@spark: Yes, I said even "more government spending". Hopefully you can convince this Democratic Presidential voting state to agree with you in 2012.

greatplain - I will vote on his failure in 2012. If you think putting the wars on the books was the only thing that grew the deficit, you are very misinformed. Ironic that you used the word "government spending" in your post. That's got a little something to do with Obama and the deficit.

Whew! For a minute there I thought the deficit was rising because spending had gone up under Obama. Now, thanks to your post, I can see how wrong I was. Thanks for clearing that up!

Folks can blame Obama for the economy, and then can vote on his success or failure in November.....2012.
Trickle down trickled down right into a near Depression. Obama should have listened to Krugman and went for more government spending. Also, Obama grew the deficit by finally putting the cost of the wars....on the books. If you have big debt, you can't be like W. and hide the statements in your desk and ignore them.

Once you put hard questions to the lefties, it gets vewy vewy quiet. Nothing but crickets!

If the economy turns around before the next election, I imagine he'll be taking the credit for that. Its a two way street.

Flick, cartoons seem to be the extent of your understanding of government. Now back to the question about why you only pay what is required for your taxes....are you a principled person or another whining hypocrite that wants others to pay more but you never do?

to this article....I DO!!!! your the one to blame, you did it your guilty...now stop putting the blame on Bush its all yours big guy

westorbust - the reason that Obama is to blame is primarily partisan - huge spending bills that were passed by lawmakers only because of party affiliation (without even reading them).

http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/p...

Flick, still waiting....crickets, crickets, crickets.

So before Reagan, people used to try to pay more than they had to for labor and raw materials? That's interesting. Could you expound on how such an economy works, and where such a system has ever been in place?

The policies enacted, starting with Reagan and continuing through Clinton and Bushy Jr., are what led us over the edge. The belief that markets could not do what just happened led policy makers and economists down the road of "let it all ride baby, it's all good." "Markets self-correct", etc...

Is it Obama's fault? Sure, it's also Nixon's, Ford's, Carter's, Reagan's, Bush Sr's, Clinton's, and Bush Jr's.

There are no rich people without poor people. The kool-aid that people continually guzzle down is that everyone thinks that they can be rich too. You can't. No tax cut or union will do either one, yet that's what either side would like you to believe.

Our entire global economy is based on exploitation of either cheap labor, or cheap raw materials. If you are comfortable as a slave owner, because that's essentially what we have created, a third world slavery system, then by all means, continue these silly partisan debates.

But as long as Mr. and Mrs. America can pay their mortgage and don't default on their credit cards and student loans, it's all good.

what? blame Obama for his own careless, partisan spending? duh

http://i.imgur.com/p45H2.png

Flick, still waiting for the answer or are you still running away from direct debate?

Oops - in addition to bigotry and "tax the rich" arguments, you also know you're winning the argument when a liberal says "but they did it too!" Like my 10 year old son.

Even if your implication that Republicans should believe that recounting some counties' votes and not others didn't violate equal protection laws because the state of Florida wanted to do it (which is at best a stupid argument), you still sound like a crybaby!

SOme of the comments at the bottom are rediculous. He is in charge. He is steering the ship. He is the captain and the captain goes down with the ship. It was his advisors that said what needed to done. He has failed miserably at every turn. Get used to it. He ruining the chance for our children to have the same opportunities we have had and mayb become the worst president in history since FDR.

meh...The jobs are right where BuSh and the GOP want them. Here's the link.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...

Republicans are no strangers to hypocrisy. How about states' rights and Terri Schiavo or states' rights and Bush v Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000)? Any time there is blind loyalty to the tribe, hypocrisy won't be far behind.

RAF - You settle up outside after making your point. Then ask if they'd like to discuss subject of empathy. (Or hypocrisy, depending upon how angry they are at you.)

Democrats are notorious for wanting the rules (or lack thereof) to apply to everyone but them, like Charlie Rangel rasing everyone's taxes but evading them himself, or Al Gore who donates almost nothing to charity or emits more CO2 than entire countries.

The biggest hypocrites though are the Democrats that constantly tell us that social mores don't matter and are old fashioned. Until you date their daughters.

