these home burglaries are crazy. Investing in a home security system would be the rise choice to make. Better protect yourself and property.

Like I said, every situation is different. That's the problem. All's I can say is this. If you are 16 and brave and dumb enough to intrude into someone else's home, you should be prepared that you're putting yourself in danger and could suffer serious consequences. Both by the law and whoever you cross paths with before they arrive.

'I would be quite confident that you would not find a jury consisting of 12 people who felt sorry for the poor, misunderstood career criminal who got shot attempting to rob yet another victim.......'

would you be as confident if it was a 16 year old friend of your childs who stole a cell phone, camera, keys, and a piece of jewelry??

Every situation is different. I remember this one well. This is how the system should work.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/mar/06/...

Mudsill I'm not saying its right. If I were on a jury I would have a hard time holding a home owner liable in that circumstance but I have read where it went badly for them.

My guess is "great fear of harm or death" will have a very specific definition that you will have to prove. My guess is once you have pulled the trigger "defending" the burden of proof lands on you to prove "great fear of harm or death." In other words better make D%$M sure he was going to do you or your family harm.

If you want to read a well-written legal perspective of WI law by a criminal defense attorney with a real-world perspective-

May I suggest this little ditty from Chris T. Van Wagner on http://wisconsincriminallaw.blogspot.com... ..... click on "self defense" in the R hand column.

For those who don't want to click, some snippets:Yes, you can shoot someone who breaks in the house in the middle of the night... IF - and this is a big IF - you reasonably fear death or great harm to you or your loved ones.

No, you cannot shoot the "sumbitch" just because he's trying to get in - or out - of your living room or den with the family stereo. Nor can you do so because he won't "git out da yard!"

But in the latter case, if he makes a move that puts you in great fear of harm or death, or maybe flashes something akin to a deadly weapon or comes at you, you are within your rights to shoot.

So get a 45 magnum? That's a personal choice. Keep in mind that the right to shoot someone and the nerve to shoot someone are two different things - and this isn't deer-hunting, either. So, before you go and stick your friend's Smith & Wesson under the pillow or atop the nightstand, ask yourself: would you? Could you? Because if you are unsure, there is a better than even chance that the only time that 6-shooter will get fired is AT YOU - by the far more criminal-thinking intruder (guns are the most popular item taken in break-in's) or - worse - by a kid who finds it and plays around with it, like kids often do.

My two cents: Consider a loud, large, barking dog. Burglars hate 'em. Leave the Dirty Harry stuff for those who are well-experienced with guns and shooting them. Or become that person yourself. And if you do, keep the guns away from those who don't. Like your kids.

Completely understand where he's at--I would put myself in that person's position--to have a criminal in my house, in the dark, attempting to steal my possessions and God only knows what else--I would absolutely not hold them accountable regardless of where they shot the intruder. The criminal forced that situation on the homeowner--they are the ones who are responsible for putting themselves there. I would be quite confident that you would not find a jury consisting of 12 people who felt sorry for the poor, misunderstood career criminal who got shot attempting to rob yet another victim.......

I do not have a citation but have seen property owners in botched robberies shoot perps while they were obviously trying to flee. It did not go well for the property owners. I wish I had a link to the story but I don't.

shoot somebody in the back and you think he'd get off?? hard pressed to find 12 people?? ha. you understand which direction the perp is headed in if you...shoot...him...in...the...back??

jv--you would be in trouble, but chances are very good you would get off. People are fed up with these criminals getting a slap on the wrist, getting out of jail, where we spend $30K+ a year housing, feeding and providing them with free cable and them having them do it again. If I was on that jury I would NEVER convict a homeowner of emptying his/her weapon into someone who had invaded their home--regardless of where on their body they were shot. I think that you would be hard pressed to find 12 people in this country that would. The homeowner would deserve our gratitude, not our condemnation......

i hope one of your grandkids never gets caught up in the wrong group and decides to break into someones home. trespassing and robbery do not warrant death.

This is a case of "me vs. you"... So we should ask the perp if he wants to kill us or just take our TV? Uh, no...

So if I just shoot both elbows and knees, that's OK? Whatever, this is my domain, I pay taxes, we are "pleasantly employed" and my stuff is MY STUFF!

As far as the police are concerned, "when I call them, after shooting both elbows and knees", they will hear my sobbing story about how he tried to choke, maim, murder me! I'm the victim - he's the punk. MY word against his!

My point is that if somebody is breaking into my home I am not going to take time to ascertain their motives. Being in that space at the wrong time implies intent to do harm. You can take issue with that but I think most folks would agree. Now as bella and kid mention, if you shoot somebody in the back as they are walking out with your TV, you are probably in trouble.

My other post was removed. I guess being the victim of the break-in, I don't have a say. Whatever. I am just glad this kid didn't have a gun. What do you think would have happened to Joe if he actually hit this punk? How much do you want to make a bet he would have gone to jail for battery?
By the way, my daughter met this guy in the soft side of juvenile detention that is COED!!

i have no problem with you causing bodily harm to anyone if there is a chance of you or your family being harmed. i do have a problem with ANYONE opening fire simply cuz their house is being broken into. im w bella...your material possesions are a)replaceable and 2)contrary to popular belief not status symbols. take your gun, hide in the room WITH your kids, and call the cops.

whatever chance the intruder is there to do harm...there is an equal chance you will miss and he wont. now your kids are fatherless.

