Neither the president's economic team nor our congress is intelligent enough to handle a recession, as proven by their actions. We got this Hire Act, which is senseless because businesses cannot hire when there is no work available. We got this road construction, and now water works projects, which do not stimulate jobs for our kids. The bottom line is that stimulating businesses to expand with tax credits works, but that's not what the dimwits did. Personally, I think the DOT is dirty and the rest just plain lazy/stupid. A bunch of attorneys do not have the brain power to figure out when an intersection is ripped apart for over six months, this is not creating a longterm job. A roundabout is never going to stimulate a new industrial era. There is no other way, we have to have another industrial revolution. A bunch of Harvard geniuses flunking history/economics has unilaterally decided that their people must lack the talent to re-industrial America because they lack the talent to do anything but sleep in their cushy chairs.

Zoom stated, "You're making an assumption that I won't be paying more. "
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Hardly. I made the point you sit back and call for others to have their money taken from them while only providing what you are required to based on existing law.

Your failure to support your own idea, not stepping up to the plate now, diminishes your position to class envy; wanting to take something from others you don't have, their money. Very small minded, then again with your thoughts on beating women nothing is a far stretch.

NoLeftist & Bond: Amen! I agree! Well said!

"Or are you just going to sit back and complain others should pay more of theirs..."

You're making an assumption that I won't be paying more. You know what happens when you assume...

"So, when are you going to give more than required to by law in taxes?"

When did you stop beating your wife?

#11: I believe we need to make health care more affordable by making it more expensive.

#12: I believe I am way too stupid to determine what kind of health insurance is best for me, and thus will leave that up to the government.

#13: I believe I should be put in jail if I make the wrong choice for #12.

#14: I believe in order to save Medicare, we need to cut $500 billion from it and spend it on a new entitlement.

#15: I believe in order to encourage competition in health insurance, we need to drive insurers out of business (like we already have with Assurant Health in Milwaukee).

#16: I believe we need to legalize pot and outlaw kids' meals.

#17: I believe it is bigoted to oppose a mosque at ground zero, but tolerant to overlook Black Panther party members using racial epithets to threaten voters at polling places.

#18: I believe in government transparency unless it's a really imporant issue, like taking over 1/6 of the U.S. economy, then we should do all deals behind closed doors.

#19: I believe Barack Obama when he tells me his budgets will result in a "net spending cut."

#20: I believe Barack Obama won't raise my taxes.

When your friends can't explain why they voted for Democrats, give them this list. They can then pick a reason. Just put I voted Democrat because, at the start of each one. #10 I believe oil companie's profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't. #9 I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. #8 I believe freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. #7 I'm way to irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves. #6 I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. #5 I'm not concerened about the slaughter of millions of babies through abortion so long as we keep all death row inmates alive. #4 I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and social security benefits. #3 I believe that buisness should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest to the government for redristribuition as the Democrats see fit. #2 I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters. and #1 I voted democrat because my head is so firmly planted up my backside that it is unlikely that I'll ever have another point of view. I'll keep my Freedom, my God and my Guns... You keep the change..

Zoom your childish remarks are very telling.

The true fallacy is you having no conviction of your own ideas. If paying more taxes is a good thing, step up to the plate and lead by example. Your failure to support your own idea diminishes your position to class envy; wanting to take something from others you don't have. Very small minded, then again with your thoughts on beating women nothing is a far stretch.

So, when are you going to give more than required to by law in taxes? Or are you just going to sit back and complain others should pay more of theirs...

RAF, answering your logical fallacy "statement" (nevermind how someone even "asnwers" a "statement") would be like asking you when you stopped beating your wife.

Zoom, I see you never answered the statement, stepping up to the plate until required too...interesting how those on the left are so willing to have others money given away yet never give their own away voluntarily for the very reason they think are good.

The situation has gone beyond taxation to fund government and entitlements. We have moved in to a phase where the printing presses can hardly keep up with the demand for government spending. This has got to stop. Upper class, middle class, or poor we must all get off our butts and demand responsibility from our government and from ourselves. By ourselves I am talking about people who won't work because the job is not right for you. If the job doesn't pay what you used to make, too bad. You may just have to work more hours or get an education to better yourself. If you want to live outside your means you better be working double shifts at Wendys 7 days a week.
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Government stimulus is not working. We are printing money to fund dreams. The trickle down from stimulus projects is not going to get this country back on it's feet. Hard work and fiscal responsibility is what we need right now.