Rich white liberals constantly push anti-marriage, easy sex policies and attitudes that are absolutely killing (literally) the lower classes they profess to be concerned about, all the while they're holed up in their comfortable New England homes where out of wedlock births are actually very rare, far away from the chaos they contribute to.

FOTH, sounds good but I would never do that. I have a strict policy of paying my own way... otherwise I end up just like them.

RAF- Invite a really wealthy one out to dinner and order the most expensive items on the menu. Discuss politics throughout the entire meal. When the check comes, tell them that they have convinced you to re-evaluate your philosophical beliefs. Proclaim your new mantra, "To each according to need, from each according to ability!" That's sure to make them smile. While they are still smiling, stand up and walk out of the restaurant.

Obama will go down as the second worst president in history, right after Andrew Johnson. LOL @ all his followers. He is more charismatic that Reagan ever was...

FOTH, it does make having a logical discussion with folks like that impossible; sometimes I wonder why I try.

RAF - Your 5:56 post brings back old memories. As a very young man, I would regularly debate my father-in-law, who was a die-hard pro-labor, pro-union socialist. He was older, wiser and very well read on the subject of political philosophy. It was very frustrating for a young and naive free-market libertarian because he would immediately counter any point I made with a well rehearsed, canned rebuttal. Then, one day I had an epiphany and couldn't wait to present my air-tight case. During our next heated but friendly debate, I laid out a detailed accounting of how he spoke like Karl Marx while every aspect of his personal life exemplified someone who was a true libertarian at heart. (I could see no way for him to back out of THAT corner!) He listened intently and the instant I finished my spiel he whipped out a huge grin and proclaimed proudly, "Oh, that answer is simple... I'm a hypocrite!" I was speechless.

That was our last debate on the subject. It's been nearly forty years and I am still waiting to meet one socialist who isn't.

Maybe this was posted already but can someone show me a link where all these jobs are that were created by Bush's tax cuts for the rich? Thanks for any info.

Ondayatatime, you are confused over the existing stimulus that was passed in 2009 and the current jobs bill held up in the senate by more than just rep.

The money you correctly state has not all been paid out, 2009 stimulus, has already been appropriated (huge debt). This is already approved to be spent and no further action by congress or the senate is required to make it happen. The administration has sole control of how fast this money is spent; within stipulations placed into the bill as passed.

The current debate over ANOTHER bill (jobs bill) in the senate has nothing to do with the old stimulus bill that was passed ~18 months ago.

Placing blame for unspent stimulus dollars on other legislation is deceitful; by mistake or on purpose.

"Please enlighten us RAF, since you must know how individuals can choose what rate they pay. You didn't put a lot of thought into that question did you?"
-
Flick, your deflection of answering the questions asked of you shows much of your character. You are the one that has repeatedly said tax cuts were bad. If you had conviction for your position why did you take the tax cuts? You could ALWAYS pay more to the federal government than is required; they will take it. By you only paying what is required you benefited from the same EVIL tax cuts you complain about.

Thus, your echoing of left leaning mantras including tax cuts are bad, while accepting these cuts yourself shows you have no principled conviction. This however is a commonality to all who say tax cuts are bad. I have yet to meet a single person who thought these cuts were bad that continued to pay their own taxes at the old rate.

Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.

Until the politicians can work together nothing will get done.

Well, he did inherit a mess. However almost 1½ years in, has the situation gotten any better? Not any that I can see. Therefore I suspect that the voters have a right to blame his policies. And most anybody knows that spending money you don't have is NOT the was to go. He has managed to jack up the national debt to an astronomical amount with his spending & what is to show for it?

djs-what is this MALADO you speak of, and what does it have to do with your REAL reason for disliking our current president?
(as if I didn't know)

Oh,wait I can't vote Im illegal.I love this coutry!!!eh,eh,eh.

48suks Go ahead and vote for MALADO. He is a out and out communist. Wake up people before it is to late. I don't want my grand kids living in a communist country.

Please enlighten us RAF, since you must know how individuals can choose what rate they pay. You didn't put a lot of thought into that question did you?