Bella, people deserve their just rewards for destroying the sanctity of another's home.
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ie Castle doctrine.
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Now back to your regular episode of peoples court starring the next star pacifist witness.

If someone breaks into your home, use your weapon if they ATTACK you personally, or your family members. If they are holding your TV and making their way through the door, they are NOT a threat to your life, and you cannot shoot to kill. Do you really believe that someone should lose their life over your stupid material possessions?? That's why you have insurance. That's why we have a legal system. Material possessions can be replaced. Use your gun for what it intended for - protect yourself if your life is at risk. Not your TV.

So when it comes to my children sleeping in the next room I should feel reassured that "a LARGE majority of intruders are looking for a quick smash and grab." Not going to happen. So I have a choice of two news stories for you. "Family of Five Killed in Botched Robbery" or "16 Year old Dead After Attempted Robbery". Sorry I will be glad to read about a dead 16 year old.

i would guess that a LARGE majority of intruders are looking for a quick smash and grab. they arent the cat burglars bypassing your alarm codes and security lasers. they arent there to cause you physical harm. they are unethical and immoral...but they DO NOT deserve death by bullet. use the gun if you or your family are being attacked but not just if your home is being broken in to. what if joe volk thought that violation of his home warranted death by fire arm?? this would be a story about a dead 16 year old.

facts - I guess I do, however, the imaginative picture in my mind is quite the sight!
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Go get'em, Pugs!!

bella - By the way, I've been burglarized. Speak for yourself.

bella and hongkongexpat - Who said anything about not needing the police? They will still be called. If you catch someone, do you think the police are going to be having a sleep over in you house waiting? And why is someone crazy for protecting their home and family?

hongkongexpat - haha, I was thinking the same thing! I feel pretty confident that most of these posters who think they don't need the police will think differently after being burglarized.

The phony tough and the crazy brave are alive and well in this blog.

If I were someone thinking about breaking into someones house I would read these posts and think twice. People have a right to protect their property and family. Don't make us use that right and all will be fine. For those of you who cannot read find a friend or parent to do it for you. Since we are not allowed to put pictures here for you.

Swisschick I guess you have to see the Pug to really get a good picture :)

I welcome your courage because you won't be leaving with it.

+1 to garyprimer. Says it nicely.

Please don't make me get blood all over my nice new carpet.

I think I would sit down with the burglar and have a cup of coffee to discuss how he really is misunderstood and had a difficult life. (sarcasm)

I'm with many of you. As far as I'm concerned, the burglar is offering no consideration toward me so likewise in return I will show no consideration toward them.

dont come to my home. I have 2 large dogs waiting, weighing in at 100 lbs and about 180...good luck to you. If thats not enough to discourage you then I have something else to use. Dont worry I will put the call in for the ambulance, if you are lucky enough to still need them. People need to think twice. To many people think there lives are worse off then others since the downturn of the economy and we all are just trying to hold on to what we have left and survive while doing it.

You have to protect yourself you cannot depend on the police.

facts & Irish - Thanks for the lasting video clips in my head! :)
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I have one of those big MagLites too. They can absolutely cause some real damage. And still work.

Situations like these are exactly why our forefathers were such strong advocates of gun ownership in this country. Simply put--stop making it easy for criminals and just shoot them:) Save the court systems, taxpayers and future victims time, expense and trauma.....

Hopefully the parents will pull their heads out and stop the kids behavior NOW.

3AM??? Hey parents...what's your kids doing out at 3am? It definitely isn't piano lessons.

"If you find someone in your home, quietly call 911 and lock yourself behind a door, he said."

If you are the only one at home, and have a nice sturdy door, fine. If you have kids in the other bedrooms though, that won't fly. Molesting and kidnapping are very real possibilities. Just like you need well thought-out plan for dealing with home fires, you also need a plan to deal with nighttime break-ins. Something very sudden, very fast, very violent. I would recommend against a handgun option, because you're liable to hit your kids or a sleeping neighbour. You will probably never need to use your plan, but 2 a.m. is the wrong time to try making one up.

"Be a good witness" my rosy Irish hind end. Nobody steals from me and nobody breaks into my house without facing the consequences. Woe betide you if you break into my place. That's all I'll say. The only thing you'll come away with from trying to steal from me is a burglary charge, some temporary blindness from my pepper spray and a noticeable limp from getting hobbled the handle of my 6 D-cell MagLite.

Homeowners should put the smackdown via method of choice on these punks and save the next 10 potential victims from the home invasion, the feeling of loss of personal security, and potential injury, even loss of life.

My big doggie will hold them....I hope they do come in I will introduce them to my 128lb German Shepherd, who is pissy all the time....LOL

I think I would be inclined to knock the guy out. Need proof. He is laying on the floor.
AND DON'T try to sue me like the idiot related to KAB! Yes fact is he is an idiot.

I guess I should be careful the post police are out today. If someone breaks in my house I will call 911. They in turn can call the coroner cause thats what happens when you steal from me. Of course there is the killer Pug you have to get past first. And after he is done you will be begging for me to shoot you.He may not be big but he can jump about waist high. So you guess what he is going to grab hold of and think is his kong toy.

It is an awful feeling that hits right at the gut, after having your home invaded. Trying to feel safe in your own home, after a robbery, takes a lot of work.

The mental and emotional struggles, as far as I'm concerned, should net a heftier penalty.

I would hope homeowners are validated by defending their family and possessions with whatever "methods" they have at their disposal.

As far as the punks pulling these robberies, lock em up and throw away the key!