gotta remember alot of police officers voted for Prosser cuz he is tougher on criminals but they don't support the likes of Walker. It was hard to vote for Klopp just because you don't like Walker even though you knew deep down Prosser would be the better justice. It just shows how screwed up our state has become thanks to Mr. Walker.

Prowalker: I did not agree with everything Doyle did,just to let you know. And I didn't agree with Tommy Thompson either when he raided the Wisconsin Retirement Fund.

Funny how it went from being a referendum on Walker to, well, something else in the course of 24 hours.

confusedperson - when will we see an intellectual response come from you? Shall we keep going with the status quo of the past decade? The shuffling of money from fund to fund to fill the voids from the creative accounting practices that occurred under Doyle? No thanks. Our business climate has suffered enough because of Doyles ineptness. Last I checked, the private sector is where the job creation has to come from, not from the tax consuming governement. Walker was voted in by the majority and from the looks of things, Judge Prosser is on his way to a win. That's just affirmation that the majority of people in Wisconsin are supporting what the Governor is attmpting to accomplish. Is everything going to go perfectly, probably not, but I sure as heck have more confidence in the plan Gov. Walkers has laid out, compared to the same old, same old you seemed to think works.

jw: Too bad people don't wake up and see it like it is. You have it absolutely correct. They will wake up when something really bad happens, because it's going to happen underneath Walker.

Walker, where are the jobs you promised? Or are you still sending them away? Companies don't want to come to Wisconsin because of the legislative climate here. And we have Gov. Walker to thank for all of it.

We won Patriots and followers of the Spirit of our Founding Fathers! We shall control it all!
------------------
Let Prosperity rain down up me me me and my business friends and our children's inheritances, and trickle-down to the rest of ye Tea Partiers. American Flag lapel pins and tri-cornered hats for all the Tea Party -whoot!
-------------------------------
But as for you teachers and your grimy public school children. You get nothin-because this is a winner-takes-all battle in America. That's what you get for choosing a public service career where you don't learn how to compete and do the dirty work to WIN elections. Because life is about winning. Size matters, and you and your schools and union folk are small and me and my tax cuts are BIG.
-------------------------
I can agree with the commie Yakov and Yuri Rashkin on one thing - Vhat a country!

For all you libs, the Dane Co. vote canvas has been completed and even there, they could only come up with 69 more votes for their favorite. An by the way, it was the vote canvas in Waukesha that discovered, not found votes, but votes that weren't imported into the spread sheet properly. All is well there as verified by the Vice-Chair of the Democrat Party. So, jump up and down, scream, pound on drums, call for investigations by the FBI, CIA, NBC, CBS and any other sets of initials you can think of, but the numbers are what they are.

tedmilewis: I agree with you totally and I couldn't have said it better myself.

Fraud.

ted, I agree that this should be her last election. She appears to be intractable, from everything I've read so far. At the very least, her inability/unwillingness to change over to the state system has caused an uproar. That's more than unfortunate, given the political climate in Wisconsin right now.

Packolies: You have a point there.

Poobah: Thanks again for post. You have a lot of wisdom which some on here don't have.

Regadless on one's party affiliation,we should agree that the circumstances warrant a thorough and fair investigation. We all want an accurate counting of the votes. Kathy Nickolaus, Waukesha Clerk, had been previously indicted (and given immunity) in a prior partisan scandal, and has a remarkably shady electoral past. We need to have confidence in the results, regardless of one's party affiliation.

Yes Janesville! They certainly awoke the sleeping giant!

Any finally, I would like to thank AFSCME and Jimmy "the union thug" Parrett over in Union Grove, the smelly, hippie drum pounders at the capitol, the goofy farmers that drove around the capitol on their tractors, WEAC and the Teamsters, The Cop and Firefighter unions and the wild eyed protestors with megaphones at the Forward Janesville event for the Governor. You have inspired us all on the conservative side to get off our behinds and vote.
Thanks Again!

@dtb: May I ask what your research findings lead you to vote for Kloppenburg? Or was it just a vote against Justice Prosser?

As I said in a blog on Wednesday after Kloppenburg smugly announced her victory, it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
So Kevin Kennedy (GAB), get your pitch pipe ready for a high C next Friday. I think we could have a trio, JoAnne, Mary Ann and Shirley (might her middle name be Ann?) are going to be ready to sing!!!