I thin a better solution would be for the Government to try spending less, hence what we pay taxes for. Similar to how we're preached to watch our own debt. Don't spend what we don't have. Just my simple opinion. Sometimes I think the Government should try thinking "simpler."

I apologize for the name calling, but your snarky 1:06 comment was hardly "friendly".

The hyperbole is "If raising taxes is what's going to apparently solve the problem", and, "let's just tax the crap out of everyone".

...no need for name calling though. Just a friendly conversation here.

I don't know the facts, remember? According to your posts, this tax on the rich would apply to you because I don't know what you make. Therefore I can only assume, you make a lot and support being taxed more for it. Like I said, not too bright. Merely my opinion based on the info you are supplying. Have at it if you want to donate to the cause.

spark, now you're just replying with hyperbole. Try to stick to the facts.

...oh and if you want to be taxed more for your apparent wealth, you my friend are an idiot.

zoom - take a look in the mirror if your going to act like a 12 year old.

no, spark, an idiot is someone who assumes the tax wouldn't apply to whomever they are arguing with.

..and truthfully, I don't care what you make. If raising taxes is what's going to apparently solve the problem, rather than more money going into peoples pockets, let's just tax the crap out of everyone, regardless of how much they make. More Government, the better. I love donating my hard earned money to them.

I don't know. I'm an idiot because I don't know what you make. I know you enjoy talking about taxing people though.

yes spark, I believe in paying my fare share. Don't you?

Zoom - Idiot? Wow. Resorting to name calling. Well then, apparently you like it when other people spend your money. Not too bright.

Zoom - Easy to spend others money isn't it?

OK

Zoom, again, anytime you want to donate more of your income step up to the plate. If it's just a measly 3% donate yours plus all the nasty bush tax cuts you have benefited from since inception.

Most likely the left leaning folks that are more than willing to have others income taken will never offer any of their own unless made to by law first. Hypocrite def: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.

If I currently pay at the 36% tax rate and that goes up to 42% (which it does if you include the increased Medicare taxes under ObamaCare and phase-outs, not to mention higher taxes in tax hells like Wisconsin), that is a 6/36 = 16.7% tax hike.

Another way to look at it: in absolute terms, that's hundreds of billions of dollars taken from the most productive sector of the economy and thrown into the least productive sector - government. Not a great way to manage your portfolio.

Now in the eggheaded counter-reality world of academia and Democrats, decreasing the return on risky investments (e.g. new businesses) does not reduce the amount of investments actually made.

In reality, however, lower after-tax returns actually do decrease investments, so you get what you have here: the government spending trillions with no net new jobs to show for it. And that presumes the Democrats will be happy with just one huge tax increase, which of course they won't be.

That's a major reason why businesses aren't investing - there's no certainty. How much will the government take from you 3 years from now? How many fines will they levy on you if you hire more people (all in the name of the common good and health care reform, of course). How much will my dollar be worth 5 years from now after the government monetizes the crushing debt it plans to run up endlessly?

Well, nobody quite knows because Obama himself doesn't really know, and his economic advisors have repeatedly proven they're a bunch of idiots. It's all by the seat of his pants. As they say in the markets, you can price for risk, but you can't price for uncertainty.

And what you see today in the financial and job markets boys and girls are eggheaded policies being torched quickly in the real world.

Zoom, How about a 3% cut in spending instead? Like ezoner said, gov't needs to do exactly what every hard working American taxpayer does. LIVE WITHIN THEIR MEANS.

"The economy is so fragile that it needs another stimulus but strong enough to withstand a huge tax increase on the most profitable small businesses that employ the most people."

A 3% tax increase on income (or profit, in the case of a small business) OVER $250K is not a "huge tax increase". If that small business made a $1,000,000 profit, their additional tax burden would be $22,500. A $500,000 profit? $7,500 additional tax. The impact of the 3% marginal tax increase is overblown by the right.

