This from the organization run and supported by Charlie Sykes? Who can trust anything you people say? Like Walker, you are tools for a hostile takeover of the state of Wisconsin. Is this another plan to raid the pensions like he did when he demanded $28 million be taken from the pensions to pay his health care cronies? The sooner we get this crooked governor out of office and people like you can go to jail with him for deceiving the public with such fantasy, the better this state will be.

A study in February 2011 compares wages of public employees to those of private sector employees based on education level and job title in Wisconsin. You can find the study at the Economic Policy Institute's website at www.epi.org . The study concluded that private sector employees receive much better compensation than public sector employees.

Where is the outrage at all the administrators and manager public employees? They are the ones making "the big money" Do we really need 3 or 4 of them for a handful of "greedy,Don't work hard,lazy,union worker's? Ohhhh...that's right--most are Republicans supporting this crap. Time to clean the house--from the top down.

The Gov said he wont raise taxes to balance a budget. Well, he essentially is putting a tax on public employees for the rest of their careers, and generations to come, to fix a temporaray problem. He wants state workers to solve the whole state's problem. With out decent compensation, who would do many of these jobs? The pension and benefits are a deferred compensation for a job that no one one would do at that salary, with the qualifications needed.( Sorry Billy Bob, you cant do most of these jobs with C minus high school diploma)
Govenor Walker recently said he spoke with workers in the manufacturing industry who said they would love a set up like he is proposing. So...he is comparing teachers with masters degrees, people with engineering degrees, and other college educated or specially trained workers with folks that assemble stuff on a line? Lets get real, with his proposal, you will soon see a huge drop off in quality applicants. Everyone can then teach their own kids,clean their sewers, plow their street, build their roads, provide their own water, protect themselves, and generally run the communities they live in.

Had I seen this nightmaring coming years ago, I would have taken my hard earned, expensive college education and used to make tons more money in the private sector, instead of spending a career serving citizens that cant care for themselves, and complain about the cost having someone do it for them.

Look at what the Republican version of reform means: Redirect more wealth from the middle/lower class, to the already rich. For YEARS it's been 'lower taxes on businesses, and that will result in everything being better.' In the mid '40s, the average chief executive salary was about 40 times the average lowest paid employee of the same company. Today, it is over 300 times the lowest salaray.****But what is really infuriating is how willing the workers in this society are to jump into the race 'down the ladder of success.' Yeah, it sucks when you are the worker that gets screwed out of a pension, or fair wages, or health care. But why throw the other workers under the bus? Alan Greenspan once said, 'The best thing for an employer is an economy that is kept constantly on the edge, so everyone is more interested in avoiding making waves, and keeping their jobs to survive, rather than standing up for better wages/conditions.' (yes, I'm paraphrasing.) Congrats! We're there!

I find all this disgusting. I am self employed.

I am annoyed at everyone.

First, way too many of those in the private sector receive enormous compensation such as 401K contributions, pensions, health/ dental/eye/ife insurance, bonuses, stock options, car allowances, cell phones, laptops, and many other perks; plus paid vacation and holidays; plus paid sick days.

In the public sector we all know those poor people don't make the money they deserve because we taxpayers like to 'defer' their compensation for as long as we possibly can. I am shocked though at the amount of pension they earn when they retire. So let's better balance their active pay with their deferred pension pay.

As for the rest of us who get none of these perks or benefits in our lives - shame on all of you.

I think all or you should consider the real issue, entitlement programs and politicians trying to stay in power at any cost. We will never have balanced and fair accounting in either the private or public sectors until everyone does his or her share to stop this blatant thievery of America’s wealth.

If you think the government owes you a living – YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!
If you think corporate executives need golden parachutes – YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!
If you think you should not have to work hard to make a good living – YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!

No more sitting on you back side collecting government handouts. Want to bash the public sector now that the private sector has crashed, because of greed and thievery, well start reforming. We all agreed reform is needed in both the public and private sectors. Start by reforming government entitlement programs; you will get that huge decrease in state spending FAST. Make everyone ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. Stop blaming everyone else and start helping to turn this country back into the great nation she once was. Not some sick socialist government entity that steals your hard earned money and distributes it to the undeserving and lazy. Yes, everyone needs help at sometime or another, I am not disputing that, but no one should be living off the government without putting in the years of public service necessary to EARN their retirement.