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/stimulu... "CBO also estimated that about $190 billion of ARRA’s authorized $787 billion had been spent by the end of September, about $100 billion of it in direct outlays and $90 billion in tax cuts. That leaves nearly $600 billion to go."
http://rutledgecapital.com/2009/06/03/ho... for HHS and the Dept. of Labor, less than 2% of the money appropriated to all other departments (Education, Transportation, Energy, …) has been spent. The total spent so far is just $24.6 billion out of $379 billion.

As for the stimulus having not worked; it's pretty hard to say it hasn't worked when only 32% of it has been spent as of one year ago this month and less than that in speific areas (2nd link. Maybe it won't work, but we won't know if bills to spend it keep getting filibustered ie; jobs bill. We know that the republican policies do not work, it took 8 years to get here, we can't expect it to be cleaned up by anyone in 18 months time. If the Republicans regain control of the house and Senate, can I as a "leftie", come back here in 18 months and ask the conservatives " why haven't you fixed it yet"?

This site answers many of the questions asked here about the stimulus, President Bush proposed it and president Obama signed it into law.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/02/gop-sti...

Flick you still failed to answer the question...wonder why?

To address your inability to read the BLS data try again. For ~5 years following the 2003 tax cuts there was continuous job growth. This contradicts your original claim "they have failed to create those jobs". To address the drop in jobs starting in mid-late 2007 I guess you slept through the housing bubble and what this did to the banking, investment, and credit portions of our economy. Being that employment is a lagging indicator it is easy to see what caused the drop. The fact you can't accept that for the initial 5 years the tax cuts did exactly as predicted shows your partisan blinders are on a little too tight.

Now that I have addressed all your questions I anxiously await your answer on why you have not paid taxes at the older higher rate, if as you claim, this was a bad idea.

I guess Obama is to blame for this too. Number of millionaires increase 16% under Obama's watch from a decrease of 27% under Bush's watch.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03...

48suks, how about the increase in poverty from 13 to 15% under OBAMAS watch?

"Like I lined my pockets"...you can't be serious?

And your lack of understanding of statistics is astounding. The BLS data shows that unemployment went from 4.0% at the start of The Bush Admin to 7.4% at the end. Furthermore, since the Bush tax cuts are still in place and the unemployment rate at 9.6%, would seem to refute your claims that employment increased under his tax plan.

http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2004/0...

http://www.faireconomy.org/files/Distrib...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publicati...

Of course we can rely on Faux News to report the news accurately. Watch this in its entirety, you might learn something about fair and balanced reporting of Faux News.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-se...

Sarah, the link is a brief synopsis without all the numbers,; short and quick version.

http://www.wikinvest.com/wiki/Troubled_A...)

Bottom line, the housing bubble was the source for most of the problems.

OBAMA IS GREAT!!!I will vote for him again in 2 years.

Thanks for the follow-up comment, facts101. Like I said, I don't know much about the bailout other than I remember President Bush giving a speech from the Oval Office strongly advocating for the proposal and that it be acted upon ASAP.

SarahB1 My point was that banks were bailed out and continue to get money from the FED at 0% interest rate. What do the lend at when they lend at all? They are lining their pockets at taxpayers expense. And yes most have repaid the bailouts they got. And they can afford it with the deal they still enjoy.

Sarah-Please don't let facts get in the way of the right wing narative that is going on right now.

I found this interesting tidbit this morning: "President Bush --- not President Obama --- enacted TARP and signed the Bank bailout into law towards the end of his presidency. And yet a large percentage of Americans believe that Obama is responsible, according to a Pew survey:

"Only a third of Americans (34 percent) correctly say the Troubled Asset Relief Program was enacted by the Bush administration. Nearly half (47 percent) incorrectly believe TARP was passed under President Obama. Another 19 percent admit they do not know which president signed the bank bailout into law."

I don't know if I misunderstood facts101's comment (on Sept. 11 at 8:18 a.m.), but this poll might help some of us remember history. I would like to hear more comments about the bank bailout and if it was a positive or negative for our nation's economy. I have heard that most of the bailout has been repaid already, which makes me think it helped us or, at least, some of us. Can anybody help me out on this? And, I am being sincere here. Please don't mistake this comment as sarcasm.