I know this comment is a little off the beaten path when it comes to talking about the economy, but with all the partisan comments I think that my point needs to be made.
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Most of the strain on the economy right now isn't coming from public policy, but from the public itself. We live in a country that has a population of 300 million with a workforce that is 150 million. To put this in perspective, in 1950, the US had a population of 150 million. Granted, are economy has expanded to accommodate this growth. Yet, we can't expect our population to grow without consequences.
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Fortunately, since the baby boom, each new generation has remained comparably sized to the one before it. This means that our population is growing, but no longer exponentially. It is growing because people are living longer.
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So, what I suggest is that perhaps instead of just talking about what needs to be done in Congress to fix the situation, we should address what society can do to help it. I know that because of the strong work ethic that is held by most Americans, the elderly continue to put off retirement. Yet, if they were to shift gears and try to enjoy the rest of their lives in retirement, the employment issue would begin to ease.
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This country needs to start getting this message across instead of all the political bickering. America owes a great deal of gratitude to the generations of people who have worked so hard to make this country great. Yet, those generations, with decades of hard work have never been shown how to get out of the game.

Hey -- maybe the government should do what the rest of us do. We look at what we make, we look at what we can afford, necessities, etc.. Once debt and all is over we try to save a little while paying off the debt and interest.

If we cant afford it, we either wait until we can, eliminate another expenditure, get another job, or move forward without it. Cant congress understand that simple concept the all the rest of us live by.

Oh wait -- I have millionaires making the laws, telling why what they are proposing will benefit me, and in this altruistic environment, I believe them.

NOT.

No Left Fist--

So what you are advocating is to provide a BAD, or Mismanaged, or business in a bad markets, with Money from the successful, well run, good markets.... Huh... wouldnt you just let the market fix that problem.

Ohhh thats right, Obama-hood has his trusty arrow and axes to fix that with his merry congress.

why do you keep saying that?? the statement alone is hypocritical. legalizing pot allows citizens the choice and equals less govt. banning kids meals is eliminating choice and an example of govt intrusion.

916wi....DO YOU SEE WHY I USE THE TERM HYPOCRITE SO FREELY???????

The same people who want to legalize pot want to ban kids' meals.

as for the obamacare vs the drug war, ill concede that not all who oppose or support are hypocrites and i probably use the term a bit to freely. they just dont know. if they knew they may change their opinion, but whether you want to acknowledge it or not, its the same argument. big govt?? check. wasteful spending?? check. individual libertys stepped on?? check.

its ok that you dont get that. everyone has their own perspective. from my perspective the fact that the plant was legal FOREVER and consumed even by presidents who claim "Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner"(abe lincoln) is more than relative to the discussion. pot is illegal. we all know that. MOST people dont know why pot is illegal, they just know that it is. to understand why pot is illegal you have to know the history of it. not just the history of it since 1937. your perspective: kid blows smoke and grasps at straws to rationalize his argument. my perspective: uncle sam treats tax paying, adult american citizens as LESS than citizens for doing something people have done...forever.

Someone that is friends with the administration didn't get their part of the last stimulus, so Obama must owe somebody. He needs another 50 billion to pay that somebody off. If these crooks really wanted a stimulus to work, they would have given the money right back to the taxpayers in the form of a CHECK made to each and every taxpayer for an equal amount. This would have stimulated the economy perfectly. But then those same politicians that agreed to the stimulus would not be able to control where the money went. Funny how that worked, isn't it. Just take a look at how much they are currently spending on campaigns. Not one incumbent seems to be trying to save any money when it comes to their campaigns. If you want to put us 50 billion more into debt, give me my share of that 50 billion and I will go spend it how I choose.

Kid3477--In a certain context, history is absolutely a logical platform for discussion. Saying that we should pass legislation to legalize drug use because Ben Franklin lit up a bowl in the 1700's--not the right context:)
Actually your reading comprehension needs some work--I'm not busting your chops over your beliefs--I'm busting your chops over your justifications of your beliefs.....big difference--read my posts again to see if that makes things clearer.
Your labeling of people as "hypocrites" because they support the failed billion dollar "war on drugs" and then oppose the trillion dollar, "failure in waiting" known as Obamacare makes little sense. Like I have said time and time again, I could care less if pot was legalized, but if someone is passionate in rallying against drug legalization, for whatever reason--maybe they lost a child to addiction--whatever, regardless of whether or not the government failed at controlling it--what does that have to do at all with a failed government entitlement program? Aside from the fact they they cost taxpayers a serious amount of money while showing little return. You're looking at it purely from a cost perspective. Because drug control is not financially viable do you expect these people to say "ok, because it cost to much to control, let's make pot legal and available to everyone"? You call them hypocrites when they just seem to be sticking to their convictions.....I don't get that....

The economy is so fragile that it needs another stimulus but strong enough to withstand a huge tax increase on the most profitable small businesses that employ the most people.