No politician in his right mind will touch an entitlement program for fear of loosing his job. The only way things will change is when you stop fighting each other and realize you need to make a difference. We are all being taken to the cleaners, time to just say NO MORE.

realitybytes...I have a couple problems with your post. First, most teachers who make $60k+/year have been teaching for quite a while. Some districts don't even pay their senior teachers that much. Also, find me a teacher who only works 9 months a year. They teach 9 months a year, some even add summer school, so make that 10 months a year. During the summer, most teachers are going to school to earn pay increases (required for their jobs to have so many continuing education credits per a set time period) and preparing their classrooms and lessons for the next school year.
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Also, you talk about a 2% negotiated cost of living increase for gov. employees. That includes benefits. It's not just a straight 2% pay raise. And, 2% is not the yearly increase in cost of living. It's typically anywhere from 3%-4%. So, 2% is taking a loss when you factor in cost of living. And, in case you haven't been paying attention to the news, state employees are in the middle of a mandatory furlough period of 16 days over 2 years without pay. That amounts to about a 3% pay cut, while insurance premiums increased 10%. So, someone like me, at a lower ranking government job, just took a pay cut of about $1200/year and have to pay an extra $300/year in insurance premiums. Public sector employees are making sacrifices too, and I'm tired of hearing people try to spin it to look like the Private sector is the only group hurting. We all still have houses and cars and groceries. We all have to make cuts to make ends meet.

Public employees paid less than most in the private sector? Maybe five or ten years ago. People are so out of touch. Now, not only do public jobs make more, but their benefits are more than double similar positions in the private sector. Good luck finding a private sector job that has similar medical, vacation, PTO, and a pension that even remotely resembles the private sector. The only jobs that came close resided at GM, Ford, and Chrysler and we all know how that turned out.

The other thing being ignored here is that most public employees are paid less than many folks in the private sector, but sacrifice pay for benefits. So, this is just another way to tighten the other guy's belt to save some tax money because someone doesn't like their private pension system.

It would appear that most posters seem to have two very solid OPINIONS.
1. Public employees are underpaid
2. Private sector employees are overpaid

If the state union accepted ""lower"" wages to get higher retirement benefits then workers who punched the clock under these terms deserve to keep those benefits. Period.

However, how do you define ""lower"" wages? Are you working as a paper shuffler in a job that only requires a high school degree or GED? Is yours a 8 to 5 job that you can forget about when you punch out? Are you perhaps a teacher making $60k+/year for 9 months of work? As a state employee are you guaranteed some type of raise every year(if only a 2% CoL adjustment)? Are you an administrator making $150k+/year? I would argue that in many of these cases the wages are actually high for the work being performed. To expect a plush retirement on top of these wages is NOT reasonable when it comes at the expense of the taxpayer.

If you feel you deserve a better lifestyle then get a job that requires a 4 year degree (or more). Work in a "high paying" industry that may tell you you don't get a raise for years on end. Work somewhere that you are on call 24/7. Work somewhere that even though you are salaried at $50k/year you are expected to work 60+ hours a week. Stop whining about how much you all deserve the types of benefits that government employees get.

The entitlement mentality that many Americans have will ruin this country.

I haven't read the mentioned report, nor have I researched the WRS. I am basing this post solely on what is presented in this article.

Mr. Lightbourn says the governor should quit "allowing" the employer to pick up the employee's share of the retirement investment. What's next? Does he also think the governor should quit "allowing" the employer to provide vacation time? Does he think the governor should quite "allowing" the employer to pay a percentage of health insurance coverage?

When he talks of not "allowing" the employer to negotiate benefits, does that apply to all WRS-participating governmental units, such as cities, towns, school districts, colleges, and villages?

Is this rule something the governor controls? Is it not controlled by the legislature?

Of course, what this idiot NEVER discusses--like most who take his position--is that state workers over the years NEGOTIATED these benefits, usually at a cost of lower salary increases. That was the same thing that state employees did with health care. Years later, when it turns out that employees made good decisions, morons like this want to force change. Funny how people who 'have' always find arguments to take from the people who 'have not.' Go to hell, Mr. Lightbourn--and take your red-neck, conservative institute with you.

Worked 30 years as a cop in an area county. Several dangerous situations over the years, multiple very disturbing death scenes, lots and lots of being the target of not so nice name calling, and daily dealings with people most of the folks wouldn't want to associate with. Additionally, had to deal with bosses (just like private sector jobs) who were mainly interested in their own advancement. Socialized with non cop people - most friends not in law enforcement. Couldn't begin to tell you how many times they said they wouldn't (or couldn't) do my job. I'm not nosy but I would conservatively estimate that most of them were paid at least twice what I made as a cop. No need to envy them or whine about the money they made - they were doing their thing and I was doing mine. I'm retired now and living on the "generous" state employee pension. Guess what - I earned it and don't apologize for it. It gets a bit old hearing comments saying public employees should get into the private sector to see how the other half lives. They have a choice - get into the public sector if they think it's paradise. Live in a bubble and be held to the higher standard.