WisconsinLover, that didn't just happen in Madison; I only voted for the Supreme Court race. I didn't have a chance to research my local school board candidates, so I didn't vote for any of them and the only other 'race' in my county was an uncontested circuit court judge I didn't bother with. Maybe a lot of people in Madison did this also, as this was probably the only reason many of them went to the polls at all.

Are you sure the votes were Madison or were they Dane County? And since the Madison Mayor candidates were both dems, maybe some repubs didn't bother with it.

((And there, gentle readers, is the difference between the liberal and the conservative. The liberals (a) did not gloat and name-call when Kloppenburg was winning and)))
.
HAHAHAHA...wait, you are serious? Maybe you need to hit refresh more often when reading other postings on this site.
.
((((b) are (mainly) reasonable about the error. Unlike the conservatives who seem to be falling over themselves to gloat and were screaming "fraud" when they were losing. Look at the behavior. Do you want to be on either "side" or are you ready to join the middle yet?))))
.
Middle of what? your portrayal is of conservatives being clumsy and raving while libs are all goodnes and light. I have not seen too many conservatives "screaming fraud" as most seemed to grasp the fact that nothing is yet official.

Here it is again for the crazy conspiracy people.The facts and data aren't going to matter to these folks even though they won't be able to challenge (a) the validity of the Brookfield votes, (b) the verified Waukesha Count, (c) come up with any remotely plausible motive for Kathy Nickolaus's FUBAR. Bottomline: the delay in reporting these votes did NOT do David Prosser any favors. So what exactly is the conpiracy theory?
Please answer this question if you can.

Sweet! I heard the unions are bringing back the GM production plant to package compost.

Gotta love these losers! LOSING!

AMEN snkybstrd10!!!

Just saw a new post on Ebay for a black robe. Never worn.

Can you tell me what democracy looks like. THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE. oops.. Don't you just hate it when you get your own chant handed back at ya!

Doesn't matter your political affiliation this should make everyone mad as hell that this even happened. I'm not convinced that this was an accident. Very fishy. I'm tired of party propaganda inciting neighbor against neighbor. We should all unite together and take back our state and our country for that matter from the corporations. This is getting rediculous.

something doesn't seem right here. If he won the election I'm ok with that but why did it take this woman who used to work for prosser some 29 hours to come forward with the information? If she knowingly broke the trust of the people to fairly and timely count the ballots she should get a nice long stay in state prison.

I agree that the Waukesha County Clerk should be removed from office because she's incompetent. But I don't understand why the article had to mention she had worked for the GOP in the past. What does that have to do with her incompetence? Would it have been mentioned if she had previously worked for the Democrats? I doubt it. Doesn't the Gazette have any local reporters that could write about this? Why does the Janesville Gazette always have to include AP articles from writers in Madison and Milwaukee? Get some local writers on this, for Pete's sake.

Let's not forgot the appearance of vote tampering on the side of the Democrats in this race too. One of my favorites is the 10,000 ballots in Madison that just had votes for the Prosser/Kloppenberg race. That's incredibly suspicious, especially since it didn't happen anywhere else in the state and Madison also had such a hotly contended mayoral race.
It's starting to appear that more people are supporting Gov. Walker and balancing our budget than the unions would like us to believe.

Hey Koch_Bros.... it is what it is. There you go assuming that I am either for or against something without even taking the time to ask. All I pointed out was that the name calling is childish and foolish. I see it from both sides here, yet you take my statement as an attack on your personal beliefs. Are you a bit paranoid?

We need a fair investigation into this election. A partisan individual, who had been indighted for misconduct previously but was given immunity, who rejected an auditors recommendations for proper information storage, and who has an excuse that does not pass the sniff test, suddenly finds thousands of votes for the candidate of her party. This may be remarkable incompetence, and not actual fraud. But we all should agree that we need a fair investigation.

The first thing I did SarahB1mouse was Thank the voters that you threw all the crap you had at as and you got an unofficial tie. Look it up

koch_bros: I love your posts! ;)

Big shocker.. what do they expect when they do it all manualy and by hand??? Online voting for the win!!!! Then we wouldnt have this problem.

SarahB1, Ms. Kloppenburg was only "determined to be the victor" by self-proclamation. There has yet to be an *official* declaration of a winner. Until there is, no one has any business assuming this election is over.

That we will vatoloco, that we will. Stay tuned.

i dig yo posts koch_bros:)

The next liberal Medusa head to rear its ugly presence will be recall elections for Republican senators. To their credit, they never give up, so my conservative friends, we must stand firm in our resolve to keep fighting this monster.

Really, come on, do you really think that he had that many votes from Milwaukee which he bankrupted.