"Why should the majority of Americans be in debt for the unfunded tax cuts"
-
I will address this false premise separately.

This false notion presented by politicians and pundants alike is absurd. Spending is either funded or unfunded. A receipt, which tax collections are, is revenue. There is no guarantee to revenue and ALL revenue is not funded it is received.

If spending is not reduced and spending exceeds revenue it is a deficit.

“The point being the jobs the Bush tax cuts were suppose to create. After all, that was the main selling point behind the Bush tax cuts. Where are the jobs?”
-
Even more sad that your denial of history continues when facts are presented to show you the truth. Following the 2003 tax cuts, the same ones you enjoyed, employment increased...

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOu...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_and_Gr...

Still waiting for you to answer my questions........

“Why should the majority of Americans be in debt for the unfunded tax cuts, of which, 65% went to the top 1% of wage earners?”
-
It is obvious you have no grasp of math. If the top 1% pay more than the bottom 90%, when there is a reduction in rates, dollar wise, they will keep more of their OWN money. Percentage wise it was that same for all, based on IRS tables.

Now that I answered your question, why don’t you answer the questions I asked of you?????

RAF ... YOU should read my post again. The point being the jobs the Bush tax cuts were suppose to create. After all, that was the main selling point behind the Bush tax cuts. Where are the jobs?

Why should the majority of Americans be in debt for the unfunded tax cuts, of which, 65% went to the top 1% of wage earners?

Hardly a deflection, you are the one that brought up the idea of lining pockets (read your own comments), so I commented on it. You accuse others of lining their pockets and “screw”ing the rest of the people. So I ask you again, like you lined your pockets? A person with conviction would only pay what they thought was right, if you thought it was wrong (your words---screw others) why did you not pay at the higher rate?

Nice job at trying to deflect the attention away from the jobs issue. However, Bush and the GOP sold the tax cuts for the wealthy citing all the jobs they would create. With over 9.5% unemployment, where are all the jobs that were promised?

There is a difference between Bush's riding the economy downhill as if on a skateboard and Obama riding the economy down like he jumped off a bridge.

"Well, they've had their Bush tax cuts for several years now and they have failed to create those jobs"

Well, the liberal social spending machine has been in place for 45 years, are the poor better off yet Flick?

"Rather they are just lining their pockets with those tax cuts and say screw you to the rest of the people."

So, those supposed wealthy folks, through risk taking and entrepeunership, do not have a right to keep more of their money Flick? Is that what you are saying? Explain. Why do they owe everyone else?

Provide it free and they will line up by the millions. Why work hard?

Flick, like you lined you pockets with the tax cuts you received? If the tax cuts are so bad why did you take them? A person with conviction would only pay what they thought was right, if you thought it was wrong why did you not pay at the higher old rate?

Good point Flick.

The GOP claimed that the wealthy need tax cuts because they are the ones that create the jobs. Well, they've had their Bush tax cuts for several years now and they have failed to create those jobs. So really that was just a line of BS. Rather they are just lining their pockets with those tax cuts and say screw you to the rest of the people.

Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, and small people talk about other people. Obama has been talking about Bush for 19 months. Case closed.

facts101, I love the comment. Maybe other people will realize the same thing. The stimulus was money given to all the elitists that had screwed themselves and they were bailed out before the American taxpayer ever saw a dime of the stimulus. If that money was given out to the people who actually paid it to the gov't in the first place it would have helped, but the way it was done was wrong.

Um he's been president Bush got blamed for 9/11 7 months into his presidency. Actually was less than that due to the court battle over the election. Obama just can't bring it to himself saying he was wrong. BTW wasn't the "stimulus" package supposed to create all these jobs? I'm guessing if it would have worked he would be taking credit for that. His lack of experience is sure showing.