Being a retired municipal worker from IL., I like to follow situations such as this. The program I retired under is probably one the better managed retirement systems in the country. It is still rather expensive to the participants, both employees and employers.
Now down to the nitty-gritty, one of the biggest drains on all public retitement programs is the politicians who control them. I feel that they should not be allowed to participate in any public funded retirement program. This would fix two problems, one would be the high end drain on the fund, and the second, it would do away with most of the "Career Politicians."

Did ya ever think that the civil servant would be the envy of all the other workers out there? How many years I listened to my co-workers crowing about how much more we made than those idiots in government work. Now most of them are still unemployed and griping about the same people here.

We are becoming a nation/state in where the dream job upon graduating from school is to work for the governmnet! Excellent pay, endless benefits, and of course total job security! All is great until the private sector who supports all these employees goes bust! Oh wait, isn't that what is happening now? Nah; just keep bailing the states out when they go bankrupt...Everything will be good!

As I had asked before......I'm curious as to what dollar amount state employees consider a substandard wage?

Time to stop balancing the budget on the backs of state employees. How can they say that state employees pay nothing toward their pensions on one hand and then claim that taxpayers fund it on the other? State employees are also taxpayers. Last year not only did state employees pay taxes just like everyone else, but they also lost raises and were forced into unpaid furloughs so that all the rest of the taxpayers can benefit from the savings. Historically state employees accepted lower wages in exchange for better benefits. If the better benefits go away, then one day the wages for state employees will have to increase to meet the market standard as well. For every action, there is a reaction.

See, when I read that a public employee is given a pension equal to what a person making 50% more in the private sector would receive, I think "Isn't that the point?"

JuskAskMe....Where is the money that is needed to fund the pension programs going to come from? This magical pool of money does not exist........

This is the wrong time to change the WRS retirement system. There will soon be "round two" of the job loss saga - this time it will be the state and city workers nation wide that get hit the hardest. The more heavily funded we keep their pension plan, the less severe their pain will be.

Stubby......What do you consider sub-standard pay? I don't think it's a matter of people being mean spirited and vindictive--it's simply a matter of facing reality. There is NO MONEY left to support these benefit packages. It's not like that 6% is being funneled to the Caymans for a little slush fund--it simply doesn't exist. My guess is that if the state offered jobs with the "substandard" wages that you speak of along with the reduced benefit package, they would have a line around the block of people waiting to apply.....Not to take away from anything you do, but these are extremely hard times that we live in......

greenst – Most people would love to see everyone across the board get automatic pay raises, low cost health care, pensions, 30 days vacation, etc. Unfortunately this is not going to work in a Global Economy where the competitive advantage goes to China and India because workers there receive 10% of what the average American earns for doing the same job. We've all become a part of the problem when we buy from Wal-Mart, Costco, Sams, Home Depot and every other discount big box retailer. American made is a thing of the past and really no hope of changing that in our lifetime.

The other major problem is the public sector seems to have an unlimited appetite for growth because of the lack of backbone by politicians. Everyone wants his share of the pork and we all applaud him when he brings home the bacon until April 15 then we all whine and complain about taxes. You cannot have it both ways. If you want to live in a society that has unlimited government control to set wages, benefits, etc then you'll need to get on a plane and move to Europe but not to worry you'll have 55% tax brackets waiting for you as low income earner.

I asked the question earlier and will do it again to make the point. How many of the public sector employees are going to drive to work once they’ve found out the well is dry and no more paychecks because the government is bankrupt. The answer is no one is going to go to work. I wouldn’t do it for my private sector job. The answer is to reduce spending to a level that can be sustained by each city, state and the feds. Increasing taxes is not going to solve the problem because politicians never return the money and still find ways to spend more. The cycle of madness has to end before it’s too late.

This story represents one of the many things wrong with our country. Maybe people should stop thinking other people should not receive something because they don't. They should be asking themselves why doesn't my employer think I am worth it also. What happened to the days when we tried to pull everyone up? Now all we do is cut everyone down. We need to stop this if I don't get it you shouldn't either. We need to start saying if you get it I want it too. For the people that think state employees have it to good, why did you choose to not work for the state if its so great?

Now it costs too much. When it's tough for the private sector, cut public pensions. Yeah, be more successful like them! Geez...

It's going to get worse, so hang on!