Game over for Kloppenberg.

The people of wisonsin have spoken. There voices have been heard and we can interpret the people reject Kloppenburg and support Prosser.

jw, You're absolutely correct. My granddad was in the coalmines of Kentucky. I know exactly what you're talking about. But what *equivalent* dangers in the workplace are the state workers facing? They aren't teaching our children from a coalmine or in a steel mill. They aren't being forced to teach in a locked classroom. They aren't providing healthcare in a steel mill without safety equipment. Nor are they paid in scrip. And no one is trying to shutdown the United Mine Workers where they still face incredible danger everyday. You truly are comparing apples to oranges which is so ludicrous that it weakens your entire argument.

yes fellow Waukeshin Patriots and True Americans. call them liberals crybabies. We are winning this game. What can I have Walker and Fitzgerald do to them next? I sure like winning.

jw-your level of paranoia is truly amazing-suggest some serious psychotherapy is in order

"Hellllpppppp! I'm Meltingggggggggggggggggggggg!"

If you think about it, it's remarkable: in April elections, it's usually the unions, especially the teachers union, that turns out in force, and conservatives don't have a chance. The fervor was as trong as it will ever be right now and they couldn't take down Prosser in an April election.

Now the rest of us who are not on the government dole (i.e. those of us having to make the money to pay for those in Dane and Milwaukee counties) are having our say. How sweet it is!

There was a time during your grandparents' lifetime that life was much harder. What we take for granted now was not so back then. A work day was long. Fourteen hours was quite common then and there were no breaks. If you had to use the restroom your pay was docked a nickel (an hours' wages). Weeks were six work days with Sunday off.
When you punched in in the morning the doors were locked behind you to prevent you from leaving. Nice idea unless there was a fire which happened. Don't consider calling in sick because that would result in your termination. Many industries were mill towns where the mill rented out homes to their workers. Pay was given out as script that could only be used at the company store and no where else. Food could cost up to 50% of a weeks pay. With little extra left over it's no wonder people paid the doctor with chickens. Outhouses were common even in big cities. Garbage was thrown in the street that was until sanitation laws were enacted.
There was no minimum wage or child labor laws. No safety rules either. Workers never used a safety harness and hard hats didn't come into use until they built the Bolder Dam. Even then it was the workers who made the first versions by gluing and doping two baseball hats together. It made for a hard double billed hat with hard shell to protect against falling rocks.

And we wonder why the life expectancy back then was 48 years. All of the advances and benefits we enjoy today as workers union or not was due to the fights of the unions. Take away that bargaining power and we'll return to that not so good yesteryear that I'm sure grandpa would like to forget.

Here we go again, another Republican scam, cheating just like the Bush Florida deal. When are you all gooing to realize that the Republican are all a bunch of crooks and liars. If it looks like BS, smells like BS, it is BS

to bond
I hope the flood takes all the crooked politicians down the river without a paddle.

Bulletin; Bulletin; The National Weather Service has issued a Flood Warning for all of Northern Illinois!With the never before seen magnitude of crying coming from the Lib/Dems&Unions. And with the votes now showing Prosser with a big lead in the judges race in Wisconsin. The weather service says the flooding has the potential to last a minimum of 4 years or more..

The govt unions are slowly losing their grip on the taxpayer wallet. No amount of pail banging or appearances by the Jesse Jacksons or Michael Moores of the world can intimidate us, the average Wisconsin citizens, into swallowing their liberal kool-aid.

It all comes down to whoever can cheat the best, it is all just crooked politics. We all know we voted for the judge who was thought to favor each one of our views on the budget. Neither one of these judges are impartial, neither one will be fair. I can't ever vote again for someone who is supposed to be impartial, because I don't trust any candidate any more. I can't believe that any candidate will be honest and follow the law, and not their personal opinion. Our government system now allows buy outs of elections, cheating, crooked underhanded passing of laws, and I doubt that Walker won the election by a majority that were actual voters, I am sure he won the election by buying the votes. Wisconsin politicians are smelling about the same as Wisconsin cow manure.

Elections are (always) sloppy, plain and simple.

Thanks uncle smoothie for the "people bitter when their side loses" statement. You got it right - this is a game and it is all about winning. Silly that they take it personally when we single out teachers and education as the problem. Come on teachers - it is all just a game. Lighten up.

Incompetence? Yes. Fraud? Probably not.