All these comments just amaze me. Every President going back to the 1800's have been nothing but a puppet on a string. The elite behind the scene are the one's that determine what is going to happen in this country. They control the money in this country and along with there counter parts around the world determine what is going to happen. We are nothing but sheeple being used as slaves.Google Illuminate and educate yourselves.

numbers stayed the same

thekid3477 Just a quick question on your insurance. When your insurance went down did your deductibles go up? I was just wondering cause that is usually the way it works.Where I work they took our HMO and gave us a crappy 80/20 plan issued by the company. Its very bad insurance but at least I have something.

werpknarly
any student of economics will know that a dollar spent in a community is spent many times over, locally then regionally
So if Obama had sent each one of us a check out of that 800 billion how much do you think that would have helped?It would have been spent locally and then regionally. But no instead lets bail out Wall Street and car companies that were poorly managed. And the banks really got a deal and are still getting a deal from the Fed at 0%. What have the American people gotten from this huge pile of debt? More promises and the want of more money to try something else. Do I blame Obama you bet. Do I blame Bush for ignoring things until they were out of control? You bet I do. When Bush took office Clinton left him the same way. Things were starting to tank and Clinton did nothing to prevent it since the next president was a Republican and he could deal with it. Lets not even think about the "projected surplus" that many of you will claim. Its just the damn games they play at the American peoples expense that pisses me off. And we as a people let it continue so should we blame ourselves...you bet.

916: yet when i pass along information im called out because my 'justifications' are laughable?? ok. im not gonna waste my time looking thru pasts posts, but im sure i could find someon who was against the bill that made reference to the premiums going up right away because insurance ocmpanies would instantly raise their premiums to the maximum level. actually, i remember hearing that as an argument against obamacare. now, again as i said the first time, i know obamacare had nothing to do with my insurance going down. but it certainly didnt cause it to go up as we were told.

As I suspected, another person that complains of the old policies that caused the problems we have now yet can't name one.

http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/p...

btw, current president obama proposal? paid for by cutting tax brakes to oil companies. spent on? another country? no.. here building for our future. any student of economics will know that a dollar spent in a commuity is spent many times over, locally then regionally

spend billions blowing up other people to make them like us? or spend billions rebuilding our road, falling down bridges, blowing up gas mains,,, spend billions killing millions of iraqies, or like china has been doing.. go around the world, making friends and secure natural resources for their future.. not our future. spend billions screwing up another generation of fine young men and women in the arm forces (like vietam) or spend billions here to provide training and jobs to rebuild our nation for the future? what a waste of eight years

werpknarly, I have been waiting for anyone to point to the policies that bush implemented which caused the economic problem we see today. Do you know which policy or policies exactly that caused it? I anxiously await your response.

For starters let’s talk about the wars. Without arguing about the right or wrong reasons behind be them; 9/11 and Iraq constant firing on our aircraft and pilots for a decade following the first gulf war. The money spent on the wars over all these years was less than the current stimulus. So if the wars caused the bad economy how does spending more money make it better?

Lets talk about the bush tax cuts. The left has said these were bad, yet none of these people have paid more than they were required this whole time...they took the tax break. Now the dem politicians are saying removing the tax cuts is a bad idea. So if these tax cuts caused the problem why did they not pay back their breaks and why do they now say it is a good thing to keep them?

Civics 101: There are 100 people in the senate. The fact that a 60% margin has not been met speaks to the purpose of the senate, all legislation must pass this test to continue. Having 59 current votes on the majority side and some of these members have voted no, shows the legislation is not tolerable enough to pass the rules of the senate.

If the rep senators from Maine, that are more moderate than most, are not on board then there needs to be compromise in the proposed legislation. That is how government works; it takes the votes to pass.

The very fact with majorities in both houses and the white house for the current president to complain the other side is at fault shows the inept ability to lead and govern.

"Obama could pass all the laws and regulation and taxes he wants with the democrats in majority he has behind him."

