cookiedough
Mar 25, 2010 at 6:31 p.m.
Suggest removal Wow, expelled from school for being a 'lookout' for the kids actually fighting.
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although the district never gives full details of expulsion incidents.
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Add the two up and then think about why this could happen.

"In Janesville, the typical kid claiming gang affiliation is just as likely to be white as black or hispanic. (based on my experience over the past 5 years in Janesville working with kids)"

I agree. I have seen many more white students/teenagers start associating themselves with some of the more prominent latino/balck gangs. From hearing some of these white kids speak, it's hard to tell that they grew up white. Nothing wrong with that. I am just saying that many more white kids are hanging out with latino/black students.

Thanks whythink, for all the info whythink about Janesville's alternative schools.

I think many people are very quick to dump some of these trouble making kids and forget about them. However, a lot of why they are the way they are is due to irresponsible and negelectful parents. Consequently, when they attend schol they wreak havoc on themselves and everyone else.

Yes, there are exceptions when more affluent well to do families have some of these kids that join gangs. I think it has to do with parents not being "there or spending time" for their kids.

Napalm, I agree that kids are bored but we as parents have to initiate positive activities. I recongnize that shows like "JackAss" (although funny) probably don't set a very good example. If kids today are not burning, breaking, hurting, throwing, kicking, slamming, exploding,destroying,and crashing something (or someone) IT IS NOT FUN MOM OR DAD!

What happened to doing things that are good and decent these days? It seems that doing good things is the bad thing to do.

Society is way too adulterated today. If you look at prime time t.v., they are showing more violence and adult situations at 7 p.m. at night. Look at the Internet. Enough said about that.

newintown30
Mar 25, 2010 at 3:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
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I specifically said KID IN JANESVILLE claiming gang affiliation.
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In addition, I made the assumption of "street gangs" not motorcycle gangs.
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You are correct, gang affiliation if you take the broad definition of gang is just as much a white issue as a black or brown issue.
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Referring to this article and the gangs in the JSD, and those kids claiming gang affiliation...I stand by my previous conclusion...based on my experiences.

Wow, expelled from school for being a 'lookout' for the kids actually fighting. Times must be tough and sure have changed in the past 20 years. I remember beating up a bully in school since he started it and I finished it for him big time and all I got was a detention. My Dad always said if he starts it, you finish it and do not ever start a fight, but always finish it. Gangs and bullies do not need to be in school and since their parents are not taking care of the situation, someone needs to put them pansies in their place. Bullies in gangs are just wimps who cannot fight one on one without help from his other slugs. Never been afraid of a one on one confrontation no matter how big or supposedly tough and never will.

I agrre that race should never be an issue, but the sad facts that the are, in the last 20 years or so, look at what has happened to the 4th ward, these are all people who came up from Rockford, Chicago, and so forth, and they have kept that agenda with them, and surprise they are mostly people of color, hell we are having the same problem here in Madison, just try to go drive down Allied drive on the South side, or Hamersley on the West side. It is so sad that not to long ago it was Black History month, and a lot of these people have forgotten, what others before them have gone through, I am no way near a racist, but the facts are the facts......SO SAD

Well - if we legalize drugs then what will the gangs have left to do? (Yeah -I know....wrong thread....)

you have got to be kidding me!!!! ever heard of Hells Angels???...GANG...it is even on the show "Gangland" on the history chanel...ever heard of the KKK...GANG! the latest newspaper article i read about was a GANG of caucasian students that hate minorities in the Monona Grove school district...that is their "gang related issue"...a bunch of white kids...not "latinos or blacks" as was stated in a previous post...this drives me crazy, and i'm white...i can't imagine if i were a minority and had read these ignorant posts...people who have these views are either like 500 years old or had parents that taught them values that were 500 years old.......it's 2010...let the race issues go already!

napalm,
That is a poor excuse.
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I ask young people all the time, if you can't have a party with 15-30 of your friends and NOT have a good time without a mind altering / personality altering drug (weed or alcohol) than WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOUR PERSONALITY AND THE PERSONALITY OF YOUR FRIENDS?
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Kids aren't, and this isn't a new problem, willing to put the time or effort into activities that don't involve illegal activities.
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In my hometown, they tried a teen dance club. It was seen as boring and eventually became a hang-out for dealers and users. Communities have tried but it isn't "fun" unless someone is doing something stupid because they are on something.