Got it.

"Fine, Bunbun. Move there"
Don't speak ill of our glorious new leaders capitalist running dog. The Soviets had it wrong..we did not sell them the rope to hang us, we bought it on sale from China through Harbor Freight.

What congress should do, and the left should demand of their own side, is an actual federal budget this year to include a vote. The action taken by this congress to "deem" the budget passed displays their inability to lead and their wanting to win elections more than do their job.

Government spending, deficits, and debt are at record levels and the best they can do is deem a budget...

Voters need to be aware of the ineffective management provided by those they hire to represent them in congress, senate, and the white house.

The original bill was NOT a "stimulus" bill, it was pork. And predictably, it did NOTHING to stimulate the economy. Zero jobs, although the fiction of "jobs created or saved" is repeated endlessly. Should be "jobs prevented or destroyed". The Obamamites are following the same path as FDR did. FDR extended the Depression by wasting money on anything and everything. Why do some ignore history (rhetorical question, the answer is blindingly obvious).
BTW - some used to complain about the "unfunded Bush wars". The truth is, the mis-named "stimulus" cost more than ALL of the years of the Iraq War. But none of the Obamamites complain about that. Strange.

'So any individual liberties(notice--not spelled liberty's:)) should be suspended if there is a risk or victim involved?'

no. i never said that. you were the one that referenced the 'libertys' that could have victims, and i never said those 'libertys' should be denied. i was merely pointing out the difference between your potential victim 'libertys' and my no potential victim liberty being infringed on, and pointing out why uncle sam regulates yours. uncle sam limits your 100mph desire and your over .08 driving in the name of public safety. keep in mind you can do those in certain places...

you think its funny that i reference history?? isnt that a pretty logical platform to discuss things?? i think its funny that you go right to slavery being ok at the time so we should make pot ok again. juvenile thought process at best, but i understand how people discuss things when they have no logic on their side. alcohol prohibition failed miserably, why would marijuana prohibition be successful??

'You rant and whine about people only acting out in support of liberties that directly affect them--calling them hypocrites--when you have obviously made your support known for the one "individual liberty" that affects you personally. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black--huh?'

no.i dont rant and whine about people not being on my team. i rant and whine when they are against me yet they rant and whine about things like obamacare and stimulus spending. if those are wastes of taxpayer dollars wouldnt you agree that a multi-billion dollar FAILED war on drugs is as much of a waste?? have you ever seen me rant/whine AGAINST an individuals libertys?? that would be hypocritical and pot/kettle material. i dont do that. never have. i agree that .08 is a joke. i think .1 is a joke cuz .1 to you is not the same as .1 to someone else but uncle sam needs to set limits, and at least he regulates that. i also think its silly that americans in some states cant conceal/carry. i could give other details about my not caring(i dont waste my time supporting those issues) about individual libertys that others lose, but i dont rally against them either.

'but to call me a hypocrite because I find some of your justifications laughable or or because I wouldn't waste my time marching at a "pro pot" rally......Seriously--get a life!'

your reading comprehension should get some work. im not calling you a hypocrite becaue you laugh at my justifications or you wont march at a pot rally. not at all. i dont mind when people disagree with me. im calling you a hypocrite cuz you are busting my chops about my beliefs but if alcohol was suddenly illegal you would do. the. exact. same. thing.

of course you are completely against alcohol prohibiton. why??

Yeah Kid3477--The one where you used the old "Well, it was ok when everyone did it back in the 1700's, so it should be ok now" argument:) Have to admit, I did get a laugh out of that one......Of course I would be against prohibition of alcohol--I am COMPLETELY against the enforcement .08 DUI laws....So any individual liberties(notice--not spelled liberty's:)) should be suspended if there is a risk or victim involved? Seriously? Who decides who/what qualifies as a victim or a risk? You rant and whine about people only acting out in support of liberties that directly affect them--calling them hypocrites--when you have obviously made your support known for the one "individual liberty" that affects you personally. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black--huh? I told you straight up, that I could care less whether they legalize pot or not. It's not an issue of mine as I have much better ways to spend my money--but to call me a hypocrite because I find some of your justifications laughable or or because I wouldn't waste my time marching at a "pro pot" rally......Seriously--get a life!

im glad to see your ok 916. like most right wing hypocrites you left our last convo open ended. ya know, the one where you listed all the potential 'libertys' you were missing out on?? the one where you failed to see the potential victims in the analogies you made. the one where you asked if i wanted a return to slavery since i also wanted legal pot. the one where i pointed out your blatant arrogance. anyways...glad your ok. btw...if uncle sam said you couldnt drink alcohol any time would that encroach on your libertys or no??