I will repeat what many have said. Public employees - from Police Officers to Firefighters, to teachers clerical and custodial workers (the people who really make things work) form the backbone of those covered by this system. For years they have made sub-standard wages, but have had good benefits. This was an acceptable trade-off for them. Now we have already asked them to take a pay cut - and they have. We have reduced insurance benefits and increased copays. Now you want to take another 6% away? That is mean-spirited and vindictive.

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I tell you what. Instead of cutting their pay so you can still receive all the services they provide, tell me what street you live on and we'll stop garbage pickup and plowing to save a few dollars. Greedy sots. You want it all but you don't want to pay for it.

Applicants are not the problem. Getting a qualified applicants is. We had an position open. A lot of people applied, only two were qualified. The state need to start testing more. When I started you had to test for the position you wanted. Then you went on a list by how well you scored. Best score got the first interview. Due to the lack of people taking tests and high turnover in other positions, the state started taking people off the street.

Mr Lightbourn,
I work at UW Madison. Guess which following reason convinced me to take this job.
1. 8 days over 2 years of unpayed furlough.
2. Wages well below the private sector.
3. Great pension fund and healthcare.
Don't mess with the pension, it's the way to recruit and retain the best people to educate your children.

I recently helped out a applicant screen review. 35 applicants for one position.

Applicants. Not jobs posted. Every large organization has open jobs, the question is how many applicants per job?

Maybe Mr. Lightbourn should've mentioned that all state employees are currently in the middle of a 2 year furlough program consisting of a roughly 4% pay cut, while employee insurance premiums have gone up every year over the past 5 years. We all still come to work every day and do our jobs like we're expected to do them. This op-ed is so hypocritical and disingenuous. Mr. Lightbourn is kicking his former co-workers (to him, peons) in the nuts, plain and simple.

Lightbourn cashes his own public pension check every month as do at least two other members of the WPRI board. They are a prime example of the "I got mine" school of political thought.

www.ohr.wisc.edu/COB/CurrentUWEmployment...
These are never full, most agencies have a such a list.

As poorly paid as public employees say they are, there must be a dearth of applications for those positions, between the low pay and hard work.

I bet they get almost no applicants for each state job. Anybody have the statistics?

I've never met a person who likes to pay taxes. I've never met a person who likes losing benefits or has to take a pay cut. The simple fact is all government budgets....local, state, federal are like a runaway freight train headed for disaster. The time is now for every elected official to make serious cuts in spending, entitlements and the public workforce. The days of passing the buck to the next election term or next generation are over thanks to GW Bush and now Obama. Ask yourself this question. What will you do when the Federal Government is bankrupt and the flow of money stops to the States. Do you honestly think public employees are just going to go to work knowing they'll not be receiving any pay checks. What happens when they all stay home. No police, no fire department, no schools, no air traffic control and on and on. We all are living on borrowed money from the Chinese, Japanese and other foreign nations. Why do you think Gold has risen to the levels it has in recent years. Paper money is just that paper backed by the federal government who borrows money to print that paper. Wake up people and make plans for the day your money is worthless.

That's why people like myself in private industry will retire out of state to avoid paying into this slush fund in retirement.

justaskme, you are kidding right? No way.

Yes I am. I also pay more in federal taxes every year than I receive in compensation.

For the record, realist, I never said I was against a public employee pension, but you could have read for yourself to find that if you wanted too.

I did say, as I always do, to those that say paying more in taxes would not bother them, why wait start now and lead by example...to date I have never met one of these people that would.

RetiredAirForce
If you really are retired from the Air force you should be all for public employees since your pension package is also paid by the general public.

"The average taxpayer will gladly pay more taxes to ensure that public pensions are funded properly."
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I am still waiting for one person to step forward and start paying more NOW, who thinks that others should pay more.

As a household with 2 of us participating in WRS, I have to make a important point. Compare most public positions to those in the private sector. Except for most laborer positions, you can easily factor salaries being much higher in the private sector. Why do we take lower paying public sector positions? Because that is our interest, or our education, or for the somewhat job security. BTW, we have taken a 3 year pay freeze and modest or minimal pay increases in the times when the economy is down, and we don't make it up when the economy is good like those in the private sector. I think this article is a cheap shot. BTW, public employees don't get bonuses, we don't get "profit sharing", we don't get stock options, and we don't get golden parachutes or severance packages when we loose our job.

WRS benefits are reasonable. The average taxpayer will gladly pay more taxes to ensure that public pensions are funded properly.

George you are so wrong on this one. By the employer picking up the 5% that the employee is to pay is saving the state money. I have talked to people at ETF (employee trust fund. The people that run the pension system.) The state has done this to offset pay increases and save the state money. This is done by the savings on taxes the state would have to pay on U.I., Medicare, and S.S. on higher employee wages.