---

And there, gentle readers, is the difference between the liberal and the conservative. The liberals (a) did not gloat and name-call when Kloppenburg was winning and (b) are (mainly) reasonable about the error. Unlike the conservatives who seem to be falling over themselves to gloat and were screaming "fraud" when they were losing. Look at the behavior. Do you want to be on either "side" or are you ready to join the middle yet?

Thank you, Poobah. I appreciate your insights and the balanced voice you have brought to this discussion, for the most part. We, as adults, should be able to have an adult conversation without the vitriol. This election is not officially over. As much as I hope the current numbers stand, I know others hope they will swing the other way. We are a state divided. I hope we can find a way to live together without being so prurient in our remarks to each other.

Fellow Tea Party Patriots, when we castrate public education, not only do we whoop the union teachers - but we whip the future generations. Those kids will be minimum wage drones who's only outlet is tech gadgetry. Eventually they will have no choice but to be begging at our table.

I have been called a variety of derisive names on these posts. Some people are just bitter if their side loses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsTRxXvQY...

jv93
Apr 8, 2011 at 10:54 a.m.
Suggest removal I love watching lefties melt down.
-------------
I love the persecution, name calling and divisiveness. Great job! Beautiful.

O, I'm sure he's already at work on his behind closed door efforts to make sure he wins a recall election. Nothing as blatant or open as suspeding the constitution, he's already doing that piece by piece.

Democracy for real. No paid minions trashing our capital and rules for radical playbook tactics. Plain ol' democracy and it's fun to watch the cheats and reported fraud and you still lose. I say bring it. Bring in the biggest lawyers you've got and lets go through the ballots. I think that's the last thing the left wants.
http://media2.620wtmj.com/breakingnews/E...

Most frequent commenters know that I am unabashedly liberal/populist and support the unions and Kloppenburg and have left no question about that in my posts. But seriously, I think it's time to tone down the rhetoric, the hate-filled gloating and let the election officials do their job. This clerk in Waukehsa County should have been forced to sign a stipulation with prosecutors when she was granted immunity that she could never hold public office again. She made a horrible choice in not using the statewide election computer system. But the votes will be thoroughly combed over by lawyers and teams of officials from both sides of the political specturm, rest assured.
-
Let the process work with the confidence that Wisconsin will be flooded with teams of attorneys and investigators and we'll probably end up with one of the most accurate counts in recent electoral history. And that's in a state with a long, rich history of electoral fairness.

I love watching lefties melt down.

Beautiful. Keep up the good work Tea Party. Big plans for you all, remaking the state of Waukeshin in our vision.

Absolute power!!!!

"I love it when I can pass criminality off as capitalism."
*
One word: fascism. As practiced in Fitzwalkerstan. It's here, folks, and I have a feeling it's going to get worse before it gets better.
*
Total recall. Recall them all!

If Walker reacts to Prosser's loss by reaching in and stealing the election, how will he react to getting recalled? Suspend the state constitution and proclaim a police state?

My goodness! Funny how the opinions can change so radically in 24 hours......

Waukesha-our investment paying off in spades! I love it when I can pass criminality off as capitalism.

This is a blatant grab to steal the election. These folks are toxic and must be stopped.
*
On the other hand, it could be viewed as just the latest daily furor from Fitzwalkerstan. So what else is new? This: Prosecutors in Wisconsin have been told they will be reduced to part-time workers if they don't agree to take six more furlough days before June 30.

Sheboygan County District Attorney Joe DeCecco said the job reduction proposal amounts to intimidation.
*
Gov. Fitzwalker promised to bring jobs to Wisconsin. No luck there. So now he is directing his efforts at constructing the sad state of Fitzwalkerstan.

nomoreres, I agree with you 100% too bad the general public doesn't see it that way!

I know it was human error concernd.. you really need to stop your "gotcha" moments

donnaw......please tell me you're joking. If Kloppy seriously does start appearing with people such as Jackson, she will have lost any small amount of credibility she once had....Seriously........

JohnWicket- For an answer to your question of small number of votes in some wards, look at the map at http://www.co.janesville.wi.us/Library/n... and look at the size and location of the wards. These are sparsely populated areas, some only a couple blocks in size. 28, 29, 31, and 32 are on south side and 30 is in north west side.
Even 26 and 27 are small scattered pockets. I think that as the city grows, those wards were expected to expand also.
With the new census completed and a redistricting possible, maybe the wards will be evened out a little and made contiguous?... There was an article a couple months ago on the redistricting. http://gazettextra.com/news/2011/feb/22/...
Hope this answers some questions.