It's almost comical.....Obama comes out and basically admits the $862 billion didn't work, then says we need to pass another stimulus for $50 billion for infrastructure improvements that were supposed to be funded with the first $862 billion.......and then tunrs around and blames Republicans for everything:) It's not "almost comical" it's totally comical:)

I would agree with one comment. Congress should pass A plan. Just not a stimulus plan. One that permanently lowers taxes. One that stabilizes and removes all doubt regarding future taxation and potential rule changes. It is time to get some people that understand how to manage a business and real leaders in-house.

To all of you who feel that 18 months was enough time to change things, I will be coming back to see where we are 18 months from November when the Republicans finally have it their way. Let's see if anything changes. I will be watching.....

They promised results that didn't happen in many ways and now they want to try the same thing? If things were better, there wouldn't be talk about another stimulus. Point is, something else needs to occur if things are going to turn around.

'and democrats have successfully promised false hope'

hope is an intangible object. they cant/didnt promise hope, let alone false hope;) they promised results that may have not met their, or yours, expectations but they offered hope to lots...they didnt promise it;)

noleftist...you bash 'leftys' for wanting legal marijuana even tho the end of marijuana prohibition knows no party lines...yet you say '$800 billion in more debt for our children didn't do it, but another $50 billion will. How stupid do you have to be?'

to that sir...i will say i guess as stupid as anyone who blindly supports a big govt, federally controlled billion dollar FAILED war on drugs. hypocrite.

"There few if any economists that would agree?"
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There are actually plenty of economists that agree it didn't work. Many that agree it did work too.

$800 billion in more debt for our children didn't do it, but another $50 billion will. How stupid do you have to be?

Japan cut back on government spending too fast. Really? Their debt-to-GDP ratio is 100% - effectively past the point of no return because they spent too much!

The only difference is they basically owe the money to themselves, whereas we owe the money to the Chinese.

Japan is a perfect example of how NOT to recover.

You need to stop drinking the Paul Krugman Kool-Aid!

kid - and democrats have successfully promised false hope. So what is your point? Regardless of party sides, spend, spend spend, isn't working. I'm all for a boost for everyone, but I believe something different needs to be tried. Not exactly sure what the answer is.

yeah werpknarly...your half full outlook has no place here. doom and gloom is the specialty of the house here...

'Republicans have successfully promoted the idea that we already tried a stimulus and it didn’t help. There are few, if any, economists who would agree'

he obviously didnt ask the economists that like to post on this website and besides what does an economist know about the economy anyways.

werpknarly - better now? That is down right comical. The stimulus bill was designed to also create new jobs, not just keep current ones. It failed.

the original stimulus? we were losing 750,000 jobs a month.. are we better now? YES. should we spend more? look to japan, 20 some years of no growth or deflation after their recession, why? they pulled back on goverment spending to fast. YES we should wisly spend more. does the world largest economy turn around on a dime? NO.. it take time, years, we were dropping like a rock (750K jobs lost per month). now we are at or just past the braking point of turning around. to shut off washington money now shut the turnaround down AND this stimulus is paid for with money from oil company tax breaks (remember record profits?)

Another stimulus is crazy and not the answer. The first one didn't work.

More stimulus is needed; the author has it right. But go ahead, keep spreading the unwarranted fear. "People will be dying all over the place"...really??

Retired Airforce soldier has it right: They have no idea what they are doing! Time for a dose of honesty.

Wait for the new healthcare plan to take affect. People will be dying all over the place from a lack of services, physiciansm nurses and facilities.

I, for one, welcome our new Chineese overlords.

They still don't get it and some never will. No more spending. We need tax cuts.

Not NO but H**L NO!

"The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that between 1.4 million and 3.3 million more people were employed by mid-2010 because of the stimulus"
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Yet the predicted figures of employment and the actual numbers of unemployed show a complete opposite picture.

Predicted 3,675,000 gain in employment
Actual -2,629,700 loss in employment

Their figures are only off by 6,300,000, but they want to claim employment increased because of it?

Time for a dose of honesty in all these predictions and numbers from the current admin. Either they made things worse with their spending or they have no idea what they are doing. Their own numbers prove their theories are wrong and their conclusions false.