IMO race doesn't matter.
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I will comment just to help answer the question. It really depends on the gang...
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In Janesville, the typical kid claiming gang affiliation is just as likely to be white as black or hispanic. (based on my experience over the past 5 years in Janesville working with kids)

vatoloco
Mar 25, 2010 at 10:32 a.m.
Suggest removal Anyone know what kind of alternative schooling there is in Janesville for at risk youth?
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www.janesville.k12.wi.us
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Front page, lower left, links to all of the charter schools (4) in the disrict.
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In addition, most of the middle and both high schools have alternative programs on-site.
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TATE, or truancy abatement...center is an off-site program that deal specifically with expelled student. In addition, the TATE Center works with students transitioning from corrections or student out of school suspended and on probation. 6-12th grades for 1 semester. Lastly, some of the pre-expelled students are placed at TATE.
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All of these programs are very valuable to these students. Janesville is very fortunate to have a board and administration willing to make the investment in these programs.
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I just hope that despite the tough economic times the board doesn't lose site of the importance of programs like TATE. Having those students roaming the streets and falling farther behind is NOT a good idea.

jerry1955 might have a point.

The majority of gang members are latino/hispanic and black.

According this website:
http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey...

46% are latino and 38% black in larger cities

It breaks it down even further.

jterry1955 -- shame on you! what does that have to do with anything at all???!?! maybe you need to read other area papers...many have "gang related activities" within their school districts. the race of these "gangs" shouldn't matter. The Dane County Sheriff's Office defines gangs as groups of three or more people with a common identifying sign, symbol or name, the members of which engage in criminal activity...nowhere in that definition does it also say "must be a member of ____ race." obviously the fact that schools have to deal with gang related issues is not good at all, but it also isn't good at all that certain people think that only certain races can be in gangs in the first place. sad!

This isn't a "school" issue; this is a community issue. Poor, misguided parenting creates a home situation for out-of-control behavior, which carries over into the schools. The public school for most kids is the most structure they will ever experience. Is anyone surprised that this type of behavior is prevalent in schools? Schools are a microcosm of our communities, and we see this type of gang behavior and thug activity in every large town/city in our country.
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To blame public schools, to praise private schools thinking they are immune to this type of behavior, is erroneous thinking. To compare a "union" to a "gang" is pure ignorance and stupidity. Furthermore, if you think the color of someone's skin determines this type of behavior, you're just as clueless as the person who suggested union behavior is similar to gang behavior.

Seriously Napalm.

bill-I agree 100%. I have a daughter in an elementary school and I worry about her going to the middle and high schools. No school is 100% safe. When we go out to shop, eat, etc we are not 100% safe either but we do it. Awareness is key. We must tell our kids to learn to elude trouble makers and hang out with the good kids. If those gang punks intimidate them they have to let people know and hopefully someone can handle htese issues. I know it is easier said than done we must not be afraid of these thugs.

Not all students can be saved but we need work with the ones who might show some potential to succeed.

I understand what you are saying bill about removing these kids. Where do you send them though? Jail? It is already overcrowded.

"removing the few who aren't there for an education via expulsion is one of the wisest things we can do."

It is a tough issue bill. How do we combat students who show up and do not do the work but are harmless? I agree that the violent ones should be removed for safety reasons.

With some of these troubled students we waste alot of resources. This includes wating capital on trying to educate them and wasting criminal justice resources to support them in jail.