Kaysbrew: You condone the county clerk's behavior. Stop doing that. Her past history shows how incompetent she is.

Lets not forget Prosser already took the lead from Winnebago Co. and New Berlin canvass before this.

And Kloppenburg is scheduled to speak at a press conference with Jesse Jackson this afternoon in Milwaukee. Oh no, Michael Moore will fly in and the drums will start at the capital as the protesters start to arrive. Not again!! And she promised to be an impartial judge and shows up with Jackson. What a laugh!! It gets funnier and funnier!

It's good to know that you function very well in the real world Kaysbrew because that's quite an accomplishment. Congratulations!!

Since southmilfreak's comment was removed by the Gazette staff, I suggest:
Suggest removal
Zhincua comment
April 8, 2011
10:11 a.m.

Yesterday it's all sunshine and roses for the Dems - No voter fraud here - now the devil horns come out and steam coming out of the ears
youkillme - to answer your question: GREAT

I hope they do check out the voter fraud because you tried and "this is what democracy looks like"

pro-walker- L0l,,HahA

Too bad Kathy Nickalaus is not a member of a union-it would guarantee her not being fired-irony is a great thing, don't ya think!?

"The Dems tried to steal a whole city" when a republican county clerk almost forever lost it. LOL. How do you function in the real world, Kaysbrew?

Kaysbrew: By saying that you are condoning her past history. Her past history speaks for itself. And it's happening again. We don't have to get over it. We just want all county clerks to be competent. Is that too much to ask?

youkillme- Thank you, I did not know that.
One thing though, this is an AP article, I don't know if AP would have said "liberal".....depends on the reporter I guess.

Yea "rediscovered" sounds right - in the computer - Dems have tried to steal a whole city, they should know it can't be done.

Devilsadvocate and confusedperson, just chiming in with soundbites that you heard on MSNBC, doesn't make for much of an arguement. First of all the votes were not suddenly "found", they were always there. The Democratic representative signed off on the validity of the votes.

I'll agree, there should be some type of punishment or retribution paid for this type of mistake. But to paint it as a conspiracy is trumping up the hole thing, kind of like this article.

The same lefties complaing about this woman's incompetence are the first in line to (and force the rest of us to) outsource their healthcare and retirement to the government.

And by unionizing, make it impossible to fire similarly incompetent employees from state government or teaching positions.

Nothing like a fresh hot cup of hypocrisy in the morning!

With my wishful thinking, both runners could/should release a joint statement denouncing the possible error and demand a recount and investigation.

Could someone please explain the 1's and 0's and other single-digits recorded in Wards #28- #32 in Janesville. It is very strange and my previous comment was removed. I just want an answer! Perhaps it may be as simple as no one voting in those wards.

That really doesn't make any sense.

Kaysbrew, how does "rediscovered" sound.

This is a sad day for the union, thug pail bangers, yet a good day for Wisconsin citizens.

So, the Kochtopus has been seen rifling through ballots in Brookfield! The county clerk must have been so intimidated that she forgot to save Brookfield's tally. Kochtopus' reputation is becoming as legendary as Grendel's, and just as factual.

Senator Barca wants an investigation? What a surprise! I guess he now thinks that a lack of competence or integrity in elected officials are now prosecutable. He'd best be careful about setting a legal precedent like that. It's like unleashing an attack dog. Sometimes they turn around and bite you too.

RE devilsad: The facts and data aren't going to matter to these folks even though they won't be able to challenge (a) the validity of the Brookfield votes, (b) the verified Waukesha Count, (c) come up with any remotely plausible motive for Kathy Nickolaus's FUBAR. Bottomline: the delay in reporting these votes did NOT do David Prosser any favors. So what exactly is the conpiracy theory?

She didn't "find" them - get over that

I'm sure the numbers will stand. The question is whether or not this Kathy Nickolaus individual is competent or transparent enough to hold the position she does. Clearly, from I've learned already, she has some issues and just the very appearance of what has happened makes it seem that something less than truthful occurred, even if it was an accident.

Truth1, if the incumbent had been a liberal, the line would have read "could give the supreme court race to the 'liberal labor union incumbent.' That is exactly how Gazette journalist described Kloppenburg about a week ago.