The pension is good only because it is invested smartly and out of the legislators control.

Thinking like yours is why this state is going to crap. 2010-11 state budget is 31.145 Billion. Yet, the only way you can think to fix it is to go after the workers. What type of people do you think will work for us, the people of the state if we don't give the some type of compensation? After 12yr. I know people in the private sector that start at more then I do. But I choose to take less money for the benefits.

You take them away and who would want to work for the state?

What this Op-Ed doesn't disclose is WPRI is a conservative think-tank. Anybody who works in Wisconsin pays taxes. So, us "public employees" are in fact contributing to the funding ouf our retirement plan. Also, not mentioned in this Op-Ed is that most teachers in WI are part of this retirement system, as well as their co-workers in the offices and janitorial staff. It's pretty disingenious for Mr. Lightbourn to write as though the public employee retirement fund is paid for only by the private sector workers.
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It's very convenient for Mr. Lightbourn to berate his former fellow co-workers now that he's no longer a State of Wisconsin employee.

Touchofreality is correct! No one gave public employees big raises when everything was going well. The tradeoff were the benefits. Now that the economy went south, the public wants to stick it to them out of jealousy and anger instead of focusing that anger at the people who really deserve it. FACT: 50 years ago the average CEO made 30x the average worker, today it is 300x. We need to direct our anger at the people who deserve it.

Scott Mccalum AKA Tommy Thompson (also this ninrod Lightborn) left us a deficit we cannot recover from. 4.4Billion! How do you expect the next administration to run effictivly.
Also should be know that Thompson TOOK 100 million from the pension while in office and loaned it to croonies. All was lost, pension board sued and won, taxpayers were ordered to pay back 500 million.
Now Tommy wants to run for Congress. We cannot afford him!

Lightborn is a hypocrite:

FORMER AGENCY HEAD RESCINDS PAY RAISE LIGHTBOURN SAYS APPROVING OWN PAY WAS MISTAKE
MADISON, Wis. -- Former Administration Secretary George Lightbourn's $6,500-a-year raise for his new state job was rescinded Thursday after he admitted it was a mistake to approve his own pay raise before leaving his Cabinet post. In one of his last acts as a member of former Republican Gov. Scott McCallum's Cabinet, Lightbourn approved a pay increase for a job he knew he would be able to fill after leaving his position as Secretary of the Department of Administration... (Saint Paul Pioneer Press - May 9, 2003 - B1 Local)

People, simply taking a swing at the non-descript "public employee" is a cop out. Compensation is not just wages, but also includes health coverage, time-off, vacation, and other benefits like retirement accounts. Different entities do it different ways. I am a "public employee" and I pay taxes on what I earn. I also know that one of the reasons I accepted a job in the public sector was that the benefits balanced out the lower hourly pay rate. I'd be happy to pay more into my retirement account, but you better expect to raise my hourly to do so. As it is now, I haven't had a pay raise since 2006, and my current pay is pretty much set until at least July 1, 2011. I have actually had a pay cut recently, with the furloughs and having to pay more for my health insurance coverage. I already know that the next budget cycle for the state is not looking so good, so I expect I'll continue with no pay increase, most likely with continue to pay more for health coverage, and wouldn't be surprised if the pay is cut again with more furloughs.

That is why I expect more contributions from my employer into my retirement account.

bobb - How exactly did you lose your 401k when the company you were working for was sold? The money you put in is your money and doesn't matter what the company does. Are you talking about a match? Were you 100% vested?

Private Employers could fund pensions if this were not so common;
A new report says Wisconsin contributors gave more than $1.5 million to shadowy special interest groups last year.
Choose your employer carefuly.

It's been bargained out. Public employees took smaller pay raises in the past to offset Cities, Counties and State funding their retirement 100%. You can't change it, for those already in the system.

Private employers stuck it to their employees bigtime over the past 20 years, and that's an excuse for us to stick it to the public employees now?
If the private employees were making what they're worth, then they'd be paying enough taxes to support the public employees.

GEORGE LIGHTBOURN you are a traiter and a disgrace to public employees from across the state. Life is not fair. If people want public jobs/pensions they can apply for the jobs. Don't mess with my pension!!

Interesting how when the economy was going strong and private sector employees were easily earning more than their public sector counterparts, no one was going to the public sector workers and offering them a little extra. Then the economy busts and those in the private sector turn to the public sector expecting them to give up what they have earned because "It just isn't fair."

Please, the cry from many public employees is they already make less than they should...you expect them to now pay more to secure their pensions?