OK, so the school board and many others don't want to "give up" on these types of difficult students so they want to cut down on expulsions and offer ways to return to school for the expelled. That's all very laudable, but what about the average student. You know, the ones who are afraid of gang members and the beat downs they dispense, the ones who are going to school to receive an education and are intimidated and coerced by those gang member "students"? Rather than focus attention and expensive resources on those who go to school for the opportunity to make trouble and bring misery on classmates for their personal satisfaction, why don't we instead just remove these gang members and other such delinquents from the schools so that real education can commence for the benefit of those who want to be educated? The fact is that to improve the quality of education for all students in the public schools, removing the few who aren't there for an education via expulsion is one of the wisest things we can do. If you leave a shark in a fish tank, can you really expect them not to eat the fish? Let's remove the sharks from our schools so that learning can proceed unimpeded by these thugs in training.

Who cares? What difference does that make?

And this is why I took my child out of public schools...not only do the kids not know how to behave, but the parents didn't teach them very well and the teachers don't seem to handle the punishment that fits the crime. And people wonder why our society is going down the toilet? lol, to think, these brats are going to be adults some day scares the crap out of me.

I agree with TheKid. It's kind of bizarre and, I would add, unAmerican to require a child to take medication in order to complete his education. When one considers all of these cases, there's one consistency: the government asserts and extends its power over the individual. It does this by prosecuting the war on drugs, and it does this by requiring that this child be medicated and be subjected to monitoring. We're supposed to have the right in the United States to be let alone. . . .

I am just wondering, what is their nationality, or the color of their skin

Anyone know what kind of alternative schooling there is in Janesville for at risk youth?

While I do condone gang activity and violent behavior, throwing/expelling students out of school and not giving them an alternative will only make these studenst worse. Granted, there are students who might not be salvageable but we cannot give up on them. I am not one to be in 100% agreement that students need an "iron hand" approach. Some students need this approach but not all. I blame a lot of the problems on parents (irresponsibility) and not on the school district. Many of these kids live with grandma or an uncle or aunt because mom and dad are in jail or doing drugs/abusing alcohol. Consequently, school districts have to deal with these kids and in the process disrupt the entire educational process.

This Three Days Grace (rock band) song sums it up best,

Every street in this city
Is the same to me
Everyone's got a place to be
But there's no room for me
Am I to blame?
When the guilt and the shame hang over me
Like a dark cloud,
That chases you down in the pouring rain.

Why is it so hard to find someone
Who cares about you?
When it's easy enough to find someone
Who looks down on you

It's not what it seems
When you're not on the scene
There's a chill in the air
But there's people like me
That nobody sees so nobody cares

Why is it so hard to find someone
Who cares about you?
When it's easy enough to find someone
Who looks down on you
Why is it so hard to find someone
Who can keep it together
When you've come undone?
Why is it so hard to find someone
Who cares about you?

I swear this time it won't turn out
The same 'cause now I've got myself to blame
And you'll know where we'll end up
On the streets that is easy enough
To find someone who looks down on you

Why is it so hard to find someone
Who cares about you?
When it's easy enough to find someone
Who looks down on you
Why is it so hard to find someone
Who can keep it together
When you've come undone?
Why is it so hard to find someone
Who cares about you?

by no means do i condone a minor using marijuana, or any drug for that matter...but i think its hilarious(in a make me throw up kind of way) that once again kicked out for drugs and then required to take drugs...only man made ones.

yup...good message team...could you confuse a kid any more??

Sarac53545, I think the reason for the disparity of treatment of those involved is because all academic/discipline history of each student is considered at the expulsion hearing. It's possible there was some something in that student's school discipline history that caused the more severe expulsion.

Seems like only yesterday the police Chief was assuring us, in spite of reports to the contrary, that there was no real gang activity in Janesville -- just some "wannabes."

I get your point, sarac53545, but I wouldn't describe a "lookout" as NOT being dangerous.

"although the district never gives full details of expulsion incidents."
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Trust me, if you knew the entire circumstances surrounding that you MIGHT think differently.
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I think its quite funny that the kid being the lookout got expelled till their 21st birthday , and the other kid engaging in the fight only got expelled till 2010-11 school year . Isn't that a little weird ? And the person that got expelled for having a knife only got expelled through 2010-11 school , hello they had a knife and it was in middle school . Wowwww . Maybe the superintendent should get the kids out of school that are dangerous rather then expel a student for being a lookout.