I should be more clear to concernperson
We agree on the clerk - the Koch commit is ....
no worth my time

The interesting thing here is, not only does Waukesha County suddenly find 7500 votes but wala 7500 votes just happens to be roughly 1/2 of 1% of the vote. Remember the state pays for the recall if the differerence is less than 1/2 of 1%. If more, the loser foots a huge bill. Sounds like Kloppenburg may get the short end of an expensive stick. A recount with a 7500 or more vote difference would be an expensive long shot

No matter which side you're on, this incompetence (if that's all it is) is appalling. She should be subject to a criminal investigation and her personal computer should be siezed by election officials or the DOJ to see if she's telling the truth (it should have been taken already.)
.
Apparently Waukesha county has those touch screen-no paper voting machines. Anyone know if they're all over the county or just in some places? That could make a real recount impossible if there have been shenanigans.
.
Remeber, she's supposed to be the computer expert - could she just be playing dumb and apologetic after her 'human error'?

So many of the comments on blogs such as these are filled with hate, contempt and disrespect that it assures us that we will never again be the great nation we once were. Take a moment to think of the sacrifices your parents, grandparents, etc. made to make this nation great. Then take a moment to consider how what you are writing contributes to that greatness. This applies to both sides of the arguments. So many seem unable to be gracious winners or losers. Think about it. Is this the future you want for your children? Perhaps if there were more civility in these discussions our elected representatives could also catch on and behave accordingly.

concernp - WE AGREE! Break out the brew!

First paragraph, quote: "could give the supreme court race to the 'conservative incumbent'
.
LOLOL.........I wonder if the incumbent had been a liberal, if the line would have read "could give the supreme court race to the 'liberal incumbent'...somehow I doubt it....LOL

Kaysbrew: The reason being they weren't is because the clerk is incompetent.

Patriot: Is it okay, though, to allow the corrupt Koch Bros. to continue to do their dirty work in our fair state?

How can you tell when somebody is really "Pro-Walker?" - when they claim that Supreme Court Justices that rule with impartiality are "left."

"If Prosser is declared the official winner, their will be more pressure on him to break away from his corrupt GOP roots and rule with impartiality on the Budget Repair Bill than during any other time in his life."

After having been lied about and demonized by the hateful left? Whatever.

Regardless, that's all the Republicans want! Unlike Kloppenberg who had already decided the case before she heard it! http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/04/klo...

Somehow I doubt we'll be seeing that sign on any mainstream media newscasts.

Ramona Kitzinger DEMOCRAT Vice-chairman Waukesha county

Ramona Kitzinger Vice-Chairman Wauksha Co said "everything jives" she was satisfied. Brookfield reported it as wislady posted eariler. Waukesha Co clerk messed up.
The Brookfield numbers were reported to the media after midnight on election night. See:

http://brookfield-wi.patch.com/articles/......

They just weren't included in the county count that was reported to AP.

youkillme, you're killing me. Are you kidding? He may have just pulled off a decisive win in one of the most highly contested elections in history. The landscape was set for him to be un-seated, with the Mayoral race in Madison, and the County Executive races in both Milwaukee and Dane Counties, the left couldn't have asked for a more perfect storm at election time. I could have sworn I saw Chavez and Castro in line to vote. And you think for a minute he is going to suddenly swing left?

She has a history of this:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VjA...

I agree that Nickolaus should be removed from office.
Catching errors is what the canvas is supposed to do, the votes were counted....they did not just appear the next day.
That is why no one should declare victory until votes have been certified, especially with a difference of around 200 votes.

If Prosser is declared the official winner, their will be more pressure on him to break away from his corrupt GOP roots and rule with impartiality on the Budget Repair Bill than during any other time in his life.

If you want to go to the circus, just come to Wisconsin.

i cAn'T WaiT to REad JohNNy BoYs rAnT.

Truth: Right on! We look like a joke.

What a great day to peruse the blogs....Anything interesting happen in the past 24 hours?

The Brookfield numbers were reported to the media after midnight on election night. See:

http://brookfield-wi.patch.com/articles/...

They just weren't included in the county count that was reported to AP.

"Prosser told Fox News on Thursday night that the race should not be considered a referendum on Walker or any legislation that may end up at the court."
.
If he believes this he is as out of touch with WI as he is a raging mysoginist.
.
GrandmaM if she's elected she can be recalled or voted out next election. Unlikely in Waukesha county. If that happens she'll probably get a high paying state job as her reward for being the hero of this election (to the repubs).

I think this was engineered by MSNBC to boost ratings over FOX.
Then again I have had "crow" before.

County clerks are elected. Waukesha County voters chose her. She chose to go against recommendations that she use the County (or State?) computer and the programming that would save the data as it was entered. She obviously didn't have the data program on her personal computer set to save frequently, a very easy thing to do. Her attention to detail is nil. Her history, along with this "mistake" make her totally unfit for any job that would involve handling voting or other data. But as an elected official, what can be done to remove her from office?