Civics 101: 60 of 100 votes are required to bypass a filibuster by the minority in the Senate, which effectively means 60 votes are required to pass any law, since Republicans are choosing to use the filibuster rule in record numbers. Democrats lost their 60 vote majority (which included 2 independants that caucus with them) when Republican Brown was inaugurated on February 4th of this year, and are sure to lose more seats in November.

i guess john mccain renouced his citizenship when his mother gave birth to him in Panama... http://tinyurl.com/5ufbz3

not republicans fault? who was president when we were losing 750,000 jobs per month? Debt out of control? who started an unnecessary war and ignored our real enemies in Afghanistan? Who spent 8 years kissing the king of Saudi Arabia and holding his hand? http://tinyurl.com/36e93ud If lower taxes for the rich put us in this mess, how will lower taxes get us out of this mess? btw, bushes lower taxes started as his idea to give the surpluses from Clinton back to the country, NOT to stimulate the economy Yes...Give the keys back to the drunks who drove us into the ditch. as for the economy, still sucks for those unemployeed, but if you open your ears, bit by bit the economy is coming back.. just talked with someone working in milton, her company is at full production for 1st shift and looking to add a second shift... many other companies are running on overtime.

Re:
Obama's lenth in Office!
Gonefishin and marge123~
No~ My head is not in the sand!!
Just been preoccupied with my
Sons who have been in Iraq
(more than 1 tour) and job hunting!
Oh~ wait ..
Why were My and Other Military Family Members
IN Iraq!! Oh! Yah!!! BUSH
Why am I Job Hunting??? BUSH

Obama blames the GOP on obstructionism, he blames George Bush on the rotten economy.
I got news - George Bush is not the president and the GOP does not have the majority in congress. Obama could pass all the laws and regulation and taxes he wants with the democrats in majority he has behind him.

Obama's momma renounced her and his citizenship when she went back to Africa. When Obama went to colledge and studied in Africa he had to renouce his citizenship. Has anyone ever heard him say that this is false?? I guess that all of you that feel threatend by a person that has more of an understanding of the political view, and understands government better then I guess you shall get what you deserve under KING OBAMA.

Thekid3477.....Too funny--you consider passing along information as arrogant behavior? If "obamacare" hasn't kicked in yet, it has absolutely no affect on your insurance going up or down.....we just needed to clarify your statement--"it certainly did not go up because of "obamacare" by adding the reason it did not go up is because the program has yet to be implemented:) With any luck, when the Republicans reclaim control of Congress, key segments of Obama's HCR can be defunded to lessen the burden on the taxpayers......

Bark Park

SarahB1...by the sound of it I think he already is.

man_with_a_brain, there you go again, calling someone "not learned", yet you are the one saying you hope Obama will be "kicked out in the mid-term elections". You know he's not on the ballot, right? Go learn something.

916 - "obamacare" is already helping children with pre-existing conditions and students. Thankfully!!

thanx for verifying what i said 916. your arrogance is peeking out again sir;)

thekid3477....."Obamacare" definitely had no affect on the decrease of your health care costs. It won't affect the vast majority of people until after 2012. The first groups that it will affect are children with preexisting conditions and college students on their parent's policies. I don't even think those groups have been affected yet.......

im w bella...i get a kick out of the poeple that seriously think his citizenship wasnt determined well before his run for president. as if that minor detail could squeak thru.

man_without_a_brain: my share of my health insurance seriously just went down $500/year. my share. im not saying its because of obamacare...but it certainly did not go up because of obamacare.

man_with_a_brain; kind of stretch calling others ignorant when you yourself are still questioning the President's citizenship. Hilarious.

Mr NV you not a very learned man are you. Obama has messed up this nation so bad. Insurance is going up because of his dumb health plan. Do you realize that more the 75% of leagal americans have insurance?? No you don't because of you ignorante liberal view point. I'll even be you want all the illeagals to have access to everything with no consequences. In any other country in the world, if you don't have proper documentation you are arrested, even in Mexico. May be you need to go back to school.

man-with-a-brain.....Name change needed.

wow I can't believe how ignorant some people are. Obama is the absolutley the worst president. He is so full of himself. I can't wait until the mid-term elections, and I hope that they prove he is not a leagal citizen and throw him out on his backside.

in office for less then a year--better go look up when he took office.

IT'S NOT OBAMA'S FAULT!!
You Cannot blame a President
who has only been in office
for less than a year.
He can't fix in this short time,
What was left him when he took office!

Put the Blame WHERE it BELONGS!!
BUSH .. BUSH ... BUSH ... BUSH ...
Nothing more needs to be said!!!