As they scrape egg off their faces.

Who decides which AP headlines to put on the front page of the Gazette?

So Kloppenturd claims victory with 200 vote margin but a 7000 vote margin in the opposite direction is not enough to concede? Interesting.

Oh God I hate to hear this whining. Get a grip folks. The canvassing will be done and the results will be published. Then, if someone wants a recount it will be addressed. The jumping to conclusions about who won with a 200 vote margin was the error. Wait until the results are in. The Gazette was in error for jumping on the bandwagon as well.

spark: The problem here is that this woman seems to make one human error after another. If that is what it is, then she should not be in the position and she should never have been county clerk in the first place. Most people in this world have to do their jobs with accuracy. How does she get away with it?

If we didn't look like a joke to the nation, we can't deny that we do now.

This stinks about as bad as the 2000 Florida recount!!!!!!

You may criticize those who are claiming voter fraud or Walker shanigans...but you cannot blame Wisconsinites for wondering. Since Walker took office three months ago, he has divided our state into 2 sides (there is no majority), had the house claim a victorius vote in under 17 seconds, had Senators take a separate on the side meeting to pass the collective bargaining part of his bill in the whee hours of the night with possibly violating open meeting laws, the DOA claiming $7 million in damage to the capitol, etc...there has been alot of scandal in this administration in a short three months...so one has to wonder about this too. You would be foolish not to! Look at the Waukesha clerks background with Prosser and the Republican party. I am saying a TRUE LEADER is one who brings people together during hard times even with severe differences, history proves the ones that drive us apart are nothing but providing for their own one sided agenda. Prosser is the better of the two, no doubt about it, but Walker has tainted this state so much that people are willing to put an unqualified person in our highest court to stop him...what does that say?

They should be ashamed of themseleves.

This situation demonstrates what some radical or corrupt individuals are willing to do in an attempt to inhibit progress in this state. I’m sorry but I have a hard time believing that this was a simple mistake as the result of human error.

concernedperson - Now, I would agree with your last post because that makes sense. It's not pointing and playing the blame game.

concernedperson - Our votes don't count anymore. I think the democrats had something do with it. They must have purposely misplaced those ballets in an attempt to win. After all, it could go both ways, right?
-
Give me a break. Can you possibly reach any further? It was an error.

From a different post by shortcircuit in another article:
"I agree that the votes needed to be counted if they were missing and that is why the processes are in place. But the problem is, the Waukesha County Clerk was using a system that she personally designed on a free standing PC, not a network with backup, with outdated unsupported software and didn't allow her IT department to verify how it works.
-
All counties need to be required to use the same computer software to tally the elections. We can't have individual people, or even counties, designing their own computer programs for state and national elections."

Shortcircuit is correct. All systems in the state of Wisconsin need to be uniform. Maybe, just maybe, then we could be sure we were having a fair election.

Again, it's terrible that a person in the position of county clerk is this incompetent.

Always a pleasure to read another bias article published by the lib-left AP, and featured by the Janesville Gazette. Barca's statement about this not instilling confidence and integrity was, undoubtedly, measured to the confidence and integrity of Sen Cullen and his cohorts who went on the union sponsored sojourn to Illinois. I especially enjoyed the previous article..."Wisconsin Sends Gov Strong, Angry Message". Curiously, no mention is being made about the strong, angry message the other Wisconsinite's that made the effort to vote sent to the school teachers and the union thugs who abandoned their responsibilities and trashed Madison. The real shame lies with these groups for damaging the integrity and confidence the Wisconsin public once held for educators!! Teachers, boycotting Wisconsin business, union thugs...beginning to sound as one note!!!

No, I'm not giving her a break. She should have been prosecuted back in 2002, and then to get a job as county clerk yet! She definitely needs to be gone now. She is incompetent! Since she has had so many problems in the past, THIS DOES CALL INTO QUESTION ANY PREVIOUS ELECTIONS THAT SHE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH!

I am thinking the same thing. Our votes don't count anymore. Yes, I think the governor and Koch's may have had something to do with this. They seem to get away with everything.

The fact is, the county clerk made the initial error. When they canvassed and found the error, there was was DEMOCRAT, Ramona Kritzinger present at the canvass who later said that the votes found late were indeed legitimate.

Maybe she has tenure and can't be fired.

worriedcitizen: HE WAS NOT ELECTED BY AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT!

prounion - is your shower broken?

pablo: I used to call names when I was in middle school, then I grew up.
Even if this is accurate, it stinks. It adds to the Ziegler/Gableman/Prosser tradition: getting elected to the Supreme Court under troubling circumstances. His credibility, whether deserved or not, is tarnished.
This was a big election, and the mysterious appearance of votes angers folks. mariekos is correct too: If 7500 late votes appeared from a Milwaukee or Madison precinct, Prosser voters wouldn't care, right?

And don't be hypocritical the other way either. If you'd just found out your side won instead of losing, you'd be defensive about the manner in which it came about.
­
But, let's be honest. No matter who won, no matter who lost, no matter by how much or how little, there would still be cries of "FOUL!", echoing from the rooftops.

Dirty.

Cons take the following into account and see if it gets you all roiled up:

"ABC County Clerk worked for 13 years for KLOPPENBERG when she was Assistant Attorney General.
County Clerk said it was "human error" that resulted in more than 14,000 votes from her predominantly Democratic county not being reported to The Associated Press on Tuesday."

Don't tell me that if this story was completely inverted that you wouldn't be foaming at the mouth with cries of foul. Don't be hypocritical.

This lady shouldn't have been in charge anyway! Kind of makes you wonder about past elections as well...

Wait, let me get my "Tinfoil Hat"....
OK.... Now I can start on the comment boards.....

Yesterday the Koppenberg constituents were all over how they won. there is no fraud or someone making things up, but this will drag on forever. I'm sick of the whole thing. the Governor was elected by an overwhelming amount, now let him and the representatives do their job and stop all this. If you don't like what he has done in 4 years you can replace him in the next election and then the next guy can do what he wants and give everything back that some people think they are entitled to. I'm wondering why we have elections. Evidently my vote isn't supposed to count.

Wow - she still has a job, while so many competent professionals are soon getting the axe - where's the justice?

This is why they canvas after an election . This is why you don't declare victory in a un-official race with a 200 vote lead . I'm also sure there will be other vote changes in addition to the 10 counties already....Have a Great Day Wisconsin Voters , the rest of ya , not as great !

Human error my foot. Nickolausis incompetent and should be relieved of her duties. I'm sick of this mess.

http://www.newser.com/article/d9mfcd982/...
mmmmmmm!!!! I found some insulation votes hidden above the ceiling tiles.
Put her on a lie detector and I will eat cheese from a mouse trap.

Not a conspiracy, city of Brookfield posted on the city website the vote total for the elections on Tuesday night. It clearly did not match what the county posted on Tuesday night. Simple mistake, but I'm sure that the democraps will tie this up in court for months to come.

People make mistakes. Give the lady a break. Both sides had people there and say this is a mistake not some right wing conspiracy. Oh I forgot liberals never make mistakes. I do agree that this lady should not have her job after this.

WOW can you smell walker and the Kock brothers behind this. What does this show to the state that the clerk cant do her job. I am sorry but she need to be given her pink slip. Nickolaus also has been criticized by the Waukesha County Board for her handling of past elections and lack of oversight in her operations. So it is not the first time she has done anything like this. IT NEEDS TO BE THE LAST. I am pretty sure that Walker will have her funded for the rest of her life. This state is getting worse everyday.

I surmise it must have been an evil scheme implemented through mindless drones all controlled by the sinister koch brothers...

I heard this is a special on tin foil, for those wanting to make new hats.

I guess I am simply shocked that she even still HAS a job! With her past history, I would have "downsized" her... and sent her packing back in 2002!

"...a data analyst and computer specialist?"
Hardly!

AP couldn't write a story accurately to save their lives. No votes were "found" they were there and counted but not properly forwarded to the state.
.
question of integrity? no appearance of any deliberate wrongdoing. The press conference included the local democrat party person at the polls who said than this was a plain data entry error.
question of competence? yes.
.
this is also what we get for declaring winners/loosers before the vote is official. We still don't know who officially won yet.

Probably a human error, but the background of the lady involved and that being she was given immunity in the prosecution in a 2002 criminal investigation means that this needs to seriously be looked at. Her lack of cooperation and problems with security, passwords, etc adds to the confusion and alarm to many voters.

Although it is a VERY convenient number of votes (just enough to NOT trigger a state-funded automatic recount) in the most heavily republican county in the state (hmmmm....), it appears that this is truly just nothing more than human error. We'll just have to wait and see if any more errors are found before this is done....

Those "hanging chads" seem to do this all the time.